Question

IVR transit VSANs - Cases for use

Asked by: carnesc

Hi there folks,

I am trying to wrap my head around when and when not to use transit VSANs. Consider a single Cisco MDS 9222i fibre channel switch and two endpoints, a file server and a tape library. The file server is in VSAN 2 and the tape library is in VSAN 10. These need to talk, and IVR zoning is the only way to do that across VSANs.

When I try to set up the IVR zone set, I am prompted for a mandatory 'transit VSAN' by Cisco Fabric Manager. In the documentation, however, there is a statement that makes me wonder if it is needed in my case. The doc states, "When the source and destination edge VSANs are adjacent to each other, a transit VSAN is not required between them."

Two questions:
1. Is a transit VSAN needed in the above IVR scenario or not?
2. When creating IVR transit VSANs in general, when is it advisable to use more than one?
(Seems to me like creating a bunch of VSANs but then using only one transit VSAN for all cross talk kind of puts your eggs back in one basket. If there is a problem with that transit VSAN, all inter-VSAN traffic stops, yet all the examples I see in Cisco documentation use a single transit VSAN.)

Thanks for any advice.

This Question has been solved and asker verified All Experts Exchange premium technology solutions are available to subscription members.

Subscribe now for full access to Experts Exchange and get

Instant Access to this Solution

  • Plus...
  • 30 Day FREE access, no risk, no obligation
  • Collaborate with the world's top tech experts
  • Unlimited access to our exclusive solution database
  • Never be left without tech help again

Subscribe Now

Asked On
2009-09-17 at 10:24:58ID24740659
Tags

san design

,

vsan

,

ivr

,

zoning

,

zone

,

permissions

,

fabric isolation

,

fabric redundancy

,

high availability

,

cisco

,

mds

,

9222i

Topics

Network Design & Methodology

,

Storage Technology

,

Hard Drives & Storage

Participating Experts
2
Points
0
Comments
5

Trusted by hundreds of thousands everyday for fast, accurate and reliable tech support.

  • "The time we save is the biggest benefit of Experts Exchange to Warner Bros. What could take multiple guys 2 hours or more each to find is accessed in around 15 minutes on Experts Exchange." Mike Kapnisakis, Warner Bros.
  • "Our team likes having a resource that is more secure than just using Google and most experts using this service really know their stuff. It's nice to look here first versus using Google." Dayna Sellner, Lockheed Martin
  • "Anytime that I've been stumped with a problem, 9 out of 10 times Experts Exchange has either the accepted solution or an open discussion of the potential solution to the problem." Kenny Red, eBay Inc.

See what Experts Exchange can do for you.

Got a question?

We've got the answer.

Experts Exchange has been collecting answers to technology questions since 1996…3 million and counting! If you have a question, chances are we already have your answer.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Need individual assistance?

Our experts are ready to help.

If you can't find the exact answer you're looking for, ask our exclusive community of 50,000 experts. You’ll get a personalized answer from a trusted professional.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Want to learn from the best?

Read articles from industry experts.

Thousands of free tech tips, tricks, how-to’s and tutorials are available in our peer reviewed articles section. See for yourself how smart our experts are, no login required.

Screenshot of an Article

Working on a long term project?

Store your work and research.

Save solutions to your questions, answers you’ve discovered through searching plus helpful articles in your personal knowledgebase for easy future access.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Access the answers to your technology questions today.

Subscribe Now

30-day free trial. Register in 60 seconds.

What Makes Experts Exchange Unique?

Members of the expert community talk about why the experience at Experts Exchange is different than what you will find anywhere else.

Trusted by the world's most respected brands.

image of each brand's logo

Faithfully serving IT professionals since 1996.

Experts Exchange Logo

Try it out and discover for yourself.

Subscribe Now

30-day free trial. Register in 60 seconds.

Related Solutions

  1. Switching fabrics and Router Architecture
    Hi, I was wondering if anyone can explain me switching fabrics in a router architecture. A conventional router uses a BUS architecture but when switching fabric is introduced, what happens to the BUS and the architecture in general? Im considering part of the BUS architectur...
  2. How to get CommVault Galaxy to see Fibre Channel Tape Li…
    We've just installed a new Exchange 2003 Cluster on a Dell|EMC SAN, and now we're trying to get CommVault Galaxy to see the SAN-attached tape library. I've got all of the CommVault pieces talking to eachother via IP; however, I can't seem to get the CommServe to talk to the ...
  3. SAN switched fabric zoning
    We need to deside what type of SAN switched fabric to use for HP SAN storage? Ideally it should not be a arbitrated loops as it might cause big problem when add new server into the SAN. Also it should have zoning capabilities. What is the better choice in terms of configurat...
  4. Using Cisco 3560\3750 SFP port for Tape Library
    I am going to be setting up a tape library. I am told with the library that I'm getting that there are two ways to set it up, [svrs to be backed up]----->thru the lan---->[backup svr]--->SCSI--->[tape library] or [fiber nic]------>[fiber bridge]------>[...
  5. mds 9000 to mcdata fabric switches
    I am working on a IBM H Blade server it has mds 9000 series fabric switches running to Mcdata they are in opt mode 1 the cisco switches can see the mcdata switches and the san beyond the can also see the q logice switche from the old blade center adn the fabric manager can se...

Free Tech Articles

  1. WARNING: 5 Reasons why you should NEVER fix a computer for free.
    It is in our nature to love the puzzle. We are obsessed. The lot of us. We love puzzles. We love the challenge. We thrive on finding the answer. We hate disarray. It bothers us deep in our soul. W...
  2. SCCM OSD Basic troubleshooting
    SCCM 2007 OSD is a fantastic way to deploy operating systems, however, like most things SCCM issues can sometimes be difficult to resolve due to the sheer volume of logs to sift through and the dispe...
  3. Migrate Small Business Server 2003 to Exchange 2010 and Windows 2008 R2
    This guide is intended to provide step by step instructions on how to migrate from Small Business Server 2003 to Windows 2008 R2 with Exchange 2010. For this migration to work you will need the fo...
  4. Create a Win7 Gadget
    This article shows you how to create a simple "Gadget" -- a sort of mini-application supported by Windows 7 and Vista. Gadgets can be dropped anywhere on the desktop to provide instant information, ...
  5. Outlook continually prompting for username and password
    There have been a lot of questions recently regarding Outlook prompting for a username and password whilst using Exchange 2007. There are a few reasons why this would happen and I will try to cover t...
  6. Backup Exchange 2010 Information Store using Windows Backup
    There seems to be quite a lot of confusion around the ability to backup Exchange 2010 using the built in Windows Backup feature. This stems from the omission of this feature prior to Exchange 2007 s...

Cloud Class Webinars

  1. Avoiding Bugs in Microsoft Access
    Alison Balter takes and in-depth look at avoiding bugs in Access. In this webinar you will learn about using the immediate window to debug your applications, invoking the debugger, using breakpoints to troubleshoot, stepping through code, setting the next statement to execute, ...
  2. Top 10 Best New Features in Visio 2010
    Scott Helmers gives live demonstrations of the top 10 new features in Visio 2010. This webinar will teach you how to create compelling diagrams by adding shapes to the page with a single click, linking the shapes in a diagram to data in Excel (or SQL Server, or SharePoint), ...
  3. IT Consultant Business Secrets Revealed
    Michael Munger, Experts Exchange tech pro and IT consultant, pulls back the curtain on his very successful businesses and answers question on every IT consultant and business owner should know about. He shares secrets on what he did to solve the 5 most common problems in IT, ...
  4. Disaster Recovery and Business Continuity
    Quest CTO, Mike Billon, gives an overview of the steps involved in building a dunamic disaster recovery plan. Through case studies and an examination of software/hardware tooles for monitoring and testing, you'll gain a better understandin of where you are, where you want ...
  5. Organize Your Visio Diagrams with Containers and Lists
    Scott Helmers uses cross functional flowcharts, wireframe diagrams, data graphic legends and seating charts to teach you: how to ustilize all three new structured diagram components in Visio 2010, the best practices for organizeing shapes in previous version of Visio, how to organize ...
  6. How to Us Objects, Properties, Events and Methods in Microsoft Access
    Alison Dalter gives an in-depbth look at objects, properties, events and methods in Microsoft Access. In this webinar you will learn about using the object browser, referring to objects, working with properties and methods, working with object variables, understanding the ...

Join the Community

Give a Little. Get a Lot.

Join the community of experts here and help other tech pros by answering question in your area of expertise. You can earn FREE access to all Experts Exchange's premium features and resources.

Join the Community

Answers

 

by: andyalderPosted on 2009-09-18 at 02:19:38ID: 25364068

>The file server is in VSAN 2 and the tape library is in VSAN 10.

Why are they in different VSANs? VSANs are very rarely necessary, we got away without them until Cisco entered the SAN business a few years ago and no doubt we'll get away without them in the future.

 

by: carnescPosted on 2009-09-19 at 19:42:35ID: 25375703

As a reference to anyone watching, an engineer at Cisco addressed my question about the meaning of "adjacency". He stated, "The question to ask, is do the VSANs exist on the same switch where you have the IVR feature? In your case, both VSANs are on the same switch and are adjacent. For example, if you had two switches, one with SAN 5 and 20, the other with 10 and 20, where only 20 is allowed over the ISL, the adjacent VSANs would be 5,20 on the first switch and 10,20 on the second switch. VSANs 5 and 10 are not adjacent."

With respect to my need for a transit VSAN in the above scenario, he said the following:

  • "No transit VSAN is required in your scenario. Creating a "Transit" vsan in this situation would not increase the robustness of IVR." 

...And about the general use of transit VSANs:

  • "In general, the simpler the better. Especially with IVR. If you can reduce the number of IVR enabled switches, and the number of VSANs, this will normally make troubleshooting easier.

    Since there is only one IVR zoneset in a fabric, all VSANs and transit VSANs will participate in the IVR topology on that fabric. The fewest number of transit VSANs will result in a simpler design and make it easier to troubleshoot.

    Transit VSANs have the most benefit when you are creating a IVR topology over a WAN (FCIP or Optical for example) that may be potentially unreliable (rare now a days) that is tying two production fabrics. i.e. Production servers in one DC to production storage in another DC. In this case, the transit will protect your non-IVR devices from seeing switch and end-device disappearances if the transport is lost or bounces frequently.

    Unfortunately, IVR design is difficult to generalize. Simple designs and best practices do not necessarily scale. It's always best to throughly review IVR designs with folks that have been through it before.

I took particular note of the words in bold, which also speaks to my reasoning for preferring use of VSANs over zoning alone and/or the absolute simplest design available. With all due respect, I view use of VSANs as offering better scalability, availability, and security, and I am trying to prepare in advance for an environment I know is going to scale quickly. The above scenario was posited for simplicity; it is not the actual config, number of switches, or complete environment.

With this post, I am specifically interested in soliciting expert advice on use of transit VSANs, with the assumption that the example scenario is required. I am not necessarily after value judgments of Cisco technology, even though I do respect and appreciate opinions along those lines.

 

by: andyalderPosted on 2009-09-20 at 04:12:34ID: 25376715

There you've got it from the horses mouth "If you can reduce [] the number of VSANs, this will normally make troubleshooting easier."

In other words VSANs just get in the way, trduce the number to one, set up your zones and you're done. The trouble is (and can be seen by the primary zone you've posted the question is) is that you're thinking like a network engineer, not like a storage engineer.

 

by: meyersdPosted on 2009-09-22 at 15:30:15ID: 25398193

Keep your SAN as simple as possible -as we discussed in your previous question on this topic, you are over-complicating your environment. Use VSANs if you actually need them otherwise, don't.

To pick up on an earlier comment, carnesc, the use of VSANs does not mean you don't have to configure zoning correctly. Appropriate zoning is absolutely essential in a fibre channel environment.

Also, beware of overlaying Ethernet constructs on fibre channel - they aren't the same. VSANs and VLANs are very different beasts despite superficial similarities.

Strewth! That's a magnum opus on an iPhone....  

 

by: carnescPosted on 2009-10-02 at 13:13:03ID: 25481657

Guys,

Sorry this response is so late. I thank both of you for being forward thinking enough to answer this question within the context of my previous posts, but this was exactly what complicated the answer. This question  was to be strictly interpreted on its own merit, not within the context of excluded  environmental details. I was merely testing some scenarios and was perplexed by Cisco Fabric Manager's seeming requirement of a transit VSAN, even in such a simple setup. I wanted clarification of transit VSAN usage only.

In point of fact, I am going to use VSANs and IVR and transit VSANs ...for reasons with which you both would likely disagree and agree. In other words, I would be willing to 'complicate' things upfront for the sake of what I perceive as better stability and fault containment on the back end, but my actual environment details have also added a second site, not to mention potentially additional administrative staff.

At any rate, I think I have my answer, at least in part. A distinct transit VSAN is not technically required when creating an IVR zone set, adjoining two VSAN-segmented devices on the same physical switch. These devices are what Cisco terms "adjacent".

20120131-EE-VQP-002

3 Ways to Join

30-Day Free Trial

The Experts

98% positive feedback on 31,087 answers since March 2000. angeliii is a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional for his work with MS SQL Server & Develoment.

He has also proven his knowledge of Visual Basic Programming, PHP Scripting and Oracle Databases.

The Experts

97% positive feedback on 10,752 answers since July 2000. lrmoore has more than 18 years experience in the networking industry.

The six-time Mircosoft MVPs specialties include firewalls, virtual private networking, and network management.

Testimonials

"...and excellent source for support... Kind of like having your very own IT dept." Electriciansnet

Testimonials

"I was apprehensive at signing up at first. However... it has already made my life as an IT administrator much easier." JaCrews

Testimonials

"WOW! You guys have great, active, and knowledgeable people on here." moore50

Business Clients

Business Clients

In the Press

"If you’ve got a question... Experts Exchange can supply an answer.”

In the Press

"...an invaluable aid for both IT professionals and those who require tech support."

In the Press

"where IT professionals provide quick answers on just about any topic"

Business Account Plans

Loading Advertisement...