Hi Experts
I am looking to upgrade our network to gigabit throughout.
Currently - > 2 servers (with expectation to add 2 or 3 more next 12 months) into managed HP Procurve switch.
Home run cat5e to all workstations (about 20) and printers etc, from switch in local building.
3 x underground cat5e from switch to each of 3 other offices in remote building - just under 60 mtr cable run.
Each office has 10/100 switch.
These offices currently have about 12 workstations btween them with expected growth to 20 in the next 12 months.
System is W2000 Advanced Server with all XP Pro workstations (This will also be upgraded within next 12 months).
Proposed - > Upgrade HP Procurve to gigabit modules.
Upgrade all NICS to gigabit if not already (most are).
1 x fibre run between the 2 buildings and add a gigabit switch to serve all offices in remote building.
Budget is £1500 ($3000) for hardware:
(HP Gigabit modules, fibre cable, fibre convertors, gigabit switch).
Would anyone like to comment on this proposal - is fibre necessary, what type of fibre, what brand/type of hardware, etc etc.
Whilst we would love to install Cisco managed switches etc - our budget does not currently allow it.
Many thanks
Nick.
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It depends on the types of applications that are run on the workstations. Without knowing that, it would be hard to make a determination. What prompted the upgrade? Has network lag become an issue?
Keith is also correct to bring up failover and redundancy. Security can also be a concern in external cable runs.
The specific needs of your organization are going to dictate what should be done.
Thanks for replies experts.
The main reason for upgrade (now as opposed to original plan, when new servers and worstations are added) is down to our accounts program (Sage Financial Controller).
We are suffering from client hangs/freezes etc and the support staff at Sage have advised that we MUST run a gigabit network.
I personally believe there are other issues at work here, but until we do as they advise, we are getting very little in the way of further support - they keep coming back to network.
I am completely unfamiliar with optical cable in terms of suitability/application etc and would certainly love to hear more specific advice. I do understand that security is much improved as also is exposure to lightening/water ingress etc.
In light of the above is fibre the preferred way to go?
I am shocked that Sage would tell you that you need 1GB. Personally, I don't buy it. I would test it first. I'd hate for you to upgrade all the offices only to contnue to experience the hangs/delays.
As for fibre, it's pretty great stuff. But with that budget and no experience, I'd probably go with copper.
My suggestion would be to have fibre professionally run, and that would be a lot more.
Point being that you don't move that much forward.
Lets say you have 10 workstations all at 1GB - thats 10Gb hitting the lines to the switch and 1GB capability on the server unless you team nics etc to serve that 10Gb. Bottom line you have increased the server/workstations together so the same bottlenecks that were there previously are still there. This means that the clients are still waiting for the server to respond exactly the same amount of time. Uplift the servers to Gb plus any power users machines for sure but everything? - Can't see the benefit.
Keith - point taken. Good advice thanks.
Adam - we would still like to consider fibre.
I have been looking at having a fibre pre-terminated to the correct length.
The underground run would be simple enough to pull through.
Would there still be issues with doing it ourselves?
Which type of multicore would be suitable?
I've read that although 62.5/125 is more wipspread in use, 50/125 is better suited to gigabit networks.
>We are suffering from client hangs/freezes etc and the support staff at
>Sage have advised that we MUST run a gigabit network.
What a bunch of clowns.
>I personally believe there are other issues at work here, but until
>we do as they advise, we are getting very little in the way of
>further support - they keep coming back to network.
Do what the rest of us do when tech support monkeys ask us to do ridiculous things before they can help - lie and say you did the whatever silly thing they are trying to make you do ;-)
Personally, if they're going to lie to you (ie "It must be that you don't have a gigabit network") you should have no problems lying right back to them (ie "OK, I upgraded to gigabit and I still have the same problems").
If you can't bring yourself to lie to them, call their pre-sales support line and ask about the specific requirements to use their product, and then when they don't mention a gigabit network (maybe even ask about using 10/100Mb specifically to make sure - ie "Umm, we are using are pure 10/100 switched network - will that be OK?") and then smack the tech support monkey over the head with a recording of that call.
Just my $.02
Cheers,
-Jon
P.S. Maybe he's thinking you want to run "SAGE: Scalable Adaptive Graphics Environment", which *does* seem to need a gigabit network (http://www.evl.uic.edu/co
Yeah, if its pre-fabbed and terminated and all you have to do is pull it, then it would seem pretty straightforward. I just don't like the idea of telling someone to implement a technology they are not familiar with on a tight budget.
I have to agree with the others, though, that your network speed is probably not the issue. It seems like a lot of work just to find out there is no improvement. You should be able to determine if the problem is bandwidth pretty easily without all this stuff. If you have managed switches, they might have usage statistics. If not, you can always use a protocol analyzer on the server. Windows has one built in called Network Monitor. You can also test the resource usage on the server and workstations with performance monitor.
We do feel pretty sure that there are other issues afoot here too.
We actually have some test software specifically to monitor Sage (its a simple login test that runs from any workstation where required to compare against in-program delays - or on a laptop for mobile use around various points of the network).
This software is identifying the similar delays wherever it is on the network - even at the main switch - there are slightly longer delays on some parts though.
All this does point to other issues.
However, it was our intention to gigabit the network anyway, this just brings it forward.
If indeed it has no impact on Sage, 1/ at least we can go back to them and 2/ we should see an overall performance increase on the network.
Hey Jon, thought you'd retired :) Long time no hear.
Nick, the move to fibre and gigabit connectivity is sound and a good investment anyway. I woulds also reiterate my point of earlier though - if you upgrade the servers and the workstations to gigabit then you haven't changed the statistics. Teaming the cards on the server to get 2Gb full duplex will help (if yiou are not already teaming) but gigbait on the servers and the underlying infrastructure will certainly up the performance seen by the users.
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by: keith_alabasterPosted on 2007-05-07 at 07:16:24ID: 19042758
Multi core cable between the offices to give failover if a cable/core fails.
Personally I would leave the workstations at 100Mb but put the servers on at Gb.
Cisco is the obvious choice of hardware (for me) but hp/Dell is OK.