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11.02.2007 at 10:00AM PDT, ID: 22936094

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Power Question 3: Ethernet to Fiber Optic

Zone: Power Questions

Tags: fiber, optic, ethernet

We are trying to explore our options in connecting PCs in a second building to our thin ethernet LAN. The second building is about 550 ft from the first. We are investigating laying cables in the ground. What would be the best architecture for this? Fiber Optic? Ethernet? What would I need for connectors and equipment? What are my alternatives?

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Question Stats

Zone: Other

Question Asked By: Powerof2Million

Solution Provided By: mcannet

Participating Experts: 14

Solution Grade: A

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11.02.2007 at 06:13PM PDT, ID: 20205547

2PiFL:

If you want "wire" fiber is a must. If you can see just a part of the other building then a wireless bridge is a great option. We went with Motorola.

http://www.wirelessnetworkproducts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=228

11.02.2007 at 08:03PM PDT, ID: 20205777

mcannet:

I agree with 2PiFL - unless you own the property, digging up the ground and laying cable will be awefully expensive. You can easily get 4 AP's and setup a 54Mbps full duplex bridge. 1 set would be for transmitting and the other set for receiving. If you have POE enabled switches in your 1st existing building you can take use of that, otherwise you can get power injecotrs for the Access-Points. If you decide to explore this further, I would be happy to provide more specifics...

However if that is not the option or you want to lay cable.... you're gonna wanna go with a fiber optic solution.

1. If you can't go wireless and the property between buildings is not yours - you'll probably want to lease dark fiber from a service provider in your area. - Dark meaning that they own the right of ways and will run the physical cable, you just need to "light it" yourself (plugging it into equipment inside your buidlings) You could pay a lump sum fee and the cable is yours and you will be responsible for the repairs should anything happen to the cable (if the provider will offer that solution) OR you can lease it and pay a monthly fee and the service provider will maintain the cable

2. If you own the property The max you want to go with copper without adding additional hardware in between is 384'. So copper is out. You should use single mode fiber if you are looking to push serious speeds (100Gbps) otherwise, probably a cheaper option would be to go with multi-mode fiber with a max distance of 2kilometers.

As far as the hardware in the buildings... well it all depends on what you have now and what you are willing to go with. Most network switches today come equiped with fiber ports for uplinks. And as far as the connectors on the end of the cable - will greatly depend on the network device you are plugging into. Mostly you'll have 3 choices that really other than physical footprint don't have an advantage over each other... SC is a double barrel connector each one is like a BNC connector, ST is also is double barreled but with square ends and then there is MT-RJ which kinda looks like an RJ45 end (a little). If you are not looking to replace your current hardware and don't have fiber ports, you can purchase media converters that will conver fiber to copper and plug the copper into your existing switch.

I recommend using a layer 3 switch, and putting the fiber link on it's on VLAN - you can secure things a litter better with that, but if that is not the option, plugging the cable into switches on either end will work.

Your architecture is going to remain ethernet - your just using different media (fiber as opposed ot copper) to deliver the data.

Accepted Solution

11.03.2007 at 12:36AM PDT, ID: 20206210

shivaspk:

Here is a similar solution I found in EE

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Networking/Windows_Networking/NT/Q_10001880.html

It suggests "10baseF (Fiber Optic) is the best solution for your situation. "

11.03.2007 at 12:45AM PDT, ID: 20206221

shivaspk:

Here is an article which may help you in taking up the decisions better

http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-1035_11-6155910.html

11.03.2007 at 12:48AM PDT, ID: 20206225

shivaspk:

Another complete tutorial about "Fiber Optic Communications for the Premises Environment"

http://www.telebyteusa.com/foprimer/foch4.htm

11.04.2007 at 08:22AM PST, ID: 20211126

rama_krishna580:

Hi,

1000base-lx is known as single-mode fiber (meaning one signal on each line)
1000base-fx, 1000base-sx are multimode fiber (meaning multiple signals, users, on each line).
Fiber optic ethernet technology requires a pair of lines and different network adapters and very delicate handling of the lines (the media lines are ultra narrow measured in microns).
Too expensive for residential consumers, best for horizonatal and vertical apps.

R.K

11.04.2007 at 10:46AM PST, ID: 20211617

rama_krishna580:

Look at here...
http://www.arcelect.com/Ethernet_10baseT_fiber_converter_DC_powered.htm
http://www.versitron.com/FAEthernet.html
http://www.byterunner.com/byterunner/category=Ethernet+to+Fiber+Optic+Network+Converters,+Ethernet+Media+Converters
http://www.advantech.com/products/Industrial-Ethernet-to-Fiber-Optic-Converters/mod_1-2AMZ2Y.aspx

R.K

11.05.2007 at 05:39PM PST, ID: 20220911

Prax1980:

I suggest you to get layed fiber cable that can enhance your requirements and it may cost you more but will be worth and helpfull in future projects.

You can use fiber to Ethernet converters which are available in the market.

In equipment case I don't know what setup you got in existing, but can suggest to go for switches which supports fiber uplinks. Can solve your problem in simple way.

11.06.2007 at 02:14PM PST, ID: 20228334

saulj:

As everyone else has said, you dont want to run fiber unless you own the land and are never planning on moving.
If that didn't scare you away, then you definately want to run fiber, not wire. The medial converters to get you going at 100 mb are around $100-150 each, then later down the road, you just switch the comverters to gb or whatever the speed at that point is.

11.06.2007 at 03:15PM PST, ID: 20228741

JoseParrot:

Cables layed in the ground? Take care to the cars around, they can damage the cables, copper or fiber. Also, this approach is viable only if you are the owner of the terrain and buildings, for exemple, at a farm. In this case, take care to the cows.

You have already a thin ethernet, 10b2 LAN, running at 10 Mbps, so makes no sense a 100 Mbps or Giga connection to link your LAN to others PCs at building 2, that is, fiber isn't a must.
Anyway, the B1-B2 distance is larger than 200 m, not affordable to pass copper cable without a energized booster.
Also, your group in B1 is supposed to be smaller than 30 workstations, so maximum required bandwitch to talk with B2 would be the same 10 Mbps.

Then, my recommendation are:

1. A small hub with at least one BNC connector, linked to your LAN at B1
2. A 2.4-2.4835 GHz ISM (industrial/scientific/medical) band License Free Radio Modem plugged in the hub at B1. Pay attention for European or US rules.
3. Two omni directional antennas, at both B1 and B2
4. A second modem ISM band at B2
5. A second hub (optionally a switch) at B2, linked to second modem.
6. The PCs at B2 are wired to the hub (or switch). Optionally, you can add a Wireless Access Point.

Inexpensive, easy to install, quick run up.

Jose

Assisted Solution

11.06.2007 at 03:19PM PST, ID: 20228751

JoseParrot:

Ooooops, a correction: the antennas could be Directional ones (not OMNI directional).
Jose

11.07.2007 at 09:46AM PST, ID: 20234407

valmatic:

WE did the same thing here. We went with a point 2 point set up, thinking it might be a temp area but ended up laying fiber in the long run. AS mentioned above, you could run copper wire with switches in place to span the distance depending on where your server room is, and save a little money in the process but if you plan to leave it in place and possibly grow in B2 then run fiber if at all possible as per the guidance given above. A length of fiber and the hardware is well worth the long term investment. Wireless is a viable solution but depending on actual line of sight distance between B1 & B2 access points and weather patterns in your area, you may find yourself having brief periodic outages. No fun after footing the bill to run a wireless solution. Also, wireless means a potential security hole or at least an area that needs more management. Lastly, remember to think about phones in B2. Do you plan to use existing internal VOIP or do you need a separate solution? if so definitely go fiber or at least give yourself the ability to run phone wire through your trench later. GL

11.07.2007 at 11:19AM PST, ID: 20235249

Netman66:

You'll want Multi Mode fibre between the buildings. The limit for Multi-Mode is 275 meters and you're within that limit. Connectors are dependant on the GBIC - most common is SC although LC is coming of age. This will carry Gigabit speeds between building.

You need a switch on both side capable of accomodating Shorthaul GBICs (SX). Stay away from media convertors that adapt fibre to copper - they're prone to heat issues as well as causing a bottleneck.

The switch in the main building should be connected to your existing LAN (to a core switch would be best) unless an existing switch has a GBIC port available.

Copper from the desktops to the new outbuilding switch is fine.

This would allow connection to the building while maintaining security between them - fibre is virtually impossible to intercept and EMI won't bother it.

Just my simplified view!
NM

11.07.2007 at 08:20PM PST, ID: 20239170

shiimera:

the best actual solution is to go wireless the range of new Wirless devices is better than before, i advise you to go for a Router 802.11n (draft) and of course don't forget to secure the communication between computers by using some of the options that your router offer (WPA, WEP, ...)

11.08.2007 at 08:41AM PST, ID: 20242662

Rance_Hall:

a local public school that I have consulted for had a vast wireless network between buildings They wanted to go fiber but they couldnt get an easement for the utility poles from the city government.

They used Motorola radios and directional antennas at both ends but there were significant problems with the solution and they eventually scrapped it for the fiber they originally wanted.

Some of what they experienced likely wont apply to you since the buildings are so close, but you need to be VERY picky about signal strength and bandwidth. When the school went VOIP there just wasnt enough bandwidth in the wireless world to make it work.

They eventually ran fiber. Expensive, but worth it.

The radios were sensitive to weather and since the buildings were far enough apart, they were also sensitive to radio interference and tree growth of all things.

You might want to rethink your need to dig to run fiber. sometimes hanging conduit from telephone type poles on the property (with permission of course) and pulling fiber thru the conduit is a viable alternative.

I did this on an install where the digging would have torn up a parking lot. (The cost of repairing the parking lot was amazing.) Of course the poles are now subject to being attacked by an out of control automobile, but there are risks and options to everything.

11.08.2007 at 09:18AM PST, ID: 20243065

frank_guess:

If you want secure protection for your data and high speed access then I recommend having a large fiber cable installed underground if you have the right of way to have a trench dug and the cable properly shielded, placed into the trench and buried. Make sure that the area is identified on a construction map of the property. Have the cable large enough to handle future growth. Some may say put in small, I say put in a large enough cable for growth. At least tow sets of 36 fibers each. This gives you more than enough capability. Have high speed routing switches to handle traffic load. Have the fiber cables properly terminated in locking cabinets or rooms protected just for network cabling. Connect only needed pairs to switches for communications between sites. If you are going to have both Voice over IP and data moving between the sites then you have enough fiber installed to handle. It may sound like overkill but in the end you will be safe.

11.08.2007 at 01:34PM PST, ID: 20245479

PlusInc:

Direct burial fiber is the way to go. Put it 3ft in the ground (more if you can), and there are very few things that will disrupt your service! The last direct burial I used was belden, and their website has lots of information about it. You would only need a couple of media converters that convert from fiber to ethernet you would then plug direct into your switch or remote device.

IF you don't have the ability to bury (cost of repairing driveway or parking lot surface, obsticles like water mains, or maybe legal issues), then you can fly the cable as mentioned above, but for a run of that length, you would need a number of supports spaced along the path, which could be expensive or difficult to errect.

Is there anything that connects these buildings together? Sewer pipes? Could you pull cable through that? Power line, where you could inject ethernet into the power line?
How about copper for phone lines? Coax? Anything you can utilize even if you have to lease a loop to do it from ma bell?

The only remaining possibilities are RF data links, 802.11x being cheap but flakey, or other solutions such as microwave (I believe mentioned above).

What would *I* do? If fiber was out, the next best solution in my opinion would be www.radiolan.com's BridgeLINK. I have installed maybe 50 of them with GREAT success to link buildings as far apart as 1500ft line-of-sight. You need a pair of the bridges, antennas, and the cables to hook it up. Mounting it is the hardest part... You can get tripod antenna mounts from Lowes for TV antennas and put them on most roof surfaces and the radio links on them. I heavily recommend lightning protection, and I normally use Polyphasers for that, but there are many alternatives. Check radiolan's site for more info.

If I can answer any questions, let me know!

John

11.08.2007 at 02:30PM PST, ID: 20245940

Powerof2Million:

Thank you all for your suggestions; this question is now closed. We will be picking the comments that best answer the question and will reopen and reclose this question to award the points (and the shirts) just after the 2,000,000th question is answered -- so keep responding to the new questions for your chance to win a new laptop!

The fourth, fifth and sixth questions in our Power Questions contest are located at:
Power Question #4 - http://www.experts-exchange.com/Q_22948015.html
Power Question #5 - http://www.experts-exchange.com/Q_22948016.html
Power Question #6 - http://www.experts-exchange.com/Q_22948017.html

Good luck!!

The EE staff

davidwalters

05.23.2008 at 12:16AM PDT, ID: 21629998

we had a 8 pair fibre optic installed to link our factory buildings.. we deal with large files in cad data form.

The fibre had to bured and armoured. It was the best thing we ever done.. we run data on one pair.. cctv on another pair, telephones on a pair leaving us with many more options for future expansion.

And it actually cost less than 3k for total installation so in comparrison, if your looking to the future and you own the land then fifbre is the way to go.

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