W98SE restart to MS Dos hangs

I'd suggest you try uninstalling McAfee altogether; there've been some documented issues with startup and shutdown related to McAfee (particularly version 4.0x).  I'd recommend updating to Norton antivirus once your system has stabilized.

Also, when you've gotten the problems resolved, I'd suggest you leave your Win98 setup in a small partition on your hard drive, and create at least one additional partition for your installed programs, data, etc.  Then on a regular basis, use a drive imaging program like Ghost to back up your system to that extra partition.  This way, if a problem like this occurs in the future, you can fall back to a stable backup of your OS partition.

Thanks for the response, Zoplax.  Moved from Norton to McAfee and have already uninstalled/reinstalled and upgraded to most current.  The problem did not arise from the McAfee installation, as noted above.  Plus, if none of the McAfee products are running, the same problem with the other entries result and the MS DOS Prompt still is not accessible.

I use ImagePro and image my hard drive so recover is no problem; all backed to CD.  

My goal is to understand the specifics here, having spent a lot of time isolating and troubleshooting and to fix the source of the problem.  Not at that system this morning, but hope to continue this evening.


Thanks,

Asta

Try this to set up an interim exit to DOS:

On the DESKTOP, create a new ICON, with these attributes:

Name: SHUTDOWN Exit to DOS

Cmd Line: c:\windows\command.com

Go back into the ICON under PROPERTIES ---> Program and make these additions/changes:

Working: C:\

Batch file: C:\WINDOWS\DOSSTART.BAT

Advanced:

(Check) MS-DOS

(Check) Specify

CONFIG.SYS for MS-DOS:

DOS=HIGH,UMB
Device=C:\WINDOWS\Himem.Sys
Device=C:\CDROM\OakCDRom.SYS /D:IDECD000

AUTOEXEC.BAT for MS-DOS:

LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX /D:IDECD000 /L:M
SET TMP=c:\windows\TEMP
SET TEMP=C:\windows\TEMP
SET PROMPT=$p$g
SET winbootdir=C:\WINDOWS
SET PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\Windows\COMMAND;C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM;C:\NORTON\NORTON~2
SET MOUSE=c:\imouse
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4

Besides all the great advice given so far, I have a more general suggestion.

Use TweakUI or similar to have the Start menu show up for 1-2 seconds.
Then just choose the command prompt if you Need DOS, or let it start for Normal windows.

You can install the latest version v1.33 of TweakUi from Microsoft
                    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsme/guide/tweakui.exe
See tweakui in the control panel .

I hope this helps !

devldr16  for sound in dos mode

http://www.driverguide.com/forums/sound/crea/messages/3964.html

OR

": devldr16.exe c:\windows\system\devldr16.exe All Users
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run
Uncheck via Msconfig | Startup \ Restart = NO!
Follow the instructions below then restart.
Disable "Creative SB16 Emulation" in Device Manager. If you have no interest in dos sound/games etc, then rename devldr16.exe to devldr16.bak and reboot. Use the "Cleanup" button in Msconfig to remove entry. You can disable SB16 emulation from your System Properties.
1. Click Start, point to Settings, and click Control Panel.
2. Double click the System icon, then click the Device Manager tab.
3. Click the plus sign (+) next to Creative Miscellaneous Devices,   unless the device category is already expanded with a minus sign (-).
4. Click Creative SB Live! SB16 Emulation to highlight it, then click Properties.
5. Put a check-mark in box that says Disable This Device In This Hardware Profile.
6. Click OK, OK again, and then Close. Note that this will disable your sound device in MS-DOS mode.
Be wary of this, in system properties there are many entries for a properly installed SoundBlaster, the only one you should disable is the SB16 emulation, disabling the multimedia entry that is paired with it
will cause you to lose the joystick.

Thanks for the input, will check this out this weekend when I return to that system.

FYI -->  Since first installing the Live! drive,  I've disabled joystick, disabled all DOS mode sound and the DOS Emulation driver for the Live Drive.  Only to edits and file management in DOS mode, want it plain and simple and minimze resource needs in DOS environment.  For these reasons, it baffles me completely that the devldr16 drivers continues to be loaded, nothing is calling for it that I've found.  Gonna search for all files on system calling for devldr16 to isolate further.

Also going to try removing all the items above that only appear in Safe Mode and are not reflected in msinfo32 in normal mode, then try the DirectX diagnostic run.

I'll get back to you when I return to the system.

Again, thanks.

Asta

Asta, to see where some of the things are starting from go to msinfo32, software environment, startup and see what the paths listed are

Asta,

It is great when we, who you have helped in the past can offer something.  Startup Cop -- www.zdnet.com/pcmag/pctech/content/18/08/ut1808.001.html
can tell you what is running (but not from where it is coming) and allow you to turn it off.

I've had much trouble with Creative products, and can find others with similar difficulties.  The forums are full of people who can't get the SB live products to work.  I have such a problem today, and would be delighted if your solution helps me.

Joe

Thanks, Joe....blushing.

I'll be working on this system this weekend (if work doesn't pull me away) and report back next week.

Thanks everyone for your help.  As regards installing third party tools, though, I definitely don't choose that route.  I prefer dealing with all systems problems right up front and personal without implementing yet more possible problems, especially free ones.

Anyway, hoping for a quick and excellent outcome by next week.

Back to work,
":0)
Asta

Sorry to say I had no time this weekend to work this, but had my daughter do some research and try some things.  Here's the update for today.

Rebooted to safe mode, removed all the following from Device Manager, and unchecked devldr15 in msconfig:

- Microsoft Kernel Audio Mixer
- Microsoft Direct Music SW Synth (WDM)
- Microsoft Kernel GS Wavetable Synthesizer
- Microsoft Kernel System Renderer
- Microsoft Streaming Clock Proxy
- Microsoft Streaming Service Proxy

Rebooted and W98 SE disk called, and items were reinstalled, devldr16 back as well.  None are there in normal mode, all there in safe mode.

Checked for all calling for devldr16, these results:
system.dat
APPLOG.ind
Hwinfo.dat
Applog.dtc
Optlog.txt
Default.sfc
Sfclog.txt
Devldr16.lgc
CreativeWct4760.inf
Ctwdm16.drv

Never used autoexec.bat, config.sys; rarely use DOS for anything other than quick checks on files, edits and the like, no need for sound at all.  YET, these are the contents NOW.... didn't add them, daughter just found them:

Config.sys mysteriously now has this: DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
Rem TShoot: DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS
Rem TShoot:
DOS=HIGH,UMB
rem TShoot: DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\setver.exe


Autoexec.bat now has this:  @ECHO OFF
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330  T6
SET CTSYN=C:\WINDOWS
C:\PROGRA~1\CREATIVE\SBLIVE\DOSDRV\SBEINIT.COM


Hopefully all this in conjuction with all I posted before will shed some light.

Return when I can.  Swamped.

Thanks,

":0(  Strange stuff.
Asta

Oh yes, forgot to add the INF file contents from above, which is obviously loading the DRV and the devldr16, but for the life of me can't figure out why I need it or why it keeps loading... doh.

; Creative Technology Ltd.
;     Copyright (c) Creative Technology Ltd, 1994-2001.
;
; Description
;  This inf file contains the following device for installation
;  Full-Feature WDM installation.
;  b. CT4760 - SBlive! Value  PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80401102
;
; Date     : 02 November 2001
; Revision : 2.25

[Version]
Signature=$CHICAGO$
Class=MEDIA
ClassGUID={4d36e96c-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}
provider=%CREAF%
DriverVer = 11/02/2001,3513.0
CatalogFile = wct4760.cat

[Manufacturer]
%CREAF%=Creative

[ControlFlags]
ExcludeFromSelect = PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80401102

[Creative]
%*EMU10K1.DeviceDesc%=EMU10K1_M3, PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80401102

[SourceDisksNames]
1=%DriverDisk%,,,

[SourceDisksFiles]
emu10k1f.sys=1
2gmgsmt.sf2=1
sfman.sys=1
ctlface.sys=1
sfman32.dll=1
eapci2m.ecw=1
devldr16.exe=1
devldr32.exe=1
ctwdm16.drv=1
ctwdm32.dll=1
sblfx.dll=1
devcon32.dll=1
a3d.dll=1

[DestinationDirs]
EMU10K1.CopyList        = 10,system32\drivers ; %SystemRoot%\system32\drivers
SFMAN.CopyList          = 10,system32\drivers ; %SystemRoot%\system32\drivers
CTLFACE.CopyList        = 10,system32\drivers ; %SystemRoot%\system32\drivers
SF.CopyList             = 10,system32\drivers ; %SystemRoot%\system32\drivers
Waveset.CopyList        = 10,system32\drivers ; %SystemRoot%\system32\drivers
DefaultDestDir          = 11
SFDLL.CopyList          = 11
SFDLLNT.CopyList        = 11

[EMU10K1.CopyList]
emu10k1f.sys

[SFMAN.CopyList]
sfman.sys

[CTLFACE.CopyList]
ctlface.sys

[SF.CopyList]
2gmgsmt.sf2

[SFDLL.CopyList]
sfman32.dll
devldr16.exe
sblfx.dll
ctwdm16.drv
devcon32.dll
a3d.dll

[SFDLLNT.CopyList]
sfman32.dll
devldr32.exe
sblfx.dll
ctwdm32.dll
devcon32.dll
a3d.dll

[Waveset.CopyList]
eapci2m.ecw
----------------------------------------------------------
REMAINING ENTRIES EDITED OUT BY MODERATOR PER EXPERT'S REQUEST TO MINIMIZE LOAD TIME.

Moondancer
Community Support MOderator @ Experts Exchange
----------------------------------------------------------

FINALLY, I can do a shutdown to MS DOS Prompt, but only after doing an End Task on the devldr16, and along with that remains the items that always showed up before with this problem when needing to do end task on all.  Some improvement, since now I only need to END TASK on devldr16.
They were:  winoldap, mcupdate, mcvsrte, devldr16 and systray.

I do have tweakui, but hasn't helped.  In fact, my daughter uninstalled it, ran into problems.

Hope I've answered everyone's questions so we can finalize this.

Again, thanks.  Back to work.
":0)
Asta

this may help some
http://www.techimo.com/forum/t9328.html
of course it may muddy the water even more (the last post on the page)

Have you tried removing it using the instructions supplied?

Yes, centerv, didn't help.

I'm putting this away for a month, just too busy and have no time to investigate any further, already spent too much time on this.

I am requesting Moderator assistance to award some of the experts here for their help, though not resolved.  That's as thanks for caring and your willingness to offer me your time and expertise.

Thanks again,

Asta

Hello astaec,
I understand you would like to change the question points for a split.  I will accomplish this.

Thank you
Computer101
Community Support Moderator

Thank you, Computer101, appreciate the help and quick response.

Since my daughter will be taking the next action on that problem system, she has chosen to start with the recommendation made by hewittq, and work from there.

I've posted points for your help also in this topic area.

If/when this is every fully resolved, I'll let you know.

Again thanks to all.

":0)
Asta

Points still waiting for comments by you, Joe.

Points for jbfstplk -->
http://www.experts-exchange.com/jsp/qShow.jsp?ta=win98&qid=20266589

Moondancer - EE Moderator

I have the same issue and have isolated the problem.  For me, the problem is my video drivers.  If I changed my video drivers to generic VGA adapter and rebooted I was able to sucessfully restart in ms dos mode.  When I reinstalled my nvidia drivers the system would hang when i tried to restart in ms dos mode.  According to mskb (microsoft knowledge base) the issue lies with the motherboards bios and IRQ assignments to the video card.  I have yet to solve this issue.

The frustrating thing is i know I have been able to restart in msdos mode before with my current video card.  A few months ago I bought a new network adapter and experienced shutdown problems, but was able to resolve those with a driver update.  A usb scanner installation caused similar problems but i was able to resolve those as well.  As for the current dilema - I'm at a loss!

I would be interested to know if your problem is also caused by video drivers.

concerning my last post...

I was able to fix the problem by reverting back to nvidia 29.xx drivers.  drivers 30.xx and 40.xx resulted in a hang when attempting to restart in ms dos mode

I hope this info helps you