Question

Application Delivery mechanisms in the age of bandwidth crunch

Asked by: fahim

Hi All

There has been some serious thought given these days to the single instance of an application being hosted in some part of the world while all the branch offices worldwide connect to this. Various technologies have evolved around this concept ranging from riverbed's to Citrix's and most recently even Microsoft has entered the fray with Softgrid.

Communication links always remain a bottleneck though. So , say for example, from within my main offices if I am accessing an application via thick/thin client's, the available bandwidth to me is a Gigabit NIC both on my workstations, intermediate switches and serverside but when I access it from a branch office, I instantly lose the luxury and talk about communication links ranging between 2Mb to 10Mb max.

Is there a new architecture standard being defined to develop applications that would work well in single instance model available from around the world without much of a performance degradation?

Are there any other latest technologies to facilitate such dispersed access scenarios apart from Citrix and WAN optimsiers?

Pls advise!!

This Question has been solved and asker verified All Experts Exchange premium technology solutions are available to subscription members.

Subscribe now for full access to Experts Exchange and get

Instant Access to this Solution

  • Plus...
  • 30 Day FREE access, no risk, no obligation
  • Collaborate with the world's top tech experts
  • Unlimited access to our exclusive solution database
  • Never be left without tech help again

Subscribe Now

Asked On
2009-08-12 at 06:21:44ID24646303
Tags

Application Delivery

Topics

Access Architecture/Design

,

Miscellaneous Networking

,

Remote Access Software

Participating Experts
3
Points
500
Comments
13

Trusted by hundreds of thousands everyday for fast, accurate and reliable tech support.

  • "The time we save is the biggest benefit of Experts Exchange to Warner Bros. What could take multiple guys 2 hours or more each to find is accessed in around 15 minutes on Experts Exchange." Mike Kapnisakis, Warner Bros.
  • "Our team likes having a resource that is more secure than just using Google and most experts using this service really know their stuff. It's nice to look here first versus using Google." Dayna Sellner, Lockheed Martin
  • "Anytime that I've been stumped with a problem, 9 out of 10 times Experts Exchange has either the accepted solution or an open discussion of the potential solution to the problem." Kenny Red, eBay Inc.

See what Experts Exchange can do for you.

Got a question?

We've got the answer.

Experts Exchange has been collecting answers to technology questions since 1996…3 million and counting! If you have a question, chances are we already have your answer.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Need individual assistance?

Our experts are ready to help.

If you can't find the exact answer you're looking for, ask our exclusive community of 50,000 experts. You’ll get a personalized answer from a trusted professional.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Want to learn from the best?

Read articles from industry experts.

Thousands of free tech tips, tricks, how-to’s and tutorials are available in our peer reviewed articles section. See for yourself how smart our experts are, no login required.

Screenshot of an Article

Working on a long term project?

Store your work and research.

Save solutions to your questions, answers you’ve discovered through searching plus helpful articles in your personal knowledgebase for easy future access.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Access the answers to your technology questions today.

Subscribe Now

30-day free trial. Register in 60 seconds.

What Makes Experts Exchange Unique?

Members of the expert community talk about why the experience at Experts Exchange is different than what you will find anywhere else.

Trusted by the world's most respected brands.

image of each brand's logo

Faithfully serving IT professionals since 1996.

Experts Exchange Logo

Try it out and discover for yourself.

Subscribe Now

30-day free trial. Register in 60 seconds.

Related Solutions

  1. Citrix Bandwidth
    Can anyone tell me how much bandwidth per connection is needed ( or suggested by citrix) to establish and maintain the connection over a frame-relay connection. I have a full t-1 with cisco routers running eigrp. I'm using Terminal Server 4.0 and Citrix 1.8. We hired a vendo...
  2. Gigabit Switch
    Hello I have 35 users connected to a 10/100 switch. I am about to buy a couple of Gigabit NAS boxes and will store all user and exchange files on one and perform a continuous backup to the other. I also need to backup the data from one of the NAS boxes to a tape drive on a ...
  3. gigabit
    i have a gigabit switch as follows server>>>>>>>>>> switch1 >>>>>>>>>>switch 2 >>>>>>>>>>switch 3 (in) (out) (in) (out) ...

Free Tech Articles

  1. WARNING: 5 Reasons why you should NEVER fix a computer for free.
    It is in our nature to love the puzzle. We are obsessed. The lot of us. We love puzzles. We love the challenge. We thrive on finding the answer. We hate disarray. It bothers us deep in our soul. W...
  2. SCCM OSD Basic troubleshooting
    SCCM 2007 OSD is a fantastic way to deploy operating systems, however, like most things SCCM issues can sometimes be difficult to resolve due to the sheer volume of logs to sift through and the dispe...
  3. Migrate Small Business Server 2003 to Exchange 2010 and Windows 2008 R2
    This guide is intended to provide step by step instructions on how to migrate from Small Business Server 2003 to Windows 2008 R2 with Exchange 2010. For this migration to work you will need the fo...
  4. Create a Win7 Gadget
    This article shows you how to create a simple "Gadget" -- a sort of mini-application supported by Windows 7 and Vista. Gadgets can be dropped anywhere on the desktop to provide instant information, ...
  5. Outlook continually prompting for username and password
    There have been a lot of questions recently regarding Outlook prompting for a username and password whilst using Exchange 2007. There are a few reasons why this would happen and I will try to cover t...
  6. Backup Exchange 2010 Information Store using Windows Backup
    There seems to be quite a lot of confusion around the ability to backup Exchange 2010 using the built in Windows Backup feature. This stems from the omission of this feature prior to Exchange 2007 s...

Cloud Class Webinars

  1. Avoiding Bugs in Microsoft Access
    Alison Balter takes and in-depth look at avoiding bugs in Access. In this webinar you will learn about using the immediate window to debug your applications, invoking the debugger, using breakpoints to troubleshoot, stepping through code, setting the next statement to execute, ...
  2. Top 10 Best New Features in Visio 2010
    Scott Helmers gives live demonstrations of the top 10 new features in Visio 2010. This webinar will teach you how to create compelling diagrams by adding shapes to the page with a single click, linking the shapes in a diagram to data in Excel (or SQL Server, or SharePoint), ...
  3. IT Consultant Business Secrets Revealed
    Michael Munger, Experts Exchange tech pro and IT consultant, pulls back the curtain on his very successful businesses and answers question on every IT consultant and business owner should know about. He shares secrets on what he did to solve the 5 most common problems in IT, ...
  4. Disaster Recovery and Business Continuity
    Quest CTO, Mike Billon, gives an overview of the steps involved in building a dunamic disaster recovery plan. Through case studies and an examination of software/hardware tooles for monitoring and testing, you'll gain a better understandin of where you are, where you want ...
  5. Organize Your Visio Diagrams with Containers and Lists
    Scott Helmers uses cross functional flowcharts, wireframe diagrams, data graphic legends and seating charts to teach you: how to ustilize all three new structured diagram components in Visio 2010, the best practices for organizeing shapes in previous version of Visio, how to organize ...
  6. How to Us Objects, Properties, Events and Methods in Microsoft Access
    Alison Dalter gives an in-depbth look at objects, properties, events and methods in Microsoft Access. In this webinar you will learn about using the object browser, referring to objects, working with properties and methods, working with object variables, understanding the ...

Join the Community

Give a Little. Get a Lot.

Join the community of experts here and help other tech pros by answering question in your area of expertise. You can earn FREE access to all Experts Exchange's premium features and resources.

Join the Community

Answers

 

by: boag2000Posted on 2009-08-12 at 07:07:53ID: 25078843

Any New Technology would still be limited to the "Speed" of the Internet.

If the entire internet, and your network, had a "Gazillion" GigaBit bandwidith, almost any technology would:
  "work well in single instance model available from around the world without much of a performance degradation"

;-)

But this is a "huge" topic.
Let's see what the other Experts add...
;-)

Jeff

 

by: SteveJPosted on 2009-08-12 at 11:20:23ID: 25081286

I'm not sure I really follow your question, fahim. I mean I understand more or less what you are asking, but what if everybody had access to the application at Gigabit speed, regardless of their location?  Assuming you had 1000 people acessing the server or server farm, you'd need massive amounts of bandwidth (both in link and CPU) to handle the load. I'm not sure if I had that kind of access need that I would centralize it anyway because I think that's where the single instance model breaks down. I'd be more inclined to locate a number of servers around the globe and distribute load based on link/bandwidth/CPU availability.

Good luck,
SteveJ

 

by: fahimPosted on 2009-08-12 at 11:43:21ID: 25081509

Sorry for not being quite concise in my earlier question.

The need is, to identify a methodology that would enable my software developers to do their bit (apart from the hardware infratsructure involved, bandwidth, optimisers, application load balancers etc)., so that they create agile and bandwidth friendly applications.

I am aware that the topic is huge but was wondering if there is something out there that I am unaware of from software development and it's assciated architecture perspective, for I read somewhere, that applications should also be developed in such a way that they perform appropriately over lesser bandwidths.

Maybe I am mistaken.

Rgds

 

by: SteveJPosted on 2009-08-12 at 12:27:20ID: 25081951

fahim,

<< . . .developed in such a way that they perform appropriately over lesser bandwidths.>>

Yikes!!!! Most developers (I know this may be an unfair generalization) are building apps on gigbit neworks with gigantic, under utilized servers and have no clue or don't care how their apps behave under stressed or low-bandwidth conditions. I spent a month in Palo Alto working with Riverbed and SAP trying to optimize their WAN behavior.

Good luck,
SteveJ

 

by: boag2000Posted on 2009-08-12 at 13:13:15ID: 25082405

SteveJ makes some good points here.

Most Programmers write code to do what needs to be done.

The very nature of that code may result in Poor networking performance:
Unclosed Recordsets
Poor Indexing
Un-optimized queries
Wide Search parameters
Complex Interface designs
Overuse of Graphics
Incorrect Datatypes
...ect

There is no magical new "Methodology" to make writing code more efficient or "Wire Friendly"

As you can see from the topics I listed above, what needs to be done is to enforce the "Existing" methodologies.
;-)

Jeff

 

by: fahimPosted on 2009-08-12 at 18:28:37ID: 25084896

Thanks SteveJ and boag.

Steve , it will be highly worth hearing about the outcomes of your month's stay in Palo alto. I am about to embark on the same journey but the only difference is that I would be dealing with Oracle's e Biz suite. I can take it offline this forum if you're willing to share. I am on linkedin at [ /in/fahimdxb ]

Boag: Does Oracle as the backened database for most of these applications, play any role by implementing 'out of the box' features in optimising it's indexing in the new(er) releases and makes it self better positioned to serve the 'cloud'?

 

by: boag2000Posted on 2009-08-12 at 20:01:18ID: 25085179

fahim,

Oracle should have both a:
Rule Based Optimizer (RBO)
...and a...
Cost Based Optimizer (CBO)

I believe the CBO is the only one available in recent Oracle Products.
You can contact your Oracle vendor for info on these tools or do a Google search.

But again, this is a *Huge* topic.
Optimizing the back end is only one small part of this.
A poorly designed application interface can slow even the most efficient Back end databases to a crawl...

JeffCoachman

 

by: fahimPosted on 2009-08-13 at 09:40:34ID: 25090304

Jeff,

Not being a software developer but an infrastructure guy, when the problems hits, it all dumped on Network and bandwidth. I want to tell the managemnt that it's not always that the problem is solely a bandwidth issue. If i can get to do some reading and eventually understand the basics of a good application design tha would hold good when taken over the WAN, that would be it. That's what I came searching for here. I understand that it's huge but there has gotta be some paper, write up somewhere that would summarise it for management that doesn't have the will nor time to take it as a whole. I need to make a case of ' not all is network fault' to the management.

Thanks again!

 

by: boag2000Posted on 2009-08-13 at 09:48:49ID: 25090385

Here is an excellent link!
;-)

JeffCoachman
http://www.fmsinc.com/tpapers/faster/

 

by: jimpenPosted on 2009-08-13 at 10:30:14ID: 25090783

One option that you could use to get your developers to see "the real world" is lock their NICS to 10MBPS at the switch level. Maybe have a test lab PCs that are setup that way. Then they can see what the long distance does.

 

by: SteveJPosted on 2009-08-13 at 10:54:34ID: 25091017

fahim,

There are a number of tools, mercury load runner for one, that let you test applications by reducing bandwidth and introducing varying degrees of packet loss. What I found while testing with SAP and BEA products was that packet loss sometimes greatly increased the amount of network traffic and when the bandwidth was squeezed and traffic increased the application performance deteriorated. This was of course blamed on the inability of the network to support the load or in my case the inability of the load balancer to keep pace with the application.

It's hard to blame a developer for performance issues when a packet is lost . . .  what do you do? Process in very small chunks? Perhaps, the application should be able to adjust based on the bandwidth available to a given socket. Actually, that's the way that networks are supposed to work, but Microsoft's IP stack for example simply assumes that if the network address is different from the server network address the frame size is reduced . . . this is a very complicated subject and that's why stuff like riverbed is out there . . .

Good luck,
SteveJ

 

by: jimpenPosted on 2009-09-01 at 08:36:35ID: 25232666

Glad to be of assistance. May all your days get brighter and brighter.

 

by: fahimPosted on 2009-09-01 at 08:44:11ID: 25232757

Same to you jimpen. Wish I had more than 500 points to assign. :)

20120131-EE-VQP-002

3 Ways to Join

30-Day Free Trial

The Experts

98% positive feedback on 31,087 answers since March 2000. angeliii is a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional for his work with MS SQL Server & Develoment.

He has also proven his knowledge of Visual Basic Programming, PHP Scripting and Oracle Databases.

The Experts

97% positive feedback on 10,752 answers since July 2000. lrmoore has more than 18 years experience in the networking industry.

The six-time Mircosoft MVPs specialties include firewalls, virtual private networking, and network management.

Testimonials

"...and excellent source for support... Kind of like having your very own IT dept." Electriciansnet

Testimonials

"I was apprehensive at signing up at first. However... it has already made my life as an IT administrator much easier." JaCrews

Testimonials

"WOW! You guys have great, active, and knowledgeable people on here." moore50

Business Clients

Business Clients

In the Press

"If you’ve got a question... Experts Exchange can supply an answer.”

In the Press

"...an invaluable aid for both IT professionals and those who require tech support."

In the Press

"where IT professionals provide quick answers on just about any topic"

Business Account Plans

Loading Advertisement...