Win98 on SBS2000 recognizes network but not 'net

aha!
The DHCP settings are different, but like I said, I really don't know what I'm doing here- how do I change the DHCP for the Win98 machine to match the correct one?

thank you!!

wait, strike that- it looks like I've got two network something-or-others listed here... one has all of the correct settings EXCEPT instead of DNS server, it's listing a WINS server.  What do I do?

what DHCP settings are different?  It depends on what setting is different on what you do.  If the DHCP server address is different then you get to hunt down what other server that has DHCP installed on it and smack that person in your office as you uninstall his DHCP server.

DHCP is as you said automatic.  The way it works is whatever server picks up the request and responds first wins :)

You might try simply doing a ipconfig /release then a ipconfig /renew but if you have a rogue DHCP server on your network that may or may not work and you will probably see other people come up with issues in the near future, when they get bad configuration settings from the rogue DHCP system.

If the DHCP server is the same on all the machines that work and other settings are different then hopefully the simple release and renew of the ipconfig settings fixes it.  If now you will have to check the settings of your SBS2000 server and make sure you only have one DHCP pool to pull from.

kaska: I would assume that you see DNS settings when you do IPCONFIG /ALL on a good machine, that see's the internet, is this correct? When you run it on the machine that doesn't see the internet is the only difference is that the dns is not there? If so then you need to right-click my computer and go to properties and then high-light your network connection and right-click it and go to properties and then high-light tcp/ip and go to properties then on the bottom click on use the following dns servers and enter the primary and secondary and click OK all the way out. This should have fixed your problem unless you need to provide a static IP or Wins. Dave

For the internet to work you have to have a DNS server listed.  DNS is the name to computer IP address resolver.

Instead of pinging yahoo.com try to ping 66.218.71.198 that is the actual adress of yahoo.com and if that works its simply a DNS error that you must resolve.

Other than DNS / WINS did anything else not match up?

Does DHCP Enabled specifically say YES on the machine that is not working?

emery800 he is using DHCP and that should hand out his DNS address to his machines, BUT you do make a good point to go check in the area you mentioned.  I do remember now that it is possible to setup static DNS servers in that area that overide or do not request from DHCP the address.  Check as emery800 suggested in this location but instead of hard coding the address make sure that it is setup to be DCHP assigned.

I realize that but interesting on resolving without knowing the settings, to know what they are missing! :>)

Ok, so the ipconfigs are now exactly alike except for the fact that the 98 still doesn't show a DNS server, but WINS instead.  

cowboy> I tried release/renew to no avail.  When I pinged yahoo the first time around, I used both the name and the IP address, with the same result.  The thing is, the machine seems able to translate to IP address, as when I enter a name into the browser, it shows the corresponding IP, but just gives me a SHDOCLC.DLL/dnserror message instead of loading the page.

emery> I set the DNS settings for TCP/IP exactly as they show on the XP machine, it seems to remember them, but yet it still doesn't show at ipconfig.

The 98 is set to "use DHCP for WINS resolution"- should this be changed? At the command prompt for the 98, I also get c:\WINDOWS> rather than just c:\> on the XP- would this make any difference?

And finally, from the SBS admin console, I do see several distinct differences:
When I try to view the event log for the 98 machine, I get an error message that the "network path was not found".

Also, when viewing properties, I can see the DNS for the XP box as <machinename.domain.org> (as if you really thought we were a .com at this point! :P), whereas I see absolutely nothing for the 98.  Yet in "member", both show as member of the domain computers.

In any case, thank you all so much for your help thus far- I'm off for the evening, but I'll be back first thing in the morning to follow up on tips.

Does the 98 box have AOL installed I found this in reference to your very issue.

http://www.reidinternet.co.uk/ca/getaol2.htm gets the credit for this one.  Even if you dont have AOL some of the stuff they say to do would have a decent chance of fixing this although you would have to do the reinstall of the components you deleted yourself most likely instead of the supposed automatic install that this AOL fix has.

If the URL window displays
res://C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\SHDOCLC.DLL/dnserror.htm

This occurs when the WINSOCK2 Registry Key and TCP/IP stack are not updated after an upgrade of your AOL software -or- if AOL parental control restrictions are set for the current account. This sometimes corrects itself so don't be too hasty.

BE VERY CAREFUL: Using the Windows Registry Editor incorrectly may cause problems that would require you to reinstall Windows!

If you need additional information about Registry editing, select START > Run, type  REGEDIT  in the RUN dialog window and, using the HELP menu, read the following three articles:

Changing Keys and Values
Add and Delete Information in the Registry
Edit Registry Data

Also note that you should back up the Registry before you edit it.  If you are running Windows NT or Windows 2000, you should also update your Emergency Repair Disk (ERD).

1. Verify that the AOL Parental Controls are disabled.

2. Remove all network components.
- Click Start and then Settings.
- Select Control Panel and then double-click the Network icon.
- Write down all the settings in Network properties for your LAN and
       Dial-up Networking (DUN) connections.
- Select each network component and then click Remove.
       (adapters, clients, etc.)
- DO NOT restart the computer if prompted to do so.

3. Uninstall Dial-up Networking:
- Click START and the Settings.
- Select Control Panel and then double-click Add/Remove Programs.
- On the Windows Setup tab, clear the check box next to the
       Communications entry.
- DO NOT restart the computer if prompted to do so.

4. Use Registry Editor to locate and remove the following Registry Key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\system\currentcontrolset\services\winsock2

5. Restart the computer:

6. Double-click the AOL icon and let the program rebuild the necessary
   components.

7. Close AOL and then restart the computer.

Hey there cowboy (typing from home now, pathetic, I know, but I'm obsessing...).  I had seen the site you're citing (thanks for the link, btw), but unfortunately AOl isn't installed.  In fact, basically *nothing* is installed, as it was fresh Win98 yesterday.  I added Outlook2K, and the user added his palm software today, but the problems existed before that.

Ok, off for the evening for real this time, as DH seems to think he's entitled to use his computer.  Unless I'm struck with a solution in my sleep, I'll see you all tomorrow.  Thanks!

You stated"Ok, so the ipconfigs are now exactly alike except for the fact that the 98 still doesn't show a DNS server, but WINS instead" Indicates you put the info under wins not dns, change this, IMHO. Dave

Hi emery,
You're right, that would make sense, but I'm afraid that this was a mistake of symantics on my part rather than technology.  The DNS is set the same as on a working machine, but just doesn't show after ipconfig.  Unlike on an XP box, it shows WINS (which corresponds to one of the three DNS addresses).  Strangely enough, however, doing ipconfig/all on the lone working 98 machine (which I couldn't get to until today) ALSO shows WINS rather than DNS, yet works fine.

I'm at a total loss...  what are the chances of demonic possession?

At this point I vote demonic possession.  After all it IS a microsoft product :)

Just curious how close to the limit of licenses for you SBS2000 server you are?  I know that SBS is a little more picky on licenses then a standard windows box is.

Just want to ask directly as well if this has been done

1) Click Start, point to Settings, click Control Panel, and then double-click Network.
2) On the Configuration tab, click TCP/IP, and then click Remove. Repeat this step for each instance of TCP/IP before continuing to step 3.
3) Click OK, and then click Yes when you are prompted to restart your computer.
4) Click Start, point to Settings, click Control Panel, and then double-click Network.
5) Click Protocol, click Add, click Microsoft in the Manufacturers box, click TCP/IP, and then click OK.

NOTE: If receive version conflict error messages during this process, click No when you are prompted to keep a newer version of the file.
6) Restart your computer.
7) If these steps do not resolve this behavior, repeat the steps, but remove and reinstall all installed network components.

Oh and I would even if you have to download from another machine and copy accross the network do the following:

Update 98 to SP2
Update your IE service pack or IE altogether
Update outlook or office service pack if installed with office.

The idea here being I think we have a mismatched file set somewhere in the TCP/IP stack thats causing our issue.  I now no longer believe this is a DNS or networking issue.  I wish you had a internal web site you could try to hit to test my theory.

Thanks cowboy- I got as far as #7 and freaked- I removed all installed network components and when rebooting got the following message:
DOS SYSTEM FILE- NOT FOUND

My choices are :
A) Accept 'I know why the settings changed and wish to save them
I) Ignore 'keep old settings and remind me next time
Q) I wish to quit and verify why these settings changed.

This may have been what you meant with a version conflict error message (remember, I'm not a sysadmin, nor do I play one on TV), but that message made me nervous.  I left the computer there, and am awaiting further instruction from someone who knows what (s)he's doing....

Incidentally, when the engineer installed 98 two days ago, he saved the installation disk to the c drive "so you don't have to go looking for it when prompted".  Would this affect anything?

And just in case, what kind of IT professionals are qualified to perform exorcisms?

Thanks cowboy- I got as far as #7 and freaked- I removed all installed network components and when rebooting got the following message:
DOS SYSTEM FILE- NOT FOUND

My choices are :
A) Accept 'I know why the settings changed and wish to save them
I) Ignore 'keep old settings and remind me next time
Q) I wish to quit and verify why these settings changed.

This may have been what you meant with a version conflict error message (remember, I'm not a sysadmin, nor do I play one on TV), but that message made me nervous.  I left the computer there, and am awaiting further instruction from someone who knows what (s)he's doing....

Incidentally, when the engineer installed 98 two days ago, he saved the installation disk to the c drive "so you don't have to go looking for it when prompted".  Would this affect anything?

And just in case, what kind of IT professionals are qualified to perform exorcisms?

Ok to be honest without being there not sure what is poping this message up.  My first guess however would be your outlook.

We know why the settings changed (We removed your components) so click (A) Accept.  We also want the changes to affect things thats our point in removing these components so that should be our best option.

Ok, so 1)-7) completed and still no internet.  Will upgrade to SP2 and IE6 this afternoon to see what happens.  Considering a stiff drink with lunch...

:>)

oof.
It seems I can't even find the SP2. And I know what you're thinking, and no, I didn't have that drink. (Plus I'm still a little ticked that I had to install *all* available updates on my XP machine before microsoft would let me see the "update catalog" it appears I need to use in order to download service patch for a different machine.)
 
Fine.  
Did it.

From http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/default.asp I click:
See windows update catalog> Find updates for MS OS systems, select Windows 98, then search, upon which I'm given a very tempting menu selection including "Critical updates and service packs".  Yet the only one of my 44 options that includes the word "service pack" seems to be for .Net framework, and I can't see that this would be what I want.

Now I'm perfectly willing to concede the fact that I'm an idiot, but as they apparently allow morons to write software, you'd think they'd make it just as easy for morons to download software.

ugh.

<sidenote> I've been turning to my college alumni listserv for help as well, felt bad for the snarky software engineer comment, and received the following response:
"
NB: was not trying to insult any software designers here...

It is not possible to insult a software designer, unless you are a fellow software designer and impugn the quality of the first designer's code.  Verbal or written input from non-developers is considered random noise and routed appropriately.
"

so cutting back on the "random noise" for now, and waiting for our consultant to return next Thursday...  Thanks!
</sidenote>

ok I must have been smoking crack when I said SP2 because I cant find one either.  I swear there was one but I want the files replaced more that I care what the SP is.  You can find SP1 here

http://www.softwarepatch.com/windows/win98sp1.html

Just FYI to.  DO NOT APPLY this if the version you are running is Windows 98 Second Edition.  I believe the CD you installed from will tell you if its that version or not on the actual disk itself.

Hey cowboy-
You're not crazy, I saw references to SP2 all over the web but couldn't find it anywhere.  SP1 installed, 98 box still refusing to cooperate.  Going to have to spend the evening with the other non-working 98 (Outlook problems, and hopefully something I can fix without bothering people here...)

Seems like the staff time we've got in with this bloody thing could have paid for a whole new machine.  I'm hoping to get back to my "real" job soon (which is, ironically enough, fund raising), but I'll be keeping an eye out for further ideas.

Thank you!!!!

I dreamt about this machine last night, but unfortunately fate didn't slip me any clues about what might be wrong.  I've tried each and every suggestion thus far- does anyone have any additional tricks to try?

kaska at this point I think considering you said this was a recent install of windows that your best bet is again to reinstall windows.

I can probably keep thinking stuff up but all the good stuff that should have work I have run out of myself, unless others have any good suggestions.

If you do the reinstall FYI do not install over the top.  At the very least format and reinstall but I would even FDISK if it were up to me.  This way we know that ALL the old files are gone and if it was a mismatch it should not longer be.  And try the connection before you install anything at all.  Even word/outlook.

The only thing I can think of is that you did say after you made the changes I suggested above is that they showed up under wins not dns, did you delete them from wins and put them in dns? Dave

Hi Dave,
Even though I know I entered the DNS settings as shown on a working machine, an ipconfig still shows the WINS setting (which appears to be the first of the assigned DNS) instead.  As this is exactly what shows on a *working* 98 machine, I thought it might not be indicative of the problem.

In any case, I'm likely to be at the office over the weekend, and will try reformatting (again) and starting from a fresh install of Win 98.  

It's become a matter of principal now, and I can't accept the fact that a lowly Win98 might get the best of me. ;)

I promise to keep you all updated...

:>)

UPDATE:
(and no, it's still not working, but I got this note from our consultant today...):
"In regards to the issue with the 98 machine not getting out to the web.  I don't know if you remember, but I dealt with this when we had a 98 loaner out there.  It seems that it just won't save the proxy settings or something.  When you turn off Proxy in Internet Explorer - Tools - Options - Connections - Lan Settings - Proxy.  For some
reason it will not save the changes.  When you go back in to check iff the changes stuck, they haven't.  Steve and I both are not sure what is going on.  And when we had the same problem with the loaner, we just thought it was a fluke with our loaner on your network, and since there was a new one on the way, the new one would work.  I am going to try to do more research on the issue to find out if I can find a fix or if anyone else has had that problem that I can talk to about fixing it.  You are exactly correct in
your troublshooting and it's helpful to pinpoint the issues."

Note that *you all* were exactly right in your troubleshooting! ;)  So if anyone has an idea about why the proxy settings aren't being saved, please pass on the information.

thanks,
-Kaska

If you put a checkmark in lan settings and put the address and port in it will not retain the settings?
http://www.tafe.sa.edu.au/lsrsc/oes/supp/browser.htm

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q314645

Try booting into safemode and setup the proxy settings there.

To enter safemode reboot computer and tap the F8 key from the get go.

Proxy now accepting settings, but still no change in computer.  This one's killing me.

Could this be a firewall issue?  Client computer is given a higher IP address than others on the network (i.e. 10.0.0.48), and wondering if that could be the problem.  

Starting to think this thing would be more useful as a doorstop....

I would go to a good machine and at a windows dos prompt do a tracert www.yahoo.com  and see what you get for route and then do it on the machine that isn't working and see how far you get. It appears something on your network may be stopping it. Dave

higher how.  Please post the subnet mask and ipadress of one that is "low" and one that is "high"

Thanks

Hello all,
I am eecomputings, a Moderator at Experts-Exchange and also an Expert within this topic area. This question has been open a long time and needs to be closed.  What I am going to do is allow feedback from the questioner and Experts for the next 7 days.  If the questioner has not come back to award the points, I will either delete the question, or send it to the PAQs worth zero points, or award an answer based on the info I have been given. Experts, please recommend a resolution for this question.  I will monitor this question for the next 7 days and come back and evaluate.

Questioner, please do NOT accept my comment as the answer!

Thank you
eecomputings
E-E Moderator

Update:
We called in the consultant who determined the problem was not with the Win98 box, but the firewall.  By rebooting the firewall the problem was solved.

-K

:>)