Question

Configuring and Defining VLANS w/ QoS and Trunking on multiple Catalyst 3560 for new Mitel VoIP Installation

Asked by: wega1985

Until recently, we haven't really found a need to subnet or otherwise segment our small office network. We have Catalyst 3560 switches and a CAT 6 infrastructure, but aren't really utilizing it to the fullest. Now that we are wanting to install a VoIP solution, the vendor made it sound imperative that we segment the network with VLANS using QoS to prioritize the voice, understandably.

We have a Juniper SSG-140, which is a seemingly complex and capable router that is now only acting as our firewall and gateway.

We have two Cisco 3560G as our main data switches, an empty 3560 designated for our office phones, and a 24 port 3560 dedicated to the shop phones, all PoE.

Concerns:

1)Connecting/trunking considerations on the switches. We made the mistake of not getting the switches that can be trunked together in the rear, so have been using one patch cable between the two main data switches. We plan to connect the shop switch to the phone switch in the computer room over fiber. How should the rest of the switches be connected together, and how should these ports be programmed?

2)VLAN segmentation for voice prioritization. We don't really see the need to completely isolate the phone network from the data network, as the phones have ports in the back for laptop users, etc. If this isolation is a requirement of VLANS, that is fine. I have no experience with VLANS, but little experience with the Cisco IOS.

3)I read in some other answers that the core switch needs to be converted into the gateway. Is this necessarily true, or should we use the Juniper router as the gateway as we have been, and integrate the voice VLAN into one of its interfaces.

4) DHCP and other concerns. Defining IP ranges on the server.

I can admit I'm very new to the advanced networking/Cisco world, but would like to possibly try and tackle the configuration with some assistance. Keeping it simple would be great to start. I greatly appreciate any help.

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Asked On: 2008-09-05 at 08:26:41ID23706583
Tags: Cisco, Intertel, Mitel, Juniper
,; Catalyst, Netscreen
,; 3560, SSG-140
,; VoIP, VLANs, Firewall
Topics: Voice Over IP
,; Network Switches & Hubs
Participating Experts: 2
Points: 500
Comments: 18

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Answers

by: CoreyMacPosted on 2008-09-05 at 13:49:17ID: 22403660

This is a pretty complex set of questions with equally complex set of answers.

It would help to know more about the environment.

How many servers?

How many workstations?

Are all network devices connected locally to the switches?

What exact models of phones?

What exact models of switches?

What kind of functions do the PCs and servers perform?

..etc...

Any information would be helpful in what is really redesigning your network infrastructure.

A separate VLAN for the phones is really going to be helpful long-term.

by: bkepfordPosted on 2008-09-05 at 15:13:32ID: 22404304

1)Connecting/trunking considerations on the switches. We made the mistake of not getting the switches that can be trunked together in the rear, so have been using one patch cable between the two main data switches. We plan to connect the shop switch to the phone switch in the computer room over fiber. How should the rest of the switches be connected together, and how should these ports be programmed?

When wanting to pass more then one vlans over a line that line has to be a trunk. You setup a trunk with the following configuration.

interface Fastethernet 0/24
switchport trunk encapsulation dot1q
switchport mode trunk

I noticed you were worried that you did not get the stackwise if it is due to bandwith you can always combine trunks into an etherchannel like this.

========
switch 1
========
interface Fastethernet 0/23
switchport trunk encapsulation dot1q
switchport mode trunk
channel-group 1 mode on

interface Fastethernet 0/24
switchport trunk encapsulation dot1q
switchport mode trunk
channel-group 1 mode on

========
switch 2
========
interface Fastethernet 0/23
switchport trunk encapsulation dot1q
switchport mode trunk
channel-group 1 mode on
interface Fastethernet 0/24
switchport trunk encapsulation dot1q
switchport mode trunk
channel-group 1 mode on

2)VLAN segmentation for voice prioritization. We don't really see the need to completely isolate the phone network from the data network, as the phones have ports in the back for laptop users, etc. If this isolation is a requirement of VLANS, that is fine. I have no experience with VLANS, but little experience with the Cisco IOS.

Because you are using a Mitel solution for the phones I can not speak to how they work as far as the port in the back if it seperates it onto a seperate vlan. Cisco phones use CDP and specify a Voice VLAN on the same port where they have an access vlan. (I will pout other comments later need to go)

by: CoreyMacPosted on 2008-09-05 at 20:55:57ID: 22405687

The Cisco 3560 switches have some GigE connections on the right hand side of the switches and the 3560Gs have all GigE ports. You should not really have a bandwidth issue unless you have some VERY unusual traffic. The stacked ports between switches can aggregate up to 8GigE ports between switches and generally 2 of them are plenty for most offices. (really one should be...) 1GigE port = 125MB/sec and that is more than most networks ever see.

Those 3750 back-side stack ports add ~$3500 (list price) to each switch and if you dont really need it, these will be far less costly and can perform very well indeed.

Do the phones you use have a switch port on the back where the PC can plug into, or will the phones and PCs use separate ports?

by: wega1985Posted on 2008-09-05 at 23:16:29ID: 22406279

Thanks for the responses thus far -- I realize that this set of questions is pretty complex. Glad to see we didn't make a mistake by getting the 3560s as opposed to the 3750s with Stackwise.

I will try to answer the initial questions as best I can; more later:

How many servers? About 10.

How many workstations? About 50.

Are all network devices connected locally to the switches? Yes. Gigabit to every workstation and server. Some Linksys WAPs, with light use.

What exact models of phones? It looks like the majority of the phones we chose were the Inter-Tel Model 8520. http://mitel.com/DocController?documentId=26391&c=9512&sc=26389 I may have been thinking of the additional Ethernet port in a higher model phone, or with a different vendor, as the specs of that model do not mention an additional port. Like I mentioned in the initial question, the additional port is not a necessity if it complicates matters, and it looks like I was mistaken anyway.

What exact models of switches? 2 - 48 port 3560g PoE (data), 1 - 48 port 3560 PoE (office phones), 1 - 24 port 3560 PoE (shop phones)

What kind of functions do the PCs and servers perform?
Our heaviest users are the engineers which use a combination of Mechanical Desktop, AutoCAD, Solidworks, etc, and related file transfer. Besides that, the next heaviest use would be the ERP system and basic file/email use. Servers are file, domain controllers, ERP, print, fax, other small applications.

bkepford thanks for the response on the trunking. If nothing else, I can set that up now.

by: CoreyMacPosted on 2008-09-06 at 08:19:59ID: 22407808

I would reccomend you install some sort of monitoring software to watch your ports for traffic and errors... Whats Up Gold, SolarWinds, even MRTG can work. Cisco Network Asssistant can help out as well and supports all of your products. The more you can see the better you can make informed decisions.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/net_mgmt/cisco_network_assistant/version5_0/release/notes/OL12210a.pdf

Here is an article on balancing th Etherchannels
http://www.cisco.com/application/pdf/paws/12023/4.pdf

The release notes have several caveats for Intel Pro NICs and other issues you might find helpful.
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/switches/lan/catalyst3750/software/release/12.2_44_se/release/notes/OL14630.pdf

You should not need more than 2 GigE Trunks between the switches, but 4 would be fine as well... I would think that you might get additional boost by tuing the servers since a server generally has a rough time actually sending or receiving 125MB/sec that even a single GigE can handle.

by: CoreyMacPosted on 2008-09-06 at 08:22:45ID: 22407817

It sounds like the simple approach is to use the Phone switches for phones and make all those ports use the voice VLAN. The rest can live on the data VLAN with the servers. 60 machines in one VLAN is no problem. Once reason for the extra Voice VLAN is not bandwidth or QOS related and that is that the DHCP boot parameters for the phones are generally different from the PCs and it is just easier to separate them.

by: wega1985Posted on 2008-09-08 at 10:37:33ID: 22419620

OK, so we've established that the phone switches should use the voice VLAN and the rest can use the data VLAN on the other two switches.

Where should I start in converting our flat network to this configuration with the least trouble? I believe all of the switches are still operating in Layer 2 mode as we got them.

Does the main GigE 3560 data switch become a Layer 3 switch now? Is this where all of the VLANs are defined? DHCP IP-helper ? This would then become the default gateway, right? I think I'm able to understand all of the concepts, just not finding much information on how exactly to configure it.

by: bkepfordPosted on 2008-09-08 at 11:33:16ID: 22420106

Continued from first post....

As I was saying in the cisco world you would configure a voice VLAN like so. I just read that Mitel phones should support this

===========
Switch 1
===========
mls qos
auto qos voip

interface fastethernet 0/16
switchport mode access
switchport voice vlan 100
mls qos trust cos

3)I read in some other answers that the core switch needs to be converted into the gateway. Is this necessarily true, or should we use the Juniper router as the gateway as we have been, and integrate the voice VLAN into one of its interfaces.

It does not need to be the core switches. What they are saying is that for two VLANs to communicate you need any layer three device (anything that routes via IP address and maybe the router is the best place as it is your current default gateway. You could use a switch. For the switch the configuration would look like this. the second peice is what you put on your default gateway on the DATA VLAN to send traffic destined for the VOICE VLAN to make sure it gets to the right place. All devices on the VOICE VLAN would use the interface vlan 100 as their default gateway.

===========
Switch 1
===========
ip routing

interface vlan 1
description DATA VLAN
ip address 10.0.0.254 255.255.255.0

interface vlan 100
description VOICE VLAN
ip add 10.0.100.254 255.255.255.0

===========
Router 1
===========
ip route 10.0.100.0 255.255.255.0 10.0.0.254

4) DHCP and other concerns. Defining IP ranges on the server.

the easiest thing to do is setup a secondary DHCP server for the voice vlan and plug it into a port configured like so

interface fastethernet 0/12
switchport mode access
switchport access vlan 100

This will statically assign the port to only the VOICE VLAN

by: wega1985Posted on 2008-09-08 at 13:25:04ID: 22421177

Instead of using a second DHCP server, can't I use an IP helper to direct the requests from the VLANS, and setup a second scope on the original DHCP server?

I think it would be simpler to just enable routing on one of the switches...

by: bkepfordPosted on 2008-09-08 at 14:34:26ID: 22421871

ip helper-address is a IOS Router command I could not find it on the 3560 documentation. Now just because I could not find it does not meant it isn't there but to the best of my knowledge it isn't supported.

by: CoreyMacPosted on 2008-09-08 at 16:59:08ID: 22422864

Take a look here at the DHCP Relay Agent settings and you can see how the IP Helper works.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/switches/lan/catalyst3560/software/release/12.2_46_se/configuration/guide/swdhcp82.html#wp1096758

There are lots of ways to do this, but the basics are to either forward the DHCP requests to a central server or to let the switch that runs each VLAN act as a DHCP server...

by: bkepfordPosted on 2008-09-09 at 08:10:42ID: 22428215

Thanks CoreyMac for finding that I just looked thorugh the command refernce guide and it wasn't there. Good to know.

by: CoreyMacPosted on 2008-09-09 at 08:31:21ID: 22428502

Sure thing. The reference was not as easy to find as I would have expected. They changed the terminology and even though it works somewhat like IOS in a router, the docs show it very differently. I can see why you didn't find it in the Command Reference.

Imagine that Cisco changing the wording/syntax/documentation for the exact same function on two platforms... Drives me nuts sometimes why they can't get their internal communication channels working better.

by: wega1985Posted on 2008-09-09 at 08:47:11ID: 22428724

Well looks like I'm near the point of closing this one out and contracting the job out. I don't really want to spend hours trying to figure this out, take down our office network in the meantime all the while not being confident the system is ready for the phone installers.

This was as far as I got on the primary voice switch, but I don't think it's right.

Thanks for your help.


Current configuration : 14176 bytes
!
version 12.2
no service pad
service timestamps debug uptime
service timestamps log datetime
no service password-encryption
service sequence-numbers
!
hostname GWIVoIP
!
boot-start-marker
boot-end-marker
!
enable secret 5 $1$EhoP$H5ygH5vq.DvCiBguoezfP1
!
no aaa new-model
system mtu routing 1500
ip subnet-zero
ip routing
ip name-server 10.0.0.6
!
!
!
mls qos map cos-dscp 0 8 16 24 32 46 48 56
mls qos srr-queue input bandwidth 90 10
mls qos srr-queue input threshold 1 8 16
mls qos srr-queue input threshold 2 34 66
mls qos srr-queue input buffers 67 33
mls qos srr-queue input cos-map queue 1 threshold 2  1
mls qos srr-queue input cos-map queue 1 threshold 3  0
mls qos srr-queue input cos-map queue 2 threshold 1  2
mls qos srr-queue input cos-map queue 2 threshold 2  4 6 7
mls qos srr-queue input cos-map queue 2 threshold 3  3 5
mls qos srr-queue input dscp-map queue 1 threshold 2  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
mls qos srr-queue input dscp-map queue 1 threshold 3  0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
mls qos srr-queue input dscp-map queue 1 threshold 3  32
mls qos srr-queue input dscp-map queue 2 threshold 1  16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
mls qos srr-queue input dscp-map queue 2 threshold 2  33 34 35 36 37 38 39 48
mls qos srr-queue input dscp-map queue 2 threshold 2  49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56
mls qos srr-queue input dscp-map queue 2 threshold 2  57 58 59 60 61 62 63
mls qos srr-queue input dscp-map queue 2 threshold 3  24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
mls qos srr-queue input dscp-map queue 2 threshold 3  40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47
mls qos srr-queue output cos-map queue 1 threshold 3  5
mls qos srr-queue output cos-map queue 2 threshold 3  3 6 7
mls qos srr-queue output cos-map queue 3 threshold 3  2 4
mls qos srr-queue output cos-map queue 4 threshold 2  1
mls qos srr-queue output cos-map queue 4 threshold 3  0
mls qos srr-queue output dscp-map queue 1 threshold 3  40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47
mls qos srr-queue output dscp-map queue 2 threshold 3  24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
mls qos srr-queue output dscp-map queue 2 threshold 3  48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55
mls qos srr-queue output dscp-map queue 2 threshold 3  56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63
mls qos srr-queue output dscp-map queue 3 threshold 3  16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
mls qos srr-queue output dscp-map queue 3 threshold 3  32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39
mls qos srr-queue output dscp-map queue 4 threshold 1  8
mls qos srr-queue output dscp-map queue 4 threshold 2  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
mls qos srr-queue output dscp-map queue 4 threshold 3  0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
mls qos queue-set output 1 threshold 1 138 138 92 138
mls qos queue-set output 1 threshold 2 138 138 92 400
mls qos queue-set output 1 threshold 3 36 77 100 318
mls qos queue-set output 1 threshold 4 20 50 67 400
mls qos queue-set output 2 threshold 1 149 149 100 149
mls qos queue-set output 2 threshold 2 118 118 100 235
mls qos queue-set output 2 threshold 3 41 68 100 272
mls qos queue-set output 2 threshold 4 42 72 100 242
mls qos queue-set output 1 buffers 10 10 26 54
mls qos queue-set output 2 buffers 16 6 17 61
mls qos
!
crypto pki trustpoint HTTPS_SS_CERT_KEYPAIR
 enrollment selfsigned
 serial-number
 revocation-check none
 rsakeypair HTTPS_SS_CERT_KEYPAIR
!
!
crypto pki certificate chain HTTPS_SS_CERT_KEYPAIR
 certificate self-signed 01
  30820258 308201C1 A0030201 02020101 300D0609 2A864886 F70D0101 04050030
  3D311130 0F060355 04031308 47574956 6F49502E 3128300F 06035504 05130839
  33343335 45383030 1506092A 864886F7 0D010902 16084757 49566F49 502E301E
  170D3933 30333031 30303031 32385A17 0D323030 31303130 30303030 305A303D
  3111300F 06035504 03130847 5749566F 49502E31 28300F06 03550405 13083933
  34333545 38303015 06092A86 4886F70D 01090216 08475749 566F4950 2E30819F
  300D0609 2A864886 F70D0101 01050003 818D0030 81890281 8100D3C4 7DF2D5BD
  C60AC6A4 6FDEAACC F239110F 32C15637 BDB46C20 121D707C 86DD7583 1611AF93
  39588B2C 93231CFD 69FD21D8 0B9C2981 DF1DACEE 522FA473 06C2106A 183F86C7
  4F4E702D D58E1ED7 8F43FCA2 156400F0 A9504C38 705E3818 34E7F301 BE4C2834
  0DC10215 4428793C 7CBE881E 8F78A3B7 4423819C DD9ED577 789B0203 010001A3
  68306630 0F060355 1D130101 FF040530 030101FF 30130603 551D1104 0C300A82
  08475749 566F4950 2E301F06 03551D23 04183016 8014F1F3 C0AD9BEF 66C79AA0
  49D32E35 1F0F575D 8856301D 0603551D 0E041604 14F1F3C0 AD9BEF66 C79AA049
  D32E351F 0F575D88 56300D06 092A8648 86F70D01 01040500 03818100 B0EAADD8
  5B1496F6 80189FB3 E5218CB2 F9283671 3FA3671A E0DC6681 5EF61ADF A4F7D082
  FCA22784 83891683 D374D190 873D86FC CEC427BA 482718A2 64D8E7D7 F347791F
  1F1D1168 68C76564 E228B1B7 B176D8BD 6023E674 A8F30B1A BF464A4A 387AD4B3
  794088C1 6999349F 69FAF0E1 A01B1C77 FF58C20C A1BEB749 4932D398
  quit
!
!
!
!
!
spanning-tree mode pvst
no spanning-tree optimize bpdu transmission
spanning-tree extend system-id
!
vlan internal allocation policy ascending
!
!
!
interface FastEthernet0/1
 switchport access vlan dynamic
 switchport mode access
 switchport voice vlan 2
 switchport priority extend trust
 no mdix auto
 spanning-tree portfast
!
interface FastEthernet0/2
 switchport access vlan dynamic
 switchport mode access
 switchport voice vlan 2
 switchport priority extend trust
 no mdix auto
 spanning-tree portfast
!
interface FastEthernet0/3
 switchport access vlan dynamic
 switchport mode access
 switchport voice vlan 2
 switchport priority extend trust
 no mdix auto
 spanning-tree portfast
!
interface FastEthernet0/4
 switchport access vlan dynamic
 switchport mode access
 switchport voice vlan 2
 switchport priority extend trust
 no mdix auto
....
interface FastEthernet0/41
 switchport access vlan dynamic
 switchport mode access
 switchport voice vlan 2
 switchport priority extend trust
 no mdix auto
 spanning-tree portfast
!
interface FastEthernet0/42
 switchport access vlan dynamic
 switchport mode access
 switchport voice vlan 2
 switchport priority extend trust
 no mdix auto
 spanning-tree portfast
!
interface FastEthernet0/43
 switchport access vlan dynamic
 switchport mode access
 switchport voice vlan 2
 switchport priority extend trust
 no mdix auto
 spanning-tree portfast
!
interface FastEthernet0/44
 switchport access vlan dynamic
 switchport mode access
 switchport voice vlan 2
 switchport priority extend trust
 no mdix auto
 spanning-tree portfast
!
interface FastEthernet0/45
 switchport access vlan dynamic
 switchport mode access
 switchport voice vlan 2
 switchport priority extend trust
 no mdix auto
 spanning-tree portfast
!
interface FastEthernet0/46
 switchport access vlan dynamic
 switchport mode access
 switchport voice vlan 2
 switchport priority extend trust
 no mdix auto
 spanning-tree portfast
!
interface FastEthernet0/47
 switchport access vlan dynamic
 switchport mode access
 switchport voice vlan 2
 switchport priority extend trust
 no mdix auto
 spanning-tree portfast
!
interface FastEthernet0/48
 switchport trunk encapsulation dot1q
 switchport trunk native vlan 2
 switchport mode trunk
 srr-queue bandwidth share 10 10 60 20
 priority-queue out
 mls qos trust cos
 auto qos voip trust
 macro description cisco-switch
 
interface GigabitEthernet0/1
!
interface GigabitEthernet0/2
!
interface GigabitEthernet0/3
!
interface GigabitEthernet0/4
!
interface Vlan1
 ip address 10.0.0.5 255.255.255.0
!
interface Vlan2
 ip address 10.0.1.1 255.255.255.0
!
ip default-gateway 10.0.0.30
ip classless
ip route 10.0.0.15 255.255.255.255 10.0.0.30 permanent
ip route 10.0.1.1 255.255.255.255 10.0.0.15
ip http server
ip http secure-server
!
!
control-plane
!
!
line con 0
line vty 0 4
 password
 login
 length 0
line vty 5 15
 password
 login
!

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Select all Open in new window

by: bkepfordPosted on 2008-09-10 at 07:46:37ID: 22438888

Actually your config looks good except for the IP route statements and the default gateway.

You don't need

ip route 10.0.1.1 255.255.255.255 10.0.0.15

because the router knows where 10.0.1.1 is because it is a connected interface. I am not sure what the other statement is doing either.

On the default-gateway command this command is not used for routing. It is just used to help the switch internally find stuff. Use this

ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 10.0.0.30

by: wega1985Posted on 2008-09-10 at 08:05:38ID: 22439093

How come I'm seeing 2 different things on sh config and show running-config for the IP routes? I'm seeing a different default gateway on the different commands.

by: CoreyMacPosted on 2008-09-10 at 08:09:08ID: 22439142

Contracting it out might work fine, but be aware that there are lots of contractors that don't know how to do this correctly. It will still take several hours to get everything configured and tested correctly whether you do it or someone else does. (I would imagine you have spent hours on it already.)

I would be sure they have done this successfully with these model switches and the phone system you have. If not they will be doing the same as you would need to and run packet sniffers at each hop to ensure the QoS is working as it should under load.

I agree that you are almost all of the way there, on this switch.

by: wega1985Posted on 2008-09-10 at 10:01:25ID: 22440427

We just had a meeting with the vendors and they feel pretty confident with our configuration. He just wanted to look at the config file.

Thanks for all your help.

20120131-EE-VQP-002

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Configuring and Defining VLANS w/ QoS and Trunking on multiple Catalyst 3560 for new Mitel VoIP Installation

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