16:9 DVD created in iDVD plays cropped on DVD player

Playing a DVD on a PC differs from playing it on the TV via a DVD player.
it isn't cropped by the TV<< no but have you checked the DVD player settings?
Are you selecitng a widescreen template for the DVD?
iDVD: DV widescreen 16:9 workflow from Final Cut Pro
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=305337
http://www.apple.com/support/idvd/
unless your DVD player has a setting you can change not much you can do with it.
How you burnt the DVD what settings you used is the key here.

Export your video from FCP like you normally would for going to iDVD. Drag and drop it on the Anamorphicizer
http://homepage.mac.com/sith33/FileSharing34.html

If you want to  check the video scale used
 take a vob out of the dvd  (on your computer ) and drop it onto Gspot and check the video scale used
http://www.headbands.com/gspot/

Hi,

Thanks! I created the video in Avid Xpress Pro HD - never used FCP but I assume the process would be similar.

The part where you lost me is "Drag and drop it on the Anamorphicizer". Namely, what does "it" refer to? A video file? The DVD image? The VIDEO_TS folder or the files in it?

It sounds like Anamorphicizer could be the solution but I am not sure what phase does it fit in the workflow. Ideally, it would do its thing on the completed VIDEO_TS folder contents otherwise (if I have to run the original video file through it before I drop it into iDVD) I will have to remaster the DVD (4 hours...)

Robert

Also, if it's the video file that's in an incorrect format then how come even the MENUS (rendered by IDVD) show cropped?

My logic tells me that it must be some kind of a marker that tells the DVD player (incorrectly) that it is a 4:3 format DVD and that's why it's cropping it. I might be wrong but this would make sense. Except I don't have a clue what to do about it.

Robert

I checked the video files with GSpot as you recommended and it tells me the following (I don't know what the last 3 of these mean so I am just posting the data here hoping it will provide some clues to what's wrong with the DVD):

pic (w x) 720 x 576
seq ext 720 x 576
sar 1.250 (5:4)
par 1.422 (~10:7)
dar 1.778 (16:9)

Hi Robert sorry i dont have all the answers for you but it must be a setting in  imovie looking at guide included below it's similar to Nero Vision.
Are you capturing from a camera? in high definition? With imovie?
From the manual:
Step Two: Import Video Into iMovie HD
iMovie HD can transfer, or
import,
video in many video formats and from many different
types of camcorders, including DV camcorders (including those that support
widescreen)<<< and high definition (HDV) camcorders.
In most cases, iMovie HD can
automatically recognize and import the video youre using, so you dont have to pay
attention to video formats.<< yes but maybe you have to check the capture setting?
Did you give Gspot a try?

Which version of imovie are using?
http://www.duke.edu/froshlife/resources/iMovie_HD_6_Getting_Started.pdf

Is it only happening to this clip or all clips?

Never having used Avid Xpress Pro HD or imovie I am a Nero 7 user for my DVD authoring, I use Super to convert my >MOD .MOV clips to mpeg2 first then using Nero Vision create DVD video  add in my mpeg2 clips I wish to use create the chapters for each clip and then add menues main title menues etc and write it to hard drive first. Sends it to the hard drive in the Video_ts folder complete.
Burn later using Nero burning rom.


If you have the original project saved use copies of course
 you could consider converting the QT video to mpeg first using Super  it converts QT (.MOV)  to mpeg1/ or 2 pretty fast too.
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/SUPER
http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2006/07/31/dont-buy-any-video-converter-before-trying-this-freebie

Then use your imovie to add menues and chapters
Maybe the High Definition  capture of quicktime is sticking it into widescreen or saving it as an exported video for web?

Hope it helps you
Merete
oh yeas about the  "Anamorphicizer".
http://linkoramablog.blogspot.com/2007/03/anamorphicizer.html

righto :)
you tried Gspot
What i'd like to see is the  pics/frames you used.
here is a snapshot of a vob on gspot from a DVD I made, I am in Australia though.  So use Pal.

interesting difference, is this HD? Or a standard DVD?
Well I see your picture width differs all your settings differ, I think it's imovie using the video you gave it to re-author it

pic (w x) 720 x 576 ---mine 352x288
seq ext 720 x 576 -- none
sar 1.250 (5:4) ----- 1.222
par 1.422 (~10:7)    
dar 1.778 (16:9)
guide to using Gspot.
http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/PapaJohn/68/Gspot.aspx

Thanks for all the input :-)

I am in Europe, so I also use PAL.

The differences I can think of: My original source material was edited in HD and exported from Avid at 1280x720 resolution, uncompressed Apple PNG codec (42GB file :-) ). This was downsampled by iDVD to 720 horizontal and (hell knows why) 576 vertical resolution.

Now, before I go all over the place messing around with the original video file, I think the crux of the matter is somewhere else. Here's why. The problem is with the ENTIRE DVD. Not only the video file it contains, but even the intro, the menus, etc. and THESE ARE ALL GENERATED BY IDVD.

Additionally, the DVD plays perfectly on ANY computer (Mac or PC) so what doesn't make sense is what a DVD player "sees" this same material as being 4:3 and crops it. The materials is all there, it's all perfect, but something tells the DVD player to screw it up.

What I think I should find is WHAT that 'something" is and how to change it.

One thing that is suspicious is that 720:576 width/height ratio, which comes to 1.25, closer to 4:3 than 16:9. Maybe there is a marker in the video that tells the computer that these are non-square pixels so the computer "sees" it properly as a 16:9 video that the DVD player can't interpret? That still doesn't explain the cropping (if my logic would be 100% here, I would get a squeezed picture I guess), but it feels like searching in the right direction.

Robert

Check the settings on your TV, not the DVD player. There are probably settings on the TV like "cinema", "Full", Regular" etc. Try each one to see if you can get a proper uncropped image.

One thing that is suspicious is that 720:576 width/height ratio, << agree and I think that's the key.
Looks like it's converting mpeg4. Not mpeg1 or mpeg2
I am certain that the image that the TV receives is already a 4:3 image, it isn't cropped by the TV.<< I agree
Looking at your gspot details you supplied
your SAR 1.250 (5:4) << mine> 1.222 (11.9)
your dar 1.778 (16:9)<<mine> 1.091(12.1)
16.9 is mpeg letterbox conversion.
If you multiply the SAR by the PAR you get the DAR (display aspect ratio).
more details here reading SAR and DAR
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/598674
mpeg
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=f6Cuz9Tig-MC&pg=PT234&lpg=PT234&dq=sar+dar+display+aspect+ratio&source=web&ots=67zLjhQnb6&sig=52EzW1_rubSbNrx-n8j7oMwlX1E&hl=en
 
Aspect Ratios and Frame Sizes
http://www.mir.com/DMG/aspect.html

Since your DVD video is set at  720:576 width/height ratio the TV or DVD player has no other choices.
Only work around I can think of is try converting the QT to mpeg1 first using SUPER
of course use copies, mpeg1 has a standard video scale.
When converting my .MOV clips to mpeg I left the video scale as is no changes.
As QT HD mpeg4 it may have imbedded video scale size  imovie detects this and retains the video scale acording so that no loss of quality.
I did not alter the DVD structure it is a default settting in Nero Vision it simply re-authored my mpeg 1 to the conformed size.

Something like this hope it helps you.
Merete

To put this very simply, and in my opinion, using any programs that have DRM, such as WMV - Microsoft,
Real Media/ Real.
 QT files/ imovie like iTunes belong to quick time and therefore sticks with mpeg4 it's own native format mpeg4.
It automatically converts within it's own format.
MPEG2 is owned by the motion Picture  experts group, neither QT or Microsft have any association with mpeg1 and mpeg2.
 
To change this you would have to use a program free of the DRM managers to change the mpeg4 QT format 16.9 to mpeg2 -- 4.3

If it was a 16:9 movie being resized to 4:3 then the image would just look squished on the tv, it wouldn't be "cropped" and actually cutting off the picture.  I think what is happening is you are just experiencing the effects of tv overscan.  Computers don't do that.

Do you still have the original iDVD project?  If you do open it up then go to the view menu and choose "Show TV Safe Area"  this will create a red square.  Everything inside the square is safe and you should see it on a tv.  Everything outside the square could be cut off due to tv overscan.  If it is getting cut off by that red square that is your problem and you just need to redesign your dvd to be more tv safe and try to keep most of the important stuff inside that red square.

Lukeca - so far you got closest to the real problem - I verified that the problem really is that the DVD content generated has a large area that is outside the "TV Safe" area.

BUT -  the problem is that that's how iDVD seems to be. There is no way I could find to change the size (much larger than the the TV Safe area). I could restrict all "useful content" to the TV safe area, which solved the menus, but the program itself (the movie) is still larger than the "TV Safe" area. Unfortunately, when viewing the program (as opposed to the menus) in iDVD, the "Show TV Safe Area" is greyed out, so there is no way to tell what's inside. I tried different resolutions (720x480, 720x576) but to no avail. Is it possible that iDVD is simpy this stupid and I will have to use another DVD authoring program if I want a proper DVD?

At this point, I am thoroughly frustrated by the incompetencce of iDVD. It is supposed to be easy to use, and 16:9 is THE standard today, with some 4:3 still surviving. So not being able to properly handle 16:9 relegates iDVD to a cute toy (nice as long as you are still doing 4:3), it is totally unusable as a DVD authoring tool.

Robert

Well I don't have any experience using anything but iDVD.  I guess for me my video is usually just home videos so even if things are cut off around the edges it really just looks like that's the way it is supposed to be because the people are generally in the middle of the screen.  Changing the resolution of the video won't help anything because the tv will still just overscan it so it's not really a case of 16:9 vs 4:3 I don't think.  The only thing you could do is find some video editing program that would let you put like a black border around the video, then when you watched it on the tv the black border would get cut off leaving the video untouched.

Thanks, but that's not a good solution as more and more people (myself included) have 16:9 LCD TVs. Having a letterboxed video that will be streched on a 16:9 TV is amateurish... There is a real problem to solve here and I am sure there is a real solution, but it seems like so far I haven't found it...

Robert

If you do a fair amount of video editing I highly recomend Nero Vision4
Buy Nero Vision7 full Premium to re-author it to DVD
http://www.dvd-guides.com/content/view/125/59/
Then regardless of any dvd rom changes You have the full package.
You'll love all the special effects it can do.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/CD-DVD-Tools/Data-CD-DVD-Burning/Nero-7-Premium.shtml

Well... I am planning on doing quite some DVD authoring, but Nero is Windows only... I work on Macs.

Robert

Here is a bit more on the how on IDVD works
http://capital2.capital.edu/admin-staff/dalthoff/widescreen.html

rpc800 any progress?
cheers mate

Hello Robert wow
I can understand your move for sure, the right tools do the right job no more messing around.
Thanks for coming back.
Your wellcome  too always happy to help out when I can unfortunately win some lose some.
Please close out your question now.
I would suggest you accept your final comment as the answer that will help others looking for a solution, to do this click on your comment and Accept it.
All the best to you and thanks for using Experts Exchange
Regards Merete