Question

comparing Xeon X5500 to C2Quad Q9550

Asked by: stevem5000

I need a better computer for our GIS users...
Primary application is ARCInfo...heavy geo usage, large files...500Mb is common...multiple map overlays...
ARCInfo is a 32 bit app that will run under 64 bit but gets no advantage under 64 bit...

Our standard has been Dell T3400 set up thusly...
Q9550   2.83 1333 Mhz   12 MB L2
XP Pro  32Bit
4 GB RAM  800 Mhz
146 GB HD, SAS 15k rpm
About  $2800

I am looking at a Dell T5500 set up thusly...
X5550  2.66 Ghz  1066 Mhz  8M L3
XP Pro 32 bit
4 GB RAM  1066 Mhz
300 Gb SATA 10k RPM
About $3600

The processors are not quite the same speed...but trying to keep costs down...

64 bit is NOT an option...
A brand other than Dell is NOT an option...

So...considering the above info...is the T5500 worth another $800 for any speed increase...

Looking to run ARCInfo as fast as possible...
Is moving to Xeon quad core give me any appreciable advantage over Core 2 Quad...???

There probably isn't a "correct" answer....but opinions do matter...

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Asked On
2009-11-02 at 14:34:24ID24865535
Topics

Computer CPU Processors

,

Personal Computers

,

Computer Hard Drives

Participating Experts
3
Points
500
Comments
11

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Answers

 

by: nobusPosted on 2009-11-03 at 00:25:38ID: 25726919

q9550 has a 4170 score with 12 mb cache :  http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLAWQ
x5550 scores 4687  with 8 mb cache :http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=37106

so not much difference in cpu prestation; the cache may make the difference

 

by: BigSchmuhPosted on 2009-11-03 at 03:46:32ID: 25727950

Although, does ARCinfo is really limited by the CPU ?

What I mean is IF the CPU is at 100%, every faster CPU will be rendered as a visible gain...but otherwise you should spend money at other pieces:

  • More memory are usable with RamDrives software (like RamDisk Plus) - Having a 16GB pc on a 32bits OS offers 12.5GB for a RamDrive disk allowing for a superfast swap file (Keep it 512MB) and a superfast 12GB temp folder 
  • SSD are smaller but way faster than 10K or 15K drives 

NB: Will Dell allows for more than 4GB on a 32bits OS, I hope that they may through a call !

 

by: cuziyqPosted on 2009-11-03 at 16:37:00ID: 25735410

Nope.  I have worked with this software before believe it or not.  We have geologists where I work and I support this application for them.  We are also a Dell shop, so i feel especially qualified to answer this question for you.

The short answer is the T3400 is the better option.  There is little difference in CPU/memory performance between the two, but the T3400 has faster 15k SAS hard drives in it, which will really help when the application thrashes the hard drive.

 

by: cuziyqPosted on 2009-11-03 at 16:40:46ID: 25735429

Oh, and one other comment . . .

The SSD drive is a good suggestion, but if there is an SSD option for those machines, they will be the Dell OEM MLC variety, which (contrary to popular belief) are NOT faster than a 15k SAS hard drive (SSD's beat hard drives for I/O performance, but for raw data throughput, only the VERY expensive SLC SSD's are faster, and Dell only offers those as options on their servers, not workstations).

 

by: stevem5000Posted on 2009-11-03 at 18:06:13ID: 25735793

Thank thank you cuziyq...

Glad I found someone who is familiar with this...I have some questions for you, if you don;t mind...when I get back to the office tomorrow, where I have my stuff...I'll repost...

Thanx for your time...

 

by: BigSchmuhPosted on 2009-11-04 at 00:58:20ID: 25737508

You should give the RamDrive option a try...
Having an instantaneous SWAP file and TEMP folder DOES enhance performance of almost every application.

If ArcInfo use TEMP files, you will get serious gains from using RAM based files !

Regarding the SSD market, I agree that if you can not buy Intel's or Indylinx controller based SSD, they does not worth their price.
An Intel X25-E SSD can sustain the IOPS load of 13x SAS 15K : this is not a "popular belief" but a benchmark from an AnandTech review SSD versus Enterprise SAS and SATA disks

 

by: stevem5000Posted on 2009-11-04 at 08:29:31ID: 25740996

Ok...BigSchmuh and cuziyq...got some questions...

BigSchmuh...been reading on the RamDiskPlus...
do you personally use it...???
if so what has your experience been...???
how are you using the RamDiskPlus...???...what kind of hardware....How much RAM you using...what is your application...any problems???
I'm probably going download a test and see how it works...
The issue I have with Ram disks, I have uneducated users...it has to be completely transparent to the user...cannot create any problems for them...

cuziyq...
In your experience with ARCInfo...what is most important...fast CPU or fast Hard Drives...???...I realize you want the fastest on both...but I have a budget to deal with and need to make decisions...
I found an interesting SSD drive here... www.dvnation.com/SATA-SSD.html ...  they have a Photofast G-Monster V5...read/write at 270 Mb/s...pretty fast...they do this with 2 SSD chips in the box running RAID 0....about $600 so cost justifiable...

Dell does not provide SSD's in any of the workstations that I can find...and I'm looking mostly at T3400 and T5500...
So I would get the hard drive with it, use it for paging, temp files etc...put the OS and Programs on the SSD drive...

All data is kept on the server, 1Gb LAN line...not sure there is much I can do here...other than downloading the file to the workstation...perform the work then move it back to the server...always an option...but I don;t want to set some user up for failure in handling the files...

Been talking to my 2 users, they utilize alot of files of widely varying sizes...500mb or so is common...fairly often, 2-4 Gb file size...
Plus they also placemark files from ARCGIS in their maps...

I have considered having them move the files from the server to their workstations, do their work, then move the files back...that puts most everything on their local HD...should be much quicker...but I'm afraid something might happen and they lose data....
My 2 users are reporting very long upload, download times...ARCInfo is locking up...they have to reboot fairly often during the day...Lots of frustration...

Most of our computers are Dell Prec 690's, we replace computers on a 3 year schedule, and one of my users is ready for a new comptuer...so I'm trying to get the fastest, biggest, baddest computer I can within budget...some of these 690's are set RAID 0 for fastest possible read/writes...
But I'm afraid of RAID 0...I think you leave youself too exposed to HD failure...

AFter I get this one comptuer set up...then I will rebuild the 2 comptuers remaining...gonna take a couple months, but I will get the boxes rebuilt so that should take care of any comptuer issues...

Some background info...we have about 20 GIS users running ARCInfo and in a few cases other ARCGIS products...these users are spread around in about 5 different cities...2-3 techs provide support...none of us are very adept at GIS stuff and for the most part we have been shooting from the hip while we learn....

I have 2 users in a remote location that I support and I'm really behind the 8-ball in this GIS stuff...we techs talk, but nobody really has the answers...

Any info you guys can provide is much appreciated...

 

by: BigSchmuhPosted on 2009-11-04 at 09:43:46ID: 25741836

Regarding Ramdisk Plus
-I used it for few months on a 8GB with a XP 32bits on it
-It allows all unmanaged memory to be used (3.2GB visible by XP + 5.8GB in a ramdrive)
-It allows to store all its content at shutdown time on a normal HDD
-I think it is not compliant to the "Hibernation" mode where hiberfil.sys - I did not check cause my C drive is a SSD (X25-M 160GB that I don't want to write 3.2GB every day on it...plus it boots so fast) but it may be compliant - I don't know...

Regarding workstations using network large files, IF your users does not modify the same files at the same time, you may try to use some features like "DFS replication".
I know this DFS replication is a "server" feature but may be you can have a server acting as a DFS member and using your workstations share as replicate nodes.
==> For sure, your remote users has to use that kind of solutions

 

by: BigSchmuhPosted on 2009-11-04 at 09:54:50ID: 25741948

Regarding your SSD choice, I would NOT buy a SSD based on the infamous JMicron 602B controller to avoid getting write latency of up to 1 FULL second after some normal usage.

Please choose it after reading this AnandTech The SSD Relapse: Understanding and Choosing the Best SSD review...

 

by: stevem5000Posted on 2009-11-04 at 11:59:45ID: 25743274

I read your link AFTER I found the other one...there are several reviews on the Intel SSD...talk performance etc...all look very positive...the issue is, the Intell max SSD size is 64 Gb...that one is about $800...that would work for the OS and programs...but really doesn't leave much for local data...
I can set up a 15k SAS drive for data and paging file...and that is a consideration...if I get 2 SSD cards, now I have about $1600 into the computer...and I don;t think I can justify the cost to management...

I also read a bit on the JMicron controller...and they don;t seem to be real positive...but for what little I know about SSD...everything I read is a learning process...

Still studying...thanx for sticking with me...still a lot to learn...and your comments have been very helpful...
I am NOT going to be making a quick decision....and I will post here before I do purchase and get you guys final opinion...

 

by: BigSchmuhPosted on 2009-11-04 at 14:13:57ID: 25744595

Regarding SSD, I will choose between:
-OCZ Vertex 250 GB
-Intel X25-M G2 160GB
==> The X25-E model is limited to 64GB but its usage is "Enterprise" oriented

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