Question

USB hard-drive causes instant BSOD on insertion in laptop

Asked by: Havin_it

Hi,

I purchased a Freecom 80GB portable 2.5in USB hard-drive for our office, for backup purposes.  The device is supposed to be bus-powered, which was no problem for the desktop PC I initially set it up on. (By setup, I mean reformatting as a  TrueCrypt device-hosted volume -- probably not relevant but better be thorough eh?)

However, when I inserted the drive into my boss's laptop (spec supplied, running XP Pro) it bluescreened instantly reporting a power surge. There was a lot more info, but the drive itself was loudly bashing its head so I thought it best to power-off immediately.

At first I thought TrueCrypt was the problem (with the drive not being in a Windows-native format on first insertion) but when I then reformatted it to NTFS, the same thing happened.  Needless to say the boss was not up for further experimentation or analysis by this point, and took the laptop away until I could find out more.

When I inserted the drive on my own XP laptop, I got a "danger" notification (red cross; I've mostly seen this reported as a yellow-triangle balloon in reports) again telling me of a power-surge on the USB hub. Nevertheless the drive did not flip out and I was able to use it without issues. My laptop is a Toshiba Satellite A30, of a similar age to the boss's Dell, which dual-boots XP Home and Gentoo Linux (I'd already used the drive under Gentoo with no issues at all).  Its USB ports are USB 2.0, whereas the boss's are USB 1.1 (or possibly even 1.0) if this is relevant.  Also, it was on mains power whereas the boss's, at the time of the incident, was on battery.

Freecom don't ship an AC adapter with the drive, but will supply one free of charge if needed. Obviously however this makes it rather less attractive for my boss (its whole purpose was to be portable and fuss-free).  The drive was advertised as low-power, so if it needs more than the laptop can give, chances are most other models out there will have similar problems.

This is what I'd like to know:
1) Is it at all possible that this can be solved with software/firmware updates? (I found an epic thread on CNET forums about Dell laptops giving bogus power-surge balloons after XP SP2, but obviously this is a bit more serious than a balloon)
2) Is it likely that the drive might work on bus-power if the boss's laptop were on mains power?
3) Would removing other USB devices (she also had a USB mouse connected at the time) leave more power available for the drive?

Thanks for any info you can give.  I'd like to have my facts straight next time I see the boss, and within the return-period if she decides it's not worth keeping.

This Question has been solved and asker verified All Experts Exchange premium technology solutions are available to subscription members.

Subscribe now for full access to Experts Exchange and get

Instant Access to this Solution

  • Plus...
  • 30 Day FREE access, no risk, no obligation
  • Collaborate with the world's top tech experts
  • Unlimited access to our exclusive solution database
  • Never be left without tech help again

Subscribe Now

Asked On
2007-08-23 at 05:56:23ID22782011
Tags

usb

,

bsod

,

dell

,

power

Topics

PC Laptops

,

Windows XP Operating System

,

Computer Hard Drives

Participating Experts
5
Points
500
Comments
12

Trusted by hundreds of thousands everyday for fast, accurate and reliable tech support.

  • "The time we save is the biggest benefit of Experts Exchange to Warner Bros. What could take multiple guys 2 hours or more each to find is accessed in around 15 minutes on Experts Exchange." Mike Kapnisakis, Warner Bros.
  • "Our team likes having a resource that is more secure than just using Google and most experts using this service really know their stuff. It's nice to look here first versus using Google." Dayna Sellner, Lockheed Martin
  • "Anytime that I've been stumped with a problem, 9 out of 10 times Experts Exchange has either the accepted solution or an open discussion of the potential solution to the problem." Kenny Red, eBay Inc.

See what Experts Exchange can do for you.

Got a question?

We've got the answer.

Experts Exchange has been collecting answers to technology questions since 1996…3 million and counting! If you have a question, chances are we already have your answer.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Need individual assistance?

Our experts are ready to help.

If you can't find the exact answer you're looking for, ask our exclusive community of 50,000 experts. You’ll get a personalized answer from a trusted professional.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Want to learn from the best?

Read articles from industry experts.

Thousands of free tech tips, tricks, how-to’s and tutorials are available in our peer reviewed articles section. See for yourself how smart our experts are, no login required.

Screenshot of an Article

Working on a long term project?

Store your work and research.

Save solutions to your questions, answers you’ve discovered through searching plus helpful articles in your personal knowledgebase for easy future access.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Access the answers to your technology questions today.

Subscribe Now

30-day free trial. Register in 60 seconds.

What Makes Experts Exchange Unique?

Members of the expert community talk about why the experience at Experts Exchange is different than what you will find anywhere else.

Trusted by the world's most respected brands.

image of each brand's logo

Faithfully serving IT professionals since 1996.

Experts Exchange Logo

Try it out and discover for yourself.

Subscribe Now

30-day free trial. Register in 60 seconds.

Related Solutions

  1. Attraction Pages - Search Engines
    I have heard many speak about attraction pages - such as TrafficPower.com It appears that they generate an html page that the search engine spiders, yet when you click on the link in the search engine you actually go to a "different" page I realize that some c...
  2. BSOD
    Hi All, My system will get BSOD once every 2 weeks, I got the DMP file below: Microsoft (R) Windows Debugger Version 6.5.0003.7 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Loading Dump File [D:\Troubleshooting\Penny\Minidump\Mini072805-01.dmp] Mi...
  3. Simple Instant Backup in Native Format
    Can anyone suggest a simple, i.e., no disk imaging etc. or other "bells & whistles," that only does one thing: instant backup of selected folders-My Docs, Word, Excel etc. when you save automatically save the file it creates an additional copy to an external har...
  4. Chronic BSOD (Blue Screen of Death)
    I have a custom made PC and here are the basic specs: Mobo: EVGA nForce 680i SLI CPU: Intel Core Duo 2 E6700 RAM: 2GB OCZ Model No. OCZ2N10662GK The OS sits on a RAID 0 and the RAID controller is built-in the mobo. I have attached the mobo spec for detail review if n...

Free Tech Articles

  1. WARNING: 5 Reasons why you should NEVER fix a computer for free.
    It is in our nature to love the puzzle. We are obsessed. The lot of us. We love puzzles. We love the challenge. We thrive on finding the answer. We hate disarray. It bothers us deep in our soul. W...
  2. SCCM OSD Basic troubleshooting
    SCCM 2007 OSD is a fantastic way to deploy operating systems, however, like most things SCCM issues can sometimes be difficult to resolve due to the sheer volume of logs to sift through and the dispe...
  3. Migrate Small Business Server 2003 to Exchange 2010 and Windows 2008 R2
    This guide is intended to provide step by step instructions on how to migrate from Small Business Server 2003 to Windows 2008 R2 with Exchange 2010. For this migration to work you will need the fo...
  4. Create a Win7 Gadget
    This article shows you how to create a simple "Gadget" -- a sort of mini-application supported by Windows 7 and Vista. Gadgets can be dropped anywhere on the desktop to provide instant information, ...
  5. Outlook continually prompting for username and password
    There have been a lot of questions recently regarding Outlook prompting for a username and password whilst using Exchange 2007. There are a few reasons why this would happen and I will try to cover t...
  6. Backup Exchange 2010 Information Store using Windows Backup
    There seems to be quite a lot of confusion around the ability to backup Exchange 2010 using the built in Windows Backup feature. This stems from the omission of this feature prior to Exchange 2007 s...

Cloud Class Webinars

  1. Avoiding Bugs in Microsoft Access
    Alison Balter takes and in-depth look at avoiding bugs in Access. In this webinar you will learn about using the immediate window to debug your applications, invoking the debugger, using breakpoints to troubleshoot, stepping through code, setting the next statement to execute, ...
  2. Top 10 Best New Features in Visio 2010
    Scott Helmers gives live demonstrations of the top 10 new features in Visio 2010. This webinar will teach you how to create compelling diagrams by adding shapes to the page with a single click, linking the shapes in a diagram to data in Excel (or SQL Server, or SharePoint), ...
  3. IT Consultant Business Secrets Revealed
    Michael Munger, Experts Exchange tech pro and IT consultant, pulls back the curtain on his very successful businesses and answers question on every IT consultant and business owner should know about. He shares secrets on what he did to solve the 5 most common problems in IT, ...
  4. Disaster Recovery and Business Continuity
    Quest CTO, Mike Billon, gives an overview of the steps involved in building a dunamic disaster recovery plan. Through case studies and an examination of software/hardware tooles for monitoring and testing, you'll gain a better understandin of where you are, where you want ...
  5. Organize Your Visio Diagrams with Containers and Lists
    Scott Helmers uses cross functional flowcharts, wireframe diagrams, data graphic legends and seating charts to teach you: how to ustilize all three new structured diagram components in Visio 2010, the best practices for organizeing shapes in previous version of Visio, how to organize ...
  6. How to Us Objects, Properties, Events and Methods in Microsoft Access
    Alison Dalter gives an in-depbth look at objects, properties, events and methods in Microsoft Access. In this webinar you will learn about using the object browser, referring to objects, working with properties and methods, working with object variables, understanding the ...

Join the Community

Give a Little. Get a Lot.

Join the community of experts here and help other tech pros by answering question in your area of expertise. You can earn FREE access to all Experts Exchange's premium features and resources.

Join the Community

Answers

 

by: btassurePosted on 2007-08-23 at 06:18:01ID: 19754004

If it the other USB devices are on the same root hub then they will be sharing the available power supply. USB hard drives often draw more current than they should anyway so this could be part of the problem. It is also possible that because you were on battery at the time that the mainboard could not supply enough power to the bus but if so it means that it is not performing to specification.
It might be worth returning it for a replacement and see if that is any better - it could be a device fault. Also worth updating the bios and the drivers on the machines that are giving you issues as they may not be responding to the requests for power properly.
Does the hard drive have a separate power switch? If so plug it in while turned off and turn it while it is connected to USB as this may spin it up in a different way or something.

 

by: ridPosted on 2007-08-23 at 07:57:49ID: 19754925

If your bosse's laptop bluescreens immediately upon connection of this drive, it's very likely to be a harware issue, in this case probably overload of the USB port(s). Especially so since there's an optical mouse involved as well.

As the situation is described, I'd be inclined to blame his laptop; it's an older model and the current capacity of the USB controller may be very close to or below par. You could of course boot it from Knoppix and try the external drive, just to eliminate suspicion of a windows/drivers issue.
/RID

 

by: Havin_itPosted on 2007-08-23 at 14:12:25ID: 19757830

Hi, thanks to you both for replying.  I forgot to mention that the drive continued to bash its head when I rebooted the laptop, before Windows began to boot.

The desktop PC also had a problem with refusing to boot when powered-on with the drive inserted.  I assumed this was because the necessary driver (USB Mass Storage) needed Windows to be loaded first, but could there be a connection?

 

by: ridPosted on 2007-08-23 at 14:18:39ID: 19757870

I do wonder if this drive is really OK. Sounds like a power issue (USB ports overloaded). Some of these drives come with an extra "USB" cable that is only to boost power; the cable ends in a small power plug that goes in the drive, so the drive is fed through both signal and extra cable. Was one of these included? If so, try it.
/RID

 

by: garycasePosted on 2007-08-24 at 00:55:12ID: 19760392

As you've discovered, "bus-powered" hard drives are NOT a good idea.   Their power requirements are at-or-above the 500ma maximum of the USB spec;  and (particularly with laptops) are OFTEN the cause of a "blown" USB port.

With a desktop, this can at least be overcome by an add-in card;  but with a laptop once you blow the USB port there's little you can do to restore USB functionality [you CAN use an ExpressCard or PCMCIA card add-in for USB;  but nevertheless it's better to never blow the port :-) ]

Bottom line:  Use an A/C adapter with the drive => or use the drive with a powered hub (which has its own A/C adapter).   In the latter case, the worst you could do is "blow" the hub ... and that's less likely, as the powered hubs generally have more than the specified power capability.

 

by: nobusPosted on 2007-08-24 at 02:13:19ID: 19760660

>>  1) Is it at all possible that this can be solved with software/firmware updates?  <<  i would say no
>>  2) Is it likely that the drive might work on bus-power if the boss's laptop were on mains power?  <<  there could be a difference, even if there should be none. So to this i would say no also

>>  3) Would removing other USB devices (she also had a USB mouse connected at the time) leave more power available for the drive?   <<   yes, as you may have read above.

and to support the above : usb powered disks are not a good idea . . use at your own risk

 

by: nobusPosted on 2007-08-24 at 02:14:04ID: 19760664

...or verify they stay well below the 2.5 W power consumption

 

by: Havin_itPosted on 2007-08-24 at 03:09:10ID: 19760873

Okay, thanks all. It sounds like my course of action should be:

1) See if I can get a replacement unit based on the non-booting-on-the-desktop-PC issue
2) Send off for a free power adapter for the drive (this should stop it sucking bus power, one would assume).

Sure wish I had done more research prior to this purchase, it hasn't done much for my rep in the workplace :(
Flash drives are probably a good bit less power-hungry, but there still isn't one big enough (or around the £50 budget) to hold the ~10GB and growing amount we have to backup. Oh welll....

 

by: btassurePosted on 2007-09-04 at 01:57:59ID: 19823851

Do you have very large files you need to move? Or is it 10GB of 1 MB files?
If it is lots of small ones grab an unpowered USB hub or two and a bunch of 2GB flash drives. Just spread out the files. It's a bit of hassle but significantly easier than dealing with dodgy hard drives and blown USB ports.

 

by: garycasePosted on 2007-09-04 at 02:25:35ID: 19823918

"... grab an unpowered USB hub or two ..." ==> NO !!  

If you want to use this approach (I don't recommend it) then use a POWERED hub.   Using an unpowered hub in this situation with several devices plugged into it is as bad (or worse) than using an unpowered drive.   Flash drives only draw around 125ma ==> but put 4 of them on a hub ("... a bunch of 2GB flash drives ...") and you'd be at the 500ma spec ... and add more (which "a bunch" might be) and you'd be over the spec and risk blowing your USB port !!

... and since you need power anyway, you may as well use a power adapter for the external drive and get all the storage you need in a single device :-)

 

by: Havin_itPosted on 2007-09-04 at 02:45:17ID: 19823969

Getting a pile of drives and a couple of hubs would be contrary to the ethos of the original decision, which was a more portable and fuss-free solution.  We previously were backing-up to a set of 6 CDs, which meant organising our file-hierarchy into <700MB chunks all the time (and I was fed up of the time the backups took). With a single drive we can go back to intuitive organisation of files/folders, and with a bit of scripting on my part the whole backup can be done in 1 click, so I can finally entrust the task back to the boss ;)

She still doesn't need to carry the AC adapter around every time she brings the drive in for backing-up, only when she needs to access the drive on her laptop (which in theory is only when the desktop PC blows up anyway).

Thanks to everyone for raising these various points, I will try to split points fairly among the most helpful.

 

by: dclivePosted on 2008-01-06 at 10:53:53ID: 20595064

Did you try debugging the memory dump file (instructions here: http://bluescreens.homeserver.com/BSOD) to see what the actual culprit was?

20120131-EE-VQP-002

3 Ways to Join

30-Day Free Trial

The Experts

98% positive feedback on 31,087 answers since March 2000. angeliii is a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional for his work with MS SQL Server & Develoment.

He has also proven his knowledge of Visual Basic Programming, PHP Scripting and Oracle Databases.

The Experts

97% positive feedback on 10,752 answers since July 2000. lrmoore has more than 18 years experience in the networking industry.

The six-time Mircosoft MVPs specialties include firewalls, virtual private networking, and network management.

Testimonials

"...and excellent source for support... Kind of like having your very own IT dept." Electriciansnet

Testimonials

"I was apprehensive at signing up at first. However... it has already made my life as an IT administrator much easier." JaCrews

Testimonials

"WOW! You guys have great, active, and knowledgeable people on here." moore50

Business Clients

Business Clients

In the Press

"If you’ve got a question... Experts Exchange can supply an answer.”

In the Press

"...an invaluable aid for both IT professionals and those who require tech support."

In the Press

"where IT professionals provide quick answers on just about any topic"

Business Account Plans

Loading Advertisement...