Question

Legacy, licensing, commerce and all that stuff...

Asked by: StillUnAware

Hi developers,

  eventually I persuaded my employer, that writing software in Java is better than in any other commercial tool. But now I got confused - is it really so? The most important question here is this:
  can I legally write a software using SUN jdk, NetBeans and some additional libraries (like: http://www.rxtx.org), maybe build an installer using izPack (http://www.izforge.com/izpack), and SELL the sofware?
  also what licenses or any other documents should be presented for the client to be accepted?

  Any comments on commercial software writing are welcome

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Asked On
2006-03-18 at 01:54:57ID21779064
Tags

izpack

Topic

Java Programming Language

Participating Experts
3
Points
500
Comments
22

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Answers

 

by: el_diosPosted on 2006-03-18 at 05:33:36ID: 16224194

Hi,
JDK is free. See the license :http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/relnotes/license.html
Netbeans for development purposes should be free.(please check the license docs probably on java.sun.com).
You will have to go through the license agreements of the libraries you are using. Mostly as I have found out, you are free to use, a lot of community process libraries are.
Enjoy Java is the way to go. Don't have second thoughts.

 

by: StillUnAwarePosted on 2006-03-18 at 05:40:00ID: 16224218

About the second thought, don't worry, I am the one who urges all to use Java, though I was forced to use vb and asemblers.

So it looks like there should be no probs to use java and earn a bit of money.

Any other suggestions? What about my own license, how can I 'make' one for myself?

 

by: CEHJPosted on 2006-03-18 at 05:43:03ID: 16224231

One thing you need to watch out for is that certain OSS licenced software requires that any code that use it also be open source:

http://eu.conecta.it/paper/Open_source_software_licenc.html

 

by: StillUnAwarePosted on 2006-03-18 at 06:09:14ID: 16224312

OK, now I know that the software I am using is licensed with these licenses:

GNU Lesser General Public License (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html)
SUN PUBLIC LICENSE (http://java.sun.com/spl.html)

It looks like SPL lets me do whatever I want, unless I change the NetBeans or JDK source code and redistribute it, but I'm not going so far.
And what about LGPL?

 

by: CEHJPosted on 2006-03-18 at 06:14:40ID: 16224344

>>And what about LGPL?

AFAIK you need to provide your source

 

by: StillUnAwarePosted on 2006-03-18 at 06:37:06ID: 16224446

It says a lot, and as I'm reading the license for the first time, it confuses me.

It looks like if I don't modify the code, the library can be used within non-free project, but do I have to provide the source code? If I do, then theoretically I will be able to sell a single copy, and the source code becomes public, and everybody will have it.

Sorry for obvious questions, but it doesn't look so obvious untill you know it.

 

by: CEHJPosted on 2006-03-18 at 06:40:28ID: 16224462

>>but do I have to provide the source code?

AFAIK, yours and theirs, yes

 

by: mayankeaglePosted on 2006-03-18 at 06:43:55ID: 16224487

With your license, attach the other included licenses too (with the open-source tools) and make a declaration that you have not modified any of the code in those tools. If you have developed using Netbeans, it should not be a problem because you will not be delivering Netbeans to the client (you're only using it for internal development). Only add the licenses of the tools/ components which you will be delivering along with your application (e.g., Log4J). Your own code is your organization's copy-right and depending upon the SLA (service-level agreement with the client), you'll need to either deliver your code or not - but that depends entirely on the project/ client.

 

by: StillUnAwarePosted on 2006-03-18 at 07:34:07ID: 16224745

Eventually, I'm going to use IzPack (http://www.izforge.com/izpack/) under
Apache License, Version 2.0 (http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html).

It look like that this one does not require to show the source code.

 

by: mayankeaglePosted on 2006-03-18 at 07:37:43ID: 16224774

Yes, that is normally depending upon agreement b/w you and the client (for your code). As long as you are not modifying the code of those open-source tools, you should be ok.

 

by: StillUnAwarePosted on 2006-03-18 at 07:43:49ID: 16224815

OK, thanks for the info, so all I need to do is to write some my own license, which restricts decopilation, redistribution... and include all the licenses of the tools my app depends on.

 

by: CEHJPosted on 2006-03-19 at 03:29:16ID: 16229016

:-)

>>so all I need to do ...

Plus provide your source if you do use a GPL-like OSS licence

 

by: StillUnAwarePosted on 2006-03-19 at 03:33:07ID: 16229029

So this glitch can ruin everything. Then again what is the difference between LGPL and GPL. As I understand, the former one does not require to provide source code at any means?

 

by: CEHJPosted on 2006-03-19 at 03:35:43ID: 16229037

I'll have a brief look if i have time - i'm not sure - although it is 'Lesser'

 

by: CEHJPosted on 2006-03-19 at 04:34:34ID: 16229141

Might confusing. But look at section 5, para 2 (seemingly contradicting para 1) but referring to, and reinforced by, section 6.

Look at section 6 a:

"with the complete machine-readable "work that uses the Library", as object code and/or source code"

The 'and/or' is crucial - it's not 'or'. Therefore, my reading is that you must supply *your* source too

 

by: CEHJPosted on 2006-03-19 at 04:35:13ID: 16229143

Might confusing=Mighty confusing

 

by: mayankeaglePosted on 2006-03-19 at 04:47:45ID: 16229166

It says: "Accompany the work with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code"

Machine-readable would not be the actual source....

 

by: StillUnAwarePosted on 2006-03-19 at 05:55:00ID: 16229317

Hope this is the last bit of it.

"GPL (GNU General Public License). This is the licence under which the software of the GNU project is distributed. However, today we can find a great deal of software unrelated to the GNU project, but nevertheless distributed under GPL (a notable example is the Linux kernel). The GPL was carefully designed to promote the production of more free software, and because of that it explicitly forbids some actions on the software which could lead to the integration of GPLed software in proprietary programs. The GPL is based on the international legislation on copyright10, which ensures its enforceability. The main characteristics of the GPL are the following: it allows binary redistribution, but only if source code availability is also guaranteed; it allows source redistribution (and enforces it in case of binary distribution); it allows modification without restrictions (if the derived work is also covered by GPL); and complete integration with other software is only possible if that other software is also covered by GPL. This is not the case with LGPL (GNU Lesser General Public License), also used in the GNU project, which allows for integration with almost any kind of software, including proprietary software. The GPL is included verbatim in appendix A.4. More details about the reasons and implications of the GPL are available in [23]."

Here is the excerpt of the document (http://eu.conecta.it/paper/Open_source_software_licenc.html), which was directed by CEHJ. Most important part of it this sentence:

"This is not the case with LGPL (GNU Lesser General Public License), also used in the GNU project, which allows for integration with almost any kind of software, including proprietary software."

Does that say I am allowed not to supply the source code? What does proprietary software means in this case?

 

by: mayankeaglePosted on 2006-03-19 at 05:59:27ID: 16229327

Yes, it means software developed by any other company (it could be a generic product or a solution or a project that you make for a specific client).

 

by: CEHJPosted on 2006-03-19 at 06:30:23ID: 16229439

>>Does that say I am allowed not to supply the source code?

I'm inclined to think it does, although don't forget that document from which you quote is not authoratitive

 

by: StillUnAwarePosted on 2006-03-19 at 07:27:38ID: 16229655

Thanks again, although the question is closed, You don't leave me in a dark side, now I know where to follow from here :)

 

by: CEHJPosted on 2006-03-19 at 07:28:50ID: 16229661

No problem

20120131-EE-VQP-002

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