Basic Questions about VPN versus Remote Admin
My friends have a local network comprising 2 WinXP Pro PCs and an occasional laptop, behind a Netgear WGR614 v6 router, connected to a COMCAST cable modem.
They use a database program called MYOB / Mind Your Own Business. It allows multiple users to edit the database simultaneously.
They have a work assoc in Boston, who needs to be able to do this from his PC in Boston.
In the past the Boston guy used GoToMyPC to make changes to the MYOB database file by "taking over" a PC on our end. But this is not a workable solutiong, because we lose use of the PC on our end when he "takes it over".
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(1) Can these "remote admin" programs (PC Anywhere, GoToMyPC, realVNC) be tweaked to allow the kind of live database file access I'm talking about, WITHOUT taking over the PC controls / resources / screen?
(2) If not, my understanding is that we need to setup a VPN SERVER, and this is most easily achieved by buying a "VPN SERVER ROUTER", as opposed to the more common "VPN Passthrough" routers that are for the VPN client (Boston guy).... AND that SOFTWARE-ONLY solutions, for a small home business VPN SERVER, are either non-existent or problematic?
(4) In addition to the VPN SERVER ROUTER, will we need to obtain VPN SERVER SOFTWARE, or will XP Pro provide a reliable generic VPN solution on our end? (Or does server software usually come bundled with the router?)
(5) I hear about free VPN SERVER SOFTWARE (e.g. SSH Sentinel), but find only trialware versions. Any suggestions there?
(6) Comcast, being a cable ISP, changes the gateway IP regularly. We don't want to pay them extra for a true "static IP" from Comcast. Will using a VPN SERVER ROUTER solution (or any other) allow the BOSTON guy to access the MYOB database, WITHOUT having to call us first to get the gateway IP? What if we use "DNS2GO" or "DynDNS"?
(7) Is there an easier / cheaper solution I have missed?
(Phew) Thanks a ton!
They use a database program called MYOB / Mind Your Own Business. It allows multiple users to edit the database simultaneously.
They have a work assoc in Boston, who needs to be able to do this from his PC in Boston.
In the past the Boston guy used GoToMyPC to make changes to the MYOB database file by "taking over" a PC on our end. But this is not a workable solutiong, because we lose use of the PC on our end when he "takes it over".
******
(1) Can these "remote admin" programs (PC Anywhere, GoToMyPC, realVNC) be tweaked to allow the kind of live database file access I'm talking about, WITHOUT taking over the PC controls / resources / screen?
(2) If not, my understanding is that we need to setup a VPN SERVER, and this is most easily achieved by buying a "VPN SERVER ROUTER", as opposed to the more common "VPN Passthrough" routers that are for the VPN client (Boston guy).... AND that SOFTWARE-ONLY solutions, for a small home business VPN SERVER, are either non-existent or problematic?
(4) In addition to the VPN SERVER ROUTER, will we need to obtain VPN SERVER SOFTWARE, or will XP Pro provide a reliable generic VPN solution on our end? (Or does server software usually come bundled with the router?)
(5) I hear about free VPN SERVER SOFTWARE (e.g. SSH Sentinel), but find only trialware versions. Any suggestions there?
(6) Comcast, being a cable ISP, changes the gateway IP regularly. We don't want to pay them extra for a true "static IP" from Comcast. Will using a VPN SERVER ROUTER solution (or any other) allow the BOSTON guy to access the MYOB database, WITHOUT having to call us first to get the gateway IP? What if we use "DNS2GO" or "DynDNS"?
(7) Is there an easier / cheaper solution I have missed?
(Phew) Thanks a ton!
why not just install Microsoft Virtual PC onto a PC and have your Boston fellow use GotoMyPC solution onto that Virtual PC. It's like having 2 PCs in 1 box but virtually. It doesn't hog up too much resource because you can customize it.
Pentrix2, I think they'd end up with 2 databases, one on the guest PC and the other on the host PC and they would become out-of-sync... but I might be wrong.
That's what I thought too but Dqrr has this line:
"They use a database program called MYOB / Mind Your Own Business. It allows multiple users to edit the database simultaneously."
With Microsoft Virtual PC 2004 @ Compusa cost $121.99. This will save him buying an extra PC.
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=50342949&pfp=SEARCH
"They use a database program called MYOB / Mind Your Own Business. It allows multiple users to edit the database simultaneously."
With Microsoft Virtual PC 2004 @ Compusa cost $121.99. This will save him buying an extra PC.
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=50342949&pfp=SEARCH
Right, but how do you update the database from the Virtual PC if it resides on the other PC? I checked the myob.com site and there doesn't seem to be any download available for a Windows client. Unless it comes with the software... So, I guess only Dqrr or someone who uses MYOB would know that.
Alternatives to this problem might be web-based accounting solutions for small businesses such as:
http://www.netsuite.com/portal/products/main.shtml
...and others listed in the following article:
http://www.allbusiness.com/articles/FinanceAccounting/436-32-1765.html
Alternatives to this problem might be web-based accounting solutions for small businesses such as:
http://www.netsuite.com/portal/products/main.shtml
...and others listed in the following article:
http://www.allbusiness.com/articles/FinanceAccounting/436-32-1765.html
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But that doesn't answer HOW one PC can have access to the MYOB database on ther OTHER PC without using remote desktop take-over which was the initial question. SOME kind of database front end client is still needed.
As I re-read the question, the initial statement "It allows multiple users to edit the database simultaneously" implies that the asker already has that capability. If that's the case, then, yes, a remote access VPN solution will solve their problem. If not, I don't know how else they can access the database remotely and I doubt installing Virtual PC will help as it will only allow them to put their database on two PCs - not what they want.
As I re-read the question, the initial statement "It allows multiple users to edit the database simultaneously" implies that the asker already has that capability. If that's the case, then, yes, a remote access VPN solution will solve their problem. If not, I don't know how else they can access the database remotely and I doubt installing Virtual PC will help as it will only allow them to put their database on two PCs - not what they want.
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To ALL:
First, my apologies -- in going over these options you've talked about with my friend, I learned that NOBODY actually used remote admin software (gotomypc or pcanywhere) to connect FROM Boston TO my friends network (Calif). GoToMyPC was ONLY used for the BOSTON guy to connect from his BOSTON workplace to his BOSTON home pc.
At this point, we are all leaning toward the VPN solution, since it seems a surer thing. Since we haven't actually used remote admin yet in this context (again, my apologies!), doing so is a big question mark… But some of the questions below are about remote admin, for my own education.
I am checking with MYOB to confirm what "boston to calif" situations would allow or disallow simult access to the database (RA vs VPN). At least locally, all PC's use "multi-user version" of the MYOB program that acts as both server/client software, to connect to the database saved on ONE of the local pcs.
My friends are willing put the database on the web -- but apparently MYOB does NOT have an online database option, and my friends don't want to switch software (e.g. to peachtree / netsuite / quicken online). (thanks for the links, plemiex72)
to Plemiex72 - when you said,
"A VPN server alone will not provide anything additional than the GoToMyPC solution"
-- Wouldn't ANY remote admin solution use MORE local PC resources than a VPN solution? With VPN, Boston accesses only the VPN server router and the HD / database file locally, whereas with a Remote Admin solution, he's using the hd, screen, ram, cpu, etc? AND takes over the local PC?
to Pentrix2
"The virtual PC has its own Operating system and IP so it'll act just like another PC. It's like taking away dqrrr's PC and putting a Virtual PC in it's place."
-- Don't you mean it "add's" the second operating system -- so that on my local screen I could "switch" back and forth between my "host" OS screen, and the "virtual OS" - sort of like user switching?
to Jeff Overley
-- Is there a difference between "remote admin" and "remote desktop"? Which one allows the local user to continue working (by putting the remote activity in its own session, or however?)
to ALL
-- you guys are being great, & patient -- I will add points
>>"A VPN server alone will not provide anything additional than the GoToMyPC solution"
>>-- Wouldn't ANY remote admin solution use MORE local PC resources than a VPN solution? With VPN, Boston accesses only the VPN server router and the HD / database file locally, >>whereas with a Remote Admin solution, he's using the hd, screen, ram, cpu, etc? AND takes over the local PC?
A VPN server only allows you to connect from the Internet to that office. Once connected, you still have to use remote desktop or some kind of client to see/update the database. So, the VPN will take resources at the VPN client and server. Then, the client used to access the database will take resources on the PC hosting the database (and the client on the other side of the VPN).
>>-- Wouldn't ANY remote admin solution use MORE local PC resources than a VPN solution? With VPN, Boston accesses only the VPN server router and the HD / database file locally, >>whereas with a Remote Admin solution, he's using the hd, screen, ram, cpu, etc? AND takes over the local PC?
A VPN server only allows you to connect from the Internet to that office. Once connected, you still have to use remote desktop or some kind of client to see/update the database. So, the VPN will take resources at the VPN client and server. Then, the client used to access the database will take resources on the PC hosting the database (and the client on the other side of the VPN).
ASKER
you wrote...
>>you still have to use remote desktop or some kind of client to see/update the database
by "some kind of client" do you mean something besides the MYOB client program? (which as I understand it is simply a multi-user version of the program?)
Or will VPN + MYOB multi user version suffice?
right now MYOB multi user version allows PC1 to access the database on PC2 across the room, thru the router / local network. So I want to know if this MYOB + VPN Router will allow boston to edit the database.
OF course, MYOB will have to tell me. But does your understanding of the above situation indicate that a "remote admin" will ALSO be necessary?
>>you still have to use remote desktop or some kind of client to see/update the database
by "some kind of client" do you mean something besides the MYOB client program? (which as I understand it is simply a multi-user version of the program?)
Or will VPN + MYOB multi user version suffice?
right now MYOB multi user version allows PC1 to access the database on PC2 across the room, thru the router / local network. So I want to know if this MYOB + VPN Router will allow boston to edit the database.
OF course, MYOB will have to tell me. But does your understanding of the above situation indicate that a "remote admin" will ALSO be necessary?
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The same program, "MYOB MULti User Version", is installed on all 3 pcs (PC1 (local), PC2 (local), and PC 3 (boston)
the database file lives on PC1. PC2 user just runs the program (MYOB) and then edits the database file (on PC1 HD) via the network.
Clients & I became confused when they said that "boston guy used remote admin to edit the file", but they don't want to consider this option anymore because it takes over a pc locally.
Turns out he never did this. What happened was, they emailed him a copy of the db, and he saved this copy on his boston home PC, and then used remote admin at his boston workpc to edit the db on his boston home pc. Never used remote admin to contact us in calif.
So there was a lot of confusion about what had and hadn't been done with remote admin.
Short version of above -- VPN is way to go, altho if there is some kind of limitation of MYOB software, that it would exclude a vpn-connected user, they'd have to tell me. But sounds like this is very unlikely.
Thanks you guys for your input! We'll probably be getting a vpn router. (awaiting MYOB input)
the database file lives on PC1. PC2 user just runs the program (MYOB) and then edits the database file (on PC1 HD) via the network.
Clients & I became confused when they said that "boston guy used remote admin to edit the file", but they don't want to consider this option anymore because it takes over a pc locally.
Turns out he never did this. What happened was, they emailed him a copy of the db, and he saved this copy on his boston home PC, and then used remote admin at his boston workpc to edit the db on his boston home pc. Never used remote admin to contact us in calif.
So there was a lot of confusion about what had and hadn't been done with remote admin.
Short version of above -- VPN is way to go, altho if there is some kind of limitation of MYOB software, that it would exclude a vpn-connected user, they'd have to tell me. But sounds like this is very unlikely.
Thanks you guys for your input! We'll probably be getting a vpn router. (awaiting MYOB input)
>>Short version of above -- VPN is way to go, altho if there is some kind of limitation of MYOB software, that it would exclude a vpn-connected user, they'd have to tell me. But sounds like this is very unlikely.
Yes, then, VPN is the way to go. I seriously doubt there would be any kind of limitation of MYOB over an IPSec VPN. An IPSec VPN can encapsulates all packets based on source and destination and doesn't care what applications these packets relate to. So, I agree with you. Good luck with your implementation.
Yes, then, VPN is the way to go. I seriously doubt there would be any kind of limitation of MYOB over an IPSec VPN. An IPSec VPN can encapsulates all packets based on source and destination and doesn't care what applications these packets relate to. So, I agree with you. Good luck with your implementation.
(2) A VPN server alone will not provide anything additional than the GoToMyPC solution.
(4) A Windows Server 2000 or 2003 can provide a VPN end-point (through RRAS) and allow the built-in VPN client on Windows XP Pro computers to connect to it. However, it would be simpler to use a VPN appliance such as the Cisco PIX firewall or Cisco SOHO 91-64. Many other cheaper (though probably less reliable) appliances exist on the market. Just make sure that if you choose one, it can actually TERMINATE a VPN tunnel. VPN pass-through is not what you need in this circumstance.
(5) When you have chosen a VPN appliance, only then can you choose the client. Most VPN routers/firewalls/servers come with a software VPN client for remote access.
(6) These dynamic DNS services you mentioned definitely work for this purpose. I use DynDNS myself and it works great.
(7) See (1) above.