jonnyz0109
asked on
Things crashing even after a format... what could be wrong? Hardware related?
Chain of events:
I Bought a new graphics card - I used to have a Radeon All In Wonder 8500 dv, upgraded to Radeon 9800 pro. Never noticed a huge difference, my existing drivers worked pretty well... then I realised my motherboard only supported 4x. XP SP1a at this point.
I then bought & installed a new motherboard. I have an Asus P4P800 SE (upgraded from a Matsonic Piece of Junk). Soon I realised I would have to format and did so. I have two drives, C: for windows and programs, D: for documents files etc. I only formatted C: .
Once everything was reinstalled, and as I began to use my computer, things became very unstable. My system was restarting as it pleased (and I'd get the 'serious system error'). It was not always while I was gaming, many times it would restart while I was away, sometimes it would restart in the middle of me doing something... and it'd just hard restart, as if I'd pressed the restart button. Also, the one game that I play the most and had installed crashed almost nonstop... among many other things.
Figured it must have been the motherboard and returned it to get a new one. Put that in, and same problem. Decided to format once again. This time I used an SP2 slipstreamed install disk. Now the system itself seems stable, but all of my software is crashing - IE, Firefox, Trillian, my game (MOH:AA), and Shareaza so far. This is a clean system with almost nothing in it, as MOHAA was one of the first things I installed to test it out.
My conclusion is that it must be something hardware related. How do I find the problem? Where do I start? Only thought I have is that the thermal gel that goes between the processor and heatsink... that combo has been through 4 motherboard changes (initial build, 1 rebuild as I thought i did it wrong the first time, 3rd time for the new mobo, and now the 4th time with the replaced mobo). Is it possible that if this stuff isnt making a good contact, it would cause these problems? And how could I fix it? I can take a digital picture of what it looks like if need be.
System Specs:
P4 2.4 533 fsb
768MB PC2700 DDR Ram
Asus P4P800 SE (originally Matsonic MS9237E)
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB (originally ATI Radeon All In Wonder 8500 DV)
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS
Hauppauge WinTV Card
Western Digital Caviar 80GB (C: Drive)
Maxtor 160GB (D: Drive)
Maxtor PCI to IDE Card
I dont think things are overheating, but I will bring up my Asus probe and see if I can figure out logging (couldnt before), as I can't really watch it while I game. My case is definately cool, so if anything was overheating, it'd be the drive, video card, or cpu itself.
Thanks in advance,
~ Jonny
I Bought a new graphics card - I used to have a Radeon All In Wonder 8500 dv, upgraded to Radeon 9800 pro. Never noticed a huge difference, my existing drivers worked pretty well... then I realised my motherboard only supported 4x. XP SP1a at this point.
I then bought & installed a new motherboard. I have an Asus P4P800 SE (upgraded from a Matsonic Piece of Junk). Soon I realised I would have to format and did so. I have two drives, C: for windows and programs, D: for documents files etc. I only formatted C: .
Once everything was reinstalled, and as I began to use my computer, things became very unstable. My system was restarting as it pleased (and I'd get the 'serious system error'). It was not always while I was gaming, many times it would restart while I was away, sometimes it would restart in the middle of me doing something... and it'd just hard restart, as if I'd pressed the restart button. Also, the one game that I play the most and had installed crashed almost nonstop... among many other things.
Figured it must have been the motherboard and returned it to get a new one. Put that in, and same problem. Decided to format once again. This time I used an SP2 slipstreamed install disk. Now the system itself seems stable, but all of my software is crashing - IE, Firefox, Trillian, my game (MOH:AA), and Shareaza so far. This is a clean system with almost nothing in it, as MOHAA was one of the first things I installed to test it out.
My conclusion is that it must be something hardware related. How do I find the problem? Where do I start? Only thought I have is that the thermal gel that goes between the processor and heatsink... that combo has been through 4 motherboard changes (initial build, 1 rebuild as I thought i did it wrong the first time, 3rd time for the new mobo, and now the 4th time with the replaced mobo). Is it possible that if this stuff isnt making a good contact, it would cause these problems? And how could I fix it? I can take a digital picture of what it looks like if need be.
System Specs:
P4 2.4 533 fsb
768MB PC2700 DDR Ram
Asus P4P800 SE (originally Matsonic MS9237E)
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB (originally ATI Radeon All In Wonder 8500 DV)
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS
Hauppauge WinTV Card
Western Digital Caviar 80GB (C: Drive)
Maxtor 160GB (D: Drive)
Maxtor PCI to IDE Card
I dont think things are overheating, but I will bring up my Asus probe and see if I can figure out logging (couldnt before), as I can't really watch it while I game. My case is definately cool, so if anything was overheating, it'd be the drive, video card, or cpu itself.
Thanks in advance,
~ Jonny
first thing to check is the power supply it may be to old and under powered for your new hard ware all so a test of the ram wood be a good idea as you may have damaged it with stactic when you changed the boards also you need to get some new thermal compound every time you remove the fan from the cpu as the ond stuff gets dry and dose not move well a good program to test the ram is this http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
ASKER
I forgot to mention, the Power Supply is only a few months old and is a 500W (believe its either a PowMax).
Where can I find the compound? And how hard is it to apply? Also, if the compound was dried up and not making a good contact, could it be causing my problems?
Thanks,
Jonny
Where can I find the compound? And how hard is it to apply? Also, if the compound was dried up and not making a good contact, could it be causing my problems?
Thanks,
Jonny
any good computer shop will have the compound and yes if its not making a good contact then it wood cause the sort of problems your having
ASKER
I replaced the compound and things are still crashing. I did notice a stablization of my cpu however - the temperature is staying around 100-105 at normal usage, and 115-125 during gaming. (P4 2.4 533)
Going to try this afternoon:
1) Change back to my old graphics card
2) Test Ram
3) Take out some components (to test sufficient power).
About the power - I bought a new PowMax 500W for about $50 online -- and someone told me I did not spend enough, and that this was a piece of junk. Is that true?
Thanks,
~ Jonny
Going to try this afternoon:
1) Change back to my old graphics card
2) Test Ram
3) Take out some components (to test sufficient power).
About the power - I bought a new PowMax 500W for about $50 online -- and someone told me I did not spend enough, and that this was a piece of junk. Is that true?
Thanks,
~ Jonny
ASKER
Some Additional information:
Generally things will stay stable until my game crashes. It takes anywhere between 2 and 30 minutes for my game to crash (closes and the error reporting box comes up), but once it does, very little in my computer will stay working for any real amount of time, and I have to restart. This includes internet browsing (Firefox and IE), media player 10, even Windows Explorer.
I got an interesting one lastnight - for the first time explorer was acting crazy on a restart without playing the game. I had just ripped two of my DVD's to my secondary hard drive, and went to browse to them via My Documents, and Exporer kept freezing. Watching Task manager revealed that a drwatson32.exe was opening everytime I got into that folder. If I left it long enough, an error would come up that Dr Watson processing something had to close.... and another instance of drwatson32.exe would open up and continue freezing explorer. I have Norton AV... what is this Dr. Watson?
Lastly - I bought a new flat panel monitor on Saturday, and lastnight I noticed the strangest thing. While listening to music (through headphones - speakers were not powered on) the flat panel had pulsing horizontal lines. As soon as I stopped playback the pulsing would stop. Is this issue related? I would think this shouldn't be happening...
~ Jonny
Generally things will stay stable until my game crashes. It takes anywhere between 2 and 30 minutes for my game to crash (closes and the error reporting box comes up), but once it does, very little in my computer will stay working for any real amount of time, and I have to restart. This includes internet browsing (Firefox and IE), media player 10, even Windows Explorer.
I got an interesting one lastnight - for the first time explorer was acting crazy on a restart without playing the game. I had just ripped two of my DVD's to my secondary hard drive, and went to browse to them via My Documents, and Exporer kept freezing. Watching Task manager revealed that a drwatson32.exe was opening everytime I got into that folder. If I left it long enough, an error would come up that Dr Watson processing something had to close.... and another instance of drwatson32.exe would open up and continue freezing explorer. I have Norton AV... what is this Dr. Watson?
Lastly - I bought a new flat panel monitor on Saturday, and lastnight I noticed the strangest thing. While listening to music (through headphones - speakers were not powered on) the flat panel had pulsing horizontal lines. As soon as I stopped playback the pulsing would stop. Is this issue related? I would think this shouldn't be happening...
~ Jonny
hi a 500wt psu will be adequete for your needs its true powermax are not the best but thay work
ok lets start at the begining first you booted with your xp cd selected the option to format and instal windows after it finished instaling did you put the cd that came with your mother board in to the drive and install all the drivers ? then put the cd for your vid card in and install the drivers for that next any other drivers need to be instaled then your anti virus make shore you have the latest version of norton av as the older one hade a bug with sp2
then go to the windows update site and get any updates you need then start instaling your programs if you still get lookups open the case of the pc and put a desk top fan blowing cold air in to it is it moor stable
also drwatson is a windows diag program if its runing then some thing is wrong and windows is trying to find the fault
anothe thing to check is all the cards inc ram and plugs and leads cables ect are compleatley pushed home and all fans are spining run chkdsk on your hard drives inc the D drive post back when you can
ok lets start at the begining first you booted with your xp cd selected the option to format and instal windows after it finished instaling did you put the cd that came with your mother board in to the drive and install all the drivers ? then put the cd for your vid card in and install the drivers for that next any other drivers need to be instaled then your anti virus make shore you have the latest version of norton av as the older one hade a bug with sp2
then go to the windows update site and get any updates you need then start instaling your programs if you still get lookups open the case of the pc and put a desk top fan blowing cold air in to it is it moor stable
also drwatson is a windows diag program if its runing then some thing is wrong and windows is trying to find the fault
anothe thing to check is all the cards inc ram and plugs and leads cables ect are compleatley pushed home and all fans are spining run chkdsk on your hard drives inc the D drive post back when you can
ASKER
I will try all of the things that you mentioned when I get home this evening. I have Norton 2003, two versions old... maybe I should try to uninstall this and see if I still have problems.
As for installing - yes I formatted the C: drive clean, next installed the drivers for my motherboard from the CD, but I did not install the drivers for my graphics card from the CD, I just went straight to the internet and downloaded the latest version of ATI Catalyst drivers.
Temperatures seem to be fine - motherboard is running continuously under 100 degrees f, cpu is running under 125 degrees f (usually idling between 100-105).
I (somehow) fried the last lead of a power cable, the one that goes into the floppy. After rebuilding, the wire started smoking and it pretty much fried itself... I must have had the polarity in backwards or something. Anyway, the last lead, and the second to the last lead are not being used (I think the first 1 or two are used, but those are just for CD Drives). I don't see how this could present a problem but figured I should post anyway.
Thanks for your help.
As for installing - yes I formatted the C: drive clean, next installed the drivers for my motherboard from the CD, but I did not install the drivers for my graphics card from the CD, I just went straight to the internet and downloaded the latest version of ATI Catalyst drivers.
Temperatures seem to be fine - motherboard is running continuously under 100 degrees f, cpu is running under 125 degrees f (usually idling between 100-105).
I (somehow) fried the last lead of a power cable, the one that goes into the floppy. After rebuilding, the wire started smoking and it pretty much fried itself... I must have had the polarity in backwards or something. Anyway, the last lead, and the second to the last lead are not being used (I think the first 1 or two are used, but those are just for CD Drives). I don't see how this could present a problem but figured I should post anyway.
Thanks for your help.
the fried leads may have damaged your power supply which wood cause the problams your having all so norton 2003 needs to be updated or get a free anti virus like avg which is the one i use http://free.grisoft.com/freeweb.php/doc/1/
ASKER
The PS is about 2 months old (or less) and I bought it from an online retailer (I think it was newegg but I'd have to look back). Is it likely that I have a warantee of any kind?
I will try disabling / uninstalling Norton this afternoon. I have used AVG and compared to Norton it doesn't seem to perform... plus I would rather spend some money on my antivirus anyway.
I will try disabling / uninstalling Norton this afternoon. I have used AVG and compared to Norton it doesn't seem to perform... plus I would rather spend some money on my antivirus anyway.
no problem post back when you have updated Norton and checked out the psu
ASKER
Well I have done the following:
1) Uninstalled NAV
2) Swapped out my new for my old vid card
3) Scandisked the D: Drive (which took longer then I have ever seen).
All this done in one restart. I just got the system back about 15 min ago. Immediately firefox crashed while trying to use it. IE has behaved itself in checking my EE mail, etc. I am now going to go play the game and see what happens.
One thing to mention - I bought a new flat panel, and when I first hooked it up it was very clear. Now lately it seems to be pulsing a lot. Now with my old video card I Have to run it at 70 hz (was at 60) otherwise it is pulsing and acting very strange. Am I damaging my new monitor??
1) Uninstalled NAV
2) Swapped out my new for my old vid card
3) Scandisked the D: Drive (which took longer then I have ever seen).
All this done in one restart. I just got the system back about 15 min ago. Immediately firefox crashed while trying to use it. IE has behaved itself in checking my EE mail, etc. I am now going to go play the game and see what happens.
One thing to mention - I bought a new flat panel, and when I first hooked it up it was very clear. Now lately it seems to be pulsing a lot. Now with my old video card I Have to run it at 70 hz (was at 60) otherwise it is pulsing and acting very strange. Am I damaging my new monitor??
ASKER
Well one of those things did something... And I'm thinking it was my graphics card, because just putting my "new" one back in, MOH crashed. I played earlier with my old card in for at least an hour and no crash.
Also my video card had stopped responding once prior to the game crashing (actually never happened before). I think the vid card is overheating... I have a pretty packed case, and 6 out of the 7 expansion slots are filled... Going to reorganize these pci devices and see if I can give the vid card some more room to breath. Also, is there some sort of horizontal mount fan that could help my vid card stay cool? It has its own little heatsink built on but that is just blowing hot air to the card below it, which happens to be my Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS...
~ Jonny
Also my video card had stopped responding once prior to the game crashing (actually never happened before). I think the vid card is overheating... I have a pretty packed case, and 6 out of the 7 expansion slots are filled... Going to reorganize these pci devices and see if I can give the vid card some more room to breath. Also, is there some sort of horizontal mount fan that could help my vid card stay cool? It has its own little heatsink built on but that is just blowing hot air to the card below it, which happens to be my Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS...
~ Jonny
you can get vid card coolers have a look at new egg or an over-clockers site for one.for now try a desk top fan blowing cold air in to the case dose the radon pro need a power lead attached to it ? and have you downloaded the latest drivers for it ? as for the monitor make shore you don't have any speakers or power leads near it and you use the correct refresh rate for it
ASKER
>> you can get vid card coolers have a look at new egg or an over-clockers site for one.
Will do.
>> for now try a desk top fan blowing cold air in to the case
I will try that tonight... that was my next step but I was just too tired last night, so I posted and went to bed :o)
>> dose the radon pro need a power lead attached to it
Yes it does, and it is hooked up. The computer won't even boot without that power lead.
>> and have you downloaded the latest drivers for it ?
Yes, the latest driver set from the website - I believe it is Catalyst 4.11 (going by memory).
>> as for the monitor make shore you don't have any speakers or power leads near it and you use the correct refresh rate for it
Not that I can think of... the refresh rate is correct, I will have to try moving some things around and see if I can find any interference. I was more interested in seeing if this could be related to a lack of power to the video card?
~ Jonny
Will do.
>> for now try a desk top fan blowing cold air in to the case
I will try that tonight... that was my next step but I was just too tired last night, so I posted and went to bed :o)
>> dose the radon pro need a power lead attached to it
Yes it does, and it is hooked up. The computer won't even boot without that power lead.
>> and have you downloaded the latest drivers for it ?
Yes, the latest driver set from the website - I believe it is Catalyst 4.11 (going by memory).
>> as for the monitor make shore you don't have any speakers or power leads near it and you use the correct refresh rate for it
Not that I can think of... the refresh rate is correct, I will have to try moving some things around and see if I can find any interference. I was more interested in seeing if this could be related to a lack of power to the video card?
~ Jonny
ok as the radion pro needs power it may be the power supply did the old card need power as well ?
ASKER
No, it didn't... I didn't think of that. Maybe tonight I will first try playing with a fan blowing on it, and then try unplugging some unneeded devices.
good plan post back with results
ASKER
well... SOMETHING was overheating. Just played at LEAST 2 hours with no lag, no crashes, no errors.. I have a big 'ole Vornado blowing into my case :o)
I would expect the culprit to be my Video card... what do you think? Currently, with the fan running, I see 77 degrees on the motherboard and 91 on the CPU (and that's JUST after getting back from gaming... the cpu was down near 85 earlier). I dont know how to check the video card, but both of these numbers aren't terribly lower then without the fan... but the video card is definately cool to the touch now.
I guess I will have to do some re-arranging and figure out some additional cooling for the video card. Is it possible that my psu is overheating?
I would expect the culprit to be my Video card... what do you think? Currently, with the fan running, I see 77 degrees on the motherboard and 91 on the CPU (and that's JUST after getting back from gaming... the cpu was down near 85 earlier). I dont know how to check the video card, but both of these numbers aren't terribly lower then without the fan... but the video card is definately cool to the touch now.
I guess I will have to do some re-arranging and figure out some additional cooling for the video card. Is it possible that my psu is overheating?
yes it can be the psu is it full of dust at the back ? also with a packed case the load on the psu will be heavy and yes the new vid card may be at fault as well have you checked the bios to make shore the agp settings are correct
ASKER
well it cant be the bios settings - blowing a fan into the case definately fixed the problem... and there is enough power available. So we are down to - something is overheating... it's just figuring out what it is...
SOLUTION
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well it cant be the bios settings - blowing a fan into the case definately fixed the problem... and there is enough power available. So we are down to - something is overheating... it's just figuring out what it is...
test the power supply first then vid card as like albertabeef says powmax is not the best with the amount of stuff you have in your computer and the damaged leads wont help
test the power supply first then vid card as like albertabeef says powmax is not the best with the amount of stuff you have in your computer and the damaged leads wont help
ASKER
great..... 50 bucks completely wasted eh? See my original post - would 350 W really take care of all those components? I bought the 500 in anticipation of adding my new graphics card, and was worried 400W would not take care of the load (that one died, it was a PowMax that came with my case... great I couldn't have looked at that BEFORE I got the new one)
How much should I be spending on a PS anyway? I figured 50 was more then sufficient.
As for cooling - I have 3 CoolerMaster 80 mm fans on my case, 2 intake in the front on the bottom of the case (even though the front is solid, I guess air comes in through the bottom) and one in the normal spot under the PS in the back blowing out. Also my PS has a fan on the back of it blowing air into the unit... that's one reason why I bought this one.
How much should I be spending on a PS anyway? I figured 50 was more then sufficient.
As for cooling - I have 3 CoolerMaster 80 mm fans on my case, 2 intake in the front on the bottom of the case (even though the front is solid, I guess air comes in through the bottom) and one in the normal spot under the PS in the back blowing out. Also my PS has a fan on the back of it blowing air into the unit... that's one reason why I bought this one.
SOLUTION
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ASKER
whew.... 90 bucks for a power supply, I don't know. I have to think maturely and say - well my computer works pretty close to 100% until I game, and come January I won't even be gaming, but will be concentrating on my studies. Is this PowMax REALLY that bad?
SOLUTION
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Johny-
How about this PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-920&depa=0
It also comes with 2 fans to cool better. Hope this helps.
How about this PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-920&depa=0
It also comes with 2 fans to cool better. Hope this helps.
I (somehow) fried the last lead of a power cable, the one that goes into the floppy. After rebuilding, the wire started smoking and it pretty much fried itself... I must have had the polarity in backwards or something. Anyway, the last lead, and the second to the last lead are not being used (I think the first 1 or two are used, but those are just for CD Drives). I don't see how this could present a problem but figured I should post anyway.
this is the reason i suspect the psu and not the vid card as any damage to the leads can cause a short the psu walletless linked to is good enough for your needs the one on my link is over the top i have the 500w model so thats the one i recommend to every one just because i like it mind you i like peanut butter with honey and Banana sandwiches as well :-D
this is the reason i suspect the psu and not the vid card as any damage to the leads can cause a short the psu walletless linked to is good enough for your needs the one on my link is over the top i have the 500w model so thats the one i recommend to every one just because i like it mind you i like peanut butter with honey and Banana sandwiches as well :-D
ASKER
*sighs* ok, ok... I guess I need a new psu. The one wallet has above looks pretty good, what do you think andy?
<< mind you i like peanut butter with honey and Banana sandwiches as well :-D >>
*lol* well I don't like spending a lot of money on something that I can't really see a difference on... so a really expensive psu isn't my cup of tea :o) BTW - Peanut butter and banana sandwiches are gooooood... but with honey??? :-D
Wallet thanks for the suggestion, I wish I found that psu 2 months ago before I bought my current one :-\
~ Jonny
<< mind you i like peanut butter with honey and Banana sandwiches as well :-D >>
*lol* well I don't like spending a lot of money on something that I can't really see a difference on... so a really expensive psu isn't my cup of tea :o) BTW - Peanut butter and banana sandwiches are gooooood... but with honey??? :-D
Wallet thanks for the suggestion, I wish I found that psu 2 months ago before I bought my current one :-\
~ Jonny
No problem Johny-
Glad this helped. I always trust Antec when it comes to case and PSU :)
Glad this helped. I always trust Antec when it comes to case and PSU :)
SOLUTION
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ASKER
<< your not alone most people look at the psu as a basic part and the cheaper the better >>
Yep, that's me
<< a cheep psu can take out every other item in your box and leave you with a pile of junk that was once a good computer >>
Good point, I never thought of that. I don't like fried parts...
<< give it a try yum yum :-) >>
I think I will have to :o)
*looks around for things to sell on ebay*
I think I will buy it and use the current psu on a test machine or something, I don't know. It's basically a $50 hunk of useless metal I guess...
And I WILL close this thread eventually, I promise. I just have not had the time to figure out what exactly is causing the problems (still using the fan...).
Yep, that's me
<< a cheep psu can take out every other item in your box and leave you with a pile of junk that was once a good computer >>
Good point, I never thought of that. I don't like fried parts...
<< give it a try yum yum :-) >>
I think I will have to :o)
*looks around for things to sell on ebay*
I think I will buy it and use the current psu on a test machine or something, I don't know. It's basically a $50 hunk of useless metal I guess...
And I WILL close this thread eventually, I promise. I just have not had the time to figure out what exactly is causing the problems (still using the fan...).
>I WILL close this thread eventually, I promise<
no rush lets get your computer fixed first
no rush lets get your computer fixed first
ASKER
I Installed an AGP Card cooler the other day - VGA Silencer from Arctic-Cooling. The graphics card is much cooler, but w/out the fan blowing cool air into the box, random things still crash (i.e. Firefox). I'm thinking it's the PSU now...
There is a bit more of an urgency, I am going away to school and I doubt there will be room for me to put a fan blowing into my box :-P So I'm going to look into seeing how quickly I can get the above recommended PSU shipped to my house.
Thanks again all.
There is a bit more of an urgency, I am going away to school and I doubt there will be room for me to put a fan blowing into my box :-P So I'm going to look into seeing how quickly I can get the above recommended PSU shipped to my house.
Thanks again all.
ASKER
The local Mom 'n Pop store down the road has an "EchoStar" PSU - 480 Watt - for $39. Do you think this is worth the money, or should I go with paying the extra for the one recommended above?
Thanks,
Jonny
Thanks,
Jonny
ASKER
Scratch my previous comment.
For anyone that is browsing through this thread in the future and looking for some good info on PSU's - http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/psus/index.x?pg=1. It is a long read but well worth it... I will never look at Power Supplies the same way again :)
Andy - the model that you first posted, the OCZ one, got a great review in TR's report. Now I am trying to figure out whether I want OCZ's ModStream or PowerStream line. Both look very enticing.
Also the 5 year warranty that OCZ provides is a big deciding factor in my spending more money on a PSU. Pay more now, don't worry about it later :)
For anyone that is browsing through this thread in the future and looking for some good info on PSU's - http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/psus/index.x?pg=1. It is a long read but well worth it... I will never look at Power Supplies the same way again :)
Andy - the model that you first posted, the OCZ one, got a great review in TR's report. Now I am trying to figure out whether I want OCZ's ModStream or PowerStream line. Both look very enticing.
Also the 5 year warranty that OCZ provides is a big deciding factor in my spending more money on a PSU. Pay more now, don't worry about it later :)
hi jonnyz
<The local Mom 'n Pop store down the road has an "EchoStar" PSU - 480 Watt - for $39>
your answer to that one is in your next post ie Pay more now, don't worry about it later
get the best you can afford and you will be happy.
nice link on the psu as well added to my favorites :-)
<The local Mom 'n Pop store down the road has an "EchoStar" PSU - 480 Watt - for $39>
your answer to that one is in your next post ie Pay more now, don't worry about it later
get the best you can afford and you will be happy.
nice link on the psu as well added to my favorites :-)
ASKER
hey andy :)
Bought the modstream 520w lastnight from newegg, $120 + shipping. Like you said, $120 is not a lot when you think about a piece of hardward lasting me the next 5 years. I don't even expect my hard drives to do that! OCZ isn't going anywhere... good perchase I believe. We'll see how the system runs after I replace the PSU.
It's still unstable without the fan. With the fan running I am actually oc'd 20% up to 2.88 ghz with no problems. So weird...
Bought the modstream 520w lastnight from newegg, $120 + shipping. Like you said, $120 is not a lot when you think about a piece of hardward lasting me the next 5 years. I don't even expect my hard drives to do that! OCZ isn't going anywhere... good perchase I believe. We'll see how the system runs after I replace the PSU.
It's still unstable without the fan. With the fan running I am actually oc'd 20% up to 2.88 ghz with no problems. So weird...
hi jonnyz
good choice on the psu :-)
if it still plays up after you change it then the only other thing to do is hit it with a hammer and get a xbox or play station instead ;-)
good choice on the psu :-)
if it still plays up after you change it then the only other thing to do is hit it with a hammer and get a xbox or play station instead ;-)
ASKER
well tonights update: JUST finished installing the new psu. I reworked the entire inside of the case, re-ran all the cables, just making everything look neat. also rearranged my pci cards so it gives a little more breathing room in there. So far so good but I will report back within a day :)
ASKER
Please look through my comments below, I have a lot of questions. I really need to figure out what the problem is, because I'm leaving for college on Tuesday and I will not be able to have a fan blowing into my case. This is a bad thing, because I'm a programmer, and you sort of need a stable computer for that kind of thing.... Big problem :(
Still the same problem. I really cannot believe this... I've never heard of it nor would I ever be able to imagine this up, it's so flukey. I don't know, I may close this and open a new question, or something... there has to be something wrong and I can't figure it out, I've put hours and hours on end into trying to narrow the problem down to one piece of hardware.
My best attempt at documenting what is happening right now:
I ran a good amount of time with the case closed up with no problems. I gamed for about 10 minutes and the game crashed, following that nothing would work properly (i.e. Firefox, which seems to be the best test, so I'll be using that as a standard. When things are generally screwy, Firefox just crashes at my home page or one click in. When things are OK, I can browse using Firefox normally). Here are some temperatures for you (all in farenheit)
- Case Closed - CPU: 113-117 / Case: 95... Firefox Crashing
- Case opened for < 30 seconds, fan turned to high - CPU: 113-117 / Case: 90... Firefox not crashing.
- Case opened for > 15 minutes, fan on low, temps stablized - CPU: 105-110 / Case: 78
I am convinced that SOMETHING is overheating... first off, can you agree with that observation?
Now, does RAM overheat? I have 2 sticks of Brand Name Ram (I might try testing with one stick in at a time later, I'll see what time I have) but I believe the two sticks are different. I also wish I had a way of measuring the core tempurature on my Radeon 9800 Pro... I have the VGA Cooler on there but how do I know I set it up right and it's working? I do feel hot air being pushed out the back of it, but it's not nearly as much airflow as I had expected...
After that, hard drives? I have 2 hard drives, they are spaced out with 2 case fans sucking air into the case, and blowing it in between the two drives. I did add a third hard drive to archive some stuff, but that't not even powered up, and this all was happening long before I put that hard drive in. If it WAS an overheating hard drive... which side needs the most room to breath, bottom or top (bottom = the circuitry, etc., top = label & metal casing)? I could maybe mount one of the drives upside down so the correct side is getting some cool air blown across it...
Still the same problem. I really cannot believe this... I've never heard of it nor would I ever be able to imagine this up, it's so flukey. I don't know, I may close this and open a new question, or something... there has to be something wrong and I can't figure it out, I've put hours and hours on end into trying to narrow the problem down to one piece of hardware.
My best attempt at documenting what is happening right now:
I ran a good amount of time with the case closed up with no problems. I gamed for about 10 minutes and the game crashed, following that nothing would work properly (i.e. Firefox, which seems to be the best test, so I'll be using that as a standard. When things are generally screwy, Firefox just crashes at my home page or one click in. When things are OK, I can browse using Firefox normally). Here are some temperatures for you (all in farenheit)
- Case Closed - CPU: 113-117 / Case: 95... Firefox Crashing
- Case opened for < 30 seconds, fan turned to high - CPU: 113-117 / Case: 90... Firefox not crashing.
- Case opened for > 15 minutes, fan on low, temps stablized - CPU: 105-110 / Case: 78
I am convinced that SOMETHING is overheating... first off, can you agree with that observation?
Now, does RAM overheat? I have 2 sticks of Brand Name Ram (I might try testing with one stick in at a time later, I'll see what time I have) but I believe the two sticks are different. I also wish I had a way of measuring the core tempurature on my Radeon 9800 Pro... I have the VGA Cooler on there but how do I know I set it up right and it's working? I do feel hot air being pushed out the back of it, but it's not nearly as much airflow as I had expected...
After that, hard drives? I have 2 hard drives, they are spaced out with 2 case fans sucking air into the case, and blowing it in between the two drives. I did add a third hard drive to archive some stuff, but that't not even powered up, and this all was happening long before I put that hard drive in. If it WAS an overheating hard drive... which side needs the most room to breath, bottom or top (bottom = the circuitry, etc., top = label & metal casing)? I could maybe mount one of the drives upside down so the correct side is getting some cool air blown across it...
ASKER
250 pts
ASKER
Comment from davidis99 feedback
Date: 01/09/2005 12:08AM EST
Comment Accept
Looking at your original post and this one, the questions I have are:
1) power supply - is it at least 400W? Is it a good, name brand power supply (PC Power and Cooling, Antec)? I'm wondering if between the CPU, video card, other cards, and drives, you're simply not getting reliable power to everything.
2) have you tried pulling PCI cards you may not need, such as the Maxtor PCI to IDE, unless the motherboard doesn't support the 160GB HD, the hauppauge card, or even the creative audigy (I know you need it for gaming, but it's not a requirement for programming unless you're designing games.)
3) are all your drivers - motherboard, audio, video - up to date?
4) RAM can overheat, but this is rare - you need a really hot CPU partnered with a cheap fan/heatsink for this to affect the RAM. There are heatsinks for RAM on the market, but that shouldn't be your first step with this system.
Comment from jonnyz0109
Date: 01/09/2005 12:33AM EST
Your Comment
1) Power supply is 520 W and it's OCZ.. I just bought it for $120 and installed it lastnight.
2) Maxtor is out, I thought that was the problem for a while. Also have gone with the TV Card out for a while. Hard drives have been in for a long time without any problems.
3) I always install my hardware off of drivers from the internet, and as I said in the main thread I formatted thinking drivers/software/xp install was the problem, and afterwords I used fresh downloaded drivers for everything.
4) Sounds good with the RAM. The CPU is getting to 120 F at the hottest, with system closed. It's running 96 F at "idle" right now (I have been using the comp but not gaming) with the case open.
Also as I mentioned in the main thread, this problem seems to have popped up only after installing this new mobo. I promptly returned this one and got a replacement thinking I had gotten a bad mobo, but only to find the same problems. That's when I formatted.
My questions:
1) I need to figure out a reliable way of monitoring temps on my video card, AND I need to know what temps are considered "acceptable" and "reasonable" (within spec) for the vid card. Also, monitoring temps on the two drives?
Can you please move the discussion into the main thread? I'd like to keep everything there for reference.
Thanks,
~ Jonny
Date: 01/09/2005 12:08AM EST
Comment Accept
Looking at your original post and this one, the questions I have are:
1) power supply - is it at least 400W? Is it a good, name brand power supply (PC Power and Cooling, Antec)? I'm wondering if between the CPU, video card, other cards, and drives, you're simply not getting reliable power to everything.
2) have you tried pulling PCI cards you may not need, such as the Maxtor PCI to IDE, unless the motherboard doesn't support the 160GB HD, the hauppauge card, or even the creative audigy (I know you need it for gaming, but it's not a requirement for programming unless you're designing games.)
3) are all your drivers - motherboard, audio, video - up to date?
4) RAM can overheat, but this is rare - you need a really hot CPU partnered with a cheap fan/heatsink for this to affect the RAM. There are heatsinks for RAM on the market, but that shouldn't be your first step with this system.
Comment from jonnyz0109
Date: 01/09/2005 12:33AM EST
Your Comment
1) Power supply is 520 W and it's OCZ.. I just bought it for $120 and installed it lastnight.
2) Maxtor is out, I thought that was the problem for a while. Also have gone with the TV Card out for a while. Hard drives have been in for a long time without any problems.
3) I always install my hardware off of drivers from the internet, and as I said in the main thread I formatted thinking drivers/software/xp install was the problem, and afterwords I used fresh downloaded drivers for everything.
4) Sounds good with the RAM. The CPU is getting to 120 F at the hottest, with system closed. It's running 96 F at "idle" right now (I have been using the comp but not gaming) with the case open.
Also as I mentioned in the main thread, this problem seems to have popped up only after installing this new mobo. I promptly returned this one and got a replacement thinking I had gotten a bad mobo, but only to find the same problems. That's when I formatted.
My questions:
1) I need to figure out a reliable way of monitoring temps on my video card, AND I need to know what temps are considered "acceptable" and "reasonable" (within spec) for the vid card. Also, monitoring temps on the two drives?
Can you please move the discussion into the main thread? I'd like to keep everything there for reference.
Thanks,
~ Jonny
ASKER
Ladies and Gentlemen, it's time for Show and Tell :o)
I took some pictures of the inside of the box, maybe it'll help, maybe it'll give you an idea of what I'm trying to explain. In any case, check out the links. The last picture is just of my setup, to give you an idea of how the fan is, etc.
http://webspace.clan-fof.net/comp_inside1.jpg
http://webspace.clan-fof.net/comp_inside2.jpg
http://webspace.clan-fof.net/comp_setup1.jpg
I took some pictures of the inside of the box, maybe it'll help, maybe it'll give you an idea of what I'm trying to explain. In any case, check out the links. The last picture is just of my setup, to give you an idea of how the fan is, etc.
http://webspace.clan-fof.net/comp_inside1.jpg
http://webspace.clan-fof.net/comp_inside2.jpg
http://webspace.clan-fof.net/comp_setup1.jpg
While I don't think that this'll fix your heating problem: but it appears that you have dual channel motherboard there, so you should fill memory slots 1 & 3 before filling slot 2 - please have a read of your mobo manual.
I'm sure this has been asked somewhere - can you actually see/confirm that the fan on your graphics card is turning?
In case your graphics card isn't making good contact in the mobo slot - can you try loosening the screws holding down your mobo to the case/reseat the mobo & retighten the screws.
I'm sure this has been asked somewhere - can you actually see/confirm that the fan on your graphics card is turning?
In case your graphics card isn't making good contact in the mobo slot - can you try loosening the screws holding down your mobo to the case/reseat the mobo & retighten the screws.
ASKER
The fan on the graphics card was replaced by the VGA Cooler, and the fan in that is definately spinning. I can feel the warm air being pushed out the back of the unit.
Memory: I will change it to slots 1 & 3, thanks :)
Graphics card: It feels like the card itself can't go any further into the slot. Also, there is a locking mechanism at the right end of the AGP slot, which will not close unless the card is all the way in there, so it should be pretty tight.
Thanks for the suggestions,
~ Jonny
Memory: I will change it to slots 1 & 3, thanks :)
Graphics card: It feels like the card itself can't go any further into the slot. Also, there is a locking mechanism at the right end of the AGP slot, which will not close unless the card is all the way in there, so it should be pretty tight.
Thanks for the suggestions,
~ Jonny
ASKER
I left my PC Case closed up overnight, and in the morning first thing Firefox crashed. I noticed my case temp was close to (if not past) 100 degrees f. That seems pretty high, especially with 3 case fans running. Could it be that I just need to cool my box better?
I have been thinking about putting a case fan on the side plexiglass window. Unfortunately I'm not that handy and I would probably distroy the plexiglass and/or the entire side panel if I tired to mod it myself. My fan configuration right now: (See pictures above for reference) 2 fans blowing into the case, they are located in the front/bottom, but the front panel of the case is solid. There are some holes on the bottom and it feels like that is where they fans are pulling the air from. Also 1 fan in the back, under the PSU, blowing out of the case. There aren't any more spots to put case fans in the back...
What do you guys think?
I have been thinking about putting a case fan on the side plexiglass window. Unfortunately I'm not that handy and I would probably distroy the plexiglass and/or the entire side panel if I tired to mod it myself. My fan configuration right now: (See pictures above for reference) 2 fans blowing into the case, they are located in the front/bottom, but the front panel of the case is solid. There are some holes on the bottom and it feels like that is where they fans are pulling the air from. Also 1 fan in the back, under the PSU, blowing out of the case. There aren't any more spots to put case fans in the back...
What do you guys think?
ASKER
BTW with the fan running just 10 minutes the case has settled down around 82 degrees f.
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I don't know if it's name brand or not, I got it at a computer fair and it was $50 with a 400 W Powmax psu in it. It is considered a gaming case because it came with an LED fan in the back, and the power light is a blue led that lights up a front clear plexiglass panel.
Is 100 degrees considered too hot for a case tempurature, as reported by my motherboard utility?
Is 100 degrees considered too hot for a case tempurature, as reported by my motherboard utility?
ASKER
Temps are:
CPU: 100 f
MB: 84 f
I'll close up the case and check back in an hour and see what's going on. All that is running right now is WMP, Trillian, and other background apps. Nothing CPU intensive.
CPU: 100 f
MB: 84 f
I'll close up the case and check back in an hour and see what's going on. All that is running right now is WMP, Trillian, and other background apps. Nothing CPU intensive.
Those temps don't seem too bad to me. However, you seem to have proven that your PC crashes are temp related. I'm running an old Athlon processor here, which run hotter than a P4, my mobo is 100 f and my CPU is 118 f. If I'm doing something that causes a warning beep, I've got a big case fan in there which I can turn up.
ASKER
yeh things just aren't adding up...
temps 1/2 hour from my last post are now:
CPU: 111 f
MB: 100 f
That's with not even using the computer, I've been downstairs packing. And Firefox seems to be working fine right now.
temps 1/2 hour from my last post are now:
CPU: 111 f
MB: 100 f
That's with not even using the computer, I've been downstairs packing. And Firefox seems to be working fine right now.
SOLUTION
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Unfortunately led fans and plexiglass sides are not a good indicator of whether the case has good ventilation or not. If you're not game to attempt fitting the fan into the plexiglass, then have you condsidered trying to fit to the top of the case? Lian-Li has an example here: http://www.vr-zone.com/reviews/LianLi/PC39A/
ASKER
I don't know, I'm going to be at school. I guess I'll have to keep those ideas in the back of my mind and maybe I will meet someone down there that can do it for me, or maybe it's time for a new case. THAT depends on how much money is left over after I get settled.
Do you guys think I would benefit from having a fan on the side plexiglass window?
Putting the fan on the top: It wouldnt work very well with this case, as there is only a tiny bit of free space at the top, and that space is filled mostly with the cabling coming out of the PSU.
Feeling the various components: Top of the GPU and the Northbridge heatsink feel pretty "hot." It's cool enough that I can put my hand on there but and hold it there, without it hurting, but it is definately not "cool." The GPU heatsink is surrounded by plastic, which is cool to the touch. The side of the CPU heatsink is also pretty cool. Other cards, and all of the drives, are very cool (surprised me actually). The RAM was about as warm as the Northbridge heatsink, but it wasn't as hot as the top of the GPU. Note that this is after my case has been closed up for quite a while and at "idle" for the most part (occasional chatting and web browsing otherwise). Temps (after the case being opened for a few min now) are:
CPU: 105 f
Case: 102 f
The computer is stable right now, everything is working fine. If I went off and did some gaming with it closed (which I will try to do now) things should start to lock up. I will note the two temperatures at that point. What I'm still wondering is if there is an easy (and inexpensive) way of putting a temp probe or something on some notable pieces of hardware (i.e. GPU, Northbridge heatsink, CPU Heatsink, and drives).
~ Jonny
Do you guys think I would benefit from having a fan on the side plexiglass window?
Putting the fan on the top: It wouldnt work very well with this case, as there is only a tiny bit of free space at the top, and that space is filled mostly with the cabling coming out of the PSU.
Feeling the various components: Top of the GPU and the Northbridge heatsink feel pretty "hot." It's cool enough that I can put my hand on there but and hold it there, without it hurting, but it is definately not "cool." The GPU heatsink is surrounded by plastic, which is cool to the touch. The side of the CPU heatsink is also pretty cool. Other cards, and all of the drives, are very cool (surprised me actually). The RAM was about as warm as the Northbridge heatsink, but it wasn't as hot as the top of the GPU. Note that this is after my case has been closed up for quite a while and at "idle" for the most part (occasional chatting and web browsing otherwise). Temps (after the case being opened for a few min now) are:
CPU: 105 f
Case: 102 f
The computer is stable right now, everything is working fine. If I went off and did some gaming with it closed (which I will try to do now) things should start to lock up. I will note the two temperatures at that point. What I'm still wondering is if there is an easy (and inexpensive) way of putting a temp probe or something on some notable pieces of hardware (i.e. GPU, Northbridge heatsink, CPU Heatsink, and drives).
~ Jonny
SOLUTION
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For temperature monitoring, try Everest: http://www.lavalys.com/products/download.php?pid=1&lang=en&pageid=3
It will let you generate sensor reports of the cpu, motherboard and hard drives.
It will let you generate sensor reports of the cpu, motherboard and hard drives.
ASKER
Callandor - thanks for the link, I'm going to check it out.
Sorry I didn't get back to this thread sooner, I didn't have access to this email address for a while to tell you the truth. Since I've been here, I have only had an overheating problem once, it just restarted randomly and was fine after I left the case open for a little while. Of course when I get back home and do some gaming the problem will again arise, but at least I am sure that for now things seem to be ok, and I can use my computer for what I really need it for - schoolwork. Thanks for everyone's help, if I ever reopen this topic I will be sure to post a link here, in case you would like to participate in that thread as well.
I will leave a note here explaining my dividing of points....
Sorry I didn't get back to this thread sooner, I didn't have access to this email address for a while to tell you the truth. Since I've been here, I have only had an overheating problem once, it just restarted randomly and was fine after I left the case open for a little while. Of course when I get back home and do some gaming the problem will again arise, but at least I am sure that for now things seem to be ok, and I can use my computer for what I really need it for - schoolwork. Thanks for everyone's help, if I ever reopen this topic I will be sure to post a link here, in case you would like to participate in that thread as well.
I will leave a note here explaining my dividing of points....
ASKER
BTW in response to the latest suggestions:
Callandor - I just got a new power supply as described earlier in the thread. It's an OCZ modstream and I'm very happy with it, and I have noticed a lower overall case tempurature with this psu. i.e. Right now according to my Asus Utility I'm running at 105 for CPU and 93 for MB.
I *do* think that Callandor's and Smiffy's suggestions that it might just be my case seems to be the real answer here. I did get a cheapo case when I built it, mostly because I didn't know very much about how important cooling was when I built this 2 years ago. This summer I will probably get a new case, if for no reason other then to build a test machine using all of my old parts (I have everything except for ram and a CPU).
I will definately check out the last temp monitoring link and see if I get anything different then my Asus Utility. Again, I think you all for your help, it's one of those strange problems that never really get solved but I sure learned a lot through this whole thing!
Take care guys :o)
Callandor - I just got a new power supply as described earlier in the thread. It's an OCZ modstream and I'm very happy with it, and I have noticed a lower overall case tempurature with this psu. i.e. Right now according to my Asus Utility I'm running at 105 for CPU and 93 for MB.
I *do* think that Callandor's and Smiffy's suggestions that it might just be my case seems to be the real answer here. I did get a cheapo case when I built it, mostly because I didn't know very much about how important cooling was when I built this 2 years ago. This summer I will probably get a new case, if for no reason other then to build a test machine using all of my old parts (I have everything except for ram and a CPU).
I will definately check out the last temp monitoring link and see if I get anything different then my Asus Utility. Again, I think you all for your help, it's one of those strange problems that never really get solved but I sure learned a lot through this whole thing!
Take care guys :o)
Thanks Johny !
Hope your cooling problems are solved soon :)
Walletless
Hope your cooling problems are solved soon :)
Walletless
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