Hi Everyone:
I have a friend who thinks his cpu may be damaged as a result of the fan not working. The concern stems from several factors. First, he can not perform a fresh install of XP Pro onto his HDD without a lockup. The lockup occurs even if a different HDD is used. And, secondly, he mentioned the CPU fan has not been working for almost a year. This alarming fact makes me wonder if the processor itself has not been damaged as a result of overheating. Is there a way of determing if the processor has been damaged as a result of overheating under this difficult situation in which there is no OS loaded on the machine?
Any advice on this problem will certainly be appreciated. I look forward to reading everyone's thoughts.
Thank you
George
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Go to http://www.ultimatebootcd.
And use the CPU burn test on that :)
Depends on the CPU, older CPUs could work without an operating heaatsink because they didn't generate that much heat.
Quote:
" Is there a way of determing if the processor has been damaged as a result of overheating under this difficult situation in which there is no OS loaded on the machine?"
I assumed that you had replaced the heatsink and so answered the question as best I could with the information supplied
It's got to be a processor 500MHz or faster surely XP would be too slow on anything less.
Realisticlly your mate is going to require a new fan, he may as well get one since even if he replaces the processor he will still need one. Get the fan working,
then preferably tho' not essential replace the heatsink compound.
Try installing again.
and as sorah says ... how can some1 know the CPU fan is not working for a year and at the same time do nothing to fix it ?
If you ever get an OS installed and running, Prime95 will stress a cpu - if it passes that for hours, the cpu is probably ok. But you first have to be able to install an OS, which may be prevented by a problem in other hardware, like bad RAM. www.memtest86.com has a diagnostic that doesn't require an OS, so if it fails, you will know that you have at least one problem identified.
http://www.mersenne.org/fr
The fact that you said you tried a different HDD and it still wont complete a boot suggests that it is not a HDD problem, but it may be a HD controller problem, CD-ROM problem, XP disk problem, Power supply problem or a motherboard/RAM/CPU problem as you suggest. If the compuer was freezing before you formatted it, then there may be damage, although if it is a P4, there are built in underclocking feautres that will prevent damage. I have run P4's without any headsink whatsoever and the machine will boot for a few seconds and freeze, but after installing the heatsink and fan, there are no problems. If its an AMD then you have likely cooked it as their overheating protection is junk.
I would suggest:
1. Replace CPU Fan
2. Re-apply thermal grease between heatsink and cpu (note: too much is just as bad as not enough!)
3. Chcek you have enough power for your system, and its not the shitty 300W that came in your $40 case!
4. Download and burn a copy of http://www.memtest86.com/ (a bootable memory diagnostic program) and run a test, allowing the computer to do at least 5 passes. In my experience this program can generally eliminate a RAM/CPU/mobo problem as damage to either of the three will usually result in some memory errors. If it does a number of passes without errors, continue to 5, otherwise swap out RAM/CPU/mobo one at a time with known GOOD replacements (always try RAM first) until you can do a significant number of pass, then try XP load again.
<<would try new HDD here
5. NEW!! IDE cables.
6 Try another power suppy
5. Swap CD-ROM and/or XP DISK - cd-roms can appear to work fine but produce various errors including disk write erros, especially if sharing a channel with a HDD (not reccommended)
6. Swap out RAM/CPU/MOBO one at a time anyways, even if they pass memtest
This is generally the procedure I follow when at work (pc tech since grade 10) and will usually find the problem within the first few steps (60% of the time its RAM or HDD). Basic steps are to replace a component with known working ones and see if that fixes it until you get it running.
Pentium 400? Is it a slot processor? Most likely bloated capacitors.
Check the capacitors on your motherboard, they are electronic components that are cylindrical, usually black or green with a silver top and an X engraved sligntly in the top. They are 2-3cm high and about 1cm in diameter, but come in various sizes. There are typically 10-20 on a board, mostly located near the processor.
Here is an example of good ones:
http://www.hardware-one.co
Here is an example of bad oens:
http://www.fozzilinymoo.or
Capacitors should be perfectly flat on top, but in your generation of motherboard there is a common problem where they become "bloated" and the tops look "pushed up" and slightly sphereical in appearance.
You can remove the faulty ones and have them replace at an electronics or computer shop, but the board is likely damaged now from the un-regulated power coming from the faulty capacitors. Which means you need a new mobo, but if its a slot board you will have a hard time finding one.
So if the capictors are your problem, you are pretty much going to have to buy a new mobo/chip and probably ram.
Greg
I suppose it depnds on the heatsink but your pal may have got away without damaging a P400. I have run a K6-2 550 with a fairly decent heatsink and no fan without too much trouble (does warmer than I would be comfortable with for the long term tho')
Just a thought - is the reason he hasn't fixed the fan because it is so much quieter? You can get pretty quiet fans and if you run them at 7v then they will be whisper quiet (easily quieter than the PSU fans)
Last time my PC stopped at Verifying DMI pool data it was because my primary partition wasn't formatted.
I would suggest booting from a known good floppy and running fdisk.
Make sure the primary partition is set active. Exit fdisk.
Do a fresh reboot (don't think it's essential but worth doing anyway).
Format c: /s (/s adds the system files and makes the drive bootable)
Then boot from the XP disk (assuming it will)
Please bear in mind this will lose any data that is on the hard disk (tho' it does sound like your pal is doing a fresh install anyway)
I don't know how technical you want this - so please excuse me if this is too patronising.
The CPU requires a steady voltage to operate correctly (different voltages for differnt processors and speeds)
Each time a transistor on the cpu switches it draws a pulse of current from the PSU or the voltage regulators on the board.
The voltage regulators cannot predict these pulses of current and so normally the voltage would drop a little bit low for a short period (and I'm talking very short period) If the voltage becomes too low then the processor will get very upset and may even start making mistakes (which is when your computer will crash)
Capacitors are like litle reseviors for electricity, as the CPU demands pulses of current the current comes from the capacitors rather than the voltage regulator, this allows the voltage regulator to catch up with the processor shortly afterwards.
In effect the capacitors smooth out the voltage supplied to the CPU, if the capacitors have stopped functioning the cpu is unlikely to function correctly if at all (or worse if the caps have short circuited - the voltage regulator may have been destroyed)
Good article here:
http://electronics.howstuf
Brings back some horrible memories from my Electic Circuits courses.....
Any update on how you are making out?
Greg
Callandor posted the link, and it says it is free.
http://www.mersenne.org/fr
George,
You need to be able to get into Windows to use prime95, so it is no use to you. You need to use http://www.memtest86.com/ as I suggested above because it is a bootable cd, and does not require the HDD or any OS to test the components of the computer.
Greg
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by: sciwriterPosted on 2004-06-30 at 21:42:31ID: 11443247
SOme BIOSes have a built in test for the CPU temperature, under advanced, power, system monitor. Generally speaking, if the system still boots, the CPU is still working, but as it overheats, the system will freeze and nothing will happen. This will take few minutes with a heat sink and no fan.
So no, you will never have long enough to install and test the OS. The only answer is for him to replace the fan, and as long as the CPU runs and boots, it's still OK, until it dies -- kind of like people, I guess.