Question

what does "death by natural causes" mean?

Asked by: nickg5

Is cancer, heart disease, stroke, pneumonia, etc. considered natural causes?

Dying of old age means the body just gives out after so many years, no illness, etc.?

What % of persons die of old age?


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Asked On
2006-12-17 at 14:29:50ID22096085
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    Answers

     

    by: lherrouPosted on 2006-12-17 at 15:13:37ID: 18155873

    nickg5,

    Here's some good definitions:
    http://nursing.about.com/od/issuesaffectinghealthcare/f/naturalcauses.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_causes

    But remember that the definitions given will vary from state to state and insurance company to insurance company ;)

    Cheers,
    LHerrou

     

    by: nickg5Posted on 2006-12-17 at 15:36:14ID: 18155944

    from one of those links.......
    Q. What is Death By Natural Causes?
    A. Simply put, death by natural causes is a death that is not unexpected. It is not from an accident, a natural disaster, a homicide or suicide. It is also one that is not preventable.

    ..........this last phrase of "preventable"............some deaths that could result from cancer, heart disease, are preventable if the person seeks medical attention............

    ...............that phrase about a death that is not "unexpected."..........so it  is a death that is expected? WHO expects stroke, cancer, etc.?...........

    I'm trying to become clear on death by natural causes where some people fight the cause to the very end and you hear people say they died after a long battle with XYZ.............vs. the people who plan to accept whatever disease or illness they get and do not plan to seek any medical attention and just let the disease or illness due what it will do.
    What does the psychiatric community think of this last group of people? suicide?

     

    by: AiricRPosted on 2006-12-17 at 15:58:11ID: 18155996

    Natural causes........ Means that we have not spent bilions of dollars on research to give the cause of death a name.

    Before modern science, Folks got old and died.....aka, natural Causes....now we die of specific diseases...Its hard to die of Natural causes anymore..Everyone dies of something nowadays.

     

    by: nickg5Posted on 2006-12-17 at 16:06:42ID: 18156025

    so getting cancer is not a natural event that can cause death?
    why is cancer not natural? Did the person ask for it, buy it, abuse their body to get it, etc.?

     

    by: lherrouPosted on 2006-12-17 at 16:11:36ID: 18156043

    Cancer is specifically listed in the Wikipedia article.

     

    by: AiricRPosted on 2006-12-17 at 16:51:19ID: 18156150

    No Cancer is not Natural...Its a Disease.... Natural means you have no prior diagnosis of any disease..you just...DIE !..

     

    by: lherrouPosted on 2006-12-17 at 19:26:32ID: 18156488

    No, natural means occurring without human intervention, either by accident (accidental death) or on purpose (murder, manslaughter, etc).

     

    by: gecko_au2003Posted on 2006-12-17 at 23:26:33ID: 18156996

    [quote]


    Comment from AiricR
    Date: 12/18/2006 12:51AM GMT
          Comment       

    No Cancer is not Natural...Its a Disease.... Natural means you have no prior diagnosis of any disease..you just...DIE !..

    Comment from lherrou
    Date: 12/18/2006 03:26AM GMT
          Comment       

    No, natural means occurring without human intervention, either by accident (accidental death) or on purpose (murder, manslaughter, etc).


    [/quote]

    So can cancer be attained through human intervention or what makes cancer an un natural way of dieing ?

     

    by: RobinDPosted on 2006-12-18 at 00:23:07ID: 18157131

    >Everyone dies of something nowadays.

    I have heard this, also that if they couldn't find anything they had a name for to put 'Pneumonia' on the death certificate.
    I thought this meant that you had stopped breathing, which could either be a symptom or a cause of death.
    A little bit of googling tells me that 'pneumonia' by itself as a cause is not acceptable anymore, they now want recorded how the pneumonia was contracted. In any case I don't think they are allowed to put 'Old Age' in the 'Cause of death' box.

    Getting cheerfully old and not being murdered, having an accident or contracting anything terminal would be 'natural'.
    But you will go sometime - your heart may just stop beating (heart failure), immune system fails(first [and last]thing you catch), liver packs up.... etc. theres probably a name for most things.

     

    by: BoyBlueSkyPosted on 2006-12-18 at 07:41:33ID: 18158999

    No one dies of old age; they die due to complications which accompany old age.  There is always some reason that can be pin-pointed, but as nickq5 said, "death by natural causes is a death that is not unexpected."

    As with all things in this universe, our bodies are subject to entropy and the 2nd law of thermodynamics.  Essentially, all things go from a state of order to disorder unless the is active intervention from an intelligent outside source, and there really is only so much out intelligence can do.  Instead of putting "natural causes" on the death certificate, one could, in concept anyways, just as correctly write "entropy" or "time".

    This thing all things devours:
    Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
    Gnaws iron, bites steel,
    Grinds hard stones to meal;
    Slays king, ruins town,
    And beats high mountain down.
    ~ "Time" riddle by J. R. R. Tolkien, The Hobbit

    May your life be like a roll of toilet paper, long and useful!
    ^_^

     

    by: _TAD_Posted on 2006-12-18 at 07:57:25ID: 18159157



    No one dies of old age or of natural causes anymore.  All causes are known, even if they are expected.

     

    by: BoyBlueSkyPosted on 2006-12-18 at 09:17:11ID: 18159886

    To _TAD_,

    Plenty of people die of "natural causes".  I think you must have missed nickq5's definition:
    "Death by natural causes is a death that is not unexpected. It is not from an accident, a natural disaster, a homicide or suicide. It is also one that is not preventable."  By preventable, I am sure he is referring to what is within our power, not the theoretical possible.

    When you say "All causes are known, even if they are expected", you are not countering our established definition.  We never suppose that causes are unknown or even unknowable.  Acknowledging death as unavoidable, we simply distinguish between what is generally expected (or natural) versus unexpected (or unnatural).

    I think this is, perhaps, a matter of miscommunication.

    ^_^

     

    by: nickg5Posted on 2006-12-18 at 10:57:36ID: 18160608

    Death by natural causes is a death that is not unexpected.

    the above is not my definition and I do not understand the word unexpected.

    No one expects to get cancer, etc. but when they do isn't it a natural disease that they got naturally and if they die from it after "fighting" it then they died after a long battle with cancer which is a natural cause?

    What about the ones who get it but do not fight it and just let it kill them?

     

    by: neopolitanPosted on 2006-12-18 at 11:02:52ID: 18160648

    I believe that the use of the word ‘natural causes’ is not scientific but is medico-legal. The concept will vary in different countries and states. As you can see in the following article, there are no specific definitions for the terms natural and unnatural death.
    http://www.bristol-inquiry.org.uk/final_report/annex_a/chapter_18_12.htm

    It is easier to talk about unnatural death. Three groups of deaths fall in to this category- violence , Violation and Volition.
    http://www.giftfromwithin.org/html/recovery.html
    This would include deaths caused by active human intervention; so homicide and suicide are unnatural. Accident and misadventure including adverse outcome of operations, poisoning and drug abuse would be unnatural. Death from animal attacks can be classified unnatural though some can disagree. Failure of medical intervention in a medical condition to prevent death is not considered unnatural death.
    http://www.custance.org/old/seed/ch1s.html

    This then leads to the definition of natural death. Generally we mean by this the death happening all living beings. Before the advances in medicine made more and more clinical conditions to be diagnosed, every ‘old’ individual’s death was said to be due to natural causes. Cancer, heart failure, stroke etc are caused of natural death. If there are no clear cut unnatural causes and there is a cause that happens from a change in the physiology, then the death is due to natural causes.

    Ageing has many mechanisms which are not very clear. As the cells continue the division in successive generations, the DNA which is the basis of genes become damaged.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageing
     Ageing is characterised by the declining ability to respond to stress, increasing homeostatic imbalance and increased risk of disease; Macrobiotics is the art and science of longevity. Euthanasia- does it constitute natural or unnatural death in an elderly dying patient? opinions will vary.

    Another problem is defining old age. Is it chronological or physiological? then it will become difficult oto give figures too.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elderly
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

     

    by: _TAD_Posted on 2006-12-18 at 11:10:31ID: 18160703


    I guess what I was trying to say is that no death certificate should contain "Natural Causes" as the description of death.

    100 years ago, many death certificates stated "natural causes" as the reason for death.  This could have been undiagnosed cancer, pnemonia, heart failure, renal failure, etc, etc.  The doctors simply did not know enough information to make a determination of the cause of death.  As long as the death wasn't caused by an outside force, it was deemed as "natural"

    These days the cause of death is almost always known and the death certificates will clearly state the cause.

     

    by: moorhouselondonPosted on 2006-12-18 at 12:14:33ID: 18161156

    Cancer can occur naturally.  It doesn't necessarily mean that there has been an excess of something in the person's lifestyle.

     

    by: BoyBlueSkyPosted on 2006-12-19 at 08:44:00ID: 18166923

    nickg5,

    No offense was intended when I referred to the definition as "nickg5's definition".  I was referring to your 1st post after the original question where you gave a Q&A definition from "one of those links".  I didn't want to go searching the links, and I assumed that the future dialog would be based off of that given definition.  So to refer to it, I associated it with the person who had actually posted it... which would be you.

    I apologize for any confusion this may have brought.

    ^_^

     

    by: MASQUERAIDPosted on 2006-12-19 at 11:31:46ID: 18168276

    The definition of "Natural Causes" as a cause of death has changed over time.

    In the nineteenth Century one of the commonest causes of infant deaths on medical certificates was "Teething"!  In older people it was "Senile Decay" (A term occasionally still used today!)

    Nowadays as already mentioned it is death from an expected cause, usually the disease process leading to death is also given but where there is no other information on the certificate it normally means organic failure that is age related.

     

    by: ReddgumPosted on 2006-12-20 at 10:25:34ID: 18175134

    Let's hope this thread dies of natural causes sometime soon :-)

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