OracleWannabe
asked on
Where to start ....
been learning oracle by myself all the while through otn documentations.
but again i feel i am not learning completely or efficiently enough thus i been browing education.oracle.com
and realise the course fees are too much for me.
any one with experience here care to tell me what to do,
i want to get a OCA + OCP for 8i but then again, - with little knowledge on networks ( fear the Net8 thing ) and just by the otn documentations ( which i can absorb only abit )
can i just take the exams without attending the courses ?
or i should just keep learning and post questions here if i dont know and take the exam hoping i get a pass or so..
pls guild me. i am sooo sooo lost.
but again i feel i am not learning completely or efficiently enough thus i been browing education.oracle.com
and realise the course fees are too much for me.
any one with experience here care to tell me what to do,
i want to get a OCA + OCP for 8i but then again, - with little knowledge on networks ( fear the Net8 thing ) and just by the otn documentations ( which i can absorb only abit )
can i just take the exams without attending the courses ?
or i should just keep learning and post questions here if i dont know and take the exam hoping i get a pass or so..
pls guild me. i am sooo sooo lost.
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You had better get moving. Oracle 8i exams will be discontinued this December.
I suggest you start with a good book, I've found 'The Complete Reference' by Loney and Koch to be very good. Use the online books too as they are great, but a bit heavier than some books available.
You don't really need to know about networks to get a good distance in the Oracle exams. The first few 8i exams don't even really need a network. If you download Oracle database 8i, the installer program gets your database up and working just fine.
I'm not sure what situation you are at now, but if you are starting, I would learn basic SQL (creating a table, adding data, updating data) then add on extra bits like administering the database itself. Oracle isn't hard to learn. Just take one step at a time, and use resources at your level.
Hope this helps.
Derek
I suggest you start with a good book, I've found 'The Complete Reference' by Loney and Koch to be very good. Use the online books too as they are great, but a bit heavier than some books available.
You don't really need to know about networks to get a good distance in the Oracle exams. The first few 8i exams don't even really need a network. If you download Oracle database 8i, the installer program gets your database up and working just fine.
I'm not sure what situation you are at now, but if you are starting, I would learn basic SQL (creating a table, adding data, updating data) then add on extra bits like administering the database itself. Oracle isn't hard to learn. Just take one step at a time, and use resources at your level.
Hope this helps.
Derek
ASKER
how about OS,
i dont know why if i am log in as administrator in windows,
i can login as sysdba as any user?
i dont understand the link between oracle and windows in here.
'The Complete Reference' is a reference book ? ( for referencing on columns, data dictionary , error message , syntax )
or it teaches theory too ?
i dont know why if i am log in as administrator in windows,
i can login as sysdba as any user?
i dont understand the link between oracle and windows in here.
'The Complete Reference' is a reference book ? ( for referencing on columns, data dictionary , error message , syntax )
or it teaches theory too ?
ASKER
And will reading the OTN documentations + doing 8i exams paper help well enuff ?
because in certain 8i documentations , i simply has no idea on what they are talking about, some network things and other things...
concept wise i am quite ok.
because in certain 8i documentations , i simply has no idea on what they are talking about, some network things and other things...
concept wise i am quite ok.
ASKER
do i also need to know well in those V$ data dictionaries ?
arghh confuse!
arghh confuse!
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ASKER
i am not subsidised by any company.
i am just a 19m self study student.
so i probably cant attend any classes, and one of my previous lecturer told me, the class are too short for you to learn anything good enough from it.
so should i stick by the otn documentations ?
Note: ALL Oracle exams are taken directly from their course material. This is something to think about since you mentioned wanting the certification.
are the documentations the same as the course material as what is mentioned by kumaran100 ?
is there anyway where i can know what are the exams topics covered ?
and are course materials provided if i only signup to take the exams ?
actually the reason i wanted to take 8i is, i want to know more about how it works originally, because from what i sees, as the version get newer, more functions get integrated and automated, then its like .. i am not learning more.. :/ just my thoughts. no offence though.
thanks
i am just a 19m self study student.
so i probably cant attend any classes, and one of my previous lecturer told me, the class are too short for you to learn anything good enough from it.
so should i stick by the otn documentations ?
Note: ALL Oracle exams are taken directly from their course material. This is something to think about since you mentioned wanting the certification.
are the documentations the same as the course material as what is mentioned by kumaran100 ?
is there anyway where i can know what are the exams topics covered ?
and are course materials provided if i only signup to take the exams ?
actually the reason i wanted to take 8i is, i want to know more about how it works originally, because from what i sees, as the version get newer, more functions get integrated and automated, then its like .. i am not learning more.. :/ just my thoughts. no offence though.
thanks
ASKER
oh by the way
Any user in the ORA_DBA group can connect as sysdba
what is the ORA_DBA group, where can i see it ? any more info about it ?
thanks
Any user in the ORA_DBA group can connect as sysdba
what is the ORA_DBA group, where can i see it ? any more info about it ?
thanks
All the certification topics are talked about on oracle web site:
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/index.html?dba9i_track.html
> what is the ORA_DBA group, where can i see it ? any more info about it ?
Go into control panel and select users and groups. ORA_DBA is a windows group that gets created at install time.
No the docs on OTN are not the same as the course books.
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/index.html?dba9i_track.html
> what is the ORA_DBA group, where can i see it ? any more info about it ?
Go into control panel and select users and groups. ORA_DBA is a windows group that gets created at install time.
No the docs on OTN are not the same as the course books.
ASKER
ok so the material are different !
i been browsing the course topics on database fundamentals
and came to read alot on networks
Networking Overview
Explaining solutions included with Oracle9i for managing complex networks
Describing Oracle networking add-on solutions
Basic Oracle Net Architecture
Explaining the key components of Oracle Net architecture
Explaining Oracle Net Services role in client-server connections
Describing how web client connections are established through Oracle networking products
etc.. and many more.
if i was to learn alone, i only have one PC and no network, i bet i cant put this into real life practise,
do you guys have any chance to try it practically when you attended the classes ?
if so, can i manage all this topics with just a PC ? as i am seriously thinking to learn everything by myself, cause i simply cant afford the courses ( over 10k i counted ).
lastly this is what i plan to do,
tml i will call oracle helpdesk and ask them if possible to customize a plan or some path for me to walk.
but would i get laugh at ? cause i am only a home user with no coporate backing or anything :( hope i am over sensitive.
and lastly, slightwv, do you tink OTN documentations alone + revision books and exams is enough for me to pass my exams as i dont think i can get the course materials if i just signed up for the exams only.
Thanks alot :)
i been browsing the course topics on database fundamentals
and came to read alot on networks
Networking Overview
Explaining solutions included with Oracle9i for managing complex networks
Describing Oracle networking add-on solutions
Basic Oracle Net Architecture
Explaining the key components of Oracle Net architecture
Explaining Oracle Net Services role in client-server connections
Describing how web client connections are established through Oracle networking products
etc.. and many more.
if i was to learn alone, i only have one PC and no network, i bet i cant put this into real life practise,
do you guys have any chance to try it practically when you attended the classes ?
if so, can i manage all this topics with just a PC ? as i am seriously thinking to learn everything by myself, cause i simply cant afford the courses ( over 10k i counted ).
lastly this is what i plan to do,
tml i will call oracle helpdesk and ask them if possible to customize a plan or some path for me to walk.
but would i get laugh at ? cause i am only a home user with no coporate backing or anything :( hope i am over sensitive.
and lastly, slightwv, do you tink OTN documentations alone + revision books and exams is enough for me to pass my exams as i dont think i can get the course materials if i just signed up for the exams only.
Thanks alot :)
ASKER
oh and yes
i saw the group.
Members can connect to the Oracle database as a DBA without a password
i am connecting as scott/tiger as sysdba
what does the "without a password" means ?
i saw the group.
Members can connect to the Oracle database as a DBA without a password
i am connecting as scott/tiger as sysdba
what does the "without a password" means ?
As soon as Oracle sees "as sysdba" it ignores userid and password:
You can connect as qwert/asdfg as sysdba.
For the networking question: Oracle by definition is client server. You can imulate most networking scenerios w/o 2 computers.
No, I doubt you will get the course materials w/o paying for the class.
Overall: I suggest :
For overall learning:
A general book (Many of them available).
For exam purposes: exam cram books (many available).
Reference material: Oracle documentation.
You can connect as qwert/asdfg as sysdba.
For the networking question: Oracle by definition is client server. You can imulate most networking scenerios w/o 2 computers.
No, I doubt you will get the course materials w/o paying for the class.
Overall: I suggest :
For overall learning:
A general book (Many of them available).
For exam purposes: exam cram books (many available).
Reference material: Oracle documentation.
ASKER
Ok so what would you suggest for A general book ?
(PL/SQL , SQL - I know them so exclude them )
I am more interested in a general book on Oracle Architecture Concepts - Like Schema Objects( IOT, Cluster, Index, Partition ), SGA, UGA, PGA , SCN , Multiversioning , how transaction affects, db buffer rollback seg, redo log, and OF course NET8 and those network things i need to know ... etc...
any recommendations ?
and oh yea i know sysdba and sysoper are system priviledge. but i been always wondering,
like all other prividges ( system, object) as long as you grant them to the user, they can start using the priviledges.
what i mean is, since sysdba and sysoper privilege is granted to the sys user,
why do i still need to login sys/change_on_install AS sysdba ?
why do we need the AS sysdba ?
and lastly
thanks man u guys are been great help esp you slightwv
(PL/SQL , SQL - I know them so exclude them )
I am more interested in a general book on Oracle Architecture Concepts - Like Schema Objects( IOT, Cluster, Index, Partition ), SGA, UGA, PGA , SCN , Multiversioning , how transaction affects, db buffer rollback seg, redo log, and OF course NET8 and those network things i need to know ... etc...
any recommendations ?
and oh yea i know sysdba and sysoper are system priviledge. but i been always wondering,
like all other prividges ( system, object) as long as you grant them to the user, they can start using the priviledges.
what i mean is, since sysdba and sysoper privilege is granted to the sys user,
why do i still need to login sys/change_on_install AS sysdba ?
why do we need the AS sysdba ?
and lastly
thanks man u guys are been great help esp you slightwv
There are so many books on Oracle out there, it's hard to recomend any. Generally, I don't like books published by Oracle Press. I know others that swear by them.
Sorry I can't be more help on specific books. Typically when I buy one, It's for a specific topic not general. And usually it's for only a specific chapter or two out of the whole book.
If I had to suggest one for all around reading it would be: Expert one-on-one by Tom Kyte. It might be a bit much to absorb for starting out but it is definatly worth getting.
My overall suggestion: Start out by scanning/reading the online docs in the Concepts guide. Then you should have enough background to select several books for further reading.
Sorry I can't be more help on specific books. Typically when I buy one, It's for a specific topic not general. And usually it's for only a specific chapter or two out of the whole book.
If I had to suggest one for all around reading it would be: Expert one-on-one by Tom Kyte. It might be a bit much to absorb for starting out but it is definatly worth getting.
My overall suggestion: Start out by scanning/reading the online docs in the Concepts guide. Then you should have enough background to select several books for further reading.
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ASKER
okie dokie :) lastly can some1 help me on the part on
logging on as sysdba ? the previous last question i asked above.
logging on as sysdba ? the previous last question i asked above.
The command is:
connect / as sysdba
Your user account must have admin privilages.
From the command prompt:
C:\sqlplus /nolog
SQL>connect / as sysdba
connect / as sysdba
Your user account must have admin privilages.
From the command prompt:
C:\sqlplus /nolog
SQL>connect / as sysdba
ASKER
no i dont mean this... i know how to connect in as sysdba.
i mean this
--------------------------
and oh yea i know sysdba and sysoper are system priviledge. but i been always wondering,
like all other prividges ( system, object) as long as you grant them to the user, they can start using the priviledges.
what i mean is, since sysdba and sysoper privilege is already granted to the sys user,
why do i still need to login sys/***** AS sysdba ?
why do we need the AS sysdba ?
--------------------------
i mean this
--------------------------
and oh yea i know sysdba and sysoper are system priviledge. but i been always wondering,
like all other prividges ( system, object) as long as you grant them to the user, they can start using the priviledges.
what i mean is, since sysdba and sysoper privilege is already granted to the sys user,
why do i still need to login sys/***** AS sysdba ?
why do we need the AS sysdba ?
--------------------------
The sys user account is the owner of the database. But the sys user is still just a normal user account. This acocunt is special though because it is allowed to connect to the database as SYSDBA. Only when connecting with this privilage can sys do certain functions such as:
- startup a database
- shutdown a database
- backup a database
- recover a database
- create a database
AS SYSDBA is just how you request you want these special permissions.
You should not usually use the sys account. Only use it for these special tasks.
- startup a database
- shutdown a database
- backup a database
- recover a database
- create a database
AS SYSDBA is just how you request you want these special permissions.
You should not usually use the sys account. Only use it for these special tasks.
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...another thing, get some practice exams too from http://www.selftestsoftware.com
ASKER
derekpapesch
so do you mean if an a/c has an sysdba priviledge granted,
if he want to use that privilege he has to
use the "as sysdba" term right ?
because for other privileges (system) - lets say create any table
you dont have to connect / as create any table ( i know this look amusing )
i just wonder why for sysdba privilege , it isnt "built in" to the a/c that is granted, you got to use that term " as sysdba"
why is it like that ?
so do you mean if an a/c has an sysdba priviledge granted,
if he want to use that privilege he has to
use the "as sysdba" term right ?
because for other privileges (system) - lets say create any table
you dont have to connect / as create any table ( i know this look amusing )
i just wonder why for sysdba privilege , it isnt "built in" to the a/c that is granted, you got to use that term " as sysdba"
why is it like that ?
The ability to stop or restore the database (etc) is considered very powerful. For that reason, it is protected. Connecting AS SYSDBA is more difficult than connecting as a standard user account. Thus, my opinion is that this is a security measure to make it more difficult for the database to be intentionally or accidentally compromised.
ASKER
woo wooo same thoughts as me !!! so happy now i learn a new thing. thanks alot derekpapesch !!!
oh lastly, i remove my os a/c from the ora_dba group,
and i try to connect as
sys/change_on_install as sysdba - it is not accepted.
but sys/oracle as sysdba - it is accepted ?
and if i connect normally without as sysdba
for
sys/change_on_install - it is accepted
sys/oracle - not accepted.
does that means that sys has two password ?
oh lastly, i remove my os a/c from the ora_dba group,
and i try to connect as
sys/change_on_install as sysdba - it is not accepted.
but sys/oracle as sysdba - it is accepted ?
and if i connect normally without as sysdba
for
sys/change_on_install - it is accepted
sys/oracle - not accepted.
does that means that sys has two password ?
Personally I believe this thread has been more than answered. I feel that you've received more than enough guidence to get you started and it is turning into a multiple question and answer thread. Please award points as you see fit and ask specific questions in new threads.
P.S.
Oracle also keeps all sysdba users and passwords in a password file on the file system. Check out the networking guide for the answer to your last question.
P.S.
Oracle also keeps all sysdba users and passwords in a password file on the file system. Check out the networking guide for the answer to your last question.
ASKER
okie sorry
get drifted away :)
get drifted away :)
No problem. It's easy to get a little over excited. I hope you can keep your enthusiasm.
ASKER
now i am cracking my head on how to split between you guys and whose answer to accept.
both u and derekpapesch helps me alot.
no matter who i accept
no hard feelings and dun feel offended k, cos its a hard choice and onlly one choice =-(
both u and derekpapesch helps me alot.
no matter who i accept
no hard feelings and dun feel offended k, cos its a hard choice and onlly one choice =-(
my 2 cents: Personally, I have no problem with an even split with everyone that participated. I don't feel that you received any bad advice.
Yes, spit the points. If you're not familure with that, don't click accept, but look for the 'split points' link. Then allocate points based on how you want to award them. Slight's right about the Q&A, just start a new question. You'll also get new people listening and maybe a faster response.
ASKER
sorry guys been on a trip
here's the points !
here's the points !
ASKER
i got little knowledge on Operating System too and i believe administrating a DB needs some deeper knowledge about os more then those normal end users like me..
so... its the $$ issue and.. knowledge issue to me.. sigh