Question

Reverse engineering and Neo-Lite

Asked by: fhtong

I am checking about what reverse engineering can do and have the following questions:

1. Is it true that reverse engineering tools can crack an exe file and discover the source code?
If so, then it seems people need not force Microsoft to release the source of Windows.
2. By checking the previous experts' advice, I found that Neo-Lite was suggested, but checking it always go to mcafee.com instead and there is not such product listed. Did it kill by mcafee?
If so, is there any other tool like Neo-Lite?

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Asked On
2005-09-11 at 02:05:10ID21557386
Topic

Delphi Programming

Participating Experts
3
Points
500
Comments
19

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Answers

 

by: RadikalQ3Posted on 2005-09-11 at 02:23:43ID: 14858582

Hi!

>1. Is it true that reverse engineering tools can crack an exe file and discover the source code?

No, this is false.
This is valid for any interpreted or precompiled languajes like the old Clipper, but with Delphi not.
Tools like Soft-ice and other debuggers, are capable of dissasembly the machine code and shows it as assembly source code: no functions, no variables nothing similar to the high level languaje source code.

>2. By checking the previous experts' advice, I found that Neo-Lite was suggested, but checking it always go to mcafee.com instead and there is not such product listed. Did it kill by mcafee?

I dont know neo-lite but... there are several exe-packers for compress (and crypt) your executable.
For example, UPX: http://upx.sourceforge.net/ (its open source)

A cracker can use your debugger, dissasambling the code loaded in memory, but he cant (or its very difficult) make a loader & crack for your program because he must understand the packer manner of load & decompress the program for to be able to modify.

 

by: CodedKPosted on 2005-09-11 at 03:58:52ID: 14858672

Hi.

1.) Yes you can uncover almost any source code written in Delphi. Other languages too but not so easy.
Radikal there are tools especially for Delphi Decompiling with 90% success, returning the code as you wrote it.

2.) NeoLite is an obsolete tool. There are other updated with today needs, tools.
Tools that can compress and encrypt, embedding antidumping ,antidebug and checksum verification.

The most common tool for this job is Aspack and Asprotect (which is extremely difficult to crack).

Asprotect offers:

# compression of the application
# encryption of the application <---------------
# counteraction to dumping application memory with the tool like ProcDump. <---------------
# application integrity check <---------------
# counteraction to debuggers and disassemblers <---------------
# counteraction to memory patching <---------------
# API for interaction between application and protection routines <---------------

Also offers:
# creation and verification of registration keys using public keys encryption algorithms
# keeping of the database and checkup of "stolen" (illegal) registration keys
# possibility to create evaluation (trial) versions,
   that limit application functions based on evaluation time and the number of runs left
# expose nag-screens
# generating of registration keys, based on the specific computer system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other tools are:

Free:
UPack, Mew, UPX, Packman, exe32pack, EZIP, PE-PaCK, FSG, CExe, PE Diminisher
Among them the best and most common are UPX, Pe-PAck, FSG and lately PackMan.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And commercial packers:
Commercial packers

NSPack 2.3, eXPressor 1.2.0.1, Thinstall 2.526, PECompact 2.5, PEBundle 3.20, AS-Pack, Petite, NeoLite 2.0,
Shrinker 3.4, PKLite32 1.11, WWPack32 1.20

Among them the best are:
PECompact Petite AS-Pack and As-Protect.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Encrypting your code doesnt make you safe !
Old packers like NeoLite (March 29, 1999) can be unpacked within seconds, leaving your source ready for
disassembling or/and decompiling.
Your goal should be never to let the cracker understand what is your packer.

There are allready software that scan exe and dll to find what the name of the packer or the language that
was written. If you dont compress your app a message will appear saying: "Written with Delphi Ver x.x"
This means that your app has no protection against decompiling or disassembling !

Find a packer that there isnt any unpacker available. (For commercial packers there are ready made unpackers !)
Except for AsProtect.

New packers (not commercial) like PackMan (27.II.2005) can not be identified !
So the average cracker cannot find any unpacker.

He has to do all the job which will disourage him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want links you can google for the name. Or ask me.

Hope this helps :)
CodedK.

 

by: fhtongPosted on 2005-09-11 at 04:51:39ID: 14858747

Thanks, CodedK

I found AsProtect but not PackMan. Can you let me know where to get it?

 

by: CodedKPosted on 2005-09-11 at 05:46:44ID: 14858848

 

by: AmigoJackPosted on 2005-09-11 at 06:44:07ID: 14859017

:CodedK

can you name some tools that give me my code back? i.e. i tried dede a while back, and it didnt had success on any of my projects. isnt it an important question also which delphi version has been used?

AND

is recovering only possible for "standard projects", or also for console apps, dlls, and so on?

 

by: CodedKPosted on 2005-09-11 at 06:48:42ID: 14859029

Nop i cannot name such tools.

 

by: CodedKPosted on 2005-09-11 at 06:49:22ID: 14859033

DeDe is obsolete too.

 

by: fhtongPosted on 2005-09-11 at 20:29:44ID: 14861514

CodedK,

Before checking about reverse engineering, I always suppose that programmers, not to say masters, should have the confidence to work everything by themselves and feel shame to copy others' work.
But I found some information like "every big software house has a team of reverse engineering to check competitiors' program" and some groups openly declare the right to crack programs.

Furthermore, I found from a forum:
...I would like to analyse a program that is protected by asprotect....
... I haven't tried it myself but there is a program called "rAD" that may be able to do it: http://protools.reverse-engineering.net/fi...packers/rad.zip
Otherwise, this link may be helpful: http://www.ghu.as.ro/unpacktuts/labba1.htm

Can the rad overcome asprotect? Is the information of labba1.htm really let anyone to decode asprotect?
 

 

by: CodedKPosted on 2005-09-12 at 00:51:13ID: 14862245

NO.
This is a very old tool.
I think that in order to make this work it requires so much work...
...more than manual unpack the application.

There is only one programmer from russia who made a fully automatic tool
that can fully unpack Asprotect. He has a homepage.

 

by: fhtongPosted on 2005-09-12 at 01:36:03ID: 14862388

Does he release his tool to the public or sell it for a price?

 

by: CodedKPosted on 2005-09-12 at 02:51:01ID: 14862712

yes, free.

 

by: fhtongPosted on 2005-09-12 at 03:13:51ID: 14862789

CodedK,

So it means that even the Asprotect cannot protect our program. What else we can do?

Before closing this question, I would like to know:

What is his name or website?

 

by: CodedKPosted on 2005-09-12 at 04:26:28ID: 14863050

Fhtong.
Asprotect is very good. It took years for someone to unpack it. Unlike every other encryption.
There are millions of papers about "How to manually unpack it."
AsProtect author update his app often to avoid unpacking.

As i told you from the beginning Unknown Packers can do the job !
Its a matter of time, for PE Sniffers to add the signature of the "Unknown file" to their sniffer tools.
From that point the only think that remains is How difficult is the unknown, free packer to unpack.

AsProtect has been on the scene for years and i can name many shareware programs that
are packed with AsProtrect.

I posted a question in support to tell me if it is appropriate
to tell you the name of the unpacker. If it is ok, then i'll post a link to download this app.

IMO your initial question has been answered and if you re still looking for NeoLite
i uploaded the latest version in my page.

(Waiting for admin input)

Hope this is ok...
CodedK.

 

by: fhtongPosted on 2005-09-12 at 04:43:07ID: 14863120

Thanks, CodedK.
Your advice is great for me. As you mentioned, it is always some able person doing bad things (or some would name it good).
From what I have found, I shall hope that there will be a legal way to protect IT against this type of behavior.
I shall wait awhile to see if it is OK for you to tell the unpacker. Even if it will not be, I do appreciate your help.

fhtong

 

by: fhtongPosted on 2005-09-12 at 17:55:22ID: 14868550

Thanks, modulo & CodedK

 

by: CodedKPosted on 2005-09-13 at 04:37:15ID: 14870660

Thanks for the points Fhtong and the grade.
I'm sorry you didnt get a complete answer.

 

by: fhtongPosted on 2005-09-13 at 05:27:31ID: 14870891

CodedK,

As you said, my question was solved and I did not expect to get so much. May be I have another question about this later.

 

by: CodedKPosted on 2005-09-13 at 05:32:22ID: 14870917

Ok :)

20120131-EE-VQP-002

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