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02.14.2008 at 10:06AM PST, ID: 23163782
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4 post equipment rack and 2 post relay rack.  Terminate everything from the equipment rack into a patch panel?!

Tags: Dell / APC, Equipment/Relay rack cable termination?
In past companies I did most of the rack wiring, but never actually messed with the equipment in the equipment racks.  In my current place of employment, I get to do everything.

I have the following:

One(1) 4 post Dell equipment rack
One(1) 2 post relay rack.
Two(2) 24 port APC cat5e patch panels
Two(2) 24 port Gig-E switches.
I plan on purchasing Two(2) http://www.neatpatch.com/ units to go between each patch panel/switch.


The Patch Panels and GigE switches are all mounted in the 2 post relay rack, all my servers are mounted in the 4 post equipment rack, they are in an L configuration.  When I walk into our "server closet" the Dell equipment rack is directly in front of me, with the front door facing me.  Directly to my right, is the 2 post relay right, with its front facing my right side.  So I have to turn to my right to be facing the relay rack. I cannot get behind the 4 post Dell equipment rack(I can take the sides off), and I can barely get behind the 2 post relay rack. Hopefully this makes sense, and you can somewhat visualize my situation.

  Also, I have ZERO cable management between racks, and in each rack.  I want to buy TWO www.neatpatch.com units for the relay rack.

  What I am wondering is how to run the cables through the equipment rack, and to my relay rack.  Do I terminate all the cables coming from my servers/ups/remote access cards to the patch panels, then to the switches?  Any other recommendations to help me along the way, that might fall outside of this question are also greatly appreciated.
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Question Stats
Zone: Computer Hardware
Question Asked By: dcastellani
Solution Provided By: ShineOn
Participating Experts: 2
Solution Grade: A
Views: 14
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02.15.2008 at 12:45PM PST, ID: 20905692

Rank: Master

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02.15.2008 at 12:51PM PST, ID: 20905756

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02.15.2008 at 12:58PM PST, ID: 20905826

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02.15.2008 at 01:57PM PST, ID: 20906405

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02.20.2008 at 06:38PM PST, ID: 20944495

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02.21.2008 at 06:59AM PST, ID: 20948256

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02.15.2008 at 12:45PM PST, ID: 20905692

Rank: Master

I would run Cat5e/Cat6 patch cables directly from the equipment rack servers to the Gig-E switches, personally, but then again I wouldn't use the neatpatch organizers.  I'd go for standard cable-management loops and clips, mounted strategically around and between the switches and the patch panels, so you can easily manage and patch between the switch ports and the patch panel locations, and I'd use velcro straps to neaten up what comes out of the equipment rack to the relay rack.

Does that makes sense?

Anyway, that's what I'd do....
Accepted Solution
 
02.15.2008 at 12:51PM PST, ID: 20905756
Well the idea behind the neatpatch organizer was because not much changes when you are using patch panels, atleast it rarely does in my experience.  We arent moving equipment around much and since all the offices in the build would be terminated to the patch panels, nothing there would move much.

Honestly, I am really sold on the neat-patch organizers, ive used standard cable mangement and these just seem so much more simplified.

I appreciate your input, ShineOn and will take it into consideration when it comes time to complete this project.
 
02.15.2008 at 12:58PM PST, ID: 20905826

Rank: Master

Makes sense.  The other nice thing about the neatpach organizers is it maintains a proper bend radius, which is difficult to do with standard patch-management loops & clips, and is kind-of important :P when dealing with gigabit over copper...

I was thinking of how little space you described having, though.  Make sure the neatpatch units will fit in your relay rack without making it impossible to get at the equipment rack.
 
02.15.2008 at 01:57PM PST, ID: 20906405
Yeah, I tripple checked the spacing for the neat patch organizers, plenty of room for those.  


What I am curious about is wht you would go from the servers/ups/remote access cards in the equipment rack, directly into the switches?  Is that why you mentioned getting standard cable managment?  Is it a bad idea to terminate the cables coming from the equipment rack into a patch panel?  I have never really entertained the idea before I posted this question, and due to your extensive experience in the IT field, I am really curious how everyone else out there has done it, that you have come across along your travels.
 
02.20.2008 at 06:38PM PST, ID: 20944495
Your situation seems very tight, how do you install the cable on the back of the systems if you cannot access the back? There are many ways to do what you want to do, but I think it really boils down to two options.


----------
Options
----------

1. Patch directly from switch to equipment

Pros.  - Easy to setup, cheaper, no wasted rack space.
Cons. - Harder to manage in the long run, difficult to add new wires.

2. Install a new dedicated patch panel in each rack, mapping each port from the first rack to the second. Then you patch the equipment to the patch panels.

Pros.  - Easier to manage in the long run, you can plan for future growth by adding more ports initially.
Cons. - Costs more upfront, uses rack space on both racks.


--------------------------------
Tips on Using Neat-Patch
--------------------------------

The trick is, the Neat-Patch boxes don't have to be used for patching from a panel to a switch like they show on their website. The cover only blocks the front of the Neat-Patch box, there is a suitably large opening on each side of the Neat-Patch to allow many wires to enter.

You can use this opening with this process:
1. remove the Neat-Patch cover
2. route patch cords into the box from one side (you can use the openings on both sides if you the need extra capacity)
3. create a loop for excess slack
4. route each individual cord through one of "teeth" on the box to your ethernet switch
5. close the cover

You can you just have a few wires and an under-utilized patch panel you might be able to share a Neat-Patch with your patch panel, and switch. If you have many wires coming in this way, you should use a dedicated Neat-Patch box and ethernet switch. It all depends on how many of your ports you are utilizing.

Now take the group of wires emanating from the side opening on the Neat-Patch, and strap it to your vertical post on the 2-post rack. Now go all the way up, or all the way down the vertical post on your rack with your bundle, strapping every so often. Then repeat the opposite on your other 4-post rack wherever is convenient for you.

If you're going to do it this way, its a good idea leave an extra loop of wire for some additional length if you need to make a change (example your switch at the bottom of the rack died and you need to plug into another switch at the top). You can use another empty Neat-Patch for the purpose of hiding the extra loop. There are photos of this loop on the Neat-Patch website.


---------------------------------------
My Setup with Neat-Patch
---------------------------------------

I installed and manage a similar two rack system that includes 4-post rack (Rack-A) for equipment, and a 2-post rack (Rack-B) for networking which are side by side. I also use two of the Neat-Patch cable management systems, and they they work fantastic.

Unlike you, I have a small isle behind the racks that I can squeeze into. To connect the equipment in Rack-A to the network in Rack-B I did the following:

* bundled in sets of 8 wires tied together with a combination of zip ties and Velcro
* labeled the end of each wire with alpha-numeric label
* tied the smaller bundles together to create a larger bundle and ran the bundle from Rack-B to Rack-A
* secured the entire bundle to one of the vertical posts on Rack-B (there was a small depression in the I-beam post that was convenient to use)
* draped the bundle over the top of Rack-B horizontally and tied to the wall-mounted brace
* entered the hole on the top-rear corner of Rack-A (4-post), and routed the wire down a vertical cable guide.
* used the rear cable management arms from Dell to keep the wires in place and allow the systems to slide out on their rails
* all equipment wires patched directly into a switch
Assisted Solution
 
02.21.2008 at 06:59AM PST, ID: 20948256
Goban, thank you for such a neat and organized line of thought.

I can remove the sides to the Dell rack, so I can reach in and plug in equipment etc.  I can get to everything on the back from the side. It is obviously not the ideal situation to get to the back, but until management gives me a better area to move the equipment its all ive got.

I have no drop cieling to work with, or raised floors, so ill be running the wire between each rack via wire loop hooks on the walls.  They are just hooks attached to the walls with deep hook depth to hold a decent bundle of wires(probably 20 wires).  Ill run that along the top of the wall, between the 4 post equipment rack and the two post relay rack and come down at an angle into the relay rack.  Ive asked a few people I know in the industry and they basically agreed with you, if I really want to terminate the equipment into a patch panel, not to do it into the patch panel in the 2 post but in the top of the 4 post equipment rack.  Ill probably just run from the equipment rack, into the neat patch, and then into the switch as you and ShineOn have suggested.  Ill be labeling all the wires...

Any further though would be appreciated, but I am leaning towards this method...
 
 
02.21.2008 at 07:07AM PST, ID: 20948342
BTW, this is one of my first questions posted here on EE, and I already feel like EE is going to be such a fantastic resource for myself and my company, thanks to ShineOn and goban.

Thanks guys!
 
 
 
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