Question

Batch drawing with quadrangles. How can I use individual transform matrices?

Asked by: Dr_Spankenstein

The code attached creates a quadrangle and stores the 4 corners of the quadrangle in a custom vertex format.  The vertex coordinates are in world space coordinates.  

The problem I am having is if I am to change a parameter such as width or the normal then I have to update all the vertices each time.

How can I create a transform matrix that can be passed to the graphics card so the quad can stay in local space coordinates and then be transformed to world space by the graphics card.

I realize that this is very easy to do for drawing individual quads but when I am batch drawing all quads as an array of vertices then I am not sure how to apply the correct transforms to the individual quads in the array.  How would I also rotate so that the normal is correct?

public Quad(Vector3 centre, Vector3 normal, Vector3 up, float width, float height, int texture_ListIndex)
        {
            Vertex = new VertexPositionNormalExtra[4];
 
            Centre = centre;
            N = normal;
            Up = up;
 
            Width = width;
            Height = height;
 
            // Calculate the Quad corners
            Left = Vector3.Cross(normal, Up);
            UpperCenter = (Up * height * 0.5f) + centre;
            UpperLeft = UpperCenter + (Left * width * 0.5f);
            UpperRight = UpperCenter - (Left * width * 0.5f);
            LowerLeft = UpperLeft - (Up * height);
            LowerRight = UpperRight - (Up * height);
            //texture = texture_ListIndex;
 
            // [Default Texture Coordinates] 
            // - Fill in texture coordinates to display the entire texture on the quadrangle 
            // - This will rescale the texure to fit the exact size of the quadrangle 
            TextureUpperLeft = new Vector2(0, 0);
            TextureUpperRight = new Vector2(1, 0);
            TextureLowerLeft = new Vector2(0, 1);
            TextureLowerRight = new Vector2(1, 1);
 
            // Fill vertices with the new parameter info
            Vertex[0] = new VertexPositionNormalExtra(LowerLeft, Centre, N, TextureLowerLeft, texture_int, Width, Height);
            Vertex[1] = new VertexPositionNormalExtra(UpperLeft, Centre, N, TextureUpperLeft, texture_int, Width, Height);
            Vertex[2] = new VertexPositionNormalExtra(LowerRight, Centre, N, TextureLowerRight, texture_int, Width, Height);
            Vertex[3] = new VertexPositionNormalExtra(UpperRight, Centre, N, TextureUpperRight, texture_int, Width, Height);
        }

                                  
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:
8:
9:
10:
11:
12:
13:
14:
15:
16:
17:
18:
19:
20:
21:
22:
23:
24:
25:
26:
27:
28:
29:
30:
31:
32:
33:
34:

Select allOpen in new window

This Question has been solved and asker verified All Experts Exchange premium technology solutions are available to subscription members.

Subscribe now for full access to Experts Exchange and get

Instant Access to this Solution

  • Plus...
  • 30 Day FREE access, no risk, no obligation
  • Collaborate with the world's top tech experts
  • Unlimited access to our exclusive solution database
  • Never be left without tech help again

Subscribe Now

Asked On
2009-10-30 at 07:03:22ID24858039
Tags

Quad Batch Draw Vertex Format Matrix Transform

Topics

3D Game Programming

,

DirectX Graphics & Game Programming

,

Graphics & Game Programming

Participating Experts
1
Points
50
Comments
17

Trusted by hundreds of thousands everyday for fast, accurate and reliable tech support.

  • "The time we save is the biggest benefit of Experts Exchange to Warner Bros. What could take multiple guys 2 hours or more each to find is accessed in around 15 minutes on Experts Exchange." Mike Kapnisakis, Warner Bros.
  • "Our team likes having a resource that is more secure than just using Google and most experts using this service really know their stuff. It's nice to look here first versus using Google." Dayna Sellner, Lockheed Martin
  • "Anytime that I've been stumped with a problem, 9 out of 10 times Experts Exchange has either the accepted solution or an open discussion of the potential solution to the problem." Kenny Red, eBay Inc.

See what Experts Exchange can do for you.

Got a question?

We've got the answer.

Experts Exchange has been collecting answers to technology questions since 1996…3 million and counting! If you have a question, chances are we already have your answer.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Need individual assistance?

Our experts are ready to help.

If you can't find the exact answer you're looking for, ask our exclusive community of 50,000 experts. You’ll get a personalized answer from a trusted professional.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Want to learn from the best?

Read articles from industry experts.

Thousands of free tech tips, tricks, how-to’s and tutorials are available in our peer reviewed articles section. See for yourself how smart our experts are, no login required.

Screenshot of an Article

Working on a long term project?

Store your work and research.

Save solutions to your questions, answers you’ve discovered through searching plus helpful articles in your personal knowledgebase for easy future access.

Screenshot of Experts Exchange Knowledgebase

Access the answers to your technology questions today.

Subscribe Now

30-day free trial. Register in 60 seconds.

What Makes Experts Exchange Unique?

Members of the expert community talk about why the experience at Experts Exchange is different than what you will find anywhere else.

Trusted by the world's most respected brands.

image of each brand's logo

Faithfully serving IT professionals since 1996.

Experts Exchange Logo

Try it out and discover for yourself.

Subscribe Now

30-day free trial. Register in 60 seconds.

Related Solutions

  1. Projection Transformation
    In the DX documentation, the topic 'What is the Projection Transformation?' is hard to understand. In the documentation: "Notice that the frustum becomes cuboid and also that the origin moves from the upper-right corner of the scene to the center." How it works? ...
  2. Coordinate transformations
    I want to draw some object (for example, line) in the form client area using standard (non-Windows) coordinate system. (0,0) point should be in the left-bottom corner of the window, X axis goes right, Y axis goes up. How can I transform coordinate system inside of Paint event...

Free Tech Articles

  1. WARNING: 5 Reasons why you should NEVER fix a computer for free.
    It is in our nature to love the puzzle. We are obsessed. The lot of us. We love puzzles. We love the challenge. We thrive on finding the answer. We hate disarray. It bothers us deep in our soul. W...
  2. SCCM OSD Basic troubleshooting
    SCCM 2007 OSD is a fantastic way to deploy operating systems, however, like most things SCCM issues can sometimes be difficult to resolve due to the sheer volume of logs to sift through and the dispe...
  3. Migrate Small Business Server 2003 to Exchange 2010 and Windows 2008 R2
    This guide is intended to provide step by step instructions on how to migrate from Small Business Server 2003 to Windows 2008 R2 with Exchange 2010. For this migration to work you will need the fo...
  4. Create a Win7 Gadget
    This article shows you how to create a simple "Gadget" -- a sort of mini-application supported by Windows 7 and Vista. Gadgets can be dropped anywhere on the desktop to provide instant information, ...
  5. Outlook continually prompting for username and password
    There have been a lot of questions recently regarding Outlook prompting for a username and password whilst using Exchange 2007. There are a few reasons why this would happen and I will try to cover t...
  6. Backup Exchange 2010 Information Store using Windows Backup
    There seems to be quite a lot of confusion around the ability to backup Exchange 2010 using the built in Windows Backup feature. This stems from the omission of this feature prior to Exchange 2007 s...

Cloud Class Webinars

  1. Avoiding Bugs in Microsoft Access
    Alison Balter takes and in-depth look at avoiding bugs in Access. In this webinar you will learn about using the immediate window to debug your applications, invoking the debugger, using breakpoints to troubleshoot, stepping through code, setting the next statement to execute, ...
  2. Top 10 Best New Features in Visio 2010
    Scott Helmers gives live demonstrations of the top 10 new features in Visio 2010. This webinar will teach you how to create compelling diagrams by adding shapes to the page with a single click, linking the shapes in a diagram to data in Excel (or SQL Server, or SharePoint), ...
  3. IT Consultant Business Secrets Revealed
    Michael Munger, Experts Exchange tech pro and IT consultant, pulls back the curtain on his very successful businesses and answers question on every IT consultant and business owner should know about. He shares secrets on what he did to solve the 5 most common problems in IT, ...
  4. Disaster Recovery and Business Continuity
    Quest CTO, Mike Billon, gives an overview of the steps involved in building a dunamic disaster recovery plan. Through case studies and an examination of software/hardware tooles for monitoring and testing, you'll gain a better understandin of where you are, where you want ...
  5. Organize Your Visio Diagrams with Containers and Lists
    Scott Helmers uses cross functional flowcharts, wireframe diagrams, data graphic legends and seating charts to teach you: how to ustilize all three new structured diagram components in Visio 2010, the best practices for organizeing shapes in previous version of Visio, how to organize ...
  6. How to Us Objects, Properties, Events and Methods in Microsoft Access
    Alison Dalter gives an in-depbth look at objects, properties, events and methods in Microsoft Access. In this webinar you will learn about using the object browser, referring to objects, working with properties and methods, working with object variables, understanding the ...

Join the Community

Give a Little. Get a Lot.

Join the community of experts here and help other tech pros by answering question in your area of expertise. You can earn FREE access to all Experts Exchange's premium features and resources.

Join the Community

Answers

 

by: ikeworkPosted on 2009-11-03 at 01:42:16ID: 25727291

>> The problem I am having is if I am to change a parameter such as width or the normal then I have to update all the vertices each time.

The solution is to store the entire object, vertices and normals in object's local space. Then apply transformations that puts the object in world space, then you dont have to update the object local data.

>> How can I create a transform matrix that can be passed to the graphics card so the quad can stay in local space coordinates and then be transformed to world space by the graphics card.

What do you use? DirectX, OpenGl, XNA?

 

by: Dr_SpankensteinPosted on 2009-11-03 at 02:42:59ID: 25727591

I'm using XNA and I understand that I will need a world transform (scale, rotate and translate).  What I don't understand is that if I am batch drawing the quadrangles then how do I pass the world transform to the graphics card.

With individual quads it is easy, you just send the world transform for each quad and draw with 4 vertices/6 indices.  What I don't understand is, if I am sending say 16 vertices/24 indices in one draw call, how I can set the individual world transform for all 4 quads?

 

by: ikeworkPosted on 2009-11-03 at 03:34:05ID: 25727866

>> What I don't understand is that if I am batch drawing the quadrangles then how do I pass the world transform to the graphics card.

I can show you that for OpenGL, dont know the XNA-way to do it. For starters, can you show how you draw the 4 vertices/6 indices, cant be much different from that.

 

by: Dr_SpankensteinPosted on 2009-11-03 at 03:45:01ID: 25727943

I've attached a method that I am using to draw my quadrangles in batches.

As you can see, the problem is the following line:

effect_Current.Parameters["xWorldViewProjection"].SetValue(Matrix.Identity * camera.ViewMatrix * camera.ProjectionMatrix);

This will set the WorldViewProjection matrix for the shader but it does it FOR ALL the quads which is why I have left it at Matrix.Indentity.  I can't change it for each indiviual quadrangle as they are all being drawn in one call.

Can you show me how to batch draw them all with their own indiviual world transforms please?

        public void QuadBatchDraw(List<Quad> list_Quad, Effect effect_Current)
        {
            short[] quad_Indices = new short[list_Quad.Count * GameConstants.QUAD_NUMBER_OF_INDICES];
            VertexPositionNormalExtra[] quad_Vertices = new VertexPositionNormalExtra[list_Quad.Count * GameConstants.QUAD_NUMBER_OF_VERTICES];
 
            int index_Index = 0;
            int vertex_Index = 0;
 
            foreach (Quad quad in list_Quad)
            {
                quad_Indices[index_Index++] = (short)(0 + vertex_Index);
                quad_Indices[index_Index++] = (short)(1 + vertex_Index);
                quad_Indices[index_Index++] = (short)(2 + vertex_Index);
 
                quad_Indices[index_Index++] = (short)(1 + vertex_Index);
                quad_Indices[index_Index++] = (short)(3 + vertex_Index);
                quad_Indices[index_Index++] = (short)(2 + vertex_Index);
 
                quad_Vertices[vertex_Index++] = quad.Vertices[0];
                quad_Vertices[vertex_Index++] = quad.Vertices[1];
                quad_Vertices[vertex_Index++] = quad.Vertices[2];
                quad_Vertices[vertex_Index++] = quad.Vertices[3];
            }
 
            // Set technique
            effect_Current.CurrentTechnique = effect_Current.Techniques["Textured"];
 
            // Set parameters
            effect_Current.Parameters["xTexture0"].SetValue(texture_List[0]);
 
            // HERE LIES THE PROBLEM
            effect_Current.Parameters["xWorldViewProjection"].SetValue(Matrix.Identity * camera.ViewMatrix * camera.ProjectionMatrix);
 
            effect_Current.Begin(SaveStateMode.None);
            foreach (EffectPass pass in effect_Current.CurrentTechnique.Passes)
            {
                pass.Begin();
 
                // Divide the Index count by 3 because 3 Indices make 1 Triangle (The PrimitiveType is a TriangleList)
                graphics_Device.VertexDeclaration = new VertexDeclaration(graphics_Device, VertexPositionNormalExtra.VertexElements);
                graphics_Device.DrawUserIndexedPrimitives<VertexPositionNormalExtra>(PrimitiveType.TriangleList, quad_Vertices, 0, quad_Vertices.Length, quad_Indices, 0, quad_Indices.Length / 3);
 
                pass.End();
            }
            effect_Current.End();
        }

                                              
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:
8:
9:
10:
11:
12:
13:
14:
15:
16:
17:
18:
19:
20:
21:
22:
23:
24:
25:
26:
27:
28:
29:
30:
31:
32:
33:
34:
35:
36:
37:
38:
39:
40:
41:
42:
43:
44:
45:
46:

Select allOpen in new window

 

by: ikeworkPosted on 2009-11-03 at 05:26:38ID: 25728645

Can you please show, what class "graphics_Device" is, I suppose it must be there.

 

by: ikeworkPosted on 2009-11-03 at 05:28:22ID: 25728661

 

by: ikeworkPosted on 2009-11-03 at 05:44:55ID: 25728809

Looks like the only way is to set the world matrix as you said:

  effect_Current.Parameters["xWorldViewProjection"]

Are you directly setting the shader parameters with it? If yes, thats a really bad way to implement it.

In OpenGL and DirectX, you can set the object's transformation, before you send the vertices to the graphcis-card.
Otherwise you have to transform all the vertices yourself on the CPU, but thats what the GPU is goot at actually.

Keep in mind, I'm not an expert for XNA, maybe we are just missing something.

Sorry, but for XNA, I'm afraid I cant help you more.

 

by: Dr_SpankensteinPosted on 2009-11-03 at 06:21:13ID: 25729155

Can you please explain how you would tackle this in DirectX as XNA is a wrapper for that?

An alternative solution might be to include the object's transformation in a custom vertex format.

I can only set a max of a vector4 for passing to HLSL so would it be feasible to send the transformation matrix as a group of vector4?
 
I have attached an example of one of my custom vertex formats.

using System;
using Microsoft.Xna.Framework;
using Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Graphics;
 
namespace Cthonian
{
    // Vertices are used to store data you send from your XNA project to the shaders on your graphics card.
    // A Vertex Format conatins a desciption of the data stored in your vertices.
    // XNA comes with some default vertex formats, ranging from the simple VertexPositionColor to the VertexPositionNormalTexture format.
    // Packing each vertex with some extra data requires you to define a custom vertex format
    public struct VertexPositionNormalExtra
    {
        public Vector3 Position;
        public Vector3 Centre;
        public Vector3 Normal;
        public Vector2 TexCoords;
        public Vector3 Extra;       // Extra Information (x = Width, y = Height, z = Texture Sampler Number)
 
        public VertexPositionNormalExtra(Vector3 position, Vector3 centre, Vector3 normal, Vector2 texCoords, float textureSampler, float width, float height)
        {
            Position = position;
            Centre = centre;
            Normal = normal;
            TexCoords = texCoords;
            Extra.X = width;
            Extra.Y = height;
            Extra.Z = textureSampler;
        }
 
        public static readonly VertexElement[] VertexElements =
        {
            // Normal has offset of sizeof(float)*3 because Vector 3 takes up (4*3bytes)
            new VertexElement(0, 0, VertexElementFormat.Vector3, VertexElementMethod.Default, VertexElementUsage.Position, 0),
            new VertexElement(0, sizeof(float)*(3), VertexElementFormat.Vector3, VertexElementMethod.Default, VertexElementUsage.Position, 1),
            new VertexElement(0, sizeof(float)*(3+3), VertexElementFormat.Vector3, VertexElementMethod.Default, VertexElementUsage.Normal, 0),
            new VertexElement(0, sizeof(float)*(3+3+3), VertexElementFormat.Vector2, VertexElementMethod.Default, VertexElementUsage.TextureCoordinate, 0),   
                 
            // I can pass my own custom data into HLSL using VertexElementUsage.TextureCoordinate, 0 or VertexElementUsage.TextureCoordinate, 1 etc.
            // It is seen as semantic TEXCOORD1 in HLSL (.fx file)
            new VertexElement(0, sizeof(float)*(3+3+3+2), VertexElementFormat.Vector3, VertexElementMethod.Default, VertexElementUsage.TextureCoordinate, 3),
        };
 
        // Imagine a stream of vertices is sent to the graphics card.
        // Your graphics card would have a pretty hard time trying to figure out where to split the stream of bytes into vertices.
        // It needs to know the number of bytes occupied by one vertex so it can cut the stream nicely into separate vertices.
        public static readonly int SizeInBytes = sizeof(float) * (3 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 3);    // E.G. Vector 3 (3) + Single (1) + Vector 4 (4) + Single (1) * 4 OR sizeof(float)
        // Since the information is the same for all vertices you create based on this strcut and you only need to read them.
        // You can make it a static readonly
    }
}

                                              
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:
8:
9:
10:
11:
12:
13:
14:
15:
16:
17:
18:
19:
20:
21:
22:
23:
24:
25:
26:
27:
28:
29:
30:
31:
32:
33:
34:
35:
36:
37:
38:
39:
40:
41:
42:
43:
44:
45:
46:
47:
48:
49:
50:

Select allOpen in new window

 

by: ikeworkPosted on 2009-11-03 at 07:27:12ID: 25729824

 

by: ikeworkPosted on 2009-11-03 at 07:34:43ID: 25729914

Sorry, this is better:

  IDirect3DDevice9::SetTransform

  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee421776(VS.85).aspx

 

by: Dr_SpankensteinPosted on 2009-11-03 at 07:41:03ID: 25729995

Well that won't work for batch drawing, only individual drawing?  How can Device.SetTransform be called for each quad if they are being drawn in one call!

 

by: ikeworkPosted on 2009-11-03 at 08:29:54ID: 25730658

Not before each quad. You have to group the quads, that share the same transformation.

 

by: Dr_SpankensteinPosted on 2009-11-03 at 08:34:06ID: 25730699

So in other words there is no way of doing this other than to set all the vertices to world coordinates before drawing as I am doing already?

 

by: ikeworkPosted on 2009-11-03 at 08:42:20ID: 25730784

>> So in other words there is no way of doing this other than to set all the vertices to
>> world coordinates before drawing as I am doing already?

No (not sure for XNA though).
In DirectX and OpenGL there is a way, you must group your objects in different arrays, thats what you normally do. That way one object can be rendered muliple times, so called instancing, you just pass a new transform and send the array again.

 

by: Dr_SpankensteinPosted on 2009-11-03 at 08:52:18ID: 25730920

Ok so updating the vertices each time the quad is changed is the answer.

How would you recommend making the vertex changes more efficient?

My width, height, normal and position all affect each other, I can't set one without changing the other variables.  Should I change all parameters in one method, or should I allow changing of individual parameters and change the other parameters when they are changed?

Thanks.

 

by: Dr_SpankensteinPosted on 2009-11-03 at 08:57:02ID: 25730966

Or perhaps if I use a WorldTransform how can I set the vertex normal based on the rotation?

 

by: Dr_SpankensteinPosted on 2009-11-09 at 04:52:08ID: 25775401

The way I solved this was:

- Take each quadrangle that is to be drawn in the batch.
- Check if its world transform needs to be updated this frame (e.g. has it moved/rotated)
- Transform its local space position by the world transform if necessary
- Add the transformed vertices to a new list
- Draw all vertices in the list in one batch

20120131-EE-VQP-002

3 Ways to Join

30-Day Free Trial

The Experts

98% positive feedback on 31,087 answers since March 2000. angeliii is a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional for his work with MS SQL Server & Develoment.

He has also proven his knowledge of Visual Basic Programming, PHP Scripting and Oracle Databases.

The Experts

97% positive feedback on 10,752 answers since July 2000. lrmoore has more than 18 years experience in the networking industry.

The six-time Mircosoft MVPs specialties include firewalls, virtual private networking, and network management.

Testimonials

"...and excellent source for support... Kind of like having your very own IT dept." Electriciansnet

Testimonials

"I was apprehensive at signing up at first. However... it has already made my life as an IT administrator much easier." JaCrews

Testimonials

"WOW! You guys have great, active, and knowledgeable people on here." moore50

Business Clients

Business Clients

In the Press

"If you’ve got a question... Experts Exchange can supply an answer.”

In the Press

"...an invaluable aid for both IT professionals and those who require tech support."

In the Press

"where IT professionals provide quick answers on just about any topic"

Business Account Plans

Loading Advertisement...