Let's say that it isn't logged. In what ways does this protect you and in what ways does it not? How could someone go about intercepting your pin to pin messages?
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Want confirmation that Blackberry Pin to Pin w/o BES is plain text only
I have seen a couple web pages that state pin to pin communication without BES is plain text only. I have also seen comments that RIM does not log communications that occur via pin to pin. On the contrary I have heard that pin to pin is great for companies with sensitive data. My question is what is the truth here and is there a place Blackberry itself has shed light on these questions?
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Answers
When you use BES then, you can choose whether or not to generate logs? Are there any laws regarding complaincy and maintaining logs when using BES or is a company legally allowed to not log their pin to pins and maintain privacy in this manner? When using BES your pin to pins are still going through RIM. Even though they wouldn't be able to decrypt them could they not still maintain a record that you were sending messages and could you not be asked to reveal encrypted messages in the future?
When you use BES then, you can choose whether or not to generate logs?
YES
Are there any laws regarding complaincy and maintaining logs when using BES or is a company legally allowed to not log their pin to pins and maintain privacy in this manner?
That is a very open question. It depends on your local laws and your compliance regime. If you were required to log all electronic transactions in your industry and you are making use of this type of traffic to communicate and transact business then yes you must log the traffic. Ultimately you would have to ask your compliance officer or lawyer.
When using BES your pin to pins are still going through RIM. Even though they wouldn't be able to decrypt them could they not still maintain a record that you were sending messages and could you not be asked to reveal encrypted messages in the future?
In short yes they could.
Pin to pin messages use a public-shared encryption key. While the data is encrypted, every blackberry can decode it (by default).
However from your BES you can generate a private encryption key that is wirelessly deployed to only devices connected to your BES. This means that any messages sent to/from a device that ISN'T connected to your BES won't be able to decode it.
Thank you for all your helpful answers so far.
I was talking with a friend recently who was arguing that BES pin to pin conversations leave more of a trail then pin to pin without BES and that the only times companies have been subpoenaed based off pin to pins have been when using BES. What are your thoughts on this? Also I was reading a forum today that talks about RIM being a Canadian company and therefore even if a US agency wanted to get information on your pin to pins it would be difficult.
Also what would it take for someone to actually grab your "unencrypted" pin to pin messages and steal your proprietary information short of stealing your Blackberry? Have there actually been any reported cases of this occurring?
> BES pin to pin conversations leave more of a trail then pin to pin without BES
True as far as we know. We don't know for sure what logging RIM does
> only times companies have been subpoenaed based off pin to pins have been when using BES
May be true but a bit of a silly statistic as it's only the bigger companies that have this type of investigation and they would be far more likely to be using BES.
> Canadian company
Who will comply with USA legal restrictions/demands I suspect as so much of their business is in USA
> grab your "unencrypted" pin to pin messages
I would have thought any decent mobile wireless interception equipment
With the BES-generated PIN encryption key, you still don't send via the BES. Only the key is generated and deployed from the BES; all traffic still goes routes through the blackberry infrastructure.
The key is 3DES and isn't generated or stored on the blackberry infrastructure, unlike the public pin-to-pin key, so RIM won't be able to read the contents. They'll most likely log the details of sender/recipient etc.
All the legal interception of data laws/acts all apply to where the data is stored. This goes for pin-to-pin messaging and emails. As data isn't stored on the relay (it's considered a "staging" place) then it's exempt from having to provide access to the data in-transit. I've had that question asked of me by UK companies before, as they're worried that canadian officials could view their data.
I don't believe BES pin-to-pin conversations leave more of a trail. The only place they're logged are 1) on the device and 2) on the BES if it's turned on (which it isn't by default).
You WILL have a record of the key generation and distribution in your logs, but the actual key won't be logged there.
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by: technicasolutionsPosted on 2009-11-07 at 11:20:52ID: 25767657
pin to pin is plain text only and you only have hearsay that it is not logged. Even if we knew for sure it was not logged there is nothing to say it will not be in the future or is not now by a third party or national agency.
In short relying on plain text messaging for secure communications is a NO NO.