Question

netlogon service

Asked by: dbrannigan

When i authenicate with my DC (ie upon logon) I understand that the netlogon service is involved in that it creates a secure channel etc, the netlogon service is started on both the client and of course the dc

however I have a few xp machines in a workgroup, i connect using \\machine\drive$ process, and supplying a valid username and password on the destination machine. However I have noticed that the netlogon service on machines in a workgroup is not started (and won't start manually), why is this? I would hope that the authencation process would be secure (challenge response) and netlogon would be involved?

Any ideas

Ta

This Question has been solved and asker verified All Experts Exchange premium technology solutions are available to subscription members.

Subscribe now for full access to Experts Exchange and get

Instant Access to this Solution

  • Plus...
  • 30 Day FREE access, no risk, no obligation
  • Collaborate with the world's top tech experts
  • Unlimited access to our exclusive solution database
  • Never be left without tech help again

Subscribe Now

Asked On
2004-06-03 at 03:42:04ID21011765
Tags

netlogon

,

workgroup

,

channel

,

service

Topic

Operating Systems Miscellaneous

Participating Experts
3
Points
125
Comments
8

Trusted by hundreds of thousands everyday for fast, accurate and reliable tech support.

  • "The time we save is the biggest benefit of Experts Exchange to Warner Bros. What could take multiple guys 2 hours or more each to find is accessed in around 15 minutes on Experts Exchange." Mike Kapnisakis, Warner Bros.
  • "Our team likes having a resource that is more secure than just using Google and most experts using this service really know their stuff. It's nice to look here first versus using Google." Dayna Sellner, Lockheed Martin
  • "Anytime that I've been stumped with a problem, 9 out of 10 times Experts Exchange has either the accepted solution or an open discussion of the potential solution to the problem." Kenny Red, eBay Inc.

See what Experts Exchange can do for you.

Got a question?

We've got the answer.

Experts Exchange has been collecting answers to technology questions since 1996…3 million and counting! If you have a question, chances are we already have your answer.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Need individual assistance?

Our experts are ready to help.

If you can't find the exact answer you're looking for, ask our exclusive community of 50,000 experts. You’ll get a personalized answer from a trusted professional.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Want to learn from the best?

Read articles from industry experts.

Thousands of free tech tips, tricks, how-to’s and tutorials are available in our peer reviewed articles section. See for yourself how smart our experts are, no login required.

Screenshot of an Article

Working on a long term project?

Store your work and research.

Save solutions to your questions, answers you’ve discovered through searching plus helpful articles in your personal knowledgebase for easy future access.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Access the answers to your technology questions today.

Subscribe Now

30-day free trial. Register in 60 seconds.

What Makes Experts Exchange Unique?

Members of the expert community talk about why the experience at Experts Exchange is different than what you will find anywhere else.

Trusted by the world's most respected brands.

image of each brand's logo

Faithfully serving IT professionals since 1996.

Experts Exchange Logo

Try it out and discover for yourself.

Subscribe Now

30-day free trial. Register in 60 seconds.

Related Solutions

  1. netlogon not installed.
    I have a 2000 prem machine to connect to a network. but on login it says the domain name yet on entering user details it says netlogon not installed. how do I do this?
  2. Netlogon error
    About a month ago I had to reinstall our domain on a new server as well as Active Directory. Awhile ago Istarted getting the following error in the event viewer: Event ID: 5788 Source: NETLOGON Error Message: Attempt to update HOST Service Principal Names (SPNs) of the ...
  3. NETLOGON not replicating
    Built a new domain controller on an exisiting domain that has been running for over two years with no problems. When I promoted the machine to a DC it got all our logon scripts replicated to it. However, any new changes to a logon script are not replicated to it and vice ve...
  4. netlogon
    I have a small office network with xp computers and 2000 computers. One server running Windows 2003 Server. On one of my computers when I log on I get a command window that says cmd.exe was started with the above path as the current directory. UNC paths are not suppor...
  5. Netlogon Service
    I have installed a new domian controller. It is a virtual machine running Server 2008 R2. I changed the hostname and Ip address of this DC after running DCpromo as it was a replacement of an existing DC. The netlogon service is not running on this DC. It errors out with the f...
  6. netlogon
    If you restart netlogon service ..is anything on the server effected

Free Tech Articles

  1. WARNING: 5 Reasons why you should NEVER fix a computer for free.
    It is in our nature to love the puzzle. We are obsessed. The lot of us. We love puzzles. We love the challenge. We thrive on finding the answer. We hate disarray. It bothers us deep in our soul. W...
  2. SCCM OSD Basic troubleshooting
    SCCM 2007 OSD is a fantastic way to deploy operating systems, however, like most things SCCM issues can sometimes be difficult to resolve due to the sheer volume of logs to sift through and the dispe...
  3. Migrate Small Business Server 2003 to Exchange 2010 and Windows 2008 R2
    This guide is intended to provide step by step instructions on how to migrate from Small Business Server 2003 to Windows 2008 R2 with Exchange 2010. For this migration to work you will need the fo...
  4. Create a Win7 Gadget
    This article shows you how to create a simple "Gadget" -- a sort of mini-application supported by Windows 7 and Vista. Gadgets can be dropped anywhere on the desktop to provide instant information, ...
  5. Outlook continually prompting for username and password
    There have been a lot of questions recently regarding Outlook prompting for a username and password whilst using Exchange 2007. There are a few reasons why this would happen and I will try to cover t...
  6. Backup Exchange 2010 Information Store using Windows Backup
    There seems to be quite a lot of confusion around the ability to backup Exchange 2010 using the built in Windows Backup feature. This stems from the omission of this feature prior to Exchange 2007 s...

Cloud Class Webinars

  1. Avoiding Bugs in Microsoft Access
    Alison Balter takes and in-depth look at avoiding bugs in Access. In this webinar you will learn about using the immediate window to debug your applications, invoking the debugger, using breakpoints to troubleshoot, stepping through code, setting the next statement to execute, ...
  2. Top 10 Best New Features in Visio 2010
    Scott Helmers gives live demonstrations of the top 10 new features in Visio 2010. This webinar will teach you how to create compelling diagrams by adding shapes to the page with a single click, linking the shapes in a diagram to data in Excel (or SQL Server, or SharePoint), ...
  3. IT Consultant Business Secrets Revealed
    Michael Munger, Experts Exchange tech pro and IT consultant, pulls back the curtain on his very successful businesses and answers question on every IT consultant and business owner should know about. He shares secrets on what he did to solve the 5 most common problems in IT, ...
  4. Disaster Recovery and Business Continuity
    Quest CTO, Mike Billon, gives an overview of the steps involved in building a dunamic disaster recovery plan. Through case studies and an examination of software/hardware tooles for monitoring and testing, you'll gain a better understandin of where you are, where you want ...
  5. Organize Your Visio Diagrams with Containers and Lists
    Scott Helmers uses cross functional flowcharts, wireframe diagrams, data graphic legends and seating charts to teach you: how to ustilize all three new structured diagram components in Visio 2010, the best practices for organizeing shapes in previous version of Visio, how to organize ...
  6. How to Us Objects, Properties, Events and Methods in Microsoft Access
    Alison Dalter gives an in-depbth look at objects, properties, events and methods in Microsoft Access. In this webinar you will learn about using the object browser, referring to objects, working with properties and methods, working with object variables, understanding the ...

Join the Community

Give a Little. Get a Lot.

Join the community of experts here and help other tech pros by answering question in your area of expertise. You can earn FREE access to all Experts Exchange's premium features and resources.

Join the Community

Answers

 

by: ikm7176Posted on 2004-06-03 at 05:27:19ID: 11221588

netlogon service in workgroup is not needed

 

by: kz20flPosted on 2004-06-03 at 06:05:57ID: 11221932

Yes, only machines in a domain make use of the Netlogon service.

The NT NetLogon service performs these functions:

Establishes a Secure Channel between systems,
Participates in Domain logins (not Local logins),
Performs Domain Synchronisation,
Participates in Backup Domain Controller (BDC) promotions
Secure Channel
NetLogon provides a secure channel between systems. There are Secure Channels setup between machines as shown in the following table:

From To Why
Member server or workstation Local Domain Controller Domain and pass-through authentication
Local Domain Controller Domain Controller of trusted domain Authentication of accounts form Trusted Domain

When a machine joins a domain, a machine account is created for it. This is similar to a normal user account, but doesn't show up in user manager etc. For a machine called "FRED", the machine account will be called "FRED$". This account has a password associated with it. This password is automatically changed at regular intervals. This account and password are used by NetLogon to establish a Secure Connection to the Domain Controller.

Domain Controllers use a similar system to setup secure channels with the Domain Controllers of Trusted domains.

When looking for a Domain Controller to attach to, the NetLogon service retrieves a list of Domain Controllers from WINS (if you're using it) by resolving the name "DOMAINNAME [1C]" (if your domain is called "DOMAINNAME"!). It sends a request to establish the secure channel to the first (twenty??) entries in the list. It establishes the channel with the one that replies first.

 

by: ralonsoPosted on 2004-06-03 at 06:10:10ID: 11221969

local authentication is dealt with by the local security authority (lsass.exe)

network authentication (out of AD) is done via NTLMv2, if not available NTLM and ultimately Lan Manager
(if both machines are W2k at least, or ntsp4 NTLMv2 will be used).

take a look at:
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/576.mspx

there's some info on the kind of authentication used, etc. for workstations.

 

by: dbranniganPosted on 2004-06-03 at 06:10:50ID: 11221975

thanks, but i read an article very similar at http://www.snakegully.nu/tech/netlogon.html#domainlogin

my question refers to why the netlogon is not used at the workgroup level, and is this still secure?

 

by: dbranniganPosted on 2004-06-03 at 06:19:57ID: 11222048

cheers ralonso, i'm sure on my AD setup here kerberos is used.....

 

by: kz20flPosted on 2004-06-03 at 06:23:16ID: 11222078

Workgroups only use local logins, as mentioned by ralonso, and NetLogon deals primarily with domain logins. the Netlogon service is a dedicated channel for trusts and the replication/querying of a single master SAM database. There is no need for NetLogon to be utilised in workgroup security, as the credentials are verified by the local machine rather than having to be passed through the NetLogon service to a domain controller.

it is still secure, but the security of every server is only as good as the security policy applied to it.

 

by: ralonsoPosted on 2004-06-03 at 06:31:42ID: 11222163

authentication works the following way (workstation member of a domain):

1 - The machine starts
2 - network services are started
3 - The netlogon service in the workstation opens a connection to the nearest (-ish) DC
4 - The workstation logs on to the domain (account WORKSTATION$)
The windows screen comes on

5 - The user hits ctrl+alt+del
6 - The machine uses the previously established secure channel (if still alive) or creates a channel
7 - The DC provides a list of all DC with a trust relationship where the user can log on (that's why sometimes it takes a few seconds to appear the login screen)

The login screen comes up
8 - When the user types in username and password, the LSA collects the info and hands it over to the local netlogon service.
9 - If the Netlogon channel is still available, the info is sent to the domain controller.
10 - The DC generates a session token with the SID for the user account, plus all SID's for global groups of which the account is member.

 

by: ralonsoPosted on 2004-06-03 at 06:38:06ID: 11222235

Workstation not member of the domain:

1 - The machine starts
2 - network services are started (but not netlogon, no need)
The windows screen comes on
3 - The user hits ctrl+alt+del
The login screen comes up
4 - When the user types in username and password, the LSA collects the info and matches it to the SAM database (local registry).

The user tries to access a network resource:
5 - The workstation connects to the Inter Process Channel (IPC$) resource in the server (Workstation service in the client machine Connecting to server process in server machine)
6 - Security level is agreed (there is a packet stating all kind of authentications supported by one and the other). Here is when you want it to be using the highest Challenge-Response method available: NTLMv2.
7 - The workstation tries to authenticate with the local username and password used in the machine
8 - If no such account exists in the destination server/domain, a window pops up requesting logon details.

I hope the full info is more detailed and useful.
Only domain authentications use the netlogon process, and only netlogon authentications use kerberos.

20120131-EE-VQP-002

3 Ways to Join

30-Day Free Trial

The Experts

98% positive feedback on 31,087 answers since March 2000. angeliii is a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional for his work with MS SQL Server & Develoment.

He has also proven his knowledge of Visual Basic Programming, PHP Scripting and Oracle Databases.

The Experts

97% positive feedback on 10,752 answers since July 2000. lrmoore has more than 18 years experience in the networking industry.

The six-time Mircosoft MVPs specialties include firewalls, virtual private networking, and network management.

Testimonials

"...and excellent source for support... Kind of like having your very own IT dept." Electriciansnet

Testimonials

"I was apprehensive at signing up at first. However... it has already made my life as an IT administrator much easier." JaCrews

Testimonials

"WOW! You guys have great, active, and knowledgeable people on here." moore50

Business Clients

Business Clients

In the Press

"If you’ve got a question... Experts Exchange can supply an answer.”

In the Press

"...an invaluable aid for both IT professionals and those who require tech support."

In the Press

"where IT professionals provide quick answers on just about any topic"

Business Account Plans

Loading Advertisement...