Question

Strange Behavior with NTFS Permissions Inheritance

Asked by: juckyt

Experts:

All of my client files are hosted on a single File Server located in-house.
The Hardware is new and very efficient, HP DL380 G5 server with loads of RAM, HDD space, processing power, etc. It is a member server of my domain and runs Server 2003 R2 SP2. I currently have both Macintosh and Windows clients touching the same directory hierarchy where all my client files reside.

I've setup the directory permissions where a folder and its nested files inherits NTFS permissions from its parent directory. The default permissions on the root directory is set as: Domain Admins=FullControl, SYSTEM=FullControl, Domain Users=Modify. This works fine for the most part. However, at least once or twice a week, I get a call from a Macintosh user complaining that a directory/file they worked on is locked out to other users (and sometimes vice versa). So I go check it out and find that the inheritabnce has been superceded by the user's own permissions, therefore setting a new inhertince structure starting at the level where the anomoly happened.

Here's a good example:
Lisa is a Macintosh user - she's working today in Clients/VISA/Creative/Rev1 directrory where
there is a file within Rev 1 called cardshot.vh.psd. She closes out Photoshop and sends Jim, a windows user, an email telling him this project is ready for proofing. Jim goes on the server, drilling down to ~/Creative but is locked-out of the ~Rev 1 directory for some reason. So I have Sally, another Mac user have a look, and sure enough, the ~Rev 1 directory has a red STOP-SIGN on it via the Macintosh Finder window. When I check the NTFS permissions on ~Rev 1, I see that the expected permissions inheritance was blown away and replaced with: Domain Admins=Modify, Everyone=<nothing>, Lisa=FullControl, SYSTEM=Modify.

It's the weirdest thing and seems to happen only with a handful of Macintosh users/computers (three, actually). Right now, I "fix" the problem ad-hoc as it happens by repossessing ownership of the problem file/folder and reinheriting the permissions from the proper parent structure. But this is a reactive measure. My creatives want better, more secure file permission stability and I don't blame them.

So here's what I I'd like to see from you Experts:
1)  Any insight into diagnosing any problems directly causing this behavior (from a Windows permission or Appletalk  perspective)
2)  Any scripts for automating resetting the proper perm-inheritance structure on a regular basis
3)  your suggestions based on past experience will help...


- juckyt -

This Question has been solved and asker verified All Experts Exchange premium technology solutions are available to subscription members.

Subscribe now for full access to Experts Exchange and get

Instant Access to this Solution

  • Plus...
  • 30 Day FREE access, no risk, no obligation
  • Collaborate with the world's top tech experts
  • Unlimited access to our exclusive solution database
  • Never be left without tech help again

Subscribe Now

Asked On
2007-09-21 at 12:18:38ID22845087
Tags

ntfs

,

permissions

,

2003

,

inheritance

Topics

Appletalk

,

Computer Servers

Participating Experts
4
Points
500
Comments
10

Trusted by hundreds of thousands everyday for fast, accurate and reliable tech support.

  • "The time we save is the biggest benefit of Experts Exchange to Warner Bros. What could take multiple guys 2 hours or more each to find is accessed in around 15 minutes on Experts Exchange." Mike Kapnisakis, Warner Bros.
  • "Our team likes having a resource that is more secure than just using Google and most experts using this service really know their stuff. It's nice to look here first versus using Google." Dayna Sellner, Lockheed Martin
  • "Anytime that I've been stumped with a problem, 9 out of 10 times Experts Exchange has either the accepted solution or an open discussion of the potential solution to the problem." Kenny Red, eBay Inc.

See what Experts Exchange can do for you.

Got a question?

We've got the answer.

Experts Exchange has been collecting answers to technology questions since 1996…3 million and counting! If you have a question, chances are we already have your answer.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Need individual assistance?

Our experts are ready to help.

If you can't find the exact answer you're looking for, ask our exclusive community of 50,000 experts. You’ll get a personalized answer from a trusted professional.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Want to learn from the best?

Read articles from industry experts.

Thousands of free tech tips, tricks, how-to’s and tutorials are available in our peer reviewed articles section. See for yourself how smart our experts are, no login required.

Screenshot of an Article

Working on a long term project?

Store your work and research.

Save solutions to your questions, answers you’ve discovered through searching plus helpful articles in your personal knowledgebase for easy future access.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Access the answers to your technology questions today.

Subscribe Now

30-day free trial. Register in 60 seconds.

What Makes Experts Exchange Unique?

Members of the expert community talk about why the experience at Experts Exchange is different than what you will find anywhere else.

Trusted by the world's most respected brands.

image of each brand's logo

Faithfully serving IT professionals since 1996.

Experts Exchange Logo

Try it out and discover for yourself.

Subscribe Now

30-day free trial. Register in 60 seconds.

Related Solutions

  1. Precise perspective or keystone transformation of image
    I am printing images to a press that, due to the imaging technology limitations creates a slight keystone effect. I need to counteract that by introducing the opposite keystone to my source image. The challenge is that is am dealing with fractional degrees...so dragging th...

Free Tech Articles

  1. WARNING: 5 Reasons why you should NEVER fix a computer for free.
    It is in our nature to love the puzzle. We are obsessed. The lot of us. We love puzzles. We love the challenge. We thrive on finding the answer. We hate disarray. It bothers us deep in our soul. W...
  2. SCCM OSD Basic troubleshooting
    SCCM 2007 OSD is a fantastic way to deploy operating systems, however, like most things SCCM issues can sometimes be difficult to resolve due to the sheer volume of logs to sift through and the dispe...
  3. Migrate Small Business Server 2003 to Exchange 2010 and Windows 2008 R2
    This guide is intended to provide step by step instructions on how to migrate from Small Business Server 2003 to Windows 2008 R2 with Exchange 2010. For this migration to work you will need the fo...
  4. Create a Win7 Gadget
    This article shows you how to create a simple "Gadget" -- a sort of mini-application supported by Windows 7 and Vista. Gadgets can be dropped anywhere on the desktop to provide instant information, ...
  5. Outlook continually prompting for username and password
    There have been a lot of questions recently regarding Outlook prompting for a username and password whilst using Exchange 2007. There are a few reasons why this would happen and I will try to cover t...
  6. Backup Exchange 2010 Information Store using Windows Backup
    There seems to be quite a lot of confusion around the ability to backup Exchange 2010 using the built in Windows Backup feature. This stems from the omission of this feature prior to Exchange 2007 s...

Cloud Class Webinars

  1. Avoiding Bugs in Microsoft Access
    Alison Balter takes and in-depth look at avoiding bugs in Access. In this webinar you will learn about using the immediate window to debug your applications, invoking the debugger, using breakpoints to troubleshoot, stepping through code, setting the next statement to execute, ...
  2. Top 10 Best New Features in Visio 2010
    Scott Helmers gives live demonstrations of the top 10 new features in Visio 2010. This webinar will teach you how to create compelling diagrams by adding shapes to the page with a single click, linking the shapes in a diagram to data in Excel (or SQL Server, or SharePoint), ...
  3. IT Consultant Business Secrets Revealed
    Michael Munger, Experts Exchange tech pro and IT consultant, pulls back the curtain on his very successful businesses and answers question on every IT consultant and business owner should know about. He shares secrets on what he did to solve the 5 most common problems in IT, ...
  4. Disaster Recovery and Business Continuity
    Quest CTO, Mike Billon, gives an overview of the steps involved in building a dunamic disaster recovery plan. Through case studies and an examination of software/hardware tooles for monitoring and testing, you'll gain a better understandin of where you are, where you want ...
  5. Organize Your Visio Diagrams with Containers and Lists
    Scott Helmers uses cross functional flowcharts, wireframe diagrams, data graphic legends and seating charts to teach you: how to ustilize all three new structured diagram components in Visio 2010, the best practices for organizeing shapes in previous version of Visio, how to organize ...
  6. How to Us Objects, Properties, Events and Methods in Microsoft Access
    Alison Dalter gives an in-depbth look at objects, properties, events and methods in Microsoft Access. In this webinar you will learn about using the object browser, referring to objects, working with properties and methods, working with object variables, understanding the ...

Join the Community

Give a Little. Get a Lot.

Join the community of experts here and help other tech pros by answering question in your area of expertise. You can earn FREE access to all Experts Exchange's premium features and resources.

Join the Community

Answers

 

by: lnkevinPosted on 2007-09-21 at 12:43:18ID: 19938571

1. Set security audit for the folder. You can set it on GPO or local policy, here is the guide for local policy:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa744735.aspx

2. To stop your user from changing the folder permision, set domain user permission to read, write only. You set domain user to Modify so you allow them to modify the permission.

K

 

by: JjcampNRPosted on 2007-09-21 at 20:05:10ID: 19940412

You can't set domain users to only read/write, if you do they won't be able to make changes to existing files, delete files or delete folders.  If you want to script file permission changes, you can use XCALS via a batch file setup as a scheduled job to run nightly (or as often as you feel necessary).  You can get XCALS from Microsoft here:  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/825751

Alternatively, if all subfolders under each of your main folders is inheriting permissions, you can always push permissions out manually by:
Going to the highest level directory where all subfoldres are inheriting the exact same permissions from this folder - right click and go to "sharing and security" and then "security" or properties, then security.  In here, click advanced and you can then check "Replace permission entries on all child objects....." and hit apply.  This will pop up a warning box, telling you it's going to replace all explicitely defined permissions on the child object, which is exactly what you want, so click OK.  Windows will then make sure all subfolders of your main folder are inheriting permissions from that main folder and have the same permissions.

If you get any errors warning you that "access is denied" when setting the permissions, click continue on each and let it finish.  If you had access errors, go over to the owners tab, and select the local admin or domain admin account, check the box saying "replace owner on subcontainers and objects" then click apply.  Once you set ownership to the admin account on all objects repeat the step above on pushing out permissions and you'll be all set.

If you need help scripting the XCACLS vbs to run or configuring the script to work correctly, let me know.  I use this all the time to fix permissions problems on file servers and as long as you test your script on a test directory and ensure it works properly it's a fantastic tool.

If you want to see an example, here's a small test I use to verify my ACLs are being set right when I was trying to add a local user account named "LocalAccount" on a computer named "Computer1"  to permissions on an existing folder.  The following was put in a batch file, which can then be scheduled to run from the Windows scheduled tasks tool:
cscript.exe xcacls.vbs C:\Test_Folder\ /E /G Computer1\LocalAccount:R

Good luck, let me know if you have any other trouble or if this doesn't work for you.  As for why the permissions are getting broken in the first place - have you done the configuration on the Macs to bind them to your AD domain?  If not, this would be a good idea and may fix your problem.  On the Macs, go to Applications, Utilities, then Directory Access.  Click on the Services button, then click on Active Directory, make sure it's checked, then click Configure.  Put in your domain info, and you'll need to use a domain admin account to join it to the domain.  This will also create a computer account in AD for the Mac which gives you some added control over the Mac from an admin perspective.  Some group policy settings will apply to a Mac (even more once 10.5 comes out), you can use AD user accounts to log on to the Mac, map home drive automatically to the user/documents to the user accounts, etc.

For a good visual on binding a Mac to AD, check the following - just make sure you use your own info when necessary and not the info from the pictures (like domain, etc)
https://websvc06.cern.ch/winservices/Help/?kbid=401040

Let me know if you need other options.

 

by: lnkevinPosted on 2007-09-22 at 04:54:59ID: 19941271

...if you do they won't be able to make changes to existing files .....

Sure, they will, they just can't delete the file or folder, but they can create new folder. If you want to delegate more option for user or group, you can just click on advance button in security tab and go to "effective permission tab". There, you can set particular user or group to be able to delete...
You don't want to allow your user to modify permission to avoid the mess.

K

 

by: JjcampNRPosted on 2007-09-22 at 20:08:11ID: 19943337

Yup, my fault on that one, mis-spoke a bit.

 

by: lnkevinPosted on 2007-10-19 at 16:38:11ID: 20113147

Accept: lnkevin

 

by: Computer101Posted on 2007-10-21 at 20:05:44ID: 20120552

Forced accept.

Computer101
EE Admin

 

by: rbrownnh999Posted on 2007-10-26 at 13:43:59ID: 20158886

I am having the same issue. I noticed this a few days ago. I do not have MACs I have all Windows XP SP2 workstations and all Windows 2003 R2 servers. The hardware is an HP DL380 G4.

The file server is the only place I notice this happening and that server is running the 64bit version of W2K3R2. I have had issues with security corruption on this machine where all the permissions were missing.

Now I see everytime someone creates of copies/moves a folder they become the owner of that folder and their domain account is listed in the security area with special permissions.

You have to assign permissions other then special in order to remove the users account from the security list, if not you receive a message stating you can remove them because they are inherited, which is not true.

I'm starting to wonder if it is a SCSI disk controller issue and not a Windows issue.

junkyt, Are you running the 64 bit version of W2K3R2?

I do not see this happening to the other servers but they are not file servers and folder and files are not created often.

If anyone has a resolution I would be very interested since this could lead to data lose.

Thanks

 

by: rbrownnh999Posted on 2007-10-26 at 13:46:57ID: 20158904

Sorry it should read.


You have to assign permissions other then special in order to remove the users account from the security list, if not you receive a message stating you CAN NOT remove them because they are inherited, which is not true.

 

by: JjcampNRPosted on 2007-10-27 at 18:15:58ID: 20163369

Please open a new question for this.

20120131-EE-VQP-002

3 Ways to Join

30-Day Free Trial

The Experts

98% positive feedback on 31,087 answers since March 2000. angeliii is a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional for his work with MS SQL Server & Develoment.

He has also proven his knowledge of Visual Basic Programming, PHP Scripting and Oracle Databases.

The Experts

97% positive feedback on 10,752 answers since July 2000. lrmoore has more than 18 years experience in the networking industry.

The six-time Mircosoft MVPs specialties include firewalls, virtual private networking, and network management.

Testimonials

"...and excellent source for support... Kind of like having your very own IT dept." Electriciansnet

Testimonials

"I was apprehensive at signing up at first. However... it has already made my life as an IT administrator much easier." JaCrews

Testimonials

"WOW! You guys have great, active, and knowledgeable people on here." moore50

Business Clients

Business Clients

In the Press

"If you’ve got a question... Experts Exchange can supply an answer.”

In the Press

"...an invaluable aid for both IT professionals and those who require tech support."

In the Press

"where IT professionals provide quick answers on just about any topic"

Business Account Plans

Loading Advertisement...