Question

Table with n legs

Asked by: InteractiveMind

Suppose I have a plane (with a known weight, Mg). There are n points on this plane (all at known locations (xi,yi)), which each applies an upward force (that is, along Z) on the plane (where the force is of magnitude Ti).

The plane is in equilibrium.

I need to calculate the force which each point applies.

The equations I've come to so far are:

Sum of (xi * Ti) = 0
Sum of (yi * Ti) = 0
Sum of (Ti) = Mg

(I'll take the centre of mass of the plane/leg system to be the origin)

Recalling that I know Mg, and all of the (xi,yi) coordinates; I could easily solve the Ti values when there are just 3 points (as I have 3 equations). But suppose I add more points. How would I calculate all of these Ti values?

Thanks very much

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Asked On
2007-07-10 at 15:53:30ID22687496
Tags

table

Topic

Math & Science

Participating Experts
4
Points
500
Comments
11

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    Answers

     

    by: ozoPosted on 2007-07-10 at 16:19:32ID: 19458660

    If you've ever seen a table wobble, you'll now there is no unique solution.
    You might find one set of solutions by picking any 3 legs that form a triangle around the CG and solving for 3 points.

     

    by: InteractiveMindPosted on 2007-07-10 at 16:22:55ID: 19458673

    While it looks like you're right, I can't get my head around this...

    Suppose you placed a table with 4 legs, such that there are scales under each leg. And you placed weights on varying positions on the table. Surely the readings on each of the four scales are predictable?

     

    by: InteractiveMindPosted on 2007-07-10 at 16:31:32ID: 19458714

    What about if we applied minor spring properties to each of the legs (rather than assume they're rigid). Would this give us a sufficient number of equations for an exact solution?

     

    by: ozoPosted on 2007-07-10 at 17:02:39ID: 19458828

    Does that mean we can allow the whole table to tilt to adjust the spring compression?

     

    by: ozoPosted on 2007-07-10 at 17:39:20ID: 19458955

    Find the centre of gravity of the table, and the centre of gravity of the legs assuming they all had equal weights.
    If they are different points then equal weights would give a torque.
    If the table rotates rigidly, and spring force is proportional to displacement,
    then the equal weights are adjusted in proportion to the distance from the CG of the legs along the line to the CG of the table.

     

    by: aburrPosted on 2007-07-10 at 21:40:06ID: 19459909

    There has to be some restrictinns on the placement of the legs. These restrictions will give you more equations. For example, if all the legs were lined up along one edge of the table, it would fall.

     

    by: PaulCaswellPosted on 2007-07-11 at 13:23:24ID: 19466420

    As a thought experiment, imagine all but three of the legs are exerting zero force. This would be a perfectly acceptable solution so long as it satisfies aburr's suggestion.

    So there are at least n-2 solutions taking every triplet available. Clearly there is no single solution to the problem.

    Also, just taking n=4 must have infinite solutions as any decrease in the force applied by one support can be balanced by increases elsewhere, again with aburr's restriction.

    In short, you cant.

    Paul

     

    by: ozoPosted on 2007-07-11 at 16:33:58ID: 19467603

    Any linear combination of the n choose 3 solutions are also a solution.
    I think all solutions are linear combination of the C(n,3) 3 leg solutions,
    although you may want to ignore those that give have negative weights on a leg.
    (but if you have springs on the legs, maybe those can be valid too)

     

    by: NovaDenizenPosted on 2007-07-13 at 13:57:18ID: 19484305

    ozo has it right.  Let k = nC3.  Find the individual solutions for all k 3-point combinations.  Come up with weights for these solutions.  The end result will be all possible sums of solutions, constrained such that the total force on each point is >= 0.  

    In other words:

    First calculate k size-n solution vectors s_1 through s_k, each containing (n-3) zeros and 3 non-zeros.  Put them in a sparse n x k matrix called S.

    Assign a weight variable to each solution, w_1 through w_k.  As long as sum(w) = 1.0, S*w will be a solution at equilibrium, but it's an error for a negative weight to be applied to any point, since the plane is 'resting' on the points, so we have to restrain things so that all points are applying a non-negative force.

    n equations like this (each S_x_y column is one of the k 3-point solution vectors):
    S_1_1 * w_1 + S_1_2 * w_2 + .... S_1_k * w_k = f_1
    S_2_1 * w_1 + S_2_2 * w_2 + .... S_2_k * w_k = f_2
    ....
    S_n_1 * w_1 + S_n_2 * w_2 + .... S_n_k * w_k = f_n
    1 equation for the w's.
    w_1 + w_2 + w_3 + .... + w_k = 1.0
    n constraints to keep the forces non-negative
    f_1 >= 0
    f_2 >= 0
    f_3 >= 0
    ...
    f_n >= 0

    These essentially work out to a n convex hypertope in n dimensions in which the f vector could reside.  The solution space is described by the combination of the k basis vectors in S, and the convex surface is derived from the inequalities on f_1 through f_n.

    20120131-EE-VQP-002

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