Question

Get new w'less router to play nice with existing router

Asked by: Ryan_R

Hi Guys

My old setup was a fairly simple one. I have the Netcomm NB5 ADSL2+ modem, which used to be connected into a TP-Link 8 port 10/100 switch. I also had a very old DLink wireless router which only supported Wireless B (11mbps) with WEP only. I used to disable the router fundtions of the DLink and connect it directly to the TP-Link switch - so that all PC's - wired and wireless had no issues accessing the net. All computers had static IPs managed by myself, except for a few handheld devices and a PS3.

Anyway - I have today purchased a Linksys WRT610N to replace both the TP-Link switch and the DLink wireless router.  The CD setup failed to work (internal error 308 I think) - so I just launched the web-config page and went for good old manual setup.

For now, I've had to connect the modem/router (NB5) into one of the LAN ports of the WRT610N. This setup works as long as the clients have static IPs - since the WRT's DHCP is telling clients to use itself as the Def Gateway instead of the NB5. What I would prefer to do is plug the NB5 into the WRT's Internet (WAN) port, to free up a LAN port for other use. However, when I do this, while client PC's can PING the NB5 via the WRT, neither the WRT or clients can ping www.google.com - address resolution (DNS) fails. The NB5's WAN IP is dynamic due to our ADSL provider's setup (iPrimus Australia)

Anyway - here's the IP Setup:
NB5 Modem/router: 192.168.1.1
WRT610N:                192.168.1.2
Static PC range:       192.168.1.20-29
Virtual PC range:      192.168.1.40-49

NB5 DHCP range:    192.168.1.2-9
WRT DHCP range:   192.168.1.70-79

So in order to access the Internet - I have to manually setup the IP so that I can tell the clients to use the gateway: 192.168.1.1. If I use DHCP - I'm given 192.168.1.2 and hence can't connect. The DLink had an option to specify what gateway to give to DHCP clients - I haven't seen this on the WRT yet.

I assume there should be some way to get all this working by plugging the NB5 into the WRT's Internet port instead. Here's what I've tried:

Change NB5 LAN IP address to put it on a separate network as you do with multiple routers:
IP - 192.168.0.1/24

Change WRT Internet IP to static - 192.168.0.2
Note that I've also tried setting the WRT Internet IP to auto - and the NB5 DHCP gives it the same x.x.0.2 address.

In both cases the WRT and client PCs can't access the Internet - despite both being able to ping and tracert the NB5.

I was never able to use the Internet port of the DLink router either - so I must be missing something as to how to get these devices to work together. It's been 12 months since my CCNA 1&2 course ended and I've hardly used the learned info since - so I'm just a little rusty - but have no problems understanding the lingo. I've had multiple routers working well together using enterprise devices, so I've found it a little frustrating not being able to get this working the way I'd like.

As always, thanks in advance

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Asked On
2008-12-30 at 00:31:44ID24015021
Topics

Miscellaneous Networking

,

DSL Lines / Cable Internet

,

Wireless Local Area Network

Participating Experts
1
Points
250
Comments
10

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Answers

 

by: Ryan_RPosted on 2008-12-30 at 00:54:47ID: 23261296

I might also ask the following:

In the Internet IP Address config section for the WRT, besides having Static and DHCP options which I have already played around with - it also has other options - including PPoE (which is used by my NB5 to connect to the ADSL). Why would the WRT have this when it clearly says that it doesn't replace my modem device? What advantages could I receive from using this option (I'm thinking one is dyndns.org) and how would I set that up?

Thanks

 

by: Darr247Posted on 2008-12-30 at 06:58:51ID: 23262934

First, it's not good practice to have 2 DHCP servers on the same network, even with scopes restricted to avoid duplicate IPs... you can't make the Linksys hand out addresses only to clients connecting directly to it... when a DHCP request comes across the broadcast address, it will be a race to see which DHCP server can respond first... whichever is faster will deplete its scope first, then the other one will pickup and begin assigning *its* scope.  Better to set them both up with identical scopes and then just disable one of them, so you'll have it for backup if the other one goes down.


> What I would prefer to do is plug the NB5 into the WRT's Internet (WAN) port

In the WRT610N's configuration, on the Setup 'tab', over to the right on the Advanced Routing submenu, disable NAT.
RIP may or may not help (depends if the Netcomm supports it - if it does, set the Linksys to use it in both directions, and the Netcomm to take it 'in' only... you don't want it sending RIP updates about your LAN to your ISP). And you may need to setup a static route there too, but try it without both of those options, first.  With NAT enabled it assumes there's a different network on the other side of the WAN port.


>  Why would the WRT have this when it clearly says that it doesn't replace my modem device?

For connecting to modems that are in bridge mode (i.e. either without routing functions or with the routing functions bypassed).


>  What advantages could I receive from using this option

None, unless your ISP uses PPPoE (which nearly all digital subscriber line providers do).


> (I'm thinking one is dyndns.org) and how would I set that up?

If you're asking how to setup DDNS for dyndns.org, see http://www.dyndns.com/services/dns/dyndns/howto.html

When you get to step 3, do not install a client - enter the settings you just made on the Netcomm's DDNS setup page.

If the Netcomm doesn't have a DDNS setup page (that would be odd - I haven't seen many home/SOHO routers without that feature for a long time), you might look in its setups for a way to disable the routing section - usually called 'bridge' mode - and possibly use the PPPoE screen as mentioned above. Then you could use the DDNS setups in the Linksys... you would also need NAT enabled (and RIP disabled) on the Advanced Routing submenu in that case.

If you can (and do) put the Netcomm in bridge mode, its LAN ports technically become part of the WAN. So you cannot connect your TP-Link switch to the Netcomm like that (unless you get a /29 or /30 IP package from your ISP)... you would need to feed the switch from the WRT610N's LAN ports instead. So if your plan was NOT to have the Linksys and Netcomm anywhere near each other, you would have a quandry... you'd either need to have them near each other or pull another cable from the Linksys' location back to the TP-Link to replace the Netcomm's connection to the switch.

 

by: Darr247Posted on 2008-12-30 at 07:08:38ID: 23263016

> you can't make the Linksys hand out addresses only to clients connecting directly to it

I misspoke there. You CAN make it hand out addresses only to clients connecting directly to it, by using the IP Reservations feature. Still, that's really as much work as keeping static addresses straight... I use that feature to make print servers get the same address every time, but not for everything.

 

by: Ryan_RPosted on 2008-12-30 at 14:25:51ID: 23266709

Thanks for responding Darr

The NB5 doesn't have DDNS support. In the DHCP page it mentions something called 'Relay' and allows me to enter in a Relay IP Address - is this the bridge mode or router bypass mechanism?

If you want screenshots of the NB5 pages let me know. BTW it only has one LAN port and one RJ11 ADSL port (plus a USB for direct PC connections - unused). The TP-Link switch is now unused - replaced by the WRT610N

I'm not too worried about 2 DHCP servers - I can disable the NB5 server and statically set the WRT to the same address with no difference in outcome - WRT can't see the outside world - or at least DNS isn't working.

So just a quick guess/assumption:

I set the NB5 address back to 192.168.0.1 and the WRT WAN interface to 192.168.0.2/24 with a gateway of x.x.0.1
I then set the NB5 Relay address to 192.168.0.2
Rest of the network remains at 192.168.1.x/24 with the gateway set to the LAN IP Address of the WRT (x.x.1.1)
On the WRT setup page - choose PPoE and copy the details shown in the NB5 page (username and password).

Is this correct?

 

by: Ryan_RPosted on 2008-12-30 at 16:46:54ID: 23267462

Update:

I've reverted to putting the NB5 on the 192.168.0.x network and disabled DHCP, connecting via the WRTs WAN port.
I have the WRT set to static - 192.168.0.2 and it gives out DHCP to all PCs now. The PCs are given the Gateway 192.168.1.1 (the WRT610N).

The PC's can ping both the WRT, the NB5, and any Web IP Addresses. I can access EE via http://64.156.132.140/ but it won't let me login so I had alter some cables to type this (plugged directly into NB5 atm). Neither the PC or WRT610N can ping web addresses (it www.google.com).

The NB5 was also unable to Ping any of the PCs on my LAN - so I added a static route - 192.168.1.0/24 via 192.168.0.2 and now it can Ping them fine - but still no Internet access.

In this situation, if the WRT610N is the Default Gateway (192.168.1.1), then what should be the DNS address for the WRT and for the PCs. I have these options:

WRT610N:                      192.168.1.1
NB5:                               192.168.0.1
NB5 Default Gateway:    202.138.4.67

I did try turning on Relay (whatever that is) and setting it to 192.168.0.2 and then getting the WRT610N to connect via PPoE adding the correct login details but it failed to connect. So I'm back to static.


Your help in getting DNS/ARP to work will be much appreciated

 

by: Darr247Posted on 2009-01-01 at 10:51:25ID: 23275683

> So I'm back to static.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'static'... I did manage to find a copy of the NB5 manual. Is the attached image what you mean by 'static'?

In the picklist that shows Static in that screengrab, you want it to say Bridge. The encapsulation and VPI/VCI settings should be the same as used with PPPoE (probably the defaults). You want NAT and Firewall off (unchecked). Allow Incoming Ping is fine.
It appears you can make multiple profiles for quickly switching between setups, so if you name that Bridge1 you should be able to come back to it easily without having to re-enter everything if you want to try other options.

Those settings should make the NB5 into a 'transparent' modem. It will still have a LAN-side address, but only for accessing the configuration menus. Nothing should be routed to/through that IP.  The NB5 makes the DSL connection, then the Linksys does the PPPoE login, and the NB5 should just passthrough the IP Address which will be assigned to the WAN port of the Linksys, and the Linksys should get its DNS Server[s] and gateway addresses from DHCP as well.

Sorry for the delay in replying. My ISP is having email problems so I'm not getting the notices, of new comments being posted, in a timely manner (the notice of your last post sat on EE's mail servers for 28.5 hours before my ISP's mail server let it through). Happy new year. It's probably the 2nd down there by now.  :-)

 

by: Ryan_RPosted on 2009-01-01 at 14:48:39ID: 23276666

No - in the NB5 - it's a PPPoE connection, not static. There is no 'Mode: Bridged/Routed' since I'm in the PPPoE setting

What I meant was that the WRT610N no longer receives an IP from the NB5. The NB5 DHCP server is turned off.


So bascially is that all the computers can connect to the Internet fine, except that I have to enter in IP Addresses as the URL. Trying to browse to www.google.com fails since DNS isn't working.

What I was thinking of trying was to use OpenDNS addresses in the WRT610N main setup page and see what happens.

 

by: Ryan_RPosted on 2009-01-01 at 16:40:57ID: 23277027

All fixed - using the OpenDNS addresses fixed everything, too easy. Not sure why the WRT610N couldn't make use of the same iPrimus ISP DNA server as my NB5, but anyway. Thanks for your assistance.

 

by: Darr247Posted on 2009-01-01 at 20:07:49ID: 23277493

> There is no 'Mode: Bridged/Routed' since I'm in the PPPoE setting

I didn't mean (or say) ''Bridged'' - in the ''Type'' picklist where it says Static in the screengrab, you set that to Bridge to make it act as a transparent modem.

 

by: Ryan_RPosted on 2009-01-01 at 20:11:34ID: 23277505

Ah ok - I get you now

20120131-EE-VQP-002

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