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03.04.2008 at 01:00PM PST, ID: 23214038
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Windows Vista and XP, Active Directory, and user profiles

Tags:

Microsoft, Windows, Vista, Active Directory network

Hi Experts.

I have a problem with Windows Vista. I am using the Business edition of Vista.

We have just bought many new computers with Vista Business on them. Our network is set up with a Windows 2003 Server and Active Directory with Group Policy objects and roaming user profiles. We have Windows XP Pro computers on this network as well, that are being replaced for the most part with Vistas.

The problem is that previously, my users could log in at any computer and the server would load their correct desktop, Start Menu and My Documents folders. But when I log in with Windows Vista, none of the settings show up. Apparently (GRRR) the Vista profiles are *not compatible* with the XP profiles. (This incompatibility business is extremely frustrating).

I tried to follow the cryptic and complicated steps located in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/947025 entitled "Support guidelines for migrating roaming user profiles data to Windows Vista" but needless to say it didn't work. It involves setting up folder redirection for the folders you want to appear in your user profile. At the end of the document it states "the data from the original user profile will appear inside the folder in the new Version 2 user profile" but this did not happen. My user 2 profile folder is empty (\\SERVER\Users\<username>.V2). So was my "redirection" folder. (\\SERVER\Folders\<username>)

I tried to manually copy the information from profile version 1 to the redirection folder share, and it caused my Windows Vista computer to get this "Sync Centre" icon in the system tray and all my documents that showed up in the documents folder have little "sync" icons on them. Also when logging on or off it takes forever because now it has to sync. And to boot, manually copying the files into the redirectoin folder share did NOT populate the user profile version 2 folder.

So, I manually copied the files from the redirectionfolder to the user profile version 2. And then erased the redirection folder share (\\SERVER\Folders\<username>) (And removed the folder redirection directive in the GPO) But, all my documents disappeared (i.e. the user profile did not work). And the stupid Sync Centre is still there.

My questions are,
- how do I get my roaming profile to populate with all the files (Desktop, My Documents) on the server?
- Will I still be able to log into an XP computer and use my profile?
- Can I ever get rid of the Sync Centre?

I want everything to work like it did in XP, please help!!.
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Question Stats
Zone: OS
Question Asked By: x13
Solution Provided By: tigermatt
Participating Experts: 1
Solution Grade: A
Views: 254
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03.04.2008 at 02:16PM PST, ID: 21045720

Rank: Wizard

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03.05.2008 at 11:18AM PST, ID: 21053426

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03.05.2008 at 11:35PM PST, ID: 21058135

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03.07.2008 at 07:50AM PST, ID: 21071298

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03.07.2008 at 08:54AM PST, ID: 21072066

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03.07.2008 at 09:15AM PST, ID: 21072298

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03.07.2008 at 12:04PM PST, ID: 21073732

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03.07.2008 at 12:08PM PST, ID: 21073765

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03.04.2008 at 02:16PM PST, ID: 21045720

Rank: Wizard

1. You are completely correct in saying Vista profiles aren't backwards compatible with their XP counterparts. It's a bit like most of the new Vista / 2008 Server setup - things like ADMX files are replacing ADM files, Office 2007 now has DOCX, XLSX and other weird formats - and none of them are backwards compatible! In Vista, the only effective method I have found of having two profiles is to let Vista create a second profile - the version 2 - and sort itself out. Unfortunately this means your user settings and everything else stored in your XP roaming user registry does NOT migrate to the Vista station, so your background picture and other preferences are managed separately for Vista and XP stations. Unfortunately we just have to live with this.

As for the My Documents and Desktop problem, you certainly need to use folder redirection - but configure it server side on the 2003 server to ensure it is still compatible with the XP and 2003 server client stations. On any network you should always enable folder redirection anyway, since it gets all the user data (my documents and desktop being the main culprits) out of the roaming user profile, allowing it to be read straight from the server each time the user logs in. With all the user data in the roaming profile, profiles can become huge and you end up seeing very lengthy logon times for all that data to copy across. With folder redirection, changes are saved back to the server instantly (since everything works from the network share), which gives many benefits once you start using it.

I would give folder redirection another try. Configure it in a GPO object which will apply to user objects in AD. You'll need a separate share which users can create folders for themselves in (let the system do this for you), then I normally define CREATOR OWNER permissions on the main folder, to apply to subfolders and files, as full control (this allows the users access to the data). Using the default settings, after a gpupdate /force and two to three logon / logoff cycles the system will move user data to the share itself (the logon process will take some time to move the data). Once this is done and you log off, the Vista stations should then see the Documents and be able to access it just like XP.

2. Yes you can still use your profile on XP but you will have two totally different profiles for Vista and XP / Server 2003 and you will therefore have to make things such as wallpaper changes on both your XP and Vista profiles.

3. I've not found a way to get rid of Sync Centre yet and I'm sticking with it for the time being. I'd have thought it would be classed as Offline Files (like in XP) and be disabled automatically by my GPO handling that, but it would appear not. I'm still searching in the vista GPMC for a setting but haven't had chance to look over it properly. At the moment though it doesn't seem to be causing me too many issues.

Any more questions let me know.
 
03.05.2008 at 11:18AM PST, ID: 21053426
thanks for your response tigermatt but I'm afraid I still don't have an answer.

I am not really interested in using folder redirection because of all the problems and headaches it causes. I have been happy with roaming profiles and wish to continue using them. My users are not technical users and I don't know if you  have users to support but changes like GIANT green icons on all their files, popups every 5 seconds telling them their sync didn't go through ("what the heck is this sync message?") is only going to cause problems. Not to mention network traffic issues.

My problem now that I *have* tried it (Folder redirection), is getting rid of it. I have turned off folder redirection yesterday. Logged off and back on at least 50 times plus rebooted numerous times, I have completely deleted the shared folder from the server, run "gpupdate /force" and even moved the user to another OU and I'm *STILL* logging on to find the thing is trying to redirect my desktop.

Your answer to #2 is backwards. After much reading and frustration. Yes you can use shared "profiles" with XP and Vista but only if you use folder redirection. Two totally different and separate roaming profiles is not "sharing" the profile. For instance, a user's documents on each OS would be different. (Talk about confusing your user).  But I think my question was not clear here (can you tell I'm frustrated?)

3. I *HAVE* managed to get rid of sync centre, yay! I went to Control Panel > Network and Internet > Offilne Files and disable offline files. Presto! And - folder redirection does not seem affected. But the intrusive system tray icon is gone, finally.

So my problem continues. I need to somehow get Vista to use the profile I have manually created for it (by copying the contents from the XP profile) but, it's still trying to use folder redirection so I have no idea if it worked.

Once I get the roaming profile working, I may dabble in folder redirection (with sync centre turned off, for sure).
 
03.05.2008 at 11:35PM PST, ID: 21058135

Rank: Wizard

Well you may be able to create the V2 profile manually, I've never tried myself so I don't know. The problem you are going to have is that you will then have to write and set up all sorts of complicated scripts to copy the profile contents between the XP and Vista roaming profile, otherwise users won't have their updated My Documents in the XP profile, should they log on to a Vista machine  (for example). This is why Folder Redirection is the best method to get around this.

I didn't write my #2 answer correctly - it should be "Yes you can still use your profile on XP but you will have two totally different roaming profiles for Vista (the V2 one) / XP and Server 2003 (normal one) and you will therefore have to make things such as wallpaper changes on both your XP and Vista profiles."

If you've got rid of Sync Centre then I think you need to look back into folder redirection again. That's the only truly effective way of having documents in the profile roam between the XP and Vista roaming profiles. What exactly are the problems you're having with it - if anything I think it's the best thing you could ever configure.

-tigermatt
Accepted Solution
 
03.07.2008 at 07:50AM PST, ID: 21071298
OK .. I had the Vista profile working by manually coping the files from the XP roaming profile. It took some work though, mainly because once folder redirection was enabled I could not disable it except by manually editing the machine's registry. Of course having 2 copies of the roaming profile means the documents/settings available to the user would be different depending on the OS which is NOT good. ("Where did the file go that I was working on yesterday?")

So I followed your suggestion and enabled folder redirection. First I created a new OU and GPO and put the user in that OU, so as not to affect other users.

Now with Sync Centre disabled, there is no green icon and folder redirection still appears to work. Unfortunately I did not solve one of the problems I had initially which is that login time has increased substantially.

With no network involvement login time is 3 seconds. With roaming profiles it is 5-8 seconds. With folder redirection, login time is 1 minute 50 seconds (and yesterday it was initally over 3 minutes).

So... 2 questions now before I consider this resolved.

1. How to reduce login time to a more reasonable time.
2. How will the folder redirection affect the roaming profiles or vice versa? There is still copies of the users documents and settings in the Xp and Vista roaming profile location on the server. Should I delete these to avoid duplication? I still have profiles enabled.
 
03.07.2008 at 08:54AM PST, ID: 21072066
I am revising my questions from the post above.

I have found some errors in my event log and I guess this is a new problem that is not really relevant to geting the points for my original question. I will post a new question for this issue.

I only need to know, about what should I do with the files in my previous Vista and XP roaming profiles. If the system still needs them, what is safe to delete, etc. Basically related to my original question of migrating my user settings between XP and Vista. Now that I have to introduce the new method (with folder redirection) that I have never used, I want it to be set up correctly to avoid issues in the future.
 
03.07.2008 at 09:15AM PST, ID: 21072298

Rank: Wizard

It would be expected that the initial few logons after configuration of folder redirection would take quite a while. This is because at login time the system will sit there and say "Applying your personal settings" (on an XP station anyway) while it creates the user's redirected folder at the new folder redirection share and then it copies ALL the data across to the new share.

Assuming all the My Documents data has been moved across onto the redirected data share, and you are happy when users view the My Documents folder on a workstation that it is working straight back to their share on the server (not to the local profile) then I would say you could remove the My Documents folder from the profile. However, this may confuse things further since there is two profiles (XP and Vista), in which case the best way to set things up would be to delete both profiles and have the system recreate them. I know it's not the easiest action for some people to take (personally I love deleting profiles and clearing out all that rubbish, but that's another story...!) but it is the only solution which will work 100% of the time assuming there are no others underlying problems.

Make sure you have a backup of everything (or you do the changes on a test account's profile and redirected documents folder) before you start.

Any more questions?
 
03.07.2008 at 12:04PM PST, ID: 21073732
Thanks,

Regarding this: "best way to set things up would be to delete both profiles and have the system recreate them. "

When the system recreates the profile when folders are being redirected, does it still copy the contents of the redirected folders to the user's profile? Example, My Documents? Or does it no longer use/need that folder in the profile?

:-)
 
03.07.2008 at 12:08PM PST, ID: 21073765

Rank: Wizard

It shouldn't create a Documents folder in the profile at all - everything is configured so it works direct from the share on the server where the data is redirected to.
 
 
x13
03.07.2008 at 12:51PM PST, ID: 21074036
So what you are saying is, that it *is safe* to delete the Documents folder form the Vista profile and the My Documents from the XP profile because now, the systems will ONLY use/need the redirected folder on the server. (No use having 3 copies of the users files if 2 are not needed)
 
 
03.07.2008 at 12:53PM PST, ID: 21074044
Yes, they ONLY use the redirected folder on the server, but be very careful before deleting the precious data in a user's My Documents folder (make sure it has been moved to the server and is operational from there when the user logs on)!

I'm off to disable that sync centre myself now!

:-)
 
 
 
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