MSCE 2003

What are you looking to accomplish in your career?

If you are looking to go into IT Management, you may be better served by something like a PMP, ITIL certification, etc...

If you want to be technical, the systems engineering courses are great for entry level and gaining good depth in Microsoft. I am not sure I would go with 2003, since the push is more towards 2008 now... but either way it is a good starting point.

The current market is saturated in my area however, so some of the more specialized courses are better in the midwest. Examples are Redhat or other Linux cert, there is a high demand for VMWare certification, and Cisco or Juniper is always a sure bet if you go beyond the first level certifications. If I didn't have the MS and Cisco certifications, VMWare or Linux would be course of choice right now just because the push to virtualization is huge right now.

If you plan to stick in the Microsoft realm, allow your path to MCSE to take you through MCSA... Administrators are in more demand and placement will be quicker for you.

DBAs also seem to be in demand here in Ohio, specifically Oracle DBAs. RAC clusters, BI, portals, APEX, are all valuable skills.

Just some thoughts to think about. Alot of people have opinions on this stuff, and preferences abound, but it is good to have options...

Niall,
MCSE is the pre-2008 certification realm.  The Server 2008 family uses the MCITP.  You can get an MCITP in several fields: Enterprise Administration, Server Administration, Exchange Administration, etc.  As windowsmt suggests, getting ITIL or PMP will help you more if you want to go down the management track.  If you want a more rounded cert pool, there is also CompTIA certs, such as Security+.  In my experience, the more rounded the certifications the easier it is to get a job.
I also agree with him that you really need to decide what you want to do and where you want to do it.  In this way you can see the needs in the area and lean your certifications in that direction.
If you are just out of college, it might be good to get a help desk position, just to get experience in the IT field.  Of course it is easy to get pigeon-holed there, too, so you may want to avoid that.

Hi there,

  Thanks for the feedback, Ok I'm located in lreland, jobs are very difficult to come by. I completed my degree at night in college over 5 years. I did some IT contract work last year, which involved writing CSS XHTML pages for a corporate website rebrand.

  I do feel the MCITP would be the better option to go for. If I was to study for the MCITP full time, how long would it take to complete the course ?,

Thanks,

Niall Kelly

DRUltima is correct on the MCSE vss 2008 certification.

It is a great certification, but it will somewhat limit you. The certifcations on Network+, Server+, or A+ are great starters.

I can tell you that once you have a great understanding of systems and networks, some HIGH demand certs are CISSP, Security+, CPTS (Penetration Testing), and CEH (ethical hacking). Security has become the silver lining in this business and will get you into different operating systems, security protocols, practices, software and many other realms that are invaluable today...

I currently hold CISSP, CPTS and CEH and I can tell you that the demand is there for these skills. But you have the decision to make on your own direction. If you want more advice, contact me at windowsmt60@hotmail.com...

Developers are also in demand, but it has to be something that you are geared for... Alot of people are not.

Hi there,

  Thanks for the advice, I don't feel development is the correct area for me, I love to fix / trouble shoot
physical / logical errors with computers Macs & PCs. Yet a help desk role is not for me. I've been working with computers now ten years, it started with a DTP trade for a few years, then graphic design for a few more years, then college at night while working during the day, now I want some security / career prospects that can help bring stability as I'm turning 30 this year.

  In relation to what you said on the certs:

" It is a great certification, but it will somewhat limit you. The certifications on Network+, Server+, or A+ are great starters..."

   So in your opinion, a good start would be the MCITP, after which specialise with CISSP, Security+, CPTS (Penetration Testing),
and CEH (ethical hacking) ?, or start with the Network+, Server+, or A+ and then specialise ?,

Thanks for the advise,

Niall Kelly

It somewhat depends on your level of expertise. If you feel you have a decent handle on windows server operating systems and a good understanding of active directory architecture, then the MCITP will be fine. If you want to pursue this certification but you don't feel that you have a good handle on these concepts yet, then I would start with something like Server+ or Network+.

The MCITP can be daunting, there is alot of information packed into these exams. Gone are the days when studying a book could get you the Microsoft prized certifications. They were getting alot of bad press about "Paper MCSEs" who had no real experience but could make there way into a job by talking the lingo and presenting the shiny card...

So it isn't the easiest exam set anymore.

Server+ lays some groundwork across multiple operating systems, will get you a little (albeit very little) Linux experience, and some Microsoft exposure. Network+ is good if you want a good overview and advance your understanding of networking, protocols, router and switch functions, different transports and media types.

Again it comes down to what you want to do. If I were starting in the industry now, and based on what your described interests are, I think I would follow up my Bachelors with Server+ and Network+ through self study, would follow that up with either MCITP or CCNA, then move into a security certification.

The Server+ or Network+ will likely get you in the door... The MCITP will definitely land you somewhere if you are even halfway industrious. Then the Security certification will shoot you over that $100K mark and get you into the Fortune 500/100 world. If you want to go out on your own and consult for companies under your own name, then pursue the CISSP and CEH...

Hi again windowsmt,

  Thanks again for the in depth detail, its always great to hear comments from experts within the IT field. The paradox of choice can cripple a student into picking the wrong career path in today’s world.

  I'm going to get stuck into the MCITP, I'm a quick learner. I hate being out of work, it weights really heavy on my self esteem. Doing the MCITP full time, how long would you reckon it would take ?, also, is it best to take one book at a time, sit the exam, pass it, then move to the next book ?, I've also noticed that there is a huge degree of difference between home study books available,

Thanks,

Niall Kelly

Hi there,

  Thank you windowsmt & DrUltima,

  I'm going to pick up 2 second hand PC's so I can install the correct software and practice the exercises in the books, I'll get a TechNet subscription also.

  I want to really know the material, I'll do a test exam to make sure I'm up to the standard, also the experience will help, all my exams thus far have been hand written in college.

  I'll start with the AD config, and take it from there.

Thanks for the in depth detail,

Niall

The technet idea is GREAT! I have a technet sub, and if you have good bandwidth, the download only is very reasonable. You will get access to all softwares needed for the tests, and to run your servers at home in a controllable ennvironment.

One other suggestion, when you do, the first thing to load is Virtual Server... then put your servers and workstations in a VM... Make sure you take snapshots of the VMs. This way you can roll back quickly to clean states...

This will allow you to do ALOT of tinkering... Blow the systems up, play with AD, SQL or Exchange (whatever electives you choose) and get a great understanding of working with and troubleshooting.

Ultimately, this will give you the working knowledge of the systems you will need to get a job in the field (beyond just a help desk position.) If you need assistance or want advice, contact me anytime.

Hi again,

  Will I start a new question thread for this or can we continue the conversation from the above,

  I've been on the Microsoft site and under the MCITP certification I get the following at this link:

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcitp.aspx#tab2

  My question is which exam code is the " Ad Config " ?, or have they updated the course yet again ?, cause I can see alot of Windows 7 in there. Its also unclear if both exam numbers are required under " MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician 7" for example.

I'll remove this comment if its not the correct location for this comment,

Thanks,

Niall Kelly

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/exam.aspx?ID=70-640&locale=en-us
It's the first test listed under the MCITP Enterprise Administrator and MCITP Server Administrator.  It relates, so I don't have a problem answering it for you. :)
Justin

Hi again,

  OK from my count, I need to sit 8 exams in Windows Client, 5 exams in Windows Server, 3 exams in MCITP: Server Administrator, 14 exams in Microsoft SQL Server, 3 exams in Microsoft Office Project Server, 5 exams in Microsoft Exchange Server....

  I must be reading it incorrectly, I take it you must pick the exam codes in each section, so under Windows Client > MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician 7 > you pick either exam 70-680 or exam 70-685. What is the total amount of exam codes required to get the MCITP please ?...

Thanks,

Niall Kelly

Hi there,

  OK I just purchased the Sybex book:

http://www.amazon.com/MCTS-Windows-Server-Directory-Configuration/dp/0470261676/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268656337&sr=8-1

  It seems alot of the material is on special offer now, which is great. Would like confirmation on the total amount of exams required for the MCITP if possible.

Thanks,

Niall

Trick question...

There are multiple MCITP certification levels... Kind of like there used to be MCSE and MCSE+i, or in 2003, MCSE and MCSA...

For MCITP Server Administrator, there are 3 exams.

Exam: 70-642 Windows Server 2008 Network Infrastructure, Configuring
Exam: 70-640 Windows Server 2008 Active Directory, Configuring
Exam: 70-646 Windows Server 2008, Server Administrator

for MCITP Enterprise Administrator there are 7... These include multiple paths you can take, but here is the general list of paths available to you:
MCTS: Windows 7, Configuring
MCITP: Windows 7, Desktop Administration
MCTS: Windows Server 2008 Active Directory, Configuration
MCTS: Windows Server 2008 Network Infrastructure Configuration
MCITP: Windows 2008 Server Administrator
MCTS: Windows Server 2008 Applications Infrastructure, Configuring
MCITP: Windows 2008 Enterprise Administrator

Here are the typical exams that alot of people take:
* Microsoft Exam 70-680
* Microsoft Exam 70-686
* Microsoft Exam 70-642
* Microsoft Exam 70-640
* Microsoft Exam 70-646
* Microsoft Exam 70-643
* Microsoft Exam 70-647

Personally, I like the messaging or DBA track because it builds flexibility... But the last one is a good exam to have under your belt too...

But use your judgement.

Here is the microsoft site with all tracks:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcitp.aspx#tab2

The link you posted in http:#27628690 lists 15 different "MCITP" certifications, as windowsmt suggested.  They range from 2 tests to 5 tests to achieve.  
I will respectfully disagree that going for a specialization (such as messaging and/or DBA) builds flexibility simply because it can pigeon hole you.  For true flexibility, you really need your baseline (server or enterprise admin) in addition to Messaging and DBA.  This may be what he intended, and I may have misinterpreted his statements.
Further, MCITP Enterprise Administrator only takes 5 tests to achieve, not all 7 tests that are a part of the certification.  Again, I am sure that is what windowsmt meant, I just wanted to clarify.  There are some OR choices in there...
The 4 Mandatory are:

• 70-640 - Active Directory (MCTS)
• 70-642 - Network Infrastructure (MCTS)
• 70-643 - Applications Infrastructure (MCTS)
• 70-647 - Enterprise Administrator (MCITP)

You then have to pass ONE of these three Options:

• 70-620 - Windows Vista (MCTS)
• 70-624 - Vista and 2007 Office Systems Desktop (MCTS)
• 70-680 - Windows 7 (MCTS)

I hope that helps, and good luck on your first exam.

I agree with DrUltima...

My intention was as he states. You do want baseline, but as he did, the messaging or DBA can enhance your marketability. This is not to be taken as pursue the "messaging administrator" certification!!!

Get your Server, then Enterprise Admin, then build on that. I agree wholeheartedly...

This is what I did on the MCSE track, (MCSE+i, etc...) and it works great to expand you. But you need the baseline for full competence...

Thanks for the clarifying post DrUltima...

As a side conversations, that, to me, is one of the weaknesses of the MCITP certification.  An MCSE+messaging is the equivelant to TWO MCITP certifications (MCITP Enterprise Administrator and MCITP Messaging Administrator).  So, you actually have to have more certifications on the 2008 platform to get the same "level" of certification.  
While I don't see this as a problem, itself, for the last 10+ years employers have been looking for something else.  I have had my MCITP almost as long as it has been availible (I was even asked to teach cert classes at the local community college at which I took my exams due solely to the newness and the need of a certified professional to teach the class).  The problem is that for the last two years I have been trying to "instruct" recruiters on how to understand the MCITP certifications.  "They want an MCSE."  Well, technically I can use this title if I want to, even though that is not my cert, but because it wasn't on my resume, the robots didn't pick me.
I bring this up here because if you get your MCITP, it is still new enough you need to know how to build your resume.  I now include "(2008 MCSE equivelant)" parenthetically next to the MCITP appropriate cert.  Next to the Vista cert (MCTS), I include "(Vista MCP equivelant)".  This is approved usage by MS, because they recoginized the inherant danger in completely redefining their certification program.  In this way the spiders and robots will more likely see my resume.
Cheers,
Justin

I used to teach, and this has always been an issue when MS changes their system or nomenclature.

It became necessary to cover EVERYTHING on your resume... MCSE was no longer sufficient. Some jobs wanted MCSA, and while an MCSE is usually able to perform all responsibilities and tasks of an MCSA, bots would not find you without the MCSA on your resume.

It became necessary to include certification equivalence on your resume.

Initially, as you are breaking into your career, you will begin with a Skills-based resume that highlights your abilities and your education. This is a little harder to include the certifications and equivalence and to know what equivalence to enter.

As you move more toward an experience, and eventually an accomplishment based resume, your experience shows through the things you have done, not so much the skills and certifications that you have. This makes it much easier to position yourself in the "equivalence" domain...

For instance, although I pursued them, you don't necessarily need CISSP, CPTS, AND CEH, etc... unless you are using one to get to another. It would be like having a PMP, ITIL, and Prince 2... Yes, nice to have, but your experience in those fields make you competent, as well as accomplishments. The certification is only relevant in the discipline that is most advanced or used in your place of employment.

Hi there,

  Thanks for the intricate detail / breakdown of the MCITP certificate pathways, its a gray area for a newbie student like me full of questions and doubts.

  I understand what spiders and robots are from my web development experience, however, when you say the following: " In this way the spiders and robots will more likely see my resume..." are you referring to a site like Monster.com or are you referring to the Microsoft database of certified clients that emplyers may reference to view potential new employees.

I'm really looking forward to getting the book in the post now.

Thanks,

Niall Kelly

I am referring to recruitment engines such as jobs.com, monster.com, careerbuilder.com, etc.  I am also referring to the recruiters who both use these databases as well as build their own.  Spiders and robots basically are the same thing called different names in this case.  They search databases and webpages for keywords.  The problem with them is they are not that smart.  So, if an employeer checks on Monster "Must have MCSE" and you don't have MCSE in your Monster profile, even though you have MCITP in your Monster profile, you won't see that on your high probability jobs list.  Did I clear that up or confuse you?

Hi there,

  Thats crystal clear now, thanks for the update.

Thanks,

Niall Kelly

Hi there,

  OK my new book arrived in the post just now, since the MCITP material appears to be on special offer at present, should I go ahead and order all the other mandatory material from Sybex, are the other Sybex books the better choice on the market ?

* 70-642 - Network Infrastructure (MCTS)
* 70-643 - Applications Infrastructure (MCTS)
* 70-647 - Enterprise Administrator (MCITP)

  I can wait until I have passed the above before deciding on the remaining option, I'd like to do the 70 - 680, I'd tend to avoid Vista for really obvious reasons, how does the above sound ?,

You then have to pass ONE of these three Options:

    * 70-620 - Windows Vista (MCTS)
    * 70-624 - Vista and 2007 Office Systems Desktop (MCTS)
    * 70-680 - Windows 7 (MCTS)

Thanks,

Niall Kelly

Hi there,

  In relation to the 2nd hand PC I'm currently looking to purchase for the MCITP, do you experts know any reliable sites that provide such machines for an online purchase:

* PC must meets or exceeds the minimum requirements for installing Windows Server 2008
* At least 20Gb drive that is configured with a minimum space requirements and partitiions

Sample config below:

20Gb C: partition with the NTFS filesystem
Optional D: partition with the NTFS filesystem
15Gb or more of free space

Additional space can be allocated to partitions if it is available.

  Please advise,

Thanks,

Niall Kelly

Niall,
This should probably be a new Question, for future reference.  Because you are in Ireland and I am in the US, I can only give annecdotal ideas.  Most computer vendors have referb computers at relatively decent prices.  For example, you can get a refurbished Dell T100 for under $500 US:
http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventorySearch?c=us&cs=28&l=en&lob=POWER&MODEL_DESC=PowerEdge%20T100&s=dfb
You can also go to places like overstock.com or tigerdirect.com and look for deals there.  Honestly, because I have no idea about taxes and shipping to your location, I cannot really be of much help to you.
Justin

Hi there,

  I'm having big trouble with the try it 180 Windows Server 2008 install on the new server, can you have a look at the new question comment I have created please ?

https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/25695105/Windows-Server-2008-180-Day-Install-on-blank-new-server.html

Thanks,

Niall Kelly