Democratic Ethics

That a very nice collection of what Im sure are interesting articles
(I have yet to read them all).

Perhaps you would care to offer us your own opinions on the subject to jumpstart the discussion?  

Even without reading the links I can tell you that *no* political party (including the Republicans, whom I suspect DesertRat prefers) has a monopoly on ethics. More accurately, the lack of ethics is the order of the day in America.  

Our society has consistently incentivised people, particularly in the fields of politics, business and law, to cheat, lie, whore and steal in the name of 'winning'.  It's not enough to win or lose fair and square; it's not even an option for many of us.  Even our professional athletes can't make it on their own natural talents anymore - they have to resort to steroids and other 'performance-enhancing' drugs.  

As to making decisions based on what one knows at the time of making the decision and perhaps realizing later that the decision was wrong based on information gleaned after the time the decision was made:  I defy you to provide me concrete evidence that any politician, Republican, Democrat, or otherwise, has made decisions based on facts or notions hitherto unknown at the time was in possession of a crystal ball to predict the future.  

By proof, I do not mean posting links to websites authored by people with an agenda so obvious that a blind man could see through it.  Ever heard of the word 'propaganda'?  Contrary to popular believe, propaganda and journalism are two different things, and don't give me that standard bull$hit line about the 'liberal media' when you've cited sources such as The Spectator.  

I find it laughable that some of our Republican citizens still rant about Whitewater, Mrs. Clinton's futures trading, Crouching Intern/Hidden Cigar, ad nauseaum - perhaps Mr. Flynt can provide the cash bounties required to uncover some similar dirty laundry on the undoubtedly learned, august and morally stainless Republicans currently and previously serving (I use the term loosely) our country.  At least Bill Clinton was fooling around with women, and women of legal age at that.  More than I can say for Mr. McCreavy, Mr. Foley and Mr. Craig...

Contrary to popular *belief* - correction to 4th paragraph :P

Me thinks you doth protest too much.

If you'd like to make the point that Democrats or left-haded people or people whose name begins with 'R' have scandals, then: Yes!  Quite true.

You are probably thinking in terms of Democrat versus Republicans, however.

If your point is "See, like Republicans, Democrats have lots of scandals", then OK.

HOWEVER, if your point is that Democrats are worse, then you seem quite wrong and have done nothing to prove your case.  

Republicans have three very big weaknesses when it comes to scandals.

[1] They are the party of big money.  The Clintons, for example, got into trouble for taking the wrong furniture.  Compare that to the billions and billions of dollars in question in the Bush administration.  Haliburton has made billions, billions have been lost in Iraq, the Enron/Bush connection, ...

[2] The Democrats are the little-people party.  They have the agenda of caring for teachers and minorities and poor people.  That agenda is less inconsistent with corruption.

[3] The Republican party claims to hold the moral high ground.  Compare Craig and Barney Frank.  Barney Frank can actually go and date guys.  To be a good Republican, Craig has to push for discrimination against gay people (e.g. himself), he also had to find a woman to pretend to have a marriage with and he had to get squalid airport bathroom sex.



Your own examples solidly point to you being wrong.  Here's one:
http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html  - Quote: If I knew in 2002 what I know now, I would not have voted for the War.  Nothing has changed before or since!!!

There are several things wrong here.  First, it clearly isn't a scandal.  Second, what Clinton is saying is OBVIOUS.  Despite his lies, I honestly doubt that BUSH would have pushed for war in 2002 if HE knew in 2002 what he knows now.

Third, of course things have changed.  Many things.  We now know that evidence was invented.  We now know that intelligence was cherry-picked.  We now know that Bush has major problems telling the truth and honestly facing reality.  We know that Bush has huge ego problems.


Power corrupts and politics and scandals go hand in hand.  If your point is that Democrats have ethics issue also: Agreed.

If one party is worse, it will be the party who:
- Is the big money party and not the people-first party
- Is the party that claims the moral high ground
- Is the party that is the Ends-Justifies-The-Means party
- Is the party that most pushes for discrimination

This one sure does stick out from your list.

Gerry Eastman Studds (1937-2006)- Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1973 to 1997. The first openly gay member of Congress. Censured by the House of Representatives for having sexual relations with a teenage House page. (Revised: 10-17-06)

<<[1] They are the party of big money.  The Clintons, for example, got into trouble for taking the wrong furniture.  Compare that to the billions and billions of dollars in question in the Bush administration.  Haliburton has made billions, billions have been lost in Iraq, the Enron/Bush connection, ...
>>

Oh, and the Democratic party doesn't have big money? Why don't you check to see how much money the Clinton's have.


<<Compare that to the billions and billions of dollars in question in the Bush administration.  Haliburton has made billions, billions have been lost in Iraq, the Enron/Bush connection, ...
>>

Here is another leftist conspiracy theory.

<<Is the big money party and not the people-first party>>

You might as well erase all current political parties.

<<Is the party that most pushes for discrimination>>

This is inaccurate.

If George John Tenet took his head out of his butt before 9/11 maybe we could have stopped the attack, and actually had good intelligence information.

<<<Oh, and the Democratic party doesn't have big money? Why don't you check to see how much money the Clinton's have.>>>

We are talking relative here.  Sure a president will have money.  Compare them to the Bush family.  They come from old money.  They get their donations from huge companies like Enron.


<<<Gerry Eastman Studds>>>

Apparently became 'outed' during the investigation.  The problem with homosexuality being unacceptable is that 4% of guys will be homosexual whether you like it or not.  So if in my public life I was forced to pretend I was gay, the first cute and willing female page I came across would be

Studds suffered from the same social malady that Craig did.  It was 1983 and being openly gay meant you were unelectable.  Sure, Craig's behavior was seedy, but we all have needs.  My problem with Craig is that he is a hypocrite.


<<<Here is another leftist conspiracy theory.>>>

This is just a statement of well publicized facts.


[[[ <<Is the party that most pushes for discrimination>>  This is inaccurate. ]]]

Of course it is accurate.  The one issue that turned the south Republican was civil rights.  The civil rights issues surrounding gender preference is still the Republican rallying cry.  This is how a gay guy ends up being anti-gay.

Question: Democratic Ethics ....Let the truth be known...

Answer [m-w]: VaporWare
Function: noun
widely advertised but has not and may never become available

Answer [m-w]:  forked tongue
Function: noun
: intent to mislead or deceive -- usually used in the phrase to speak with forked tongue

           Hypocracy about Hypocracy

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/04/opinion/main3230595.shtml

trip to the wrong bathroom on the wrong day cost him a Senate seat.

"It is my hope he will be remembered not for this, but for his three decades of dedicated public service," chirped McConnell, who just days before was denouncing Craig's "unforgivable" desires, sicking the ethics committee on the misdemeanor senator and stripping him of his committee assignments.

Republicans leaders, who took no action against let-the-good-times-roll Senator David Vitter after the Louisiana Republican's penchant for prostitutes was revealed, couldn't get Craig out of their caucus quick enough.

The senator's interest groups ratings were as predictable as his hypocrisy. He had a 100 percent rating from the Christian Coalition, and a 0 percent rating from the Human Rights Campaign. He was the best of the bunch as far as the Business-Industry Political Action Committee was concerned, and pretty close to the worst in the eyes of Public Citizen.

Comment by Melanie Sloan, Executive Director, Citizens for Responsibility & Ethics in Washington

CREW's Melanie Sloan Responds to Senator Craig Resignation - 36 minutes ago
Melanie Sloan, executive director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, said today:
"In light of the public uproar that forced Senator Larry Craig (R-ID) to resign over a guilty plea to disorderly conduct in connection with an attempted sexual encounter with an undercover officer in a Minneapolis airport restroom, the Senate should immediately begin an examination of two other Senators whose past conduct is both illegal and in violation of Senate ethics rules."

"First, Senator ........
     -etc-

http://news.google.com/?ncl=1120013493&hl=en&topic=n&btclp=1&scoring=r

 Ethics - to support who, what, goal matters!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20546340/site/newsweek/ White House: Why Gonzales Bailed

an internal Justice Department probe was expanding to include allegations that Gonzales had lied to Congress, created mounting anxiety at the White House,

Democratic ethics is about the responsibility side of democracy.  

There are five principles of democracy that follow from mutual respect:  social equality, deference to the majority, minority rights, freedom and integrity.  A familiarity with these principles is required to provide a foundation for judging ethical behaviour in the public sphere, and for resolving ethical dilemmas in a democratic context.

http://www.yorku.ca/igreene/HONEST.htm

Integrity

Integrity is honesty modified by concern and respect for our fellow human beings.  As Stephen Carter puts it, "one cannot have integrity without being honest ... but one can certainly be honest and yet have little integrity."  For example, a party could make a campaign promise that it would fight crime by doubling the sentences available under the Young Offenders Act and making them mandatory.  If the party gets elected and follows through with its promise, we would consider it honest.  But there are many studies that show that young offenders learn how to become better criminals in the places where they are incarcerated, and the longer they are jailed, the more effective they are as criminals when released.   If party officials were aware of these studies and admitted their credibility, but ignored them in order to gain easy votes, then these officials would lack integrity.

Telling a lie is dishonest.
               . . .
we can think of no examples in a peace-time democracy where dirty-handed actions could be justified as ethical.  Public officials may try to rationalize their dishonesty for several reasons.  

First, there may be a lack of moral creativity about how to resolve a difficult situation with integrity.  

Second, public officials may learn to act according to the norms of the political culture they find themselves in, and the Canadian political culture often justifies dirty hands actions as necessary when, in fact, they are not.  In other words, if everybody seems to do it, it's OK.  

Third integrity demands courage:  dirty hands solutions are often easier, and sometimes less risky, than solutions that conform to integrity.

Not infrequently, a political party will make a number of election promises, and then break many or most of them once elected.  The flip-flop of the federal Liberal party on abolishing the GST after the 1993 election is only the most recent example of this tendency.

three ethical duties on the part of public officials.  

First, they have a responsibility to act as impartially as possible when carrying out a program established by law.  

Second, they are acting as trustees for the entire citizenry, and therefore they have a fiduciary responsibility not to abuse that trust.  

Third, they have a duty to account for their activities and decisions.

...admitted this to a reporter:  

You ask any member why they're here and they'll tell you it's to serve the people.  That's bull! ... They're here because of why we're all here.  Because we're arrogant and full of ourselves, vain and ambitious. ... I'll at least admit it."  (Toronto Star, June 15 1996)

A great many stories about political corruption have involved sex -- although more-so, it seems, outside of Canada rather than inside.  But Canadians, polite and proper as we think they are, have also had their share of sex-and-politics scandals.  For example,................have given away some defence department secrets to a stripper.
                       -etc-
Our view is that politics-and-sex issues must be judged from the perspective of mutual respect rather than from a position of prevailing social standards or taboos about sex.
                      -etc-
   [Professor Ian Greene's Home Page]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/223201_west06.html

Spokane Mayor Jim West, who championed an anti-gay agenda during his tenure as one of the most powerful Republicans in the Legislature, yesterday admitted to using the trappings of his current office to entice what he thought was a young adult man but denied allegations that he molested two young boys more than 20 years ago.

Nonetheless, West's tacit acknowledgement of gay sex sent political shock waves across the state.

In more than 20 years in the Legislature, West had initiated legislation to outlaw sexual contact between consenting teenagers; supported a bill that would have barred gays and lesbians from working

            -etc-

the person posing as the teenager initially indicated he was 17 when the online conversations began and later told West he turned 18 in March.

said, "You son of a bitch, you better get me, 'cause if you don't, you're dead."

West was charged .......

"The public's trust is eroded when what elected officials advocate is different from how they conduct their own life."

 cutthroat politician. He likes power over people -- and over young people."

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=webwest22&date=20060722&query=%22jim+west%22+spokane

"I wish he could have lived long enough for his reputation to be restored to the place of honor that he deserved," said Mr. West's ex-wife, Ginger Marshall. They remained close after their brief marriage

 "This was a guy who knew how to play politics."

Mr. West had used his city computer to cruise online for young men, offering City Hall positions and gifts in exchange for sex.

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/jimwest/story.asp?id=050805_west_main

they were introduced to West by Hahn and were supplied marijuana to smoke in Hahns South Hill apartment by the sheriffs deputies.

[from above] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abscam

"... what have we come to if turning down a bribe is 'heroic'?""

http://www.ourfuture.org/issues_and_campaigns/accountablecongress/ney/rapsheet.cfm

Ney used the power of his office to help a Washington lobbyist buy a casino company in Florida. Shortly after the deal fell through, the company's owner was killed in what police describe as a professional hit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff

Abramoff and his law firm were paid at least $6.7 million by the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI) from 1995 to 2001, which may manufacture goods with the "Made in the USA" label but is not subject to U.S. labor and minimum wage laws. After Abramoff paid for Tom Delay and his staffers

Rep. Ralph Hall's (R-TX) statements on the house floor attacked the credibility of escaped teenaged sex worker "Katrina," in an attempt to discredit her testimony regarding the state of the sex slave industry on the island

a Russian energy company, funneled almost $3.4 million to Abramoff and DeLay

bragged that he could help ......... because he "had good relationships with members of Congress

GrassRoots Interactive..was a small..firm controlled by Jack Abramoff. Millions of dollars flowed into GrassRoots Interactive in 2003, the year it was created, and then flowed out again to unusual places

Fortunately, Bush never met Jack so he was not vulnerable to tainting

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/1237/Abramoff.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/T/m/bush_abramoffcheck.jpg
http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/nucleus/media/3/20060204-BUsh-jack.jpg
http://www.thehollywoodliberal.com/bush_abramoff_together1.jpg
http://dangerousintersection.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/Bush%20and%20Abramoff.JPG
http://www.theweeklydonut.org/wp-content/donuts/2007/01/Actual%20Unretouched%20Photo.jpg

Based on the title, "Democratic ethics", I thought this was a q about oxymorons.

Dems are *clearly* so much worse on this it can't escape anyone but BobSiemens.

Let's see:

1) Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass, allowed woman to suffocate/drown in car after he drove drunk, around midnight, into water and fled the scene, not getting her help, but instead spent next 10-12 hours or so sobering up and figuring out how to maintain his political career (first things first, after all!).  
RIP Mary Jo Kopechne.  You were worth more than 10 Teddies.  No autopsy was allowed.
Final result ... Kennedy lost his license for a little while -- ouch, a brutal punishment there, eh?  
No doubt he was just driving her to her hotel, with no thought of sex, as he claimed.  Obviously that simple errand would be a job for a drunk Senator and not a lower-ranking aide.
Number of women drowned by Repubs: 0.

2) Gerry Studds had sex with underage page (not wrote lewd phone msgs to pages, actually took the kid on a trip for sex).  Turned his back on the formal "censure" from the House (censure, ouch, another inhumane punishment, wow what these Dems have to endure just for committing felonies -- statutory rape, Bob, since you didn't seem to know).  
He later got two standing ovations from other Dems and was re-elected 5(+?) times.
Number of pages raped by Repubs: 0.

3) Bill Clinton.  Assaulted women before and during his presidency; no word on after -- yet.  Committed perjury, suborned perjury, lied in court filings numerous times, threatened people, sic'ed the IRS on people, and a host of other crimes in attempting to avoid paying one woman he assualted civil damages.  Where's that concern for the "little" people from Dems we keep hearing about??
Also had *lots* of people die "suddenly" -- just coincidence, of course, although the list is far, far more convincing than anything surrounding JFK.
Number of women assaulted in Oval Office by Repubs: 0.

4) HRC.  Her crimes are well known, although not quite as extensive as Bill (cut her some slack, though, topping him in crimes is almost impossible).
5) William "Cold Cash" Jefferson: 90K of bribe money in his freezer.
6) Alcee "Show Me The Money" Hastings: impeached for taking bribes as a fed judge.  The evidence was so overwhelming almost all Dems voted for the impeachment; when Charles Rangel votes to impeach a black man, you can be sure it was a slam dunk case.
Got elected as a representative from Fla. (?), still questions surrouding his finances and handling of money.  
7) Dan "Stamps" Rostenkowski:
8) Barney Frank: Allowed (yes, he *knew*) his male lover -- originally himself a prostitute -- to run a male escort service out of Frank's apartment.  
9) Harry "Who Needs To Own Property In Order to Profit It From It" Reid: Made over $1M on land he didn't own.
10) Patrick "Voting at 3:00AM" Kennedy: DUI, crashes into barricades -- luckily not killing anyone before arriving so far as is known --, slurred speech, smelling of booze, you know, typical Kennedy driving incident.  Claimed he was immune to arrest because he was "going to a vote"; cops didn't buy it, it being about 3AM at the time.  Immediately sent off to "rehab".  "Reporters" didn't seem to care much, despite history of driving death in Kennedy family background.

*ALL* still supported, to some degree or another, by their Dem friends.  These are not supported -- I guess what they did was much worse than allowing a woman to drown.
11) James "Chain Gang" Trafficant: bribery, racketeering, forcing aides to work on his farm, and others I can't remember.  Actually had to go to jail for some serious time -- wow, he must have lost his Dem membership card! -- so is not currently serving.  Should be released soon, maybe he can win re-election then.
12) Gary Condit: everything points to Chandra Levy being his Mary Jo Kopechne.  Yet he was defeated for reelection.  I guess only Kennedys and Clintons get free passes on deaths.  

There's a lot more, but it's too disgusting to rehash it all.


Now, what did Craig do again?  Right, right, he touched another guy's foot with his.  That animal!!


>> Is the big money party and not the people-first party <<
Soros is rich.  Hollywood "stars" are rich.  Kennedy's rich off his daddy's bootleg money.  Edwards is rich off trial lawyering.  


>> Is the party that claims the moral high ground <<
Yes, but it would be hard to be on low ground compared to Dems.  You'd have to be under the swamps in New Orleans to get that low.


>> Is the party that is the Ends-Justifies-The-Means party <<
Such as allowing killer drivers to keep their Senate seat because they have seniority?


>> Is the party that most pushes for discrimination <<
Your usual ignorance of history showing thru.  Repubs outvoted Dems on *EVERY* civil rights bill.  Dem filibustering prevented a c r bill from being passed long before '64.  KKK Robert Byrd played a big part in that.  I think he may still hold the record for one of his c r filis.


>> This is how a gay guy ends up being anti-gay. <<
How is he "anti-gay"?  Because he believes in male-female marriage.  Can't you be gay and believe in that too?  Same with his other positions.  You claim he's "anti-gay" positions just because the uber-gay lobby supports different positions.  Why don't you stop thinking solely in Dem "group think" and realize that a gay person is entitled to believe differently from other gays, just as -- sit down for this one -- blacks should have a right to believe different things on "affirmative action" and "reparations".

I think you need service pack two update to dictionary. If it is some game of "us against them", it is not to think you are of one party in common with others against all other parties. It is elected vs electorate. The citizens vs their 'selected' representatives. The majority vs the powered elect.

So what if sides go for head count of crooks in one party and crooks in other parties is there a single party what all members having clean hands? I do not think corruption has much to do with any particular horizontal groups, it is vertical, the bigwigs and bigshots above.

Or do you want more example for counterpoint?

If you like not old news (goes back to Lincoln's opponents - republicans) try current media:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i8Aavb8_Lkq31hQMelIUXGooSPew

Illinois' Ryan Found Power, Then Failure
By JOHN O'CONNOR  Aug 22, 2007

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (AP)  A small-town pharmacist who entered local politics, former Gov. George Ryan became one of the most popular political figures in Illinois and an international crusader against the death penalty before falling into disgrace.

Instead of enjoying retirement, Ryan, 73, finds himself fighting to stay out of prison after being convicted of racketeering and fraud while in public office.

Some saw his interest in issues surrounding the death penalty as an attempt to divert attention from the scandal.

His pardon of four death-row inmates and commutation of the sentences of 167 more, just days before he left office, even inspired talk of a Nobel Peace Prize.

Ryan was convicted last year of taking payoffs from political insiders in exchange for state business while he was secretary of state from 1991 to 1999 and governor after that. Prosecutors said he steered state contracts and leases to insiders and used tax dollars in his political campaigns.

A three-judge appeals panel this week upheld his 6 1/2-year sentence

-etc-

o=>>   Does it really matter what party he and his ilk belong to (this year)?   ++++++++

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2136868720070821
Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:23PM EDT

In 2006, a jury convicted Ryan and Warner on 18 counts of racketeering, conspiracy, fraud and other offenses involving favoritism and kickbacks for state contracts and property leases that enriched Ryan and his friends. The two maintained their innocence throughout the trial.

Ryan, a Republican, won a single four-year term as Illinois governor in 1998 before retiring under a cloud. He ordered a moratorium on executions in Illinois in 2000 after 13 death row inmates in the state were found to have been wrongly
convicted.  Continued...
before leaving office in 2003, he emptied the state's death row


o=>>   er, aren't democrats supposedly the ones who are out to set all prisoners free?

In Chicago Democrat politics, they used to say vote early and vote often.  Even the dead in the cemeteries voted, according to voting records.

"The Cook County Democratic Organization was and is one of the most powerful political machines in American history. Commonly called the "Chicago machine", the organization dominated Chicago politics from the 1930s through the 1970s. It relied on a tight organizational structure of ward bosses and precinct captains to maintain discipline, as well as patronage and graft to reward supporters.
[...]
The most famous example of the Chicago machine in action was in the 1960 presidential election. Daley believed John F. Kennedy would be a tremendous help to Democratic candidates on the ticket, and so he used all the machine's power to turn out the vote for Kennedy. Kennedy won Illinois by only 9,000 votes, yet won Cook County by 450,000 votes, with some Chicago precincts going to Kennedy by over 10 to 1 margins. Illinois' 27 electoral votes helped give Kennedy the majority he needed."
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Democratic_Machine  Right before elections, it seemed like every city worker was working to get out the votes.

Chicago, the city that works.  My kind of town :-))


My 25 years in Illinois started right after the massive corruption of Paul Powell, Democrat Secretary of State, was made public.
Powell set a new standard even in Illinois.

The following quote snippets, which I arranged for your entertainment, are from http://mikefelten.com/id10.html

"THERE'S ONLY ONE THING WORSE THAN A DEFEATED POLITICIAN AND THAT'S A BROKE ONE"-Paul Powell.

"The office of Illinois Secretary of State has a long history of corruption. Holding that office in the 1960s, was an enterprising criminal named Paul Powell who dressed in dreary black garments like a mortician. Those applying for drivers licenses and car and truck title registration and such had to make their payments payable TO PAUL POWELL. Since it was made out to his name, he figured it was perfectly okay to pocket those checks and money orders. [Some people just made the remittances TO PAUL POWELL, not Paul Powell, Illinois Secretary of State.] Powell kept shoeboxes full of those payments in his hotel apartment. One mistake. Being a cheapskate, he did not tip the maid who discovered the shoeboxes with the loot in his closet. She turned him in.
[...]
The famous Paul Powell shoebox was actually more than one box, and not all were shoeboxes. There were also metal boxes, briefcases, and envelopes. This treasure trove, roughly $800,000 in cash, was discovered two days after he died, when Powell's staff and his estate executor gathered his belongings from the hotel room and storage area. The other, less famous findings included 49 cases of whiskey, 14 transistor radios, and two cases of creamed corn.
[...]
I called a taxi then asked the cabbie where to go to register my truck. He said "You just go over to Paul Powell's." Like it was somebody's house or something. "Oh no, It's the Secretary of State's office, Paul Powell is the Secretary of State. Paul Powell's is in Champaign."

He dropped me off in front of building with a big "Paul Powell" sign blazing accross its front. No Department of Motor Vehicles sign or Illinois State sign or any other sign just "Paul Powell" singular, alone on the sign.

I stood in line garbed in my hot pink winter coat and matching hot pink sling back shoes. A navy mini dress with hot pink along the sleeves and hemline completed the picture of a dumb blonde Californian without a clue as how things worked in Illinois

When the clerk asked me to "Please make your check out to Paul Powell."

I replied with alarm "I'm not making my check out to some guy."

The clerk looked at me like I was nuts. "It will be just fine." she said soothingly, "See, all the checks and money get filed with the receipts."

She pointed me over to where other clerks were filing checks and cash with pink receipts into shoe box shaped filing boxes with lids.

One of those clerks told me "See we file each receipt with its check or money," as she waved a pink receipt then placed it with money from her other hand. "Then it goes into these boxes." She places the receipt and cash into a box. "We keep the receipts between the money or checks so they don't get all mixed up or lost." She held the box so I could see inside.

The box was full of checks and cash and there were a lot of them too. Half of the office in front of the counter was filled with clerks processing receipts, checks and cash into "shoe box" files.
[...]
"The closet was full of money," Rendleman said. It took three bank tellers more than four hours to count the money.
[...]
Powell never earned a state salary of more than $30,000 per year, yet in the last year of his life, his federal income tax return showed an income of more than $200,000. At his death his estate totaled $3.2 million, and, when settled in 1978, was worth $4.6 million, including nearly $1 million in racetrack stock.

Yes, Ryan was a (relatively rare) corrupt Repub.  But even your own post proves the point that Repub votes don't tolerate, and even celebrate, their party members' crimes:

>> Ryan, a Republican, won a single four-year term as Illinois governor in 1998 before retiring under a cloud. <<

ONE term and out, and "under a cloud".  Have you ever heard of the manslaughtering Ted Kennedy being referred to as "under a cloud"?

<<<...was a (relatively rare) corrupt Repub.  >>>

I swear, sometimes the only theory that makes sense is that you are an intelligent person just trying to get a laugh at our expense.  If so, bravo!

ScottPletcher,

I do not want to take sides, prefering apolitical stance on it, but you should admit that Teddy was NOT convicted and sent to prison, Ryan was convicted and is headed to prison (still), although I grant that his releasing prisoners stance is typical issue for stabbing democrats. As I recall he was thought as die hard republican, elected numerous times, other offices, not just one. A 'machine' person who sided with outlawing farming to improve economical ratings.

But you should accept that the corruption thing is not limited to one single party in politics. I'll bounce the other party next in support of WaterStreet.

> "Ted Kennedy being referred to as "under a cloud"?"

No, I've heard "drunken womanizer", the flame heard is more typically "democrat" if not his last name, both being facts applicable to others, but though of as obscene to flamer.

I agree with Bob, Republicans have been found corrupt since party first got on ballot, and that continued through to this day. That does not mean other parties are any cleaner.

>> but you should admit that Teddy was NOT convicted and sent to prison <<

Quite so; indeed, that's the point entirely.  Teddy is far more corrupt and criminal than the vast majority of Repubs who have been forced to resign or sent to jail, yet he gets no punishment.  Teddy's the poster child for double standard and preferential treatment.


>> I swear, sometimes the only theory that makes sense is that you are an intelligent person just trying to get a laugh at our expense.  If so, bravo! <<

And the only theory that makes sense is that you are dense ... really dense.

Well, corruption is everywhere, and we can't control that. I think they need to do thorough investigations on capitol hill on all parties. Each party has their own stand on certain issues. We could go back and forth with corruption and scandals that has taken place on both sided of the fence. Democrats and Republicans spend most of their time bickering about each other than actually trying to resolve America's issues.

[half&half, first my comments then just quotes/extracts]

WaterStreet > "The Cook County Democratic Organization was and is one of the most powerful political machines in American history. "

That is mostly about power, even abuse of power, for benefit of all, not so of corruption. This more for those less familiar with such issue. Illinois politics are not one-sided they are double sided in this way. Chicago is Democrat only. The rest of the state is republican only. You do not like it being that way where you live, then you move to other town. It is not 100%, except when counting ballots, which goes over 100% at times, either party, but it is clear majority lending to the idea implemented of three representatives being voted on at a time, to get minority a chance to get in with under 30% of vote count.

Or say it: Illinois is all republican, except for chicago which is democrat. Similar story has it that it is Cook County (democrat) vs all other counties (republican). It used to be that people would be in acceptance in this manner - two senators, each must be from different party, and gubernatorials should always bring in the other party, switching back and forth. Chicago being so devoid of republicans, the cause was made to permit a number of independents to win office, which eventually led to some form of rebellion (to media) highlighted during a national convention.

-------------

In fairness, I first thank WaterStreet for Powell example, I remembered the shoebox story, and think it may be more applicable to general discussion of topic. I deferred to do counterpoint first. But in fairness, for Illinois politics, I hit at recent republican governor going to Klink, with that office, switching parties, here is an earlier one, connected as well to WaterStreet reference to Race Tracks. Lemme try a google to assist my poor typing. While unable to find google hit on a tidbit, my recollection was there was a story that the law was getting on the cases of all those dealing in race track stocks, the governor said "No, no way, not a chance, not me, I never ...", nearly everyone else doing a version of "no comment", followed by interview with #2 Democrat in Chicago, who said "Yeah, I did it, so what, whaddaya t'ink youze gonna do abouddit?" The governor gets hit up for lying, the Cook County Chicagoan Democrat (job dealer) got ignored, for telling it like it is. Remainder just snippets, please bear or <skip>, IMO on topic(s)

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,910150,00.html?promoid=googlep [extracts]

Political scandal is not new to Illinois,nor is it the exclusive property of one political party. In 1956 a top Republican official, Orville Hodge, was convicted of looting the statetreasury of $1,450,000; last year it was discovered that the late secretary of state, Paul Powell, a Democrat, had stashed away $800,000 in shoeboxes. Less than a year before the 1972 election, another scandal has surfaced that could severely damage the Democratic machine of Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley.

For more than two months, draft indictments naming U.S. Court of Appeals Judge Otto Kerner and several of his former top aides have been waiting approval by U.S. Attorney General John Mitchell for submission to a grand jury. Until recently, Kerner had an impeccable reputation. He was Democratic Governor of Illinois from 1961 to 1968 and won national prominence as chairman of a presidential commission investigating urban rioting.

The charges stem from sizable profits he reaped from race-track stocks while he was Governor.

Letter of Intent. In 1968 a routine audit of Kerner's tax return revealed that he had listed income from the sale of stock in a firm he called the "Chicago Company." Further investigation showed the firm was in fact Chicago Thoroughbred Enterprises, Inc. (C.T.E.), whose principal shareholder at the time was Mrs. Marjorie Everett, once known as the "queen of horse racing" in Illinois. C.T.E. owned Washington Park and Arlington Park, two race tracks near Chicago. Their suspicions aroused, Internal Revenue men checked the return of Theodore Isaacs, a Kerner crony and Illinois revenue director, who also had listed income from sale of Chicago Company stock.

In 1966, when Kerner and Isaacs were in office in Springfield, they were allowed to buy 50 shares of C.T.E. stock. Each put up $25,000. At that time the 50 shares were worth a total of $300,000, but they paid only about what the stock had been worth in 1962. In an effort to disguise the bargain, Mrs. Everett signed a "letter of intent" to sell the stock that carried a fake date of 1962.

Six months later, Kerner and Isaacs traded their C.T.E. holdings for 5,000 shares each in the Balmoral Jockey Club, another racing venture of Mrs. Everett's. In 1967 they sold the Balmoral stock for $30 a share, collecting a profit of $125,000 each on their original $25,000 investment. Government investigators also learned that Kerner and Isaacs turned a profit of $22,400 apiece within a ten-month period on stock in other Everett interests.

When Mrs. Everett was called in earlier this year by Government probers and asked to explain her dealings with politicians, she promptly blew the whistle on Kerner and Isaacs. Kerner appeared twice before a federal grand jury in Chicago to insist that when he was Governor he had not intervened in the allocation of racing dates, which might have benefited Mrs. Everett. Other state officials, though, reported that Kerner had conferred with them about racing seasons. However it came about, during the tenure of the Kerner administration Mrs. Everett was able to get additional racing dates and turn Washington Park into a track for harness racing, markedly increasing her income.

The investigation was not limited to the Kerner transactions. Tax investigators uncovered a seemingly endless string of politicians, both Republicans and Democrats, who held stock in one horse-racing association or another during the 1960s. Most embarrassing to the Daley administration, besides the allegations concerning Kerner, were revelations about other pals and close political associates of the mayor who had been trafficking in race-track stocks. Among them were two former law partners of the mayor, one a federal judge, the other an Illinois circuit-court judge; a Democratic congressman and leader of the Illinois Democratic house contingent; and a high-ranking Democratic county official. This disclosure prompted Daley himself to deny owning any racetrack stock. "I never have and I never will," he said.

Ethics legislation that would require public disclosure of income by officeholders, which failed to pass in the last General Assembly session, is expected to be re-introduced next month. And there is fresh pressure on racing associations to abide strictly by a regulation requiring them to list all stockholders, including their nominees. None of this would have pleased Paul ("Shoebox") Powell, who used to tell colleagues: "There's only one thing worse than a defeated politician, and that's a broke politician."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,907101,00.html?promoid=googlep

In a loud and clear voice, Otto Kerner last week vowed before a packed courtroom in Chicago that he would "continue to challenge the erroneous verdict rendered against me." With that, Judge Taylor sentenced Kerner, 64, a U.S. Court of Appeals judge and twice Governor of Illinois, and Co-Defendant Theodore Isaacs to three years in prison and $50,000 in fines. In February, a jury had found both guilty of taking part in a dubious race-track stock deal in which Kerner, while Governor, netted nearly $145,000 in profit.

The prosecutor, U.S. Attorney James Thompson, who had recommended "substantial" terms for both men, said that he thought Taylor had acted out of "compassion," since Kerner could have received up to 58 years in prison, and Isaacs 48. As matters stand, it is possible that neither man may ever serve a day in jail. They were sentenced under a provision that makes them both eligible for immediate parole.

http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/1998/ii980732.html

Kerner, a former governor and federal judge, died after serving a term in prison. Among the issues raised by the book's authors are Kerner's views on civil liberties, and how his views differed from those of the man who prosecuted him

today's broad, mostly unchallenged consensus on such matters as capital punishment, fixed sentencing and tougher penalties for select felonies by citing a lasting conservative shift in political mood that began in earnest 30 years ago.

That conservative consensus on civil liberties still holding sway in Illinois owes much to Nixon's presence on the national stage. But the prevailing sentiment was dramatized and enhanced by the careers of two men, Otto Kerner, the last Democrat to be elected to two terms as Illinois governor, and James R. Thompson, who was elected governor four times and inaugurated the 22-year GOP reign in Springfield' s Executive Mansion.

He reminded the pardon board that Otto Kerner, not themselves, held Crump's fate in his hands. "That awesome power is left, as it should be, to the governor of this state. ... You gentlemen are no more than ministers to the governor's conscience." Thompson knew that four months earlier, Kerner, an avowed death-penalty opponent but a defender of state law, had refused to block the electrocution of murderer Vincent Ciucci, who shot to death his wife and children. Days after Crump's parole board hearing, Kerner accepted the voluminous evidence in Crump's favor and decided to give rehabilitation a chance ... Kerner's ambivalence on his role as the final arbiter of capital punishment in Illinois reflected an intense but healthy public debate. ...

In July 1970, Kerner bristled when two special agents of the Internal Revenue Service's intelligence division, meeting Kerner in his judicial chambers, asked if he understood his rights under the Miranda ruling. He not only understood them, he told the agents, he was a dedicated defender of those rights. Nonetheless,

..Otto Kerner, the Mr. Clean of the state's Democratic Party, had built his public reputation upon "corruption, arrogance, cynicism."
..
The prosecutorial power of the federal government, descending on Chicago like a stealth bomber, helped foster cynicism and defeat compassion in public affairs. And Thompson displayed no ambivalence in signing a capital punishment bill that replaced electrocution with lethal injection. The bill's sponsor called it "energy conservation" legislation.
..

http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/1975/ii7510295.html
Thompson's use of extortion rather than bribery was such a new idea that ..
Thompson was using immunity to let some guilty people off easy who in turn acted as stool pigeons..
..Thompson's conviction rate in contested cases during 1973 was only 66.6 per centconsiderably below the showing of earlier U.S. attorneys in the office and under the national average (74.9) in federal court cases.
...Thompson is organizing his campaign on the theory that Walker will be his opponent; that the incumbent can beat off any challenge by State Treasurer Alan Dixon, Lt. Gov. Neil Hartigan or any other candidate supported by Mayor Daley. Walker has been under considerable fire from Daley,
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1407305/posts
A controversial fundraiser and adviser to Gov. Rod Blagojevich has had a business relationship with First Lady Patti Blagojevich for eight years, the governor's office acknowledged Thursday.
..Antoin "Tony" Rezko, a Chicago developer who has been influential in shaping Blagojevich's administration and policies, has "worked on various projects" with Patti Blagojevich since 1997
..Rezko was one of several Blagojevich associates served with grand jury subpoenas last week in an investigation into allegations that plum government appointments were traded for campaign cash
...in Illinois, politics is a criminal brotherhood which encompasses both so called parties, any time any political hack gets indicted, you can be sure, that he is not innocent. The most amazing thing about Georgie Boy Ryan was that no elected pol in either party ever called for him to resign, mainly because they exploited his political weakeness stemming from the corruption in his Secretary of State's office to get favors and deals from him.. at one time the Outfit had there own Congressman. Sam Giancana's son-in-law was his chief of staff. ..Remember the Chicago City Council was once known by the endearingly warm name "The Grey Wolves."
..My son has lived there for about ten years and is making his plans to get the hell out within the next six months..He's Florida bound. Two more Republican votes in Florida, where their vote counts.
http://archive.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=290
George W. Bush's questionable activities and profits during his years as a director of Harken Energy Corp. (1986-1993) have come under a fair amount of scrutiny from the media. Mr. Bush has thus far avoided responsibility for those activities, thanks to a compromised investigation by the SEC during his father's presidency, as well as Mr. Bush's stubborn refusal to provide details of those deals.
..Mr. Bush may have filed false tax returns every year between 1986 and 1993. Income tax evasion and filing false returns are both crimes.
..alibi has been contradicted by recent revelations that Mr. Bush received warnings
..George W. Bush evaded $3 MILLION in taxes when he sold his share of the Texas Rangers for over $15 million in 1998. Bush reported the income as a capital gain, which allowed him to pay a rate of only 20% ($3 million), compared with the 39.6% rate for ordinary income ($6 million). TAC's analysis is based on the case of Illinois Gov. Otto Kerner (D), who was convicted in 1972 of income tax fraud for treating a gain of $180,000 in race track stock as capital gains, rather than ordinary income. Jim Thompson was the prosecuting US Attorney, a Republican appointed by Richard Nixon who later became Governor. Thompson convinced a jury that Kerner corruptly used his political influence to increase the value of his race track stock. That's exactly what Bush did, when the man he appointed to run the $9 billion endowment of the University of Texas bought the Rangers for $250 million.
http://genealogytrails.com/ill/governors.html
..Thompson's old law firm, Winston and Strawn, is the same firm that represented former Governor George Ryan against federal charges
..From 2003-2004, he re-entered the public spotlight by serving on the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks
..Otto Kerner, Jr., Democratic --- 19611968....resigned from office 20 May 1968 and was succeeded by his Lt. Governor, becoming a Judge of the United States Court of Appeals, for the 7th Circuit. .He was tried and convicted of Bribery and served time

...Lennington Small, Republican ..was indicted, while governor, for allegedly running a money-laundering scheme when he was state treasurer. He was acquitted, but four jurors later got state jobs, raising suspicions of jury tampering.
..As governor he pardoned 20 members of the Communist Labor Party convicted under the Illinois Sedition act. In 1923 bootlegger Edward "Spike" O'Donnell of the Southside Chicago O'Donnells was released from prison by Small. O'Donnell returned to Chicago as the leader of one of the most powerful bootlegging gangs in the city.
...John Peter Altgeld, Democratic ..Only the intervention of his friend and former protégé Clarence Darrow saved him from complete financial ruin..
..He is best remembered for pardoning the three surviving suspects of a bombing who were convicted after the Haymarket Riot.
..Joseph Wilson Fifer, Republican ..18891893 ...At the outbreak of the Civil War he enlisted as a private in the 33 ILL Inf, and was dangerously wounded at the assault on Jackson, Miss., i.. by dint of hard work and frugality, while supporting himself in part by manual labor, he secured a diploma...the pension commissioner tried to remove him as a typical Republican politician who did not deserve a pension. Fifers pension was $24 a month...Private Joe was hit by an automobile at the age of 92; he lived blind, deaf, and crippled
.John McAuley Palmer,..switched parties throughout his life, starting out a Democrat, he became in turn an anti-Nebraska Democrat (against state sovereignty on slavery), a Republican, a Liberal Republican, returned to being a Democrat, then ended as a "Gold" Democrat. He said, "I had my own views. I was not a slave of any party," and added, "I thought for myself and [have] spoken my own words on all occasions."
Richard Yates, Republican...was a man of rare ability, earnestness of purpose and extraordinary personal magnetism, as well as of a lofty order of patriotism. His faults were those of a nature generous, impulsive and warm-hearted
.William Henry (or Harrison?) Bissell, Republican .. While in Congress he was challenged by Jefferson Davis after an interchange of heated words respecting the relative courage of Northern and Southern soldiers, spoken in debate. Bissell accepted the challenge, naming muskets at thirty paces.
.Thomas Ford, Democratic --- ..took a brief time away from the law to become a spy against Black Hawk shortly before the Black Hawk War...Constitutionally prohibited from succeeding himself, Ford retired when his term of office ended in 1846. He was remembered largely for the Illinois Mormon War...His two sons were both lynched as outlaws in Kansas, one dying under mysterious circumstances

JoeZ430 > corruption is everywhere,
> .. back and forth with corruption and scandals .. has taken place on both sided of the fence.

:-((    -Thank you

> and we can't control that.

Well, may be, yet we each can impact

> I think they need to do thorough investigations

Different than fox guarding henhouse? Have each one investigate own self?

> Democrats and Republicans spend most of their time bickering about each other than actually trying to resolve America's issues.

! Exactly. Judge not by the spoken (bickerings) but by their actions. See common denominator resolve employing math

>>  We could go back and forth with corruption and scandals that has taken place on both sided of the fence. <<

But the media goes ballistic on resignation talk for what Craig did -- which I find hard to believe is actually considered a "crime" until/unless further activities occur -- but hardly mention resignation or use words like "embattled" for William Jefferson or Alcee Hastings (who is *still* cheating taxpayers out of money).

There are no Democratic ethics and no Republican ethics, there are just ethics.  There are no Democratic crimes and Republican crimes, just crimes.  And there are is no Democratic hypocrisies or Republican hypocrisies, just hypocrisies.

In politics, it's bad to breach ethics and it's worse to commit crimes, but it's unforgivable to be a hypocrite.

<<But the media goes ballistic on resignation talk for what Craig did>>

I do agree on this, he really didn't do much besides "bump feet". I'm sure there are a lot of Republicans that would like for him to resign as well, just for the fact he is going to be the one getting front page attention for awhile. The only thing I don't understand is to why he would plead guilty to it. Maybe he was conned into pleading guilty for the slap on the wrist charge to get it out of his hair quickly. If he would have pleaded not guilty I'm sure he would have had to go through a long process, and if he did get found guilty I'm sure his charges would have been pushed for the maximum extent.

>> sure there are a lot of Republicans that would like for him to resign as well, just for the fact he is going to be the one getting front page attention for awhile. <<

100% true ... but why?  **ONLY** because the media is so biased against Repubs.  There's no other reason for making such a big deal of this.

Kennedy drowns a woman and the press covers for him.  Anytime it's mentioned, Kennedy has the brazenness to demand an apology to him!  
[Bill] Clinton assaults women and the press covers for him, writes about "how much he's done for women" [not, though, about how much he did *to* individual women].
William Jefferson is on tape taking bribes -- **true corruption**, of the kind the media calls the "worst" -- and they barely mention it, and don't at all pressure him to resign.

Craig plays footsie in a men's room with *a consenting adult* pretending to be interested in whatever it was Craig was interested in, and the press can't quit mentioning "wrong doing" and "resignation".

As to why he pleaded guilty, I'm sure he was deeply embarrassed [for himself *and* his family] and thought it might go away if he just pleaded guilty.  Alas, the Dem dirt machine observes no rules or bounds.  Clinton was willing to kill cats, threaten relatives, illegally release private personnel and medical records, and that's just *one* Dem.  Larry Flynt (sp?) is still buying dirt too (only on Repubs, despite his occassional claims to the contrary).

As to David Vitter, about whom it was disclosed his number was on the "DC madam's" phone list, when she posted info.  That list is also being selectively leaked by ABC news.  Oddly, though, only Repubs have been named.  I'm sure it's just a coincidence and that ABC has good reasons to keep *all* the info from the public rather than, say, blackmail individuals to keep it quiet.

Where are all the "news" organizations demanding the *full* list be released?  Isn't that what they would do for any info under normal circumstances?

You're right, remember when this incident happened? There were countless things wrong here. For instance, one of the cops said " I thought I had smelled alcohol" and one of the waitresses at the place he was at said he saw Kennedy drinking with somebody else.


http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/04/kennedy.accident/index.html

I will get around to reading all comments in just a bit.

My intent is that the Media, Television, Newspapers, and most of the Internet is that the Republican party is the party of scandals, many of which have never been proved. I also believe that the Republicans clean up their own messes...i.e. Tom DeLay, Gonzales, it was time for Rumsfeld to go, Mark Foley and the latest, Senator Craig.

But there are many times the Democrats who have committed Ethics violations in both houses have let some of them stay on, such as Gerry Eastman Studds, Representative from Massachusetts from 1973 to 1997. The first openly gay member of Congress. Censured by the House of Representatives for having sexual relations with a teenage House page. But the Dems did nothing, dismissed the Ethics Violation and allowed him to continue as a Congressman.

William Jefferson, FBI found $900,000 dollars in his freezer at his home, according to the reports, it was 1 Million and took $100,000 for his own use.

Nancy Pelosi became the Speaker of the House, her first words were, "We are going to have the most Ethical Congress ever." This has not only been disproved, but the Democrats in three polls (PEW, Zogby, and NYT/CBS Poll), have the Dem Congress rated at 18%, which is up from 14% last month.

When Saddam was caught, and Bush stood on the Carrier and proclaimed the war he set out to accomplishment, therefore he did win the War. No one could have predicted a Civil War, or Al Qaeda coming in after the war was over.

I am actually blaming both parties of both Houses, so are the Democrats being honest and is the Media really that BIASED!!!

>> are the Democrats being honest <<
No; no reason to change 100 years of lying.

>> and is the Media really that BIASED!!! <<
Yes; no reason to change 100 years of bias.

I'm a solid 'independent' and find both of the major parties have their fair share of flaws and scandals.  The media will obviously have its leanings, but where I find the most bias about the media is only in people's interpretation of that perceived bias.  If their guy is being picked on, suddenly "the media" is biased against them.

If half the country leans one way and another half leans the other way, it makes the most sense for news organization to keep their reporting as unbiased as possible if they want to keep the widest audience, unless you're specifically targeting a certain political demographic ("fair and balanced"?).

But guess what?  There is no "The Media" anymore.  I'm the media, you're the media...we're all the media now.  Anyone with a blog or a newsletter or a YouTube account is the media.  The days of complaining about "The Media" are coming to a close.

And just for the record, it was only (ha, *only*) $90,000 found in Jefferson's refrigerator, not $900,000.

<<<clean up their own messes...i.e. Tom DeLay, Gonzales, it was time for Rumsfeld to go, Mark Foley and the latest, Senator Craig.>>>

What are you smoking?  Got more?

Oddly, you cite instances where the Republicans should of cleaned up messes but didn't.  The Republicans, for example, basically shut down the House Ethics Committee when they were in power.  The Delay issue should have been an internal ethics matter but wasn't.  EVERYONE should have been screaming for the resignations of Gonzales and Rumsfeld, but mostly it was the Democrats (Gonzales should NEVER have gotten approved).

Foley and Craig were PR scandals.  It is PR, not ethics, that motivated the Republicans.

I'm sorry but you have HUGE biases that prevent you from seeing the truth.  

Pride goeth before a fall and the Republicans are positively in love with themselves.

Media is big business.  Ask yourself how and why a big business entity would be biased against the big business party.

>> Ask yourself how and why a big business entity would be biased against the big business party. <<

CNN was a big business ... are you trying to say Ted Turner likes Repubs more than Dems?  Seriously, you should get some news from a source other than ABC or Pravda West (aka the ny "slimes").  Turner sold out, but those that followed him are extremely biased as well.  Watching for even a few minutes will confirm that.  CNN bashes Bush *all the time*.  This is the same CNN, of course, that soft-balled their reports on Castro and Hussein so that they could keep their offices their open.  Why then should I ever trust what they say?

Regarding ABC and CBS -- the other most biased TV news stations -- :
Big business entities are composed of multiple smaller entities.  Those entities each have their own leaders.  Those leaders have their own biases, some very strong.  Those leaders are given some leeway to run things as they see fit (and rightly so in general, although the blatant on-air biased reporting should stop).  
Are you seriously trying to say that Dan Rather wasn't biased?  Or, for that matter, Cronkite.  Cronkite was a left-wing nut who now espouses theories that Bush was in on 9/11.  Johnson (LBJ) was right -- an ultra-leftist Dem gets something right, the exception that proves the rule! -- Crock-ite should have been brought up on charges of treason during Vietnam.
Or George Stephanopoulos.  Formed aide to B Clinton, widely regarded as more leftist, now the "neutral" moderator at ABC.  Riiiight.  Left-wing reporter after left-wing reporter on the original "big 3" (old) networks, all claiming now to be "neutral".  There are enough former Dems as on-air "personalities" on old networks to fill a stadium, all more-or-less openly rooting for Dems.

No doubt partly because of this ****extreme**** bias, the old networks *are* losing viewers.  Since Fox News presents opinions from all sides, including even allowing actual conservatives to appear on air -- gasp! -- their audience is soaring.

Other than for brief snippets, I haven't watched "mainstream" network news in 20 years.  It's so extremely one-sided there's just no point.

This is what I read here - "My politician is less of a lying worthless piece of crap than your politician!"

Face it, being a politician, especially in the US at this time, means you are a corrupt, hypocritical, lying, back-stabbing, money grubbing pervert.

Who cares that Politican A from A party is less of those things than Politicain B from B party. Because Politican C from B party  is less of those things than Politicain D from A party. See, the slime is spread equally around.

Now if the terrorist would have flown planes into Congress when all of them were there we'd the praising them rather than trying to kill them and everyone that looks remotely like them while still harassing random people at the airport because they had nail clippers and shampoo in their carry on bag.

<<< Face it, being a politician, especially in the US at this time, means you are a corrupt, hypocritical, lying, back-stabbing, money grubbing pervert. >>>

They say that Washington is like Hollywood for ugly people.

They also say that Congress is a reflection of the American people.  We're the ones who elected them, so we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Now I'm wondering who "they" are.

But comparing the Repubs to the Dems in this regard is still off base.  If RepubA jay-walked and DemB committed armed robbery, yes, they're both "criminals", but in vastly different degrees.

N.J. *alone* puts Dem far ahead in truly corrupt politicians:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hjdy23HooJJCPBHK9y2TSy75pu2Q
[emphasis added]
"
NJ Corruption Probe Nets 11 Officials
By TOM HESTER Jr.  1 hour ago

TRENTON, N.J. (AP)  It extended from the south Jersey seaside to Newark's gritty streets, leading investigators on what a federal prosecutor dubbed "a corruption tour of New Jersey."

The probe into alleged bribe-taking in the awarding of public contracts culminated in the arrest Thursday of 11 public officials, [***] all but one of them Democrats [***].
"

Gee, who's really suprised by that?

ScottPletcher > But the media goes ballistic on resignation talk for what Craig did -- which I find hard to believe is actually

I prefer to dodge a 'Craig did" issue, concerning 'crime'. But it remains case of going public and how that done, recent news compounding by reporters trying to ask opinion from potential supporters in the Capitol, and not only not getting a pro/con, not even getting a 'no comment' but ending report that those asked question promptly leave the room. While I would not want to agree media is ballistic, I could understand that they could be finding reasons to do so, such as not being able to get more stories to report.

Graphixer > In politics, it's bad to breach ethics and it's worse to commit crimes, but it's unforgivable to be a hypocrite.

:-))            [nice comment]

JoeZ430 > he really didn't do much besides "bump feet". I'm sure

I agree with comment, although I may need another dictionary to figure out what is "bump feet". Simple example from own past, one person needs to go, wanting quick access, other person is done but slow about permitting access, and things heat up. Recollection is that his admission was more to 'crime' of violence than of ... the other thing no one wants to talk about in Washington.

ScottPletcher > Kennedy drowns a woman and the press covers for him.

I am sorry to have to disagree again, not about teddy or woman but about media. If the press covered for him you would not be able to make such a comment. Simple KISS. I may agree with half the remainder of comment though

JoeZ430 > There were countless things wrong here. For instance,
> he was apparently disoriented by medication when he crashed his car

I disagree/agree in this way although I do not recall some 'facts'. Person should be responsible for actions, no 'excuse' such as good drug or bad drug or ignorance of the law (or a "one of 'us'" not a "one of 'them'") or social status. 'Excuses' are not good or bad, they are inexcusable, inapplicable to justifications including right to crash one's own vehicle. I've a separate complaint, where I suggest that when we are operating a moving vehicle and find ourselves getting drowsy and/or disoriented that we should be allowed to get the vehicle off the road and stopped asap. I bear witness that the enforcers can and do order such drivers to return to the flow of traffic even if they are disoriented and drowsy. Whether I am the one drowsy or the one coming head on towards me is drowsy, I'd prefer we all have option available to get out of the way, to get out of harm's way.

DesertRat1 > and most of the Internet is that the Republican party is the party of scandals, many of which have never been proved.

I don't want to side on this one, but find I must respond with pastie of recent question:

Who are the only two USA Vice Presidents not elected to office?

> I also believe that the Republicans clean up their own messes...i.e. Tom DeLay, Gonzales, it was time for Rumsfeld to go, Mark Foley and the latest, Senator Craig.

Disagree a lot, Delay's delay a prime obvious retort. I'll give Craig a pass, but not repubs. They did not really ditch him until after he quit, that was more it was after he tried to not resign. I think I agree with above that he did himself in, perhaps being disoriented and drowsy, a TBD.

> No one could have predicted a Civil War,

As an all inclusive you are incorrect, those elements had already been set in print to the administration. What remained was what any wanted (us) to believe.

> I am actually blaming both parties of both Houses, so are the Democrats being honest and is the Media really that BIASED!!!

Agree on first half, but not media, since you minimally ignore or disregard the massive amount of media pushing Republican-only, having more obvious bias

BobSiemens > What are you smoking?  Got more?

<heh> on a day like today I really agree with you an that

ScottPletcher > Crock-ite should have been brought up on charges of treason

Wow! I think you are documenting here for us sufficient data concerning media bias. What led you to such conclusion?

stone5150 > a politician, especially in the US at this time, means you are a c

I tend to agree. Party is irrelevant, 'Democratic Ethics' is term not reflective od a specific party or three

Graphixer > Now I'm wondering who "they" are.

i also tend to agree with that

>> Disagree a lot, Delay's delay a prime obvious retort. <<

Delay is a *perfect example* of the double standard.  

1) What crime, *specifically*, was Delay alleged to have committed?
2) Was his prosecution for this crime excessive and politically motivated?

1) The noted scholar and researcher John Lott has addressed this issue crisply and succinctly:
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/2005/10/what-was-tom-delays-crime.html
[my comments in brackets]

"Other than conspiracy, the indictment against Representative Tom Delay does not specify the exact crime that he committed. David Frum's excellent column yesterday discusses a very fundamental objection to the case raised by E. J. Dionne.
"
[E.J.] Dionne this morning puts his finger on the central and hopeless flaw in the case against DeLay: "The corporations that forked over the cash to DeLay's PAC did so not because their hearts were filled with affection for those particular Texas legislative candidates but because they recognized DeLay's power over federal legislation." (Italics addes.)
"

Texas law forbids corporations to give money to state candidates. The case against DeLay charges that he conspired with corporations to help them circumvent this law by routing the money through political action committees he controlled. But as Dionne acknowledges, the corporations in question did not care about Texas politics. They wanted to give to DeLay's political action committees, which was perfectly legal. It was DeLay who wanted to support the Texas candidates - which was also perfectly legal. The only way you can link these two legal transactions into one illegal transaction is by claiming that the corporations wanted to break the law. Dionne - his reporter's instincts trumping his partisan zeal - admits that of course the corporations had no such desire, and so there was no crime.

To put this into simpler terms [in deference to BobSiemens, no doubt]. Suppose a corporation hired Dionne to give a speech at their next annual meeting. Dionne then turns around and gives his fee to Democratic candidates for the Texas legislature. Has any law been broken? Obviously not. The corporation does not intend to help Texas candidates: It does so only inadvertently and indirectly, as a consequence of Dionne's decisions.. . . .
"

2) Delay's prosecutor, Earle, was a well-known political hack and hatchet man who also falsely pursued Hutchison until a judge finally ordered there was no legal merit to the charges -- he then held a press conference to leak any alleged dirt he found to the press.  He was Nifong'ing because Nifong'ing was cool.  It took half a dozen or so grand juries for him to get enough cousins on there to actually issue an indictment.


Tom Delay's *ONLY* real crime was in being effective against Dems.  And that causes the leftist media to go after the political death penalty -- hounded out of office by the party-mongering whores of the media.

Yeah, politicians and corporations wanting to buy them would never lie to keep themselves out of trouble, now would they?

They have no need to when telling the truth will work.  I understand that being an ultra-leftist and so lying constantly yourself, with or without need or justification, you naturally assume others do also.  But most people don't need to, since they aren't trying to force a failed and inhumane world view on others.

> The only way you can link these two legal transactions into one illegal transaction is by claiming that the corporations wanted to break the law.

Mixed apples. Enforcer pulls you over to charge with crime. You think officer kind, likeable and want to ecourage a fair hearing. So you give officer a big pile of money. You really think you can claim it was not a bribe since you had no intent to bribe?

> Delay's prosecutor, Earle, was a well-known political hack and hatchet man who also falsely

More olde 'news' refuted numerous times while Delay delayed leaving office and 'arranged' for new laws and rules to protect him retroactively. He argued for example, that only one person in entire state was against him, and only because of 'politics'. However, two judges and two juries of fellow Texans had already ruled against him, that's 27-1 of opposition to his stance (of 'excuses').

As he further deteriorated the party by keeping name on ballot until last possible moment, taking as much funds as possible -- out of state of Texas, etc., iclude some subsequent convictions -- I cannot fathom why you would want to have your own personal reputation associated with such a slime ball. Why not show favor for someone more honorable, any party?

Or, how about someone from each side, who would label one from other side as 'bad example', then try to also find one from other side (pov) as 'good example' or at least 'not bad' or 'not as bad'?

>> You really think you can claim it was not a bribe since you had no intent to bribe? <<

Conspiracy and most crimes *do* require an Intent to commit a crime.  *If* you truly had no intent to bribe someone, then it was *not* a bribe.


>> However, two judges and two juries of fellow Texans had already ruled against him, that's 27-1 of opposition to his stance (of 'excuses'). <<

Bull.  50 or 60 or more fellow Texans had refused to even indict him (and remember, indictment is so easy "you can indict a ham sandwich").  Eventually any prosecutor can poison the pool enough by public statements to get enough sheep and/or partisan Dems to go along with an indictment.  Then all you need to find is a leftist judge -- wow, that's the easiest part, just pick one anywhere.


>> More olde 'news' refuted numerous times <<

Not refuted, just denied.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_DeLay

Thomas Dale DeLay (born April 8, 1947) is a former

for taking political retribution
known as "The Hammer"
pressure lobbying firms to hire Republicans to top positions.

In the early 2000s, DeLay helped to coordinate efforts to redistrict congressional districts in Texas to favor the election of more Republicans. In 2005, a Texas grand jury indicted DeLay on criminal charges that he had conspired to violate campaign finance laws during that period. DeLay denied the charges, saying that they were politically motivated, but Republican Conference rules forced him to resign temporarily from his position as Majority Leader.

two of his former aides were convicted in the Jack Abramoff scandal.

DeLay ran for re-election in 2006, and won the Republican primary election in March 2006, but, citing the possibility of losing the general election, he announced in April 2006 that he would withdraw from the race .. to remain on the ballot, despite having withdrawn from the race.

he was expelled for drinking and vandalism

In the eleven years DeLay ran the company, the IRS imposed tax liens on him three times for not paying payroll and income taxes

pesticide that was used in extermination work led DeLay to oppose government regulation of businesses,

During his time in the Texas Legislature, he struggled with alcoholism and gained a reputation as a playboy, earning the nickname "Hot Tub Tom".

By the time of his election to Congress, he drank "eight, ten, twelve martinis a night at receptions and fundraisers."[

He has stated that he "was no longer committing adultery by [the time of] the impeachment trial" in 1998

he is estranged from much of his family, including his mother and one of his brothers

DeLay has not spoken to his younger brother, .. since 1996

DeLay made a name for himself by criticizing the National Endowment for the Arts and the Environmental Protection Agency

No one close to DeLay corroborated that DeLay attempted to serve. The Washington Post reported that he had received student deferments while at Baylor and had kept the deferment after his expulsion from Baylor in 1967

DeLay was appointed deputy whip by then-Minority Whip Dick Cheney in 1988.

DeLay was elected Majority Whip against the wishes of House Speaker-elect Newt Gingrich.

DeLay was not always on good terms with Gingrich or Dick Armey, the House Majority Leader from 1995 to 2003, and he reportedly considered them uncommitted to Christian values

DeLay unsuccessfully tried to remove Gingrich from his position as Speaker

in 1998, a group of Russian oil executives had given money to a nonprofit advocacy group run by a former DeLay staffer and funded by clients of lobbyist Jack Abramoff in an attempt to influence DeLay's vote on an International Monetary Fund bailout of the Russian economy.

executives from the oil firm Naftasib had offered a donation of $1,000,000 to be delivered to a Washington, D.C.-area airport in order to secure DeLay's support .... a $1 million check via money transferred through the London law firm

DeLay denied that the payment had influenced his vote.

DeLay had committed perjury during a civil lawsuit brought against him by a former business partner in 1994.

suit, charging DeLay ..with breach of fiduciary duty, fraud, wrongful termination, and loss of corporate expectancy. While being deposed in that suit, DeLay claimed that he did not think that he was.... believed that he had resigned two or three years previously. However, his congressional disclosure forms, including one filed subsequent to the deposition, stated that he was either president or chairman of the company between 1985 and 1994. Blankenship also alleged that Albo money had been spent on DeLay's congressional campaigns, in violation of federal and state law.

DeLay .. settled for an undisclosed sum.

After being indicted on September 28, 2005, DeLay stepped down from his position as Majority Leader. He was the first congressional leader ever to be indicted

DeLay allowed centrist or moderately conservative Republicans to take turns voting against controversial bills

in April 2005, Time Magazine published a photo from a July 2003 trip to Israel, in which DeLay is seen smoking a Cuban cigar.[43] The consumption or purchase of Cuban cigars is illegal in the United States

in March 2005, several days after the brain-damaged Florida woman's feeding tube was disconnected for the third time, the House met in emergency session to pass a bill allowing Schiavo's parents to petition a federal judge to review the removal of the feeding tube. DeLay called the removal of the feeding tube "an act of barbarism." DeLay faced accusations of hypocrisy from critics when the Los Angeles Times revealed that he had consented to ending life support for his father, who had been in a comatose state

In 2003 Majority Leader DeLay set up a charity for abused and neglected children, with part of the funds going to the 2004 GOP convention. The New York Times described it as "aides to Mr. DeLay... acknowledged that part of the money would go to pay for late-night convention parties, a luxury suite during President Bush's speech at Madison Square Garden and yacht cruises. ... "They are using the idea of helping children as a blatant cover for financing activities in connection with a convention with huge unlimited, undisclosed, unregulated contributions,"

DeLay was accused of endorsing violence in the wake of a series of high-profile violent crimes and death threats against judges

Abramoff lobbied DeLay to stop legislation banning sex shops and sweatshops that forced employees to have abortions in the Northern Mariana Islands when Abramoff accompanied DeLay on a 1997 trip to the U.S. commonwealth. While on the trip, DeLay promised not to put the bill on the legislative calendar.[

In 2000, the U.S. Senate unanimously passed a worker reform bill to extend the protection of U.S. labor and minimum-wage laws to the workers in the Northern Mariana Islands. DeLay, then the House Republican Whip, stopped the House from considering the bill.[50] DeLay later blocked a fact-finding mission

DeLay received gifts from Abramoff, including paid golfing holidays to Scotland, concert tickets, and the use of Abramoff's private skyboxes for fundraisers

Both organizations denied that they had intended to pay for DeLay's trip

DeLay denied knowing that lobbyists had paid for travel expenses

DeLay voted against a bill that would have restricted internet gambling

doomed the bill by engineering a parliamentary maneuver that required a two-thirds majority vote, rather than a simple majority

paid Christine DeLay a monthly salary averaging between $3,200 and $3,400.... for telephone calls she made periodically

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_DeLay_campaign_finance_investigation

the indictment of Tom DeLay in 2005 on criminal charges of conspiracy to violate election laws ..Texas grand jury.

Judge Priest denied DeLay's motion to dismiss the more serious charges of money laundering and conspiracy to engage in money laundering, and the prosecution is proceeding on those charges.

  DeLay's response to the indictments

DeLay's lawyer claims that indictment was based on non-existent law

DeLay blasted the charges as a "sham" and an act of "political retribution," perpetuated by his opponents. He added, "I have done nothing wrong, I have violated no law, no regulation, no rule of the House."

President Bush still viewed DeLay as "a good ally, a leader who we have worked closely with to get things done

DeLay's lawyers maintain the corporate donations came from normal and legal business activity.

       Grand jury indictments

four charges, including unlawful political advertising, unlawful contributions to a political committee and unlawful expenditures

indicted DeLay for conspiring to violate Texas state election law stemming from issues dealing with his involvement in TRMPAC. Texas law prohibits corporate contributions in state legislative races. The indictment charged that TRMPAC accepted corporate contributions, laundered the money through the Republican National Committee, and directed it to favored Republican candidates in Texas.

new indictment of DeLay from a third grand jury in Austin on charges of conspiracy and money laundering

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/18/politics/main649927.shtml

legislators twice staged walkouts from the Texas Legislature to protest district-drawing that benefited Republican candidates.

And House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, was admonished recently by the House ethics committee for getting too involved.

In a brief order, justices threw out a victory for Texas Republican legislators,

DeLay, the No. 2 House Republican, raised "serious concerns" by contacting the Federal Aviation Administration last year to help locate Democratic lawmakers

A report from the Transportation Department's inspector general found that DeLay's request set off a search that spread over eight hours and involved at least 13 FAA employees.

new plan targeted seven Democratic incumbents, putting them in districts with another incumbent, adding Republicans to their districts or giving them hundreds of thousands of new, unfamiliar constituents.

Any partisan hack can write whatever they want into wikipedia.

Beside, as we all know whether leftists admit it or not, the media is extremely biased overall against Repubs and in favor of Dems, particularly CBS.  So citing CBS "news" is like a Soviet citing Pravda -- you can be sure it will follow the leftist party line.

Retort on current media as soft on a specific political party follows:

http://news.google.com/
- about 1,427 for Nifong
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/06/AR2007090602271.html
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/27454.html
Guilty in the Duke Case
By Stuart Taylor Jr. and KC Johnson
Friday, September 7, 2007; Page A21
-sentence was imposed on Mike Nifong, the disbarred former district attorney of Durham, after a contempt-of-court trial last week for repeatedly lying to hide..evidence of innocence.
-may be the worst prosecutorial misconduct ever exposed while it was happening
-the threat of a massive lawsuit by the falsely accused
-the criminal justice process can oppress the innocent
-and other officials aided Nifong
-the ambition of a desperate Democrat appointed by a Democrat governor and trying to come from behind in a three-way Democrat primary in which he was the only white male, the favorite was a white female and the third hopeful was a black male. The persecution of the members of the
-everything to do with a Democrat candidate desperately manipulating black voters,
-the Democrat establishment's willful blindness or cooperation with that scoundrel
-the Democrat establishment's deplorable decision not to prosecute false accuser

           etc

>>
-sentence was imposed on Mike Nifong, the disbarred former district attorney of Durham, after a contempt-of-court trial last week for repeatedly lying to hide..evidence of innocence.
-may be the worst prosecutorial misconduct ever exposed while it was happening
-the threat of a massive lawsuit by the falsely accused
-the criminal justice process can oppress the innocent
-and other officials aided Nifong
-the ambition of a desperate Democrat appointed by a Democrat governor and trying to come from behind in a three-way Democrat primary in which he was the only white male, the favorite was a white female and the third hopeful was a black male. The persecution of the members of the
-everything to do with a Democrat candidate desperately manipulating black voters,
-the Democrat establishment's willful blindness or cooperation with that scoundrel
-the Democrat establishment's deplorable decision not to prosecute false accuser
<<


What part of that isn't true?  Truth isn't bias.

As Truman said, "I don't give 'em hell, I just tell the truth on 'em and they think it's hell."

>that's 27-1 of opposition to his stance (of 'excuses').
> 50 or 60 or more fellow Texans had refused to even indict him

No, but I'll concede you 12-13 based on my Wikipedia links not quoted by me earlier, essentially there be three juries, 1st convicting, then 2nd <unknown>, then 3rd convicting. Or rather indicting.  So I'll let it ride to 27-14. Not as being representative of majority (which is true) but as being evidence that ther is not just one single person who is even suggesting a semblance of misconduct. Bear in mind that in his own decision to drop out of race, his reason or excuse was that he knew in advance that majority would be voting against him.

> Eventually any prosecutor can poison the pool

Again you are running an operation with old (biased/boughten) news. Several other courtrooms have validated charges are applicable without bias, it is only a matter of whether the charges will stand over time, be upheld to point of actual incarceration or whatever. (exoneration?)

ScottPletcher,

For you and other supporters of DeLay-ing gambits, please accept my question. I am not asking you to condemn the person or what you think of concerning guilt or innocence of person or party. I am claiming that with abundance of... er, 'bad news' about person, why not put forth a backing for one who does not have such baggage?

Why would you prefer to associate your own reputation first with such as have been quoted about the appearances of being less than ethical in land presumed to care about being a democracy?

You are not going to get far with me on blatant unsupported flaming of Wiki

How about another 'media' (democratic) view of the elected?
(google just hit a refresh)

Stack 'em, Rack 'em, and Pack 'em...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/07/us/politics/07thompson.html?ref=us
DES MOINES, Sept. 6  Fred D. Thompson...
In his debut speech as an official contender for the Republican nomination, Mr. Thompson appeared before a crowd here and seemed more animated than usual, gesticulating with a closed fist at a lectern as he spoke of radical Islam, porous national borders and what he described as ineffective government bureaucracies in Washington.

More than anything, he said he was concerned about national safety and its effect on the kind of world his young children would inherit. That is what prompted him to run, he said.

The politicians have been quite busy, quite busy, spending the next generations money, he said, adding later: We need to deliver a message to Washington that were better than that.

If Fred becomes an aggressive campaigner and takes the state seriously  and he hasnt yet  theres no question to me that because hes a celebrity and has a good conservative record with parallels to Ronald Reagan, you cant write him off

If Fred takes Iowa seriously, Iowa will take Fred seriously

Were going to run lean and mean, 

http://www.e-z-smith.com/images/thompson04.jpg
http://www.suprmchaos.com/fred-thompson_063002.jpg
http://sitemason.nashvillepost.com/files/ftDPLq/thompson.jpg/main.jpg
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/04/19/us/19thompson.jpg
http://www.backinskinnyjeans.com/images/2007/07/08/thompsons_2.jpg
http://www.ashlandcitytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070906/NEWS0206/709060405
Thursday, 09/06/07

Thompson's career path may lead to biggest role yet

Even before officially announcing his bid for the 2008 Republican nomination for president, Fred D. Thompson had been selected as commander-in-chief twice.

Most recently in 2005's HBO film Last Best Chance and before that in 2001's television production Rachel and Andrew Jackson: A Love Story.

Known to most people as District Attorney Arthur Branch on the popular television show Law & Order, Thompson's acting credentials have been well established.

It may have been another role  that of a sideburned, 30-year-old Tennessee attorney asking an aide to President Nixon in 1973 whether he knew of any listening devices in the Oval Office  that set Thompson, 65, on an unlikely career path that has spanned politics, lobbying and acting.

Thompson first went to Washington as a protégé of Tennessee's Sen. Howard Baker, after helping run Baker's successful re-election campaign in 1972. He was then appointed by Baker, the ranking Republican on the Watergate committee, as its chief minority counsel. After the Watergate hearings, Thompson went back into private legal practice, established a Washington office and began lobbying. He also took several temporary appointments to government jobs, including special counsel to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee from 1980 to 1981 and special counsel to the Senate Intelligence Committee in 1982.

Thompson's first real acting job came in 1985, when he played himself in Marie

In the film, as in real life, he represented Marie Ragghianti, the chairwoman of the state's parole board who lost her job after reporting Gov. Ray Blanton's cash-for-clemency scandal.

Since then Thompson has appeared in Hollywood blockbusters such as Cape Fear, The Hunt for Red October, In the Line of Fire, No Way Out, Die Hard 2 and Days of Thunder.

In 1994, Thompson  his acting career in full bloom  won election to the U.S. Senate seat vacated when Al Gore was elected vice president t

was romantically linked to country singer Lorrie Morgan, Time magazine's Margaret Carlson and cosmetics executive Georgette Mosbacher.

he was a reliable conservative voice. His votes consistently were ranked as more conservative than 80 percent of his Senate colleagues

he also had an independent streak."I believe that Fred is a fearless senator,"

"By that I mean he was never afraid to cast a vote or take a stand regardless of the political consequences."

He was also a key player in passage of the McCain-Feingold legislation in 2001  one of seven Republicans who voted for it. That vote remains the one black mark on his record among some conservatives, who saw the law as limiting free speech.

Thompson's life changed in 2002 when his daughter Elizabeth ''Betsy'' Panici died at age 38 He decided not to run for re-election in 2002

Earlier this year, he helped raise money for convicted vice presidential aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby's defense fund.

>> why not put forth a backing for one who does not have such baggage? <<

The baggage is phony, and I won't accept those ridiculous leftist lies and bs anymore.  Delay did *NOT* violate the law, and every piece of genuine evidence makes that clear.

Prosecutors can get anyone indicted and to trial.  Look at the Duke rape case.  Nifong would have gotten away with it if they weren't rich.  They'd have had to cop to something to prevent that rogue bastard from railroading them.

And Earle is more Nifong than Nifong.  A conspiracy charge on the last day from the fourth, sixth, eighth or however many grand juries it took is pathetic.  As someone put it so wonderfully at the time:
"You can indict a ham sandwich.  This is a ham sandwich without the ham."


In contrast to all that, you support a known rapist like Clinton and a woman-killer like Kennedy.  And Delay has baggage?????  Are you nuts?  Delay is a saint compared to (either) Clinton.

ScottPletcher > What part of that isn't true?  Truth isn't bias.

I could argue it as not truth, just fact...
Fact of matter is that .... doesn't it read like media flaming democrat, democrats, rather well roasted? NOt that it would matter that the biased guilty ones got off due to mismanagement by the ignorant

While I'd like others to comment on one like a Thompson, that is not the question.
The suggestion is to review and compare the media reports on a DeLay vs one such as a Thompson.
Then my question bcomes, a why you would be spending so much time investment in trying to promote a DeLay while ignoring completely a Thompson?
DeLay is history. Fact.

=============
Off-topic, just saw these appear (new?) in google for those having expressed interest in such before - if like me & Scott, and often missing the more current news
-------------

http://www.nysun.com/article/62197
September 7, 2007 updated 5:59 pm EDT
 Osama bin Laden appeared for the first time in three years in a video today released ahead of the sixth anniversary of the

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/07/health/07suicide.html
Suicide Rises in Youth; Antidepressant Debate Looms

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136925-c,legalissues/article.html
Judge Strikes Down Part of Patriot Act

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/09/07/madeleine.mccann/?iref=mpstoryview
Police in Portugal want the mother of Madeleine McCann to "confess" to having accidentally killed the young girl
the girl's blood was found in a vehicle the family rented 25 days after reporting her disappearance
http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKL0637885520070907?src=090707_1048_TOPSTORY_kate_mccann_to_be_declared_a_suspect
Portuguese police focus on Madeleine's parents
Fri Sep 7, 2007 7:08PM BST
the McCanns met Pope Benedict, who blessed a picture of Madeleine.
British business tycoons and celebrities ranging from "Harry Potter" author J.K. Rowling to soccer stars have contributed

> The baggage is phony,

Read up on the thread re: Vick
Baggage is baggage no matter one's POV or base of power

In review of above, among the bagage is that most members of same political party considered him a bully they'd prefer to not suffer

> Delay did *NOT* violate the law

That is for a trial to resolve, not for the gullibly hopefuls

> and every piece of genuine evidence makes that clear.

The evidence has supported the continuation towards trial by people who had been supporters

> you support a known rapist like Clinton

again, I have not supported him. Try reading this thread. Question of rape is your opinion, not that of judical system assessment of fact

> and a woman-killer like Kennedy.

Ditto prior, re-read above, ane show where I support him, although I may have to ask which, I assume you still refer to teddy ala chappy

> Delay is a saint

er, upon what evidence, the killing of his own father, Oedipus?

> "You can indict a ham sandwich.

I could appreciate that - in some other thread, you have not a leg there to date

> Nifong would have gotten away with it if they weren't rich.  

Almost. Although it had potential to be like days of accused being guilt of something so might as well convict, it appears more of attempt to just stretch process long enough to get a job, then who cares about it anymore

Bear in mind I have not supported him either, and I, not you, raised it as 'bad democrat' in media records

> They'd have had to cop to something to prevent that rogue bastard from railroading them.

Doubtful due to the recklessness employed, and the presumed lack of real interest in prosecuting beyond election. Except for a guilty one. Interesting potential for resemblance to your Clinton reference, concerning what is, or is not, either some definition of physcial relationship, or of consent, or of abuse or misuse. What is a cigar. I dunno. What is a broomstick when penetrating. I dunno. Guy gives 'agency' bif money, what's he to expect to get out of it? When name calling becomes a public nuisance, what is one to do?

Initially, certain team members had convinced many others to 'not cooperate' at all, such as pleading the 5th, let the law make own guesses, one for all and let the innocent protect the guilty.

Reduction in importance of not cooperating coincided with the funnelling of support (funds) to witnesses

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Dudski/2007/08/20/The_Weird_World_of_Sports Aug 20, 2007

Michael Tauiliili, who lead the Atlantic Coast Conference in vowels last season, has been reinstated to the Duke football team. He was arrested earlier this month and charged with assault by pointing a gun, carrying a concealed weapon, driving while impaired, failing to stop after an accident and simple assault.

while Durham County has been plagued by lacrosse street gangs, nobody realized until Tauiliili was arrested that Duke still played football. Therefore, the perception of a threat to the campus and surrounding community was much lower.

In a related story, there is still time to join the annual Dudski collegiate bad conduct roto league.

Michael Vick may face additional charges this week from federal prosecutors. Sealed indictments are rumored to contain information linking Vick to

http://www.acton.org/commentary/commentary_378.php

Can a man scoop fire into his lap without his clothes being burned?1

What would have happened if the Duke Lacrosse team had been the kind of men who were not fans of drunkenness or the dehumanization of women? Perhaps we would be talking about their last season as national champions.
 
Duke's lacrosse team had a market demand for dehumanized women and that demand was met. In such cases, freedom of the market needs to be constrained by moral awareness. Women who strip need help and men who enjoy strippers need help as well.

What if the Duke Lacrosse team had lived such admirable lives on Duke's campus that, when they were accused of doing wrong, it would have been immediately assumed to be ridiculous? Good character, however, was not the norm, as reported by Duke University's ad hoc review committee established to review the last five years of the lacrosse team's reported behavior. The University reported the following:

In contrast to their exemplary academic and athletic performance, a large number of the members of the team have been socially irresponsible when under the influence of alcohol. They have repeatedly violated the law against underage drinking. They have drunk alcohol excessively. They have disturbed their neighbors with loud music and noise, both on-campus and off-campus. They have publicly urinated both on-campus and off. They have shown disrespect for property. Both the number of team members implicated in this behavior and the number of alcohol-related incidents involving them have been excessive compared to other Duke athletic teams. Nevertheless, their conduct has not been different in character than the conduct of the typical Duke student who abuses alcohol. 

The Duke lacrosse debacle exposes the fallacy of a popular American myth: namely, that material advantage, academic excellence and athletic success produce men of virtue, character, and integrity. On the contrary, it produced a team of men who enjoy misogyny. This case also reminds us that broken, weak-willed women can easily be taken advantage of and can easily deceive. America was called out as a culture more concerned about its kids' achievements than their moral formation. Success is not a substitute for character. The case exposed the weaknesses of us all and four lives were devastated in the aftermath.
 
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/27728.html

cloud of suspicion that hovered over Ryan as a result of co-captain David Evans written statement suggesting that either Ryan or teammate Peter Lamade had taken money that previously had been paid to a stripper hired to entertain at an off-campus team party during spring break that never should have been held, much less made mandatory, and ensnared unfortunate underclassmen who did not even know what the entertainment would be until they were told after they came to contribute their share toward the cost. the one who took the money was NOT the one who came to David Evans with the idea of taking the money. The one who just thought about it is Ryan, who is not an attorneys son. David, who is an attorneys son, immediately warned Ryan off that kind of unlawful self-help by reading him the riot act, calling him stupid

http://www.redorbit.com/news/sports/470155/duke_in_the_lacrosse_hairs_a_qa_to_make_sense/

evidence from neighbors that something went wrong that night. One told police, according to Newsweek, that he had heard one of the players shout, "Hey b----, thank your grandpa for my nice cotton shirt." Also, a police search of the house reportedly turned up $160 in cash, the woman's makeup bag and five fake fingernails - which might back up the woman's account that she had fought her attackers.

Just two hours after the alleged attack, a Duke lacrosse player sent an e-mail talking about the visit from the dancers and saying he was planning an event at which there would be no nudity, but "I plan on killing the b----es as soon as the[y] walk in and proceeding to cut their skin off... ,"

Around midnight on the night of the party, a woman called the emergency line and said she and a black friend had been walking past the house and had been taunted with a racial slur.

There has always been a lot of tension between Duke students, who tend to come from privileged families from outside the area, and the residents of Durham, a largely middle-class city almost evenly split between blacks and whites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Duke_University_lacrosse_case

12:53 a.m. - The second dancer calls 911, saying white men who came out of 610 N. Buchanan yelled "nigger" at her

12:55 a.m. - Durham Police Department officers arrive at a quiet 610 N. Buchanan Blvd. They saw there was evidence of a party, but nobody answered the door when the officers arrived.

1:58 a.m. - An e-mail sent from the Duke account of sophomore lacrosse player Ryan McFadyen discusses hiring strippers and "killing the bitches."

[timeline provided by ABC News......]

On May 11, Moezeldin Elmostafa, an African American taxi driver who signed a sworn statement about Seligmann's whereabouts that defense lawyers say provides a solid alibi, was arrested on a 2½-year-old shoplifting charge. He was not the accused shoplifter, but had driven them in his cab. Mr. Elmostafa was subsequently tried on the shoplifting charge and was found not guilty.

Sgt. Gottlieb reportedly told one student who was a U.S. citizen of Serbian heritage, that he could be deported.

Publication of Mangum's identity

In January 2007, lacrosse team member Kyle Dowd filed a lawsuit against Duke University and visiting associate professor Kim Curtis, claiming that he and another teammate were given failing grades on their final paper as a form of retaliation after the scandal broke.] The case has been settled with the terms undisclosed except that Dowd's grade was to altered to a P

On June 18, 2007, the families of the three players announced that they reached an agreement with Duke University

On August 25, 2007, it was reported from multiple sources that the players will file a federal civil-rights lawsuit against the city of Durham.

The players were consuming alcohol at the party. They contacted Allure and requested two white strippers, but the women who arrived, Mangum and Roberts, were respectively black and half-Asian, half-black. One player asked if the dancers had any sex toys

A couple of hours after the party ended, Ryan McFadyen, a member of the lacrosse team, sent an email to other players saying that he planned to have some strippers over and made references to killing them and then cutting off their skin while wearing his Duke-issue spandex and ejaculating. The players suggest that the e-mail was conceived as humorous irony.

Duke requested that the NCAA restore a year's eligibility to the players on the 2006 men's team, much of whose season was canceled. The NCAA granted the team's request for another year of eligibility, which applies to the 33 members of the 2006 team who were underclassmen in 2006 and who remained at Duke in 2007. As of June 27, five of the seniors are reported considering attending graduate school at Duke and playing for the team

In November, Finnerty was arrested on assault charges in Washington, according to the paper. Citing his attorney, the paper said Finnerty had been ordered to perform community service and the charges

The allegations have inflamed already strained relations between Duke University and its host city of Durham, with members of the Duke lacrosse team being vilified in the press and defamed on and off campus. On May 1, 2006, the New Black Panthers held a protest outside Duke University

called the indictments "absolutely outrageous."

"The two that they indicted had no contact with this woman whatsoever," he said. "We are shocked, absolutely shocked. We always thought she would pick out someone who at least had a conversation with her."

What is ethical in a democracy about their students carousing illegally instead of conducting studies while classes are in session.

$

It is pointless to talk about American politics with a few people here. Some are just far too partisan to objectively discuss it. The neocons (which are neither new nor conservative) will call anyone that doesn't love their comrades a leftist or possibly <gasp> a liberal. The bleeding hearts will call you a fascist if you call for any penalty for anyone other than political sanctions and name calling. I say ditch them both, they hav proven over the last 20 years or so that neither work worth a crap and are just screwing us all and we are footing the bill for both. Time for a change in the political landscape.

It is easy to discern who stands for what...

Republicans believe in America
Democrats are against America, unless it becomes Socialist.

Simple

>> Some are just far too partisan to objectively discuss it. <<

Oh, please, you lean so far to the left it's amazing you can walk at all.  What really bothers you is that some people won't agree with your leftist tripe.


>> What is ethical in a democracy about their students carousing illegally instead of conducting studies while classes are in session. <<

What "illegality"?  There's nothing illegal about hiring exotic dancers.  What law are you referring to?

I am a Libertarian and am pretty centered on almost all issues. Maybe it is you are so far leaning right that center looks left to you.

<<< Democrats are against America, unless it becomes Socialist. >>>

I also hear they worship Satan and perform ritual sacrifices using baby pandas.  They also wield magical powers, and can turn turn any Republican gay simply by poking them with a strip of salmon jerky.

          Words, words, so many words.

We all agree that there should be a sheriff in this here town.
In Hipocracy would Madonna Rule or an MD of high renown ?

Rigth now he is of the gunslinging kind, deferring guile or stealth.
When Inflation drive the Dow Jones high have we lost or gained of wealth ?

And still we scream, and complain and rave, citing a right to know
If Hypocracy work to my benefit should I love it or just say no ?

regards JakobA