craylord
asked on
beggars can be choosers, can't they? salary/job question
We've all been there. It's review time. After the year awaited "wait until this next review to get you up to scale line" review, it went about just as i had a feeling it would. As a Tech Analyst + being jack of all trades with 5 yrs exp, according to all the stupid salary stats I should be about 50-60k. salary.com, dice, dept of labor. I mean the dept of labor!! The DOL info is based off of peoples tax returns, it has to be pretty accurate.
The boss slipped up and "you're at 38.. wait I mean 35.5" well, he's tipped his hat at what I was going to be offered/given as a raise. A bump up to 38. He asked what would be jumping for joy in the hall ways, acceptable, and lousy. My verbal responses were 55-60, 45-48, and anything less than 45k respectively. With the first part of the review done, I have to finish up the employee section and I'd like to come up with something tactful for th section labeled "Support I need to succeed". I'd like to add something that tactfully says "gimme my money, biaatch".
Again tactfully :)
And if I should even put it in there in the first place...
The only thing that made me stick around for the past year is, it IS a great company to work for but I got into the IS dept from a warehouse job (work and school fulltime) and it still seems as if I'm on that payscale. Arghh.
The only saving grace is I have a college friend who is a Lead IT head hunter at one of the larger companies in the nation. After telling her my responsibilities and what my pay was, she said I was being "hosed". She said I should (and could) be making at least 50k a year or more and it wouldn't take long for her to line up some possible companies. If it was any head hunter I didn't know I'd tell them to f*** off, but I have some faith in her since we hang out sometimes. Why ruin a friendship over job.
As it lay at the end of the review, my boss was going to "go to bat for me." (heard that before). And I was to finish up the employee sections of the review sheet. So any advice would be appreciated. If I don't get what I'm asking for, I have to play the role of Milton while secretly shopping out my resume.
???
The boss slipped up and "you're at 38.. wait I mean 35.5" well, he's tipped his hat at what I was going to be offered/given as a raise. A bump up to 38. He asked what would be jumping for joy in the hall ways, acceptable, and lousy. My verbal responses were 55-60, 45-48, and anything less than 45k respectively. With the first part of the review done, I have to finish up the employee section and I'd like to come up with something tactful for th section labeled "Support I need to succeed". I'd like to add something that tactfully says "gimme my money, biaatch".
Again tactfully :)
And if I should even put it in there in the first place...
The only thing that made me stick around for the past year is, it IS a great company to work for but I got into the IS dept from a warehouse job (work and school fulltime) and it still seems as if I'm on that payscale. Arghh.
The only saving grace is I have a college friend who is a Lead IT head hunter at one of the larger companies in the nation. After telling her my responsibilities and what my pay was, she said I was being "hosed". She said I should (and could) be making at least 50k a year or more and it wouldn't take long for her to line up some possible companies. If it was any head hunter I didn't know I'd tell them to f*** off, but I have some faith in her since we hang out sometimes. Why ruin a friendship over job.
As it lay at the end of the review, my boss was going to "go to bat for me." (heard that before). And I was to finish up the employee sections of the review sheet. So any advice would be appreciated. If I don't get what I'm asking for, I have to play the role of Milton while secretly shopping out my resume.
???
If you can get the numbers and he is a decent guy, talk to him about what you think you are worth. At every review in my group we take a list with salaries from our region for Software engineers ( CS/CE, bachelor, masters, etc) and look at what we are doing, and how other companies pay for that job in our region.
Sure, that's easy if you pay your employees well. But hopefully you can make a start with that in your position. If your boss is an honest person, he should be able to come up with a plan.
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Werner
Sure, that's easy if you pay your employees well. But hopefully you can make a start with that in your position. If your boss is an honest person, he should be able to come up with a plan.
=====
Werner
ASKER
Last year I prepped with several sources backing up my claims and request for a salary adjustment. However, their response was that they use their own sources for salary statistics. Followed up by, if everyone came up with salary research and asked for an adjustment, then everyone would do it. I've made it pretty clear that I love working for them, it's just my concerns for a fair wage.
I don't think it would be possible to be part of the presentation to the VP of Finance. It's been my impression that managers are the buffer from upper mgmt and employees. But I think I would be able to inquire about it.
Another concern was the HR manager verbally (small chat) asked me a few months ago during a meeting what it was I did. ??? He had the impression that I was an employee in a jr. fashion with a co-worker as my boss. The next logical thought was how can my salary be properly evaluated if the HR manager has NO CLUE what it is I do. How can I be certain that I got a fair shake? How do I know if the guy is referencing a salary report that is what I do? This I'll have to stress tomorrow. I was assured that he had no part in how or what kind of salary adjustments I receive as an employee. Logically, it doesn't work, he provides the reports that dictate the salary ranges for me.
He's not one to take offense either and I was carefree when mentioning my contact and what her opinion was of the salary with her "hosed" comment. I know he'd prefer not to lose me.
I don't think it would be possible to be part of the presentation to the VP of Finance. It's been my impression that managers are the buffer from upper mgmt and employees. But I think I would be able to inquire about it.
Another concern was the HR manager verbally (small chat) asked me a few months ago during a meeting what it was I did. ??? He had the impression that I was an employee in a jr. fashion with a co-worker as my boss. The next logical thought was how can my salary be properly evaluated if the HR manager has NO CLUE what it is I do. How can I be certain that I got a fair shake? How do I know if the guy is referencing a salary report that is what I do? This I'll have to stress tomorrow. I was assured that he had no part in how or what kind of salary adjustments I receive as an employee. Logically, it doesn't work, he provides the reports that dictate the salary ranges for me.
He's not one to take offense either and I was carefree when mentioning my contact and what her opinion was of the salary with her "hosed" comment. I know he'd prefer not to lose me.
>Another concern was the HR manager verbally (small chat) asked me a few months ago during a meeting what it was I did.
This may be the weakest link in your getting a raise. Some 'HR managers' are dumber than a box of hammers, not knowledgeable about IT, and would be more qualified to be a barmaid. If HR has any kind of 'review' on your position, and it comes out low, there's a good chance that short of using small arms and a light anti-tank weapon your manager might not be able to do anything about it. If you have the salary survey info, I'd present all of it to HR, with a copy of your recent pay history, and request a meeting with that person, your boss, and you.
(1) Get your boss to agree that your position equates to the positions in the surveys you have.
(2) Force HR moron to prove that current position description does not equate to the positions in the surveys you have.
(3) Speak very little, and watch HR moron squirm.
>I know he'd prefer not to lose me.
This is good. Memorize some catchy phrases like 'how many times have you been able to go play golf with me around?'
This may be the weakest link in your getting a raise. Some 'HR managers' are dumber than a box of hammers, not knowledgeable about IT, and would be more qualified to be a barmaid. If HR has any kind of 'review' on your position, and it comes out low, there's a good chance that short of using small arms and a light anti-tank weapon your manager might not be able to do anything about it. If you have the salary survey info, I'd present all of it to HR, with a copy of your recent pay history, and request a meeting with that person, your boss, and you.
(1) Get your boss to agree that your position equates to the positions in the surveys you have.
(2) Force HR moron to prove that current position description does not equate to the positions in the surveys you have.
(3) Speak very little, and watch HR moron squirm.
>I know he'd prefer not to lose me.
This is good. Memorize some catchy phrases like 'how many times have you been able to go play golf with me around?'
I just looked for another job, got the written offer. Silently laid it on my bosses desk and waited for a reaction. It was a $20K reaction.
Nice reaction.
Nice reaction.
>It was a $20K reaction.
That happened to me once. The reaction was jealousy.. "Do they need any more people?"
That happened to me once. The reaction was jealousy.. "Do they need any more people?"
Get a new job... Unfortunately you will never get up to par for your salary range. What do people around you make in your department? Chances are that your boss is not making 60K. If you really want stay, determine what you are willing to settle for. Ask for twice that much and you might just get it.
Otherwise your salary at a company is reallly tied to two things. 1.) What your salary started at with the company and 2.) How long you are with a company.
Therefore if you really think you are worth 55K then you need to get a new job and make sure you meet that salary requirement when negotiations occur. Also remember that if money is a factor that 1.) when offered a job they offer it to you because they want you. Therefore you have the upper hand in the negotiations. 2.) If they don't meet your requirements at the time of Hiriing then they never will.
I hope that helps. I have been through the same thing. I left and got a new job right at the salary I should have been at.
Otherwise your salary at a company is reallly tied to two things. 1.) What your salary started at with the company and 2.) How long you are with a company.
Therefore if you really think you are worth 55K then you need to get a new job and make sure you meet that salary requirement when negotiations occur. Also remember that if money is a factor that 1.) when offered a job they offer it to you because they want you. Therefore you have the upper hand in the negotiations. 2.) If they don't meet your requirements at the time of Hiriing then they never will.
I hope that helps. I have been through the same thing. I left and got a new job right at the salary I should have been at.
Get a new job. It's the only way to get what you want.
SOLUTION
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You could always traverse to a new position when available. I have done that several times. Help Desk, Help Desk Manager, Network Admin, Programmer.
I was in a similar situations years back, had a review, etc.. I was well underpaid for my position and when it came to the pay review they offered me a 1k raise.
I started applying for other jobs, then while fixing the HR computer I heard my name mentioned in the other office. Basically they had got suspicious that I was looking for another job and had contacted every number I had phone and got to a computer agency - they tried to gain information from them, but the agency denied any knowledge of me.
After a few discussions with my Boss about pay, I decided enough was enough and handed in my resignation. I was then told by my boss that he was not accepting my resignation and he would work something out with HR and give me a call. The following morning I was phoned and told I was fired and not to return to the office (They never gave me a reason).
Of course I knew the way this company operated and had accidently backed up a few senior management computers which held some rather dodgy and incriminating files - needless to say I received a glowing reference, a months salary and all my overdue expenses paid.
The following week I started a new job with a 100% pay increase.
I started applying for other jobs, then while fixing the HR computer I heard my name mentioned in the other office. Basically they had got suspicious that I was looking for another job and had contacted every number I had phone and got to a computer agency - they tried to gain information from them, but the agency denied any knowledge of me.
After a few discussions with my Boss about pay, I decided enough was enough and handed in my resignation. I was then told by my boss that he was not accepting my resignation and he would work something out with HR and give me a call. The following morning I was phoned and told I was fired and not to return to the office (They never gave me a reason).
Of course I knew the way this company operated and had accidently backed up a few senior management computers which held some rather dodgy and incriminating files - needless to say I received a glowing reference, a months salary and all my overdue expenses paid.
The following week I started a new job with a 100% pay increase.
Is there a job discription available for your present position? If not can you get HR to draw one up for you? Take this description and what you actually do to your superiors/decision makers and ask for what you think it is worth, if they don't come up with it cut back your performance to meet the newly created job description, then start looking for a new job.
ASKER
Well, after some interviewing, I should be having an offer this afternoon from 55-60k. I was planning on closing this question this afternoon or later this weekend!
ASKER
WOOO HOOO! I got it! :) Jumping for joy! lakjvnl;aienl;aksjoihj23o;
Congrats!!!
poink me!!!!
poink me!!!!
point passing? We all offered different advice, which he used.
Point passing in the Lounge? Hells bells, I'll show you 'Point Passing'.
er, wait, that would include points I've received as well. Nevermind.
er, wait, that would include points I've received as well. Nevermind.
This sort of action makes it not worth it to add additional comments to questions that already have answers.
>Point passing in the Lounge? Hells bells, I'll show you 'Point Passing'.
Oops, sorry, this isn't in the Lounge. Nevermind.
>This Q does gave me another impression: https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/21576047/YEAH.html
Just because it says 'poinks all around' in the original question, I mean, c'mon..
Oops, sorry, this isn't in the Lounge. Nevermind.
>This Q does gave me another impression: https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/21576047/YEAH.html
Just because it says 'poinks all around' in the original question, I mean, c'mon..
ASKER
What? Point passing? Seeking advice on how to better my current employment situation at the time is points passing? Then later deciding to actually go through a major decision concerning my career, the ability to put food on the table for my family, and provide a roof over our heads.. is points passing?
>> This question is seen as point passing and will be deleted tomorrow.
Far be it from me to ever go against a Mod but I have to disagree on this one.
I feel that this was a serious question pertaining to the persons future. In other words: "I don't feel like I'm being paid what I'm worth. It's time for my annual evaluation, what do I do". I feel he vast majority if not all of the responses were a sincere attempt to provide assistance.
The one in the Lounge was just for the comedic side of: "What would I like to do"
Far be it from me to ever go against a Mod but I have to disagree on this one.
I feel that this was a serious question pertaining to the persons future. In other words: "I don't feel like I'm being paid what I'm worth. It's time for my annual evaluation, what do I do". I feel he vast majority if not all of the responses were a sincere attempt to provide assistance.
The one in the Lounge was just for the comedic side of: "What would I like to do"
modulo
I accept almost any decision of a moderator, I don't know why :-)
But this time I strongly disagree. This was an honest and SERIOUS question about advice for not being treated as expected. We all spend time to give honest and SERIOUS answers.
I understand what you see: a Lounge member asking a question and other Lounge members answering it. Does that make it a invalid question? NO! I have seen 500p earned with no information given for stupid questions and NOBODY complaint about it. This is just not fair.
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Werner
I accept almost any decision of a moderator, I don't know why :-)
But this time I strongly disagree. This was an honest and SERIOUS question about advice for not being treated as expected. We all spend time to give honest and SERIOUS answers.
I understand what you see: a Lounge member asking a question and other Lounge members answering it. Does that make it a invalid question? NO! I have seen 500p earned with no information given for stupid questions and NOBODY complaint about it. This is just not fair.
=====
Werner
>>This is just not fair
fair?! who said anything was suppose to be fair? It's all about the business' profit margin, screw the people who make the business work.
Not one single person in this thread pays their $10 per month. Therefore this thread *should* be deleted. In fact, I propose that anyone who doesn't pay their $10 a month should have *all* of their open questions deleted.
Not that 500 points will get anyone anything anymore. It used to get you a t-shirt, now it doesn't even give you that.
fair?! who said anything was suppose to be fair? It's all about the business' profit margin, screw the people who make the business work.
Not one single person in this thread pays their $10 per month. Therefore this thread *should* be deleted. In fact, I propose that anyone who doesn't pay their $10 a month should have *all* of their open questions deleted.
Not that 500 points will get anyone anything anymore. It used to get you a t-shirt, now it doesn't even give you that.
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I still strongly disagree.
This question was: Seeking advice on how to handle a performance appraisal when I feel I'm underpaid compared to the market.
Q_21576045.html: Seems to be: Now that I obtained new employment, How do I go about resigning short of: "F YOU I QUIT!!!".
Both questions received serious replies to a legitimate question.
I have sought this same EXACT advice from co-workers and friends several times in my life. If I had known about this site back then, I would have probably done the same thing.
I humbly ask that you get a 3rd party (another MOD or Admin) involved and let them be the deciding factor.
This question was: Seeking advice on how to handle a performance appraisal when I feel I'm underpaid compared to the market.
Q_21576045.html: Seems to be: Now that I obtained new employment, How do I go about resigning short of: "F YOU I QUIT!!!".
Both questions received serious replies to a legitimate question.
I have sought this same EXACT advice from co-workers and friends several times in my life. If I had known about this site back then, I would have probably done the same thing.
I humbly ask that you get a 3rd party (another MOD or Admin) involved and let them be the deciding factor.
ASKER
Thanks slightwv for taking the time to write what I was planning on writing!
No problem.
ASKER
Well, again not sure what to post. I'd like to have this question brought back to the 500 pts I originally assigned to it and split them to the answers I found insightful. This question being asked 3 weeks previous to the thought of my other question.
I doubt that’s going to happen due to the lounge question you asked but modulo did say that you could award 50 points on this question.
ASKER
Thanks for the opinions everybody. But after this fiasco I can't see the point of asking any more questions regarding life situation/transitions. I also feel that there is no point in answering other people's similar questions. EE doesn't think it's worth anything. This is a shame since new EE subscribers come into these transitions at some point down the road.
Anyone who felt they've been robbed of their point share can complain in CS. I've already done enough.
Answer given to griessh as it makes the most complete sense of this brouhaha.
Anyone who felt they've been robbed of their point share can complain in CS. I've already done enough.
Answer given to griessh as it makes the most complete sense of this brouhaha.
Give HIM the surveys.
Don't TELL him about what a decent range would be for you........SHOW him with diligent research on paper. Show him what it would cost to replace you with someone who DOES NOT know the company like you do.
Stress how appreciative you are to have been given the opportunity and how your plans are to stay and share the successes.
If he is the type NOT to take offense, ask him if you could be involved in a presentation to his superiors outlining what you do there, your skillset, and average salary ranges.
ME