Dual Boot Existing Windows XP and Red Hat Professional Workstation LINUX on 2 drives

Installing Linux on a multiboot system can be messy even for the best of us.

If your learning linux, I suggest going with one of two methods to get started, then get a dedicated machine and a KVM when you want it all the time (as you likely will).

Method 1: Download a Live Linux CD - the most well known is probably Knoppix.  This is a complete version of Linux that boots off a CD- nothing needs to be installed.  Works great.  All you have to do is make sure your BIOS is bootable.

Method 2: Get a virtual machine software - there are three out there to choose from that should likely work well:
    A) Virtual PC (which is what I use; they have a trial at www.microsoft.com/virtualpc) - here's a list of all the operating systems Virtual PC is compatible with:  http://vpc.visualwin.com/
    B) VMWare (Somewhat better known product, generally better liked because it's not a Microsoft product AND because it acknowledges linux - Virtual PC doesn't but still works fine for MOST versions of linux as my link shows).  See www.vmware.com (VMWare does have slightly better performance than Virtual PC in most tests, but most reviews will say the difference is neglgible)
    C) Bochs - Free, but not the most user friendly install.  Haven't really used it much and can't speak for OS compatibility.

Other than performance, A Virtual Machine software has several advantages:
1.  You can backup the virtual hard drives to a DVD for example.  Then if you screw something up, just go copy the file back and start over.
2.  It runs in a Window on Windows.  This lets you use BOTH Operating systems at once.  VERY convenient.
3.  Some Virtual Machine Software (I know Virtual PC does this) can keep a log of changes and when you "shut off" the virtual computer, you get options to "Suspend" (much like hibernating), "Discard Changes", or "Save Changes" and turn off.

Some things to note about linux:
1.  It can read and write FAT32.  BUT when installing, you should install it to a native linux filesystem.  Most common nowadays is probably EXT3, but ReiserFS is another I see many linux folks using.
2.  Linux can act as a boot manager for Windows, but it can be difficult to get working if it doesn't detect it well itself.

Your best bet would be to run Virtual PC or something.  That would give you the option of running Linux "when" you wanted to.  Windows is the same, just have a new pc on your desktop

Keew:  Ok...I'm a bit confused.  What is wrong with the Red Hat Linux I just purchased?  Is there a way to go into "System, Advanced, Startup Recovery Settings, Edit Startup Options File Manually" and add a boot option for the 40G drive?  Or does this only work for other WinXP boot options?

I really, really want to use the full red hat linux with a dedicated HD so I can work on my programming (I graduated decades ago with BS in Computer Science, and actually knew Unix once-upon-a-time.)  I'm a little rusty, but I still know C, C++ (and a bunch of other archaic languages) and am trying to learn PERL - which would be good on LINUX since my web sites are hosted on Linux.

Is there a way, even messy, that I can do this?  If I screw it up and have to restore/re-install, then I'll deal with the consequences, but I am fearless today!  Are you up to the challenge?  (not calling you out...just in a goofy mood this morning)

I don't mind restarting to using Linux - actually I feel a bit safer that way.  Am I just dreaming too much?

Linux cannot run under the windows 9X/NT/XP boot loader, you need to install it and use it's own boot loader (which is a real pain to configure)

What I have seen most people do when they want to setup a linux system, is to NOT install the boot loader, but instead, create a linux boot disk during setup and start the OS off of that (less likelyhood of linux crashing windows or vice versa).

Also, for best performance, you should delete all partitions off of your 40gb hard drive (as linux will re-partition it to suit it's needs - swap space, boot area, storage area, os files, etc)

I'm not sure how well RedHat enterprise software works as I havn't used RedHat since 9.0, but it should be the same basic multi-boot setup as you would use for RedHat 9.0.

Good Luck,

Rorc

Well, it's been a while (probably 6 months) since my last install of linux and at that time it was debian.  Here's what I'd suggest doing.  If you've cleaned off the 40GB drive, then remove all partitions.  Make it a "raw" disk.  Linux will handle the partitioning.

Now, make a boot disk for Windows.  See:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314079/EN-US/
This way if your boot information gets lost, you can still boot Windows.

Then boot off the Linux CD and install to the 40 GB drive.  As I recall, the redhat installer was a pain if you wanted ALL the packages, but that was with version 7 - may well be much better now with Enterprise 3.0

Make Swap space - given the size of your drive, I'd say 1GB should be plenty.

And when prompted to make a boot disk, DO SO.  (This way if the boot managers are screwed up, you can boot either Windows or Linux).

I would suggest using GRUB as your bootloader.  But if you can deal with spending a little more, I'd suggest buying system commander (you can buy and download online) - see www.v-com.com - I used to use this to multiboot MANY OSs and it worked great.

Some info on Grub booting:
http://www.geocities.com/epark/linux/grub-w2k-HOWTO.html
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub.html
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Multiboot-with-GRUB.html

Once again, gotta recommend using Virtual PC - the flexibility it gives you is great (but the linux installs can literally take hours; once installed, it works fine).  You can also install things like Solaris, FreeBSD, RedHat, Debian, anything you want.

pbbiii: I read with interest all the posts. And while I usually fully agree with leew, today I like to add my different view. I would not run Linux under a virtual PC (be it VMware or Virtual PC or anything else).

Now, as of installing linux, first of all you must know your hard drives. The master on the primary IDE is called /dev/hda, the slave on the primary IDE channel is /dev/hdb and the same goes for the secondary IDE channel: master there -> /dev/hdc and slave secondary -> /dev/hdd.
Likely your 40 GB drive is /dev/hdc, but note it down before you install Linux, in case of uncertainty inmidst of all the selections.

About Red Hat I am not sure, but about Debian and Suse I can tell you that they have rather comfortable installers - so I assume the same for Red Hat, which has a good reputation. I doubt one distrubution is 'better' or 'worse' than another one, I consider it more as a matter of taste. So your Red Hat surely is good enough for you to give it an extended try.

When you install RH, at one point it will ask you where to install the system, and it will offer you to partition and format the hard disk. So select the one which is your correct 40 GB drive. With 2 GB RAM you can afford to have a small swap partiton (linux always likes to have one), though I agree again with leew that 1 GB is plenty. I would do two partitions: one with mount point / (this is called 'root', not to be confused with the directory called /root), and another one with mount point /home - so if you decide one day to reinstall Red Hat (or Suse or Slackware or Debian or whatever), you can install it on the first partition (/) and leave the data on /home/<username> safe. Typically a modern full installation needs about 5 GB of space, so if you do 15 GB for / you will be safe, 1 GB for swap, and all the remaining space for /home. But you definitely do not need /home - you can make one huge partition of about 39 GB for /.

Now, at one point you will be asked what boot loader you want to install. Take the grub, not lilo. Grub is easier to handle, though lilo is more logical on first impression. You should make a boot floppy (if your computer has a floppy drive), although you always can boot a linux installation with a boot CD and tell it 'root = /dev/hdc1' , for example.

However I would install grub into the MBR of the first hard disk. So it boots up, and then you select 'Windows' or 'Red Hat Linux'. If you like to get into Linux, select it and hit enter. And if you like to get into _any_ of your Windows installations, select 'Windows' and then you will be taken to the Windows boot menu from boot.ini. That is the easiest solution.

If you never did a Linux installation before, you will be amazed how fast it happens, and how much free and legal software is included. Before the installation starts, you have the chance to select among hundreds (or thousands?) of programs/applications/games/utilities, or you can select some typical installation like 'office PC with Gnome' or 'minimal installation'. To start with, do a full installation, you have the space and the hardware power to enjoy it.

Well, hope this helps. And how do they say in the linux world: have a lot of fun.
Regards,
has.

PS: Sorry to all, that I have a diverging view.

al-hasan,

please elaborate on your feelings with Virtual machines.  I use them routinely with no trouble.  No, I'm not running anything truly intensive, but for everyday use, programming, reference, etc, they run just fine for me.

You have been great, and I am now filled with hope....oops...something happened.  I repartitioned - raw - the 40G HD which is the slave on the secondary IDE controller - primary is a DVD RW.  

When I got to the part about partioning in the Linux install, i chose manual - automatic stuff always makes me nervous.  However, it does not present the 40G drive as an option.  Just the /dev/hda and /dev/hdb.  I went back with MaxBlaster (they are maxtor drives) and told it that the 40G was bootable instead of just a data drive.  If this works, I will be puzzled as to why since it should find all the HDs, right?  - especially since MaxBlast is for windows partitions.

I'll let you know how it works.

leew: we had used VMware some years ago but did not have the money for powerful hardware (Piv of around 2 GB with 512 MB RAM etc), so the systems became so slow and tedious that none in our IT dept used them within a pretty short time. And before the enthusiasm of linux interested pbbiii is falling asleep I would recommend him to get the 'real' feeling of linux, depending on how far he wants to get into this field.
Furthermore, these VM put a layer between soft- and hardware, which used to cause strange errors with some drivers. This information might be obsolete, admitted, as you say they run with no trouble.

Did I answer your question sufficiently, leew?

Regards,
has.

pbbiii: you do not need to have a bootable drive as /dev/hdd, as you will boot /dev/hda, where the boot loader sits in the MBR.
But why do you use proprietary tools to work on your hard disk? You always can do a fdisk -l (or plain fdisk in Windows) to make a disk bootable, or create partitions. Sorry, pbbiii, but this MaxBlaster thing sounds a bit strange to me. I assume you can boot a rescue system with your RG disk? You should get a command prompt there and do the 'fdisk -l'. But please be careful, as always with linux, it does not ask whether you want to delete the whole disk! So if you are not sure about what you see on the fdisk screen, hit 'q' to quit, please. By the way, fdisk --help shows you the options.

Regards,
has.

Thanks for elaborating.  

I understand your point of view.  I tried VMWare back in 1.0 and earlier - I was never happy with it either.  One thing that bothered my is it wouldn't run BeOS.  But that was 5-7 years ago.  And from what I've seen and experienced, Virtual PC works great (I haven't used VMWare since way back, but I believe they must have improved it, based on all the reviews and information I've read).  My Virtual PC system that I use primarily is my laptop - comes in tremendously handy at clients when I can just boot the OS they need help with.  My notebook isn't decked out either - P4 1.9 with only 384 MB of RAM - I always leave the Windows OS at least 192 MB, and give the guest OS equal or less RAM, depending on the OS I'm using.

You do have a point regarding the "experience" as well.

Personally, I'm no longer a fan of multiboots.  I've found whenever I do that, I tend to stay in the OS I know/like best (for me, Windows).  So either a Virtual Machine or a second computer and a KVM becomes a necessity.

leew: yes, bad experiences haunt one for long. VMware was stable, to be sure, and I did some good stuff with it. But we had to run three OS at the same time, like two linux and one W2000 - which was much too much for 512 RAM. That was back in summer 2001, or autumn, but I do not remember the version of it. Could it have been 3.2? In some years most computers will be so powerful that we all can do the VM way, with hardly any noticeable loss of power.

In my private environment there are many people who switch(ed) from Windows to Linux, and for some tasks they need the first one, f.ex. video editing. So whenever something does not work the way it should do, there is a mail in my inbox. So it is useful to have some multiboot systems running. And what to do with the 80 or 200 GB disks? Partition them and put an OS onto each...

About mechanical KVM I have second thoughts, too. I like to have good monitors, f.ex. TFT with DVI, and all my monitors have two signal connectors. So the pain is with finding the correct keyboard and mouse at times, but the signal quality remains excellent. KVM is faster, easier, sure.

Regards,
has.

Right now I hope pbbiii does install successfully, and not corrupt his computer with some Maxtor tools. leew, JimsZ, Rorc - please stay around and share your thoughts, esp. if pbbiii runs into some problems.

Thank you!
has.

This has been fun.  I'm in the middle of the installation on the other PC.  Answer to al-hasan...yes, i can use FDISK, i just had this handy - installed and works under windows - proprietary to Maxtor drives.  Anyway, when I told it to be bootable, like magic it was available during the linux installation.

here is the partition info as I have it set up now (I haven't hit enter yet)

/dev/hdd1   mount: /boot; type: ext3; size: 6142M
/dev/hdd2   mount: /; type: ext3, size: 20480M
/dev/hdd3   mount: /swap; type: ext3, size: 2048M
/dev/hdd4   type:  extended, size: 9499M
/dev/hdd5   mount: /home; type: ext3, size: 9499M

Does this seem good to you?

We actually use virtual machines in a production environment.  We run one linux machine and OS/2 warp 4 on Virtual PC.  I love the fact that you can copy your image at any time, if you screw it up, just copy the backup over.  There are so many things Virtual PC can do (running in windows) that would be a pain if not.  Shared files and folders for example

Made a slight change:  /swap; type: swap and it is on hdd2 and / is on hdd3

pbbiii: /swap with 1024 MB is more than enough, linux uses the RAM efficiently.
A seperate /boot partition I do not consider as necessary, and 6 GB is way too big. Less than 1024 MB would still be enough. I would do this:

/dev/hdd1   mount: /; type: ext3; size: 17145M
/dev/hdd2   mount: /swap; type: ext3, size: 1024M
/dev/hdd3   mount: /home; type: ext3, size: 20000M

The traditional /boot was needed in older systems, so the boot loader could find the kernel in the first 1024 cylinders of the hard disk. This should be no longer necessary - at least this is my experience.

JimsZ: VM do have advantages, agreed, but the hardware must be sufficient to have fun. Would the installation for pbbiii be easier or more difficult with a VM? And surely it would slow his linux down so much, that his joy would be at best limited. Guess however I will try some VMware out later this year. On what hardware you run it?

Regards,
has.

pbbiii: sorry, with all the copy & paste, of course, swap is of type swap.
has.

Well, i went ahead and pressed enter with the settings I listed above.  apparently overkill, but when I didn't include /boot, it told me i didn't have a boot partition and it might cause me problems with some computer architectures.  Anyway, its on disk 4 of 9.  I get to find out in a while whether it boots with options, and if it harmed my existing installations.

BTW, you guys have made it hard to distribute points since there is so much incredible information in this question/response stream.

I'll give you the final verdict soon.

pbbiii: you went fine with the installation then. Overkill does not matter - and if you enjoy it, you will install it anyway again in a few weeks or months, once you are more familiar with all. Now check the boot loader, grub, and if necessary work on the /boot/grub/grub.conf file. Let us hear about your progress.

Do not worry about the points - my pleasure is having helped another one interested in Linux, and one day you will help somebody as well. IMHO the concerns and informations about the virtual machines (VM) value at least as much as my lines, so please reward them nicely. I have many points which are of no use for me, but if we grow the mentality of the people towards linux, or any other alternative OS, then we all win in the long run. I must work with Windows, but every dollar/euro/yen not spent for MS is a good dollar ;-)

Have fun!
has.

Well, not a good situation, but confident the final result will be ok.

Startup presented the red hat linux option as well as "winxp" as i defined it.

I chose winxp, then chose winxp pro disk 1 startup option.

Got to startup screen, no users presented, nothing happened.  Finally gave up and powered down.

Rebooted, went into Linux, it started then presented a flickering/distorted graphics interface (well it was blue with a border and the appearance of possible text) and didn't know what to do.  I'm assuming that even though I chose nvidia fx generic as the video adapter, it didn't recognize my nvidia 5700 le with 256M - it didn't offer anything above 128M.

I rebooted, chose winxp, chose winxp pro disk 2, and it boots.  But i'm not sure where to go from here.

Any suggestions?

I've started the re-installation of Linux in hopes that i can 'dumb' down the video issue.  However, I'm rather clueless about the primary winxp boot issue.  The primary winxp boot disk was /dev/hda and that is where the MBR was placed by grub.  Does grub overwrite the MBR?  Is this a likely source of the problem?

I can boot up on the secondary winxp boot disk (/dev/hdb) but not /dev/hda.  I am waiting to see if i can overcome the video problem.

In a worse case scenario, can I uninstall linux, get rid of Grub and do a fixmbr from the winxp setup disk?

pbbiii: about the distorted graphics in RH: you must configure the X-server properly:
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/ref-guide/ch-x.html
Usually the default settings should be already useful, strange that this does not happen. Could be you need to install a new driver from
http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux.html

And now about the XP which hangs at boot up. Can you get it running in a fail safe mode, or the last known good mode? Not sure here, but it is possible RH's grub overwrote the disk signature which XP writes in some - usually free - part of the MBR. The 'disk initialization' would remove this problem. Typically a late hang-up in the boot process could have this cause.
Anyway, I run a Windows 2003 test installation right now, with a Suse next to it, and there is no problem. However I had Suse installed first, and W. later (and redid the boot loader afterwards).

And right here I tell the VM people that your ideas do have merits.

Well, if this does not help, a boot into the XP recovery console and the /fixmbr is another option. However this does not clean out the MBR properly, why I prefer to do a DOS based fisk /mbr first. Finally you either try your luck with grub again (after starting RH with a CD boot), or you could start it with floppy, or we do some other work to start linux via boot.ini.

Let us hear about your situation.
has.

PS: your grub resides in /dev/hda, while your XP-1 is on /dev/hda1 (first partition).
Yes, you can get rid of grub in the MBR by fdisk /mbr, preferrably from a DOS-based fdisk (more powerful than the XP version).
A new RH installation is not necessary...

Unfortunately, safe mode did not work (ARGGG)

Changing video display did not work.  Can you tell me how to update the driver when I can't load Linux (after all the text startup messages, the bad video displays, and I don't have any way of knowing what to do at that poitn).  

Lastly, if I do a fixmbr, will that eliminate my ability to boot into linux?

(essentially, i'm where i was about 1 1/2 hours ago)

pbbiii: please let us try to get your linux working first.

The grub will offer you a possibility to boot into a kind of fail safe mode. You can try this, when it shows up (press the TAB key to see the options). Can you boot into a text login screen? Try to do the <Ctrl>+<Alt>+<Backspace> (not DELETE!) key, to kill your GUI. Then try to run 'xf86config' - as root. Here you should be able to configure the graphics system in RH.

In case you are fed up with linux already (I hope not), do a /fixmbr first, to get the XP running again. Linux will not boot with this grub anymore then. But you could boot your Linux with any bootable linux CD, just enter root = /dev/hdd2 at the boot options line.

Does this xf86config work?
has.

Instead of 'xf86config' you can do 'X -configure' as well. One should yield positive results.
has.

when grub boots, i get a graphical interface with two options:  
Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS (2.4.21-4.el)
WINXP

i can use the following:
'enter' to boot with selected option
'e' to edit the commands before booting
'a' to modify the kernel arguments before booting
'c' for a command line

If i choose 'e' on the linux option, i get the following 3 options:
root (hd2,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.21-4.el ro root=LABEL=/ hdc=ide-scsi
initrd /boot/initrd-2.4.21-4.el.img

i can go further to edit each one of these, but i have know idea what options i could type.

Please let me know what i should do.  In the mean time, i will try the ctrl alt bs option.

ok...i'm logged in as root in text mode.  

I'm at the [root@localhost root]# prompt.
When i enter 'x' or 'x -config' or 'x-configure' or 'xf86config' i get the following:

-bash: x: command not found

i've done 'startx' and it loads the GUI, then i use ctrl-alt-bs to get back to text prompt.  When i type 'startx -configure' it doesn't like that, but it gives me this:
/usr/x11r6/bin/xterm: bad command line option "-config"
then it lists a full set of options, too numerous to list.  

At this point, can i install a new video driver?  If so, how?  I can download the new one from nvidia, but not sure what to do with it.

X must be capital one, not x, in X -configure (there is a difference in unices). For the other one, do the '/usr/bin/X11/xf86config'.

Meanwhile I booted several times with different grub options. Whatever I do, the boot runs up normally, into the pre-configured GUI, and not into what I entered. Whatever we edit here, it affects the kernel, but not the graphical system (which is the X). So leave it, please. The problem is solely with the X configuration so far.

By the way, when I see "root (hd2,0)" - did you change something with the installation? hd2 = /dev/hdc, not hdd. And 0 is the first partition, not the second one.

Did your X configuration yield any results?
has.

PS: what user are you? You must be root for such tasks.

i'm logged in as root
i did the X -configuration
it gave me a message of which i can only see the bottom of, and told me to enter a command to verify

anyway, now the monitor has no output other than it's normal initial diagnostic screen of monitor status

pbbiii: sorry, overlooked the 'root'. startx loads the GUI, no need to add -configure here.
Did you download the nvidia driver to your linux system? At the moment I feel it is a configuration problem of X, a basic graphical interface should be possible without the specific driver as well. Usually Red Hat uses the xf86config to work on the X server. With Suse it is much easier, so I am not too familiar with this step. I try to help you as good as I can - okay? Any other comments are appreciated, always.

as of your long (I assume) message: you can scroll up with the <Shift>+<Page-Up> key. Usually it asks a few questions...

i did a ctrl-alt-bs and got back to text screen.

here is what the result of X -configure was:

(a list of items of which are scrolled past my visibility) followed by a final two lines of:

Your XF86Config file is /root/XF86Config.new
To test the server, run 'XFree86 -xf86config /root/XF86Config.new'

When i do that, i get the monitor status screen

so i do the ctrl-alt-bs to get back to text prompt.

How do i see all that the screen dump has for me?

If you cannot see all the screen output, then do
X -configure > xxdata.txt
and then read it in
nano xxdata.txt
using cursor keys. Can you tell me about the test more, just status screen, nothing else?

al-hasan  YOU ARE REALLY, REALLY A BIG HELP

I have the device driver from nvidia on a floppy, but i don't know what to do with it - how to install, etc.

I am temporarily giving up until i know more about linux.  Apparently it takes more than just the startup manual and disks to install - especially troubleshoot.

I'll try it again, but i can't be without my PC for the night, tomorrow, etc.

Thanks for all the help.

I'll continue this thread when i can spend time on it.  Now i need to try to get windows working again.

the monitor status screen is a blank screen with white text in the middle with the label 'monitor status screen' which is common to iiyama monitors.  this screen flashes when the system restarts.  I'm presuming it is caused in this situation because signals between video card and monitor aren't understood by os.

Okay, when you have the driver on the floppy, please let us try this:

# first mount it after putting the floppy into the drive:
mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy

# then copy the driver to your home directory:
cp /mnt/floppy/<drivername> /home/<username>

# switch to root:
su

# run this command to install it:
sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-7174-pkg1.run
(hope that is the right name - just enter 'sh NV <TAB>'

# then you must edit the X configuration file:
(read here the information: ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-7174/README.txt)
you must add somewhere the name 'nvidia' or so in that file.
best use nano for editing text files, vi is more powerful but has an awkward command structure

# either do the X -configure again or venture into startx already. If I am not mistaken, there should be some command in RH like 'Xconfigurator'  - try it out, could be more easy to use. In Linux there are always many ways to reach a goal.

Anyway, all this should not be, usually a usable GUI is provided by all modern linux installations on standard equipment (which you obviously seem to have).

I noted down the steps to get rid of linux, just in case, and if you are going to install it on /dev/hdd0 in future, again, as now, then you can try the booting via the boot.ini (it works, I did it myself, but prefer grub):


Boot Linux via boot.ini:

Boot into Linux. Log in and open a console window, or stay in text mode. Log in as root. Be careful, what you are doing now, as root is very powerful!

Enter the comand to write the MBR with the grub into a file, enter exactly like this:
dd if=/dev/hda of=bootsect.lin bs=512 count=1
Now there should be a file named 'bootsect.lin' right in your directory. You can look it up by entering 'ls -ali' to see the details.

Next step: You must copy this file to the c: drive. Likely you do have NTFS on c: - which cannot be written to by standard linux drivers, so it is easier to copy it using a floppy disk. Put one into the drive, formatted in Windows.
If /dev/fd0 is not yet mounted (verify with 'mount' alone), do this line first:
mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy
Now copy the file to the floppy disk:
cp bootsect.lin /mnt/floppy
Unmount the floppy:
umount /dev/fd0      - note: umount, and not uNmount!
Log out and reboot.

Now boot into XP and copy the file from the floppy disk to the c: partition (root directory).
Add to your boot.ini this entry:
C:\bootsect.lin="My fine Linux"

Make a copy of boot.ini, just in case. Now you can do the XP repair or /fixmbr, as linux will boot from the MBR data in the file.

Try it out and see whether it works. The XPs should boot without any problems now.

Hope it was understandable.
Regards,
has.

PS: I use Iiyama too ;-) The X server test might take a few seconds... so far it went into a blue screen, where the size etc. could be adjusted.

pbbiii: here is some shorter info about the driver installation:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/archive/31/2003/12/1/121617

About Windows XP, I would start giving the /fixmbr a chance. If not, do the repair option.
How are things going there?
has.

pbbiii: is your XP booting properly again? If so, fine. If not, I stay a bit longer online.

Thanks for the 'big help', but somehow RH seems to have strange inherent difficulties, which might make more help necessary:
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/20893976/How-do-I-configure-X-in-Redhat-9.html
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/20747366/startx-command-does-not-work.html

Do you have a chance to try out ubuntu linux? Should be easier, but I never touched it (yet). Similar is Knoppix. You can download a whole CD image of Knoppix and burn it, then run the full system, without installing anything. Great to try things out, esp. your computer's graphics card.

Regards,
has.

nope...i can't make xp boot correctly.

i can't boot on my win 89 disk to do a fdisk /mbr

so, i'm sitting here rather puzzled to figure out what to do next...but brain power should be available soon.

also, i didn't read all of the earlier info you provided...i was waiting to do fixmbr to try to do the fdisk /mbr (but i can't remember if that works with ntfs or only FAT) .

I will review all the info above and provide real feedback in a while.

pbbiii: Can you boot the Win 98 disk at all? There should be the selection menu offering three choices. One of them is boot the computer with CD support. This is what we need.
I stay around a bit longer, okay?
has.

pbbiii: sorry, I do fall asleep here. And I do not want to leave you with a not-booting computer there. To get XP running, you should clean out the MBR first. Best is a DOS based 'fdisk /mbr' (W98=DOS based). Then the XP /fixmbr, evtl. /fixboot, and if both do not alleviate your pain, then continue with the XP repair. Anything we do in the MBR will destroy grub's ability to boot.
By the way, there are two ways to enter the recovery console:
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

Alternatively you can do another fast RH install, and have grub in the MBR, so it will be able to start the Windows boot files. Hope you have a full version CD of XP?

Good night,
has.

tried to do fixmbr - it removed the grub option.  However, i still have the same problem with win xp.

i get my two boot options (winxp disk 1, winxp disk2).  However, if i choose disk 1, it loads to the user login screen (list of users with icons).  No users are presented, and essentially its a blank screen but with the background format of the login screen.

So i tried the following:
1)  boot in safe mode.  Same problem.
2)  boot in last good config.  same problem.

Booted onto disk2...worked great...until i screwed it up.  I installed the audio drivers, updated winxp, restarted, and now i get an error and a black screen, whether in safe mode or otherwise.

The error message is:
"Services.exe - entry point not found
The procedure entry point _resetstkoflw could not be located in the dynamic link library msvcrt.dll"

The next error message after clicking ok is:
"lsass.exe - entry point not found
The procedure entry point _resetstkoflw could not be located in the dynamic link library msvcrt.dll"
So i now cannot boot on anything but a cd - but that does not include win98 cd, either one of the two i have.

So, back to research mode....  i really didn't want to re-install.

per another q&a on experts exchange, i have fixed the entry point problem.  I will work on the main xp boot problem next

I will move back to attempting the Linux dual boot configuration later, but my biggest priority is getting windows to work correctly.  Let me know if i need to treat this as a new question stream.

Here is the status:
1.  I have the startup option 'winxp disk 2' working correctly.
2.  The original default startup option 'winxp disk 1' is having the problem.
- the problem began right after the first Linux installation sequence.  GRUB boot loader presented both a 'dos' (windows) boot option and the red hat linux boot option.  When i chose the 'dos' option, i was presented with the two winxp startup options.  When i chose 'winxp disk 1' windows would start loading, and when it got to the screen that lists the users (and their icons) to login, the screen only displays the background with no users or icons to select to login.  There also isn't an option to shut down.  CTRL-ALT-DEL and ALT-F4 have no impact.  

Since i have done the fixmbr, the GRUB loader is gone, and i have the two normal winxp boot options available.  However, the same thing happens on 'winxp disk 1'.  I have done a chkdsk (the restart variety) through booting on 'winxp disk 2', I have done fixmbr, fixboot, bootcfg /rebuild, and still ahve the same problem.  

I'm presuming i have a registry issue, but haven't gone down that path yet.  

Any ideas?

OK - good news to start this day.

Win XP boot problem is fixed.  Corrupted registry as I suspected.  Great link from another experts-exchange article made it simple:  support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;307545 - Microsoft Support article: 307545 published 3/4/2005, titled: "how to recover from a corrupted registry that prevents Windows XP from starting"

The best part is having two boot options, because I didn't have to go into recovery console.  

Now back to the real question:  how to create a dual boot XP/Red Hat Linux system.  The remaining problem appears to be with the video (and the lack of any Linux expertise on my part).

I will try the recommendations on the video issue as described above.  

Can I just use the bootable install cd from Red Hat to boot into Linux since I didn't 'uninstall' or delete the linux partition?

If so, that would make the troubleshooting easier until I get linux working well.  Then I will tackle the dual boot as I originally attempted.

Let me get your thoughts on the Linux game plan.  Thanks!

pbbiii: sorry for deserting you. And sorry that you had to work yourself on the XP registry issue - myself would have been of little help there anyway. Why this happened is a big question, as grub writes _only_ into the MBR of the first disk. And Windows' registry resides at <w-root>\system32\config, which is far away from the MBR.

My only idea for this stalling here is about the hard disk's signature which XP keeps in the registry and which it writes into the MBR as well. But this should have been fixed with the initialization of the disk - a step where you never came to.

I wonder whether the virtual machine installation would have saved us from all this?? Or caused different issues?

For now, you can boot the RH cd and at some point it will ask whether you want to install or boot an existing system. Just enter at that point 'root=/dev/hdd1' (or wherever the / of linux is expected). At least with Suse I know that you can continue further up  the installation way, and after selecting the language and country settings, it asks again what you like to do, offering to install really, or repair the existing linux installation, upgrade an older version, or boot an installed system. It even displays the location (i.e. hdc6 f.x.) of the likely system to boot - very helpful. I assume RH is not too far behind this either. By the way, you could use any bootable linux cd to enter your installed system - just enter the root=... as mentioned here.

If you had created a boot floppy from Linux (after the most recent install at least) you can use that one to boot directly into Linux. As you fixed the MBR in XP now, the copying of it into the bootsect.lin file will not work anymore the way it was intended.

If you feel confident to fix the first XP's registry again, you can write the grub to the MBR once more, extract it with the dd command into the bootsect.lin file as mentioned here:
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/21413965/Dual-Boot-Existing-Windows-XP-and-Red-Hat-Professional-Workstation-LINUX-on-2-drives.html#13941041
and then fix the XP anew to boot all systems via the boot.ini. Or write it to the MBR of /dev/hdd and extract it from there. You could switch boot disks in the bios as well - does it offer you to boot from hard disk 3 or 4? Then it leaves your XP totally apart from linux... though selecting the bootable device in the bios boot order is not very elegant.

As of the graphics system, I just came across some information:
http://www.redhat.com/support/resources/faqs/rhl_general_faq/FAQ-6.html
Could be that the command is written Xconfigurator or XF86Setup (capital X, F and S). You can look up the commands when you change into the directories cd /usr then cd bin then ls. If you do ls -ali you will see the directories marked with a leading drwxr--r--- or similar. You can always switch into any directory using the command cd. And with cd .. you will get back up one level. Or do cd / when you are deep in somewhere, then you are back on the root level. X configuration commands should be in some subdirectory named X11.

However before becoming an expert in RH X configuration, I would like to ask you whether you can download some CDs for free. Do you have a fast connection with free volume? You really might like to try out Suse or Knoppix. With bittorrent you can fetch Suse 9.3 legally for free within about a day (over 3 GB for 5 CD images). Or download a live-CD from
ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/live-cd-9.2/SUSE-Linux-9.2-LiveCD-KDE.iso
with KDE desktop, or if you prefer the Gnome desktop which RH favors:
ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/live-cd-9.2/SUSE-Linux-9.2-LiveCD-Gnome.iso
If you have DVD burning capabilities, you can even get the latest 9.3 for free:
ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/live-dvd-9.3/SL-9.3-LiveDVD-i386-1.iso
The DVD is almost 1,5 GB in size while the CDs are around 700 MB. All these versions will not and cannot be installed to your local computer, they run completely from CD/DVD. As well they are likely not able to boot your RH, not sure (for too long I did not use a live-CD anymore). And you get a good feeling about what is possible now, and how easy things can be.... Novell bought Suse about a year ago.

Sorry again, pbbiii, that this is running a bit out of control, but I did not experience or hear about such difficulties with linux distributions of the recent times (years ago it was common to install and then work a few days to get it running).

Let me hear your news.
Regards,
has.

has,

thanks for the info.  I didn't feel deserted, i feel pretty comfortable with the winxp stuff - too many problems - the family IT department is definitely underpaid.  The fix for the registry issue is easy and only took the time to restart a couple times.  As to the registry corruption - i have no idea what caused that - it is rather puzzling.  The fix was beautiful because microsoft finally published how to get to system restore point files and roll back.  I had set a restore point right before yesterdays adventure, so I had a good setup to return to.  

I am going to try the GRUB again - but not until i get Linux working correctly - the video issue.  I will boot using the CD, eventually make me a boot floppy, and go from there.  

FYI on your questions:  fast internet connection - about 5mbps downstream; 2 DVD / CDR burners; and i have extra disk space.  bios only allows boot order on drive type (cd-rom, hd, ls120, floppy, etc.)

TY on the pipe '>' command.  I started in a DEC PDP environment in 1983, and given 10 years of text based OS experience, many of the text command structures seem to be coming back - but i'm sure someone ran a magnet over some of my brain cells at some time.

I presume nano is fairly straightforward as a text editor.

I was thinking about the video issue.  RH detected the monitor correctly - brand and model number, but did not detect the video card - it defaulted to VESA.  I read somewhere last night that this is essentially the 'VGA' setting; however, i couldn't confirm it elsewhere.  

Can i use the text prompt logged in as the root to ftp the nvidia driver directly to the RH volume (put it in the /usr/bin directory?)

Here is what i plan later today/tonight
1.) Reinstall RH (I enjoy that :) with the VESA video adapter, 1G 'swap', 18G '/';  (i'm doing this for 2 reasons: make room on 40G for other things, and eliminate the possibility that the VESA driver will work as a startup measure.
2.) Create a 5G winxp fat32 partition and install winxp pro onto that partition - this is very useful for dealing with corrupted NTFS hard drives for the other installations - i recommend it to anyone who has the space.  I'm doing this as an extra precaution.
3.) Regardless of step 1 success, install the new nvidia driver.
4.) Try booting into linux with no problems.  If problems, start back here on experts-exchange.
5.) Use your technicque above for dual boot

6.) Eventually install additional versions of Linux eventually - especially if step 4 doesn't lead to success.

declare victory and sleep.

 

pbbii: nice to see you are still in good mood ;-) And sorry for the torture last night. Now let us see what we can achieve:

5 Mb/s down is more than enough to quickly get some other linux distribution. I would try the Suse in your case. If you are adventurous, you can get the full 9.3 DVD (two sides, not sure, I have the CDs) to download here:
http://www.torrentspy.com/search.asp?mode=torrentdetails&id=261449
You need a torrent program, like bittorrent, which is excellent to distribute huge linux images (other stuff as well, but that is not our topic). This one is the real installable DVD, and you will be positively amazed by the difference.

nano is a cute and nice editor, yes, you surely will like it, before breaking fingers with vi or emacs... pico and joe are others.

If you have network connectivity in RH, you of course can fetch the nvidia driver by manual ftp. Try 'pon dsl-provider' or plainly 'pon' and then do a ping. If there is a problem, do 'poff'. If you have not yet configured the network settings, esp. the DSL (I assume you have DSL), run 'pppoeconfig' (hope that works in RH too), otherwise we have to deal with some files in /etc/network and /etc/ppp manually.
Here is the link:
ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-7174/NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-7174-pkg1.run
(checked it, and here it works).
If I remember correctly, these should be the commands:
ftp ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-7174
or do ftp ftp://download.nvidia.com then cd XFree86 then cd Linux-x86 then cd 1.0-7174
get NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-7174-pkg1.run
bye
--> this is a shell script which you should run, so it will install the driver, but not put it into /usr/bin please!

Well, now to the graphics stuff: we have to view this as three-layered. We have a linux system, which is running. On top of that one is the X server, which is needed to display any GUI on the screen. And on top of the X system is a windows manager, or - with the heavy, modern distributions - the desktop environment (more powerful). The X we must get configured the right way, otherwise the Gnome or whatever you selected cannot work. And the X is a very very sensitive system, if one set of data is not correct, the screen remains black. So the X server must recognize the monitor and the graphics card correctly. I hope the driver will help, but somehow I do not really believe it.

Another XP on a FAT partition for rescue purposes sounds good to me. As well you can always use that FAT partition to exchange data between Linux and Windows.

I wish you success, and I look forward to get your news.
has.

ty. here is more insight on the video problem before i really start to tackle it.  the good news is that i get video (as of last night).  The bad news is that the video is unreadable.  It is shaky horizontally, like the refresh rate is screwed up.

Is there any chance you got into some screen like this:
http://jamesthornton.com/redhat/linux/9/Customization-Guide/s1-redhat-config-kickstart-xconfig.html
Or is there a chance to get into some menu, please? Would be much easier than finding the correct config files and values.

I saw this site last night. I didn't get to that screen - the screen looked blue, with the potential of a field to be filled out in the middle.  I entered root and the password, and it seemed to load the OS (fuzzy possible icons, etc)  However, I couldn't read or make out anything other than fuzzy colors (a change of color represented an icon or possible field.)

pbbiii: okay, so we likely must stay on the comand line, in text mode. I did some looking around and in case we had to configure the X manually, here is the way to do it (according to https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/10003958/Help-me-wiht-running-X-Windows.html):

What you have to do is edit XF86Config.eg and rename it XF86Config (don't make it executable).

XF86Config.eg has some instructions inside on how to edit the various sections to configure your mouse, and other devices.  In particular, you will need to configure your video equipment.  This requires detailed information about your video card and monitor (which should be available from their user manuals).

This file should be with RH in /etc/X11/. If you go into that directory, do this:
cp  XF86Config.eg  XF86Config   --  copy it into the new file we need
nano XF86Config                       --  open it in the nano editor
It is possible that the file is existing already, then just open it and look for the settings. I will boot now into Suse and have a look at the file here. Will be right back.

By the way, found some other useful information (though I do not like to flood you with all this):
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/20978455/Red-Hat-9-GNOME-Issue.html
but more likely:
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/20708810/Gnome-falls-over-completly-when-user-log-on.html

Did we try this command already:
redhat-config-xfree86 (as root in the command line)?
And here is how to handle the XF86Config file:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/i810-HOWTO/x26.html#AEN192

Did you succeed in installing the nvidia driver?
has.

Information:

pbbiii, I just do the 'xf86config' questions. There mouse and keyboard then the screen and graphics card settings are asked. May I ask what monitor you use?

and this could be a solution:
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/21396855/Generic-XF86Config-File.html

pbbiii: got the output of two linux installations' X configuration files, might be useful or interesting for you. I run a VisionMasterPro 450 at 1024x768 on a Radeon 7500 card.

XF86Config-4 of Debian 3.1:

Section "Device"
      Identifier      "ATI Technologies, Inc. Radeon RV200 QW [Radeon 7500]"
      Driver            "ati"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
      Identifier      "Default Screen"
      HorizSync      30-60
      VertRefresh      50-75
      Option            "DPMS"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
      Identifier      "Default Screen"
      Device            "ATI Technologies, Inc. Radeon RV200 QW [Radeon 7500]"
      Monitor            "Default Screen"
      DefaultDepth      24
      SubSection "Display"
            Depth            1
            Modes            "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
      EndSubSection
      SubSection "Display"
            Depth            4
            Modes            "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
      EndSubSection
      SubSection "Display"
            Depth            8
            Modes            "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
      EndSubSection
      SubSection "Display"
            Depth            15
            Modes            "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
      EndSubSection
      SubSection "Display"
            Depth            16
            Modes            "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
      EndSubSection
      SubSection "Display"
            Depth            24
            Modes            "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
      EndSubSection
EndSection

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
xorg.conf of Suse 9.3:

Section "Monitor"
  Option       "CalcAlgorithm" "CheckDesktopGeometry"
  HorizSync    27-110
  Identifier   "Monitor[0]"
  ModelName    "VISION MASTER PRO 450"
  Option       "DPMS"
  VendorName   "IIYAMA"
  VertRefresh  50-150
  UseModes     "Modes[0]"
EndSection

Section "Modes"
  Identifier   "Modes[0]"
  Modeline       "1024x768" 152.91 1024 1072 1184 1392 768 769 772 813
EndSection

Section "Screen"
  DefaultDepth 24
  SubSection "Display"
    Depth      15
    Modes      "1024x768"
  EndSubSection
  SubSection "Display"
    Depth      16
    Modes      "1024x768"
  EndSubSection
  SubSection "Display"
    Depth      24
    Modes      "1024x768"
  EndSubSection
  SubSection "Display"
    Depth      32
    Modes      "1024x768"
  EndSubSection
  SubSection "Display"
    Depth      8
    Modes      "1024x768"
  EndSubSection
  Device       "Device[0]"
  Identifier   "Screen[0]"
  Monitor      "Monitor[0]"
EndSection

Section "Device"
  BoardName    "RV200 QW"
  BusID        "1:0:0"
  Driver       "radeon"
  Identifier   "Device[0]"
  Screen       0
  Option       "Rotate" "off"
  VendorName   "ATI"
EndSection


Hope it helps. Will log off now, be back in a few hours.
Regards,
has.

pbbiii: any linux/XP news from your side?

Regards,
has.

sorry I didn't get back to you....new job, etc.

Anyway, used norton partion magic, repartioned, reinstalled, used the linux driver from nvidia, and everything seems to be working.  The video driver was a bit of a pain at first, but figured it out.  

al-Hasan was awesome in his support - staying late, watching the stream - it was like having a real-time guru walking me through the effort.

thank you Has!

pbbiii: if it helped what we did, I did it with pleasure. Thank you too, just the feedback was missing a bit.

Have a lot of fun, and best
regards,
has.