benjilafouine
asked on
Proliant ML350 G6 with Back-UPS 1500 VA compatibility issue
Hi,
I just purchased a Proliant ML350 G6 for my company with 6 hard drives, one CPU and 8 GB RAM.
I connected to a APC Back-UPS 1500VA (BR1500LCD) and checked the power usage on the UPS: it is about 50 watt (power supply has 865 watts available) and power supply of the Proliant is 750 watts (bt it is nearly using 50 watts with the current configuration).
Problem is if I close the electrical circuit for this UPS, the server powers off instantly. I validated that it does not consume too much power (5% of the UPS capacity), I validated that the UPS is functionning well with another server (a no-name server with a 750w PSU), did testing with APC software and no faults whatsoever were found. I also tested the Proliant on a 1300 VA UPS (another Back-UPS) with the same result.
So I opened a case with HP who told me that it should work so they are sending me a new power supply to test.
However, I did some research on Google and found the following links:
http://forums13.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?admit=109447627+1266102039991+28353475&threadId=1393340
According to this discussion, there would be problems with Back-UPS and Proliant ML350 but another link suggests that a power supply replacement from HP fixed the problem:
http://forums13.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?admit=109447627+1266163457320+28353475&threadId=1187865
In the mean time, I started looking at a APC Smart-UPS, especially models SUA1500 or SMT1500. I also spoke to a friend of mine (an electrical engineer) who told me (after checking on the APC website ) that the Smart-UPS didn't seem to be that different from a Back-UPS in the way it works (his explanation litterally: these UPS are using the main electricity source until the UPS is triggered and then they switch to the battery).
So now I am looking at a Powerware Eaton unit that is the best thing that can be purchased in terms of UPS:
http://powerquality.eaton.com/PW9130L1500T-XL.aspx?CX=5
As you can see, the Powerware is very expensive but it filters the electricity as it goes in the battery, uses the battery all the time to feed the server and in case of a power failure, there is no lag time for the UPS to switch to the battery mode (since it is always feeding from the battery even when there is electricity). It would have the benefit of working correctly with our gasoline generator (not working with Back-UPS and not tested with Smart-UPS).
In the mean time, I cannot deploy my server into production on Monday as a simple electrical glitch will make it go off.
I need a solution for this.
Anyone can help me?
Thanks.
Benji
I just purchased a Proliant ML350 G6 for my company with 6 hard drives, one CPU and 8 GB RAM.
I connected to a APC Back-UPS 1500VA (BR1500LCD) and checked the power usage on the UPS: it is about 50 watt (power supply has 865 watts available) and power supply of the Proliant is 750 watts (bt it is nearly using 50 watts with the current configuration).
Problem is if I close the electrical circuit for this UPS, the server powers off instantly. I validated that it does not consume too much power (5% of the UPS capacity), I validated that the UPS is functionning well with another server (a no-name server with a 750w PSU), did testing with APC software and no faults whatsoever were found. I also tested the Proliant on a 1300 VA UPS (another Back-UPS) with the same result.
So I opened a case with HP who told me that it should work so they are sending me a new power supply to test.
However, I did some research on Google and found the following links:
http://forums13.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?admit=109447627+1266102039991+28353475&threadId=1393340
According to this discussion, there would be problems with Back-UPS and Proliant ML350 but another link suggests that a power supply replacement from HP fixed the problem:
http://forums13.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?admit=109447627+1266163457320+28353475&threadId=1187865
In the mean time, I started looking at a APC Smart-UPS, especially models SUA1500 or SMT1500. I also spoke to a friend of mine (an electrical engineer) who told me (after checking on the APC website ) that the Smart-UPS didn't seem to be that different from a Back-UPS in the way it works (his explanation litterally: these UPS are using the main electricity source until the UPS is triggered and then they switch to the battery).
So now I am looking at a Powerware Eaton unit that is the best thing that can be purchased in terms of UPS:
http://powerquality.eaton.com/PW9130L1500T-XL.aspx?CX=5
As you can see, the Powerware is very expensive but it filters the electricity as it goes in the battery, uses the battery all the time to feed the server and in case of a power failure, there is no lag time for the UPS to switch to the battery mode (since it is always feeding from the battery even when there is electricity). It would have the benefit of working correctly with our gasoline generator (not working with Back-UPS and not tested with Smart-UPS).
In the mean time, I cannot deploy my server into production on Monday as a simple electrical glitch will make it go off.
I need a solution for this.
Anyone can help me?
Thanks.
Benji
How old is the UPS?
When did the batteries get changed?
Have you installed the APC powerchute software onto the server?
I have an ML350 G6 and APC SUA1500 attached without any problems, so your hardware combination should be fine.
Have you tried the UPS on a PC? Do you get the same results?
If you do, that points to the UPS being unwell in my mind.
When did the batteries get changed?
Have you installed the APC powerchute software onto the server?
I have an ML350 G6 and APC SUA1500 attached without any problems, so your hardware combination should be fine.
Have you tried the UPS on a PC? Do you get the same results?
If you do, that points to the UPS being unwell in my mind.
ASKER
Brand new UPS but not SUA1500. I have a Back-UPS (BR1500LCD), which is a lower quality model than the SUA1500 (a Smart-UPS).
Tested on several servers (but not Proliant) and working perfectly.
Powerchute installed.
Self test successful (on a different server).
Load of 10% on my UPS with the Proliant connected.
Hp thinks it's pointing to the Power Supply inside the server. They are sending in another one but I am not convinced.
Benji.
Tested on several servers (but not Proliant) and working perfectly.
Powerchute installed.
Self test successful (on a different server).
Load of 10% on my UPS with the Proliant connected.
Hp thinks it's pointing to the Power Supply inside the server. They are sending in another one but I am not convinced.
Benji.
I have seen several issues with HP servers that a replacement power supply has resolved. Not exactly sure what is happening, but once replaced, the problems go away.
Can't see a Back-UPS being a problem with the ML350 G6.
Presumably you have plugged the server into one of the UPS sockets and not just one of the surge protected sockets only (2 surge only - 6 UPS protected)? Would be lovely if it was that simple ; )
Can't see a Back-UPS being a problem with the ML350 G6.
Presumably you have plugged the server into one of the UPS sockets and not just one of the surge protected sockets only (2 surge only - 6 UPS protected)? Would be lovely if it was that simple ; )
ASKER
Not simple like that... Only that one server connected to the UPS... not even the monitor... and in the good socket...
Twas just a long-shot!
The fact that it works with other computers does point towards a hardware problem with the server and the Power Supply would appear to be the most obvious.
I guess it is just a case of sit and wait for the replacement power supply tomorrow and see what happens.
Can't think of anything else to suggest I'm afraid.
The fact that it works with other computers does point towards a hardware problem with the server and the Power Supply would appear to be the most obvious.
I guess it is just a case of sit and wait for the replacement power supply tomorrow and see what happens.
Can't think of anything else to suggest I'm afraid.
ASKER
Some people think that these Proliant Power Supplies are a lot more sophisticated than generic ones in other servers. This is why I am questionning it so much.
They are large and sophisticated but I am no Electrical engineer. I would buy HP over and above any other server on the market today.
I have seen a few replaced in my time and one was causing the Fans to spin madly (and noisily). Soon as the power supply was changed, the fans returned to nromal. had another blow on the day of installation (thankfully had installed redundant fans - so it was not a show-stopper).
I have seen a few replaced in my time and one was causing the Fans to spin madly (and noisily). Soon as the power supply was changed, the fans returned to nromal. had another blow on the day of installation (thankfully had installed redundant fans - so it was not a show-stopper).
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Nice - I am sure an electrician might have worked that one out! ; )
To close the question - just accept one (or more) comments as the solution (you can accept your own comment too) and this will close it down.
I guess it pays to use the APC UPS Selector before buying a UPS for a server!
To close the question - just accept one (or more) comments as the solution (you can accept your own comment too) and this will close it down.
I guess it pays to use the APC UPS Selector before buying a UPS for a server!
ASKER
To Alan:
You mention having a Proliant G6 with a APC SUA1500 UPS. Have you done all the testing with this combination, meaning, pulling the plug on the UPS (or shutting down the circuit breaker) and see if the server remained on?
Benji
You mention having a Proliant G6 with a APC SUA1500 UPS. Have you done all the testing with this combination, meaning, pulling the plug on the UPS (or shutting down the circuit breaker) and see if the server remained on?
Benji
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ASKER
OK, but still, the SUA750XLi is not an "online" UPS, It is a Smart-UPS but with an extended run (not sure what it means.
So it seems that the Proliant G6 will work with "non online" batteries that produce a pure sine wave.
Thanks for th einfo.
Benji
So it seems that the Proliant G6 will work with "non online" batteries that produce a pure sine wave.
Thanks for th einfo.
Benji
What do you mean by not an 'online' UPS. The server is fed all the time by the batteries and the batteries are fed by the power. If the power is cut, the server is not affected.
ASKER
Well,
If you look on the APC website, your UPS is in the Smart-UPS section, not in the Smart-UPS Online section.
Your UPS works like this:
1. When running with the power utility available, it filters the incoming electricity and pass it directly to your server.
2. When a power failure occurs (or a surge or a brownout), your UPS switches to the battery in a fraction of a second (I am happy to hear that it works with a G6 because I need another battery for a client of mine).
3. When power comes back on, your UPS switches your server back to the utility power.
It is to notice that this kind of UPS always cleans up the electricity to that you obtain a "pure sine wave" (electrical).
An Online UPS works differently:
1. It receives power from the utility.
2. It filters the power, converts it to DC power and send it to the battery.
3. Another filters draws the DC power from the battery and converts it again to an AC signal with pure sine wave.
4. The filter feeds the server so that the server never receives power directly from the utility.
5. When power goes down or up, there is absolutely no lag time for the server and it keeps receiving power from the power as it was before the power failure occur.
This type of UPS is referred to as an "online" UPS or a AC-DC-DC-AC UPS.
I installed an online UPS for my server, which are the most expensive batteries on the market but I am happy to hear that an "intermediary" battery producing pure sine wave is also working with a Proliant G6.
A word about the cheaper UPSes (e.g. APC BackUPS)
Don't try the lower quality batteries which are often designated as "square waves" batteries as the wave output is not "clean" enough for a G6. These UPSes will work on PCs and cheap servers unless a new PFC type power supply is installed (I've seen discussions on the web about new power supplies having problems with APC Back-UPS but I haven't tested that by myself).
This is all the extent of my knowledge wits UPS now (well, there are some huge UPSes that require a power reducer/converter but we are talking batteries working with 240 or 600 volts).
Benji.
If you look on the APC website, your UPS is in the Smart-UPS section, not in the Smart-UPS Online section.
Your UPS works like this:
1. When running with the power utility available, it filters the incoming electricity and pass it directly to your server.
2. When a power failure occurs (or a surge or a brownout), your UPS switches to the battery in a fraction of a second (I am happy to hear that it works with a G6 because I need another battery for a client of mine).
3. When power comes back on, your UPS switches your server back to the utility power.
It is to notice that this kind of UPS always cleans up the electricity to that you obtain a "pure sine wave" (electrical).
An Online UPS works differently:
1. It receives power from the utility.
2. It filters the power, converts it to DC power and send it to the battery.
3. Another filters draws the DC power from the battery and converts it again to an AC signal with pure sine wave.
4. The filter feeds the server so that the server never receives power directly from the utility.
5. When power goes down or up, there is absolutely no lag time for the server and it keeps receiving power from the power as it was before the power failure occur.
This type of UPS is referred to as an "online" UPS or a AC-DC-DC-AC UPS.
I installed an online UPS for my server, which are the most expensive batteries on the market but I am happy to hear that an "intermediary" battery producing pure sine wave is also working with a Proliant G6.
A word about the cheaper UPSes (e.g. APC BackUPS)
Don't try the lower quality batteries which are often designated as "square waves" batteries as the wave output is not "clean" enough for a G6. These UPSes will work on PCs and cheap servers unless a new PFC type power supply is installed (I've seen discussions on the web about new power supplies having problems with APC Back-UPS but I haven't tested that by myself).
This is all the extent of my knowledge wits UPS now (well, there are some huge UPSes that require a power reducer/converter but we are talking batteries working with 240 or 600 volts).
Benji.
Aha - thanks for that - always good to learn something new.
I have the same issue as everyone in this thread I have spoken to HP got the same old line need a 2000va UPS. Supposedly to stop and overload from inrush current.
A better solution is to use a "online" ups
It's on the battery all the time, they are more expensive but not by to much
The funny thing is the HP tech said our HP ups's will work just fine.
Guess who makes HP ups's? Eaton guess what I was using, a Eaton powerware 5115 1500va
A better solution is to use a "online" ups
It's on the battery all the time, they are more expensive but not by to much
The funny thing is the HP tech said our HP ups's will work just fine.
Guess who makes HP ups's? Eaton guess what I was using, a Eaton powerware 5115 1500va
ASKER
There was an article on a tech magazine not long ago stating that "online" UPS would eventually take over all other UPS. Even modern PC power supplies may have that requirement in a near future because these PSU can save energy.
I just happened to be one of the few first ones to experiment the issue.
Benoit
I just happened to be one of the few first ones to experiment the issue.
Benoit
had same problem with 2 G6 and solved by using 10 years old APC 1000AV UPS which is working fine but new tover/rack APC Smart UPS dont !
ASKER