What Tape Unit should I use ?

I have an HP Proliant 350, and it's true, I have a USB1 port.

Also, I noticed in the site the integration with BrightStor is very good, and that's the software I'm using for backups.

Thanks.  Let's see If I receive more suggestions before awarding the points.

RG

Oh... yeah.... using Norton Ghost with our SATA drives, we now backup our servers at 1 Gbyte/minute !!!

Then, what would be the advantage of using a DLT or LTO technology ?  Why are they so expensive?

RG

You probably have a typo and meant you are currently using an AIT tape, and not an ATI. If I were you I'd get a new AIT but with higher capacity, so you can still use the old tapes and restore them if necessary. I suggest an AIT 3 for 100GB or AIT 4 for 200.

That's my point... There *is no* advantage of using DLT or LTO technology...

Using external (or internal cartridge) drives as removal media makes a lot more sense than any tape technology.   It can beat them all with regard to: Price, Capacity, and Speed.

We even switch from Backup Exec to the built-in Window's NTBACKUP program...

Jan:

Thanks for your comments. Even though we are a small company I am very concern about security. We are doing exactly the procedure you mentioned.  We are saving one week offsite and keeping one week in the office.  Unfortunately, the offsite location is secure but not temperature & humidity controlled.

And yes, the Server Room is looked with a combination key, so it is very unlikely somebody will unplug the USB drive in the middle of the night.  However, that is a valid point and will take it into account.

RG

?!?  Someone can eject the tape just as easy as they can unplug a USB device....
DLT and other types of tapes have the advantage of huge autoloader libraries with multiple drives that can store can backup and store hundreds and hundreds of gigs and backup a couple hundred gig in one night to multiple tapes.  So only really advantagous to large companies, no benefit to small companies any more over the REV drive.  Both REV and tape have the advantage of being small and easy to carry and entire week offsite, as compared to carrying multiple external hard drives off site (1 is bigger than 5 REV disks).  Also, While tapes are obviously the best in this category, a REV disk in it's plastic case will survive a drop MANY MANY more times that an external hard drive will.

Also, not using a USB device is like saying don't use a external SCSI device, which is every autoloader in every medium/large size business in the world.

As one of the final comments,  Can somebody suggest how to prevent Electromagnetic Interference in the tapes or hard disks drives ?

I know it's complicated, but I am assuming there should be inexpensive solutions.

RG

We use the zip-lock anti-static bags for both EMP and mosture proctection (and in a fire-proof vault)

http://www.uline.com/Browse_Listing_52.asp?desc=Static+Shielding+Bags+%2D+Reclosable

Apples to Apples from PC Connection.  10 Cartridges for a 2 week rotation.

Internal IDE REV drive - $332.74.  35Gig Native, 70 compressed (User average, supposed to be more with packaged REV Backup Software).  Transfer Rate : 480 MBPS
2 x 4 Packs of Disks - $364
2 x Single Disks - $112.20

Cheapest 40/80GB DLT drive - Quantum $715.95.  Transfer Rate : 3MBPS  40 Gig Native/80 compressesd.  The 70 listed with the REV drive is real world statistics from users (REV says 90 Compressed)  you are not going to get much more than 70 with the DLT either.
10 Pack of the Cheapest tapes (which I would never use the cheapst, just don't trust them) $299.50

REV Total $809.24
DLT Total $1015.45 IF you go with the cheapest products made.  I personally don't reccomend 'Cheap' for you backups solution.  Mid-Range is fine.

Now think about if you server completely crashed and you had to have a full restore.  All users are down and cannot work. 30 Gig restore at 3MBps, or 30 Gig restore at 480MBPS?  (Of course you would never attain maximum speed with either, but you are talking 5-6 HOURS of down time during a restore added on compared to 1 hour or less)

Restore a 500 meg database that is at the end of a DLT tape - 20-40 minutes probably at least.  REV - 3 or 4 minutes.

And again, if you EVER outgrow your capacity, get ready to go spend $1500 for the larger tape drive and buy all new media also, or with the REV you will just be buy new cartridges in the future.

You will never get 90 GB on a media that has 35 GB native in the real world. The more likely capacity you'll get is somewhere around 50 GB, depending on what you are backing up. The "compressed" room which is advertised for that media is mainly a marketing gag to make things sound more attractive, and normally it will probably backing up a large text ascii file that is empty...

DLT is old and I wasn't looking at that when comparing media price. I was looking at things with higher capacity, like ultrium, and then the price per GB is much less than what you pay for REV's. I don't want to say they are no good, but I'm rather waiting for a next, higher capacity generation. Today 35 GB is just nothing.

I think Lonnus just want to make a point about the new technology available.  Carry on hard disk cartridges sounds like a very insteresting option for us, although I have to consider how much they will last and other requirements.

Everybody have made great contributions to this solution. I will split the points  but I may post some final questions once we decide which media we are going to use.

Thanks,

RG

I thought it was an article from PC Connections which is why I said the bit about wanting to sell REV drives. Not mean to criticise Lonnus personally, they are obviously not going to make any money on the sale whatever you buy.

lol... hey, I have ADD and am the best at what I do in my area... I just started trying to answer questions when I have a few minutes down time at work for the free membership.... I have installed 2 REVs at small companies, one internal IDE, 1 USB.  They work, and backup speeds were blistering compared to any tapes I have used in my 14 years on the job.  Closest I have seen and installed speedwise was an HP Optical Jukebox that cost $14000 7 years ago.  When it comes to downtime, speed is of the essence.  I could care less what anyone buys.  But the fact is #1, REV is the fastest, #2, if it currently fits your needs, it is very cost effective, #3, long term investment, as miniture drives progress, IOMega is going to incorporate this into their disks, and since it is IDE, you just need to buy new disks and not a new drive, unlike all tape systems.

Yes because of time restraints I didn't write my own review but quoted stuff I came to believe after what I saw happen in real life and also did a lot of research.  Yes I cut and pasted the MBPS and Mbps data right from PC Connection (BTW, that tape drive was the CHEAPEST, and ran at 3MBPS, yes could have spent more for the faster, newer drive)

To whoever had to mention compression and actually expalin it in detail, thanks, but if my post you quoted was above your head, I already explained that Iomega quotes their maximum space at 90Gig, and REAL WOLRD users get an average of 65-70Gig compressed.


Fact is, the ONLY reason I can see for using a tape type system for the same capacity is if you do not believe that IOMega will not hold true on their promise and release cartridges in the future that are larger and that can be used in the same drive.  They are basing promise on other companies making more dense 2.5" drives and technology making those drives have larger density and cost less.  Fact is that that is going to happen in the HD world.  If you don't think that IOMega released this procuct on that belief with such fanfare (as all the reviews say), then buy you tape and buy another when you run out of space.

At Max Data Transfer Rate 25.4 MB/sec native on the outside tracks for the REV-1 Vs 80MB/sec native for Ultrium-3 I can't see how you say it's fastest. But never mind, removable disks are fine for the small office even though they are unlikely to ever replace tape in the data centre due to the relatively low speed and low capacity.

Lonnus:

Now I have a dilemma.  REV comes in different models. USB, Firewire and SCSI.  I understand the maximun transfer rate in ideal conditions is:

USB 2.0 : 480 Mbps or 60 MBps  but fluctuates

Firewire: 400Mbps  (Steady)

SCSI ?

I think I don't have a USB 2 port in my server. It's a HP Proliant 350, and I don't think I have firewire ports either.  I have to either buy the card (USB or Firewire) or use SCSI.  What would you recommend ?

RG

You can get pci cards that have both, USB 2 and firewire. I'd get one of these, then you are flexible there. SCSI should already be builtin, a REV drive with either firewire or USB 2 or firewire would most likely be less expensive that SCSI, and with either you can easily connect it to other PC's too.

My two servers have external connections to SCSI.  My concern is the transfer rate... is SCSI faster than USB and firewire ?

RG

It doesn't matter.

I decided to go for the USB 2.0 external Unit.  I am going to add and internal PCI Card that will add USB 2.0 ports in the server.

Thanks everybody for the input.

RG

Yeah, USB is the best as the drive is slower than any of the interfaces, and in an emergency if you have a workstation with a drive that is failing, or need to format and reinstall a workstation or something, you can pull it off the server and backup the workstation with it.