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02.20.2008 at 03:16PM PST, ID: 23179550
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Virtualisation of Terminal Services
Morning lads,

For those of you in the virtualisation scene - how often do you see full blown terminal server environments virtualised using ESX or MS Hyper V?

New POS and ERP backend that is going in will rely heavily on Terminal Services - rather than go and buy 5 full blown Term Servers, i would rather go a blade centre with some virtualisation of the TS roles....is this good, bad, ugly, doable?

Advantages & Disadvantages for those who have seen it would be great
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Question Stats
Zone: OS
Question Asked By: Jay_Jay70
Solution Provided By: PlaceboC6
Participating Experts: 3
Solution Grade: A
Views: 0
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02.20.2008 at 05:35PM PST, ID: 20944167

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02.20.2008 at 05:38PM PST, ID: 20944184

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02.20.2008 at 05:53PM PST, ID: 20944267

Rank: Guru

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02.20.2008 at 06:58PM PST, ID: 20944594

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02.21.2008 at 12:54AM PST, ID: 20946041

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02.21.2008 at 01:36PM PST, ID: 20952101

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02.20.2008 at 05:35PM PST, ID: 20944167
We have a HP Bladecenter running a terminal server on each blade in a Ctirix farm with load balancing so can't help you out on the virtualisation side but I would be careful in hosting all of the terminal servers from one server - if the server dies, you will lose all your terminal servers.
 
02.20.2008 at 05:38PM PST, ID: 20944184
yah thats why i would look ESX within the blade centre to distribute across hardware resources

out of curiosity, how do the blade servers perform with terminal services?
 
02.20.2008 at 05:53PM PST, ID: 20944267

Rank: Guru

I would tend to think terminal servers would run best on dedicated hardware and not virtualized.

Depending on what applications you are sharing,  obviously terminal servers are heavy cpu offenders when you start running numerous sessions at the same time.  Although a terminal server would function on a virtual machine,  I would think you could find the virtual machine might dominate the host cpu.  

I think the problem blade's typically have is that they don't have fast cache equipped controllers for the local disks,  so disk IO perfomance is dependent on an attached SAN.  Otherwise the cpu/ram performance aspect should be the same as a normal server and should handle a terminal server function well.  So the question about how well a blade would perform as a terminal server really begs the question as to what application is going to run on the server.   If it is a database app or something that is going to generate a lot of IO running reports or something,  you'll want to keep that in mind.

RDP sessions require very little bandwidth...compared to say a busy file server.
Accepted Solution
 
02.20.2008 at 06:58PM PST, ID: 20944594
hmm very good points - my idea and current planning at the moment will be relying on a SAN backend....

two options that we are looking at the moment - one is a UNIX backend with terminal server access for stores....data sits on a SAN ....the other is an SQL 2005 backend without terminal server neccesstiies....i guess i will need to spend a bit more time with the vendors to see what sort of usage their app takes....

Might look at keeping blades individual for terminal servers and maybe virtualise some of the less active and resource hungry server roles...i think there will be a stack of report running as its a complete financial, POS, ERP, Logisitcs and all the rest system.....very good points

Im thinking along the lines of a Blade Centre being a resource pool.....more servers i add, the more resources i get...virtualisation is something i am only just touching on as you can tell...
 
02.21.2008 at 12:54AM PST, ID: 20946041

Rank: Master

Running TS on a virtualization layer can work, but it also can be a huge problem. It al depends on the hardware you use, the applications that are running on top of them and the usage of this applications. A good preparation (understand the hardware, the apps and your users) will help in the final decision. Also if you make calculations try to keep virtual server with 1 VCPU. It is better to use two virtual servers with 1 VCPU than to use 1 virtual server with 2 VPCU (you can host more sessions).

What i've seen is terminal servers on physical boxes with exact copy's of the physical servers to virtuals. So the testing could occur on the virtuals (with snapshotting etc. this is a great testing environment) and the actually work was done on the physical hardware.

Also i've seen calculations of prices, that showed virtualization was cheaper with TS then on physical boxes (Vmware ESX was very cheap in this company because of discounts for educational customers) for the same amount of users and resources (1 physical server for 50 users against 2 virtual servers for 25 users).

I can imagine that virtualization of your terminal environment can give you benefits like DRS/HA, vmotion. And of course fast deployment of extra terminal servers (for extra capacity or testing purposes), which physical can't. But with bladeservers and scripting you can come a long way to achieve this same benefits.

Conclusion it al depends on your environment....
Assisted Solution
 
02.21.2008 at 01:36PM PST, ID: 20952101
Perfect Answer - exactly what i was looking for - Thank you Both - see you around the place :)

James
 
 
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