Question

Best backup software for NetWare?

Asked by: bpl5000

We are running NetWare 6.5 and we currently using Backup Exec for our backup software.  It works fine, but the disk-to-disk backup is actually slower than our tape backup.  I'm looking to see what is available for file level backup of NetWare 6.5 (I only want info from people who are using the software and familiar with it).  Also, if we upgrade to SUSE Linux Enterprise server, will this allow for easier backups including disaster recovery?  Right now we can do a disaster recovery restore, but we would first have to install NetWare on the server, etc.  We have backup software for Windows that will even do a bare metal restore to dissimilar hardware.  Anything like this for SUSE Linux Enterprise server?

Basically I am looking for the best way to backup NetWare or SUSE.  Please do not post links... I would only like those who are using NetWare or SUSE to respond.
Thanks,
BPL

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Asked On
2008-03-10 at 11:00:03ID23229274
Topic

Novell Netware Network Software

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Answers

 

by: alextoftPosted on 2008-03-10 at 11:38:18ID: 21088958

We opted for Syncsort Backup Express. It ticks all our boxes. It will do bare-metal server recovery, but since we moved to using clustering it's been less of a priority. We run full backups at a weekend, then incrementals through the week. BEX manages and abstracts all the irritating, time-consuming aspects of backup/restore strategies and we just leave it alone to do its thing. The only thing to bear in mind is that the media server cannot run on Netware - has to be on Linux or Windoze. It backs up Netware server agents just fine though.

It costs more than BE, but it's nowhere near as much as NetBackup, as least it wasn't for our infrastructure.

Used to use Backup Exec, and it was ok, did what it said on the tin most of the time. As I recall it was capable of doing bare metal restores using bootable tapes (ie. boot off the tape, restore the server).

One thing you could consider to speed up your backups is to play with TSAFS /NoCachingMode and TSAFS /CachingMode. The former can often double the speed of full backups, whereas the latter is more beneficial for incrementals.

 

by: ShineOnPosted on 2008-03-10 at 11:53:39ID: 21089126

I second the motion on Backup Express.  If you don't have a really large setup, I believe they have a smaller, less-expensive deal for more of a midsize company.

If you can't justify the cost for some reason, the direct competitor to BE in that niche level that still provides platform support for NetWare and eDirectory, leveraging SMS/TSA's, and also with full support for Linux, is CA BrightStor ARCserve.  That's what I use at the moment.  Its backup disk-to-disk-to-tape isn't too bad, either.

I back up NetWare/eDirectory, SLES9 (32-bit) and Windows 2003/AD.  The latest version also supports 64-bit SLES.

 

by: bpl5000Posted on 2008-03-10 at 12:53:24ID: 21089777

Very good information.  Thanks!  Alextoft, I thought TSAFS /NoCachingMode is used to speed up incremental and differential backups.  Would using TSAFS /CachingMode increase my full backup speed?  The problem that I have is when Backup Exec writes the backup to a disk drive on the Windows backup server.  It's strange, but to tape, it backs up several hours faster.

 

by: alextoftPosted on 2008-03-11 at 00:43:50ID: 21093677

You're correct. It was a few years ago we figured that one out. Put it in the job Netware scheduler and forgot about it. CachingMode would speed up your full backup because you're enabling read-ahead, hence when the backup software needs stuff it's already been read into memory. With an incremental that's precisely what you DON'T want, hence the NoCachingMode.

Can't comment as regards using Windows as a media server I'm afraid, we use an enterprise-class OS for that :)

 

by: DSPoolePosted on 2008-03-11 at 17:05:51ID: 21101750

I am using Computer Associates BrightStor ARCserve for NetWare v11.1 SP3 and for Linux v11.5 - my experience is mainly with the NetWare side of things.

It does a fast disk to disk (assuming the disk is on the same server as the ARCserve engine - if not, then you should have an ARCserve Client Agent running on your target server to increase speeds).

I like it better than Backup EXEC (which I have also used for NetWare).  Especially the user interface and the NetWare NSS support options.

However, the Backup EXEC product has a better database scheme than ARCserve - which keeps everything in a single BTrieve database instead of breaking it out by job like Backup EXEC. Which means if ARCserve gets a corrupt database, it takes all the previous backup job info with it - unlike Backup EXEC.

Just my 2 cents.

 

by: BillBachPosted on 2008-03-12 at 06:20:44ID: 21105583

One more thought regarding your speed question.  Many NetWare servers default their volumes to enable compression on files that have not been accessed in some time.  A TSA-based backup direct to tape will read the data in this native compressed format and push the data directly to the tape, whereas when you copy files to a Windows server, the Windows server would never understand the NetWare compression format, so the files must be decompressed on the NetWare box FIRST, then moved across the wire in their larger (original) format.  The extra workload will drag down server performance during the copy job.

You can confirm this by enabling SET COMPRESS SCREEN = ON and watching during your backup window..

 

by: bpl5000Posted on 2008-03-14 at 14:56:52ID: 21129963

Bill, I was excited when I first read your post and then I remembered that I did not enable compression when I created the NSS volumes.  I checked the volumes just to makes sure... no compression.  I checked the backup speeds and the tape backups run at about 750 MB/min while the disk backups run at about 350 MB/min.  For those who have Backup Exec, what speeds are you seeing?

 

by: BillBachPosted on 2008-03-14 at 15:40:54ID: 21130246

What is your network speed between the two machines?  If you're getting 350MB/min, this is roughly the same as 3500Mb/min, which is also about equal to 58Mbps.  If you had a 100Mbps link, this would mean that you've got it about 1/2 full.  However, remember that communications is a two-way street, and sometimes we need to wait for ACK packets to come back.  Also, if there is ANY bad spot in the link, such as a duplex mismatch, actual throughput will be MUCH less.

Running the numbers with your tape system, (even being conservative and multiplying by 8 instead of 10) 750MB/min is a full 100Mbps, which assumes that you had 100% utilization of the line with NO interpacket gaps -- impossible.  

In short, with 100Mbps, I think you're right in range.  Over the wire, there's always a lot more overhead than you'd expect, and things degenerate quickly if there's even ONE packet lost in 1000.

If you have GbE, then I'd spend time researching further.  You may find that somewhere in the link there's a Cat5 cable (instead of Cat5e or higher) that's causing signal loss.  You should be able to see this with a network analyzer (like WireShark, available from www.wireshark.org).  Any packet retransmissions will show up as 1 big black packet in the trace, and you'll see a sizeable delay in the data stream as well.

 

by: bpl5000Posted on 2008-03-14 at 19:25:56ID: 21131101

Well we are running at a gig from the NetWare server to the Windows server, but I believe the disks (or tape drive) are going to be the bottleneck.  I have never seen backup software that ever claims speeds equal to 1Gbps (which would be 7.5GB/min). But the point that I'm trying to make is not that the backup is slow, my point is this...

I am backing up from a NetWare server to disks on a Windows server at 350MB/min.  Now from that SAME NetWare server to a tape drive on the SAME Windows server, I am seeing speeds of 750MB/min.  Why would backing up to the tape drive be twice as fast?  It seems that backing up to the disk drive would be twice as fast.

Bill, you make a good point about compression on the NSS drive.  If we had enabled compression, I'd be convinced of that being the reason.  But since we do not have compression enabled, there has to be another reason.  I am wondering if it has something to do with taking the data from the NSS format and saving to a NTFS format?  The tape drive would not use NTFS so maybe that's why it's faster.  I'm grabbing at straws.  I would like to know what other rates people see with Backup Exec.  If anyone is backing up from NSS to disks on a Windows server using Backup Exec, please let me know your throughput rate.  This information is available in the 'Backup Set Summary' in the Job log.
Thanks!

 

by: BillBachPosted on 2008-03-15 at 09:40:01ID: 21133285

Ahh -- now we have more info.  I was assuming, from your original post, that the tape drive was on the NetWare box, not on the Windows box.  That is why I wasn't worried about the speed difference.  However, if you're extracting data from the NetWare server to the tape on the Windows box, then this indeed is a different issue.

The next question this begs is this:  Are you using a backup agent on the NetWare server?  Most backup agents provide server-side compression BEFORE the data goes across the network.  Assuming an average of a 2:1 compression ratio (with many files being higher than this, of course), you would certainly see better throughput in this environment.  

I am guessing (though this is only a guess) that the backup agent compresses when it knows that it is backing up to tape, since the compressed data can be directly written to the tape in its compressed format.  (This is all a function of the backup software, of course.)  

I am further guessing that the backup agent decides, when it has to do a disk-to-disk copy, to skip the overhead of compression on the source and subsequent decompression on the target, since it would simply be wasted CPU overhead.  

Can you confirm this theory?  Certainly!  Run WireShark (www.wireshark.org) on the Windows box and capture the network trace of a 1MB file being backed up to tape.  Then, run it again and capture the network trace of the same file backed up to disk. Check out the data stream in both cases, and I bet you'll find that they are vastly different.

Of course, CPU's nowadays are so fast, perhaps it WOULD be helpful to still compress the data before sending it, and decompress it when receiving it.  My knowledge of BackupExec is somewhat limited (I'm been an ARCserve bigot using this software since ARCserve 4.0 for NetWare back in the early 90's), so I'm not sure if there are configuration options to enable compression for disk-to-disk copies, but I suspect that there are -- either real switches in the software or perhaps a hidden registry or config setting somewhere.

I'd have to bow to the BackupExec experts out here to take it much further...

 

by: bpl5000Posted on 2008-03-17 at 05:55:01ID: 21141666

Bill, would this mean compression is not done if I'm backing up from NSS disk to NTFS disk?  By this I mean is it not compressed on the NTFS disk?

 

by: BillBachPosted on 2008-03-17 at 06:08:40ID: 21141749

It is only a guess, however it seems logical.  The compression format used by NSS, NTFS, and the tape backup software are not likely to be the same compression format.  As such, I do think that the tape backup software simply skips the compression step.

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