How to make boot disk, but not in Linux
Okay, here's the issue. I installed Linux on my multi-boot system. I use Partition Magic and Boot Magic. The install went flawlessly with Redhat 9.0 Pro. Unfortunately, I can't get it to boot. BootMagic sees the partition, but when it goes to boot in Linux, it just hangs.
The people at PowerQuest want me to make a boot disk that will let me boot into the install I have on my hard drive. They want me to do this to confirm my install is good. Unfortunately, since I can't run Linux yet, I can't do it in Linux.
Is there any way to make a boot disk from the RedHat CD and NOT have it be an install disk? That seems to be all I can create.
The people at PowerQuest want me to make a boot disk that will let me boot into the install I have on my hard drive. They want me to do this to confirm my install is good. Unfortunately, since I can't run Linux yet, I can't do it in Linux.
Is there any way to make a boot disk from the RedHat CD and NOT have it be an install disk? That seems to be all I can create.
ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION
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Why not use RedHat? Or check that it is (more or less) OK?
If you can boot from the installation CDs, you can very well boot rescue mode directly from the CDs (no need for rawrite, or booting the installation images...:-).
IIRC it should be as easy as entering
linux rescue<Enter>
at the CD bootprompt.
Whaen it has booted up, it'll tell you where it has mounted any linux installations found (ISTR it being /mnt/sysimage) so then you could simply
chroot /mnt/sysimage<Enter>
to "run from the on-disk install", but still with the rescue kernel (loaded from the CD). Then just do
mkbootdisk
and it'll create one for your system... Just as the PQ support person wanted:-).
Let us know if you run into trouble.
-- Glenn
If you can boot from the installation CDs, you can very well boot rescue mode directly from the CDs (no need for rawrite, or booting the installation images...:-).
IIRC it should be as easy as entering
linux rescue<Enter>
at the CD bootprompt.
Whaen it has booted up, it'll tell you where it has mounted any linux installations found (ISTR it being /mnt/sysimage) so then you could simply
chroot /mnt/sysimage<Enter>
to "run from the on-disk install", but still with the rescue kernel (loaded from the CD). Then just do
mkbootdisk
and it'll create one for your system... Just as the PQ support person wanted:-).
Let us know if you run into trouble.
-- Glenn
ASKER
Who would have believed a web site dedicated to boot disks!!!
Anyway, in response to paullamkhg that file structure didn't exist on my Linux CDs. It did have a bootdisk.img, but when I used that it just created a diskette for installing Linux, not booting into anything.
So far as GNS. I am using RedHat, but it won't boot. That's why I needed the disk. I tried going the rescue kernel route, but ran into hiccups. I figured I'd ask first on how to get one some other way. I'm thinking I could have worked through that route too.
My configuration is rather complicated. I have 4 operating systems now (WinXP #1, WinXP #2, Win 2K, and Linux). If I install GRUB or LILO on my MBR I can boot into Linux, but I only get offered 1 alternative (my first WinXP install), so that won't work. I need to use the BootMagic, and it shows all the operating systems, but won't boot the Linux (just gets stuck), even with LILO installed on the Linux partition.
THIS IS VERY FRUSTRATING. I hope PQ support can work through this. I'm sure in the end it will be some stupid little thing and/or some particular requirement.
Anyway, in response to paullamkhg that file structure didn't exist on my Linux CDs. It did have a bootdisk.img, but when I used that it just created a diskette for installing Linux, not booting into anything.
So far as GNS. I am using RedHat, but it won't boot. That's why I needed the disk. I tried going the rescue kernel route, but ran into hiccups. I figured I'd ask first on how to get one some other way. I'm thinking I could have worked through that route too.
My configuration is rather complicated. I have 4 operating systems now (WinXP #1, WinXP #2, Win 2K, and Linux). If I install GRUB or LILO on my MBR I can boot into Linux, but I only get offered 1 alternative (my first WinXP install), so that won't work. I need to use the BootMagic, and it shows all the operating systems, but won't boot the Linux (just gets stuck), even with LILO installed on the Linux partition.
THIS IS VERY FRUSTRATING. I hope PQ support can work through this. I'm sure in the end it will be some stupid little thing and/or some particular requirement.
> Anyway, in response to paullamkhg that file structure didn't exist on my Linux CDs. It did have a bootdisk.img, but when I used that it just created a diskette for
> installing Linux, not booting into anything
This was expected (I allude to it in my comment).
> So far as GNS. I am using RedHat, but it won't boot. That's why I needed the disk. I tried going the rescue kernel route, but ran into hiccups. I figured I'd ask
> first on how to get one some other way. I'm thinking I could have worked through that route too.
We probably could have worked through those, yes.
> My configuration is rather complicated. I have 4 operating systems now (WinXP #1, WinXP #2, Win 2K, and Linux). If I install GRUB or LILO on my MBR I can boot
> into Linux, but I only get offered 1 alternative (my first WinXP install), so that won't work. I need to use the BootMagic, and it shows all the operating systems, but
> won't boot the Linux (just gets stuck), even with LILO installed on the Linux partition.
The RH installer would only autodetect the "first" one, yes. You'd probably need install in "expert" mode and add them manually (if at all possible from the installer).
Both grub and LILO are probably able to boot all your OSes... There shouldn't be a need for mixing in a _third_ bootloader into the mix.
For LILO, you should just need edit /etc/lilo.conf, and add entries for all the windows partitions... and you should have a "template" to build from (the "autogenerated" one). Just make sure the "label=..." differs, and that your "other=/dev/...." point to the correct device handles (example(s): /dev/hda1 is the first partition on the primary master IDE drive, /dev/hda2 is the second partition on the same drive, /dev/hdb5 is the first "extended" partition on the primary slave IDE drive ... etc). when you are done (have saved the file), run
/sbin/lilo
to install the map onto the boot= device ... probably the MBR:-).
For grub, pretty much the same goes... In /boot/grub/menu.lst (can also be edited as /etc/grub.conf and /boot/grub/grub.conf ... they just refer to the same file;) you should have a windows entry to "glean information from"... something like:
title Windows
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
makeaktive
chainload +1
Note that there need be a blank line between the entries. You need change the titles, and the rootnoverify entries. the numbering is taken from the BIOS persective, so hd0 is the first drive as percieved by the bios. the second number is the partition number, and the numbering (of course) is based from zero (examples: (hd0,0) is the frist drives first partition, (hd0,1) is the same drives second partition, (hd1,4) is the second drives fifth partition (these should correspond fairly well with the above LILO examples). Grub just needs be installed once, it'll read the file upon every boot... If you'd like to overwrite the current bootloader, you could just do
grub-install /dev/hda
(or whatever holds your MBR... /dev/sda if SCSI....).
It could also be a very good idea to "harmonize" your boot.ini files between the different versions of windows, so that their ntldrs have a possibility to boot each, and to use for example grub-install to install grub to a "partition boot record (use a linux partition for this), then use bootpart to read the sector to a windows file and add it to boot.ini ... get bootpart from http://www.winimage.com/bootpart.htm
Good luck, and hope that some of the above will ease your frustration.
-- Glenn
> installing Linux, not booting into anything
This was expected (I allude to it in my comment).
> So far as GNS. I am using RedHat, but it won't boot. That's why I needed the disk. I tried going the rescue kernel route, but ran into hiccups. I figured I'd ask
> first on how to get one some other way. I'm thinking I could have worked through that route too.
We probably could have worked through those, yes.
> My configuration is rather complicated. I have 4 operating systems now (WinXP #1, WinXP #2, Win 2K, and Linux). If I install GRUB or LILO on my MBR I can boot
> into Linux, but I only get offered 1 alternative (my first WinXP install), so that won't work. I need to use the BootMagic, and it shows all the operating systems, but
> won't boot the Linux (just gets stuck), even with LILO installed on the Linux partition.
The RH installer would only autodetect the "first" one, yes. You'd probably need install in "expert" mode and add them manually (if at all possible from the installer).
Both grub and LILO are probably able to boot all your OSes... There shouldn't be a need for mixing in a _third_ bootloader into the mix.
For LILO, you should just need edit /etc/lilo.conf, and add entries for all the windows partitions... and you should have a "template" to build from (the "autogenerated" one). Just make sure the "label=..." differs, and that your "other=/dev/...." point to the correct device handles (example(s): /dev/hda1 is the first partition on the primary master IDE drive, /dev/hda2 is the second partition on the same drive, /dev/hdb5 is the first "extended" partition on the primary slave IDE drive ... etc). when you are done (have saved the file), run
/sbin/lilo
to install the map onto the boot= device ... probably the MBR:-).
For grub, pretty much the same goes... In /boot/grub/menu.lst (can also be edited as /etc/grub.conf and /boot/grub/grub.conf ... they just refer to the same file;) you should have a windows entry to "glean information from"... something like:
title Windows
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
makeaktive
chainload +1
Note that there need be a blank line between the entries. You need change the titles, and the rootnoverify entries. the numbering is taken from the BIOS persective, so hd0 is the first drive as percieved by the bios. the second number is the partition number, and the numbering (of course) is based from zero (examples: (hd0,0) is the frist drives first partition, (hd0,1) is the same drives second partition, (hd1,4) is the second drives fifth partition (these should correspond fairly well with the above LILO examples). Grub just needs be installed once, it'll read the file upon every boot... If you'd like to overwrite the current bootloader, you could just do
grub-install /dev/hda
(or whatever holds your MBR... /dev/sda if SCSI....).
It could also be a very good idea to "harmonize" your boot.ini files between the different versions of windows, so that their ntldrs have a possibility to boot each, and to use for example grub-install to install grub to a "partition boot record (use a linux partition for this), then use bootpart to read the sector to a windows file and add it to boot.ini ... get bootpart from http://www.winimage.com/bootpart.htm
Good luck, and hope that some of the above will ease your frustration.
-- Glenn
ASKER
Monster answer. Thanks. I may very well need the help. I sent a response to PowerQuest, but they are quite slow and seem to be more interested in simply getting a response to me "off their hands" vs. fixing my problem. Either that or their language skills just aren't up to the task. Obviously, yours are.
I am wondering if maybe just doing an install of GRUB or LILO into my Linux partition (now that the main install is done) might work.
What exactly does GRUB or LILO do except for start up the kernel with some configuration data?
Sorry, my sysadmin background is all Solaris, HPUX, and Ultrix. This Linux stuff is rather new to me.
I am wondering if maybe just doing an install of GRUB or LILO into my Linux partition (now that the main install is done) might work.
What exactly does GRUB or LILO do except for start up the kernel with some configuration data?
Sorry, my sysadmin background is all Solaris, HPUX, and Ultrix. This Linux stuff is rather new to me.
ASKER
On the Boot Magic point, I didn't buy it just for this problem. I use it all the time.
I've found that Partition Magic is invaluable for the Win32 platform and partition management. BootMagic comes with it (free) and is quite good as well.
I've found that Partition Magic is invaluable for the Win32 platform and partition management. BootMagic comes with it (free) and is quite good as well.
ASKER
On the side, I've heard of LILO ever since I've heard of Linux. What are the +/- of GRUB vs. LILO? Which do you prefer and why?
The difference between lilo and grub is: lilo stores the raw place where the kernel image lies (the reason why you must run lilo every time you change your kernel) while grub has to be able to read the root partition: /boot/vmlinuz is a symlink to /vmlinuz => this is the cracking point.
Paul is correct.
The ramifications aren't always plain though.
While LILO is very dependant on geometric (CHS) addressing and the BIOS to perfom its job, it (the lilo command "map installer") actually performs some checks on the validity of the configuration file _at map install time_... That is, before you reboot and end up in trouble, if it is bad in some way.
Grub doesn't need the "reinstall map" phase, since the file will be read every time... If you screw up the file in some way, you can still boot, since you get "dumped" to the grub> prompt, but you will have to enter the commands to do so... Perhaps a good reason to keep a paper copy of /boot/grub/menu.lst around:-). OTOH, the commands provided on the grub> prompt are enough to "find things out", so one could manage well without:-).
Which one is better is more a matter of taste, and what you value: syntax and rudimentary semantic control->LILO, slightly less dependance on BIOS and a tad more flexible-> Grub.
Their jobs are more or less the same... To load an operating system.
One can note that LILO is far older, and entirely focused on loading linux (the kernel) and have only one method to load anything else (the other=... mechanism), while Grub is more general... it supports the MultiBoot specificatiion (although OSes that do are kind of scarce:-). In a Linux environment they are used to load the kernel or to boot up a "secondare" booloader like windozes ntloader.
All OSes need this kind of help, but how it is done varies a bit from architecture to architecture. All need something, but on some arch/OS combos, it is so "integrated" that you perhaps don't "see" it immediately... On Suns you have the openbootprom that will load the solaris kernel... or SILO that'll "complement" the bootprom so that Linux can be loaded, which is kind of like the situation with BIOS/bootloader in the case of ix86/*nix ...
You do need a bootloader capable of loading the linux kernel though... And as far as I know, bootmagic can't do that directly... So this is why I question the need for "one bootloader more". It might solve some windowsisms, but might also just introduce another layer of "obfuscation":-).
If you like bootmagic, and are have no problems in that regard, then fine... use it. I'm just saying that there are at least two more ways to do it that'll get you there, and that can be combined to have the best of both worlds (chainloading ntloader from LILO/Grub _and_ the other way around... and with very little effort too:-).
-- Glenn (who just spent time he doesn't have saying much the same things Paul did:-)
The ramifications aren't always plain though.
While LILO is very dependant on geometric (CHS) addressing and the BIOS to perfom its job, it (the lilo command "map installer") actually performs some checks on the validity of the configuration file _at map install time_... That is, before you reboot and end up in trouble, if it is bad in some way.
Grub doesn't need the "reinstall map" phase, since the file will be read every time... If you screw up the file in some way, you can still boot, since you get "dumped" to the grub> prompt, but you will have to enter the commands to do so... Perhaps a good reason to keep a paper copy of /boot/grub/menu.lst around:-). OTOH, the commands provided on the grub> prompt are enough to "find things out", so one could manage well without:-).
Which one is better is more a matter of taste, and what you value: syntax and rudimentary semantic control->LILO, slightly less dependance on BIOS and a tad more flexible-> Grub.
Their jobs are more or less the same... To load an operating system.
One can note that LILO is far older, and entirely focused on loading linux (the kernel) and have only one method to load anything else (the other=... mechanism), while Grub is more general... it supports the MultiBoot specificatiion (although OSes that do are kind of scarce:-). In a Linux environment they are used to load the kernel or to boot up a "secondare" booloader like windozes ntloader.
All OSes need this kind of help, but how it is done varies a bit from architecture to architecture. All need something, but on some arch/OS combos, it is so "integrated" that you perhaps don't "see" it immediately... On Suns you have the openbootprom that will load the solaris kernel... or SILO that'll "complement" the bootprom so that Linux can be loaded, which is kind of like the situation with BIOS/bootloader in the case of ix86/*nix ...
You do need a bootloader capable of loading the linux kernel though... And as far as I know, bootmagic can't do that directly... So this is why I question the need for "one bootloader more". It might solve some windowsisms, but might also just introduce another layer of "obfuscation":-).
If you like bootmagic, and are have no problems in that regard, then fine... use it. I'm just saying that there are at least two more ways to do it that'll get you there, and that can be combined to have the best of both worlds (chainloading ntloader from LILO/Grub _and_ the other way around... and with very little effort too:-).
-- Glenn (who just spent time he doesn't have saying much the same things Paul did:-)
ASKER
Well, I drop-kicked the BootMagic and installed Grub. It's working great and does everything I could do before with BM.
Only downside is that somewhere since I last used one of my WinXP partitions, it went bad. Luckily it's my home partition and not my work partition, but I can re-install that.
Only downside is that somewhere since I last used one of my WinXP partitions, it went bad. Luckily it's my home partition and not my work partition, but I can re-install that.
Great. Make a bootfloppy anyway (for linux)... some tools tend to overwrite the MBR when operating on the "system partition" (or whatever it's called) on wondoze... CHKDSK, defragmenters etc.
So having a method other than the MBR to boot would be good.
Or you can install another copy of grub onto a linux partitions bootrecord, so that you can easily use bootpart to read it to a file, and have ntloader boot that.
'Nuff advice for now:-).
-- Glenn
So having a method other than the MBR to boot would be good.
Or you can install another copy of grub onto a linux partitions bootrecord, so that you can easily use bootpart to read it to a file, and have ntloader boot that.
'Nuff advice for now:-).
-- Glenn
for making boot disk by using the RedHat CD:
Under MS-DOS, use the rawrite utility included on the Red Hat Linux CD in the dosutils directory. First, label a blank, formatted 3.5-inch diskette appropriately (such as "Boot Disk" or "Updates Disk"). Insert it into the diskette drive. Then, use the following commands (assuming your CD is drive d:):
C:\> d:
D:\> cd \dosutils
D:\dosutils> rawrite
Enter disk image source file name: ..\images\boot.img
Enter target diskette drive: a:
Please insert a formatted diskette into drive A: and
press --ENTER-- : Enter
D:\dosutils>
First, rawrite asks you for the filename of a diskette image; enter the directory and name of the image you wish to write (for example, ..\images\boot.img). Then rawrite asks for a diskette drive to write the image to; enter a:. Finally, rawrite asks for confirmation that a formatted diskette is in the drive you've selected. After pressing Enter to confirm, rawrite copies the image file onto the diskette. If you need to make another diskette, label that diskette, and run rawrite again, specifying the appropriate image file.
Hope this info can help