Question

What is user NONE?

Asked by: EDDYKT

Does any one know what is the user none?
I query the local user account and get the user called none.
But i don't have this user defined on my user account.

I know SYSTEM, authenticated user, network etc is internal defined by Windows.
But what is user NONE?

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Asked On
2009-08-27 at 09:11:21ID24687164
Topics

Windows XP Operating System

,

Windows NT Operating System

,

Windows Vista

,

Microsoft Windows Operating Systems

Participating Experts
3
Points
500
Comments
12

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Answers

 

by: dfkePosted on 2009-08-27 at 13:15:52ID: 25202211

You system could somehow be compromised. Disable the account or best is to just remove it. Scan your system for virii , spyware and trojans just to be sure.

 

by: EDDYKTPosted on 2009-08-27 at 13:52:11ID: 25202586

it happens on all the machines that i tried.
Don't think it is virus.

However i cannot find any doc talking about NONE user

 

by: EDDYKTPosted on 2009-08-31 at 11:38:19ID: 25225194

If you bring up the explorer,
bring up properties on any folder and then select security tab.

Click Add ... button and then type NONE on
Enter the object names to select field
(make sure the location is pointed to your own machine)

and then click ok.

You will see ComputerName\None user is added to the user list.

Strange.

 

by: BillDLPosted on 2009-09-01 at 01:03:18ID: 25229357

Strange.  I must look into this.  It isn't a problem isolated to your system.  Same on my Windows XP Pro SP3.

  • User-None.jpg
    • 96 KB

    Folder permissions using same method as comment ID 25225194

    Folder permissions using same method as comment ID 25225194
 

by: Darr247Posted on 2009-09-01 at 08:50:06ID: 25232817

None isn't there by default. After clicking Add, entering None and using Check Names, just click Cancel and it should not be added to the list of users, and would have continued being covered by the permissions for the Everyone group (which by default does not include Full Control)... but the Allow boxes should have matched the permissions given to the Everyone group (where it came from) when adding it.  If you delete that specific username, it will go back to being covered by the Everyone group's permissions.

As you're digging, you might also notice there's a Group named None.
e.g. click the Advanced button on that dialog, go into Object Types to uncheck all but Groups, OK back out then Check Names on 'None' (with only "Groups" in the top field) and you'll find that group name too.  :-)

 

by: Darr247Posted on 2009-09-01 at 08:55:05ID: 25232870

Hah... that's what it IS - i.e. only a group name... if you check only Users in that dialog (uncheck the other 2), the None name will not be found.

 

by: EDDYKTPosted on 2009-09-01 at 09:04:54ID: 25232989

yes, you are right,

NONE is the group not the user.

But what is that none group doing?
why MS create that none group for?

From BillDL attached diagram, None is group too

 

by: BillDLPosted on 2009-09-02 at 03:37:08ID: 25239563

OK, so it won't show anywhere, no matter how hard you try or how many Windows dialogs you inspect, eg. (my standalone PCs Username is DC845WN)

C:\>net localgroup

Aliases for \\DC845WN

-----------------------------------
*Administrators
*Backup Operators
*Guests
*HelpServicesGroup
*Network Configuration Operators
*Power Users
*Remote Desktop Users
*Replicator
*Users
The command completed successfully.

I don't see a Group named NONE, which is why I was puzzled.

Kit Skinner asked the same question here, and it's a damned good question to which I certainly don't fully know the answer and nobody did there either:
http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/sf/ms/2001-q1/0154.html

Good plain english explanations of SIDs (Security Identifiers):
http://kb.iu.edu/data/aotl.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_Identifier

More in-depth:
http://servermigrator.blogspot.com/2006/02/why-understanding-sids-is-important.html

Well known SIDs in Windows:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/243330
Scroll down to this one in the above page:

SID: S-1-5-domain-513
Name: Domain Users
Description: A global group that, by default, includes all user accounts in a domain. When you create a user account in a domain, it is added to this group by default.

Take particular note of that "513" RID (Relative ID - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_ID) at the end of the above SID and then run the SECTOK.EXE utility program by Joe Richards:

SecTok - Command line tool to display parts of the process token of current process. (WinNT to Vista).
http://www.joeware.net/freetools/tools/sectok/index.htm
Displays the user SID and name of the current token and all sids/names of groups that token has.

This utility should display the NONE Group's SID when run from the command line with no parameters, or redirected to a text file:
sectok > report.txt

My results on a standalone XP system - see the "513" RID at the end?:

User: S-1-5-21-527237240-1715567821-1606980848-1003 - DC845WN\Bill

Group: S-1-1-0 - Everyone
Group: S-1-2-0 - LOCAL
Group: S-1-5-11 - NT AUTHORITY\Authenticated Users
Group: S-1-5-21-527237240-1715567821-1606980848-513 - DC845WN\None
Group: S-1-5-32-544 - BUILTIN\Administrators
Group: S-1-5-32-545 - BUILTIN\Users
Group: S-1-5-4 - NT AUTHORITY\INTERACTIVE
Group: S-1-5-5-0-55070 - Logon Session

According to this page (related to Cygwin):
http://www.cygwin.com/cygwin-ug-net/ntsec.html

GID 513 is of special interest. This GID is a well known group with different naming in local systems and domains.  Outside of domains the group is named 'None' (`Kein' in German, `Aucun' in French, etc.), in domains it is named 'Domain Users'.  Unfortunately, the group `None' is never shown in the user admin tool outside of domains.

This is an interesting discussion about Windows Local vs Domain SID Cloning Issues, the lead-in part being the most universally related to this general issue:
http://www.excaliburtech.net/archives/117

 

by: EDDYKTPosted on 2009-09-02 at 18:55:57ID: 31621314

It's really interesing. I hope it will not create any security hole on the MS machine.

8->

 

by: BillDLPosted on 2009-09-02 at 23:57:23ID: 25248341

Thank you EDDYKT.

20120131-EE-VQP-002

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