rsuess1
asked on
Inability to hear the audio portion of a video presentation
I have a Windows 98SE operating system. About 3-4 weeks ago I began to have problems with my audio system with loss of sound but only under certain circumstances which I’ll describe. I use a headset with headphones and a microphone. I can furnish other facts that I found in trying to remedy my problems if these are needed.
1. I had downloaded RealPlayer 10 and tried to play .mp3 files but they would not play with that program giving me a message saying:
“another program might be using the audio devices”
but the Windows Media Player 9 was able to play them. I did uninstall RealPlayer with no correction of any of my audio problems described below
2. My microphone and headphones are properly and securely plugged in and I am ordinarily able to hear my breathing in the headphones except as will be described.
However when I open the Windows Sound Recorder and click on File>New to start a new recording session, those control buttons on the Windows Sound Recorder box for Start, Stop, Record, etc. are dulled and non-functional. So I am unable to make a sound recording even though I am able to hear my breathing in the headphones. I will say that I believe I have the correct settings for the various Volume controls. The Properties box for the Volume control shows the TBS Montego II Mixer as the Mixer device.
If I specifically try to play a .wav file by opening it in the Sound Recorder, its sound pattern was displayed in the Sound Recorder but only the end button was activated but none of the other controls were active and it couldn’t be heard.
3. I am now unable to hear the audio portion of the msn.com video newsclips on either Firefox or Internet Explorer 6. It is the Multimedia Flash Player that is responsible for playing these videos but I did uninstall and reinstall the latest version that I could without regaining my audio. However, at the same time I can play videos of .wmv, .asf, and .mov files with both the audio and animation in the Windows Media Player 9.
4. There is an interactive conferencing system (Centra 7) used by an educational website I watch that allows use of a headset for interaction. This functioned properly up until the time I started having the audio problems 3 weeks ago. This Centra 7 system allows for a checkup of my system prior to a conference and the browser and network passes but it fails the audio checkup with the message:
“A hardware error occurred, or the microphone is in use by another application.”
During that test but prior to that message I can hear my breathing in my headphones but just at the time that message is displayed the sound of my breathing cuts off. If I then check the Volume control box, it can be seen that the Microphone has been deselected.
5. I have checked through the System Properties box and found that no yellow question or exclamation marks were listed for:
TBS Montego II Multifunction PCI Platform
Altec Lansing Multimedia USB Speakers – ACS 495
TBS Montego II Gameport Interface
TBS Montego II MPU-401 Interface
TBS Montego II PCI Audio
Sound Blaster Pro Emulation
and
I’ll just mention here again, though, that in the Properties box of the Volume control is the TBS Montego II Mixer
6. The Sounds Properties box will not allow me to preview (hear) any .wav files and gives me the message:
“Windows cannot play the C:\WINDOWS\media\ding.wav (or any of the other .wav files there). It may be damaged or may not be a valid sound file. Replace the file and try again.”
However, I can play those same .wav files that won’t play in the Sounds Properties box in the Windows Media Player 9 with no problem hearing them.
7. Thinking that the Windows Media Player 9 on my system which seemed to be functioning properly might be preempting my audio by interfering with the Multimedia Flash Player, I changed the Windows Media Player to not connect to the Internet and I removed it from acting as the default for all the files in its File Types listing but still could not hear the audio of the msn.com video newsclips or hear the audio side of the video conferencing system.
Since I believe in the advice that “if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it”, I did not uninstall the Windows Media Player for 3 reasons:
a) I am not sure that this would remedy all my problems and would prefer this advice to come from an expert.
b) If the Windows Media Player 9 is the cause of the audio and sound recording problems, why should they have started to cause difficulty only in the last 3 weeks since I have been using it for months with no difficulty?
c) If the Windows Media Player is the cause of the problem what program or programs would be the best substitute for it?
Thank you.
1. I had downloaded RealPlayer 10 and tried to play .mp3 files but they would not play with that program giving me a message saying:
“another program might be using the audio devices”
but the Windows Media Player 9 was able to play them. I did uninstall RealPlayer with no correction of any of my audio problems described below
2. My microphone and headphones are properly and securely plugged in and I am ordinarily able to hear my breathing in the headphones except as will be described.
However when I open the Windows Sound Recorder and click on File>New to start a new recording session, those control buttons on the Windows Sound Recorder box for Start, Stop, Record, etc. are dulled and non-functional. So I am unable to make a sound recording even though I am able to hear my breathing in the headphones. I will say that I believe I have the correct settings for the various Volume controls. The Properties box for the Volume control shows the TBS Montego II Mixer as the Mixer device.
If I specifically try to play a .wav file by opening it in the Sound Recorder, its sound pattern was displayed in the Sound Recorder but only the end button was activated but none of the other controls were active and it couldn’t be heard.
3. I am now unable to hear the audio portion of the msn.com video newsclips on either Firefox or Internet Explorer 6. It is the Multimedia Flash Player that is responsible for playing these videos but I did uninstall and reinstall the latest version that I could without regaining my audio. However, at the same time I can play videos of .wmv, .asf, and .mov files with both the audio and animation in the Windows Media Player 9.
4. There is an interactive conferencing system (Centra 7) used by an educational website I watch that allows use of a headset for interaction. This functioned properly up until the time I started having the audio problems 3 weeks ago. This Centra 7 system allows for a checkup of my system prior to a conference and the browser and network passes but it fails the audio checkup with the message:
“A hardware error occurred, or the microphone is in use by another application.”
During that test but prior to that message I can hear my breathing in my headphones but just at the time that message is displayed the sound of my breathing cuts off. If I then check the Volume control box, it can be seen that the Microphone has been deselected.
5. I have checked through the System Properties box and found that no yellow question or exclamation marks were listed for:
TBS Montego II Multifunction PCI Platform
Altec Lansing Multimedia USB Speakers – ACS 495
TBS Montego II Gameport Interface
TBS Montego II MPU-401 Interface
TBS Montego II PCI Audio
Sound Blaster Pro Emulation
and
I’ll just mention here again, though, that in the Properties box of the Volume control is the TBS Montego II Mixer
6. The Sounds Properties box will not allow me to preview (hear) any .wav files and gives me the message:
“Windows cannot play the C:\WINDOWS\media\ding.wav (or any of the other .wav files there). It may be damaged or may not be a valid sound file. Replace the file and try again.”
However, I can play those same .wav files that won’t play in the Sounds Properties box in the Windows Media Player 9 with no problem hearing them.
7. Thinking that the Windows Media Player 9 on my system which seemed to be functioning properly might be preempting my audio by interfering with the Multimedia Flash Player, I changed the Windows Media Player to not connect to the Internet and I removed it from acting as the default for all the files in its File Types listing but still could not hear the audio of the msn.com video newsclips or hear the audio side of the video conferencing system.
Since I believe in the advice that “if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it”, I did not uninstall the Windows Media Player for 3 reasons:
a) I am not sure that this would remedy all my problems and would prefer this advice to come from an expert.
b) If the Windows Media Player 9 is the cause of the audio and sound recording problems, why should they have started to cause difficulty only in the last 3 weeks since I have been using it for months with no difficulty?
c) If the Windows Media Player is the cause of the problem what program or programs would be the best substitute for it?
Thank you.
SOLUTION
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ASKER
I'm sorry I didn't get back sooner but some business came up.
Hereafter I will address a separate post to each person individually thinking that things will probably seem clearer unless someone objects.
To BillDL
I had already checked the sound in DxDiag but forgot to state that part of my information. I have version 9.0c. and all the sounds could be clearly heard in the Tests at the Sound and Music tabs.
Hereafter I will address a separate post to each person individually thinking that things will probably seem clearer unless someone objects.
To BillDL
I had already checked the sound in DxDiag but forgot to state that part of my information. I have version 9.0c. and all the sounds could be clearly heard in the Tests at the Sound and Music tabs.
Thanks for the feedback rsuess1. I was half hoping that the problems may have been attributable to one of the more unstable DirectX versions in Win98 eg. 9b. At least we have eliminated this possibility at an early stage.
ASKER
To Zee
I have no objection to uninstalling the sound card but suffer, at this point in time, from a lack of confidence due to insufficient knowledge. So, if you don't mind, please let me try to gain that knowledge by having you answer some specific questions. I hope I don't annoy you by being as precise as I can be to be sure I am not misunderstanding anything. I realize that this may lead to a lot of repetition.
I have 3 listings in the Add/Remove Properties box for items related to sound:
ACS495 - for the speaker system
TBS Montego II - this is a listing by itself
TBS Montego II Application
Question 1: What is the difference in what would be uninstalled in the above process (the Add/Remove uninstallation) and what would be removed in the TBS Montego II sets of listings below by clicking on the Remove button?
In the System Properties box under the Device Manager tab, there are 2 types of listings:
At the Multifunction listing is:
TBS Montego II Multifunction PCI Platform
At the Sound, video, game controller listing is:
Altec Lansing Multimedia - ACS 495
TBS Montego II Gameport Interface
TBS Montego II MPU-401 Interface
TBS Montego II PCI Audio
TBS Montego II Sound Blaster Pro Emulation
Question 2: When I check the Properties boxes of each of those listings it states that "the device is working properly" so why should there be any audio problems such as I am having?
Question 3: Am I correct that you are advising that I "delete" all entries (those listed above) found in the Start>Settings>
Control Panel>click on the System icon to show the System Properties box and click on the Devices Manager tab where the above listings are found?
Question 4: I don't see any "delete" button but do see a Remove button. Are you advising to highlight each one of those items, one at a time, and clicking on the Remove button?
Question 5: The thought crosses my mind that the Windows Media Player rather than a defective sound card function (or drivers) is producing some kind of conflict that causes the loss of audio. Is this not very likely?
Thank you.
Bob
I have no objection to uninstalling the sound card but suffer, at this point in time, from a lack of confidence due to insufficient knowledge. So, if you don't mind, please let me try to gain that knowledge by having you answer some specific questions. I hope I don't annoy you by being as precise as I can be to be sure I am not misunderstanding anything. I realize that this may lead to a lot of repetition.
I have 3 listings in the Add/Remove Properties box for items related to sound:
ACS495 - for the speaker system
TBS Montego II - this is a listing by itself
TBS Montego II Application
Question 1: What is the difference in what would be uninstalled in the above process (the Add/Remove uninstallation) and what would be removed in the TBS Montego II sets of listings below by clicking on the Remove button?
In the System Properties box under the Device Manager tab, there are 2 types of listings:
At the Multifunction listing is:
TBS Montego II Multifunction PCI Platform
At the Sound, video, game controller listing is:
Altec Lansing Multimedia - ACS 495
TBS Montego II Gameport Interface
TBS Montego II MPU-401 Interface
TBS Montego II PCI Audio
TBS Montego II Sound Blaster Pro Emulation
Question 2: When I check the Properties boxes of each of those listings it states that "the device is working properly" so why should there be any audio problems such as I am having?
Question 3: Am I correct that you are advising that I "delete" all entries (those listed above) found in the Start>Settings>
Control Panel>click on the System icon to show the System Properties box and click on the Devices Manager tab where the above listings are found?
Question 4: I don't see any "delete" button but do see a Remove button. Are you advising to highlight each one of those items, one at a time, and clicking on the Remove button?
Question 5: The thought crosses my mind that the Windows Media Player rather than a defective sound card function (or drivers) is producing some kind of conflict that causes the loss of audio. Is this not very likely?
Thank you.
Bob
Bob,
I will take some time responding to your questions above. But following your feelings, you may try uninstalling and reinstalling WMP9.
This is somewhat troublesome, but should be done exactly like this:
Step 1: Download Windows Media Player 9 Series (WMP9) files and 828026 update
==========================
1. Go to the URL below to download WMP9 and the 828026 update:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/b/c/1bc0b1a3-c839-4b36-8f3c-19847ba09299/MPSetup.exe
http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/v3-19990518/cabpool/WindowsMedia-KB828026-x86-ENU_9de85456165d78c0ec3783dfbe08298.exe
2. Please don't install it. We will install it later.
Step 2: Uninstall Windows Media Player 9 in your system
==========================
1. Click Start -> Run. Type the following "command" in the Open field and Click OK.
rundll32.exe setupapi,InstallHinfSectio
There are spaces between "rundll32.exe", "setupapi,InstallHinfSecti
2. Restart the computer into Safe Mode using the steps below:
a. Click Start, click Run, and then in the Open box, type "MSCONFIG" (without the quotation marks). Click OK.
b. Click the Advance button. Check the "Enable Startup menu" item. Click Ok.
c. Reboot the computer. When the startup menu appears, choose Safe Mode and press Enter.
Note: If you don't want to see the startup menu later, you can repeat the above steps and uncheck the "Enable Startup menu" item in the #2.
Step 3: Install WMP9 and the 828026 update in Safe Mode
==========================
1. Enter into Safe Mode and locate to the downloaded WMP9 file to reinstall Windows Media Player 9.
2. After you finished install Windows Media Player 9, please install the 828026 update in Safe Mode.
3. Restart your system into Normal Mode and check to see whether or not the 828026 file still re-offers.
Courtesy of Rick K (aka PudgyOne).
The above being a quote, I didn't edit it but you can start in Safe Mode by tapping F8 at startup.
This will lead you to the Start Menu where you will then select Safe Mode.
This is easier than the procedure described by Rick K.
I will wait for your comments before posting again.
Maybe this does it!
Zee
ASKER
To Zee
You are describing some processes that I have not used before so please tell me if you are willing to allow additional questions as we proceed. If you just consider it a needless distraction from the objective which is, after all, to recover my audio, please tell me.
I have always found anything involving computers very interesting so even though I'm suffering from a lack of full audio capabilities, the additional information I can gain from learning about something else is worth it to me. So, again, if you don't want me to do that, please tell me and I'll weed out my "extra" question.
Bob
You are describing some processes that I have not used before so please tell me if you are willing to allow additional questions as we proceed. If you just consider it a needless distraction from the objective which is, after all, to recover my audio, please tell me.
I have always found anything involving computers very interesting so even though I'm suffering from a lack of full audio capabilities, the additional information I can gain from learning about something else is worth it to me. So, again, if you don't want me to do that, please tell me and I'll weed out my "extra" question.
Bob
ASKER
To Zee
"extra" questions.
Bob
"extra" questions.
Bob
No, I think you should uninstall and reinstall WMP9.
After all, you are using that PC, we should trust your experience with it.
The worst it can happen is you being back at the starting point after reinstalling.
And the best: your problem may be solved.
Good luck.
Zee
ASKER
To Zee
I'm not sure that you actually read the post I was sending if you only read the very last one since that was not the complete post. That last one of mine, actually, only made a correction to the message above it and it is that one that I was asking about procedure in Experts Exchange. If you don't want any other questions I can proceed to that uninstallation but, just to be sure, just tell me you read it and don't want to answer any other questions because I understand the procedure you've listed and can proceed to do it..
I'm not sure that you actually read the post I was sending if you only read the very last one since that was not the complete post. That last one of mine, actually, only made a correction to the message above it and it is that one that I was asking about procedure in Experts Exchange. If you don't want any other questions I can proceed to that uninstallation but, just to be sure, just tell me you read it and don't want to answer any other questions because I understand the procedure you've listed and can proceed to do it..
ASKER
To Zee
I'm sorry to report that my problem isn't solved yet.
I followed your instructions for uninstalling WMP 9 and listed where I altered your procedure or got some results not expected from your description.
1) I first downloaded the recommended files - MPSetup.exe and WindowsMedia-KB828026-x86-
2) I next ran the listing beginning rundll32.exe...and ending with \wmp.inf but this did not remove the Quick Launch icon for WMP9 or remove the entry in the Start>Programs>Windows Media Player menu listing.
3) At this point in time I did not yet set up the Safe Mode rebooting mode but, instead, because I wanted to see whether simply uninstalling WMP9 would allow the msn.com video newsclip to play sound (it still didn't) I tried to open WMP9 by clicking on its Quick Launch icon to see whether it had been uninstaslled or not and I got a message telling me that something was wrong with it, I believe, since it was "uninstalled" and I would need to reinstall it. I then rebooted into regular Windows (still without going into Safe mode) and, at that point in time, hard drive activity that began as part of the boot up process just continued without stopping (and wouldn't stop the entire time I had the computer on until I next rebooted.)
4) I then followed your process for starting in Safe mode with the msconfig setting and, on rebooting it did allow me to select Safe mode.
5) When in Safe mode I double clicked on that MPSetup.exe file and it installed what looked like a normal WMP9 and I made more or less the default configuration settings including the assignment of the various sound and movie files to WMP9.
6) I next double clicked on the file that you designated as number 828026 to but then got the message that the update was not applicable to my system.
7) However, I was disappointed that I was still not able to hear the audio of those msn.com video newsciips or the video conferencing system.
That's it, so far.
Bob
I'm sorry to report that my problem isn't solved yet.
I followed your instructions for uninstalling WMP 9 and listed where I altered your procedure or got some results not expected from your description.
1) I first downloaded the recommended files - MPSetup.exe and WindowsMedia-KB828026-x86-
2) I next ran the listing beginning rundll32.exe...and ending with \wmp.inf but this did not remove the Quick Launch icon for WMP9 or remove the entry in the Start>Programs>Windows Media Player menu listing.
3) At this point in time I did not yet set up the Safe Mode rebooting mode but, instead, because I wanted to see whether simply uninstalling WMP9 would allow the msn.com video newsclip to play sound (it still didn't) I tried to open WMP9 by clicking on its Quick Launch icon to see whether it had been uninstaslled or not and I got a message telling me that something was wrong with it, I believe, since it was "uninstalled" and I would need to reinstall it. I then rebooted into regular Windows (still without going into Safe mode) and, at that point in time, hard drive activity that began as part of the boot up process just continued without stopping (and wouldn't stop the entire time I had the computer on until I next rebooted.)
4) I then followed your process for starting in Safe mode with the msconfig setting and, on rebooting it did allow me to select Safe mode.
5) When in Safe mode I double clicked on that MPSetup.exe file and it installed what looked like a normal WMP9 and I made more or less the default configuration settings including the assignment of the various sound and movie files to WMP9.
6) I next double clicked on the file that you designated as number 828026 to but then got the message that the update was not applicable to my system.
7) However, I was disappointed that I was still not able to hear the audio of those msn.com video newsciips or the video conferencing system.
That's it, so far.
Bob
Bob,
Visit Windows Update and install all updates available:
http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/default.asp
Always reboot when asked.
Then, download and install this Codec package for WMP:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/format/codecdownload.aspx
Zee
ASKER
To Zee
Two quick questions:
1) Am I correct that all I need to do is double click on the Codec .exe file?
2) Do I have to be in Safe mode?
Bob
Two quick questions:
1) Am I correct that all I need to do is double click on the Codec .exe file?
2) Do I have to be in Safe mode?
Bob
Bob,
No need for Safe Mode, just run the installer (.exe file).
Did you visit Windows Update too?
Zee
ASKER
To Zee
I did install the Windows Media Player 9 Security update which was the only one listed as available for my computer. I also installed the Codec and then I rechecked my audio problems regarding the lack of audio with an attempt to play the msn.com video newsclips and an attempt to playback a video conferencing session - but no sound was able to be heard.
Two questions:
1) Why did we reinstall WMP9 when that was a possible cause for the malfunctions that I am having (or did I misunderstand)?
2) How does this method of uninstalling the program that you described above (which I used) compare with using the Add/Remove Program Properties box to uninstall WMP9?
Bob
I did install the Windows Media Player 9 Security update which was the only one listed as available for my computer. I also installed the Codec and then I rechecked my audio problems regarding the lack of audio with an attempt to play the msn.com video newsclips and an attempt to playback a video conferencing session - but no sound was able to be heard.
Two questions:
1) Why did we reinstall WMP9 when that was a possible cause for the malfunctions that I am having (or did I misunderstand)?
2) How does this method of uninstalling the program that you described above (which I used) compare with using the Add/Remove Program Properties box to uninstall WMP9?
Bob
1) Unintalling/reinstalling WMP9 was just following your thoughts.
2) WMP9 uninstall is not available from Add/Remove Programs.
3) I still believe in my first comment where I suggest uninstall sound card, etc., etc.
I'll let you decide what to do next.
Cheers,
Zee
blue_zee and rsuess1.
Just to let you know that I installed WMP 7.1 and later uninstalled WMP 7.1 to install WMP9 on another Win98se computer. Both were was listed in the Add/Remove programs list and uninstalled properly, although how completely it removed all the files and settings I can't be certain.
Add/Remove Programs listings:
Version 7.1 - "Windows Media Player 7.1"
Version 9 - "Windows media Player system update (9 series)".
Notably, installing either upgrade version doesn't remove the old WMP 6.4 which still remains in the folder "C:\Program Files\Windows Media Player" as "mplayer2.exe" and functions as expected when double-clicked. What it DOES do is transfer the file associations for media file types from "mplayer2.exe" to the updated "wmplayer.exe". Uninstalling WMP 7.1 or 9 leaves the old version in place and just rolls back all the registry settings, like the file associations, and any other configuration files that reference WMP.
I don't know if the Add/Remove programs listing will be shown for an installation done through online Windows Update.
I would still uninstall the sound card drivers from the Add/Remove Programs listing, and then reboot to Safe Mode to remove the listing for the card in Device Manager if it remained. I would then power down, physically remove the card from the slot, and reboot to full Windows in an effort to force windows to rebuild its hardware database without the card. Power off, reseat the card, and then power on again and allow it to be detected. Allow it to search for drivers, and direct it to a CD or folder containing the driver files if required. Reboot once again.
There are a few other things you might like to consider IF that doesn't resolve the issue.
You can make WMP 6.4 (as installed by Win98) appear as an "optional component" for uninstallation in Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup using the utility "98Lite". WMP 6.4 is an integral component of any Win98 installation, and you otherwise have no control over whether it is installed or not:
http://www.litepc.com/98lite.html
For 98lite to work, you have to have a copy of the "Win98" folder from the Windows CD copied onto your hard drive. When you install 98lite, it asks for the location of this folder (eg. C:\win98), and it then unpacks about 8 files of its own into that same folder. When you then run 98lite.exe, it gives you the option to "Take Control of Windows", and then generates new registry settings to make new check-boxes appear in Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup, and makes new .INF files in the folder c:\windows\inf that allow these new "optional components" to be fully uninstalled.
I always use 98lite on fresh Win98se installations to remove the default version 6 DirectX (and some other old components) so that I can immediately install DirectX 8.1 (and newer versions of the other components I removed) without all the backup files cluttering my system. I have only installed DirectX 9c on a few Windows 98 computers and, as I said earlier, I rarely install WMP9 unless someone REALLY begs for it.
I have just removed WMP 6.4 using 98lite, rebooted, and then installed WMP9 on a spare Win98se PC. The removal of 6.4 seems to get rid of all related files and folders, and WMP9 works fine when installed. The only thing that seems to be missing is the ability to apply the "classic" wmp 6.4 "skin" to it for the standard appearance. I can only assume that this is one of the reasons that "mplayer2.exe" is retained during a WMP upgrade.
This might be a good way to get rid of any bad settings or bad files relating to WMP on your system, but if you ever wanted to restore version 6.4 you would have to uninstall version 9 and then either reinstall Win98 over itself OR (easier option) install it from the download.
http://download.microsoft.com/download/winmediaplayer/Update/6.4/W9XNT4/EN-US/mpfull.exe
So far we haven't really addressed the problem of your "Sound Recorder" buttons being greyed out and unavailable. I suspect that the buttons are unavailable because your Sound card drivers and settings are not properly configured, but there is also the possibility that you have corrupt or missing files that are directly accessed by Sound Recorder.
The good news is that Sound Recorder (c:\windows\SNDREC32.EXE) is an "optional component" in Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup > Multimedia. Select the "Multimedia" listing, and then click the "Details" button for the sub-list. I suggest that you UNtick the "Sound Recorder" box, Apply the change, and reboot. Insert the Win98 installation CD (hold down the shift key to stop it autorunning) and TICK the Sound Recorder box to reinstall it. At least this way you should have replaced any corrupt files and eliminated this from consideration if it wasn't a factor in your problem.
There are some other settings you should look at concerning the "not a valid wav file" error you get when trying to play back .WAV files in Sound Recorder:
Control Panel > Multimedia > "Audio" tab.
Does it show your named audio card under both recording and playback?
If not, use the drop-down field and see if the item is listed.
Control Panel > Multimedia > "Devices" tab.
Media Control Devices > "Wave Audio Device (Media Control)" > Properties.
Is this device listed, and are the properties OK?
Control Panel > Multimedia > "Devices" tab.
Audio Compression Codecs > "Microsoft PCM Converter" > Properties.
Does this show in the device list and do the properties look OK?
How many "Codects" show in your list of "Audio Compression Codecs"?
The "Microsoft PCM Converter" is the one used when recording WAV files in Sound recorder. If you open Sound Recorder, and use the "File > New" and then "File > Properties" menu options, you will see a "Format Conversion" section with a drop-down box for All Formats, Playback, and Recording. The default setting, if you select each in turn and click the "Convert Now" button, should be:
Name = ADI
Format = PCM
Attributes = not sure, I have probably altered mine.
The attributes are set on mine as 22,050 Hertz 16-bit Stereo 86 KB/s.
This determines the quality of the recording. The higher the "Hz" numvber, and the greater the "bits" number, the better the recording and larger the file.
The current "ADI" selection could be changed to CD Quality, radio Quality, or Telephone Quality if you wished, and the Format could be changed to any of the other compatible codecs installed. You would then have the option to set the attributes and save this "scheme" by name so that it is available instantly again for any new voice recording.
Check these things out. The explanation above will take longer than it will for you to actually do the checking, but I've detailed it fully in case it is an area you haven't looked before.
Regards
Bill
Just to let you know that I installed WMP 7.1 and later uninstalled WMP 7.1 to install WMP9 on another Win98se computer. Both were was listed in the Add/Remove programs list and uninstalled properly, although how completely it removed all the files and settings I can't be certain.
Add/Remove Programs listings:
Version 7.1 - "Windows Media Player 7.1"
Version 9 - "Windows media Player system update (9 series)".
Notably, installing either upgrade version doesn't remove the old WMP 6.4 which still remains in the folder "C:\Program Files\Windows Media Player" as "mplayer2.exe" and functions as expected when double-clicked. What it DOES do is transfer the file associations for media file types from "mplayer2.exe" to the updated "wmplayer.exe". Uninstalling WMP 7.1 or 9 leaves the old version in place and just rolls back all the registry settings, like the file associations, and any other configuration files that reference WMP.
I don't know if the Add/Remove programs listing will be shown for an installation done through online Windows Update.
I would still uninstall the sound card drivers from the Add/Remove Programs listing, and then reboot to Safe Mode to remove the listing for the card in Device Manager if it remained. I would then power down, physically remove the card from the slot, and reboot to full Windows in an effort to force windows to rebuild its hardware database without the card. Power off, reseat the card, and then power on again and allow it to be detected. Allow it to search for drivers, and direct it to a CD or folder containing the driver files if required. Reboot once again.
There are a few other things you might like to consider IF that doesn't resolve the issue.
You can make WMP 6.4 (as installed by Win98) appear as an "optional component" for uninstallation in Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup using the utility "98Lite". WMP 6.4 is an integral component of any Win98 installation, and you otherwise have no control over whether it is installed or not:
http://www.litepc.com/98lite.html
For 98lite to work, you have to have a copy of the "Win98" folder from the Windows CD copied onto your hard drive. When you install 98lite, it asks for the location of this folder (eg. C:\win98), and it then unpacks about 8 files of its own into that same folder. When you then run 98lite.exe, it gives you the option to "Take Control of Windows", and then generates new registry settings to make new check-boxes appear in Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup, and makes new .INF files in the folder c:\windows\inf that allow these new "optional components" to be fully uninstalled.
I always use 98lite on fresh Win98se installations to remove the default version 6 DirectX (and some other old components) so that I can immediately install DirectX 8.1 (and newer versions of the other components I removed) without all the backup files cluttering my system. I have only installed DirectX 9c on a few Windows 98 computers and, as I said earlier, I rarely install WMP9 unless someone REALLY begs for it.
I have just removed WMP 6.4 using 98lite, rebooted, and then installed WMP9 on a spare Win98se PC. The removal of 6.4 seems to get rid of all related files and folders, and WMP9 works fine when installed. The only thing that seems to be missing is the ability to apply the "classic" wmp 6.4 "skin" to it for the standard appearance. I can only assume that this is one of the reasons that "mplayer2.exe" is retained during a WMP upgrade.
This might be a good way to get rid of any bad settings or bad files relating to WMP on your system, but if you ever wanted to restore version 6.4 you would have to uninstall version 9 and then either reinstall Win98 over itself OR (easier option) install it from the download.
http://download.microsoft.com/download/winmediaplayer/Update/6.4/W9XNT4/EN-US/mpfull.exe
So far we haven't really addressed the problem of your "Sound Recorder" buttons being greyed out and unavailable. I suspect that the buttons are unavailable because your Sound card drivers and settings are not properly configured, but there is also the possibility that you have corrupt or missing files that are directly accessed by Sound Recorder.
The good news is that Sound Recorder (c:\windows\SNDREC32.EXE) is an "optional component" in Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup > Multimedia. Select the "Multimedia" listing, and then click the "Details" button for the sub-list. I suggest that you UNtick the "Sound Recorder" box, Apply the change, and reboot. Insert the Win98 installation CD (hold down the shift key to stop it autorunning) and TICK the Sound Recorder box to reinstall it. At least this way you should have replaced any corrupt files and eliminated this from consideration if it wasn't a factor in your problem.
There are some other settings you should look at concerning the "not a valid wav file" error you get when trying to play back .WAV files in Sound Recorder:
Control Panel > Multimedia > "Audio" tab.
Does it show your named audio card under both recording and playback?
If not, use the drop-down field and see if the item is listed.
Control Panel > Multimedia > "Devices" tab.
Media Control Devices > "Wave Audio Device (Media Control)" > Properties.
Is this device listed, and are the properties OK?
Control Panel > Multimedia > "Devices" tab.
Audio Compression Codecs > "Microsoft PCM Converter" > Properties.
Does this show in the device list and do the properties look OK?
How many "Codects" show in your list of "Audio Compression Codecs"?
The "Microsoft PCM Converter" is the one used when recording WAV files in Sound recorder. If you open Sound Recorder, and use the "File > New" and then "File > Properties" menu options, you will see a "Format Conversion" section with a drop-down box for All Formats, Playback, and Recording. The default setting, if you select each in turn and click the "Convert Now" button, should be:
Name = ADI
Format = PCM
Attributes = not sure, I have probably altered mine.
The attributes are set on mine as 22,050 Hertz 16-bit Stereo 86 KB/s.
This determines the quality of the recording. The higher the "Hz" numvber, and the greater the "bits" number, the better the recording and larger the file.
The current "ADI" selection could be changed to CD Quality, radio Quality, or Telephone Quality if you wished, and the Format could be changed to any of the other compatible codecs installed. You would then have the option to set the attributes and save this "scheme" by name so that it is available instantly again for any new voice recording.
Check these things out. The explanation above will take longer than it will for you to actually do the checking, but I've detailed it fully in case it is an area you haven't looked before.
Regards
Bill
There is also one more thing to consider. You said earlier that your "Volume Control" shows its properties as "TBS Montego II Mixer".
Do you mean that the Volume Control is accessible using the standard yellow speaker icon in the System Tray and launches what you are used to seeing as the standard Windows Volume Control, and that the "Options > Properties" menu shows "TBS Montego II Mixer" in the drop-down field?
Are there any other entries listed in the drop-down field?
The reason i ask this is that some sound cards replace the icon for the volume control in the task bar with their own "mixer" (either a .dll file or an .exe one), and the standard yellow speaker one doesn't show. For instance, I have a SoundMax audio chip on this computer, and it adds a new Control Panel applet that aloows you to configure settings, including the microphone. It also adds a registry startup entry to load its own quick access icon to the system tray.
Some other sound card drivers, however, (eg. C-Media) REPLACE the volume control with their own Mixer, and you have to tick the "Show volume control on taskbar" box near the bottom of the Control Panel > Multimedia dialog to also show the standard Windows Volume Control system tray icon.
In general, the mute boxes and sliders of the soundcard driver's own mixer should directly manipulate those in the Windows Volume Control, but I have found very rare instances of badly written drivers where they weren't tied together, and both mixers worked independently.
Something like that MIGHT be the cause of an error message telling you that the Microphone is in use by another program, and you then find its level slider in the Volume Control to be muted.
Worth checking this out.
Do you mean that the Volume Control is accessible using the standard yellow speaker icon in the System Tray and launches what you are used to seeing as the standard Windows Volume Control, and that the "Options > Properties" menu shows "TBS Montego II Mixer" in the drop-down field?
Are there any other entries listed in the drop-down field?
The reason i ask this is that some sound cards replace the icon for the volume control in the task bar with their own "mixer" (either a .dll file or an .exe one), and the standard yellow speaker one doesn't show. For instance, I have a SoundMax audio chip on this computer, and it adds a new Control Panel applet that aloows you to configure settings, including the microphone. It also adds a registry startup entry to load its own quick access icon to the system tray.
Some other sound card drivers, however, (eg. C-Media) REPLACE the volume control with their own Mixer, and you have to tick the "Show volume control on taskbar" box near the bottom of the Control Panel > Multimedia dialog to also show the standard Windows Volume Control system tray icon.
In general, the mute boxes and sliders of the soundcard driver's own mixer should directly manipulate those in the Windows Volume Control, but I have found very rare instances of badly written drivers where they weren't tied together, and both mixers worked independently.
Something like that MIGHT be the cause of an error message telling you that the Microphone is in use by another program, and you then find its level slider in the Volume Control to be muted.
Worth checking this out.
Bill,
Thanks for the comments on the Add/Remove issue.
Funny I can't find any option to remove WMP (any version) in my 9x/Me systems. Coincidence or not, they were updated through Windows Update.
And I do recall several questions on how to uninstall WMP, exactly because people can't find that option in Add/Remove Programs.
But, removing sound card, drivers anbd software and then reinstalling one at a time is the path he must follow.
Zee
ASKER
Hi,
Please have patience for me to get back. There is a lot to chew on from Bill's last 2 posts and it takes a while to compose it but I'll be back.
I am not arguing about removing the sound card and restoring drivers. I just want to be clear about the process. No comments are needed at this point.
Thank you.
Bob
Please have patience for me to get back. There is a lot to chew on from Bill's last 2 posts and it takes a while to compose it but I'll be back.
I am not arguing about removing the sound card and restoring drivers. I just want to be clear about the process. No comments are needed at this point.
Thank you.
Bob
ASKER
To Bill,
I’ve listed your comments in quotes and followed with my response to your statements:
“I don't know if the Add/Remove programs listing will be shown for an installation done through online Windows Update.”
I don’t know if I’m misunderstanding you but since I just updated WMP9 on my computer by the method listed by Zee, the listing in my Add/Remove Program Properties box is now: Windows media Player system update [9 series]
Here you list your procedure for reinstalling my sound card:
“I would still uninstall the sound card drivers from the Add/Remove Programs listing, and then reboot to Safe Mode to remove the listing for the card in Device Manager if it remained. I would then power down, physically remove the card from the slot, and reboot to full Windows in an effort to force windows to rebuild its hardware database without the card. Power off, reseat the card, and then power on again and allow it to be detected. Allow it to search for drivers, and direct it to a CD or folder containing the driver files if required. Reboot once again.”
I would greatly appreciate several questions answered about this entire process – please do not take these questions to mean that I'm disputing the advice to uninstall my sound card I'm certainly not.. It’s just that I need these questions answered so that I can understand what is going on. Please answer the specific question I have asked.
:
Question 1:
What is the difference between the two processes involved in removing my TBS Montego II card from the computer:
A. Specifically, what is uninstalled by the Add/Remove Program Properties box of its listings:
TBS Montego II and
TBS Montego II TBS Montego II Application
and
B. Specifically, what is actually "removed" by clicking on the Remove button in the System Properties box under the Device Manager by highlighting the listings shown below:
At the Multifunction listing is:
TBS Montego II Multifunction PCI Platform
At the Sound, video, game controller listing is:
Altec Lansing Multimedia - ACS 495
TBS Montego II Gameport Interface
TBS Montego II MPU-401 Interface
TBS Montego II PCI Audio
TBS Montego II Sound Blaster Pro Emulation
Question 2: When I check the Properties boxes of each of those listings it states that "the device is working properly" so why should there be any audio problems such as I am having?
Question 3:
The instruction of “physically” removing the sound card from its slot needs some discussion from my standpoint.
I had a problem with a video card and was instructed, at least at first, to physically remove the card from its slot. But on second thought this was amended to only click on that Remove button after highlighting its listing in the Device Manager of the System Properties box. Presumably, that did delete it as far as recognition by the operating system was concerned, so that, on rebooting, it was recognized by the operating system as a new device and it then searched for the driver for the card and installed it. So far, I have not had any trouble with my display system so it, apparently, didn’t require the physical removal of the card from the computer and its replacement.
So, by analogy with the graphics card, wouldn’t there be a good chance that the sound card would not need its physical removal but only its “removal” by clicking that Remove button? Wouldn't that, at least, be worth a trial to try to avoid having to actually remove it from the computer?
Question 5:
I know we are not discussing my graphics card but it also had an entry in the Add/Remove Program Properties box and I was not advised to uninstall that and, apparently, it, so far, has not seemed to disturb the function of my graphics card. I mention this because in my learning process I am trying to compare the removal of that graphics card to the process you are advising for removal of the sound card. Would you comment about whether it should be requiired to uninstall the listings for the sound card in the Add/Remove Program Properties box as well as the removal of the listing by clicking on the Remove button in the System Properties box?
Question 6:
A great deal of attention has been paid to the Window Media Player in these discussions but it really seems “more trouble than its worth” except, I suppose, because Microsoft has made dealing with it inescapable. I wasn’t really so interested in using it if another sound and video player could be satisfactorily substituted for it. Would there be a satisfactory substitute for it?
Question 7:
In this discussion that is confined mostly to the uninstallation and reinstallation of the Sound card I thought I should just mention the following in case it might have some bearing on the Sound card removal process:
In trying to troubleshoot my audio problems from article advice (not here), there was some information that I should be able to use the Start>Settings>Control Panel and click on the Multimedia icon to bring up the Multimedia Properties box but on my system this showed only a single tab – the Devices tab and there was only a blank display there and there was no checkmark to display the loudspeaker icon in the System tray but you mentioned this occurs on some systems. Is this a defective Multimedia Properties box and could that interfere with the Sound card removal?
Thank you, again.
Bob
I’ve listed your comments in quotes and followed with my response to your statements:
“I don't know if the Add/Remove programs listing will be shown for an installation done through online Windows Update.”
I don’t know if I’m misunderstanding you but since I just updated WMP9 on my computer by the method listed by Zee, the listing in my Add/Remove Program Properties box is now: Windows media Player system update [9 series]
Here you list your procedure for reinstalling my sound card:
“I would still uninstall the sound card drivers from the Add/Remove Programs listing, and then reboot to Safe Mode to remove the listing for the card in Device Manager if it remained. I would then power down, physically remove the card from the slot, and reboot to full Windows in an effort to force windows to rebuild its hardware database without the card. Power off, reseat the card, and then power on again and allow it to be detected. Allow it to search for drivers, and direct it to a CD or folder containing the driver files if required. Reboot once again.”
I would greatly appreciate several questions answered about this entire process – please do not take these questions to mean that I'm disputing the advice to uninstall my sound card I'm certainly not.. It’s just that I need these questions answered so that I can understand what is going on. Please answer the specific question I have asked.
:
Question 1:
What is the difference between the two processes involved in removing my TBS Montego II card from the computer:
A. Specifically, what is uninstalled by the Add/Remove Program Properties box of its listings:
TBS Montego II and
TBS Montego II TBS Montego II Application
and
B. Specifically, what is actually "removed" by clicking on the Remove button in the System Properties box under the Device Manager by highlighting the listings shown below:
At the Multifunction listing is:
TBS Montego II Multifunction PCI Platform
At the Sound, video, game controller listing is:
Altec Lansing Multimedia - ACS 495
TBS Montego II Gameport Interface
TBS Montego II MPU-401 Interface
TBS Montego II PCI Audio
TBS Montego II Sound Blaster Pro Emulation
Question 2: When I check the Properties boxes of each of those listings it states that "the device is working properly" so why should there be any audio problems such as I am having?
Question 3:
The instruction of “physically” removing the sound card from its slot needs some discussion from my standpoint.
I had a problem with a video card and was instructed, at least at first, to physically remove the card from its slot. But on second thought this was amended to only click on that Remove button after highlighting its listing in the Device Manager of the System Properties box. Presumably, that did delete it as far as recognition by the operating system was concerned, so that, on rebooting, it was recognized by the operating system as a new device and it then searched for the driver for the card and installed it. So far, I have not had any trouble with my display system so it, apparently, didn’t require the physical removal of the card from the computer and its replacement.
So, by analogy with the graphics card, wouldn’t there be a good chance that the sound card would not need its physical removal but only its “removal” by clicking that Remove button? Wouldn't that, at least, be worth a trial to try to avoid having to actually remove it from the computer?
Question 5:
I know we are not discussing my graphics card but it also had an entry in the Add/Remove Program Properties box and I was not advised to uninstall that and, apparently, it, so far, has not seemed to disturb the function of my graphics card. I mention this because in my learning process I am trying to compare the removal of that graphics card to the process you are advising for removal of the sound card. Would you comment about whether it should be requiired to uninstall the listings for the sound card in the Add/Remove Program Properties box as well as the removal of the listing by clicking on the Remove button in the System Properties box?
Question 6:
A great deal of attention has been paid to the Window Media Player in these discussions but it really seems “more trouble than its worth” except, I suppose, because Microsoft has made dealing with it inescapable. I wasn’t really so interested in using it if another sound and video player could be satisfactorily substituted for it. Would there be a satisfactory substitute for it?
Question 7:
In this discussion that is confined mostly to the uninstallation and reinstallation of the Sound card I thought I should just mention the following in case it might have some bearing on the Sound card removal process:
In trying to troubleshoot my audio problems from article advice (not here), there was some information that I should be able to use the Start>Settings>Control Panel and click on the Multimedia icon to bring up the Multimedia Properties box but on my system this showed only a single tab – the Devices tab and there was only a blank display there and there was no checkmark to display the loudspeaker icon in the System tray but you mentioned this occurs on some systems. Is this a defective Multimedia Properties box and could that interfere with the Sound card removal?
Thank you, again.
Bob
Addressing your questions in turn.
Question 1:
It looks like your audio card installs drivers to allow the card to interface with the system as a valid device, and it also seems to have installed some other software as well, hence the "Montego II Application" entry in the Add/Remove programs. Some driver install CD's not only install a driver, but add extra utilities like audio diagnostics, their own mixers, dialogs that allow you to create separate "sound schemes" using "surround-sound emulation", and so on.
The "TB" stands for "Turtle Beach", and this is regarded as a pretty good range of sound cards. In your case, having immediately found a reference to it on a Dell support page while searching google
(http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/acc/mont2/tbusing.htm)
it seems that the "Applications" installed are probably:
A3D Effect - allows you to simulate 3D virtual speaker placements.
AudioStation 32 - A multi-featured "virtual Hi-Fi"
320-voice Wavetable Synthesizer with DVX - Adds a range of Midi "voices".
If uninstalling from Add/Remove Programs, I would suggest that you first uninstall the "TBS Montego II TBS Montego II Application" entry and reboot. I would then uninstall the "TBS Montego II" entry and reboot only to Safe Mode to prevent the card from being re-detected.
The purpose of double-checking for a remaining entry in Device Manager, and removal if true, is because some residual registry entries remain under the keys that store details about hardware devices. These registry entries are used to "enumerate2 the hardware when the system boots. It is quite common for remnants of old hardware devices to remain in the registry, and using the "Remove" option in Device Manager usually voids these entries.
Installing the drivers for the device should also have automatically installed and configured the following "devices". Note that a "device" isn't always just a physical hardware component, there are also software "devices":
TBS Montego II Multifunction PCI Platform - the whole package ??
TBS Montego II PCI Audio - the actual card/chip
TBS Montego II Gameport Interface - joystick socket
TBS Montego II MPU-401 Interface - Roland MIDI Port functionality
TBS Montego II Sound Blaster Pro Emulation - see note.
Creative Technologies were the first company to set standards with audio devices when they introduced their "Sound Blaster" cards. Practically every program that requires audio is able to use the built-in "Sound Blaster Emulation" for compatibility.
Roland is a company who pioneered the use of Synthesisers, and the MPU-401 Interface is what allows a rich range of "voices" to be used. Have you ever used a "Virtual Piano" program and been able to change the output to different musical instruments like "Muted Guitar" and "Wind Chimes"? You can also plug a MIDI keyboard into a computer and change the "voices". That's what MIDI is alla about.
During installation of a sound card, and as each of these "devices" is then installed, you may or may not be prompted to insert your Windows 98 CD for it to find the necessary resources. You often get this with Data/Fax/Voice Modems, where Windows installs the Modem drivers, and then sets up the audio capabilities by installing the "Wave Device for Voice Modem" device.
The additional entry in your "Sound, Video and game Controllers" section of Device Manager, namely "Altec Lansing Multimedia - ACS 495", infers that additional drivers are required for your USB computer speakers that's all. Altec Lansing is a very good name in speakers, and they are a well established name in professional studio speakers (monitors). There should be no need to remove this entry from device manager.
Question 2:
As I said earlier, I'm not entirely convinced that this is a problem with the sound card, but rather with your Sound Recorder files. It could also very easily be a configuration problem and, as you have seen from the additional "Applications" that may have been installed for your card, there could be some setting that you have missed checking. Removing devices is a standard troubleshooting step though, and blue_zee does know what he is talking about.
Question 3:
Physical removal of the card from the slot is necessary to prevent it being re-detected. After a hardware device has the drivers installed for it, an .INF file usually remains in the folder C:\Windows\INF and even though the drivers have been uninstalled, the presence of this .INF file will usually identify the device and try to automatically reinstall the drivers without your control. It will usually also re-list the device in the hardware database, which is what you want to avoid. When Windows detects a change in hardware at boot, you will see a progress indicator as it "rebuilds the hardware database". This isn't done in Safe Mode, which intentionally doesn't load drivers for most hardware. If you are hesitant with this, then don't do it.
Question 4:
You seem to have an aversion to this number :-)
Question 5:
If you remove a graphics card, then you will probably be forced into Safe Mode at boot, where it will use the basic VGA Driver. Your system doesn't need a sound card, so physical removal is less likely to cause such disruption. One thing I would add here is that you should disable all "sound events". The last thing you want is Windows trying to play the "Startup Sound" when there is no audio device or a conflict that could cause an error. Control Panel > Sounds > Save the current scheme by a suitable name, and then set it to "No Sounds". Click "Apply".
Clicking the "Remove" button in Device Manager is only necessary if, after uninstalling from Add/Remove Programs, it leaves a listing in Device Manager. We wouldn't know until you did this.
Question 6:
That's a very subjective question, and one that I will shy away from. Media Player is a standard, but I have avoided using ther all singing-all dancing versions like version 7.1 and 9 which alolow you to burn CD's and create "libraries", etc. I use a separate CD Burning application and know perfectly well how to arrange my audio files, so I don't need this functionality. I don't listen to online radio, and generally don't listen to any audio content over the internet. I download files and listen to them by running the file.
I have stuck with the default media Player 6.4 as installed by Windows 98, and have no compelling reason to upgrade, apart from installing the "Windows Media Video Codec" so i can playback *.WMV files.
Question 7:
The absence of functionality in the "Multimedia" dialog is typical of improperly installed or incorrect audio drivers, but could also be attributed to corrupt Windows components as installed from the "Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup tab" under the "Multimedia section. Click "Details" after selecting the "Multimedia" item, and let us know what boxes are ticked.
Look forward to your feedback.
Bill
Question 1:
It looks like your audio card installs drivers to allow the card to interface with the system as a valid device, and it also seems to have installed some other software as well, hence the "Montego II Application" entry in the Add/Remove programs. Some driver install CD's not only install a driver, but add extra utilities like audio diagnostics, their own mixers, dialogs that allow you to create separate "sound schemes" using "surround-sound emulation", and so on.
The "TB" stands for "Turtle Beach", and this is regarded as a pretty good range of sound cards. In your case, having immediately found a reference to it on a Dell support page while searching google
(http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/acc/mont2/tbusing.htm)
it seems that the "Applications" installed are probably:
A3D Effect - allows you to simulate 3D virtual speaker placements.
AudioStation 32 - A multi-featured "virtual Hi-Fi"
320-voice Wavetable Synthesizer with DVX - Adds a range of Midi "voices".
If uninstalling from Add/Remove Programs, I would suggest that you first uninstall the "TBS Montego II TBS Montego II Application" entry and reboot. I would then uninstall the "TBS Montego II" entry and reboot only to Safe Mode to prevent the card from being re-detected.
The purpose of double-checking for a remaining entry in Device Manager, and removal if true, is because some residual registry entries remain under the keys that store details about hardware devices. These registry entries are used to "enumerate2 the hardware when the system boots. It is quite common for remnants of old hardware devices to remain in the registry, and using the "Remove" option in Device Manager usually voids these entries.
Installing the drivers for the device should also have automatically installed and configured the following "devices". Note that a "device" isn't always just a physical hardware component, there are also software "devices":
TBS Montego II Multifunction PCI Platform - the whole package ??
TBS Montego II PCI Audio - the actual card/chip
TBS Montego II Gameport Interface - joystick socket
TBS Montego II MPU-401 Interface - Roland MIDI Port functionality
TBS Montego II Sound Blaster Pro Emulation - see note.
Creative Technologies were the first company to set standards with audio devices when they introduced their "Sound Blaster" cards. Practically every program that requires audio is able to use the built-in "Sound Blaster Emulation" for compatibility.
Roland is a company who pioneered the use of Synthesisers, and the MPU-401 Interface is what allows a rich range of "voices" to be used. Have you ever used a "Virtual Piano" program and been able to change the output to different musical instruments like "Muted Guitar" and "Wind Chimes"? You can also plug a MIDI keyboard into a computer and change the "voices". That's what MIDI is alla about.
During installation of a sound card, and as each of these "devices" is then installed, you may or may not be prompted to insert your Windows 98 CD for it to find the necessary resources. You often get this with Data/Fax/Voice Modems, where Windows installs the Modem drivers, and then sets up the audio capabilities by installing the "Wave Device for Voice Modem" device.
The additional entry in your "Sound, Video and game Controllers" section of Device Manager, namely "Altec Lansing Multimedia - ACS 495", infers that additional drivers are required for your USB computer speakers that's all. Altec Lansing is a very good name in speakers, and they are a well established name in professional studio speakers (monitors). There should be no need to remove this entry from device manager.
Question 2:
As I said earlier, I'm not entirely convinced that this is a problem with the sound card, but rather with your Sound Recorder files. It could also very easily be a configuration problem and, as you have seen from the additional "Applications" that may have been installed for your card, there could be some setting that you have missed checking. Removing devices is a standard troubleshooting step though, and blue_zee does know what he is talking about.
Question 3:
Physical removal of the card from the slot is necessary to prevent it being re-detected. After a hardware device has the drivers installed for it, an .INF file usually remains in the folder C:\Windows\INF and even though the drivers have been uninstalled, the presence of this .INF file will usually identify the device and try to automatically reinstall the drivers without your control. It will usually also re-list the device in the hardware database, which is what you want to avoid. When Windows detects a change in hardware at boot, you will see a progress indicator as it "rebuilds the hardware database". This isn't done in Safe Mode, which intentionally doesn't load drivers for most hardware. If you are hesitant with this, then don't do it.
Question 4:
You seem to have an aversion to this number :-)
Question 5:
If you remove a graphics card, then you will probably be forced into Safe Mode at boot, where it will use the basic VGA Driver. Your system doesn't need a sound card, so physical removal is less likely to cause such disruption. One thing I would add here is that you should disable all "sound events". The last thing you want is Windows trying to play the "Startup Sound" when there is no audio device or a conflict that could cause an error. Control Panel > Sounds > Save the current scheme by a suitable name, and then set it to "No Sounds". Click "Apply".
Clicking the "Remove" button in Device Manager is only necessary if, after uninstalling from Add/Remove Programs, it leaves a listing in Device Manager. We wouldn't know until you did this.
Question 6:
That's a very subjective question, and one that I will shy away from. Media Player is a standard, but I have avoided using ther all singing-all dancing versions like version 7.1 and 9 which alolow you to burn CD's and create "libraries", etc. I use a separate CD Burning application and know perfectly well how to arrange my audio files, so I don't need this functionality. I don't listen to online radio, and generally don't listen to any audio content over the internet. I download files and listen to them by running the file.
I have stuck with the default media Player 6.4 as installed by Windows 98, and have no compelling reason to upgrade, apart from installing the "Windows Media Video Codec" so i can playback *.WMV files.
Question 7:
The absence of functionality in the "Multimedia" dialog is typical of improperly installed or incorrect audio drivers, but could also be attributed to corrupt Windows components as installed from the "Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup tab" under the "Multimedia section. Click "Details" after selecting the "Multimedia" item, and let us know what boxes are ticked.
Look forward to your feedback.
Bill
ASKER
Sorry for the delay but there is a lot to feedback and I've found the Montego II A3D installation CD and the Turtle Beach Montego II A3D Diagnostic Diskette which need exploring.
Bob
Bob
Bob
While exploring the CD, I think you should look and see if you can find the setup file for the soundcard driver only. The CD will no doubt autorun to some kind of setup menu that detects if you have Adobe Acrobat to read manuals, etc, and may well have optional "extras" available from the menu. Often you have no control over other components such as (in this case) AudioStation32 during installation. Usually the different resources will be in separate sub-folders like:
CD:\drivers\
CD:\drivers\win98me\
CD:\drivers\win2kxp\
CD:\software\audiostation\
etc.
If you can isolate just the driver setup file, perhaps you will be able to uninstall all related software, and then install just the basic driver to see what happens. At least this would eliminate the possibility that there is some configuration setting in the utilities like AudioStation that hasn't been set correctly and you can concentrate on what settings the driver offers. It all depends on the layout of the CD, but that would be my approach.
While exploring the CD, I think you should look and see if you can find the setup file for the soundcard driver only. The CD will no doubt autorun to some kind of setup menu that detects if you have Adobe Acrobat to read manuals, etc, and may well have optional "extras" available from the menu. Often you have no control over other components such as (in this case) AudioStation32 during installation. Usually the different resources will be in separate sub-folders like:
CD:\drivers\
CD:\drivers\win98me\
CD:\drivers\win2kxp\
CD:\software\audiostation\
etc.
If you can isolate just the driver setup file, perhaps you will be able to uninstall all related software, and then install just the basic driver to see what happens. At least this would eliminate the possibility that there is some configuration setting in the utilities like AudioStation that hasn't been set correctly and you can concentrate on what settings the driver offers. It all depends on the layout of the CD, but that would be my approach.
ASKER
Let me get one question out of the way. In the work I will be doing on the ultimate restoration of my sound system, there is a removal of the listings in the Device Manager under the Sound, video, game controller listing of: Altec Lansing Multimedia - ACS 495. Should I be doing anything to that item at all since it seems to me that that is my external loudspeaker controller and, I would think, should not be messed with. Am I correct?
Now back to the other problem:
When I place the CD into a CD player it does not autorun but there is a setup.exe file on it that can probably start the same process - right?
However, if I am understanding you correctly, you are suggesting a possibility for sidestepping a more complicated installation process but are beyond me in your description so I will include the following information that may answer your questions about your suggestions - I hope so.
In any event I was going to offer to send you the results of some of my investigation of the CD and the Diagnostic disk in the post I was preparing. Let me ask you (so that I don't send you more than you need or want) - would you want to see the listing of the appropriate folders (and their contents) on that CD such as the English folder which contains all the .dll, .exe, .vxd, .wav, .inf, .drv files (and probably some more if you want the actual additional exetensions) of the driver(s?) and it also has an App folder which, since I don't recognize what I am seeing, I will list in its entirety since that may answer some of your questions about the applications that I don't understand:
The App folder contains:
_INST32I.EX_
_ISDEL.EXE
_SETUP.DLL
_sys1.cab
_user1.cab
DATA.TAG
data1.cab
LANG.DAT
layout.bin
MONTEGO.ENU
MONTEGO.EXE
MORE1.CAB
OS.DAT
SETUP.EXE
SETUP.INI
SETUP.INS
setup.iss
setup.lid
SETUP.LOG
Now, in additon with your indulgence, I will give you the text of the readme.txt file that spells out the process for installing the Sound card (and might have some information that would be useful to you at this point in time):
==========================
AU8830 Windows 98 Driver README.TXT
==========================
This is version 4.06 of the TBS Montego II AU8830 driver for Windows 98.
Note:
1) When the Windows Hardware Wizard asks for the location of the Montego drivers
please select 'specify location' and then select the appropriate language
from the installation CD.
2) Throughout this document we will refer to your CD Rom drive as 'X:', you should
substitute the proper driver letter designation.
3) The TBS Montego II Installation & Driver Disk contains various languages for each OS.
For our examples, we will refer to the 'English' install. If you are installing another
language, please substitute the appropriate language of the OS when installing the
drivers - see CD directory structure for complete list.
----> Example: If you have a German Windows OS, you would select files in X:\German.
4) Direct X 5.0 or greater must be installed for the Montego II to function properly. (I have DirectX 9.0c)
5) The TBS Montego II Applications will automatically install the applications in the
appropriate language of the OS.
I. SOFTWARE INSTALLATION
--------------------------
A. DRIVER INSTALLATION - Windows 98
If you have older drivers in your system, please uninstall them first
as described in Section C below.
1. Power on the system, placing the "TBS Montego II Installation & Driver Disk"
in the CD-ROM drive.
2. During the load process, Windows 98 should detect the TBS Montego II PCI
board and display a message such as "New Hardware Found". If Windows
prompts you for the drivers of the "PCI Multimedia Audio Device",
then select "Driver Disk Provided by Manufacturer".
Select the TBS Montego II CD-ROM's appropriate Language directory.
i.e---> X:\English
Installed drivers may include TBS Montego II PCI audio, TBS Montego II wavetable, TBS
Montego II mixer, TBS Montego II gameport interface, TBS Montego II
MPU401 interface, and TBS Montego II Sound Blaster emulation.
Note:
Depending on the version of Windows 98 and the configuration of the
system, you may be prompted to provide several file locations. Here are
the CD-ROMs and directory locations for which you may be prompted:
TBS Montego II Installation & Driver Disk X:\english
Windows 95/98 Installation Disk C:\windows\options\cabs
TBS Montego II Application Setup X:\Englis\apps
PCI Multifunction Audio Device X:\english
II. Overview
------------
A. SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS:
1. AU8830 sound card with Installation & Driver CD-ROM.
2. Access to Microsoft Windows 98 installation CD-ROM.
3. Windows 98 PC with:
* 100+MHz, >16MB DRAM, >15MB disk space, and CDROM
drive
* Available PCI slot.
4. Good-quality speakers or headphones and connecting cables.
5. Joystick and MIDI keyboard for testing the gameport.
Wavetable Memory Requirements:
The TBS Montego II hardware wavetable engine uses a native 4MB sample set. The
samples are stored on hard disk and swapped to DRAM as required. The
typical DRAM footprint is <2MB. As a result, the TBS Montego II sample set
provides better sound quality than 2MB sample sets offered by other
vendors, but does not require more memory.
III. QUICK START
----------------
1. Remove any existing TBS Montego II drivers from previous installations.
2. Install the TBS Montego II hardware.
3. Install the TBS Montego II Windows 98 or NT drivers, Microsoft Direct X and
TBS Montego II demonstration applications.
In most cases, you will be able to insert the card into your computer,
insert the TBS Montego II CD-ROM into the CD-ROM drive, and follow the on-screen
prompts for complete system installation.
B. UNINSTALLING WINDOWS 98 DRIVERS
To uninstall the software, you can use the following procedure: TBS Montego II
1. Open to the Windows 95/98 Device Manager (right-click on "My Computer"
and select "Properties").
2. Open the "Multifunction Adapters" tree and select "TBS Montego II
Multifunction PCI Platform"
3. Press the "Remove" button at the bottom of the Device Manager
window pane.
4. The drivers are now removed from memory, but are still on the hard
disk. To delete the files from
the hard disk:
a. Open the Windows 98 control panel's "Add/Remove Programs"
applet.
b. To remove the drivers, double-click " TBS Montego II". A
TBS Montego II uninstaller application starts.
c. To remove the demo applications, double-click "
TBS Montego II Applications". There is no need to reboot the
computer.
TBS Montego II logo and trademarks and TBS Montego II is a registered
trademark of Voyetra Turtle Beach Inc. All other trademarks are property of their
respective owners.
==========================
(c) 1996-98, All Rights Reserved
==========================
Oh, and one last thing:
In my Start>Programs>TBS Montego II Apps menu is listed:
A3D Demos
AudioStation 32
Audio View 32
MIDI Orchestrator 32
Visit Turtle Beach Website
I hope this fills the Bill, so to speak Thank you.
Bob
Now back to the other problem:
When I place the CD into a CD player it does not autorun but there is a setup.exe file on it that can probably start the same process - right?
However, if I am understanding you correctly, you are suggesting a possibility for sidestepping a more complicated installation process but are beyond me in your description so I will include the following information that may answer your questions about your suggestions - I hope so.
In any event I was going to offer to send you the results of some of my investigation of the CD and the Diagnostic disk in the post I was preparing. Let me ask you (so that I don't send you more than you need or want) - would you want to see the listing of the appropriate folders (and their contents) on that CD such as the English folder which contains all the .dll, .exe, .vxd, .wav, .inf, .drv files (and probably some more if you want the actual additional exetensions) of the driver(s?) and it also has an App folder which, since I don't recognize what I am seeing, I will list in its entirety since that may answer some of your questions about the applications that I don't understand:
The App folder contains:
_INST32I.EX_
_ISDEL.EXE
_SETUP.DLL
_sys1.cab
_user1.cab
DATA.TAG
data1.cab
LANG.DAT
layout.bin
MONTEGO.ENU
MONTEGO.EXE
MORE1.CAB
OS.DAT
SETUP.EXE
SETUP.INI
SETUP.INS
setup.iss
setup.lid
SETUP.LOG
Now, in additon with your indulgence, I will give you the text of the readme.txt file that spells out the process for installing the Sound card (and might have some information that would be useful to you at this point in time):
==========================
AU8830 Windows 98 Driver README.TXT
==========================
This is version 4.06 of the TBS Montego II AU8830 driver for Windows 98.
Note:
1) When the Windows Hardware Wizard asks for the location of the Montego drivers
please select 'specify location' and then select the appropriate language
from the installation CD.
2) Throughout this document we will refer to your CD Rom drive as 'X:', you should
substitute the proper driver letter designation.
3) The TBS Montego II Installation & Driver Disk contains various languages for each OS.
For our examples, we will refer to the 'English' install. If you are installing another
language, please substitute the appropriate language of the OS when installing the
drivers - see CD directory structure for complete list.
----> Example: If you have a German Windows OS, you would select files in X:\German.
4) Direct X 5.0 or greater must be installed for the Montego II to function properly. (I have DirectX 9.0c)
5) The TBS Montego II Applications will automatically install the applications in the
appropriate language of the OS.
I. SOFTWARE INSTALLATION
--------------------------
A. DRIVER INSTALLATION - Windows 98
If you have older drivers in your system, please uninstall them first
as described in Section C below.
1. Power on the system, placing the "TBS Montego II Installation & Driver Disk"
in the CD-ROM drive.
2. During the load process, Windows 98 should detect the TBS Montego II PCI
board and display a message such as "New Hardware Found". If Windows
prompts you for the drivers of the "PCI Multimedia Audio Device",
then select "Driver Disk Provided by Manufacturer".
Select the TBS Montego II CD-ROM's appropriate Language directory.
i.e---> X:\English
Installed drivers may include TBS Montego II PCI audio, TBS Montego II wavetable, TBS
Montego II mixer, TBS Montego II gameport interface, TBS Montego II
MPU401 interface, and TBS Montego II Sound Blaster emulation.
Note:
Depending on the version of Windows 98 and the configuration of the
system, you may be prompted to provide several file locations. Here are
the CD-ROMs and directory locations for which you may be prompted:
TBS Montego II Installation & Driver Disk X:\english
Windows 95/98 Installation Disk C:\windows\options\cabs
TBS Montego II Application Setup X:\Englis\apps
PCI Multifunction Audio Device X:\english
II. Overview
------------
A. SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS:
1. AU8830 sound card with Installation & Driver CD-ROM.
2. Access to Microsoft Windows 98 installation CD-ROM.
3. Windows 98 PC with:
* 100+MHz, >16MB DRAM, >15MB disk space, and CDROM
drive
* Available PCI slot.
4. Good-quality speakers or headphones and connecting cables.
5. Joystick and MIDI keyboard for testing the gameport.
Wavetable Memory Requirements:
The TBS Montego II hardware wavetable engine uses a native 4MB sample set. The
samples are stored on hard disk and swapped to DRAM as required. The
typical DRAM footprint is <2MB. As a result, the TBS Montego II sample set
provides better sound quality than 2MB sample sets offered by other
vendors, but does not require more memory.
III. QUICK START
----------------
1. Remove any existing TBS Montego II drivers from previous installations.
2. Install the TBS Montego II hardware.
3. Install the TBS Montego II Windows 98 or NT drivers, Microsoft Direct X and
TBS Montego II demonstration applications.
In most cases, you will be able to insert the card into your computer,
insert the TBS Montego II CD-ROM into the CD-ROM drive, and follow the on-screen
prompts for complete system installation.
B. UNINSTALLING WINDOWS 98 DRIVERS
To uninstall the software, you can use the following procedure: TBS Montego II
1. Open to the Windows 95/98 Device Manager (right-click on "My Computer"
and select "Properties").
2. Open the "Multifunction Adapters" tree and select "TBS Montego II
Multifunction PCI Platform"
3. Press the "Remove" button at the bottom of the Device Manager
window pane.
4. The drivers are now removed from memory, but are still on the hard
disk. To delete the files from
the hard disk:
a. Open the Windows 98 control panel's "Add/Remove Programs"
applet.
b. To remove the drivers, double-click " TBS Montego II". A
TBS Montego II uninstaller application starts.
c. To remove the demo applications, double-click "
TBS Montego II Applications". There is no need to reboot the
computer.
TBS Montego II logo and trademarks and TBS Montego II is a registered
trademark of Voyetra Turtle Beach Inc. All other trademarks are property of their
respective owners.
==========================
(c) 1996-98, All Rights Reserved
==========================
Oh, and one last thing:
In my Start>Programs>TBS Montego II Apps menu is listed:
A3D Demos
AudioStation 32
Audio View 32
MIDI Orchestrator 32
Visit Turtle Beach Website
I hope this fills the Bill, so to speak Thank you.
Bob
ASKER
After reading over your post regarding finding the sound card driver only wouldn't that be in the root directory of that CD; that is, in the CD:\English folder that I described in my last post - the folder that contains all those .dll, .vxd, etc. files. Since I don't recognize what I am seeing possibly I should just show you the entire list of them?
Bob
Bob
Thanks for that comprehensive feedback, Bob.
I shouldn't think it will prove necessary to remove the drivers for your speakers. That will probably only be a USB driver, and you don't seem to have had any problems with them.
What I had been wondering was whether there was a way to bypass automatic installation of the extra applications that setup.exe installs ie. those linked to by the shortcuts on your start menu.
The files you have listed from _INST32I.EX_ down to SETUP.LOG make up what looks to be a standard installation source folder over which you probably won't have any control. Running setup.exe from the root of the CD will probably only ask to choose a language, and setup.exe in the "English" folder will then be called.
Looking at the Uninstallation instructions on the following Dell support page, they state that double-clicking on the setup.exe file in your "English" folder will launch the UNinstall process. The setup.exe file in the "English" folder is no doubt capable of Installing or Uninstalling, depending on whether it detects the drivers to already be installed or not. In other words, I think that if you double-click setup.exe on a system which has not had the drivers installed, it will install them, and doing so on a system with the drivers already installed will uninstall them. There should always be a prompt to continue or cancel before it does either.
It looks as though there would be no real benefit in running setup.exe directly from your "English" folder rather than the setup.exe in the root of the CD.
Whether the setup routine will then offer you the option of choosing what components to install will only really be known by running it and looking carefully at the options before clicking "Next" at each stage. During subsequent reinstallation from the CD, I would avoid installing any "Demo's" and "extras" apart from the drivers, if the options exist.
Looking through the readme.txt file, I see that it explains each of the entries listed in "Add/Remove Programs":
To remove the DRIVERS, double-click "TBS Montego II".
To remove the demo APPLICATIONS, double-click "TBS Montego II Applications".
So some of the additional applications installed are "Demo" ones. My instinct would be to uninstall them first, and then reboot. Removing these "applications" SHOULD have no effect on the soundcard drivers, but it would get rid of any otherwise confusing start menu shortcuts, listings in Add/Remove Programs, and other things so that you can focus on the soundcard driver only. Although my instinct would be to do that first, read down a bit more regarding the recommended uninstall order.
I notice the very specific instruction steps for UNinstalling the drivers:
Step1 :
Device Manager > "Multifunction Adapters" tree > "TBS Montego II Multifunction PCI Platform" > "Remove" button.
** Are these items listed in your Device Manager? **
They state quite specifically that all this does is to unload the drivers from memory ready for proper uninstallation with the next step.
Step 2 :
Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs > "TBS Montego II" > double-click.
Double-clicking is just the same as selecting the entry and then clicking on the "Add/Remove" button, and either method will start the uninstallation process.
It would appear that the uninstaller must have some difficulty with removing the installed files if they are already loaded into memory, hence the requirement for performing Step 1 first. Blue_zee has been suggesting removal of drivers from Safe Mode, and the results would be similar ie. the drivers would not be loaded into memory in Safe Mode, and would allow for a total uninstallation.
The readme file seems to infer that removal of the "applications" ie. "Demo Programs" should then be performed ONLY AFTER you uninstall the drivers. This is also reiterated in the readme files in driver downloads from the manufacturer's site where it says "IMPORTANT! Make sure you do NOT remove the "applications" before installing any drivers"
Reading through this Dell page :
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/acc/mont2/tbtroubl.htm
it discusses the recording and playback capabilities of "AudioStation", and also mentions running an "audio testing application called SoundCheck included in your Montego audio software suite".
This is really the reason that I suggested trying to perform an installation WITHOUT the extras. Recall earlier that one of the errors you had related to "Microphone in use by another program", and the microphone slider muted itself again. My theory is that the "software suite" components might be dominating the scene here, and causing a conflict of interest between Windows Sound Recorder and AudioStation and also between the Windows Volume control and the Montego Mixer. It is just a theory though, and doesn't explain the "greyed-out" unavailable options in the "Multimedia" Control Panel applet.
The other option, of course, is to learn the functions of "AudioStation" and try to use that for creating recordings in preference to Sound Recorder.
Here are some good links I found on the Turtle Beach support site:
Resources and downloads for Turtle Beach Montego II:
http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/kb_ftp/576ftp.asp
FAQ Sheet:
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/5769999.txt
Uninstall steps detailed under the section "Drivers - reinstalling (Win9x/ME)".
>>>"Before installing any Software or Hardware in a system, you must disable any Antivirus programs....<<<
Good point. Forgot to mention this.
Product Manual:
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/mtg2.pdf
Update Patch for all Montego series sound cards.
contains updates necessary for running newer games using A3D 3.12 technology :
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/a3d_312.exe
Diagnostic Boot Floppy creator for Montego II series cards:
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/mtg2diag.zip
DRIVER v.4.06.2046.01 (referred to as version 4.06 which you have on CD) WINDOWS 9x Montego II dated 12-07-00 (8.4 MB):
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/46m2_9x.zip
(Requires DirectX. IMPORTANT! Make sure you do NOT remove the "applications" before installing any drivers. Read the 'readme.txt' in the ZIP file).
DRIVER v.4.06.2046.01 (referred to as version 4.06 which you have on CD) WINDOWS 9x/ME Montego II WITHOUT SoundBlaster Emulation (8.4 MB):
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/46m2_9x1.zip
(Requires one less IRQ - where resource conflicts are a problem.
Requires DirectX. IMPORTANT! Make sure you do NOT remove the "applications" before installing any drivers. Read the 'readme.txt' in the ZIP file).
Knowledgebase Articles:
http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/kb_ftp/576.asp
AudioStation32:
http://www.voyetra.com/site/kb_ftp/113ftp.asp
Upgrade to patch AudioStation32 to Version 1.03.04 (dated 11-15-99):
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/voy/as32/as32ptch.exe
AudioStation32 FAQ Sheet:
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/voy/as32/1139999.txt
I shouldn't think it will prove necessary to remove the drivers for your speakers. That will probably only be a USB driver, and you don't seem to have had any problems with them.
What I had been wondering was whether there was a way to bypass automatic installation of the extra applications that setup.exe installs ie. those linked to by the shortcuts on your start menu.
The files you have listed from _INST32I.EX_ down to SETUP.LOG make up what looks to be a standard installation source folder over which you probably won't have any control. Running setup.exe from the root of the CD will probably only ask to choose a language, and setup.exe in the "English" folder will then be called.
Looking at the Uninstallation instructions on the following Dell support page, they state that double-clicking on the setup.exe file in your "English" folder will launch the UNinstall process. The setup.exe file in the "English" folder is no doubt capable of Installing or Uninstalling, depending on whether it detects the drivers to already be installed or not. In other words, I think that if you double-click setup.exe on a system which has not had the drivers installed, it will install them, and doing so on a system with the drivers already installed will uninstall them. There should always be a prompt to continue or cancel before it does either.
It looks as though there would be no real benefit in running setup.exe directly from your "English" folder rather than the setup.exe in the root of the CD.
Whether the setup routine will then offer you the option of choosing what components to install will only really be known by running it and looking carefully at the options before clicking "Next" at each stage. During subsequent reinstallation from the CD, I would avoid installing any "Demo's" and "extras" apart from the drivers, if the options exist.
Looking through the readme.txt file, I see that it explains each of the entries listed in "Add/Remove Programs":
To remove the DRIVERS, double-click "TBS Montego II".
To remove the demo APPLICATIONS, double-click "TBS Montego II Applications".
So some of the additional applications installed are "Demo" ones. My instinct would be to uninstall them first, and then reboot. Removing these "applications" SHOULD have no effect on the soundcard drivers, but it would get rid of any otherwise confusing start menu shortcuts, listings in Add/Remove Programs, and other things so that you can focus on the soundcard driver only. Although my instinct would be to do that first, read down a bit more regarding the recommended uninstall order.
I notice the very specific instruction steps for UNinstalling the drivers:
Step1 :
Device Manager > "Multifunction Adapters" tree > "TBS Montego II Multifunction PCI Platform" > "Remove" button.
** Are these items listed in your Device Manager? **
They state quite specifically that all this does is to unload the drivers from memory ready for proper uninstallation with the next step.
Step 2 :
Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs > "TBS Montego II" > double-click.
Double-clicking is just the same as selecting the entry and then clicking on the "Add/Remove" button, and either method will start the uninstallation process.
It would appear that the uninstaller must have some difficulty with removing the installed files if they are already loaded into memory, hence the requirement for performing Step 1 first. Blue_zee has been suggesting removal of drivers from Safe Mode, and the results would be similar ie. the drivers would not be loaded into memory in Safe Mode, and would allow for a total uninstallation.
The readme file seems to infer that removal of the "applications" ie. "Demo Programs" should then be performed ONLY AFTER you uninstall the drivers. This is also reiterated in the readme files in driver downloads from the manufacturer's site where it says "IMPORTANT! Make sure you do NOT remove the "applications" before installing any drivers"
Reading through this Dell page :
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/acc/mont2/tbtroubl.htm
it discusses the recording and playback capabilities of "AudioStation", and also mentions running an "audio testing application called SoundCheck included in your Montego audio software suite".
This is really the reason that I suggested trying to perform an installation WITHOUT the extras. Recall earlier that one of the errors you had related to "Microphone in use by another program", and the microphone slider muted itself again. My theory is that the "software suite" components might be dominating the scene here, and causing a conflict of interest between Windows Sound Recorder and AudioStation and also between the Windows Volume control and the Montego Mixer. It is just a theory though, and doesn't explain the "greyed-out" unavailable options in the "Multimedia" Control Panel applet.
The other option, of course, is to learn the functions of "AudioStation" and try to use that for creating recordings in preference to Sound Recorder.
Here are some good links I found on the Turtle Beach support site:
Resources and downloads for Turtle Beach Montego II:
http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/kb_ftp/576ftp.asp
FAQ Sheet:
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/5769999.txt
Uninstall steps detailed under the section "Drivers - reinstalling (Win9x/ME)".
>>>"Before installing any Software or Hardware in a system, you must disable any Antivirus programs....<<<
Good point. Forgot to mention this.
Product Manual:
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/mtg2.pdf
Update Patch for all Montego series sound cards.
contains updates necessary for running newer games using A3D 3.12 technology :
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/a3d_312.exe
Diagnostic Boot Floppy creator for Montego II series cards:
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/mtg2diag.zip
DRIVER v.4.06.2046.01 (referred to as version 4.06 which you have on CD) WINDOWS 9x Montego II dated 12-07-00 (8.4 MB):
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/46m2_9x.zip
(Requires DirectX. IMPORTANT! Make sure you do NOT remove the "applications" before installing any drivers. Read the 'readme.txt' in the ZIP file).
DRIVER v.4.06.2046.01 (referred to as version 4.06 which you have on CD) WINDOWS 9x/ME Montego II WITHOUT SoundBlaster Emulation (8.4 MB):
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/46m2_9x1.zip
(Requires one less IRQ - where resource conflicts are a problem.
Requires DirectX. IMPORTANT! Make sure you do NOT remove the "applications" before installing any drivers. Read the 'readme.txt' in the ZIP file).
Knowledgebase Articles:
http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/kb_ftp/576.asp
AudioStation32:
http://www.voyetra.com/site/kb_ftp/113ftp.asp
Upgrade to patch AudioStation32 to Version 1.03.04 (dated 11-15-99):
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/voy/as32/as32ptch.exe
AudioStation32 FAQ Sheet:
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/voy/as32/1139999.txt
ASKER
Once again, that's a lot to digest. There seems to be much complexity in the details. Before that last post I was just going to send you 2 scenarios that were my my understanding of the steps you had advised under 2 circumstances:
Scenario One: Steps needed to restore my Sound card functionality that required physically pulling my Sound card from its slot.
Scenario Two: Steps that were needed to restore my Sound card functionality that would not require that I remove the card from its slot. It sounded as if you were offering the possibility that this could be worked out without physically removing that card.
But now I believe I should also submit a Scenario Three: Steps needed to follow the Dell Uninstallation (and reinstallation) processes for restoring my Sound card functionality.
So, after a bit of study, I'll get back to you with those Scenarios and answers to, I believe, a couple of other pieces of information that you were asking for and the results of the SoundCheck testing.
Thanks.
Bob
Scenario One: Steps needed to restore my Sound card functionality that required physically pulling my Sound card from its slot.
Scenario Two: Steps that were needed to restore my Sound card functionality that would not require that I remove the card from its slot. It sounded as if you were offering the possibility that this could be worked out without physically removing that card.
But now I believe I should also submit a Scenario Three: Steps needed to follow the Dell Uninstallation (and reinstallation) processes for restoring my Sound card functionality.
So, after a bit of study, I'll get back to you with those Scenarios and answers to, I believe, a couple of other pieces of information that you were asking for and the results of the SoundCheck testing.
Thanks.
Bob
Bob
The references to the Dell support pages were just a means to refer you to a reference that shows the installed applications without having to copy and paste the full details here in the question. They are only literally applicable IF you DO have a Dell Computer, in which case the steps are easy enough to follow.
I actually referenced another Dell page, but forgot to add thelink. It doesn't really matter though. The reason I posted it was because of the fact I had noticed a specific order of uninstalling the drivers for the sound card:
"Uninstallation of the "applications" (ie. "Demo Programs") should ONLY be performed AFTER you uninstall the drivers".
I can see the reasoning behind this, because the "applications" are obviously quite tied-in with the driver files and, if you uninstalled the applications first, it may leave a dysfunctional or incomplete driver installation routine because some of the files may have already been removed when you uninstalled the applications.
It really wouldn't make any difference in the long-run, because it would be easy enough to reinstall one or the other if it turned out that one had to be uninstalled before the other. If that happened, you just reinstall the applications and drivers from the CD, reboot, and then uninstall them in the reverse order.
I have attempted to cover as much as possible in as non-technical a way as I am capable of, but the length of the postings give the impression of complexity. It's not complex at all if you extract the lines between the extended explanations, and the only way to find out is to actually do it. I am conscious of the fact you stressed "a lack of confidence due to insufficient knowledge", but it's easy to forget from time-to-time. In any event, I'll bet you have gained a good insight into the sound card that you may never have learned, and nobody could suggest you have "insufficient knowledge" by this stage :-)
So, let's start again
-----------------------
Going way back to blue_zee's very first comment, he said:
"One setting that is known to create problems in some circunstances is the Sound Blaster Emulation. You can click Properties in Device Manager and select "Disable in this hardware profile". Reboot and test".
We now know from your initial question that this IS installed on your system as a "device" in Device Manager
Device Manager > locate and select "Sound Blaster Pro Emulation" > Properties > "Disable in this hardware profile" > Reboot and test".
IF that DOES regain full functionality, then you have isolated the culprit and you have two choices:
1. Leave that setting as it is and carry on using your system
2. If you ever need to reinstall the sound card drivers in the future, uninstall the old ones first, and then install the version I linked to in my last question that does not install "Sound Blaster Emulation".
Problem not fixed by disabling "Sound Blaster Pro Emulation"?:
REINSTALL the same drivers from the supplied CD right on top of themselves and reboot to see if that fixes the problem. In other words, just double-click "setup.exe" in the root of the CD and follow the instructions. Reboot even if not prompted.
Problem still not fixed?
UNINSTALL and Reinstall the DRIVERS (not the "application" software) by following Paragraph B from your readme.txt file posted earlier:
1. Device Manager (right-click on "My Computer" and select "Properties") > "Multifunction Adapters" > "TBS Montego II Multifunction PCI Platform" > click "Remove" and accept any prompts.
2. Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs > select "TBS Montego II"
3. Reboot even if not prompted.
4. When the system detects the device again, it may automatically resinstall the drivers if your CD is in the drive. If not, tell it to look for drivers on the CD.
5. When the drivers are installed, Reboot even if not prompted.
6. Test for functionality.
Problem still not fixed?
This step requires that you earth yourself to prevent static, and it is wise to buy one of these for a few $5 at most:
http://www.pccables.com/21013.htm
1. Control Panel > Sounds > Set it to "No Sounds" > Apply
2. Perform Steps 1 and 2 as "uninstallation" steps above
3. This time, Shut Down the computer instead of rebooting, and disconnect the power cable.
4. Unplug the audio leads from the back of the computer, taking note of which cable was in which socket, and which way up it was. I tag cables with a bit of masking tape, and write details on it.
5. Open the case (or just one cover on the side that gives access to the board) and you will see a thin cable from your CD-Rom drive connecting to the sound card. Taking note of what connector it is fitted to, gently pull it off. Disconnect any other wires connected to the sound card and note where they connected.
6. Unscrew the screw holding the metal plate of the sound card down onto the chassis
http://support.microsoft.com/library/images/support/en-gb/consumer/graphicscard2.gif
(shows a graphics card, but the sound card will look much the same except for the audio connectors at the back).
5. Grip it carefully by the metal plate on one side, and the uppermost edge of the board at the other, NOT like this idiot is handling it like a gorilla:
http://www.pcbyvideo.com/files/align1.mpg
6. Gently wiggle it in-line with the direction of the slot until it pulls straight out
7. Lay it on an anti-static surface like the anti-stat bag from a component bought previously, or ask for a used one at the store you are buying your wrist strap.
8. Push the side panel back onto the case temporarily, connect the power cable, and power up the computer.
9. This should rebuild the hardware database in the absence of the sound card.
10. Shut down and perform steps 7 to 4 in reverse order to refit the card.
11. Screw the side(s) back onto the case, connect the power cable, and restart the computer.
12. When the system detects the device again, it may automatically resinstall the drivers if your CD is in the drive. If not, tell it to look for drivers on the CD.
13. When the drivers are installed, Reboot even if not prompted.
14. Test for functionality.
Problem still not solved?:
Perform steps 1 to 14 from the section immediately above, but ADD the following steps to the process:
2 (a) After uninstalling the drivers, Uninstall the "TBS Montego II APPLICATIONS" from Add/Remove programs and reboot.
12 (a) Reinstall the "Applications" from your CD and reboot.
Problem still not solved?:
Repeat the full process as detailed above, but this time use the driver file from the Turtle Bay Support site:
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/46m2_9x.zip
That version DOES NOT include the "Demo" applications.
Unzip it using WinZip to a folder such as C:\Windows\TEMP, or better still Unzip it to its own folder and burn the contents to a CD-R that you can mark up "Audio Driver TBS Montego II". It might be an idea to also download the driver without "SoundBlaster Emulation (ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/46m2_9x1.zip) and do likewise with it, except that you can create two separate folders on the CD named "Audio_TBSMontegoII_406" and "Audio_TBSMontegoII_406_No
The files from this zip file don't contain a setup.exe file, but the required files will be picked up by the "new hardware wizard" once you point it to the folder containing them.
There is one benefit in unzipping the files to your TEMP folder, and that is that you can delete the files before powering down to remove the sound card. That way, when the system reboots and finds the device again, the files won't be where they were to reinstall them automatically, and this would allow you to direct the process to look elsewhere (eg. a CD) for alternate drivers.
Problem still not solved?:
Let us know and we can take it further, because failure to solve the problem at this stage MUST then be a configuration or software problem.
Hope you are able to follow the steps detailed in this comment.
Bill
The references to the Dell support pages were just a means to refer you to a reference that shows the installed applications without having to copy and paste the full details here in the question. They are only literally applicable IF you DO have a Dell Computer, in which case the steps are easy enough to follow.
I actually referenced another Dell page, but forgot to add thelink. It doesn't really matter though. The reason I posted it was because of the fact I had noticed a specific order of uninstalling the drivers for the sound card:
"Uninstallation of the "applications" (ie. "Demo Programs") should ONLY be performed AFTER you uninstall the drivers".
I can see the reasoning behind this, because the "applications" are obviously quite tied-in with the driver files and, if you uninstalled the applications first, it may leave a dysfunctional or incomplete driver installation routine because some of the files may have already been removed when you uninstalled the applications.
It really wouldn't make any difference in the long-run, because it would be easy enough to reinstall one or the other if it turned out that one had to be uninstalled before the other. If that happened, you just reinstall the applications and drivers from the CD, reboot, and then uninstall them in the reverse order.
I have attempted to cover as much as possible in as non-technical a way as I am capable of, but the length of the postings give the impression of complexity. It's not complex at all if you extract the lines between the extended explanations, and the only way to find out is to actually do it. I am conscious of the fact you stressed "a lack of confidence due to insufficient knowledge", but it's easy to forget from time-to-time. In any event, I'll bet you have gained a good insight into the sound card that you may never have learned, and nobody could suggest you have "insufficient knowledge" by this stage :-)
So, let's start again
-----------------------
Going way back to blue_zee's very first comment, he said:
"One setting that is known to create problems in some circunstances is the Sound Blaster Emulation. You can click Properties in Device Manager and select "Disable in this hardware profile". Reboot and test".
We now know from your initial question that this IS installed on your system as a "device" in Device Manager
Device Manager > locate and select "Sound Blaster Pro Emulation" > Properties > "Disable in this hardware profile" > Reboot and test".
IF that DOES regain full functionality, then you have isolated the culprit and you have two choices:
1. Leave that setting as it is and carry on using your system
2. If you ever need to reinstall the sound card drivers in the future, uninstall the old ones first, and then install the version I linked to in my last question that does not install "Sound Blaster Emulation".
Problem not fixed by disabling "Sound Blaster Pro Emulation"?:
REINSTALL the same drivers from the supplied CD right on top of themselves and reboot to see if that fixes the problem. In other words, just double-click "setup.exe" in the root of the CD and follow the instructions. Reboot even if not prompted.
Problem still not fixed?
UNINSTALL and Reinstall the DRIVERS (not the "application" software) by following Paragraph B from your readme.txt file posted earlier:
1. Device Manager (right-click on "My Computer" and select "Properties") > "Multifunction Adapters" > "TBS Montego II Multifunction PCI Platform" > click "Remove" and accept any prompts.
2. Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs > select "TBS Montego II"
3. Reboot even if not prompted.
4. When the system detects the device again, it may automatically resinstall the drivers if your CD is in the drive. If not, tell it to look for drivers on the CD.
5. When the drivers are installed, Reboot even if not prompted.
6. Test for functionality.
Problem still not fixed?
This step requires that you earth yourself to prevent static, and it is wise to buy one of these for a few $5 at most:
http://www.pccables.com/21013.htm
1. Control Panel > Sounds > Set it to "No Sounds" > Apply
2. Perform Steps 1 and 2 as "uninstallation" steps above
3. This time, Shut Down the computer instead of rebooting, and disconnect the power cable.
4. Unplug the audio leads from the back of the computer, taking note of which cable was in which socket, and which way up it was. I tag cables with a bit of masking tape, and write details on it.
5. Open the case (or just one cover on the side that gives access to the board) and you will see a thin cable from your CD-Rom drive connecting to the sound card. Taking note of what connector it is fitted to, gently pull it off. Disconnect any other wires connected to the sound card and note where they connected.
6. Unscrew the screw holding the metal plate of the sound card down onto the chassis
http://support.microsoft.com/library/images/support/en-gb/consumer/graphicscard2.gif
(shows a graphics card, but the sound card will look much the same except for the audio connectors at the back).
5. Grip it carefully by the metal plate on one side, and the uppermost edge of the board at the other, NOT like this idiot is handling it like a gorilla:
http://www.pcbyvideo.com/files/align1.mpg
6. Gently wiggle it in-line with the direction of the slot until it pulls straight out
7. Lay it on an anti-static surface like the anti-stat bag from a component bought previously, or ask for a used one at the store you are buying your wrist strap.
8. Push the side panel back onto the case temporarily, connect the power cable, and power up the computer.
9. This should rebuild the hardware database in the absence of the sound card.
10. Shut down and perform steps 7 to 4 in reverse order to refit the card.
11. Screw the side(s) back onto the case, connect the power cable, and restart the computer.
12. When the system detects the device again, it may automatically resinstall the drivers if your CD is in the drive. If not, tell it to look for drivers on the CD.
13. When the drivers are installed, Reboot even if not prompted.
14. Test for functionality.
Problem still not solved?:
Perform steps 1 to 14 from the section immediately above, but ADD the following steps to the process:
2 (a) After uninstalling the drivers, Uninstall the "TBS Montego II APPLICATIONS" from Add/Remove programs and reboot.
12 (a) Reinstall the "Applications" from your CD and reboot.
Problem still not solved?:
Repeat the full process as detailed above, but this time use the driver file from the Turtle Bay Support site:
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/46m2_9x.zip
That version DOES NOT include the "Demo" applications.
Unzip it using WinZip to a folder such as C:\Windows\TEMP, or better still Unzip it to its own folder and burn the contents to a CD-R that you can mark up "Audio Driver TBS Montego II". It might be an idea to also download the driver without "SoundBlaster Emulation (ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/46m2_9x1.zip) and do likewise with it, except that you can create two separate folders on the CD named "Audio_TBSMontegoII_406" and "Audio_TBSMontegoII_406_No
The files from this zip file don't contain a setup.exe file, but the required files will be picked up by the "new hardware wizard" once you point it to the folder containing them.
There is one benefit in unzipping the files to your TEMP folder, and that is that you can delete the files before powering down to remove the sound card. That way, when the system reboots and finds the device again, the files won't be where they were to reinstall them automatically, and this would allow you to direct the process to look elsewhere (eg. a CD) for alternate drivers.
Problem still not solved?:
Let us know and we can take it further, because failure to solve the problem at this stage MUST then be a configuration or software problem.
Hope you are able to follow the steps detailed in this comment.
Bill
ASKER
Disabling the Sound Blaster Pro Emulation did not correct my audio problem so I've gone on to the uninstallation of the drivers and tried to reinstall them and reached the point where I've found the drivers on the installation CD. I've gotten to the point where it has installed some of them but now I've begun to get messages (actually only one so far) telling me that my computer has a newer versions of a file than one on the installation CD which is dated back to August, 1998 (I bought the computer in June, 1999.) (Yes I know I should have a new computer and operating system but that's another story.) So, should I just accept all my (newer) version files that apparently were the ones I had been using or accept all the (older) files on the installation CD? Wouldn't the problem be that if I accept all my newer files, I would, possibly, be accepting some corrupted files?
Bob
Bob
It all depends what files are being mentioned. generally the rule is that you should NOT allow an installation to overwrite newer files with older versions, especially if they are Windows System files.
A good installation routine should back up any files replaced, and these should then be reinstated when that program/driver is uninstalled at a later date. In some instances, the setup packages contain Windows system files where it is anticipated that the routine might encounter the absence of a required file on an older system. For example, a driver setup package designed for Windows 95, 98, 98SE, and ME might contain Windows system files needed to update a Windows 95 and 98 system with more recent Windows 98SE files that are known to work well with the driver. In that case, the same installation on a Windows 98SE or ME system would detect the correct versions and just bypass this step. Poorly written installers won't version check existing files, but the Windows Version Conflict Manager will intercept the attempt to replace a file with an older version.
What you have to remember here is that the version of the file that the installer proposes replacing could very easily have already been updated one or more times from the original version installed from the Windows 98 CD (eg. by "Windows Update" patches or other applications), and that the version being offered by the driver installer is an even more recent version still. Accepting an older file to replace an existing newer one could impact on currently installed programs, and (although to a lesser extent) vice-versa. Some Windows system files tend to be installed almost like matching sets, whereby a different file version of one of the set could cause a "version conflict".
I can only assume that we are talking about Windows System files here, because you are installing the same driver version as was already previously installed from that same CD, and the same files will be in the process of being installed. I could give a definitive answer if I knew the file names.
I only see two native Windows system files in the driver packages I downloaded, namely "Msvcrt.dll" and "Asycfilt.dll". The setup file on your CD probably has a few more that it will try to install.
I suggest that you KEEP the existing newer file and DON'T let the driver installer replace it with an older one.
A good installation routine should back up any files replaced, and these should then be reinstated when that program/driver is uninstalled at a later date. In some instances, the setup packages contain Windows system files where it is anticipated that the routine might encounter the absence of a required file on an older system. For example, a driver setup package designed for Windows 95, 98, 98SE, and ME might contain Windows system files needed to update a Windows 95 and 98 system with more recent Windows 98SE files that are known to work well with the driver. In that case, the same installation on a Windows 98SE or ME system would detect the correct versions and just bypass this step. Poorly written installers won't version check existing files, but the Windows Version Conflict Manager will intercept the attempt to replace a file with an older version.
What you have to remember here is that the version of the file that the installer proposes replacing could very easily have already been updated one or more times from the original version installed from the Windows 98 CD (eg. by "Windows Update" patches or other applications), and that the version being offered by the driver installer is an even more recent version still. Accepting an older file to replace an existing newer one could impact on currently installed programs, and (although to a lesser extent) vice-versa. Some Windows system files tend to be installed almost like matching sets, whereby a different file version of one of the set could cause a "version conflict".
I can only assume that we are talking about Windows System files here, because you are installing the same driver version as was already previously installed from that same CD, and the same files will be in the process of being installed. I could give a definitive answer if I knew the file names.
I only see two native Windows system files in the driver packages I downloaded, namely "Msvcrt.dll" and "Asycfilt.dll". The setup file on your CD probably has a few more that it will try to install.
I suggest that you KEEP the existing newer file and DON'T let the driver installer replace it with an older one.
ASKER
Well, too late. I goofed. I just never noticed that you were PDT so I got too impatient. Certainly my fault and not yours. It was a Windows System file as far as I know. It believe it was MSVCRT.DLL, a Microsoft Run-Time Library file if I'm not mistaken), and I've been suffering the consequences ever since having been notified on attempted reboots that I have 3 such and such other *.DLL files (MSVCP60.DLL, MSCIRT.DLL, and I think there was a third message that I currently don't remember but it can be retrieved on the next boot up if it is needed) that are "linked to the missing export MSVCRT.DLL??_U@YAPAXI@Z" (this appendage changes too). I presume what I am saying makes some sense to you and you are still willing to talk to me. Just for the exercise you might tell me if either of my "remedies" might work.
1) Restore an earlier Registry?
or
2) Find a later version of the same MSVCRT.DLL file on the Internet and replace the incorrect one?
Bob
P.S. That sound like a good rule. I'll have to remember it. I had assumed that what I was getting was all from the installation CD but since it was Microsoft that wouldn't be the case.
1) Restore an earlier Registry?
or
2) Find a later version of the same MSVCRT.DLL file on the Internet and replace the incorrect one?
Bob
P.S. That sound like a good rule. I'll have to remember it. I had assumed that what I was getting was all from the installation CD but since it was Microsoft that wouldn't be the case.
ASKER
It also happens that I can find about 15 copies of the MSVCRT.DLL file on my computer with dates from 10/4/97 to 1/14/05 in various folders. Could any of those replace the current one?
Bob
Bob
MSCRT refers to "Microsoft Visual C RunTime". The Windows operating system, in all its various versions, installs a "Visual Basic" and "Visual C" Runtime. Both are the programming languages used to build the various Windows component files, and the idea is that having these common "platforms" in place avoids the necessity for every program to include them. The designers build their program around the assumption that their program is "Windows Compatible", and that these components will be present to interpret, decode, and run the program files built in that programming language.
Both programming languages have gone through different versions and the "Runtime" files need to keep up with programs written in those versions. For instance, for Windows to run a program built in Visual Basic version 5, the Visual basic 5 runtime has to be installed on that computer. Each different version of Windows replaced the Visual C and Visual Basic Runtime files with more recent ones, but Windows 98 First and 2nd editions are now a little outdated for programs written in the most recent versions of Visual C and Visual Basic. It's highly unlikely that the version of MSVCRT.DLL currently in place on your computer is the original version installed by Win98. If you installed Office 2000, then a step like that could have updated the versions. An upgrade step to any version of Internet Explorer higher than that originally installed by your version of Windows will usually have updated the "runtime" files. That's what I was referring to when I said that some installers include versions of these runtimes in case the recipient computer has versions pre-dating the version packaged.
The "linked to missing export whatever" error message stems from the fact that these files are shared files because of the resources within them. That's what DLL means - Dynamic Link Library - because it is a library of resources. When a program calls for a DLL file, it is actually calling for the use of a specific resource within that file, and calls for it by name. If the file called is of an incompatible version, then the named resource either won't be in that file, or can't be located because it is in the wrong place. The error messages are classic ones relating to "Version Conflicts", and can usually be resolved by implanting the correct version of that file.
All I can say is that the installation routine for that driver is quite badly written. A good routine will first check the installed versions, and only update the files that exist as previous versions. DON'T go by the DATES of these files when checking them. Look at the VERSION listed under the tab of that name in the Properties dialog.
OK, so you say you have about 15 instances of the file MSVCRT.DLL on your computer. The one that will be in current use is the one in your "C:\Windows\System" folder. All programs will be able to access and use this file if they haven't chosen to place their own copy in the program folder created by installation of that program. A program will usually use such a file if it finds it in the same folder as the executable from which the program runs. If it doesn't exist, then it will look for the "Shared" one in the system folder.
When considering the files currently on your hard drive, discount the ones in the following folders from consideration:
C:\WINDOWS\WINNT32
C:\PROGRAM FILES\<program name>\
Also ignore found files named MSVCRTxx.DLL, where the "xx" is a number like "20".
There are a few folders where the previously installed file may have been backed up into, and from where you will probably be able to restore it:
C:\WINDOWS\VCM
C:\WINDOWS\SYSBCKUP
You have provided the strongest clue about what version your MSVCRT.DLL file would have been before this event by quoting the two files referenced by errors, ie. MSVCP60.DLL and MSCIRT.DLL. It would seem that these files have remained as they were, and haven't been updated. Do a File search for MSVCP60.DLL and then Right-Click on the one it finds in the C:\Windows\System folder. Choose "Properties", and look at the version number up at the top of the "version" tab. You can scroll over that number and use the Ctrl and C keys together to copy it, then use the Ctrl and V keys to paste it into Notepad or here. It will probably be a version number something like 6.00.8972.0. Do the same for MSCIRT.DLL and you should find that the version will probably be version 6 also (eg. 6.00.8168.0). That being the case, we can deduce that the previous MSVCRT.DLL was undoubtedly also version 6.
Start Menu > "Run" option > and type VCMUI > click "OK".
The "Version Conflict Manager" window should open as 4 columns:
File Name, Backup Date, Backup Version, and Current Version.
Scroll down and see if MSVCRT.DLL is shown.
You know the "Backup Date", and you should be looking for a "Backup Version" starting with 6.
Judging by the version of this same file in the downloaded driver package I linked to, the "Current Version" will probably show as a Version 5 number like 5.00.7022.
If that IS the case, then you have your Backup file, and can restore it by selecting it and clicking "Restore Selected Files". You should always reboot after doing this.
IF, for some reason like a report of "file currently in use", you are prevented from restoring the backed up file version from the VCM window, try shutting down and then catching the Boot Menu with the F8 key at restart, then enter Safe Mode and try again.
Hopefully this will restore functionality without errors. Subsequent updated versions of these "runtimes" are generally "backward compatible" with older versions. In other words, not only do they include the old resources, but the newer ones are added into them and the file sizes are always larger the more recent the version.
It is really annoying that you should have ended up with this problem through installing a driver file. The programmers should be shot for taking shortcuts with version checks.
Let us know how you get on with this.
Both programming languages have gone through different versions and the "Runtime" files need to keep up with programs written in those versions. For instance, for Windows to run a program built in Visual Basic version 5, the Visual basic 5 runtime has to be installed on that computer. Each different version of Windows replaced the Visual C and Visual Basic Runtime files with more recent ones, but Windows 98 First and 2nd editions are now a little outdated for programs written in the most recent versions of Visual C and Visual Basic. It's highly unlikely that the version of MSVCRT.DLL currently in place on your computer is the original version installed by Win98. If you installed Office 2000, then a step like that could have updated the versions. An upgrade step to any version of Internet Explorer higher than that originally installed by your version of Windows will usually have updated the "runtime" files. That's what I was referring to when I said that some installers include versions of these runtimes in case the recipient computer has versions pre-dating the version packaged.
The "linked to missing export whatever" error message stems from the fact that these files are shared files because of the resources within them. That's what DLL means - Dynamic Link Library - because it is a library of resources. When a program calls for a DLL file, it is actually calling for the use of a specific resource within that file, and calls for it by name. If the file called is of an incompatible version, then the named resource either won't be in that file, or can't be located because it is in the wrong place. The error messages are classic ones relating to "Version Conflicts", and can usually be resolved by implanting the correct version of that file.
All I can say is that the installation routine for that driver is quite badly written. A good routine will first check the installed versions, and only update the files that exist as previous versions. DON'T go by the DATES of these files when checking them. Look at the VERSION listed under the tab of that name in the Properties dialog.
OK, so you say you have about 15 instances of the file MSVCRT.DLL on your computer. The one that will be in current use is the one in your "C:\Windows\System" folder. All programs will be able to access and use this file if they haven't chosen to place their own copy in the program folder created by installation of that program. A program will usually use such a file if it finds it in the same folder as the executable from which the program runs. If it doesn't exist, then it will look for the "Shared" one in the system folder.
When considering the files currently on your hard drive, discount the ones in the following folders from consideration:
C:\WINDOWS\WINNT32
C:\PROGRAM FILES\<program name>\
Also ignore found files named MSVCRTxx.DLL, where the "xx" is a number like "20".
There are a few folders where the previously installed file may have been backed up into, and from where you will probably be able to restore it:
C:\WINDOWS\VCM
C:\WINDOWS\SYSBCKUP
You have provided the strongest clue about what version your MSVCRT.DLL file would have been before this event by quoting the two files referenced by errors, ie. MSVCP60.DLL and MSCIRT.DLL. It would seem that these files have remained as they were, and haven't been updated. Do a File search for MSVCP60.DLL and then Right-Click on the one it finds in the C:\Windows\System folder. Choose "Properties", and look at the version number up at the top of the "version" tab. You can scroll over that number and use the Ctrl and C keys together to copy it, then use the Ctrl and V keys to paste it into Notepad or here. It will probably be a version number something like 6.00.8972.0. Do the same for MSCIRT.DLL and you should find that the version will probably be version 6 also (eg. 6.00.8168.0). That being the case, we can deduce that the previous MSVCRT.DLL was undoubtedly also version 6.
Start Menu > "Run" option > and type VCMUI > click "OK".
The "Version Conflict Manager" window should open as 4 columns:
File Name, Backup Date, Backup Version, and Current Version.
Scroll down and see if MSVCRT.DLL is shown.
You know the "Backup Date", and you should be looking for a "Backup Version" starting with 6.
Judging by the version of this same file in the downloaded driver package I linked to, the "Current Version" will probably show as a Version 5 number like 5.00.7022.
If that IS the case, then you have your Backup file, and can restore it by selecting it and clicking "Restore Selected Files". You should always reboot after doing this.
IF, for some reason like a report of "file currently in use", you are prevented from restoring the backed up file version from the VCM window, try shutting down and then catching the Boot Menu with the F8 key at restart, then enter Safe Mode and try again.
Hopefully this will restore functionality without errors. Subsequent updated versions of these "runtimes" are generally "backward compatible" with older versions. In other words, not only do they include the old resources, but the newer ones are added into them and the file sizes are always larger the more recent the version.
It is really annoying that you should have ended up with this problem through installing a driver file. The programmers should be shot for taking shortcuts with version checks.
Let us know how you get on with this.
Oh yes, and one more thing. It would be wise, assuming that you are able to restore the backed-up version of MSVCRT.DLL, to make a copy of this file in some neutral backup folder such as a new temporary folder named C:\MSVCRT
My reasoning is that, if you subsequently uninstall the drivers, the process might try to remove this file from your C:\Windows\System folder. It is unlikely, but you never know. If that DID transpire, you could then boot into DOS from the "Command prompt" option on the F8 Boot Menu, and type the command:
copy c:\msvcrt\msvcrt.dll c:\windows\system\MSVCRT.D
The power down and restart the computer.
It is quite a common thing during uninstallation of a program to encounter messages informing you that "the following shared file is no longer being used", and you are asked "do you want to keep this shared file". This is often completely wrong and the shared file IS needed by another program, or even by Windows itself, so the best practice is to KEEP the shared file. Watch the wording though, because some may ask "do you want to get rid of this shared file", in which case the "Yes" button does the opposite action.
My reasoning is that, if you subsequently uninstall the drivers, the process might try to remove this file from your C:\Windows\System folder. It is unlikely, but you never know. If that DID transpire, you could then boot into DOS from the "Command prompt" option on the F8 Boot Menu, and type the command:
copy c:\msvcrt\msvcrt.dll c:\windows\system\MSVCRT.D
The power down and restart the computer.
It is quite a common thing during uninstallation of a program to encounter messages informing you that "the following shared file is no longer being used", and you are asked "do you want to keep this shared file". This is often completely wrong and the shared file IS needed by another program, or even by Windows itself, so the best practice is to KEEP the shared file. Watch the wording though, because some may ask "do you want to get rid of this shared file", in which case the "Yes" button does the opposite action.
ASKER
Bill,
I might have misunderstood how to use VCMUI but it looked like I didn't need to enter anything but VCMUI with no additional parameters and it would display files with version conflicts. When I did so, there was no display even mentioning MSVCRT.DLL. Where do I go from here?
Bob
I might have misunderstood how to use VCMUI but it looked like I didn't need to enter anything but VCMUI with no additional parameters and it would display files with version conflicts. When I did so, there was no display even mentioning MSVCRT.DLL. Where do I go from here?
Bob
VCMUI just means "Version Conflict Manager in User Interface" mode, ie. it just loads a listing of the files in the C:\Windows\System\VCM folder.
Take a look in the other folder commonly used for backups, namely C:\Windows\SYSBCKUP and see if MSVCRT.DLL is in there. If so, check the version.
Take a look in the other folder commonly used for backups, namely C:\Windows\SYSBCKUP and see if MSVCRT.DLL is in there. If so, check the version.
ASKER
Other than the problem of identifying a version number that will properly match my system is there any reason that once the proper MSVCRT.DLL file is identified, it cannot simply be copied into the SYSTEM folder and reboot?
In C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM is MSVCRT.DLL – it’s actually version 5.00.7128
In C:\WINDOWS\SYSBACK is only MSVCRT20.DLL version 2.0.11.000.
Shouldn’t the TBS Montego II installation CD have copied the current functional version in use of MSVCRT.DLL into the SYSBACK folder before it replaced it with version 5.00.7128?
Among the remaining 14 other copies of MSVCRT.DLL on my hard drive are versions:
6.10.8924.0
6.10.8293.0
6.00.8797.0
6.00.8397.0
6.00.8337.0
I presume that the latest version of the MSVCRT.DLL file is - 6.10.8924.0 – although that one resides in a folder D:\Program Files\options investigator 1\program\xtras.
Does the fact that these reside in folders being used by other programs prevent their use in the SYSTEM folder?
The notifications that I had of files, apparently, needing MSVCRT.DLL on boot up are the following:
Their versions in the SYSTEM folder are:
MSVCIRT.DLL which is version 6.10.8637.0 (on boot up the system made the request twice).
MSVCP60.DLL which is version 6.00.8168.0
I’m not withholding information but I thought I had better inform you in case it is important that on boot up, in addition to the 3 error messages we have discussed, I am also receiving 2 additional error messages that I thought might be able to be corrected by finally supplying the proper MSVCRT.DLL file in the SYSTEM folder or reinstalling a program. These messages state:
“A device attached to the system is not functioning: C:\Palm\hotsync.exe”
“Run-time error ‘48’ File Not Found FP4032.DLL”
However, I was able to find that file in the C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM folder but an attempt to find its version number on the fp4032.dll Properties box has no version tab
Bob
In C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM is MSVCRT.DLL – it’s actually version 5.00.7128
In C:\WINDOWS\SYSBACK is only MSVCRT20.DLL version 2.0.11.000.
Shouldn’t the TBS Montego II installation CD have copied the current functional version in use of MSVCRT.DLL into the SYSBACK folder before it replaced it with version 5.00.7128?
Among the remaining 14 other copies of MSVCRT.DLL on my hard drive are versions:
6.10.8924.0
6.10.8293.0
6.00.8797.0
6.00.8397.0
6.00.8337.0
I presume that the latest version of the MSVCRT.DLL file is - 6.10.8924.0 – although that one resides in a folder D:\Program Files\options investigator 1\program\xtras.
Does the fact that these reside in folders being used by other programs prevent their use in the SYSTEM folder?
The notifications that I had of files, apparently, needing MSVCRT.DLL on boot up are the following:
Their versions in the SYSTEM folder are:
MSVCIRT.DLL which is version 6.10.8637.0 (on boot up the system made the request twice).
MSVCP60.DLL which is version 6.00.8168.0
I’m not withholding information but I thought I had better inform you in case it is important that on boot up, in addition to the 3 error messages we have discussed, I am also receiving 2 additional error messages that I thought might be able to be corrected by finally supplying the proper MSVCRT.DLL file in the SYSTEM folder or reinstalling a program. These messages state:
“A device attached to the system is not functioning: C:\Palm\hotsync.exe”
“Run-time error ‘48’ File Not Found FP4032.DLL”
However, I was able to find that file in the C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM folder but an attempt to find its version number on the fp4032.dll Properties box has no version tab
Bob
ASKER
Sorry those version numbers didn't line up.
Bob
Bob
>>> "...is there any reason that once the proper MSVCRT.DLL file is identified, it cannot simply be copied into the SYSTEM folder and reboot?" <<<
Yes, there are potential issues, although doing so would possibly work out OK. If the file was in use by Windows, it may well not allow itself to be renamed or replaced and you would have to do this from DOS before the system booted to Windows. DLL files should also really be "registered". This is normally performed without your knowledge by the program file named REGSVR32.EXE. You can, however register a DLL by typing the following command into the Start Menu's "Run" box:
regsvr32 drive:\path_to\filename.dl
regsvr32 c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
The other potential issue would be if you ever had need to scan your system with the "System File Configuration" utility (SFC.EXE). This is used to identify damaged, missing, wrong, or corrupt versions of files originally installed by Windows, and can be set to automatically retrieve them from the Windows CD and place them in the correct folder. This action not only creates backups in so doing (C:\Windows\Helpdesk\SFC folder), but updates a database of file versions, sizes, etc of currently installed system files. An out-of-date database can flag up false finds in SFC and may also cause version confusion if it is consulted by installers or by Windows for various purposes.
>>> "Shouldn’t the TBS Montego II installation CD have copied the current functional version in use of MSVCRT.DLL into the SYSBACK folder before it replaced it with version 5.00.7128?" <<<
I properly written installer routine should have recognised that a more recent version of the file was already in place, and not even tried to replace it with an older version. If not, then the ideal alternative would have been as you say, but sadly not all of them are perfect, hence the intervention of the "Version Conflict manager" that then put the ball in your court and asked YOU to make the decision.
I am puzzled why your system finds so many instances of MSVCRT.DLL, and can only assume that they are all contained in the setup files on your other partition, and/or within the folders created by currently-installed programs.
>>> "Does the fact that these reside in folders being used by other programs prevent their use in the SYSTEM folder?" <<<
No, not necessarily. If you run an installed program named PROG.EXE written in Visual C version 6, it needs a Visual C "runtime" to work. It will usually use the runtime file(s) from the same folder as PROG.EXE, and only look for the compatible shared runtime in the System folder if one doesn't exist in its own folder. Again though, not all programs run in the same way.
>>> "I presume that the latest version of the MSVCRT.DLL file is 6.10.8924.0" <<<
I wouldn't even like to hazard a guess about this. There have been so many sub-versions released that probably only a programmer would know the answer to that. I mentioned earlier that the "runtime DLL's" are usually "backward compatible", so in theory you could transplant the most recent version available, and it would then serve programs written to require older runtime versions as well as ones that need more recent versions. You mentioned "MSVCRT20.DLL", which you have found to be version 2.0. This is the exception to "backward compatibility" because those very early versions are only in place for very old programs, and were written as specific versions that stopped at the version indicated by the number in the file name. Forget about "MSVCRT20.DLL" for now.
The other miscellaneous errors at boot are most likely directly attributable to the fact that they were expecting to use resources provided by the previous DLL version. Not only do .EXE files call on DLL's, but DLL's call on each other. So the fact that a DLL was reported as "not found" can simply mean that the complex series of calls has been broken at some stage in the chain of commands being passed around. I am quite sure once you are able to get the correct file version in place, these errors will go away.
Perhaps there is a clue there in that "hotsync.exe" error. I wonder whether reinstalling the Palm Sync software on top of itself might restore the previous version. From that error message, it certainly seems that "hotsync.exe" is not being able to run at startup because it doesn't have the correct runtime available.
This has developed into a grand fiasco through what should have been a simple and problem-free driver installation. It is hardly your fault for being faced with an instant decision to make in the middle of the installation. Let's try and get this problem fixed so we can resume trying to solve the original one.
1. Insert your Win98 CD and hold the Shift key to stop it autorunning.
2. Start Menu > RUN > and type SFC > click OK
3. Extract one file from the installation CD option
4. Type the name msvcrt.dll into the field provided, and click "Start"
5. "Restore From" field > click "Browse" and navigate to the "win98" folder of the Windows CD
6. "Save File In" field > click "Browse" and navigate to the C:\Windows\System folder
7. Click OK
8. Reboot when it finishes.
If that doesn't remedy the problem, then try the following:
1. Make a copy of the current C:\Windows\System\MSVCRT.D
2. Create an empty folder eg. "C:\RUNTIMES" (name it 8 characters or less)
3. Do a file search again for "msvcrt.dll"
4. Check the properties for the oldest file version and write it down as eg. "1 = 5.00.7122"
5. Copy it to the new desktop folder, and then rename it as "01.DLL".
6. Repeat this action for all the different file versions and name them sequentially as "02.DLL", "03.DLL", etc, from older to newer version, taking a physical note of the version number of each renamed file.
7. Start Menu > RUN > and type MSCONFIG > click OK > click the "advanced" button > tick "Enable Startup Menu" > click "Apply" > click OK > Say Yes when prompted to reboot.
The F8 Boot Menu will show now at every boot.
8. Arrow down to "Command prompt" and press "Enter".
9. When it stops at the C:\> prompt, type the command:
copy c:\runtimes\01.dll c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
10. Accept the prompt asking you if you want to replace the file. (it's OK, because you have the backup as msvcrt.OLD).
11. Power off, and then back on again. Press <enter> when the boot menu shows with "Normal Windows Mode" already selected.
If it still issues the same errors, then restart in DOS Mode again, but this time copy the 2nd most recent file version as msvcrt.dll to see if that works ie.
copy c:\runtimes\02.dll c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
IF the system boots without errors, you will know the version number needed by these programs that are causing errors.
IF you CAN'T resolve it this way after trying all the versions of msvcrt.dll available to you, then we will have to consider the next available options, so please let us know your results.
Yes, there are potential issues, although doing so would possibly work out OK. If the file was in use by Windows, it may well not allow itself to be renamed or replaced and you would have to do this from DOS before the system booted to Windows. DLL files should also really be "registered". This is normally performed without your knowledge by the program file named REGSVR32.EXE. You can, however register a DLL by typing the following command into the Start Menu's "Run" box:
regsvr32 drive:\path_to\filename.dl
regsvr32 c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
The other potential issue would be if you ever had need to scan your system with the "System File Configuration" utility (SFC.EXE). This is used to identify damaged, missing, wrong, or corrupt versions of files originally installed by Windows, and can be set to automatically retrieve them from the Windows CD and place them in the correct folder. This action not only creates backups in so doing (C:\Windows\Helpdesk\SFC folder), but updates a database of file versions, sizes, etc of currently installed system files. An out-of-date database can flag up false finds in SFC and may also cause version confusion if it is consulted by installers or by Windows for various purposes.
>>> "Shouldn’t the TBS Montego II installation CD have copied the current functional version in use of MSVCRT.DLL into the SYSBACK folder before it replaced it with version 5.00.7128?" <<<
I properly written installer routine should have recognised that a more recent version of the file was already in place, and not even tried to replace it with an older version. If not, then the ideal alternative would have been as you say, but sadly not all of them are perfect, hence the intervention of the "Version Conflict manager" that then put the ball in your court and asked YOU to make the decision.
I am puzzled why your system finds so many instances of MSVCRT.DLL, and can only assume that they are all contained in the setup files on your other partition, and/or within the folders created by currently-installed programs.
>>> "Does the fact that these reside in folders being used by other programs prevent their use in the SYSTEM folder?" <<<
No, not necessarily. If you run an installed program named PROG.EXE written in Visual C version 6, it needs a Visual C "runtime" to work. It will usually use the runtime file(s) from the same folder as PROG.EXE, and only look for the compatible shared runtime in the System folder if one doesn't exist in its own folder. Again though, not all programs run in the same way.
>>> "I presume that the latest version of the MSVCRT.DLL file is 6.10.8924.0" <<<
I wouldn't even like to hazard a guess about this. There have been so many sub-versions released that probably only a programmer would know the answer to that. I mentioned earlier that the "runtime DLL's" are usually "backward compatible", so in theory you could transplant the most recent version available, and it would then serve programs written to require older runtime versions as well as ones that need more recent versions. You mentioned "MSVCRT20.DLL", which you have found to be version 2.0. This is the exception to "backward compatibility" because those very early versions are only in place for very old programs, and were written as specific versions that stopped at the version indicated by the number in the file name. Forget about "MSVCRT20.DLL" for now.
The other miscellaneous errors at boot are most likely directly attributable to the fact that they were expecting to use resources provided by the previous DLL version. Not only do .EXE files call on DLL's, but DLL's call on each other. So the fact that a DLL was reported as "not found" can simply mean that the complex series of calls has been broken at some stage in the chain of commands being passed around. I am quite sure once you are able to get the correct file version in place, these errors will go away.
Perhaps there is a clue there in that "hotsync.exe" error. I wonder whether reinstalling the Palm Sync software on top of itself might restore the previous version. From that error message, it certainly seems that "hotsync.exe" is not being able to run at startup because it doesn't have the correct runtime available.
This has developed into a grand fiasco through what should have been a simple and problem-free driver installation. It is hardly your fault for being faced with an instant decision to make in the middle of the installation. Let's try and get this problem fixed so we can resume trying to solve the original one.
1. Insert your Win98 CD and hold the Shift key to stop it autorunning.
2. Start Menu > RUN > and type SFC > click OK
3. Extract one file from the installation CD option
4. Type the name msvcrt.dll into the field provided, and click "Start"
5. "Restore From" field > click "Browse" and navigate to the "win98" folder of the Windows CD
6. "Save File In" field > click "Browse" and navigate to the C:\Windows\System folder
7. Click OK
8. Reboot when it finishes.
If that doesn't remedy the problem, then try the following:
1. Make a copy of the current C:\Windows\System\MSVCRT.D
2. Create an empty folder eg. "C:\RUNTIMES" (name it 8 characters or less)
3. Do a file search again for "msvcrt.dll"
4. Check the properties for the oldest file version and write it down as eg. "1 = 5.00.7122"
5. Copy it to the new desktop folder, and then rename it as "01.DLL".
6. Repeat this action for all the different file versions and name them sequentially as "02.DLL", "03.DLL", etc, from older to newer version, taking a physical note of the version number of each renamed file.
7. Start Menu > RUN > and type MSCONFIG > click OK > click the "advanced" button > tick "Enable Startup Menu" > click "Apply" > click OK > Say Yes when prompted to reboot.
The F8 Boot Menu will show now at every boot.
8. Arrow down to "Command prompt" and press "Enter".
9. When it stops at the C:\> prompt, type the command:
copy c:\runtimes\01.dll c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
10. Accept the prompt asking you if you want to replace the file. (it's OK, because you have the backup as msvcrt.OLD).
11. Power off, and then back on again. Press <enter> when the boot menu shows with "Normal Windows Mode" already selected.
If it still issues the same errors, then restart in DOS Mode again, but this time copy the 2nd most recent file version as msvcrt.dll to see if that works ie.
copy c:\runtimes\02.dll c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
IF the system boots without errors, you will know the version number needed by these programs that are causing errors.
IF you CAN'T resolve it this way after trying all the versions of msvcrt.dll available to you, then we will have to consider the next available options, so please let us know your results.
ASKER
In reviewing your post one question arises from looking at the SFC processing of the, I presume, .cab files to extract a particular msvcrt.dll file and place it in the SYSTEM folder. It seems to me that if you were referring to the Windows Installation CD which I would think, since those files date from around 1999 when I received it, wouldn’t be able to update to more “recent” times. Am I wrong?
I’m all for your statement:
“Let’s try to get this problem fixed so that we can resume trying to solve the original one.”
I don’t know whether I have a valid way around the current DLL problem but your material stimulated some thinking so let me run this by you:
I make periodic backups and have found a drive image backup of my C: drive dated 7/705 which preceded my discussions with you and the attempted installation of the Sound card. From that backup I have retrieved a C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\msvcrt.d
So, I’d appreciate your review of the following set of steps to see if that is a correct process to try to solve my msvcrt.dll problem:
1. While at the DOS command prompt type in:
copy c:\Windows\System\msvcrt.d
followed by <Enter>
2. In Windows copy the msvcrt.dll file retrieved from my image backup into a newly created folder C:\RUNTIMES.
3. Since, at this time, I need the Startup menu only once, I can press the <CTRL> key at the appropriate time in my boot up to reach the command prompt.
4. At the DOS command prompt type:
c:\Runtimes\msvcrt.dll c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
followed by <Enter>
5. Power off and then back on and it should boot back up into Windows. As it is doing that it will become apparent whether, at least, some of those error messages due to earlier version of msvcrt.dll are still appearing.
6. Hopefully, then, back to the Sound card.
And another question:
You stated, in answer to my question about simply copying a proper version of msvcrt.dll into the SYSTEM folder in the Windows environment that it “would possibly work out OK.” So my question is whether the rather simple copying of that correct version of msvcrt.dll directly into the System folder wouldn’t be worthwhile to avoid a lot of extra work or would the complications of doing so, if it didn’t work out, be so bad that it wouldn’t be worth the risk?
Bob
I’m all for your statement:
“Let’s try to get this problem fixed so that we can resume trying to solve the original one.”
I don’t know whether I have a valid way around the current DLL problem but your material stimulated some thinking so let me run this by you:
I make periodic backups and have found a drive image backup of my C: drive dated 7/705 which preceded my discussions with you and the attempted installation of the Sound card. From that backup I have retrieved a C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\msvcrt.d
So, I’d appreciate your review of the following set of steps to see if that is a correct process to try to solve my msvcrt.dll problem:
1. While at the DOS command prompt type in:
copy c:\Windows\System\msvcrt.d
followed by <Enter>
2. In Windows copy the msvcrt.dll file retrieved from my image backup into a newly created folder C:\RUNTIMES.
3. Since, at this time, I need the Startup menu only once, I can press the <CTRL> key at the appropriate time in my boot up to reach the command prompt.
4. At the DOS command prompt type:
c:\Runtimes\msvcrt.dll c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
followed by <Enter>
5. Power off and then back on and it should boot back up into Windows. As it is doing that it will become apparent whether, at least, some of those error messages due to earlier version of msvcrt.dll are still appearing.
6. Hopefully, then, back to the Sound card.
And another question:
You stated, in answer to my question about simply copying a proper version of msvcrt.dll into the SYSTEM folder in the Windows environment that it “would possibly work out OK.” So my question is whether the rather simple copying of that correct version of msvcrt.dll directly into the System folder wouldn’t be worthwhile to avoid a lot of extra work or would the complications of doing so, if it didn’t work out, be so bad that it wouldn’t be worth the risk?
Bob
That sounds very promising, Bob, and that file version would seem to hold the key to success. Fingers crossed.
Your steps 1 to 5 are perfect (and step 6 is confident), except for step No. 4 where you forgot to precede the command line with "copy". The command should have been:
copy c:\runtimes\msvcrt.dll c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
The main reason for doing this copying in DOS is that the .DLL file will not be loaded into memory as Windows boots, and which may otherwise issue error messages and refuse to copy the file. I can't see that any damage or corruption would occur if you just tried copying the file while in Windows, but I doubt that Windows would allow you to rename the .DLL to .OLD. If you were prevented from renaming the existing .DLL, then I doubt whether Windows would allow you to copy and overwrite the existing one. I know DOS is a nuisance, but I find it the best way to avoid these situations.
If you prefer, you could copy the following text, paste it into Notepad, and save with a file name like "NewDll.TXT" into your C:\Runtimes folder. Right-Click on your new .TXT file, and rename it "NewDll.BAT". Just accept the usual warning about renaming file types. All you would then have to do after booting into DOS would be to type:
c:\runtimes\newdll
and press the <enter> key
------------- start of text to copy (DON'T copy this line) -------------
@echo off
copy c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
copy msvcrt.dll c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
EXIT
------------- end of text to copy (DON'T copy this line) -------------
The name used for the intermediate temporary folder "runtimes" isn't important (especially if you ran the above batch file from it). I just used a suitable name that was 8 characters and would allow you to type this in DOS without having to use abbreviated names as is an annoyance with DOS.
Your assumption about the actual dates of files restored from the Windows CD would usually be true, but the version number is the important part. I normally wouldn't have suggested this, as I would have assumed the file would have been a much older version than the one you currently have installed. I was surprised, however, to discover that the file version of MSVCRT.DLL extracted from MY Windows 98se CD is actually 6.00.8397.0 !! I don't know what the version would be from a Win98 First Edition CD, but I expected the version to be the older version 5.x. In any event, seeing as you have a backup named msvcrt.OLD, you are in the position to try out a few versions of this DLL file and still revert back to the original (albeit apparently incompatible) version by renaming it back to msvcrt.dll again if this doesn't work.
You say that you have a "Drive Image" of your C Drive. This is a VERY valuable backup, and restoring it would be an excellent way of reverting back to the pre-problem stage if the DLL replacement doesn't work.
Go for it !! Copy the DLL file you retrieved from the backup. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.
Bill
Your steps 1 to 5 are perfect (and step 6 is confident), except for step No. 4 where you forgot to precede the command line with "copy". The command should have been:
copy c:\runtimes\msvcrt.dll c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
The main reason for doing this copying in DOS is that the .DLL file will not be loaded into memory as Windows boots, and which may otherwise issue error messages and refuse to copy the file. I can't see that any damage or corruption would occur if you just tried copying the file while in Windows, but I doubt that Windows would allow you to rename the .DLL to .OLD. If you were prevented from renaming the existing .DLL, then I doubt whether Windows would allow you to copy and overwrite the existing one. I know DOS is a nuisance, but I find it the best way to avoid these situations.
If you prefer, you could copy the following text, paste it into Notepad, and save with a file name like "NewDll.TXT" into your C:\Runtimes folder. Right-Click on your new .TXT file, and rename it "NewDll.BAT". Just accept the usual warning about renaming file types. All you would then have to do after booting into DOS would be to type:
c:\runtimes\newdll
and press the <enter> key
------------- start of text to copy (DON'T copy this line) -------------
@echo off
copy c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
copy msvcrt.dll c:\windows\system\msvcrt.d
EXIT
------------- end of text to copy (DON'T copy this line) -------------
The name used for the intermediate temporary folder "runtimes" isn't important (especially if you ran the above batch file from it). I just used a suitable name that was 8 characters and would allow you to type this in DOS without having to use abbreviated names as is an annoyance with DOS.
Your assumption about the actual dates of files restored from the Windows CD would usually be true, but the version number is the important part. I normally wouldn't have suggested this, as I would have assumed the file would have been a much older version than the one you currently have installed. I was surprised, however, to discover that the file version of MSVCRT.DLL extracted from MY Windows 98se CD is actually 6.00.8397.0 !! I don't know what the version would be from a Win98 First Edition CD, but I expected the version to be the older version 5.x. In any event, seeing as you have a backup named msvcrt.OLD, you are in the position to try out a few versions of this DLL file and still revert back to the original (albeit apparently incompatible) version by renaming it back to msvcrt.dll again if this doesn't work.
You say that you have a "Drive Image" of your C Drive. This is a VERY valuable backup, and restoring it would be an excellent way of reverting back to the pre-problem stage if the DLL replacement doesn't work.
Go for it !! Copy the DLL file you retrieved from the backup. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.
Bill
ASKER
I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but I was studying our previous conversations because it seemed that there were several points that I might not have made clear since in your discussion of those points you seemed to be reporting a few items that I had not thought I actually said and I want to correct this to help your analysis. Some of these points refer to the Sound Recorder, the .wav files, and my Multimedia Properties box.
But before going further, I will tell you that the replacement of that earlier version msvcrt.dll file by its 6.10.8637.0 version has seemed to correct all of those error messages I was getting, including the Palm/hotsync.exe error. On rebooting I even had the HotSync system tray icon back and, at least, although I have not performed a hotsync, it "looks" like it should be able to be completed properly. And, one other thing, is it my imagination that the computer seems to be functioning back to its pre-wrong version msvcrt.dll level (which probably ain't too much to brag about anyway)? It does seem a bit less sluggish.
Since I presume that I had a "successful" reinstallation of my Sound card except for the incorrect msvcrt.dll file - at least it now shows the same listings in the Device Manager - and now I have corrected the msvcrt.dll file problem, I would think that if my audio problems related to a Sound card malfunction, that should have been corrected, too. However, I still have the same set of audio problems I listed originally. so I would conclude - please corrrect me if I am wrong or have left something out - 1) that some settings (somewhere?) are incorrect, in which case those clarifications I listed in the first paragraph that I wanted to send you, might be useful, and 2) those clarifications might be useful on general principles or 3) I still don't have a properly installed Sound card.
Thank you.
Bob
But before going further, I will tell you that the replacement of that earlier version msvcrt.dll file by its 6.10.8637.0 version has seemed to correct all of those error messages I was getting, including the Palm/hotsync.exe error. On rebooting I even had the HotSync system tray icon back and, at least, although I have not performed a hotsync, it "looks" like it should be able to be completed properly. And, one other thing, is it my imagination that the computer seems to be functioning back to its pre-wrong version msvcrt.dll level (which probably ain't too much to brag about anyway)? It does seem a bit less sluggish.
Since I presume that I had a "successful" reinstallation of my Sound card except for the incorrect msvcrt.dll file - at least it now shows the same listings in the Device Manager - and now I have corrected the msvcrt.dll file problem, I would think that if my audio problems related to a Sound card malfunction, that should have been corrected, too. However, I still have the same set of audio problems I listed originally. so I would conclude - please corrrect me if I am wrong or have left something out - 1) that some settings (somewhere?) are incorrect, in which case those clarifications I listed in the first paragraph that I wanted to send you, might be useful, and 2) those clarifications might be useful on general principles or 3) I still don't have a properly installed Sound card.
Thank you.
Bob
That seems very promising progress, Bob, but what an unnecessary interruption that sound card driver installation has caused.
I am going to copy the full question, examine the areas of proposed change, and post what I hope is a concise and methodical outline of the settings to check. Hopefully we can eliminate them in turn, and establish where the problem lies.
I'll post back later.
I am going to copy the full question, examine the areas of proposed change, and post what I hope is a concise and methodical outline of the settings to check. Hopefully we can eliminate them in turn, and establish where the problem lies.
I'll post back later.
ASKER
That may have been an unnecessary interruption, but I think I learned a lot in that process. Bill, thanks for your patience.
That's how I learned a deeper insight and interest in computing too, Bob. It may not be fun at the time, but it all helps some time down the road when other things go wrong.
Thanks for YOUR patience. It's not easy standing by waiting for suggestions dictated by geographic time differences and other commitments, and I have to apologise for not being able to dedicate as much time to this as I had hoped. I have a few things on right now, and it may take a couple of days for me to rewrite a step-by-step troubleshooter.
Meantime, perhaps you could provide a brief status report of what functions are available, and what ones aren't, eg. addressing each point-by-point as below :
1. Playback of the file types .wav, mp3, wma, wmv, mpg, avi, asf, mid, and mov files stored on hard drive.
(include default player that opens, and any error messages)
2. Playback of multimedia file types (including RealAudio and the audio content of Flash) via Internet connection.
3. Functionality of the interactive conferencing system (Centra 7).
4. Audio feedback through speakers and earphones when in "record" mode using SoundRecorder.
5. Ability to record voice with microphone using SoundRecorder, and then save file as .WAV file.
6. Preview button availability in the properties dialogs of .wav, mid, and avi files.
These details will help to target specific problem areas that might be down to configuration settings only.
Bill
Thanks for YOUR patience. It's not easy standing by waiting for suggestions dictated by geographic time differences and other commitments, and I have to apologise for not being able to dedicate as much time to this as I had hoped. I have a few things on right now, and it may take a couple of days for me to rewrite a step-by-step troubleshooter.
Meantime, perhaps you could provide a brief status report of what functions are available, and what ones aren't, eg. addressing each point-by-point as below :
1. Playback of the file types .wav, mp3, wma, wmv, mpg, avi, asf, mid, and mov files stored on hard drive.
(include default player that opens, and any error messages)
2. Playback of multimedia file types (including RealAudio and the audio content of Flash) via Internet connection.
3. Functionality of the interactive conferencing system (Centra 7).
4. Audio feedback through speakers and earphones when in "record" mode using SoundRecorder.
5. Ability to record voice with microphone using SoundRecorder, and then save file as .WAV file.
6. Preview button availability in the properties dialogs of .wav, mid, and avi files.
These details will help to target specific problem areas that might be down to configuration settings only.
Bill
Oh, and one other point:
7. Availability of all the sliders in the standard Windows Volume Control.
Remember you had problems with the microphone slider being muted after certain activities?
7. Availability of all the sliders in the standard Windows Volume Control.
Remember you had problems with the microphone slider being muted after certain activities?
ASKER
Your question 1:
1. Playback of the file types .wav, mp3, wma, wmv, mpg, avi, asf, mid, and mov files stored on hard drive.
(include default player that opens, and any error messages)
I tried to figure out a 3 x 8 table in Word format but it was taking me so long to do it that I will just give you this material in a less elegant form but basically conforming to this format:
File type Default Player
Note:
And when I say a file’s default player is WMP9 that means that it will play (or try to play) in that program but my notes will give additional information about the same file.
.wav Default player is WMP9
but remember that when I tried to Preview this type of file in the Sound Properties box, it gave me the msg:
“Windows cannot play the C:\WINDOWS\media\ding.wav (or any other .wav file there). It may be damaged or may not be a valid sound file. Replace the file and try again.” (But the same file did play in WMP9.)
And when I tried to open the .wav file in the Sound Recorder, it displayed the sound in the line display and activated the beginning and end buttons and also allowed the slider to function in moving back and forth but no audio was heard.
.mp3 Default player is WMP9
Note: This file type has played in RealPlayer and MusicMatch in the past but when I began to have my audio problems, these files would not play in RealPlayer10 but did in WMP9
.wma Default player is WMP9
Note: This plays only an audio track
.wmv Default player is WMP9
Note: This plays both audio and animation – a movie
.mpg Default player is WMP9
Note: Only one of the files, when clicked on, WMP9 opens and displays the following msg:
“The file you are attempting to play has an extension that does not match the file format. Playing the file may result in unexpected behavior. Do you want the player to try to play this file?”
If I click yes it goes ahead and plays a poor quality video but sound is audible
The remaining .mpg files that I had did play a somewhat better video and sound track could be heard
.asf Default player is WMP9
Note: Plays both animation and audio
.avi Default player is WMP9
Note: Some of the .avi files seem to be just audio playing and some are videos with animation and audio
.mid Default “player” is WMP9
Note: No sound or animation played although its progress bar moved to the right.
.mov Default player is Quick Time
Note: One of the .mov files gave a msg:
“Some of the file types associated with Quick Time applications are currently associated with other applications. Should I restore these file type associations?”
But the rest of my .mov files gave animations where the audio could not be heard.
Well, I hope what I've said accurately reports what I've found. I will add the answers to your other questions as I proceed.
Bob
1. Playback of the file types .wav, mp3, wma, wmv, mpg, avi, asf, mid, and mov files stored on hard drive.
(include default player that opens, and any error messages)
I tried to figure out a 3 x 8 table in Word format but it was taking me so long to do it that I will just give you this material in a less elegant form but basically conforming to this format:
File type Default Player
Note:
And when I say a file’s default player is WMP9 that means that it will play (or try to play) in that program but my notes will give additional information about the same file.
.wav Default player is WMP9
but remember that when I tried to Preview this type of file in the Sound Properties box, it gave me the msg:
“Windows cannot play the C:\WINDOWS\media\ding.wav (or any other .wav file there). It may be damaged or may not be a valid sound file. Replace the file and try again.” (But the same file did play in WMP9.)
And when I tried to open the .wav file in the Sound Recorder, it displayed the sound in the line display and activated the beginning and end buttons and also allowed the slider to function in moving back and forth but no audio was heard.
.mp3 Default player is WMP9
Note: This file type has played in RealPlayer and MusicMatch in the past but when I began to have my audio problems, these files would not play in RealPlayer10 but did in WMP9
.wma Default player is WMP9
Note: This plays only an audio track
.wmv Default player is WMP9
Note: This plays both audio and animation – a movie
.mpg Default player is WMP9
Note: Only one of the files, when clicked on, WMP9 opens and displays the following msg:
“The file you are attempting to play has an extension that does not match the file format. Playing the file may result in unexpected behavior. Do you want the player to try to play this file?”
If I click yes it goes ahead and plays a poor quality video but sound is audible
The remaining .mpg files that I had did play a somewhat better video and sound track could be heard
.asf Default player is WMP9
Note: Plays both animation and audio
.avi Default player is WMP9
Note: Some of the .avi files seem to be just audio playing and some are videos with animation and audio
.mid Default “player” is WMP9
Note: No sound or animation played although its progress bar moved to the right.
.mov Default player is Quick Time
Note: One of the .mov files gave a msg:
“Some of the file types associated with Quick Time applications are currently associated with other applications. Should I restore these file type associations?”
But the rest of my .mov files gave animations where the audio could not be heard.
Well, I hope what I've said accurately reports what I've found. I will add the answers to your other questions as I proceed.
Bob
Bob
File associations can be a bit of a nuisance when you particularly wish a certain multimedia file type to play through something other than Media Player. It is also complicated, as you have found out, by the fact that other non-microsoft media applications (realplayer, musicmatch jukebox, quicktime, etc) try and assume control over them.
Your associations are pretty much all associated with Media Player at the moment, and the .MOV file type (and the message you see being issued by Quicktime) are normal.
I have been checking my registry in depth to see if the absence of a registry setting might be the cause of the non-functional "preview" option, and other miscellaneous problems. Unfortunately, because of the fact that .WAV files can be embedded as "objects" within other documents and applications (eg. background sound in an email or web page), the registry is quite a maze of settings - particularly when considering .WAV files.
The matter is further complicated by installation of CD-Burning applications which usually install some kind of audio playback and editing function to clean up and modify audio files prior to burning to CD. In my case, Roxio/Adaptec Easy CD Creator installs such a "sound editor", and I notice that it takes over the default (ie. the double-click) action for several file formats, and restoring the associations from eg. Media Player's options leaves a lot of backup settings.
My first instinct, rather than messing around with registry modifications that could potentially mess up other settings, would be to install Windows 98 right on top of itself again (ie. back to the C:\Windows folder rather than any other suggested alternative folder). That would then entail reinstalling more recent "upgrade" applications such as Media Player 9 and running Windows Update again. You would probably have to reinstall Microsoft Office if it is a more recent version than Office 97, but your actual data (ie. the documents and files you have created and saved) is invariably left safe and untouched.
Reinstalling Windows 98 over itself always knocks DirectX back to version 6 again, so that would be another thing that would have to be reinstalled after doing so.
A reinstall of Windows would be best done by booting to a Windows 98 boot floppy, choosing "with CD-Rom support", and then running "setup.exe" from the CD. This often restores file associations such as those for .WAV files back to the Windows default, but not always. The reason is that a dirty reinstall consults existing registry settings so that it can retain as many of your custom settings, and other program settings, with as little modification as is possible.
The alternative here might be restoring the backup "image" of your C Drive IF you know that your system was stable and fully functional at the time the image was created. The problem with that would be that you would most certainly lose all data that YOU had created SINCE that image was made. I assume your backup image was created with DriveImage or Ghost, and these utilities wipe the partition/drive that is being restored.
I will try and see if I can draw up a .REG file that could be imported into your existing registry, and which might restore the original functionality before the problem, but it would have to be a very generic one because I have no idea what YOUR registry might contain as it stands now.
Sorry for the delays here, but I am conscious of the fact that the last apparently simple task became a bit of an unexpected nightmare, and I would seek to avoid such a repetition of this.
I am going to ask you to "export" some parts of your registry to text-based files so that I can examine them and modify them to correct problem areas that might exist, but posting .reg files here would:
1. Take up an immense amount of space
2. The formatting sometimes gets messed up when pasting into this web page.
Do you have web space into which you could upload files for me/us to then download and examine?
While it is generally frowned upon to liaise by email outwith the confines of an Experts-Exchange question, this might be the most appropriate method for exchanging .reg files until this matter is resolved as long as I provide full feedback into this question with progress and observations. I believe that this would be permissible given the fact that I am the only expert currently participating here (although I know for a fact that blue_zee will be watching every post :-). IF, and ONLY IF, you have no problems with your anonymity and engaging briefly in a few emailed attachments, please let me know this and I can post details of which registry keys i would need to see as exported files, and you could then email them as attachments to the hotmail address detailed at the end of my profile.
Bill
File associations can be a bit of a nuisance when you particularly wish a certain multimedia file type to play through something other than Media Player. It is also complicated, as you have found out, by the fact that other non-microsoft media applications (realplayer, musicmatch jukebox, quicktime, etc) try and assume control over them.
Your associations are pretty much all associated with Media Player at the moment, and the .MOV file type (and the message you see being issued by Quicktime) are normal.
I have been checking my registry in depth to see if the absence of a registry setting might be the cause of the non-functional "preview" option, and other miscellaneous problems. Unfortunately, because of the fact that .WAV files can be embedded as "objects" within other documents and applications (eg. background sound in an email or web page), the registry is quite a maze of settings - particularly when considering .WAV files.
The matter is further complicated by installation of CD-Burning applications which usually install some kind of audio playback and editing function to clean up and modify audio files prior to burning to CD. In my case, Roxio/Adaptec Easy CD Creator installs such a "sound editor", and I notice that it takes over the default (ie. the double-click) action for several file formats, and restoring the associations from eg. Media Player's options leaves a lot of backup settings.
My first instinct, rather than messing around with registry modifications that could potentially mess up other settings, would be to install Windows 98 right on top of itself again (ie. back to the C:\Windows folder rather than any other suggested alternative folder). That would then entail reinstalling more recent "upgrade" applications such as Media Player 9 and running Windows Update again. You would probably have to reinstall Microsoft Office if it is a more recent version than Office 97, but your actual data (ie. the documents and files you have created and saved) is invariably left safe and untouched.
Reinstalling Windows 98 over itself always knocks DirectX back to version 6 again, so that would be another thing that would have to be reinstalled after doing so.
A reinstall of Windows would be best done by booting to a Windows 98 boot floppy, choosing "with CD-Rom support", and then running "setup.exe" from the CD. This often restores file associations such as those for .WAV files back to the Windows default, but not always. The reason is that a dirty reinstall consults existing registry settings so that it can retain as many of your custom settings, and other program settings, with as little modification as is possible.
The alternative here might be restoring the backup "image" of your C Drive IF you know that your system was stable and fully functional at the time the image was created. The problem with that would be that you would most certainly lose all data that YOU had created SINCE that image was made. I assume your backup image was created with DriveImage or Ghost, and these utilities wipe the partition/drive that is being restored.
I will try and see if I can draw up a .REG file that could be imported into your existing registry, and which might restore the original functionality before the problem, but it would have to be a very generic one because I have no idea what YOUR registry might contain as it stands now.
Sorry for the delays here, but I am conscious of the fact that the last apparently simple task became a bit of an unexpected nightmare, and I would seek to avoid such a repetition of this.
I am going to ask you to "export" some parts of your registry to text-based files so that I can examine them and modify them to correct problem areas that might exist, but posting .reg files here would:
1. Take up an immense amount of space
2. The formatting sometimes gets messed up when pasting into this web page.
Do you have web space into which you could upload files for me/us to then download and examine?
While it is generally frowned upon to liaise by email outwith the confines of an Experts-Exchange question, this might be the most appropriate method for exchanging .reg files until this matter is resolved as long as I provide full feedback into this question with progress and observations. I believe that this would be permissible given the fact that I am the only expert currently participating here (although I know for a fact that blue_zee will be watching every post :-). IF, and ONLY IF, you have no problems with your anonymity and engaging briefly in a few emailed attachments, please let me know this and I can post details of which registry keys i would need to see as exported files, and you could then email them as attachments to the hotmail address detailed at the end of my profile.
Bill
ASKER
OK, I understand what you are saying above but I'm single minded so let me get this out of the way before I respond directly to your last post.
You may have moved beyond your set of questions but to complete my answer to your question 1, I removed WMP9 as the default to those file types to see what the system responses would be and the resulting answers changed (at least for me) in interesting ways, particularly in the .wav and the .mpg and .avi, and the .mid file type responses:
.wav Now defaults to the following sequence:
Note: There is an immediate message saying:
“Another application is playing audio. You can either interrupt the application or wait until it is done. Then try using Sound Recorder again.”
The Sound Recorder also had appeared at the same time as this message. The only problem was that I had not been using the Sound Recorder. I couldn’t explore this Sound Recorder until I had clicked on the OK button of that message.
At that time the Sound Recorder was seen to have the display of the recorded sound of the .wav file I had clicked on but only the Beginning and End, and the Slider buttons were active. As the Slider was moved back and forth the recorded sound wave could be seen displayed. I didn’t otherwise explore the status of this Sound Recorder at this time since one of your other question in this set will look at this.
In any event no sound could be heard with this example of the called Sound Recorder.
.mid Now default is TDK Digital Mixmaster
Note: When the .mid file is clicked,the TDK Digital Mixmaster interface appears (looks like a watch) and this is immediately followed by the appearance of an Open dialog box allowing a search, apparently, for that .mid file. When the drop down box showing the files that are able to be run, it does not list the .mid file but has an “All files” listing. When that is chosen, it is then possible to find the .mid file in the display of the accessible files. However, if I then chose the .mid file that I had originally selected and clicked on the Open button to, specifically, “open” it, all that happened is that the Open dialog box disappeared bringing the TDK Digital Mixmaster face forward again but no sound was heard or animation displayed.
.mpg, .avi, Now default player is Microsoft®ActiveMovies™
Note: This shows animation and audio and it may be my imagination but its presentation, both sound and video, seems a little crisper. I don’t believe I have seen this player before.
It also seems able to display more than one file at the same time (at least 2 audio tracks are playing at the same time when I clicked on another one while the last one was playing) but only one animation.
With that out of the way should I just go ahead and give my response to your last post?
There is other information I believe you need to be sure you don't want to alter what you said in that post.
Bob
You may have moved beyond your set of questions but to complete my answer to your question 1, I removed WMP9 as the default to those file types to see what the system responses would be and the resulting answers changed (at least for me) in interesting ways, particularly in the .wav and the .mpg and .avi, and the .mid file type responses:
.wav Now defaults to the following sequence:
Note: There is an immediate message saying:
“Another application is playing audio. You can either interrupt the application or wait until it is done. Then try using Sound Recorder again.”
The Sound Recorder also had appeared at the same time as this message. The only problem was that I had not been using the Sound Recorder. I couldn’t explore this Sound Recorder until I had clicked on the OK button of that message.
At that time the Sound Recorder was seen to have the display of the recorded sound of the .wav file I had clicked on but only the Beginning and End, and the Slider buttons were active. As the Slider was moved back and forth the recorded sound wave could be seen displayed. I didn’t otherwise explore the status of this Sound Recorder at this time since one of your other question in this set will look at this.
In any event no sound could be heard with this example of the called Sound Recorder.
.mid Now default is TDK Digital Mixmaster
Note: When the .mid file is clicked,the TDK Digital Mixmaster interface appears (looks like a watch) and this is immediately followed by the appearance of an Open dialog box allowing a search, apparently, for that .mid file. When the drop down box showing the files that are able to be run, it does not list the .mid file but has an “All files” listing. When that is chosen, it is then possible to find the .mid file in the display of the accessible files. However, if I then chose the .mid file that I had originally selected and clicked on the Open button to, specifically, “open” it, all that happened is that the Open dialog box disappeared bringing the TDK Digital Mixmaster face forward again but no sound was heard or animation displayed.
.mpg, .avi, Now default player is Microsoft®ActiveMovies™
Note: This shows animation and audio and it may be my imagination but its presentation, both sound and video, seems a little crisper. I don’t believe I have seen this player before.
It also seems able to display more than one file at the same time (at least 2 audio tracks are playing at the same time when I clicked on another one while the last one was playing) but only one animation.
With that out of the way should I just go ahead and give my response to your last post?
There is other information I believe you need to be sure you don't want to alter what you said in that post.
Bob
TDK Digital Mixmaster appears to be a plugin that has been downloaded and installed independently of WMP9 or any previous versions:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/bonuspack/skins.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/bonuspack/default.aspx
http://download.microsoft.com/download/winmediaplayer/BPk/XP/WXP/EN-US/WMBonusXP.exe
These are the kind of additional aspects that can make things a little more complicated, because from what i can see this seems to only have been made available in the Windows Media Bonus Pack for Windows XP. Of course, Microsoft is guilty these days of only indexing internal searches to Windows XP and current application releases, and this makes it difficult to find pages and downloads that apply to Windows 98.
I have a feeling that what you are now witnessing with the file association for the .MID file type is this:
1. You installed the bundled software for your TDK CD-RW drive, and this included one of the "Ahead Nero" versions of their CD-Burning suites. Ahead owns the license for the "Digital Mixmaster" utility, and licenses it to other companies, including TDK and Microsoft (hence the inclusion in the Windows XP Media Bonus pack). The TDK Digital MixMaster is described as :
".....based on Ahead Software's NeroMediaPlayer.....it allows you to rip audio CD's to Wave format (not MP3), create play lists and play most types of audio files".
"......will turn your hard drive into a computer jukebox, with easy-to-create music playlists. On-the-fly decoding converts your computer music files and playlists into play-anywhere CDs quickly and easily".
2. In any event, I suspect that this assumed charge of the .MID file association after installation of the CD Burning software, but Media Player then usurped this file association. Having now relinquished control of the .MID file type, Media Player has allowed it to revert to the previous association.
From what I can see of your .WAV file association, there are two conflicting associations with different programs. I mentioned previously that the registry settings relating to .WAV files are quite complex because of their ability to be inserted into documents as "Controls", and this means that potentially several programs may be fighting for supremacy in opening the file because of the conflicting settings.
Taking a .TXT file as an example, there are a few basic registry settings that create the "Open" action which is Notepad.exe. These are contained in the registry as "Shell", "Verb", and "Command", and should appear as follows (note: this is a simplistic and not entirely accurate construction, but establishes the theory):
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.txt]
[Default]="txtfile"
; this cross-references .txt to txtfile
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\txtfile
[Default]="Text Document"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\txtfile
[Default]="Open"
; this establishes the Default Action or Verb ie the double-click one
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\txtfile
; This is the verb part, and there will be others like Edit under the shell key
; The text here is what will show on the Right-Click menu
[Default]="Open"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\txtfile
; This specifies the command to be executed for the Open action
[Default]="c:\windows\note
It is most usual to ONLY see the Shell/Verb/Command entries under the registry key named after the descriptive part of the file type, ie. the one cross-referenced by the value shown against the key with the dot in it. In other words, NOT directly against eg ".TXT", but under "TXTFILE". Not all programs and utilities abide by this general principle and, as I mentioned earlier, my CD-Burning software has created annoying deviations to several of my multimedia file type associations. Example (simplified again for clarity):
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.wav]
[Default]="soundrec"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.wav\sh
[Default]="open"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.wav\sh
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.wav\sh
[Default]="C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adaptec Shared\Sound Editor\sndedit.exe" "%1"
If I now look at the cross-referenced registry key named "soundrec", I have another set of "Verbs" and "Commands" which are actually the default associations (simplified here again):
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="Wave Sound"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="Play"
; The Play command is what will be used on a double-click
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="Open"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="C:\WINDOWS\sndr
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="Play"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="C:\WINDOWS\sndr
; This command does what it says - opens Sound Recorder,
; Plays the sound, and then closes Sound Recorder again
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="Record"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="C:\WINDOWS\sndr
Fortunately, the latter settings (ie. the ones under the "SoundRec" key) seem to take priority over the ones created by the "Adaptec" ones, otherwise it could be a real mess when i tried to open a .WAV file. I suspect something similar may have happened on your system.
I'm not sure if you know this, but the easiest way to quickly associate a file type with a particular program is as follows:
1. Find a file of that type
2. Hold the SHIFT key and Right-Click on it
3. Select "Open With..."
4. TICK the box that says "Always use this program to open files of this type"
5. Scroll down to the program you wish to associate
6. Double click on that program icon.
The alternative way, without directly editing the registry in Regedit, is:
1. Start > Settings > Folder Options > File Types
2. Scroll down to and select the file type (eg. "Wave Sound")
3. Click the "Edit" button
4. Click on one of the actions.
(a) to modify the command associated with the action, click "Edit"
(b) to make that action the "Default" action, select and click the "Default" button
(c) to create a new action, click "New" > Name the action > browse to the application .exe.
5. In this example, assume option (b) and click "Edit"
6. "Action" will be greyed out, but you would browse to the program .exe to be used.
7. Click OK, then OK again, and finally "Apply" to set the changes.
The problem with this method is that it will not append any additional switches to the command such as /play /close, although you can add these manually in the command field.
What I am trying to explain here in this long explanation is that you seem to have a bit of a mish-mash of file associations, and these MAY be the original source of the problem.
I have a suspicion that this COULD even be attributable to the presence of the CD-Burning software files and settings, although I couldn't be certain. There is only one way that I could know this, and that is by actually seeing some exported registry files from your system.
Regarding the "ActiveMovies" media output when you play .mpg and .avi file formats, this is something enabled by ActiveX which is installed by default in Windows 98 and upgraded by application installations (WMP9 and others) and also through Windows Update. It allows "streaming" of multimedia content whereby it can be transmitted in real time from a web server rather than the entire file having to be downloaded to the host computer first. The .ASF file type is optimized for this "streaming".
To my knowledge, these file types should simply play in the standard WMP interface UNLESS being streamed through an internet connection of from a web page. As far as I was aware, the only time you would see the ActiveMovie "Control" would be during this type of online streaming of multimedia content, but I could be wrong. The only thing I can think is that one of the other Media Players (eg. QuickTime, RealPlayer, one installed by CD-Burning applications, or even a Media Player installed by your Sound Card or Graphic Card's additional software) might be supplying this interface because many Media Players can utilize the ActiveMovies Control. Either that, or once again it relates to one of the "shell/verb/commands" in your registry.
Is it something like this screenshot that you are seeing?
http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/en-us/dnaractmov/html/actmovie1_3.gif
I must be honest here and say that there are so many anomalies in the present state of your system that I am finding it very difficult to know what to suggest as a starting point. It is made much more difficult by the medium by which we have to exchange information.
My personal view is that it would be best to uninstall ALL Media Players, including WMP9, QuickTime, RealPlayer, and any other "optional" media players installed by eg. CD-Burning applications, and then reinstall Windows over itself to restore the default file associations with Media Player version 6 (mplayer2.exe) and Sound Recorder (SndRec32.exe).
I would then run Add/Remove Programs > "Windows Setup", and uninstall all optional components related to multimedia.
From there, I would:
1. Reinstall the optional "Windows setup" multimedia components
2. Upgrade DirectX
3. Install WMP9
4. Reinstall the updated audio and video codec packs for WMP9
5. Reinstall QuickTime and RealPlayer if you really need them.
You will get some idea of what "optional components" are uninstallable from such applications as CD-Burning Software by starting off the uninstallation of the application from Control Panel > Add/Remove Components, and lookig for the "Customize", "Modify", or "Add/Remove Components" options. If none of these exist, then just cancel the uninstallation.
Some may be directly uninstallable from separate listings in Add/Remove Programs.
That's all I can really suggest at the moment.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/bonuspack/skins.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/bonuspack/default.aspx
http://download.microsoft.com/download/winmediaplayer/BPk/XP/WXP/EN-US/WMBonusXP.exe
These are the kind of additional aspects that can make things a little more complicated, because from what i can see this seems to only have been made available in the Windows Media Bonus Pack for Windows XP. Of course, Microsoft is guilty these days of only indexing internal searches to Windows XP and current application releases, and this makes it difficult to find pages and downloads that apply to Windows 98.
I have a feeling that what you are now witnessing with the file association for the .MID file type is this:
1. You installed the bundled software for your TDK CD-RW drive, and this included one of the "Ahead Nero" versions of their CD-Burning suites. Ahead owns the license for the "Digital Mixmaster" utility, and licenses it to other companies, including TDK and Microsoft (hence the inclusion in the Windows XP Media Bonus pack). The TDK Digital MixMaster is described as :
".....based on Ahead Software's NeroMediaPlayer.....it allows you to rip audio CD's to Wave format (not MP3), create play lists and play most types of audio files".
"......will turn your hard drive into a computer jukebox, with easy-to-create music playlists. On-the-fly decoding converts your computer music files and playlists into play-anywhere CDs quickly and easily".
2. In any event, I suspect that this assumed charge of the .MID file association after installation of the CD Burning software, but Media Player then usurped this file association. Having now relinquished control of the .MID file type, Media Player has allowed it to revert to the previous association.
From what I can see of your .WAV file association, there are two conflicting associations with different programs. I mentioned previously that the registry settings relating to .WAV files are quite complex because of their ability to be inserted into documents as "Controls", and this means that potentially several programs may be fighting for supremacy in opening the file because of the conflicting settings.
Taking a .TXT file as an example, there are a few basic registry settings that create the "Open" action which is Notepad.exe. These are contained in the registry as "Shell", "Verb", and "Command", and should appear as follows (note: this is a simplistic and not entirely accurate construction, but establishes the theory):
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.txt]
[Default]="txtfile"
; this cross-references .txt to txtfile
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\txtfile
[Default]="Text Document"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\txtfile
[Default]="Open"
; this establishes the Default Action or Verb ie the double-click one
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\txtfile
; This is the verb part, and there will be others like Edit under the shell key
; The text here is what will show on the Right-Click menu
[Default]="Open"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\txtfile
; This specifies the command to be executed for the Open action
[Default]="c:\windows\note
It is most usual to ONLY see the Shell/Verb/Command entries under the registry key named after the descriptive part of the file type, ie. the one cross-referenced by the value shown against the key with the dot in it. In other words, NOT directly against eg ".TXT", but under "TXTFILE". Not all programs and utilities abide by this general principle and, as I mentioned earlier, my CD-Burning software has created annoying deviations to several of my multimedia file type associations. Example (simplified again for clarity):
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.wav]
[Default]="soundrec"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.wav\sh
[Default]="open"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.wav\sh
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.wav\sh
[Default]="C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adaptec Shared\Sound Editor\sndedit.exe" "%1"
If I now look at the cross-referenced registry key named "soundrec", I have another set of "Verbs" and "Commands" which are actually the default associations (simplified here again):
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="Wave Sound"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="Play"
; The Play command is what will be used on a double-click
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="Open"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="C:\WINDOWS\sndr
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="Play"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="C:\WINDOWS\sndr
; This command does what it says - opens Sound Recorder,
; Plays the sound, and then closes Sound Recorder again
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="Record"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\SoundRe
[Default]="C:\WINDOWS\sndr
Fortunately, the latter settings (ie. the ones under the "SoundRec" key) seem to take priority over the ones created by the "Adaptec" ones, otherwise it could be a real mess when i tried to open a .WAV file. I suspect something similar may have happened on your system.
I'm not sure if you know this, but the easiest way to quickly associate a file type with a particular program is as follows:
1. Find a file of that type
2. Hold the SHIFT key and Right-Click on it
3. Select "Open With..."
4. TICK the box that says "Always use this program to open files of this type"
5. Scroll down to the program you wish to associate
6. Double click on that program icon.
The alternative way, without directly editing the registry in Regedit, is:
1. Start > Settings > Folder Options > File Types
2. Scroll down to and select the file type (eg. "Wave Sound")
3. Click the "Edit" button
4. Click on one of the actions.
(a) to modify the command associated with the action, click "Edit"
(b) to make that action the "Default" action, select and click the "Default" button
(c) to create a new action, click "New" > Name the action > browse to the application .exe.
5. In this example, assume option (b) and click "Edit"
6. "Action" will be greyed out, but you would browse to the program .exe to be used.
7. Click OK, then OK again, and finally "Apply" to set the changes.
The problem with this method is that it will not append any additional switches to the command such as /play /close, although you can add these manually in the command field.
What I am trying to explain here in this long explanation is that you seem to have a bit of a mish-mash of file associations, and these MAY be the original source of the problem.
I have a suspicion that this COULD even be attributable to the presence of the CD-Burning software files and settings, although I couldn't be certain. There is only one way that I could know this, and that is by actually seeing some exported registry files from your system.
Regarding the "ActiveMovies" media output when you play .mpg and .avi file formats, this is something enabled by ActiveX which is installed by default in Windows 98 and upgraded by application installations (WMP9 and others) and also through Windows Update. It allows "streaming" of multimedia content whereby it can be transmitted in real time from a web server rather than the entire file having to be downloaded to the host computer first. The .ASF file type is optimized for this "streaming".
To my knowledge, these file types should simply play in the standard WMP interface UNLESS being streamed through an internet connection of from a web page. As far as I was aware, the only time you would see the ActiveMovie "Control" would be during this type of online streaming of multimedia content, but I could be wrong. The only thing I can think is that one of the other Media Players (eg. QuickTime, RealPlayer, one installed by CD-Burning applications, or even a Media Player installed by your Sound Card or Graphic Card's additional software) might be supplying this interface because many Media Players can utilize the ActiveMovies Control. Either that, or once again it relates to one of the "shell/verb/commands" in your registry.
Is it something like this screenshot that you are seeing?
http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/en-us/dnaractmov/html/actmovie1_3.gif
I must be honest here and say that there are so many anomalies in the present state of your system that I am finding it very difficult to know what to suggest as a starting point. It is made much more difficult by the medium by which we have to exchange information.
My personal view is that it would be best to uninstall ALL Media Players, including WMP9, QuickTime, RealPlayer, and any other "optional" media players installed by eg. CD-Burning applications, and then reinstall Windows over itself to restore the default file associations with Media Player version 6 (mplayer2.exe) and Sound Recorder (SndRec32.exe).
I would then run Add/Remove Programs > "Windows Setup", and uninstall all optional components related to multimedia.
From there, I would:
1. Reinstall the optional "Windows setup" multimedia components
2. Upgrade DirectX
3. Install WMP9
4. Reinstall the updated audio and video codec packs for WMP9
5. Reinstall QuickTime and RealPlayer if you really need them.
You will get some idea of what "optional components" are uninstallable from such applications as CD-Burning Software by starting off the uninstallation of the application from Control Panel > Add/Remove Components, and lookig for the "Customize", "Modify", or "Add/Remove Components" options. If none of these exist, then just cancel the uninstallation.
Some may be directly uninstallable from separate listings in Add/Remove Programs.
That's all I can really suggest at the moment.
ASKER
I'm sorry I couldn't get back sooner. Will try to post later this evening.
ASKER
Just to get this out of the way:
You said in reference to ActiveMovie:
“Is it something like this screenshot that you are seeing?
http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/en-us/dnaractmov/html/actmovie1_3.gif”
Yes, that’s the viewer.
I know you’ve spoken of more important material in your last post but please get the next 2 items out of the way:
1) There is one reference throughout this discussion that I would like to clarify for my understanding. You make frequent references to "multimedia" that I want to be sure I understand. To me, it refers, at least on the computer, to the audio and animation components of any presentation.
Question 1:
Does that miss any of your intent?
2) This has bothered me from the beginning: When I click on Start>Settings>Control Panel>click on the Mutlimedia icon to bring up the Mutlimedia Properties box, the “only” thing I see is that box with a single tab (the Devices tab) that is open and displays absolutely nothing. There are also no other spots for checkmarks to enable or disable any other capabilities.
Question 2:
That doesn’t sound normal and should that, or could that, be repaired without the other repairs made to the system?
Question 3:
Would repairing the Multimedia Properties box be of any help with my problems?
OK, now back to the more important material:
I’ve read your suggestions and I realize that you are frustrated by my mess but see if what I’m going to say here will put any better light on it. Your last statement sounds discouraged so I hope it isn’t just my ignorance of how bad things really are that leads me to believe that following might be helpful:
I, honestly, didn’t think I was foisting a problem computer on some “unsuspecting” Expert but only a legitimate set of audio problems and it certainly has those. There are some things I need to tell you so that the proper decisions can be made.
First, I need to tell you that it now takes my computer about 6 minutes to boot up and I’m seeing delays and a lot of hard drive activities that have been increasing as I try to use it..
Next, I had not checked this in much detail (it was on my “to do” list before I started having the audio problems) but when you began to discuss the Registry, I thought I should take a look at my Registry situation in more detail so I ran a program called Registry First Aid and was flabbergasted to find that I have accumulated about 1300 errors of various categories. The kinds of errors that program can detect (but my Registry does not have all of these) are the following:
1. Invalid Paths
2. Invalid Fonts
3. Invalid Help Files
4. Auto Run Programs
5. Invalid Known DLLs
6. Obsolete Start Menu Items
7. Invalid Application Paths
8. Invalid Shared DLLs
9. Unused Software Entries
I don’t know whether these 1300 errors, by themselves, can account for whatever problems you see (with my audio problems nestled among the vipers), but I think it could have a bearing on the difficulties.
The only problem with the Registry First Aid program is that I need more education before properly using it so that I don’t eliminate some Registry entries that might lead to a disabled computer. It does have undo facilities for properly backing up the entries before eliminating them. So my alternative suggestion here on “how to proceed” is that I believe my Registry needs urgent repairs:
Question 4:
Could you recommend a safe Registry Cleaner (or possibly even a set of cleaners) that should be applied to eliminate the Registry errors with no regret on my part that the repairs would lead to bigger problems for having put them into effect?
Question 5:
Could the Registry cleaners suggestion be able to, by itself, eliminate my audio problems or is that just magical thinking?
Before Registry First Aid proceeds to look for Registry errors, it does a Registry scan (I believe by scanreg) and reports that no errors are found. When I restore an earlier Registry via DOS command line “scanreg /restore” command, I am informed that the particular Registry I have chosen is intact or does not contain errors.
Question 6:
How can that information from Scanreg about no Registry errors be correct when these Registry error programs detect varying numbers of what it is calling Registry errors?
The next suggestion I make is based on references you have made to sending you some exported Registry files from my system for your inspection to be able to draw some conclusions about my audio problems. So, let me tell you a bit more about Registry First Aid. Excuse me if you already know this:
It is capable of searching for strings singly and in combinations with ‘and’ and ‘or’ logic and can search for these things in Keys, Values, and Data. It can specify a list of paths to search for corrections, and it can exclude chosen paths to exclude from corrections. So, if you know what I should look for it seems that I should be able to fairly well hone in on the specifics you need. Possibly, Regedit itself can do what is needed anyway but I don't know that.
Question 7:
Would the above described capability make it less painful to find the necessary information you are looking for and make it more feasible?
As I’ve said before I would not refuse to follow advice regarding the reinstallation of Windows 98SE over my current setup but believe I have some legitimate concerns about this that I would like to present before doing it.. In addition that set of recommendations sounded a lot more complicated than my suggestions above.
You have said:
“I must be honest here and say that there are so many anomalies in the present state of your system that I am finding it very difficult to know what to suggest as a starting point. It is made much more difficult by the medium by which we have to exchange information.”
I’m open to any suggestions regarding medium problems, including long distance calls from me but don’t know if they are permissible in this system. I do like the medium for its recordkeeping capabilities, though. If you can suggest a way around the fact that I recognize that my presentations are long-winded, I would certainly try to oblige but I believe that I’m giving you legitimate needed material,.
Thank you
Bob
You said in reference to ActiveMovie:
“Is it something like this screenshot that you are seeing?
http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/en-us/dnaractmov/html/actmovie1_3.gif”
Yes, that’s the viewer.
I know you’ve spoken of more important material in your last post but please get the next 2 items out of the way:
1) There is one reference throughout this discussion that I would like to clarify for my understanding. You make frequent references to "multimedia" that I want to be sure I understand. To me, it refers, at least on the computer, to the audio and animation components of any presentation.
Question 1:
Does that miss any of your intent?
2) This has bothered me from the beginning: When I click on Start>Settings>Control Panel>click on the Mutlimedia icon to bring up the Mutlimedia Properties box, the “only” thing I see is that box with a single tab (the Devices tab) that is open and displays absolutely nothing. There are also no other spots for checkmarks to enable or disable any other capabilities.
Question 2:
That doesn’t sound normal and should that, or could that, be repaired without the other repairs made to the system?
Question 3:
Would repairing the Multimedia Properties box be of any help with my problems?
OK, now back to the more important material:
I’ve read your suggestions and I realize that you are frustrated by my mess but see if what I’m going to say here will put any better light on it. Your last statement sounds discouraged so I hope it isn’t just my ignorance of how bad things really are that leads me to believe that following might be helpful:
I, honestly, didn’t think I was foisting a problem computer on some “unsuspecting” Expert but only a legitimate set of audio problems and it certainly has those. There are some things I need to tell you so that the proper decisions can be made.
First, I need to tell you that it now takes my computer about 6 minutes to boot up and I’m seeing delays and a lot of hard drive activities that have been increasing as I try to use it..
Next, I had not checked this in much detail (it was on my “to do” list before I started having the audio problems) but when you began to discuss the Registry, I thought I should take a look at my Registry situation in more detail so I ran a program called Registry First Aid and was flabbergasted to find that I have accumulated about 1300 errors of various categories. The kinds of errors that program can detect (but my Registry does not have all of these) are the following:
1. Invalid Paths
2. Invalid Fonts
3. Invalid Help Files
4. Auto Run Programs
5. Invalid Known DLLs
6. Obsolete Start Menu Items
7. Invalid Application Paths
8. Invalid Shared DLLs
9. Unused Software Entries
I don’t know whether these 1300 errors, by themselves, can account for whatever problems you see (with my audio problems nestled among the vipers), but I think it could have a bearing on the difficulties.
The only problem with the Registry First Aid program is that I need more education before properly using it so that I don’t eliminate some Registry entries that might lead to a disabled computer. It does have undo facilities for properly backing up the entries before eliminating them. So my alternative suggestion here on “how to proceed” is that I believe my Registry needs urgent repairs:
Question 4:
Could you recommend a safe Registry Cleaner (or possibly even a set of cleaners) that should be applied to eliminate the Registry errors with no regret on my part that the repairs would lead to bigger problems for having put them into effect?
Question 5:
Could the Registry cleaners suggestion be able to, by itself, eliminate my audio problems or is that just magical thinking?
Before Registry First Aid proceeds to look for Registry errors, it does a Registry scan (I believe by scanreg) and reports that no errors are found. When I restore an earlier Registry via DOS command line “scanreg /restore” command, I am informed that the particular Registry I have chosen is intact or does not contain errors.
Question 6:
How can that information from Scanreg about no Registry errors be correct when these Registry error programs detect varying numbers of what it is calling Registry errors?
The next suggestion I make is based on references you have made to sending you some exported Registry files from my system for your inspection to be able to draw some conclusions about my audio problems. So, let me tell you a bit more about Registry First Aid. Excuse me if you already know this:
It is capable of searching for strings singly and in combinations with ‘and’ and ‘or’ logic and can search for these things in Keys, Values, and Data. It can specify a list of paths to search for corrections, and it can exclude chosen paths to exclude from corrections. So, if you know what I should look for it seems that I should be able to fairly well hone in on the specifics you need. Possibly, Regedit itself can do what is needed anyway but I don't know that.
Question 7:
Would the above described capability make it less painful to find the necessary information you are looking for and make it more feasible?
As I’ve said before I would not refuse to follow advice regarding the reinstallation of Windows 98SE over my current setup but believe I have some legitimate concerns about this that I would like to present before doing it.. In addition that set of recommendations sounded a lot more complicated than my suggestions above.
You have said:
“I must be honest here and say that there are so many anomalies in the present state of your system that I am finding it very difficult to know what to suggest as a starting point. It is made much more difficult by the medium by which we have to exchange information.”
I’m open to any suggestions regarding medium problems, including long distance calls from me but don’t know if they are permissible in this system. I do like the medium for its recordkeeping capabilities, though. If you can suggest a way around the fact that I recognize that my presentations are long-winded, I would certainly try to oblige but I believe that I’m giving you legitimate needed material,.
Thank you
Bob
Hi Bob
>>> "I honestly didn’t think I was foisting a problem computer on some "unsuspecting" Expert" <<< :-)
Some problems that appear complicated can be fixed through a simple configuration setting, but others that appear simple may have deeper problems. Most experts (and members) here would love it if all problems fell into the first category, but experts have to be prepared for elusive problems as well. Your problem has fallen into that second category, as it transpires. We are all "unsuspecting" as we first read and respond to any question, because we don't know at the outset how it will develop.
Sorry if my discouraged tone came across in that last comment. Any frustration I have is with the fact that I would love to just sit down in front of your PC and grapple with it physically. That's what I meant about "this medium", which doesn't support the use of screenshots or attachments. It is probably better that way, or those functions would end up being abused or over-used if they existed. Don't for one minute assume that my frustrations are directed at you, or are suggestive of any lack of ability on your part. You have followed advice in a methodical and cautious manner, and have the ability to foresee potential problems that surpasses many members who ask questions in Experts-Exchange. I wish there were a lot more like you in that respect. "Ability" and technical prowess extends a long way past simply knowing about something from a previous encounter with it. Intuition and reasoning are equally important.
>>> "I recognize that my presentations are long-winded" <<<
:-) So are mine !!
Registry Cleaners? I'm undecided on that one. There are utilities designed to try and present an easy-to-understand interface for the user, but I don't think you can safely use ANY utility that modifies the registry without some knowledge of what the modification is likely to do if allowed. The same is largely true of utilities designed to rid a system of spyware, but there is a major difference. The Anti-Spyware utilities work on a database of known problems, and are therefore targeted at known registry settings. They therefore will offer to remove settings that relate to very specific problems, whereas a general registry cleaner works on a broader spectrum.
There are SOME "all-in-one" utilities that are deliberately designed to report a huge number of supposed "problems" when run. In some cases this is a deliberate ploy to encourage users to buy the "professional version" or "upgrade", while others are so badly written that they actually identify themselves as errors needing fixed. There are many Anti-Spyware utilities that are a combination of both, and would try and delete themselves if allowed. Unless you are able to see and save a report without committing to a "fix", and then have enough knowledge of the registry to know which reported problems ARE genuine problems, then I would have to say that they should be avoided.
My guess is that your "Registry First Aid" report probably comprises 95% "insignificant" data entries. The remaining 5% of those 1,300 "errors" will probably relate to wrong settings that could be causing a slow boot, but which otherwise cause no serious problems. All computers have some erroneous or redundant entries left in the registry from previous programs that didn't remove everything when later uninstalled.
The type of "errors" reported that probably refer to these left-overs are: Invalid Paths, Invalid Help Files, Invalid Known DLL's, Obsolete Start Menu Items, Invalid Application Paths, Invalid Shared DLLs, and Unused Software Entries. The specific error types reported by Registry First Aid that possibly DO matter, are the ones described as Invalid Fonts and possibly also Auto Run Programs - depending on whether the program just reports current startup programs, or is telling you about wrong ones being loaded as Windows starts up. An excessive number of installed fonts or corrupt fonts CAN cause a slow boot, because they are all checked out during boot.
The quickest way to check for things that are failing or causing abnormal delay during boot is to download the following stanalone "Bootlog Text Analyzer" utility. Press F8 during boot, and choose the "Logged" option from the Boot Menu. Now unzip BLA.EXE from the download to any folder and double-click on it. Click the "Start" button of the utility's dialog, and OK the informational message that appears. After it loads C:\Bootlog.txt, click the "Load Failures" filter and then do a File > Save As > BootFails.txt. Untick the "Failures" filter, and tick the "Show Delays" filter. Save the results as "BootDelays.txt". The first file will normally be small enough to copy and paste here, but the delays results might be too long. If there is any mention of failure to load fonts, then that could be what is causing your long boot time. I am quite sure that any font problem cannot be attributed to your current problems, but it might show details of something that IS related.
Back to your "Registry First Aid" report. The Windows 98 registry is contained in the files USER.DAT and SYSTEM.DAT. These files are not editable in a standard text editor, so Regedit was created to present the data in a logical and accessible interface. Being databases, they can become corrupted just like any database. Those are the errors that scanreg.exe (DOS version) and Scanregw.exe (Windows version) identify as "registry errors". If you opened either file in a text editor, pressed the space-bar a few times at random places, and then saved the file, you would have a corrupt registry that Scanreg would identify as such and advise you to restore one of the backups. Scanreg ignores the vast majority of orphan settings or command lines that point to files which no longer exist. They are insignificant as far as Scanreg is concerned, but 3rd-party registry fix utilities report everything, no matter how insignificant.
The next time you open a Word document, and then close and delete it, that document's name is stored in the registry as a Most Recently Used (MRU) file so that it appears at the bottom of the Word "File" Menu. The fact that the file no longer exists presents no problems to your system, but one of those registry fix utilities will identify it amongst the thousands of other "errors", so being able to identify the reported errors that matter. It's similar to what you encountered when asked "do you want to keep or overwrite this file", and you had to make a decision without any available advice. A lot of uninstallers identify "shared files that are no longer in use" and, unless you know what the file is and does, you can end up removing a file that IS still needed.
Scanreg.exe and Scanregw.exe take their instructions from scanreg.ini. This is what tells scanreg to keep 5 backups, what files to save in these backups, to optimize the registry to remove empty space, and other actions.
One of the command-line (from DOS) options for Scanreg (DOS version only) is : scanreg /fix. This should really be run only from FULL DOS, and generally what this does is remove bad formatting and other such things that have made the registry corrupt. In the same way that Anti-Spyware identifies known and specific egistry entries, Scanreg works on very specific guidelines, and won't rectify bad entries left by 3rd-party software. Microsoft, Symantec/Norton, Nero, and many other software vendors have had to write "cleanup" utilities left behind by their own software, and I would tend to regard these as the only absolutely safe registry fixers you will get, because they target only their own registry settings.
Here is a very good page that discusses SCANREG options that is worth reading, and probably printing:
http://www.cadinfo.net/editorial/winsysutilsl.htm
Related Microsoft pages:
How to Manually Restore the Windows 98 Registry:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q221512/
Command Line Switches for Scanreg.exe:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q184023/
Description of SCANREG.EXE:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q183887/
How to Customize Scanreg Settings (scanreg.ini):
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q183603/
Registry Backup Not Listed in scanreg.exe /restore option:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q182841/
The amount of conventional memory required by scenreg.exe is determined by the size of the two .DAT files that make up the registry. Scenreg.exe may require 580 KB or more of free conventional memory to complete a scanreg /fix repair process. If you encounter an "Out of Memory" error message, optimize your free conventional memory.
"Extended Memory" is required for scenreg.exe to work properly. It will not run without hanging (or without errors) from the Safe Mode Command Prompt Only boot option. The exception to this is the scanreg /restore command, which is the only Scanreg function that can run without extended memory memory.
How to Increase Conventional Memory for MS-DOS-Based Programs:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/134399/EN-US/
Note: The registry comprises index-structured files. Every entry has a secondary role in facilitating the indexing of other entries. When an entry is "deleted", its space is still there to fulfil this indexing role and the .DAT files don't shrink. That is the purpose of the scanreg /opt command, ie. to "optimize" it. In Windows 98, the backups made once a day are optimized to remove empty space.
How to manually compact (defragment) the registry from DOS:
http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/registry.htm
(Scroll down to the section header "Compacting the registry", but read the rest of the page as well).
More details here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q131352/
http://www.eolsoft.com/freeware/registry_jumper/regedit_switches.htm
To finish off my response to your queries about the registry, the ONLY registry cleaner I use is one created by the Microsoft Team for Windows 95 (but which works well in Windows 98) :
RegClean.exe version 4.1a.7364.1
http://windows.about.com/library/regclean.exe
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download458.html
ftp://ftp.swcp.com/pub/pc/win95/regclean.exe
Create a new folder C:\REGCLEAN and unzip the contents of the self-extracting zip file "regclean.exe" into it. You only need the regclean.exe program file and the readme.txt files, delete the "aodist.exe" file as it only relates to Win95. You can now delete the self-extracting package you downloaded.
Make a new registry backup first:
1. Start Menu > RUN > and type SCANREGW > click OK
2. You will be told that the registry has already been backed up today, but choose to create another one. Note the time and date.
Run the program:
3. Double-click on (or make a shortcut to) regclean.exe and wait until it reports that there are any errors found.
4. Click the "Fix Errors" button and close RegClean if it stays open.
5. Go immediately to your C:\REGCLEAN folder and you will see a new .reg file named
"Undo <date> <time>.reg". Right-Click and rename it using the date, eg
"15102005.reg" or "151005.reg". Avoid any spaces or dots in the filename, you want it to be DOS compliant ie. with 8 characters or less in the file name.
To see what changes were made, you can Right-Click > Edit the .REG file and view it in Notepad, but it will probably all be gobbledegook to you. RegClean looks for "orphan" (redundant) or wrongly cross-referenced SYSTEM registry entries, and deletes them. It DOES NOT weed out old entries left by 3rd-party utilities unless they fall into specific system categories, so it is limited but slightly safer than other wonder utilities. The renamed .REG file is your backup, and can be IMPORTED back into your registry in two ways if you experience problems:
1. Windows - Right-Click > "Merge"
2. DOS - Change directory to the C:\Windows folder and type the command (using the name of the file as given in the example above):
regedit c:\regclean\151005.reg
IF, for some reason, you encounter errors or problems after running RegClean, just merge the .reg file back to the registry from Windows or DOS. If the system doesn't boot after the next shutdown, boot to "Command Prompt" from the F8 Boot Menu and first use the DOS command above to restore ONLY the registry entries that RegClean deleted.
To restore the registry backup you created with the SCANREGW.EXE action before you ran RegClean, just type the command:
scanreg /restore
from the DOS Prompt, and choose the backup with the time and date that you noted when you created it.
OK, that's the registry taken care of. No harm in trying RegClean as long as you print out the notes and follow them. It will certainly clean out a lot of old or wrong entries, but doesn't always get it right.
>>>
"You make frequent references to "multimedia" that I want to be sure I understand".
<<<
I refer to any file type that provides audio or video feedback as a "multimedia" file. I would also refer to a PowerPoint presentation containing a video and macromedia Flash animations as "multimedia" in nature.
My references to multimedia-related SETTINGS, PROGRAMS, or LISTINGS covers anything that relates to audio or video support, eg. Audio/Video Compression Codecs, Sample Sounds, Macromedia Flash, Volume Control, etc. Most Windows processes that involve the accessing of multimedia hardware or software are started and run through the MCI API. "API" means "Application Program Interface", and is a standardised set of routines present in Windows which application developers can utilise. "MCI" means "Media Control Interface", and is one of the Windows API's which is devoted to accessing the multimedia devices. "Device" here can be a hardware OR software device. Supported multimedia devices include waveform-audio devices, MIDI sequencers, CD audio devices, digital-video (video playback) devices, etc.
Most commands are channelled through one system DLL file, namely C:\Windows\System\MMCI.DLL
To get a clearer picture of all the files in your system related to MultiMedia support, do file searches for *mci.* and *mm*.*
The version of MMCI.DLL on my Win98SE system is 4.03.2200 dated 23 April 1999 Time 22:22:00. This is the original file installed from my CD, and would be the same one that would be restored if I ran the System File Checker (Start > Run > SFC > OK) and chose to restore only that file from my CD.
Maybe you should try extracting a fresh copy of MMCI.DLL from your CD just in case you have a corrupt file causing some problems.
One thing that I feel you SHOULD install is the:
"Windows Driver Model (WDM) Audio Update for Windows 98 Second Edition"
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=242937
Some soundcard drivers include this update and do a version check to see if it is required. If it is needed, and isn't already installed, they usually prompt you to install it. I have a feeling that your soundcard drivers don't package this update, although it might well be on the CD under a sub-folder named "Redist" (redistributables).
I don't see a direct download link for this package on the Microsoft page above, and it looks as though it will only be made available through Windows Update, but here is an independently-hosted installer package to download:
http://www.tacktech.com/pub/microsoft/win98se/242937usa8.exe
To tell if it is already installed, here are the file versions installed :
3/21/2000 8:34:03pm 4.10.2223 137,312 Kmixer.sys
3/21/2000 8:34:03pm 4.10.2223 169,376 Portcls.sys
3/21/2000 8:34:04pm 4.10.2224 41,568 Usbaudio.sys
3/21/2000 8:34:04pm 4.10.2225 69,120 Wdmaud.sys
Alternatively, run MSINFO32 from the Start Menu's "Run" option, and open out the left pane to the section: Software Environment > Software Updates > W98.SE and it should be listed as "Windows 98 Second Edition Q242937 update".
Try this update first and see if it makes any difference.
Bill
>>> "I honestly didn’t think I was foisting a problem computer on some "unsuspecting" Expert" <<< :-)
Some problems that appear complicated can be fixed through a simple configuration setting, but others that appear simple may have deeper problems. Most experts (and members) here would love it if all problems fell into the first category, but experts have to be prepared for elusive problems as well. Your problem has fallen into that second category, as it transpires. We are all "unsuspecting" as we first read and respond to any question, because we don't know at the outset how it will develop.
Sorry if my discouraged tone came across in that last comment. Any frustration I have is with the fact that I would love to just sit down in front of your PC and grapple with it physically. That's what I meant about "this medium", which doesn't support the use of screenshots or attachments. It is probably better that way, or those functions would end up being abused or over-used if they existed. Don't for one minute assume that my frustrations are directed at you, or are suggestive of any lack of ability on your part. You have followed advice in a methodical and cautious manner, and have the ability to foresee potential problems that surpasses many members who ask questions in Experts-Exchange. I wish there were a lot more like you in that respect. "Ability" and technical prowess extends a long way past simply knowing about something from a previous encounter with it. Intuition and reasoning are equally important.
>>> "I recognize that my presentations are long-winded" <<<
:-) So are mine !!
Registry Cleaners? I'm undecided on that one. There are utilities designed to try and present an easy-to-understand interface for the user, but I don't think you can safely use ANY utility that modifies the registry without some knowledge of what the modification is likely to do if allowed. The same is largely true of utilities designed to rid a system of spyware, but there is a major difference. The Anti-Spyware utilities work on a database of known problems, and are therefore targeted at known registry settings. They therefore will offer to remove settings that relate to very specific problems, whereas a general registry cleaner works on a broader spectrum.
There are SOME "all-in-one" utilities that are deliberately designed to report a huge number of supposed "problems" when run. In some cases this is a deliberate ploy to encourage users to buy the "professional version" or "upgrade", while others are so badly written that they actually identify themselves as errors needing fixed. There are many Anti-Spyware utilities that are a combination of both, and would try and delete themselves if allowed. Unless you are able to see and save a report without committing to a "fix", and then have enough knowledge of the registry to know which reported problems ARE genuine problems, then I would have to say that they should be avoided.
My guess is that your "Registry First Aid" report probably comprises 95% "insignificant" data entries. The remaining 5% of those 1,300 "errors" will probably relate to wrong settings that could be causing a slow boot, but which otherwise cause no serious problems. All computers have some erroneous or redundant entries left in the registry from previous programs that didn't remove everything when later uninstalled.
The type of "errors" reported that probably refer to these left-overs are: Invalid Paths, Invalid Help Files, Invalid Known DLL's, Obsolete Start Menu Items, Invalid Application Paths, Invalid Shared DLLs, and Unused Software Entries. The specific error types reported by Registry First Aid that possibly DO matter, are the ones described as Invalid Fonts and possibly also Auto Run Programs - depending on whether the program just reports current startup programs, or is telling you about wrong ones being loaded as Windows starts up. An excessive number of installed fonts or corrupt fonts CAN cause a slow boot, because they are all checked out during boot.
The quickest way to check for things that are failing or causing abnormal delay during boot is to download the following stanalone "Bootlog Text Analyzer" utility. Press F8 during boot, and choose the "Logged" option from the Boot Menu. Now unzip BLA.EXE from the download to any folder and double-click on it. Click the "Start" button of the utility's dialog, and OK the informational message that appears. After it loads C:\Bootlog.txt, click the "Load Failures" filter and then do a File > Save As > BootFails.txt. Untick the "Failures" filter, and tick the "Show Delays" filter. Save the results as "BootDelays.txt". The first file will normally be small enough to copy and paste here, but the delays results might be too long. If there is any mention of failure to load fonts, then that could be what is causing your long boot time. I am quite sure that any font problem cannot be attributed to your current problems, but it might show details of something that IS related.
Back to your "Registry First Aid" report. The Windows 98 registry is contained in the files USER.DAT and SYSTEM.DAT. These files are not editable in a standard text editor, so Regedit was created to present the data in a logical and accessible interface. Being databases, they can become corrupted just like any database. Those are the errors that scanreg.exe (DOS version) and Scanregw.exe (Windows version) identify as "registry errors". If you opened either file in a text editor, pressed the space-bar a few times at random places, and then saved the file, you would have a corrupt registry that Scanreg would identify as such and advise you to restore one of the backups. Scanreg ignores the vast majority of orphan settings or command lines that point to files which no longer exist. They are insignificant as far as Scanreg is concerned, but 3rd-party registry fix utilities report everything, no matter how insignificant.
The next time you open a Word document, and then close and delete it, that document's name is stored in the registry as a Most Recently Used (MRU) file so that it appears at the bottom of the Word "File" Menu. The fact that the file no longer exists presents no problems to your system, but one of those registry fix utilities will identify it amongst the thousands of other "errors", so being able to identify the reported errors that matter. It's similar to what you encountered when asked "do you want to keep or overwrite this file", and you had to make a decision without any available advice. A lot of uninstallers identify "shared files that are no longer in use" and, unless you know what the file is and does, you can end up removing a file that IS still needed.
Scanreg.exe and Scanregw.exe take their instructions from scanreg.ini. This is what tells scanreg to keep 5 backups, what files to save in these backups, to optimize the registry to remove empty space, and other actions.
One of the command-line (from DOS) options for Scanreg (DOS version only) is : scanreg /fix. This should really be run only from FULL DOS, and generally what this does is remove bad formatting and other such things that have made the registry corrupt. In the same way that Anti-Spyware identifies known and specific egistry entries, Scanreg works on very specific guidelines, and won't rectify bad entries left by 3rd-party software. Microsoft, Symantec/Norton, Nero, and many other software vendors have had to write "cleanup" utilities left behind by their own software, and I would tend to regard these as the only absolutely safe registry fixers you will get, because they target only their own registry settings.
Here is a very good page that discusses SCANREG options that is worth reading, and probably printing:
http://www.cadinfo.net/editorial/winsysutilsl.htm
Related Microsoft pages:
How to Manually Restore the Windows 98 Registry:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q221512/
Command Line Switches for Scanreg.exe:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q184023/
Description of SCANREG.EXE:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q183887/
How to Customize Scanreg Settings (scanreg.ini):
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q183603/
Registry Backup Not Listed in scanreg.exe /restore option:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q182841/
The amount of conventional memory required by scenreg.exe is determined by the size of the two .DAT files that make up the registry. Scenreg.exe may require 580 KB or more of free conventional memory to complete a scanreg /fix repair process. If you encounter an "Out of Memory" error message, optimize your free conventional memory.
"Extended Memory" is required for scenreg.exe to work properly. It will not run without hanging (or without errors) from the Safe Mode Command Prompt Only boot option. The exception to this is the scanreg /restore command, which is the only Scanreg function that can run without extended memory memory.
How to Increase Conventional Memory for MS-DOS-Based Programs:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/134399/EN-US/
Note: The registry comprises index-structured files. Every entry has a secondary role in facilitating the indexing of other entries. When an entry is "deleted", its space is still there to fulfil this indexing role and the .DAT files don't shrink. That is the purpose of the scanreg /opt command, ie. to "optimize" it. In Windows 98, the backups made once a day are optimized to remove empty space.
How to manually compact (defragment) the registry from DOS:
http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/registry.htm
(Scroll down to the section header "Compacting the registry", but read the rest of the page as well).
More details here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q131352/
http://www.eolsoft.com/freeware/registry_jumper/regedit_switches.htm
To finish off my response to your queries about the registry, the ONLY registry cleaner I use is one created by the Microsoft Team for Windows 95 (but which works well in Windows 98) :
RegClean.exe version 4.1a.7364.1
http://windows.about.com/library/regclean.exe
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download458.html
ftp://ftp.swcp.com/pub/pc/win95/regclean.exe
Create a new folder C:\REGCLEAN and unzip the contents of the self-extracting zip file "regclean.exe" into it. You only need the regclean.exe program file and the readme.txt files, delete the "aodist.exe" file as it only relates to Win95. You can now delete the self-extracting package you downloaded.
Make a new registry backup first:
1. Start Menu > RUN > and type SCANREGW > click OK
2. You will be told that the registry has already been backed up today, but choose to create another one. Note the time and date.
Run the program:
3. Double-click on (or make a shortcut to) regclean.exe and wait until it reports that there are any errors found.
4. Click the "Fix Errors" button and close RegClean if it stays open.
5. Go immediately to your C:\REGCLEAN folder and you will see a new .reg file named
"Undo <date> <time>.reg". Right-Click and rename it using the date, eg
"15102005.reg" or "151005.reg". Avoid any spaces or dots in the filename, you want it to be DOS compliant ie. with 8 characters or less in the file name.
To see what changes were made, you can Right-Click > Edit the .REG file and view it in Notepad, but it will probably all be gobbledegook to you. RegClean looks for "orphan" (redundant) or wrongly cross-referenced SYSTEM registry entries, and deletes them. It DOES NOT weed out old entries left by 3rd-party utilities unless they fall into specific system categories, so it is limited but slightly safer than other wonder utilities. The renamed .REG file is your backup, and can be IMPORTED back into your registry in two ways if you experience problems:
1. Windows - Right-Click > "Merge"
2. DOS - Change directory to the C:\Windows folder and type the command (using the name of the file as given in the example above):
regedit c:\regclean\151005.reg
IF, for some reason, you encounter errors or problems after running RegClean, just merge the .reg file back to the registry from Windows or DOS. If the system doesn't boot after the next shutdown, boot to "Command Prompt" from the F8 Boot Menu and first use the DOS command above to restore ONLY the registry entries that RegClean deleted.
To restore the registry backup you created with the SCANREGW.EXE action before you ran RegClean, just type the command:
scanreg /restore
from the DOS Prompt, and choose the backup with the time and date that you noted when you created it.
OK, that's the registry taken care of. No harm in trying RegClean as long as you print out the notes and follow them. It will certainly clean out a lot of old or wrong entries, but doesn't always get it right.
>>>
"You make frequent references to "multimedia" that I want to be sure I understand".
<<<
I refer to any file type that provides audio or video feedback as a "multimedia" file. I would also refer to a PowerPoint presentation containing a video and macromedia Flash animations as "multimedia" in nature.
My references to multimedia-related SETTINGS, PROGRAMS, or LISTINGS covers anything that relates to audio or video support, eg. Audio/Video Compression Codecs, Sample Sounds, Macromedia Flash, Volume Control, etc. Most Windows processes that involve the accessing of multimedia hardware or software are started and run through the MCI API. "API" means "Application Program Interface", and is a standardised set of routines present in Windows which application developers can utilise. "MCI" means "Media Control Interface", and is one of the Windows API's which is devoted to accessing the multimedia devices. "Device" here can be a hardware OR software device. Supported multimedia devices include waveform-audio devices, MIDI sequencers, CD audio devices, digital-video (video playback) devices, etc.
Most commands are channelled through one system DLL file, namely C:\Windows\System\MMCI.DLL
To get a clearer picture of all the files in your system related to MultiMedia support, do file searches for *mci.* and *mm*.*
The version of MMCI.DLL on my Win98SE system is 4.03.2200 dated 23 April 1999 Time 22:22:00. This is the original file installed from my CD, and would be the same one that would be restored if I ran the System File Checker (Start > Run > SFC > OK) and chose to restore only that file from my CD.
Maybe you should try extracting a fresh copy of MMCI.DLL from your CD just in case you have a corrupt file causing some problems.
One thing that I feel you SHOULD install is the:
"Windows Driver Model (WDM) Audio Update for Windows 98 Second Edition"
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=242937
Some soundcard drivers include this update and do a version check to see if it is required. If it is needed, and isn't already installed, they usually prompt you to install it. I have a feeling that your soundcard drivers don't package this update, although it might well be on the CD under a sub-folder named "Redist" (redistributables).
I don't see a direct download link for this package on the Microsoft page above, and it looks as though it will only be made available through Windows Update, but here is an independently-hosted installer package to download:
http://www.tacktech.com/pub/microsoft/win98se/242937usa8.exe
To tell if it is already installed, here are the file versions installed :
3/21/2000 8:34:03pm 4.10.2223 137,312 Kmixer.sys
3/21/2000 8:34:03pm 4.10.2223 169,376 Portcls.sys
3/21/2000 8:34:04pm 4.10.2224 41,568 Usbaudio.sys
3/21/2000 8:34:04pm 4.10.2225 69,120 Wdmaud.sys
Alternatively, run MSINFO32 from the Start Menu's "Run" option, and open out the left pane to the section: Software Environment > Software Updates > W98.SE and it should be listed as "Windows 98 Second Edition Q242937 update".
Try this update first and see if it makes any difference.
Bill
Bob
I neglected to specifically address two of your questions/concerns:
Question 3:
Would repairing the Multimedia Properties box be of any help with my problems?
Question 4:
Could you recommend a safe Registry Cleaner (or possibly even a set of cleaners) that should be applied to eliminate the Registry errors with no regret on my part that the repairs would lead to bigger problems for having put them into effect?
Question 5:
Could the Registry cleaners suggestion be able to, by itself, eliminate my audio problems or is that just magical thinking?
Q. 4 - If "Registry First Aid" creates a backup of the registry items it changes or deletes, then you will have to ascertain the following:
(a) Would you be able to restore the registry to the way it was from the backup using DOS commands in the event that the changes rendered the system incapable of booting to anything other than DOS. In other words, there is no sense in having the backup if it is in some format only recogniseable by "Registry First Aid" , and then discover that the program cannot be run from DOS.
(b) if it creates backups as a standard .REG file, then the backup could be restored from DOS (as outlined earlier), but I would suggest that you ensured that it wasn't stored with a long filename containing spaces in a folder which has long names and spaces in its path. If so, and the program cannot be run from DOS to restore its own backup .REG file, then I would immediately copy the .REG file by a shorter name into a folder with short names and no spaces in its path before restarting the computer.
Q. 5 - Possibly, but how would a registry cleaner know what the settings on YOUR computer SHOULD be? It will, no doubt about it, clear out a load of old redundant settings left over from previous uninstalled programs and configuration settings that might be somehow conflicting with others to contribute to the problem, but my view is that it probably won't actually FIX the problem. Where it WOULD be useful, is to remove the old junk settings and allow you to reinstall Windows on top of itself WITHOUT still having those old settings. Windows SHOULD then restore its own proper settings (ie. Fix the problem if it is registry-related) and any conflicts would no longer be there to perpetuate the problem.
Q. 3 - The "Multimedia Properties" dialog is mainly provided by the Control Panel file (referred to as an "applet") C:\Windows\System\MMSYS.CP
This isn't really a file that is updated by any programs I have encountered (although it is possible), and the file version and date on my Win98SE system is 4.03.1998 23 April 1999 22:22:00. This is the same as the other system files on my system that have remained unchanged since installation.
You could try using the System File Checker (SFC) to extract that single file from your Windows 98 CD just in case your existing one is corrupt. This .CPL file calls other system files when accessed, so the "properties" dialog isn't really one single file:
KERNEL32.dll
USER32.dll
ADVAPI32.dll
SHELL32.dll
COMCTL32.dll
GDI32.dll
comdlg32.dll
WINMM.dll <--------- Version 4.03.1998 Date 23 April 1999 22:22:00
DSOUND.dll <--------- DirectX File and is replaced by DirectX updates.
Reinstalling the same version of DirectX should repair DSOUND.DLL (Direct Sound), especially if you first renamed it DSOUND.OLD immediately before reinstalling DirectX.
WinMM.DLL could be replaced by running SFC to restore it from your Win98 CD. It is one of the files that handles the passing of internal commands to allow intercommunication between multimedia devices (hardware and software ones).
These actions would soon enough verify if the problem was due to the Multimedia Properties dialog, but what you have to remember is that the details fetched to populate that dialog's various options and fields come from the registry. If the details are incorrect, due to erroneous data or a corrupt driver installation, then they won't be fetched and some of the options will not be made available.
Bill
I neglected to specifically address two of your questions/concerns:
Question 3:
Would repairing the Multimedia Properties box be of any help with my problems?
Question 4:
Could you recommend a safe Registry Cleaner (or possibly even a set of cleaners) that should be applied to eliminate the Registry errors with no regret on my part that the repairs would lead to bigger problems for having put them into effect?
Question 5:
Could the Registry cleaners suggestion be able to, by itself, eliminate my audio problems or is that just magical thinking?
Q. 4 - If "Registry First Aid" creates a backup of the registry items it changes or deletes, then you will have to ascertain the following:
(a) Would you be able to restore the registry to the way it was from the backup using DOS commands in the event that the changes rendered the system incapable of booting to anything other than DOS. In other words, there is no sense in having the backup if it is in some format only recogniseable by "Registry First Aid" , and then discover that the program cannot be run from DOS.
(b) if it creates backups as a standard .REG file, then the backup could be restored from DOS (as outlined earlier), but I would suggest that you ensured that it wasn't stored with a long filename containing spaces in a folder which has long names and spaces in its path. If so, and the program cannot be run from DOS to restore its own backup .REG file, then I would immediately copy the .REG file by a shorter name into a folder with short names and no spaces in its path before restarting the computer.
Q. 5 - Possibly, but how would a registry cleaner know what the settings on YOUR computer SHOULD be? It will, no doubt about it, clear out a load of old redundant settings left over from previous uninstalled programs and configuration settings that might be somehow conflicting with others to contribute to the problem, but my view is that it probably won't actually FIX the problem. Where it WOULD be useful, is to remove the old junk settings and allow you to reinstall Windows on top of itself WITHOUT still having those old settings. Windows SHOULD then restore its own proper settings (ie. Fix the problem if it is registry-related) and any conflicts would no longer be there to perpetuate the problem.
Q. 3 - The "Multimedia Properties" dialog is mainly provided by the Control Panel file (referred to as an "applet") C:\Windows\System\MMSYS.CP
This isn't really a file that is updated by any programs I have encountered (although it is possible), and the file version and date on my Win98SE system is 4.03.1998 23 April 1999 22:22:00. This is the same as the other system files on my system that have remained unchanged since installation.
You could try using the System File Checker (SFC) to extract that single file from your Windows 98 CD just in case your existing one is corrupt. This .CPL file calls other system files when accessed, so the "properties" dialog isn't really one single file:
KERNEL32.dll
USER32.dll
ADVAPI32.dll
SHELL32.dll
COMCTL32.dll
GDI32.dll
comdlg32.dll
WINMM.dll <--------- Version 4.03.1998 Date 23 April 1999 22:22:00
DSOUND.dll <--------- DirectX File and is replaced by DirectX updates.
Reinstalling the same version of DirectX should repair DSOUND.DLL (Direct Sound), especially if you first renamed it DSOUND.OLD immediately before reinstalling DirectX.
WinMM.DLL could be replaced by running SFC to restore it from your Win98 CD. It is one of the files that handles the passing of internal commands to allow intercommunication between multimedia devices (hardware and software ones).
These actions would soon enough verify if the problem was due to the Multimedia Properties dialog, but what you have to remember is that the details fetched to populate that dialog's various options and fields come from the registry. If the details are incorrect, due to erroneous data or a corrupt driver installation, then they won't be fetched and some of the options will not be made available.
Bill
ASKER
Bill,
Once again, I'm sorry for not returning sooner and I'm sure there are people who have bigger tales of woe but I'm starting to have accumulating blue screen problems (but able to return to the Desktop with a key press) with some applications and the operating system. In addition now some programs won’t open (but appear as tasks in the Task Manager) and sometimes I am now unable to open the browser. These problems were partially repaired by restoring an earlier registry (audio problems where are you?).
I’m also delayed by all of the material about the registry that you have sent. I’m not complaining but it takes a little time to digest it.
From the above paragraph would your suggestion be to apply RegClean as soon as I could?
Now I'll report this to you but realize that I have to contact Trend Micro techsupport to resolve this issue:
I use Trend Micro Internet Security 2005 (PC-cillin) and its automatic prompts for updating components started appearing suspiciously more frequently and when I actually did an update, I was not getting any changed pattern versions listed even though I had done about 4 or 5 component updates but finally one did update to 2.895.00.
So I called their techsupport and it took a little while to get him to understand the complaint I had, but he instructed me to delete the Internet TMP files (while in Internet Explorer) and delete the Trend Micro cache files leaving the directory they were in still present. Thereafter, some period of time after the program would initialize itself I was getting messages that "The TmProxy module experienced a critical error. Please reinstall the program. Internal error [-14/PH1/ENG00000040]."
Even though I reported this to the techsupport, he said I did not have to reinstall which seems peculiar to me. But thereafter, whenever I would reboot and the TMIS would initialize that TmProxy message would reappear. And I started to have blue screen messages:
"An exception OE has occurred at 0028:DCCF85B0 in VxD TM_CFW(0) + 00080840. This was called from 0028:C001C3D4 in VxD NDIS(01) + 00004860. It may be possible to continue normally." And it was possible, after a keypress, to return to the Desktop. But these kept coming more and more frequently until finally only a blank blue screen was present.
I was going to respond to your last posts with the following:
The first thing I need to know is whether it is possible for a file to be corrupt if it has the correct version number and is the same size as a correct version? If something were corrupted wouldn’t its size have to be changed, most likely, by adding or subtracting code that would change its size?
I’m getting confused by the various lines of attack in your posts and it seems to me (correct me if I’m wrong) that these are something like the following:
1) Reinstall Windows 98SE over my current installation.
2) Installation of Windows Driver Model (WDM) Audio Update for Windows 98SE.
3) Reinstall Sound Recorder.
4) I haven't figured out yet what I must do with the Multimedia Properties box but this is also on the agenda.
5) It seems to me, but I haven’t had time to check yet, that there some other suggestions you’ve made but I’ll have to review the posts to complete the list.
6) There is some checking of versions, etc. required by these suggestions some of which are necessary to even see if they are required by my system that I have to feed back to you.
Please don't add anything yet to the above material. Let me digest it first.
I would like you to comment on the following statements:
I’m surprised by the fact that errors and malfunctions not detected by scanreg are still able to be corrected by a restoration of a previous registry. Please comment.
Since I don’t have invalid fonts or auto run programs in my list of 1300 invalid entries, you would consider them insignificant, and, therefore useless to correct? Is that correct?
However, wouldn’t all these invalid entries require checking by the operating system of false trails, conflicts, etc. which would be time consuming and, therefore, a drain on the system?
Bob
Once again, I'm sorry for not returning sooner and I'm sure there are people who have bigger tales of woe but I'm starting to have accumulating blue screen problems (but able to return to the Desktop with a key press) with some applications and the operating system. In addition now some programs won’t open (but appear as tasks in the Task Manager) and sometimes I am now unable to open the browser. These problems were partially repaired by restoring an earlier registry (audio problems where are you?).
I’m also delayed by all of the material about the registry that you have sent. I’m not complaining but it takes a little time to digest it.
From the above paragraph would your suggestion be to apply RegClean as soon as I could?
Now I'll report this to you but realize that I have to contact Trend Micro techsupport to resolve this issue:
I use Trend Micro Internet Security 2005 (PC-cillin) and its automatic prompts for updating components started appearing suspiciously more frequently and when I actually did an update, I was not getting any changed pattern versions listed even though I had done about 4 or 5 component updates but finally one did update to 2.895.00.
So I called their techsupport and it took a little while to get him to understand the complaint I had, but he instructed me to delete the Internet TMP files (while in Internet Explorer) and delete the Trend Micro cache files leaving the directory they were in still present. Thereafter, some period of time after the program would initialize itself I was getting messages that "The TmProxy module experienced a critical error. Please reinstall the program. Internal error [-14/PH1/ENG00000040]."
Even though I reported this to the techsupport, he said I did not have to reinstall which seems peculiar to me. But thereafter, whenever I would reboot and the TMIS would initialize that TmProxy message would reappear. And I started to have blue screen messages:
"An exception OE has occurred at 0028:DCCF85B0 in VxD TM_CFW(0) + 00080840. This was called from 0028:C001C3D4 in VxD NDIS(01) + 00004860. It may be possible to continue normally." And it was possible, after a keypress, to return to the Desktop. But these kept coming more and more frequently until finally only a blank blue screen was present.
I was going to respond to your last posts with the following:
The first thing I need to know is whether it is possible for a file to be corrupt if it has the correct version number and is the same size as a correct version? If something were corrupted wouldn’t its size have to be changed, most likely, by adding or subtracting code that would change its size?
I’m getting confused by the various lines of attack in your posts and it seems to me (correct me if I’m wrong) that these are something like the following:
1) Reinstall Windows 98SE over my current installation.
2) Installation of Windows Driver Model (WDM) Audio Update for Windows 98SE.
3) Reinstall Sound Recorder.
4) I haven't figured out yet what I must do with the Multimedia Properties box but this is also on the agenda.
5) It seems to me, but I haven’t had time to check yet, that there some other suggestions you’ve made but I’ll have to review the posts to complete the list.
6) There is some checking of versions, etc. required by these suggestions some of which are necessary to even see if they are required by my system that I have to feed back to you.
Please don't add anything yet to the above material. Let me digest it first.
I would like you to comment on the following statements:
I’m surprised by the fact that errors and malfunctions not detected by scanreg are still able to be corrected by a restoration of a previous registry. Please comment.
Since I don’t have invalid fonts or auto run programs in my list of 1300 invalid entries, you would consider them insignificant, and, therefore useless to correct? Is that correct?
However, wouldn’t all these invalid entries require checking by the operating system of false trails, conflicts, etc. which would be time consuming and, therefore, a drain on the system?
Bob
Hi Bob
Scanreg doesn't identify debris or left-overs in the registry. It mainly looks for bad formatting and similar problems that cause errors when the registry files are being read through at startup.
My lengthy discussion about the registry issues stemmed directly from your cautious queries and about the "Registry First Aid" utility and the potential problems that could ensue through its use. I wouldn't normally have bogged you down with this detail, except that I felt I needed to explain precisely how to run the "only registry cleaner that I would consider". You did mention that you like the ability to save information, and that comment was intended to be copied and saved as reference if you chose to run RegClean after reading my explanations.
The problem with restoring a previous registry that predates changes to system files and configurations, is that the changed files remain intact, but the registry will change to a previous state that may not match the current files in use. In addition, the two files that make up your registry aren't the only files that are restored using the scanreg /restore command. Each backup .CAB file also contains a backed-up copy of the configuration files system.ini and win.ini. Together these two files contain settings that could, potentially, cause conflicts or errors if restored to a system that has changed significantly since the backup was created.
If "Registry First Aid" is able to create a report in a common format like TXT, RTF, CSV, DOC, HTM, then please feel free to email me this report as a zipped attachment and I can study it in detail to try and ascertain just what problem areas in the registry it is reporting. I would hazard a guess that the report would be far too large to copy and paste here.
Yes, a system file can become corrupt without changing the file size or date, just the same as a .zip file or .wav file can become corrupt and unrecogniseable. It is unusual, and most errors arise because of wrong file versions rather than corruption.
Your quoted "blue-screen" error relates to a "Trend Micro" driver named "TM_CFW.VXD", and it is highly likely that this is because PC-Cillin is being launched from startup as a "Service" to run the AntiVirus program in the background. The references to NDIS and to TMIS and TmProxy tell me that this is almost certainly due to attempts by Trend Micro Internet Security 2005 to seek updates. A possibility is that the program has detected changes that it deems to be corruption, and is attempting to automatically perform a repair installation. Part of this process probably tries to connect to the internet using its own files, hence the error. That's my calculated theory anyway.
Until you can focus further on the problems in hand, I suggest that you disable this program from launching or loading any of its components at startup:
1. Start Menu > "Run" option > and type MSCONFIG > Click "OK"
2. Open the "Startup" tab and look for startup processes that launch Trend Micro or PC-Cillin files or programs.
3. Untick them, and click "Apply"
4. Click "OK" and reboot when prompted.
I would be happy to help you identify the relevant startup listings if you paste details of your startup programs here:
1. Start Menu > "Run" option > and type MSINFO32 > click "OK"
2. In the left pane, open out "Software Environment", and click on "Startup Programs"
3. To copy the details that show in the right-hand pane, use the "Edit" menu as follows:
Edit > Select All > Edit Copy
4. Paste here (Ctrl and V keys), or paste first into Notepad to save the file
This page lists some common startup processes alphabetically if you prefer to identify them yourself:
http://www.answersthatwork.com/Tasklist_pages/tasklist.htm
My "line of attack" is that you should start off by reinstalling the operating system that placed all those original files and settings on your computer to begin with. It's not going to replace ALL the newer files with the original versions, but it's the best thing to do in the circumstances. By then successively reinstalling more recent applications (oldest ones first), you would hopefully be updating the system back to what it was when functional. The Trend-Micro application is obviously the most up-to-date software (being dated 2005), so that would be the last application I would reinstall. What you have to remember here is that you have an operating system dating back to 1998/1999 with installed applications dated 2005. Developers of current applications try their best to provide compatibility with Windows 98, but a lot has gone down between 98 and 2005. A great many of the files that such a recent application will install (or expect to be available) are likely to be the latest ones made available my Microsoft updates for Win98.
If you took the computer to a shop, the technician MIGHT (if he/she had time) try a dirty overinstall of Windows, but would be more likely to : format your hard drive without making any backups, reinstall Windows, and then hand it back to you in that state. I might even be tempted to do that as a final solution, but I know one thing for sure and that is that I will always try reinstalling Windows as a first option.
It would be great if I could immediately pinpoint why your multimedia "properties" dialog isn't functioning properly, but there are just too many possible variables present to do this. Driver files are only as good as the platform on which they are installed, and if that platform isn't functioning properly due to wrong file versions or system settings, then it is best to try and fix that "platform" first rather than trying to address only the dialog that is affected.
I'm just trying to be realistic here, and I am conscious of your cautious nature and need to know the ins-and-outs of suggestions before committing to them.
Bill
Scanreg doesn't identify debris or left-overs in the registry. It mainly looks for bad formatting and similar problems that cause errors when the registry files are being read through at startup.
My lengthy discussion about the registry issues stemmed directly from your cautious queries and about the "Registry First Aid" utility and the potential problems that could ensue through its use. I wouldn't normally have bogged you down with this detail, except that I felt I needed to explain precisely how to run the "only registry cleaner that I would consider". You did mention that you like the ability to save information, and that comment was intended to be copied and saved as reference if you chose to run RegClean after reading my explanations.
The problem with restoring a previous registry that predates changes to system files and configurations, is that the changed files remain intact, but the registry will change to a previous state that may not match the current files in use. In addition, the two files that make up your registry aren't the only files that are restored using the scanreg /restore command. Each backup .CAB file also contains a backed-up copy of the configuration files system.ini and win.ini. Together these two files contain settings that could, potentially, cause conflicts or errors if restored to a system that has changed significantly since the backup was created.
If "Registry First Aid" is able to create a report in a common format like TXT, RTF, CSV, DOC, HTM, then please feel free to email me this report as a zipped attachment and I can study it in detail to try and ascertain just what problem areas in the registry it is reporting. I would hazard a guess that the report would be far too large to copy and paste here.
Yes, a system file can become corrupt without changing the file size or date, just the same as a .zip file or .wav file can become corrupt and unrecogniseable. It is unusual, and most errors arise because of wrong file versions rather than corruption.
Your quoted "blue-screen" error relates to a "Trend Micro" driver named "TM_CFW.VXD", and it is highly likely that this is because PC-Cillin is being launched from startup as a "Service" to run the AntiVirus program in the background. The references to NDIS and to TMIS and TmProxy tell me that this is almost certainly due to attempts by Trend Micro Internet Security 2005 to seek updates. A possibility is that the program has detected changes that it deems to be corruption, and is attempting to automatically perform a repair installation. Part of this process probably tries to connect to the internet using its own files, hence the error. That's my calculated theory anyway.
Until you can focus further on the problems in hand, I suggest that you disable this program from launching or loading any of its components at startup:
1. Start Menu > "Run" option > and type MSCONFIG > Click "OK"
2. Open the "Startup" tab and look for startup processes that launch Trend Micro or PC-Cillin files or programs.
3. Untick them, and click "Apply"
4. Click "OK" and reboot when prompted.
I would be happy to help you identify the relevant startup listings if you paste details of your startup programs here:
1. Start Menu > "Run" option > and type MSINFO32 > click "OK"
2. In the left pane, open out "Software Environment", and click on "Startup Programs"
3. To copy the details that show in the right-hand pane, use the "Edit" menu as follows:
Edit > Select All > Edit Copy
4. Paste here (Ctrl and V keys), or paste first into Notepad to save the file
This page lists some common startup processes alphabetically if you prefer to identify them yourself:
http://www.answersthatwork.com/Tasklist_pages/tasklist.htm
My "line of attack" is that you should start off by reinstalling the operating system that placed all those original files and settings on your computer to begin with. It's not going to replace ALL the newer files with the original versions, but it's the best thing to do in the circumstances. By then successively reinstalling more recent applications (oldest ones first), you would hopefully be updating the system back to what it was when functional. The Trend-Micro application is obviously the most up-to-date software (being dated 2005), so that would be the last application I would reinstall. What you have to remember here is that you have an operating system dating back to 1998/1999 with installed applications dated 2005. Developers of current applications try their best to provide compatibility with Windows 98, but a lot has gone down between 98 and 2005. A great many of the files that such a recent application will install (or expect to be available) are likely to be the latest ones made available my Microsoft updates for Win98.
If you took the computer to a shop, the technician MIGHT (if he/she had time) try a dirty overinstall of Windows, but would be more likely to : format your hard drive without making any backups, reinstall Windows, and then hand it back to you in that state. I might even be tempted to do that as a final solution, but I know one thing for sure and that is that I will always try reinstalling Windows as a first option.
It would be great if I could immediately pinpoint why your multimedia "properties" dialog isn't functioning properly, but there are just too many possible variables present to do this. Driver files are only as good as the platform on which they are installed, and if that platform isn't functioning properly due to wrong file versions or system settings, then it is best to try and fix that "platform" first rather than trying to address only the dialog that is affected.
I'm just trying to be realistic here, and I am conscious of your cautious nature and need to know the ins-and-outs of suggestions before committing to them.
Bill
In case you are wondering about my suggestion to disable the Trend Micro program, it goes way back to something I posted much earlier:
FAQ Sheet:
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/5769999.txt
>>>"Before installing any Software or Hardware in a system, you must disable any Antivirus programs....<<<
It would appear that your AntiVirus software suite has been fully functional during the uninstallations and reinstallations you have done, and MAY have been a contributory factor to the present state of the computer. It is always best to temporarily disable AntiVirus software before installing anything.
FAQ Sheet:
ftp://ftp.voyetra.com/pub/tbs/montego2/5769999.txt
>>>"Before installing any Software or Hardware in a system, you must disable any Antivirus programs....<<<
It would appear that your AntiVirus software suite has been fully functional during the uninstallations and reinstallations you have done, and MAY have been a contributory factor to the present state of the computer. It is always best to temporarily disable AntiVirus software before installing anything.
ASKER
Bill, while I'm studying your last posts, I see your offer to look over my Registry First Aid invalid entry report. This report is a .txt file that is 623,502 bytes long and when zipped, it compresses to 49,840 bytes. I had a hard time believing a 12.5 compression ratio but I did unzip it and it did restore the original information. So, knowing this, would you still want to see it?
If so, you will have to describe how I can go about this since looking over the Help file didn't seem to show anything about Attachments in Experts-Exchange. My profile contains my email address so, I presume, you will have access to this
Bob.
If so, you will have to describe how I can go about this since looking over the Help file didn't seem to show anything about Attachments in Experts-Exchange. My profile contains my email address so, I presume, you will have access to this
Bob.
Bob
Yes, I would be keen to see your Registry First Aid report. I can't see your email address in your profile, but you will see my hotmail one in MY profile. Please feel free to email it to that address as an attachment and I will study it. Yes, you can get some pretty good compression ratios on text-only files, especially where they contain tabs and repetative use of the same expressions. Files that are already compressed (eg. JPG and GIF files) may actually increase in size when zipped, and .exe's don't compress much at all.
Please email it to me and I will respond as quickly as I can with any observations that I see as relevant to the multimedia problem and also miscellaneous errors. I will also post those findings back to this question for completeness, and to advise other experts of potential problem areas detected.
Another report that would be VERY useful to me is one that can be quickly created by Dr. Watson, which is a native Windows 98 utility program.
1. Start Menu > "Run" option and type DRWATSON > click OK
2. Notice the new icon in your System Tray
3. Right-Click the icon and click "DRWATSON"
4. It will generate a snapshot, and open in a multi-tabbed dialog
5. File Menu > Save As > browse to suitable folder like your desktop.
6. Save it by any name, but keep the file type as "Dr Watson Log File".
This will create a new *.WLG file that, if zipped up and emailed to me, will allow me to open it in Dr. Watson and see the various proceses loaded and running on your system, plus details of driver files. These files DO NOT contain any details of private settings like passwords or serial numbers. A 400 KB .WLG file will zip down to about 40 KB at maximum Winzip compression.
Dr. Watson can also be left running in the background, and can often intercept and take snapshots of error situations as they occur. Log Files are automatically saved to the C:\Windows\DRWATSON folder as .WLG files.
Regards
Bill
Yes, I would be keen to see your Registry First Aid report. I can't see your email address in your profile, but you will see my hotmail one in MY profile. Please feel free to email it to that address as an attachment and I will study it. Yes, you can get some pretty good compression ratios on text-only files, especially where they contain tabs and repetative use of the same expressions. Files that are already compressed (eg. JPG and GIF files) may actually increase in size when zipped, and .exe's don't compress much at all.
Please email it to me and I will respond as quickly as I can with any observations that I see as relevant to the multimedia problem and also miscellaneous errors. I will also post those findings back to this question for completeness, and to advise other experts of potential problem areas detected.
Another report that would be VERY useful to me is one that can be quickly created by Dr. Watson, which is a native Windows 98 utility program.
1. Start Menu > "Run" option and type DRWATSON > click OK
2. Notice the new icon in your System Tray
3. Right-Click the icon and click "DRWATSON"
4. It will generate a snapshot, and open in a multi-tabbed dialog
5. File Menu > Save As > browse to suitable folder like your desktop.
6. Save it by any name, but keep the file type as "Dr Watson Log File".
This will create a new *.WLG file that, if zipped up and emailed to me, will allow me to open it in Dr. Watson and see the various proceses loaded and running on your system, plus details of driver files. These files DO NOT contain any details of private settings like passwords or serial numbers. A 400 KB .WLG file will zip down to about 40 KB at maximum Winzip compression.
Dr. Watson can also be left running in the background, and can often intercept and take snapshots of error situations as they occur. Log Files are automatically saved to the C:\Windows\DRWATSON folder as .WLG files.
Regards
Bill
Another type of systems information file that can provide VERY good detail is that produced by the Windows 98 Systems Information Utility.
Start > Run > MSINFO32 > OK
File > Save > Any File Name > Save as type "MSInfo Files (*.nfo)".
File size could be over 1 MB, but a 1.2 MB .nfo produced by my system zips down to about 140 KB at max winzip compression. Similarly, this type of report DOES NOT reveal any personal data such as serial numbers, passwords, product keys, etc.
Again, feel free to email this report as a zipped attachment. This one WOULD provide some VERY good information, and is the one often asked for by online helpdesk advisors.
Together we will get to the bootom of this :-)
Bill
Start > Run > MSINFO32 > OK
File > Save > Any File Name > Save as type "MSInfo Files (*.nfo)".
File size could be over 1 MB, but a 1.2 MB .nfo produced by my system zips down to about 140 KB at max winzip compression. Similarly, this type of report DOES NOT reveal any personal data such as serial numbers, passwords, product keys, etc.
Again, feel free to email this report as a zipped attachment. This one WOULD provide some VERY good information, and is the one often asked for by online helpdesk advisors.
Together we will get to the bootom of this :-)
Bill
ASKER
OK, got your receipt for the Registry First Aid file and I've just sent the MSINFO32 zipped file. I appreciate your concern to tell me that no personal information is trasmitted by the files I'm sending.
Just for the record, I do install software after I have ended most tasks including the anti-viral program via the Task Manager (leaving only Explorer and Systray.) The only exceptions to this has been recently when I do not end the tasks for my recently added external hard drive since really didn't know what effect that would have on that hard drive. However, I didn't know that I should also have ended those tasks prior to uninstallation processes which I never did.
I'll be sending the Dr. Watson log soon. It strikes me that there ought to be a better time in my computer processes to use Dr. Watson but you'll have to let me know about this. Also I used the default settings of DRWATSON as to No. of instructions and No. of stack frames so you can let me know if that needs changing as well. You ought to be able to read a couple of million characters from those files in a short while.
Now that those chores are out of the way (assuming they were successful), I have to get back to your other posted material.
Bob
Just for the record, I do install software after I have ended most tasks including the anti-viral program via the Task Manager (leaving only Explorer and Systray.) The only exceptions to this has been recently when I do not end the tasks for my recently added external hard drive since really didn't know what effect that would have on that hard drive. However, I didn't know that I should also have ended those tasks prior to uninstallation processes which I never did.
I'll be sending the Dr. Watson log soon. It strikes me that there ought to be a better time in my computer processes to use Dr. Watson but you'll have to let me know about this. Also I used the default settings of DRWATSON as to No. of instructions and No. of stack frames so you can let me know if that needs changing as well. You ought to be able to read a couple of million characters from those files in a short while.
Now that those chores are out of the way (assuming they were successful), I have to get back to your other posted material.
Bob
ASKER
Some additional points
1. Somehow my computer has settled down and is no longer giving me the blue screens so it is functional. Previously, I was not waiting for all hard drive activity to stop before starting to use the facilities but since I've done that it seems less flaky. Is that a reasonable conclusion?
2. I did speak to the Trend Micro anti-viral program techsupport and they gave me instructions involving uninstalling the current installation and then reinstalling an updated Trend Micro Internet Security 2005 program. I'm very curious about how this would work and would like to try it since I was still getting those TmProxy messages as the program initializes itself. Since I want to follow your instructions so that I don't make my problems worse, I thought I should run this by you. May I? And I would end its task prior to installing and uninstalling processes.
Thanks
Bob
1. Somehow my computer has settled down and is no longer giving me the blue screens so it is functional. Previously, I was not waiting for all hard drive activity to stop before starting to use the facilities but since I've done that it seems less flaky. Is that a reasonable conclusion?
2. I did speak to the Trend Micro anti-viral program techsupport and they gave me instructions involving uninstalling the current installation and then reinstalling an updated Trend Micro Internet Security 2005 program. I'm very curious about how this would work and would like to try it since I was still getting those TmProxy messages as the program initializes itself. Since I want to follow your instructions so that I don't make my problems worse, I thought I should run this by you. May I? And I would end its task prior to installing and uninstalling processes.
Thanks
Bob
Just a quick note to update this question. I have received a Dr. Watson log file, an MSInfo32 report, and the report generated by Registry First Aid.
I will have to look very carefully at them all, specifically for problem areas, but on first glance I notice the following:
1. Registry First Aid Report - as anticipated, the vast majority of the "errors" relate to redundant data and "Most recently Used" files that are still stored in the registry, but the referenced files are no longer where they should be. I will provide a list (by number) of those that relate to the problem, and the rest should be safe to allow Registry First Aid to "fix" them.
2. MSInfo32 Report - There appear to be quite a few driver files listed as "not installed". Some of these will be red herrings, and may simply refer to ancilliary files that aren't actually drivers, but I will look more carefully at these.
3. Dr. Watson - You have an awful lot of "startup" programs being launched, and this is an area that perhaps needs to be addressed while working to fix the current problems. I will work my way through the list and see which ones you need and which you don't.
I will look at your post above shortly, and report back with my observations.
Bill
I will have to look very carefully at them all, specifically for problem areas, but on first glance I notice the following:
1. Registry First Aid Report - as anticipated, the vast majority of the "errors" relate to redundant data and "Most recently Used" files that are still stored in the registry, but the referenced files are no longer where they should be. I will provide a list (by number) of those that relate to the problem, and the rest should be safe to allow Registry First Aid to "fix" them.
2. MSInfo32 Report - There appear to be quite a few driver files listed as "not installed". Some of these will be red herrings, and may simply refer to ancilliary files that aren't actually drivers, but I will look more carefully at these.
3. Dr. Watson - You have an awful lot of "startup" programs being launched, and this is an area that perhaps needs to be addressed while working to fix the current problems. I will work my way through the list and see which ones you need and which you don't.
I will look at your post above shortly, and report back with my observations.
Bill
ASKER
I appreciate your help.
I've known that I have "an awful lot of 'startup' programs" but never got around to any scientific review of them but I had removed some of them from the Startup lineup. Now, the only Startup programs I'm aware of are accessible in the MSCONFIG - System Configuration Utility.
Can you answer these 2 questions that I mentioned above - without studying those files I sent?:
1. Somehow my computer has settled down and is no longer giving me the blue screens so it is functional. The only thing I have been doing differently is that I started to wait for all hard drive activity to settle down completely before using the system. Since I've done that, it seems less flaky and some programs are even opening more quickly and a program that wasn't opening has started doing so again. Can all those good things be attributed to simply waiting for all that boot up hard drive activity to stop before using the system?
2. I did speak to the Trend Micro anti-viral program techsupport and they gave me instructions involving uninstalling the current installation and then reinstalling an updated Trend Micro Internet Security 2005 program. I'm very curious about how this would work and would like to try it since I was still getting those TmProxy messages as the program initializes itself and I'm not getting the messages that usually appeared when I opened my email client to receive email or sent out emai telling me that the anti-viral program was workingl. Since I want to follow your instructions so that I don't make my problems worse, I thought I should run this by you.
Bob
I've known that I have "an awful lot of 'startup' programs" but never got around to any scientific review of them but I had removed some of them from the Startup lineup. Now, the only Startup programs I'm aware of are accessible in the MSCONFIG - System Configuration Utility.
Can you answer these 2 questions that I mentioned above - without studying those files I sent?:
1. Somehow my computer has settled down and is no longer giving me the blue screens so it is functional. The only thing I have been doing differently is that I started to wait for all hard drive activity to settle down completely before using the system. Since I've done that, it seems less flaky and some programs are even opening more quickly and a program that wasn't opening has started doing so again. Can all those good things be attributed to simply waiting for all that boot up hard drive activity to stop before using the system?
2. I did speak to the Trend Micro anti-viral program techsupport and they gave me instructions involving uninstalling the current installation and then reinstalling an updated Trend Micro Internet Security 2005 program. I'm very curious about how this would work and would like to try it since I was still getting those TmProxy messages as the program initializes itself and I'm not getting the messages that usually appeared when I opened my email client to receive email or sent out emai telling me that the anti-viral program was workingl. Since I want to follow your instructions so that I don't make my problems worse, I thought I should run this by you.
Bob
I know it sounds like a crazy thing to say, but I am convinced that computers have some "self-healing" properties or, more accurately, Windows has some uncanny abilities to eventually iron out problem areas. I've spoken of the utility named RegClean a few times, and had cause to use it two days ago on someone's computer. I was uninstalling Office 2000 Small Business Edition and installing Office 2000 Premium so that the user had full use of PowerPoint and Frontpage that didn't seem to be offered by the previous version. She has used the computer for a while since it was last formatted, and has installed and uninstalled a lot of programs since then, so I thought it could do with a registry cleanup, a defrag, scandisk, etc. I uninstalled MS Office, rebooted, and ran RegClean.
I always check the changes that RegClean has made before I reboot, and was happy enough to find that it had picked up on a lot of now redundant vestiges of MS Office, so I rebooted. I noticed a file sharing program that the user no longer wanted, so I uninstalled it, rebooted, and ran RegClean again. As well as picking up the left-overs from THAT program, it identified yet more redundant MS Office settings which it had fixed. Out of curiosity, I rebooted and ran RegClean once again. I was amazed when it found even more MS Office debris.
The only thing I can deduce from this experience (and other puzzling ones I have mused over previously) is that removing one registry setting will then leave another existing one isolated so that it is then identified as a redundant setting, or can even create a new registry entry almost by way of compensation. There are some configuration settings that are not actually effected until the next boot, so my view is that this knock-on scenario may actually be capable of resolving problems after quite a few reboots even where no changes have been made between reboots. Self Healing? :-) Perhaps this is a valid explanation of what you are witnessing.
I prefer to think that it is due to the fact that you are hanging back before accessing programs when you start up your computer. There is often a lot going on in the background even though your taskbar, system tray, and desktop have appeared, and the hourglass cursor has reverted to the normal state. You may not hear the hard drive, or see an activity LED to warn that processes are still loading. Programs that load from a shortcut in your start menu's "startup" folder are the last to load, and can do so a fair while after the desktop environment has fully loaded. Your Epson Status Monitor 2 is such a process. As you acknowledged, you have a lot of startup processes, so it is certainly a good idea to be patient and wait a few moments after everything appears to have loaded.
Your Trend Micro application errors will probably be sorted out by uninstalling and then updating the application, and I would follow their guidelines. Without knowing their advice, I would hazard a guess that you would disable as many of the protection features as possible from within the application's user settings, reboot, and then uninstall. That way none of the data files would be in use by the program, and could be completely removed. That advice is pretty universal, but perhaps they have some other specific steps to follow.
Maybe it would be better to leave off installing the updated application until after we have addressed the multimedia issue.
I will get back to you as quickly as I can with the other promised actions.
I always check the changes that RegClean has made before I reboot, and was happy enough to find that it had picked up on a lot of now redundant vestiges of MS Office, so I rebooted. I noticed a file sharing program that the user no longer wanted, so I uninstalled it, rebooted, and ran RegClean again. As well as picking up the left-overs from THAT program, it identified yet more redundant MS Office settings which it had fixed. Out of curiosity, I rebooted and ran RegClean once again. I was amazed when it found even more MS Office debris.
The only thing I can deduce from this experience (and other puzzling ones I have mused over previously) is that removing one registry setting will then leave another existing one isolated so that it is then identified as a redundant setting, or can even create a new registry entry almost by way of compensation. There are some configuration settings that are not actually effected until the next boot, so my view is that this knock-on scenario may actually be capable of resolving problems after quite a few reboots even where no changes have been made between reboots. Self Healing? :-) Perhaps this is a valid explanation of what you are witnessing.
I prefer to think that it is due to the fact that you are hanging back before accessing programs when you start up your computer. There is often a lot going on in the background even though your taskbar, system tray, and desktop have appeared, and the hourglass cursor has reverted to the normal state. You may not hear the hard drive, or see an activity LED to warn that processes are still loading. Programs that load from a shortcut in your start menu's "startup" folder are the last to load, and can do so a fair while after the desktop environment has fully loaded. Your Epson Status Monitor 2 is such a process. As you acknowledged, you have a lot of startup processes, so it is certainly a good idea to be patient and wait a few moments after everything appears to have loaded.
Your Trend Micro application errors will probably be sorted out by uninstalling and then updating the application, and I would follow their guidelines. Without knowing their advice, I would hazard a guess that you would disable as many of the protection features as possible from within the application's user settings, reboot, and then uninstall. That way none of the data files would be in use by the program, and could be completely removed. That advice is pretty universal, but perhaps they have some other specific steps to follow.
Maybe it would be better to leave off installing the updated application until after we have addressed the multimedia issue.
I will get back to you as quickly as I can with the other promised actions.
ASKER
I'm not arguing with you about the Trend Micro uninstall-reinstall, I'm just discussing it. It seems that you are "kind of" telling me to hold back on the reinstallation until we have settled the multimedia problem. But, let me add further facts:
There is no doubt that the anti-viral program is malfunctioning (it is also a firewall but I don't how well the firewall is performing):
1) It is still giving me the "The TmProxy module experienced a critical error" message each time it initializes on my computer.
2) It is still giving the more frequent spontaneous messages telling that "New components detected, do I want to update?" This seems to be a malfunction also because that many new components there just couldn't be. If that were the case, I'd want to buy into the company since they must have the entire programming community on their payroll and at the rate that progam is giving out components updates it must be the most advanced anti-viral program in the world and no virus will have a chance since at that rate they will soon be into 2008 components.
3) When the system seems to be slowed, and, for example, when I have clicked on the browser icon and it doesn't open, if I check the tasks in the Task Manager, it shows the Tsc task which, I believe, is the Trend System Cleaner (but I've also seen Trojan system cleaner so I don't know which.) Prior to the start of my Trend Micro program problems I never saw this but now with each bootup this task eventually appears and when it does, I suppose, it is trying to do its job and that slows things down on my computer. So, I surmise, it must be trying to clean something up and could be a sign of Trend Micro program malfunction (or some other malfunction) but I'm sure your surmises are better than mine.
4) There is no anti-viral protection, at least, as far as my email goes because a message would appear when it was checking my incoming and outgoing email that told me the email was being monitored but this no longer appears.
So, I'd like to make a plea to let me get rid of the malfunctioning anti-viral firewall program before we work on the multimedia issue, and here you can correct my faulty logic, if present:
1) I need to restore my anti-viral firewall protection and get rid of its malfunctioning.
2) Couldn't the malfunctioning Trend Micro program also interfere with the ability to correct the multimedia issue?
3) Couldn't the unexpected appearance of that Tsc task, interfere with whatever else we might be trying to do?
It seemed that you were approving the reinstallation in one paragraph and disapproving it in the next sentence about the multmedia issue so I'm a bit confused. However, in your guess about their instructions, you thought they might disable any protection features from within the program and reboot prior to uninstallation but they didn't do this. But in their uninstall instructions they also added that I should delete the Trend Micro folder on my computer after it is uninstalled which might take care of removing the data files that you mentioned.
Now, I'm not asking that you respond to all that, other than to tell me, since I have more fully informed you, the answer to the question - can I uninstall-reinstall the program now or not?
Thank you.
Bob
There is no doubt that the anti-viral program is malfunctioning (it is also a firewall but I don't how well the firewall is performing):
1) It is still giving me the "The TmProxy module experienced a critical error" message each time it initializes on my computer.
2) It is still giving the more frequent spontaneous messages telling that "New components detected, do I want to update?" This seems to be a malfunction also because that many new components there just couldn't be. If that were the case, I'd want to buy into the company since they must have the entire programming community on their payroll and at the rate that progam is giving out components updates it must be the most advanced anti-viral program in the world and no virus will have a chance since at that rate they will soon be into 2008 components.
3) When the system seems to be slowed, and, for example, when I have clicked on the browser icon and it doesn't open, if I check the tasks in the Task Manager, it shows the Tsc task which, I believe, is the Trend System Cleaner (but I've also seen Trojan system cleaner so I don't know which.) Prior to the start of my Trend Micro program problems I never saw this but now with each bootup this task eventually appears and when it does, I suppose, it is trying to do its job and that slows things down on my computer. So, I surmise, it must be trying to clean something up and could be a sign of Trend Micro program malfunction (or some other malfunction) but I'm sure your surmises are better than mine.
4) There is no anti-viral protection, at least, as far as my email goes because a message would appear when it was checking my incoming and outgoing email that told me the email was being monitored but this no longer appears.
So, I'd like to make a plea to let me get rid of the malfunctioning anti-viral firewall program before we work on the multimedia issue, and here you can correct my faulty logic, if present:
1) I need to restore my anti-viral firewall protection and get rid of its malfunctioning.
2) Couldn't the malfunctioning Trend Micro program also interfere with the ability to correct the multimedia issue?
3) Couldn't the unexpected appearance of that Tsc task, interfere with whatever else we might be trying to do?
It seemed that you were approving the reinstallation in one paragraph and disapproving it in the next sentence about the multmedia issue so I'm a bit confused. However, in your guess about their instructions, you thought they might disable any protection features from within the program and reboot prior to uninstallation but they didn't do this. But in their uninstall instructions they also added that I should delete the Trend Micro folder on my computer after it is uninstalled which might take care of removing the data files that you mentioned.
Now, I'm not asking that you respond to all that, other than to tell me, since I have more fully informed you, the answer to the question - can I uninstall-reinstall the program now or not?
Thank you.
Bob
The answer is YES, you can uninstall and reinstall either the original program or the update, as instructed by Trend Micro. Having examined some of your reports emailed to me, I can see that one or more of the Trend Micro/PC-Cillin processes listed in the registry to run at startup has no command detailed against the entry. This means that your system sees the entry, but doesn't know what to do with it.
One specific "machine service" registry startup that I am referring to is "TmPfw.exe".
From the evaluation version of Trend Micro Internet Security 2005 that I downloaded and dissected without installaing, I see that this file is quite obviously the main component for the "Trend Micro Personal Firewall". In other words, your firewall isn't being launched as intended. You should also be aware that the Firewall (and ancilliary files) are dependent upon the WinSock components installed. These can become corrupt, and there is a "fix" utility for Winsock available for download from the following link. Just unzip the single file "WinsockFix.exe" to any folder and execute it, preferably from Safe Mode:
http://www.tacktech.com/pub/winsockfix/WinsockFix.zip
Another "Trend Micro" problem area is that you have identically-named executable files being launched from both the registry and from shortcuts in your Start Menu's "startup folder", and each instance is launching the executable from different program folders. I see this a stong contendor for causing some conflict. The specific files are "pccguide.exe" and "pccpfw.exe". The latter one obviously relates to your firewall again. The specific folders from which these programs are being launched from, and should be deleted before reinstalling the application, are:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\Internet Security 2005\"
The TSC.EXE program file that you have referred to is the "Trend Micro Damage Cleanup Engine", and looks like it is intended to be run as a "post cleanup" operation from DOS or during the first stages of Windows boot after a virus eradication. There is also an associate popup window (TSC.HTM) that would no doubt appear after the cleanup operation, and would read:
"Trend Micro PC-cillin Internet Security Notification
Trojan Cleanup Service
Trend Micro PC-cillin Internet Security has detected a Trojan horse program and performed the action specified.
Virus name:
%VirusName%
Action result:
%ActionResult%"
The purpose of the %Virusname% and %ActionResult% variables are to provide an online link (or perhaps to an internal database file) to a Virus Encyclopaedia, and display details of exactly what actions were performed. These %variables% will be sourced from a logfile created by TSC.EXE, and the instructions dictating how TSC.EXE should run are taken from the file settings file TSC.INI. This file contains instructions to create or restore registry (and other) backups, and also the text strings displayed in messages:
MsgTitle=Damage Cleanup Engine (DCE)
VirusMsg=Virus Found:
NoVirusMsg=No Virus Found
Reboot=Please reboot your system to clean trojan.
Reclean=Please reboot your system and run TSC.exe again.
VirusAssessMsg=Virus Found:
CleanFailedMsg=Clean Failed:
Hopefully uninstalling and reinstalling the "Trend Micro" application suite will restore functionality of the areas above that are faulty, including the "TmProxy" error that probably relates to the disfunctional firewall.
It should be obvious to you now why I have faced the dilemma of whether or not you should try and fix the Trend Micro problems NOW, or whether you should uninstall the application and leave off reinstalling it until after you have addressed the multimedia issue. These issues are only known to me after having seen the files you emailed to me, and could not have been known to me without those files. This has caused further complications and delays to resolving the original problem and, in all probability, the issues are completely unrelated and coincidental. These are the type of time wasting problems that prompt technicians to wipe the hard drive and reinstall from scratch, because they simply don't have the time to track down and isolate individual problems. While I am attempting to assist you in resolving the immediate issues using the "long-hand" method, I still have to say that, if it was my system, I would be sorely tempted by this stage to start afresh.
You currently have 25 processes being launched as "startup" programs from your registry, and a further 6 being launched from shortcuts in your "startup group" folder. My opinion is that many of these are superfluous, and could be launched manually when needed. I have provided specific observations about each one in a response that is too lengthy to paste here, but which I will email back to you. My advice, for each one that I suspect to be unnecessary, is to try and disable the startup from within the respective program or application, and disable it from startup using msconfig.exe if no such user options are available.
Another potential problem area that I have identified is the existence of two separate "Program Files" folders:
C:\Program Files - windows default
D:\Program Files
You have the vast majority of programs installed to the default Windows "program files" folder, but you have:
Caere/ScanSoft Omnipage
EasyDesk System Sentry
Microtek Scanner utilities
AJ Systems Express Assist Outlook Express Backup utility
Some of your Acronis True Image programs
all installed to the D:\Program Files folder.
I don't know how this has transpired, nor whether this would necessarily impact on any other programs that might contribute to your current problems, but it is another spanner in the works that needs some explanation. It is also a contributory factor to the massive number of Registry First Aid "errors" shown in the report you emailed to me. I haven't finished studying it in full, but a huge number of redundant registry enties reference programs that have been run from drives other than the C: Drive.
Until I respond to you with my full appraisal of the files you emailed to me, I suggest that you:
1. Uninstall the Trend Micro application suite
2. Delete the folders left over after uninstallation
3. Run the WinSock Fix utility
4. Reinstall the Trend Micro application suite or updated version of same.
Regards
Bill
One specific "machine service" registry startup that I am referring to is "TmPfw.exe".
From the evaluation version of Trend Micro Internet Security 2005 that I downloaded and dissected without installaing, I see that this file is quite obviously the main component for the "Trend Micro Personal Firewall". In other words, your firewall isn't being launched as intended. You should also be aware that the Firewall (and ancilliary files) are dependent upon the WinSock components installed. These can become corrupt, and there is a "fix" utility for Winsock available for download from the following link. Just unzip the single file "WinsockFix.exe" to any folder and execute it, preferably from Safe Mode:
http://www.tacktech.com/pub/winsockfix/WinsockFix.zip
Another "Trend Micro" problem area is that you have identically-named executable files being launched from both the registry and from shortcuts in your Start Menu's "startup folder", and each instance is launching the executable from different program folders. I see this a stong contendor for causing some conflict. The specific files are "pccguide.exe" and "pccpfw.exe". The latter one obviously relates to your firewall again. The specific folders from which these programs are being launched from, and should be deleted before reinstalling the application, are:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\Internet Security 2005\"
The TSC.EXE program file that you have referred to is the "Trend Micro Damage Cleanup Engine", and looks like it is intended to be run as a "post cleanup" operation from DOS or during the first stages of Windows boot after a virus eradication. There is also an associate popup window (TSC.HTM) that would no doubt appear after the cleanup operation, and would read:
"Trend Micro PC-cillin Internet Security Notification
Trojan Cleanup Service
Trend Micro PC-cillin Internet Security has detected a Trojan horse program and performed the action specified.
Virus name:
%VirusName%
Action result:
%ActionResult%"
The purpose of the %Virusname% and %ActionResult% variables are to provide an online link (or perhaps to an internal database file) to a Virus Encyclopaedia, and display details of exactly what actions were performed. These %variables% will be sourced from a logfile created by TSC.EXE, and the instructions dictating how TSC.EXE should run are taken from the file settings file TSC.INI. This file contains instructions to create or restore registry (and other) backups, and also the text strings displayed in messages:
MsgTitle=Damage Cleanup Engine (DCE)
VirusMsg=Virus Found:
NoVirusMsg=No Virus Found
Reboot=Please reboot your system to clean trojan.
Reclean=Please reboot your system and run TSC.exe again.
VirusAssessMsg=Virus Found:
CleanFailedMsg=Clean Failed:
Hopefully uninstalling and reinstalling the "Trend Micro" application suite will restore functionality of the areas above that are faulty, including the "TmProxy" error that probably relates to the disfunctional firewall.
It should be obvious to you now why I have faced the dilemma of whether or not you should try and fix the Trend Micro problems NOW, or whether you should uninstall the application and leave off reinstalling it until after you have addressed the multimedia issue. These issues are only known to me after having seen the files you emailed to me, and could not have been known to me without those files. This has caused further complications and delays to resolving the original problem and, in all probability, the issues are completely unrelated and coincidental. These are the type of time wasting problems that prompt technicians to wipe the hard drive and reinstall from scratch, because they simply don't have the time to track down and isolate individual problems. While I am attempting to assist you in resolving the immediate issues using the "long-hand" method, I still have to say that, if it was my system, I would be sorely tempted by this stage to start afresh.
You currently have 25 processes being launched as "startup" programs from your registry, and a further 6 being launched from shortcuts in your "startup group" folder. My opinion is that many of these are superfluous, and could be launched manually when needed. I have provided specific observations about each one in a response that is too lengthy to paste here, but which I will email back to you. My advice, for each one that I suspect to be unnecessary, is to try and disable the startup from within the respective program or application, and disable it from startup using msconfig.exe if no such user options are available.
Another potential problem area that I have identified is the existence of two separate "Program Files" folders:
C:\Program Files - windows default
D:\Program Files
You have the vast majority of programs installed to the default Windows "program files" folder, but you have:
Caere/ScanSoft Omnipage
EasyDesk System Sentry
Microtek Scanner utilities
AJ Systems Express Assist Outlook Express Backup utility
Some of your Acronis True Image programs
all installed to the D:\Program Files folder.
I don't know how this has transpired, nor whether this would necessarily impact on any other programs that might contribute to your current problems, but it is another spanner in the works that needs some explanation. It is also a contributory factor to the massive number of Registry First Aid "errors" shown in the report you emailed to me. I haven't finished studying it in full, but a huge number of redundant registry enties reference programs that have been run from drives other than the C: Drive.
Until I respond to you with my full appraisal of the files you emailed to me, I suggest that you:
1. Uninstall the Trend Micro application suite
2. Delete the folders left over after uninstallation
3. Run the WinSock Fix utility
4. Reinstall the Trend Micro application suite or updated version of same.
Regards
Bill
I have also found a reference to "C:\SC\WINMBR.EXE" being run as a registry "machine service" startup program.
The C:\SC folder tends to indicate that this is a "System Commander" Partition Manager and Boot Manager used to allow you to boot to different Operating Systems.
Do you have your hard drive partitioned to provide you with a Multi-OS system?
If so, then this would certainly explain your apparent hesitancy when faced with the future possibility of reinstalling Windows, and these are some of the details that we really need to know about at the outset if this scenario is true.
The C:\SC folder tends to indicate that this is a "System Commander" Partition Manager and Boot Manager used to allow you to boot to different Operating Systems.
Do you have your hard drive partitioned to provide you with a Multi-OS system?
If so, then this would certainly explain your apparent hesitancy when faced with the future possibility of reinstalling Windows, and these are some of the details that we really need to know about at the outset if this scenario is true.
ASKER
I forgot to tell you that I have Space Commander on my system. When I installed Partition Manager, it was automatically installed but I have never used it in any way except to boot into the Windows98Se system. And it does offer a very easy way for me to boot into Safe mode since I just press my <ctrl> key when I press enter to get rid of the Space Commander prompt. I hope it doesn't represent any other difficulty.
But, since you have mentioned it and its threat does seem to loom over these proceedings, I will explain my hesitancy in reinstalling Windows which is basically ignorance of what to expect:
1. If I’m reinstalling my operating system on top of my current operating system so that I have a refreshed operating system, will that produce a system that does not recognize all the applications that are actually present because the registry will no longer recognize them?
2. I would hate to have to reinstall the operating system and the applications for the following reasons:
a. I, naturally, would like to be able to have the same system that I currently have set up and there is no way of ensuring that if I do reinstall.
b. For applications I would have to reinstall, reregister the software, and reconfigure, I can’t remember all those settings nor am I sure that I can recover the serial numbers some of which may be needed to activate a particular application.
3. Would the Windows Updates performed over a 6 year period still be available or would I have a system crippled by the inability to restore some earlier needed updates because they are no longer available?
4. Because of those unrecognized applications by the reinstalled system will that lead to either:
a) A system that won’t function because of the mere presence of those unrecognized applications? Or,
b) Will the presence of one of those unrecognized programs be recognized when I would attempt to open that program and be presented with a message telling me that something is not present (even though it is?) or
c) Could the attempt at opening an unrecognized application lead to a fatal error?
5. If I have a reinstalled operating system, does a program that is no longer recognized have to be uninstalled first, and, if so, will they still be recognized in the Add/Remove Programs Properties box?
6. I think you mentioned something about having to reinstall applications in the order of earliest to most recent. If that is correct, what would happen if I tried to reinstall them in an incorrect order?
7. If it is necessary to reinstall those programs back in their original order, earliest to most recent, could this be determined by finding the dates of the program folders in the Program Files menu listings from their Properties boxes?
Kind of like turning over a rock and having all sorts of thing crawl out from under it. Sorry.
Bob
But, since you have mentioned it and its threat does seem to loom over these proceedings, I will explain my hesitancy in reinstalling Windows which is basically ignorance of what to expect:
1. If I’m reinstalling my operating system on top of my current operating system so that I have a refreshed operating system, will that produce a system that does not recognize all the applications that are actually present because the registry will no longer recognize them?
2. I would hate to have to reinstall the operating system and the applications for the following reasons:
a. I, naturally, would like to be able to have the same system that I currently have set up and there is no way of ensuring that if I do reinstall.
b. For applications I would have to reinstall, reregister the software, and reconfigure, I can’t remember all those settings nor am I sure that I can recover the serial numbers some of which may be needed to activate a particular application.
3. Would the Windows Updates performed over a 6 year period still be available or would I have a system crippled by the inability to restore some earlier needed updates because they are no longer available?
4. Because of those unrecognized applications by the reinstalled system will that lead to either:
a) A system that won’t function because of the mere presence of those unrecognized applications? Or,
b) Will the presence of one of those unrecognized programs be recognized when I would attempt to open that program and be presented with a message telling me that something is not present (even though it is?) or
c) Could the attempt at opening an unrecognized application lead to a fatal error?
5. If I have a reinstalled operating system, does a program that is no longer recognized have to be uninstalled first, and, if so, will they still be recognized in the Add/Remove Programs Properties box?
6. I think you mentioned something about having to reinstall applications in the order of earliest to most recent. If that is correct, what would happen if I tried to reinstall them in an incorrect order?
7. If it is necessary to reinstall those programs back in their original order, earliest to most recent, could this be determined by finding the dates of the program folders in the Program Files menu listings from their Properties boxes?
Kind of like turning over a rock and having all sorts of thing crawl out from under it. Sorry.
Bob
I can understand your trepidation, given that you have built up the system over such a period of time.
When reinstalling Windows 98 on top of itself, UNLESS you specifically use a command line option telling it to "ignore current configuration files and registry settings", it will normally do the following:
1. Determine what Windows "optional components" are installed and, depending on whether you choose the "typical" or "custom" options, will figure out if any components need to be added or removed.
2. Consult the registry to determine what file versions are currently installed, and will update older files to bring them up to the Windows 98 (or 98se) versions.
3. Recognise the presence of other Microsoft Applications and third-party applications, and preserve their registry settings and configurations.
4. Restore any missing default system folders if they are found to be missing.
5. Copy and register new versions of native Win98 system files if any are found to be missing.
6. Identify the currently-installed hardware and software devices, and preserve their settings and installed driver files. If any hardware has been removed, then it will usually try to remove redundant settings from the registry and/or configuration files.
Reinstalling Win98/98SE on top of itself DOES NOT NORMALLY overwrite currently-installed system files that are found to be of a more recent version than the files that would be installed from the CD.
There are exceptions to every "rule" though, and I do know that the DirectX components that are so heavily integrated into the Windows system are knocked backwards to version 6 that is installed from the Windows CD. The system will always be able to boot, despite these changes, and reinstalling the more recent DirectX Version again updates the components back to what they were. In your case, you would have to reinstall DirectX 9c.
As far as Windows Updates are concerned, I have a list of those that have been installed on your system and would make absolutely sure that all of them are still available through Windows Update IF it came to the decision to perform an reinstallation. What you have to remember here is that most of the Windows Updates and patches that you installed 6 years ago will have long-since been superseded by more recent releases anyway.
Windows Updates are sometimes affected by performing a dirty ireinstall, but I have never had any problems in this respect, and rerunning Windows Update takes care of any file version issues.
The "Add/Remove Programs" list is stored in the registry, and invariably remains unaltered by doing a dirty install. The Windows Installation process has no need to access any of the Program folders for non-Microsoft programs, and so they are left intact as is the contents of your "My Documents" folder.
IF, however, you had ever relocated your "My Documents" folder (or other User Shell folder) to another drive, then there is a possibility that a new one would be created in the default location, and your relocated folder may lose its "system folder" attributes even though the contents remain unaffected.
I have had the very odd and random error message when opening an MS Office 2000 application after a dirty install, but reinstalling (or "repairing") Office invariably fixes the problem. These errors are usually caused by replacement of an MS Office "shared file" by an older version, and because Office 2000 files are more recent than the Win98 ones, they are updated again by reinstalling or repairing MS Office.
I always make a point of reinstalling Internet Explorer after a dirty install, but before running Windows update. This wouldn't present any problem to you, as you have IE 6 SP1 installed, and any missing components would be fetched VERY quickly by the online installer, and the reinstall/repair would not take long at all.
Anyway, reinstalling Windows is being left as a very last resort in this instance.
Bill
When reinstalling Windows 98 on top of itself, UNLESS you specifically use a command line option telling it to "ignore current configuration files and registry settings", it will normally do the following:
1. Determine what Windows "optional components" are installed and, depending on whether you choose the "typical" or "custom" options, will figure out if any components need to be added or removed.
2. Consult the registry to determine what file versions are currently installed, and will update older files to bring them up to the Windows 98 (or 98se) versions.
3. Recognise the presence of other Microsoft Applications and third-party applications, and preserve their registry settings and configurations.
4. Restore any missing default system folders if they are found to be missing.
5. Copy and register new versions of native Win98 system files if any are found to be missing.
6. Identify the currently-installed hardware and software devices, and preserve their settings and installed driver files. If any hardware has been removed, then it will usually try to remove redundant settings from the registry and/or configuration files.
Reinstalling Win98/98SE on top of itself DOES NOT NORMALLY overwrite currently-installed system files that are found to be of a more recent version than the files that would be installed from the CD.
There are exceptions to every "rule" though, and I do know that the DirectX components that are so heavily integrated into the Windows system are knocked backwards to version 6 that is installed from the Windows CD. The system will always be able to boot, despite these changes, and reinstalling the more recent DirectX Version again updates the components back to what they were. In your case, you would have to reinstall DirectX 9c.
As far as Windows Updates are concerned, I have a list of those that have been installed on your system and would make absolutely sure that all of them are still available through Windows Update IF it came to the decision to perform an reinstallation. What you have to remember here is that most of the Windows Updates and patches that you installed 6 years ago will have long-since been superseded by more recent releases anyway.
Windows Updates are sometimes affected by performing a dirty ireinstall, but I have never had any problems in this respect, and rerunning Windows Update takes care of any file version issues.
The "Add/Remove Programs" list is stored in the registry, and invariably remains unaltered by doing a dirty install. The Windows Installation process has no need to access any of the Program folders for non-Microsoft programs, and so they are left intact as is the contents of your "My Documents" folder.
IF, however, you had ever relocated your "My Documents" folder (or other User Shell folder) to another drive, then there is a possibility that a new one would be created in the default location, and your relocated folder may lose its "system folder" attributes even though the contents remain unaffected.
I have had the very odd and random error message when opening an MS Office 2000 application after a dirty install, but reinstalling (or "repairing") Office invariably fixes the problem. These errors are usually caused by replacement of an MS Office "shared file" by an older version, and because Office 2000 files are more recent than the Win98 ones, they are updated again by reinstalling or repairing MS Office.
I always make a point of reinstalling Internet Explorer after a dirty install, but before running Windows update. This wouldn't present any problem to you, as you have IE 6 SP1 installed, and any missing components would be fetched VERY quickly by the online installer, and the reinstall/repair would not take long at all.
Anyway, reinstalling Windows is being left as a very last resort in this instance.
Bill
Oh yes, I meant to comment on the Boot Manager program. Because it runs and then unloads from memory immediately, it doesn't consume system resources. I don't think this has any significance now that you have explained its presence. My worry was that you had different Operating Systems on your other partitions, and you may have ended up losing the ability to boot into one or more of them.
In the unlikely event that a dirty reinstall of Windows overwrote the MBR and reverted to the standard Windows 98 boot options, presumably you could either reinstall Partition Manager to regain use of the current boot options, or just uninstall install it seeing as you don't actually use it for anything other than providing an alternative boot option.
In the unlikely event that a dirty reinstall of Windows overwrote the MBR and reverted to the standard Windows 98 boot options, presumably you could either reinstall Partition Manager to regain use of the current boot options, or just uninstall install it seeing as you don't actually use it for anything other than providing an alternative boot option.
ASKER
Among the sets of your posts, the DrWatson data review, and the MSInfo32 data review, I currently have information overload but I'm not complaining. Not to mention uninstalling and reinstalling the Trend Micro Internet Security application. It's just going to take a little time. I'll have to feed back some missing information for you and digest the material you have sent so bear with me.
Bob
Bob
ASKER
I should tell you, if you haven’t concluded it, that my hard drive is partitioned among 3 drives:
a C: System drive,
a D: Programs drive, and
an E: Data drive.
I install most programs on my D: drive when I am given the choice and when the installer does not give me the choice it is automatically installed on the C: drive
You were pointing out that you had found some anomalous things on my hard drive and I believe that the above description might explain some of that. However, there are some things that you mentioned that look peculiar to me too because I don't understand the concept of both "being launched from the registry" and "being launched from shortcuts in (my) Start Menu's "startup folder" :
As an example, you mentioned that you found the presence of 2 sets each of the pccguide.exe and pccpfw.exe files that you felt, if I'm not misunderstanding, were being launched from different locations. On my hard drive these files reside in the following folders:
pccguide.exe dated 11/25/03 942,142 bytes present in C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
pccguide.exe dated 11/25/03 942,142 bytes present in D:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
pccguide.exe dated 9/15/04 823,358 bytes present in C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\PCC2005_1244\Setup\p
pccguide.exe dated 11/30/04 815,166 bytes present in C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\Internet Security 2005\
This is the most recent upgrade
so it may be worse than you thought although from my standpoint I was just using a set of upgrades that didn't seem to conflict with my using the program without, as far as I knew any problems. You will notice that I, apparently, installed the same program onto the C: and D: drives although it is not clear to me how that happened.
Similarly, the other files reside in the following folders:
pccpfw.exe dated 11/25/03 700,475 bytes present in C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
pccpfw.exe dated 11/25/03 700,475 bytes present in D:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
These pccpfw.exe files correspond to the other pccguide.exe files that were installed in the C: and D: drives and as far as I knew there was no program malfunctioning of which I was aware.
Now, the instructions you gave me were to delete the folders left over after uninstallation. I will give you their instructions which were different somewhat in the uninstallation by using their uninstallation tool:
Instructions for uninstalling the 2005
1) Open my computer
2) Go to local disk c or drive c
3) Go to Program files folder
4) Go to TrendMicro folder
5) Go to the Internet Security 2005 folder
6) Inside the Internet Security 2005 folder look for the pctool.exe (its got an icon of a hammer and a pill)
7) Double click on the pcctool.exe
8) Go to uninstall tab
9) Click on the uninstall the pccillin
10) After uninstalling the pccillin delete the TrendMicro folder
11) Then install the pccillin again by double clicking on the file that we download.
It seems to me that since all the various versions reside in the Trend Micro folder and deleting that folder (if it remains) after the uninstallation process would neatly remove all the material under discussion.
However, one question bothers me. Since, presumably, I am only uninstalling the last 2005 upgrade version with this process, could there still be registry entries from the previous installations that could cause any difficulty (after all, I didn't, at this time, uninstall the previous versions and so no registry uninstallation process was applied for those previous versions)?
Bob
a C: System drive,
a D: Programs drive, and
an E: Data drive.
I install most programs on my D: drive when I am given the choice and when the installer does not give me the choice it is automatically installed on the C: drive
You were pointing out that you had found some anomalous things on my hard drive and I believe that the above description might explain some of that. However, there are some things that you mentioned that look peculiar to me too because I don't understand the concept of both "being launched from the registry" and "being launched from shortcuts in (my) Start Menu's "startup folder" :
As an example, you mentioned that you found the presence of 2 sets each of the pccguide.exe and pccpfw.exe files that you felt, if I'm not misunderstanding, were being launched from different locations. On my hard drive these files reside in the following folders:
pccguide.exe dated 11/25/03 942,142 bytes present in C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
pccguide.exe dated 11/25/03 942,142 bytes present in D:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
pccguide.exe dated 9/15/04 823,358 bytes present in C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\PCC2005_1244\Setup\p
pccguide.exe dated 11/30/04 815,166 bytes present in C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\Internet Security 2005\
This is the most recent upgrade
so it may be worse than you thought although from my standpoint I was just using a set of upgrades that didn't seem to conflict with my using the program without, as far as I knew any problems. You will notice that I, apparently, installed the same program onto the C: and D: drives although it is not clear to me how that happened.
Similarly, the other files reside in the following folders:
pccpfw.exe dated 11/25/03 700,475 bytes present in C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
pccpfw.exe dated 11/25/03 700,475 bytes present in D:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
These pccpfw.exe files correspond to the other pccguide.exe files that were installed in the C: and D: drives and as far as I knew there was no program malfunctioning of which I was aware.
Now, the instructions you gave me were to delete the folders left over after uninstallation. I will give you their instructions which were different somewhat in the uninstallation by using their uninstallation tool:
Instructions for uninstalling the 2005
1) Open my computer
2) Go to local disk c or drive c
3) Go to Program files folder
4) Go to TrendMicro folder
5) Go to the Internet Security 2005 folder
6) Inside the Internet Security 2005 folder look for the pctool.exe (its got an icon of a hammer and a pill)
7) Double click on the pcctool.exe
8) Go to uninstall tab
9) Click on the uninstall the pccillin
10) After uninstalling the pccillin delete the TrendMicro folder
11) Then install the pccillin again by double clicking on the file that we download.
It seems to me that since all the various versions reside in the Trend Micro folder and deleting that folder (if it remains) after the uninstallation process would neatly remove all the material under discussion.
However, one question bothers me. Since, presumably, I am only uninstalling the last 2005 upgrade version with this process, could there still be registry entries from the previous installations that could cause any difficulty (after all, I didn't, at this time, uninstall the previous versions and so no registry uninstallation process was applied for those previous versions)?
Bob
Hi Bob, and sorry about the "information overload". It's just that I felt it fair to fully explain my observations of what is running on your computer, and tried to do so in as non-technical a way as I could.
Briefly :-) There are several ways that programs are started on your computer, discounting the manual method of double-clicking on an .exe file.
A windows shortcut is a .LNK file type, but you never see that file extension, just the name. These are the files that exist on your Start Menu, Quick Launch Toolbar, and the files that are stored as "recently accessed" MS Office documents. If you Right-Click on any shortcut in your Start Menu and choose "properties", you will see (under the "shortcut" tab) the "Target" ie. the file that the shortcut launches, and other details such as the manner in which it is run. By placing a shortcut in the Start Menu's "startup folder", it is launched around the time that the Desktop, etc, is loading. All shortcuts can contain certain "options" or "switches" to determine the way they are launched. An example of a command line "switch" is the command to run ScanReg.exe:
C:\WINDOWS\scanregw.exe /autorun
I chose that example, because it would not be correct to run this program as a startup from a shortcut in the "startup" folder. This really needs to be run long before the Desktop, etc loads up, because its purpose is to check your registry for errors BEFORE Windows loads up. For this reason, certain programs are run at startup from commands placed in specific registry keys. The settings from different registry keys are run at different times during the boot process, and so certain commands are placed in the key best suited to what the command or setting needs to do.
The registry comprises two distinct areas. The "Local Machine" area that loads machine-specific settings that will impact on ALL users of that computer, and the "Current User" area that holds settings relevant to whichever user is logged onto the computer. Remember that Windows 98 supports multiple users, and each user can have their own settings for many aspects of Windows behaviour. There would be no sense in the computer trying to load a setting that related to an individual user BEFORE that user actually logged in, so the "Current User" settings are loaded after the "Local machine" ones.
To complicate things further, but hopefully explained simply here, there are 4 keys used to hold startup commands.
The "Run" key
The "RunOnce" key
The RunServices Key.
The "RunOnce" key is used to temporarily store a setting that needs to be run at the next reboot, and this is used by installer programs which create a command that is executed at the next reboot, and then is deleted.
The commands in the Run and RunServices keys are persistent. The "Run" key can be used to load machine-specific commands or "per-user" commands, while the "RunServices" key is only usually used on a machine-specific basis and for programs like AntiVirus programs, etc. There are differences in the timing of these commands being executed, but they are too complicated to enter into.
ALL of these "startup" entries can be enabled (ticked) or disabled (cleared) in MSCONFIG's "startup" tab. Where the startup program is a shortcut in the "startup folder", disabling it creates a new backup folder on your start menu named "disabled startup items", and the shortcut is moved there. Where the startup is loaded from a registry key, a new key with a minus sign after is is created, and the command moved into that. eg. a command in the "Run" key that is disabled will be moved into a new "Run-" key for as long as the box is unticked in MSCONFIG.
For this reason, it is a pretty safe and recommended troubleshooting step to disable all but the essential startups from MSCONFIG while trying to resolve a problem. I would suggest that the only ones that should be left to load (until the problems are resolved) are: ScanRegistry, SystemTray, and TaskMonitor. Where a problem is thought to be attributable to one or more startup programs, re-enabling them one at a time (with the required reboot in between) can often isolate the problem one.
The startup program for the "pcguide.exe" that resides in the folder:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
will show in the MSCONFIG startup tab as "Real-time Agent", and this is one launched from a shortcut in your Start menu's "startup" folder by that same name.
The entry in MSCONFIG by the name "pcguide.exe" is launching that program file from:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\Internet Security 2005\pccguide.exe"
using the registry.
The entry in MSCONFIG that appears by the name "PCCPFW" is launching "pccpfw.exe" from:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
using the registry.
The MSCONFIG entry named "PcCtlCom" is launching "pcctlcom.exe" from:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\Internet Security 2005\PcCtlCom.exe"
using the registry.
The MSCONFIG startup that will show with the name "TmPfw" is NOT BEING LAUNCHED at all because, although there is a registry VALUE named "TmPfw", there is NO COMMAND detailed against it. The system will TRY to run this startup, but will probably flounder around unnecessarily trying to find out what to do about this. This is the main component of the "Trend Micro Personal Firewall", which explains why that is disfunctional.
If "TmPfw.exe" WAS launched successfully, then it would look for the presence of the files:
TmPfwRul.dll (loads your "rules"), TmPfwLog.dll (creates or updates the log file), TmPfwHlp.dll (provides info text strings). It would probably also look for the file "TmPfw.INI", which is its "settings" file, but would probably create a new one if it didn't exist. Each one of these .DLL files should no doubt also be loading their own dependent files, so it's pretty hard to evaluate what WOULD happen if you manually created a command in the registry for "TmPfw.exe" and rebooted.
What I think has complicated the issue, and perhaps intentionally deleted the command set against the "TmPfw" startup item is the update or patch, suggested or offered by Trend Micro. Have a look at the startup listed above as "PCCPFW.EXE" which is being loaded by the registry from :
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
The program file "PccPfw.exe" sounds to me like "Pc-Cillin Personal Firewall", in which case there is some kind of conflict going on there.
In the "Evaluation" version of Trend Micro PC-cillin Internet Security 2005 that I downloaded, the file "PCCPFW.EXE" would not appear to be installed. I also downloaded "New Pattern Format Service Pack for PC-cillin v9.06" from :
http://www.trendmicro.com/ftp/products/npf/sp/en/pcc/pcc2002sp6en.exe
In THIS download, I can see that it installs the file PccPfw.exe. I can also see, having examined some of the setup configuration files used by the installer, that different versions of this software suite create different startup processes.
Version 12 installs and creates startup entries for "TmPfw" ONLY.
Versions 9, 10 and 11 install and creates startup entries for "PccPfw" ONLY
Versions 7 and 8 may INSTALL firewalls, but DO NOT creates startup entries for EITHER of the above programs. Perhaps the startup program name is different, but I don't know.
So, it would seem that you currently have a mix-up of versions on your system.
Have you looked in the Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs to see if there are two different listings of Trend Micro or Pc-Cillin that were installed separately, and can probably be UNinstalled separately?
To ascertain the "Version" that you have installed, find the files "PCC.EXE" and "SETUP.EXE" in the source folder or CD used to install them, and check each file's "properties". The PCC.EXE file will show the Version number eg. "12.0", while SETUP.EXE will show the Version and "Build Number", eg. 12.00.0.1244. The 1244 part at the end is the Build Number. This version number should show against most (if not all) of the Trend-Micro/Pc-Cillin files installed.
You are really going to have to try and uninstall this program to rectify the apparent conflicts and the fact that you have a parallel installation on different drives. I would follow the instructions as you have laid them out above. You will soon enough know if it uninstalls the folder from the D:\ Drive also.
These are just some of the problems that can ensue when you install programs into folders other than the default ones suggested by the program's installer.
In correspondence, I asked you to "export" the registry keys relating to "Shell Folders" and "User Shell Folders" so that I could ascertain whether the "Program Files" folder on your D: Drive is registered as either of these. This could be problematic either currently, or at some point in the future. The problem is that you have a lot of programs installed to that folder on the D: Drive, including MS Office, so it wouldn't be an easy thing to change. It MIGHT help with diagnosing other problem areas though.
Regards
Bill
Briefly :-) There are several ways that programs are started on your computer, discounting the manual method of double-clicking on an .exe file.
A windows shortcut is a .LNK file type, but you never see that file extension, just the name. These are the files that exist on your Start Menu, Quick Launch Toolbar, and the files that are stored as "recently accessed" MS Office documents. If you Right-Click on any shortcut in your Start Menu and choose "properties", you will see (under the "shortcut" tab) the "Target" ie. the file that the shortcut launches, and other details such as the manner in which it is run. By placing a shortcut in the Start Menu's "startup folder", it is launched around the time that the Desktop, etc, is loading. All shortcuts can contain certain "options" or "switches" to determine the way they are launched. An example of a command line "switch" is the command to run ScanReg.exe:
C:\WINDOWS\scanregw.exe /autorun
I chose that example, because it would not be correct to run this program as a startup from a shortcut in the "startup" folder. This really needs to be run long before the Desktop, etc loads up, because its purpose is to check your registry for errors BEFORE Windows loads up. For this reason, certain programs are run at startup from commands placed in specific registry keys. The settings from different registry keys are run at different times during the boot process, and so certain commands are placed in the key best suited to what the command or setting needs to do.
The registry comprises two distinct areas. The "Local Machine" area that loads machine-specific settings that will impact on ALL users of that computer, and the "Current User" area that holds settings relevant to whichever user is logged onto the computer. Remember that Windows 98 supports multiple users, and each user can have their own settings for many aspects of Windows behaviour. There would be no sense in the computer trying to load a setting that related to an individual user BEFORE that user actually logged in, so the "Current User" settings are loaded after the "Local machine" ones.
To complicate things further, but hopefully explained simply here, there are 4 keys used to hold startup commands.
The "Run" key
The "RunOnce" key
The RunServices Key.
The "RunOnce" key is used to temporarily store a setting that needs to be run at the next reboot, and this is used by installer programs which create a command that is executed at the next reboot, and then is deleted.
The commands in the Run and RunServices keys are persistent. The "Run" key can be used to load machine-specific commands or "per-user" commands, while the "RunServices" key is only usually used on a machine-specific basis and for programs like AntiVirus programs, etc. There are differences in the timing of these commands being executed, but they are too complicated to enter into.
ALL of these "startup" entries can be enabled (ticked) or disabled (cleared) in MSCONFIG's "startup" tab. Where the startup program is a shortcut in the "startup folder", disabling it creates a new backup folder on your start menu named "disabled startup items", and the shortcut is moved there. Where the startup is loaded from a registry key, a new key with a minus sign after is is created, and the command moved into that. eg. a command in the "Run" key that is disabled will be moved into a new "Run-" key for as long as the box is unticked in MSCONFIG.
For this reason, it is a pretty safe and recommended troubleshooting step to disable all but the essential startups from MSCONFIG while trying to resolve a problem. I would suggest that the only ones that should be left to load (until the problems are resolved) are: ScanRegistry, SystemTray, and TaskMonitor. Where a problem is thought to be attributable to one or more startup programs, re-enabling them one at a time (with the required reboot in between) can often isolate the problem one.
The startup program for the "pcguide.exe" that resides in the folder:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
will show in the MSCONFIG startup tab as "Real-time Agent", and this is one launched from a shortcut in your Start menu's "startup" folder by that same name.
The entry in MSCONFIG by the name "pcguide.exe" is launching that program file from:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\Internet Security 2005\pccguide.exe"
using the registry.
The entry in MSCONFIG that appears by the name "PCCPFW" is launching "pccpfw.exe" from:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
using the registry.
The MSCONFIG entry named "PcCtlCom" is launching "pcctlcom.exe" from:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\Internet Security 2005\PcCtlCom.exe"
using the registry.
The MSCONFIG startup that will show with the name "TmPfw" is NOT BEING LAUNCHED at all because, although there is a registry VALUE named "TmPfw", there is NO COMMAND detailed against it. The system will TRY to run this startup, but will probably flounder around unnecessarily trying to find out what to do about this. This is the main component of the "Trend Micro Personal Firewall", which explains why that is disfunctional.
If "TmPfw.exe" WAS launched successfully, then it would look for the presence of the files:
TmPfwRul.dll (loads your "rules"), TmPfwLog.dll (creates or updates the log file), TmPfwHlp.dll (provides info text strings). It would probably also look for the file "TmPfw.INI", which is its "settings" file, but would probably create a new one if it didn't exist. Each one of these .DLL files should no doubt also be loading their own dependent files, so it's pretty hard to evaluate what WOULD happen if you manually created a command in the registry for "TmPfw.exe" and rebooted.
What I think has complicated the issue, and perhaps intentionally deleted the command set against the "TmPfw" startup item is the update or patch, suggested or offered by Trend Micro. Have a look at the startup listed above as "PCCPFW.EXE" which is being loaded by the registry from :
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
The program file "PccPfw.exe" sounds to me like "Pc-Cillin Personal Firewall", in which case there is some kind of conflict going on there.
In the "Evaluation" version of Trend Micro PC-cillin Internet Security 2005 that I downloaded, the file "PCCPFW.EXE" would not appear to be installed. I also downloaded "New Pattern Format Service Pack for PC-cillin v9.06" from :
http://www.trendmicro.com/ftp/products/npf/sp/en/pcc/pcc2002sp6en.exe
In THIS download, I can see that it installs the file PccPfw.exe. I can also see, having examined some of the setup configuration files used by the installer, that different versions of this software suite create different startup processes.
Version 12 installs and creates startup entries for "TmPfw" ONLY.
Versions 9, 10 and 11 install and creates startup entries for "PccPfw" ONLY
Versions 7 and 8 may INSTALL firewalls, but DO NOT creates startup entries for EITHER of the above programs. Perhaps the startup program name is different, but I don't know.
So, it would seem that you currently have a mix-up of versions on your system.
Have you looked in the Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs to see if there are two different listings of Trend Micro or Pc-Cillin that were installed separately, and can probably be UNinstalled separately?
To ascertain the "Version" that you have installed, find the files "PCC.EXE" and "SETUP.EXE" in the source folder or CD used to install them, and check each file's "properties". The PCC.EXE file will show the Version number eg. "12.0", while SETUP.EXE will show the Version and "Build Number", eg. 12.00.0.1244. The 1244 part at the end is the Build Number. This version number should show against most (if not all) of the Trend-Micro/Pc-Cillin files installed.
You are really going to have to try and uninstall this program to rectify the apparent conflicts and the fact that you have a parallel installation on different drives. I would follow the instructions as you have laid them out above. You will soon enough know if it uninstalls the folder from the D:\ Drive also.
These are just some of the problems that can ensue when you install programs into folders other than the default ones suggested by the program's installer.
In correspondence, I asked you to "export" the registry keys relating to "Shell Folders" and "User Shell Folders" so that I could ascertain whether the "Program Files" folder on your D: Drive is registered as either of these. This could be problematic either currently, or at some point in the future. The problem is that you have a lot of programs installed to that folder on the D: Drive, including MS Office, so it wouldn't be an easy thing to change. It MIGHT help with diagnosing other problem areas though.
Regards
Bill
Bob
I have been plughing through your "Registry First Aid" report to see what I can recommend. In short, the vast majority of items listed seem to be regsitry settings created by a Program registered as "FileNavigator". Most programs store references to "most recently used2 folders and files, but this one appears to have deliberately tracked and stored paths to many hundreds of files on your computer.
From what I can see, there are two possibilities:
Possibility No. 1
------------------
FileNavigator Peer-to-Peer file sharing program that works like a Napster replacement.
http://www.sonicspot.com/filenavigator/filenavigator.html
I see that you previously had "Morpheus" installed, and that this has left some redundant registry entries, so this possibility is likely. By the way, if you HAVE uninstalled Morpheus, then delete its program folder at:
D:\Program Files\Morpheus Software.
Possibility No. 2
------------------
FileNavigator by a company named "IntelliAdmin". Their IntelliAdmin program is a retail program, and is described as a means to remotely access data on another computer over a network or internet connection.
In the right hands, this functionality is legitimate and useful, but see my comments in a moment.
http://www.daolnwod.com/intellimp3_10993.htm
"IntelliAdmin has patent pending technology that uses web protocols to work behind the most stringent firewalls. It disguises the remote control network traffic as standard web browsing. If the user can browse the web using Internet Explorer then you can remote into their computer".
I can't find many details about IntelliAdmin's "FileNavigator", because if this is the vendor's site, it sucks and has broken links. http://www.intelliadmin.com
I'm not sure if this page is related, and could be that they have licensed part of their functions:
http://www.componentsource.com/catalog.asp?SC=CS&PO=515543&option=12863&bhcp=1
or perhaps you have installed a program that uses its components.
Going back to "Possibility No. 1". IF this IS the program you installed, then the extensive number of files that it has tracked and recorded is worrying. Most P2P utilities allow you to set up one or more "shared folders" into which you place files that you are willing to allow others to share from your computer, and they shouldn't be allowed to see or access any other folders or files other than those you have allowed to be shared. The folders and files logged against the registry key "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
Could it be that this p2p program has actually taken and integrated the "FileNavigator" components from "Possibility No. 2" into its own program? I don't know, I'm afraid, because I don't expose my PC to the risks of p2p programs, but this concerns me. IF "Possibility No. 2" is the scenario, then you have less to worry about.
Going back briefly to your "multimedia" problems for a moment, perhaps you could confirm whether the following programs are still installed on your computer.
D:\Program Files\NewTech Infosystems\NTI Backup NOW!
D:\Program Files\Stomp\Backup MyPC
C:\Program Files\Musicmatch\MusicMatc
D:\Program Files\Real Alternative
One or more of these programs MAY have had some bearing on the Multimedia problems you experienced, so it would be handy to know.
Regarding your "Trend Micro" problem, please confirm if you still have Norton SystemWorks installed
D:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks.
I know you have Norton Ghost installed, but Norton AntiVirus and Firewall components MAY be causing a conflict of interest with Trend Micro.
Bill
I have been plughing through your "Registry First Aid" report to see what I can recommend. In short, the vast majority of items listed seem to be regsitry settings created by a Program registered as "FileNavigator". Most programs store references to "most recently used2 folders and files, but this one appears to have deliberately tracked and stored paths to many hundreds of files on your computer.
From what I can see, there are two possibilities:
Possibility No. 1
------------------
FileNavigator Peer-to-Peer file sharing program that works like a Napster replacement.
http://www.sonicspot.com/filenavigator/filenavigator.html
I see that you previously had "Morpheus" installed, and that this has left some redundant registry entries, so this possibility is likely. By the way, if you HAVE uninstalled Morpheus, then delete its program folder at:
D:\Program Files\Morpheus Software.
Possibility No. 2
------------------
FileNavigator by a company named "IntelliAdmin". Their IntelliAdmin program is a retail program, and is described as a means to remotely access data on another computer over a network or internet connection.
In the right hands, this functionality is legitimate and useful, but see my comments in a moment.
http://www.daolnwod.com/intellimp3_10993.htm
"IntelliAdmin has patent pending technology that uses web protocols to work behind the most stringent firewalls. It disguises the remote control network traffic as standard web browsing. If the user can browse the web using Internet Explorer then you can remote into their computer".
I can't find many details about IntelliAdmin's "FileNavigator", because if this is the vendor's site, it sucks and has broken links. http://www.intelliadmin.com
I'm not sure if this page is related, and could be that they have licensed part of their functions:
http://www.componentsource.com/catalog.asp?SC=CS&PO=515543&option=12863&bhcp=1
or perhaps you have installed a program that uses its components.
Going back to "Possibility No. 1". IF this IS the program you installed, then the extensive number of files that it has tracked and recorded is worrying. Most P2P utilities allow you to set up one or more "shared folders" into which you place files that you are willing to allow others to share from your computer, and they shouldn't be allowed to see or access any other folders or files other than those you have allowed to be shared. The folders and files logged against the registry key "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
Could it be that this p2p program has actually taken and integrated the "FileNavigator" components from "Possibility No. 2" into its own program? I don't know, I'm afraid, because I don't expose my PC to the risks of p2p programs, but this concerns me. IF "Possibility No. 2" is the scenario, then you have less to worry about.
Going back briefly to your "multimedia" problems for a moment, perhaps you could confirm whether the following programs are still installed on your computer.
D:\Program Files\NewTech Infosystems\NTI Backup NOW!
D:\Program Files\Stomp\Backup MyPC
C:\Program Files\Musicmatch\MusicMatc
D:\Program Files\Real Alternative
One or more of these programs MAY have had some bearing on the Multimedia problems you experienced, so it would be handy to know.
Regarding your "Trend Micro" problem, please confirm if you still have Norton SystemWorks installed
D:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks.
I know you have Norton Ghost installed, but Norton AntiVirus and Firewall components MAY be causing a conflict of interest with Trend Micro.
Bill
ASKER
You said the following:
>Going back briefly to your "multimedia" problems for a moment, perhaps you could >confirm whether the following programs are still installed on your computer.
>
>D:\Program Files\NewTech Infosystems\NTI Backup NOW!
>D:\Program Files\Stomp\Backup MyPC
>C:\Program Files\Musicmatch\MusicMatc
>D:\Program Files\Real Alternative
>
>One or more of these programs MAY have had some bearing on the Multimedia >problems you experienced, so it would be handy to know.
>Regarding your "Trend Micro" problem, please confirm if you still have Norton >SystemWorks installed
>D:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks.
>I know you have Norton Ghost installed, but Norton AntiVirus and Firewall >components MAY be causing a conflict of interest with Trend Micro.
I can answer your questions about those applications but there is some complexity to the answers:
NTI Backup Now! 3 along with NTI DriveBackup! 3 was installed on my hard drive but you will have to judge whether it is still installed. I was getting errors while trying to make backups to CDs where the process would halt on the second disk after satisfactorily making a first CD in a set of 6 telling me that the CD couldn't be written to. In addition, attempting to read a set that the program had stated was satisfactorily completed also gave an error message saying the CD couldn't be read.
I consulted NTI techsupport and they eventually told me to install the trial version of NTI Backup Now! 4. In that installation process it bombed out with a blue screen with no messages and I had to reboot. When it rebooted, there were icons on the desktop for all of the NTI Backup Now! 3 programs (there is about 4 in the set altogether) and for the NTI Backup Now! 4 program. Being curious I doubleclicked on it and it stopped without being able to open with messages saying that 2 of its files were missing (naturally, its installation had aborted itself.)
I then tried to uninstall that version 4 but it didn't have any Add/Remove listing (as I recall) but version 3 did, so, with NTI techsupport advice, I did try that uninstallation of version 3 and it looked like it was successful and its listing in the Add/Remove box disappeared but all of its icons and that of version 4 remain on my desktop in their "whatinstalled" state. Version 4 is not functional but I can still open all of version 3 programs and it certainly looked like they are still functional.
I was still trying to get a functional updated version 4, and I again contacted NTI techsupport and they told me to download and run Microsoft Installer Cleanup Utility (msicuu2.exe). This installed the Windows Install Cleanup utility and when run it displays something like the Add/Remove box with a listing of programs that included the NTI Backup Now! 3 program which I proceeded to remove. However, that still did not get rid of the icons for Backup Now that are still present on my desktop and, when I called them back they said just to delete the Trend Micro folder but did not offer anything to do with registry entries. They did, however, allow me to download the full version of version 4. I do like the program but its going to have to be functional before I do through that set of ineffectual obstacles.
As a matter of fact I'm glad now that I wasn't able to remove the NTI Backup Now programs, since it is version 3 of DriveBackup that restored that 7-5-05 image backup of the msvcrt.dll file. However, since it has been "uninstalled" I'm a little reluctant to trust it. However, it certainly saved that .dll file retrieval of the proper version for my system.
So, when you ask me the question whether NTI Backup Now is still installed on my system, I don't quite know what to tell you except you tell me, please. Maybe that set of information file attachments I sent you can help answer the question.
Backup MyPC is still installed on my system on the D: drive
I thought I had uninstalled MusicMatch Jukebox but am not completely sure that I did but its files (not sure if the set is complete either) are still on my hard drive and its icon is not present on my desktop.
The Real Alternative (Media Player Classic) is present on my hard drive, its icon is in the Quick Launch group, but I didn't install this until I had uninstalled the Windows Media Player 9 so at the time that my audio problems began I had not even installed Media Player Classic.
Because I’m nervous without a backup I did install Acronis True Image 8.0 and it does seem to function but am currently somewhat handicapped by having only 1.1 USB and an external hard drive but, even so, I was surprised that it did not seem to take forever to makes its compressed image backups. However, after your review here, maybe you’ll just say “why bother.”
Yes, I do have portions of Norton SystemWorks 2002 installed. Everything is a long story with me so I might as well give you this one also since it may help you understand the things you are seeing on my system. I had tried to install only the Norton AntiVirus 2002 (NAV) from the NortonSystemWorks 2002 CD rather than the entire suite. I don’t remember why I wanted to confine my system to that program alone -possibly it was to get the advantage of the anti-viral protection before I actually installed the Norton SystemWorks and I probably I just wanted to know more about the SystemWorks before I installed it completely. Then deciding that I wanted to install the entire SystemWorks, I first uninstalled the NAV program alone since it seemed better that I install them all at once rather then separately. The uninstallation of NAV didn’t offer any difficulty.
However, I then tried to install the entire Norton SystemWorks 2002 and was halted in the process of installing NAV by a message telling me that NAV was present even though it had been uninstalled. I couldn’t get past that problem even with Symantec techsupport using Rnav, a special NAV removal program and, I believe, even going through the registry to remove whatever they told me to do there. So, I then decided to install only portions of the Norton system: Norton Optimization Wizard (not utilized), Norton WinDoctor, Norton Registry Editor (even though I have since been warned about this program and have not used it),
You also said:
I know you have Norton Ghost installed, but Norton AntiVirus and Firewall components MAY be causing a conflict of interest with Trend Micro.
I didn’t remember that Ghost 2002 was still installed. In any event it seemed to be a command line program and was more complex than I liked so I never tried to use it.
See above for my comments about Norton AntiVirus. I didn’t think that in the 2002 version there was a firewall but I could certainly be wrong. The only other thing I’ll add was that I have not been having any problems (that I’m aware of) using Trend Micro until very recently even though I have had the programs I listed on my system along with Trend Mico for the past 2 years
I have thought of a question regarding the firewall:
I’m not disputing your findings but you have mentioned that in your investigation of my firewall that it was dysfunctional or nonfunctional, if I am not misquoting the gist of your statement. I just want to mention for your comment that I was interested in seeing what the Steve Gibson website – using a program called Shields Up that, I believe, tests firewall protection. It seemed to give me a glowing report that everything seemed fine. Now, I’m obviously, not greatly familiar with what is being tested there and could misinterprate what the report was telling me, but can you shed any light here?
I'll be answering your questions in the MSInfo and DrWatson reviews that you sent back.
Bob
>Going back briefly to your "multimedia" problems for a moment, perhaps you could >confirm whether the following programs are still installed on your computer.
>
>D:\Program Files\NewTech Infosystems\NTI Backup NOW!
>D:\Program Files\Stomp\Backup MyPC
>C:\Program Files\Musicmatch\MusicMatc
>D:\Program Files\Real Alternative
>
>One or more of these programs MAY have had some bearing on the Multimedia >problems you experienced, so it would be handy to know.
>Regarding your "Trend Micro" problem, please confirm if you still have Norton >SystemWorks installed
>D:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks.
>I know you have Norton Ghost installed, but Norton AntiVirus and Firewall >components MAY be causing a conflict of interest with Trend Micro.
I can answer your questions about those applications but there is some complexity to the answers:
NTI Backup Now! 3 along with NTI DriveBackup! 3 was installed on my hard drive but you will have to judge whether it is still installed. I was getting errors while trying to make backups to CDs where the process would halt on the second disk after satisfactorily making a first CD in a set of 6 telling me that the CD couldn't be written to. In addition, attempting to read a set that the program had stated was satisfactorily completed also gave an error message saying the CD couldn't be read.
I consulted NTI techsupport and they eventually told me to install the trial version of NTI Backup Now! 4. In that installation process it bombed out with a blue screen with no messages and I had to reboot. When it rebooted, there were icons on the desktop for all of the NTI Backup Now! 3 programs (there is about 4 in the set altogether) and for the NTI Backup Now! 4 program. Being curious I doubleclicked on it and it stopped without being able to open with messages saying that 2 of its files were missing (naturally, its installation had aborted itself.)
I then tried to uninstall that version 4 but it didn't have any Add/Remove listing (as I recall) but version 3 did, so, with NTI techsupport advice, I did try that uninstallation of version 3 and it looked like it was successful and its listing in the Add/Remove box disappeared but all of its icons and that of version 4 remain on my desktop in their "whatinstalled" state. Version 4 is not functional but I can still open all of version 3 programs and it certainly looked like they are still functional.
I was still trying to get a functional updated version 4, and I again contacted NTI techsupport and they told me to download and run Microsoft Installer Cleanup Utility (msicuu2.exe). This installed the Windows Install Cleanup utility and when run it displays something like the Add/Remove box with a listing of programs that included the NTI Backup Now! 3 program which I proceeded to remove. However, that still did not get rid of the icons for Backup Now that are still present on my desktop and, when I called them back they said just to delete the Trend Micro folder but did not offer anything to do with registry entries. They did, however, allow me to download the full version of version 4. I do like the program but its going to have to be functional before I do through that set of ineffectual obstacles.
As a matter of fact I'm glad now that I wasn't able to remove the NTI Backup Now programs, since it is version 3 of DriveBackup that restored that 7-5-05 image backup of the msvcrt.dll file. However, since it has been "uninstalled" I'm a little reluctant to trust it. However, it certainly saved that .dll file retrieval of the proper version for my system.
So, when you ask me the question whether NTI Backup Now is still installed on my system, I don't quite know what to tell you except you tell me, please. Maybe that set of information file attachments I sent you can help answer the question.
Backup MyPC is still installed on my system on the D: drive
I thought I had uninstalled MusicMatch Jukebox but am not completely sure that I did but its files (not sure if the set is complete either) are still on my hard drive and its icon is not present on my desktop.
The Real Alternative (Media Player Classic) is present on my hard drive, its icon is in the Quick Launch group, but I didn't install this until I had uninstalled the Windows Media Player 9 so at the time that my audio problems began I had not even installed Media Player Classic.
Because I’m nervous without a backup I did install Acronis True Image 8.0 and it does seem to function but am currently somewhat handicapped by having only 1.1 USB and an external hard drive but, even so, I was surprised that it did not seem to take forever to makes its compressed image backups. However, after your review here, maybe you’ll just say “why bother.”
Yes, I do have portions of Norton SystemWorks 2002 installed. Everything is a long story with me so I might as well give you this one also since it may help you understand the things you are seeing on my system. I had tried to install only the Norton AntiVirus 2002 (NAV) from the NortonSystemWorks 2002 CD rather than the entire suite. I don’t remember why I wanted to confine my system to that program alone -possibly it was to get the advantage of the anti-viral protection before I actually installed the Norton SystemWorks and I probably I just wanted to know more about the SystemWorks before I installed it completely. Then deciding that I wanted to install the entire SystemWorks, I first uninstalled the NAV program alone since it seemed better that I install them all at once rather then separately. The uninstallation of NAV didn’t offer any difficulty.
However, I then tried to install the entire Norton SystemWorks 2002 and was halted in the process of installing NAV by a message telling me that NAV was present even though it had been uninstalled. I couldn’t get past that problem even with Symantec techsupport using Rnav, a special NAV removal program and, I believe, even going through the registry to remove whatever they told me to do there. So, I then decided to install only portions of the Norton system: Norton Optimization Wizard (not utilized), Norton WinDoctor, Norton Registry Editor (even though I have since been warned about this program and have not used it),
You also said:
I know you have Norton Ghost installed, but Norton AntiVirus and Firewall components MAY be causing a conflict of interest with Trend Micro.
I didn’t remember that Ghost 2002 was still installed. In any event it seemed to be a command line program and was more complex than I liked so I never tried to use it.
See above for my comments about Norton AntiVirus. I didn’t think that in the 2002 version there was a firewall but I could certainly be wrong. The only other thing I’ll add was that I have not been having any problems (that I’m aware of) using Trend Micro until very recently even though I have had the programs I listed on my system along with Trend Mico for the past 2 years
I have thought of a question regarding the firewall:
I’m not disputing your findings but you have mentioned that in your investigation of my firewall that it was dysfunctional or nonfunctional, if I am not misquoting the gist of your statement. I just want to mention for your comment that I was interested in seeing what the Steve Gibson website – using a program called Shields Up that, I believe, tests firewall protection. It seemed to give me a glowing report that everything seemed fine. Now, I’m obviously, not greatly familiar with what is being tested there and could misinterprate what the report was telling me, but can you shed any light here?
I'll be answering your questions in the MSInfo and DrWatson reviews that you sent back.
Bob
Can you hear me inhaling sharply between pursed lips in the same way as a mechanic does when quoting for work on a car with a lot of faults? :-)
No install process seems to have gone fluently for you, for some reason, and you have been left with quite a few "half-baked" program installations on your system that cannot be uninstalled normally and completely.
First of all, I have to comment on your installation of programs to the D: Drive. My personal view, which has been gained from doing the same thing myself in the past, is that it can be problematic and serves no real benefit other than if the C: Drive is so full that it can't accommodate another programs. If it got to that stage, then I would have to think seriously about what programs I really needed, or perhaps trying to use a non-destructive hard drive partition manager to increase the C: Drive.
I don't know what your motives were, but there is only one possible benefit that I can think of, and that concerns the way spyware and viruses are programmed to look for "default" program folders to do their dirty work. If those files and/or folders are on a drive other than C: , then this MAY flot the malicious activity. Many users install programs to other drives in the mistaken belief that the program files will remain intact and ready for re-use if catastrophe strikes and they have to format the C: Drive. This is only ever true with self-contained programs that use their own configuration files that are all within a single program folder. These are very rare, because even the old ones for Windows 3.1 wrote data and settings to the registry, and the registry would no longer be there once the C: Drive was formatted.
The vast majority of programs and applications create registry settings, copy files to "system folders", and create "shared folders" into which files are copied. All of this content would be on the C: Drive and, in some cases, the system and shared files written to the C: Drive can actually amount to more than would be installed in the program's own folder on the alternative drive. Flatten the C: Drive, and you have a load of useless files on the alternate drive after you reinstall Windows. Admittedly, in some rare cases where the "common files" that would have been copied to the C: drive were already in place having been supplied by Windows, running the program again from the alternative drive can recreate configuration files and registry entries again.
In your case, it is obviously too late to do anything about this now, and reinstalling them to the default folders could cause greater problems if references to some of the program's files on your D: Drive went unaltered. A better option, if the intention was to keep your "User-Created" data safe from a format of the C: Drive, would have been to install to the C: Drive and then use the programs' configuration options to specify data folders on the D: Drive eg. relocate your "My Documents" folder and other folders used by MS Office to the D: Drive. Programs can be reinstalled, but some data cannot be recreated unless backups exist.
I really don't know where to start, just like the mechanic looking at the car with numerous problems, and will have to review everything discussed so far.
No install process seems to have gone fluently for you, for some reason, and you have been left with quite a few "half-baked" program installations on your system that cannot be uninstalled normally and completely.
First of all, I have to comment on your installation of programs to the D: Drive. My personal view, which has been gained from doing the same thing myself in the past, is that it can be problematic and serves no real benefit other than if the C: Drive is so full that it can't accommodate another programs. If it got to that stage, then I would have to think seriously about what programs I really needed, or perhaps trying to use a non-destructive hard drive partition manager to increase the C: Drive.
I don't know what your motives were, but there is only one possible benefit that I can think of, and that concerns the way spyware and viruses are programmed to look for "default" program folders to do their dirty work. If those files and/or folders are on a drive other than C: , then this MAY flot the malicious activity. Many users install programs to other drives in the mistaken belief that the program files will remain intact and ready for re-use if catastrophe strikes and they have to format the C: Drive. This is only ever true with self-contained programs that use their own configuration files that are all within a single program folder. These are very rare, because even the old ones for Windows 3.1 wrote data and settings to the registry, and the registry would no longer be there once the C: Drive was formatted.
The vast majority of programs and applications create registry settings, copy files to "system folders", and create "shared folders" into which files are copied. All of this content would be on the C: Drive and, in some cases, the system and shared files written to the C: Drive can actually amount to more than would be installed in the program's own folder on the alternative drive. Flatten the C: Drive, and you have a load of useless files on the alternate drive after you reinstall Windows. Admittedly, in some rare cases where the "common files" that would have been copied to the C: drive were already in place having been supplied by Windows, running the program again from the alternative drive can recreate configuration files and registry entries again.
In your case, it is obviously too late to do anything about this now, and reinstalling them to the default folders could cause greater problems if references to some of the program's files on your D: Drive went unaltered. A better option, if the intention was to keep your "User-Created" data safe from a format of the C: Drive, would have been to install to the C: Drive and then use the programs' configuration options to specify data folders on the D: Drive eg. relocate your "My Documents" folder and other folders used by MS Office to the D: Drive. Programs can be reinstalled, but some data cannot be recreated unless backups exist.
I really don't know where to start, just like the mechanic looking at the car with numerous problems, and will have to review everything discussed so far.
ASKER
I plead guilty. I hope you saw my last email.
But I was just minding my own business... As I mentioned, my system has served me well and done what I have asked of it. I'd like to offer my operating system for Experts who just need practice.
However, at present I have no firewall on which I can rely and no anti-viral protection so I am just going to uninstall and reinstall the updated version of Trend Micro. Speak now...
Bob
But I was just minding my own business... As I mentioned, my system has served me well and done what I have asked of it. I'd like to offer my operating system for Experts who just need practice.
However, at present I have no firewall on which I can rely and no anti-viral protection so I am just going to uninstall and reinstall the updated version of Trend Micro. Speak now...
Bob
Hi Bob, Sorry I couldn't post earlier, but the submit function on this site wasn't working.
Yes, I would have suggested that you take the first steps and try and reinstall the Trend Micro Suite.
My above comment wasn't a criticism, just observations. As I said, I did the same thing a while ago by installing a load of programs onto my D: Drive. Although it worked for me with some programs, others were problematic and it became a nuisance trying to fix the problems with parts of the programs scattered around the place.
Let us know how the reinstallation of Trend Micro goes.
Yes, I would have suggested that you take the first steps and try and reinstall the Trend Micro Suite.
My above comment wasn't a criticism, just observations. As I said, I did the same thing a while ago by installing a load of programs onto my D: Drive. Although it worked for me with some programs, others were problematic and it became a nuisance trying to fix the problems with parts of the programs scattered around the place.
Let us know how the reinstallation of Trend Micro goes.
ASKER
Well, I finished the reinstallation of Trend Micro and all went well, except for my curse. Got to the last of the process and it stated it was going to, I thought, open the program but it just stalled with an hour glass that wouldn't disappear. The cursor was very sluggish at this point in time so I waited awhile to be sure I wasn't jumping the gun but when it continued to have the hour glass pointer, I moved the pointer to the screen from which the process of installation had been launched that had remained positioned behind this front installation screen and closed that screen just to see if it had any bearing on the process. At that point in time it seemed that that allowed the process to continue because it enabled a
Finish button and stated that rebooting would occur by clicking on that button which did happen.
After the desktop returned on rebooting the next occurrence was the appearance of a message screen displaying a flashlight moving back and forth and it stated that it was searching for pccguide.exe which it didn't offhand know the location for. It eventually found it and listed where it was found - guess what - in the location where I had just installed it - and asked me if that was satisfactory.
I said yes but my question is why in that installing process did it not know just where that file should be without a doubt? Since I knew, why didn't it know?
Finish button and stated that rebooting would occur by clicking on that button which did happen.
After the desktop returned on rebooting the next occurrence was the appearance of a message screen displaying a flashlight moving back and forth and it stated that it was searching for pccguide.exe which it didn't offhand know the location for. It eventually found it and listed where it was found - guess what - in the location where I had just installed it - and asked me if that was satisfactory.
I said yes but my question is why in that installing process did it not know just where that file should be without a doubt? Since I knew, why didn't it know?
ASKER
Addition to above post:
I forgot to mention that, so far, the new version of Trend Micro that I installed seems to be functioning and was able to update its components. I said, so far.
At this time I am trying to go through your reviews of the MSInfo32 and the DrWatson information I sent you and will try to answer questions you asked there, and will also try to remove as many of the startup processes as I can that don't require more information.
One of your questions involved a file called AU30SBFM.VXD. I now have 3 such files:
au30sbfm.vxd version 4.05.2000 68,829 bytes 8/24/98 Located in C:\WINDOWS\System folder
au30sbfm.vxd version 4.06.2046 68,278 bytes 1/2700 Located in C:\Dell\Drivers\1041D\Win9
and from an attempt to obtain updated drivers for my sound card from, I believe, DriversHq(?):
au30sbfm.vxd version 4.06.2046 68,278 bytes 1/27/00 Located where I unzipped it.
And, incidentally, the same file - au30sbfm.vxd - on the Montego II installation disk from which I installed the current set of drivers for that sound card is version 4.05.2000 68,829 bytes 8/24/98
Bob
I forgot to mention that, so far, the new version of Trend Micro that I installed seems to be functioning and was able to update its components. I said, so far.
At this time I am trying to go through your reviews of the MSInfo32 and the DrWatson information I sent you and will try to answer questions you asked there, and will also try to remove as many of the startup processes as I can that don't require more information.
One of your questions involved a file called AU30SBFM.VXD. I now have 3 such files:
au30sbfm.vxd version 4.05.2000 68,829 bytes 8/24/98 Located in C:\WINDOWS\System folder
au30sbfm.vxd version 4.06.2046 68,278 bytes 1/2700 Located in C:\Dell\Drivers\1041D\Win9
and from an attempt to obtain updated drivers for my sound card from, I believe, DriversHq(?):
au30sbfm.vxd version 4.06.2046 68,278 bytes 1/27/00 Located where I unzipped it.
And, incidentally, the same file - au30sbfm.vxd - on the Montego II installation disk from which I installed the current set of drivers for that sound card is version 4.05.2000 68,829 bytes 8/24/98
Bob
Re the Trend Micro installation. I'm glad that it finally settled down and finished the installation. It leaves you with a queasy feeling when you see that hourglass. I have found that Epson Printer driver setup CD's do this a lot, and often create an aborted install that is hard to finish. They show two dialogs - one telling you that the setup has finished and with an "OK" button, and another on top that still seems to be doing something, but it has actually frozen up the PC. When the only way out is a Ctrl + Alt + Del, it doesn't finish the install as it should. I mentioned the "RunOnce" registry key a few comments ago, and indicated that instructions are written to it that are executed at the next reboot. An improper shutdown loses these settings, hence the incomplete install.
I think that the reason it searched for pcguide.exe, and then asked you to locate it, stems from the facts that I highlighted concerning the fact that your system seemed to be loading two instances of this file from different folders. Installation routines usually search for the existence of themselves and their own files, and it seems that this has confused it. You made a good decision under pressure, and this program should now be using files all from its own installation.
I think the best if I allow you to read through my appraisals of your MSInfo32 and Dr. Watson reports first before bogging you down with any other suggestions for now. Let me know when you are done, or if there are any areas you are not clear about.
Bill
I think that the reason it searched for pcguide.exe, and then asked you to locate it, stems from the facts that I highlighted concerning the fact that your system seemed to be loading two instances of this file from different folders. Installation routines usually search for the existence of themselves and their own files, and it seems that this has confused it. You made a good decision under pressure, and this program should now be using files all from its own installation.
I think the best if I allow you to read through my appraisals of your MSInfo32 and Dr. Watson reports first before bogging you down with any other suggestions for now. Let me know when you are done, or if there are any areas you are not clear about.
Bill
ASKER
Bill,
Please correct any wrong conclusions I may have drawn here.
As you know, I am currently reviewing your DrWatson Report to me (and the MSInfo32 report) and have found your section labeled “VERY IMPORTANT OBSERVATION” about the 2 sets of Program File folders:
>C:\Program Files\
>and
>D:\Program Files\
I presume you want the following information although I’m not sure whether you have already answered some of this so, excuse me, if there is repetition in the material
And please answer my questions, specifically, here because I’m a bit confused.
It has been my practice since I, specifically, formatted my hard drive and divided it into 3 partitions: a C: System drive, a D: Programs drive, and an E: Data drive to install my applications into the D: drive when I am offered the choice but sometimes during some installations, it is automatically installed on the C: drive. If I was given the choice, unless some techsupport advised me to install it on the C: drive, I usually installed it on my D: drive.
If I remember correctly, the process was one where the option is offered in such a way as to first display a “C:\Program Files\Folder1\Folder2….\” location into which to store the program files in that installation on the C: drive and when I was given the choice to install it elsewhere, I installed an application on the D: drive, by just changing the C: to a D: and retained the “\Program Files\…” path in order to retain the same structure for the D: drive installations that the Installer was using for the C: drive.
Toward the end of this section in your comments about why my setup appears as it does with those 2 ‘C and D drives ‘Program Files’ folders, you postulated 2 scenarios (if am stating it them correctly):
Either:
1) I was running out of room on my C: drive so created a new folder on my D: drive to hold the installations
or
2) I relocated the C: Program Files folder to the D: drive (and you speculated that I relocated it back to the C: drive with whatever consequences might occur to its ‘Shell System Folders’ status.
All I can say is that I’m not that sophisticated and neither scenarios seems correct to me but just the 'change a C to a D' is.
Question 1:
Since you are raising the issue, could you tell me where else I should have installed it given that I was using the D: drive and letting the Installer do what I thought was its job?
Question 2:
Is the issue just that there exists both C:\Program Files and D:\Program Files folders that confuse the operating system?
Question 3:
A. As I review the subject, is the attribute of R the only important thing about the Shell System Folder that is important to be able to keep the material within the folder unchanged since, as I understand it, the R attribute by itself only allows reading but not writing?
B. Yet I thought that the installation process was just such a writing so is this correct?
C. Are there any other characteristics for a Shell System Folder?
Question 4:
Can there be two (or more) Shell System Folders since, after all, it seems that there could only one true System Folder?
Question 5:
Is there any difference in the capabilities of the different command line prompts reached by these 2 methods (other than the folder accessed by each of them):
a) pressing the <CTRL> key to choose the ‘command line only’
or
b) choosing Start>Programs>MS-DOS prompt?
I performed the check that you asked regarding the status of the C: and D: drive Program Files folders:
Results:
1) At the C:\> prompt I typed the command ‘attrib progra~1’ and pressed <enter> and this produced the line:
R PROGRA~1 C:\Program Files
2) At the D:\> prompt I typed the command ‘attrib progra~1’ and this produced the line:
PROGRA~1 D:\Program Files
which, I believe, you indicated showed that the C:\Program Files folder was a Shell System Folder but the D:\Program Files was not a Shell System Folder.
Question 6:
If the attribute of the D:\Program Files folder were converted to R, would that correct the problem(s) that you state occurred with using that folder without the R attribute?
Question 7
Would you know whether the “redundant registry entries referencing programs that have been run from drives other than the C: drive” to which you referred were found by Registry First Aid as invalid entries?
Question 8:
And given that I actually did install a large number of applications on the D: drive, is this set of redundant registry entries not so redundant, after all?
I think you can understand why I am confused.
Please correct any wrong conclusions I may have drawn here.
As you know, I am currently reviewing your DrWatson Report to me (and the MSInfo32 report) and have found your section labeled “VERY IMPORTANT OBSERVATION” about the 2 sets of Program File folders:
>C:\Program Files\
>and
>D:\Program Files\
I presume you want the following information although I’m not sure whether you have already answered some of this so, excuse me, if there is repetition in the material
And please answer my questions, specifically, here because I’m a bit confused.
It has been my practice since I, specifically, formatted my hard drive and divided it into 3 partitions: a C: System drive, a D: Programs drive, and an E: Data drive to install my applications into the D: drive when I am offered the choice but sometimes during some installations, it is automatically installed on the C: drive. If I was given the choice, unless some techsupport advised me to install it on the C: drive, I usually installed it on my D: drive.
If I remember correctly, the process was one where the option is offered in such a way as to first display a “C:\Program Files\Folder1\Folder2….\” location into which to store the program files in that installation on the C: drive and when I was given the choice to install it elsewhere, I installed an application on the D: drive, by just changing the C: to a D: and retained the “\Program Files\…” path in order to retain the same structure for the D: drive installations that the Installer was using for the C: drive.
Toward the end of this section in your comments about why my setup appears as it does with those 2 ‘C and D drives ‘Program Files’ folders, you postulated 2 scenarios (if am stating it them correctly):
Either:
1) I was running out of room on my C: drive so created a new folder on my D: drive to hold the installations
or
2) I relocated the C: Program Files folder to the D: drive (and you speculated that I relocated it back to the C: drive with whatever consequences might occur to its ‘Shell System Folders’ status.
All I can say is that I’m not that sophisticated and neither scenarios seems correct to me but just the 'change a C to a D' is.
Question 1:
Since you are raising the issue, could you tell me where else I should have installed it given that I was using the D: drive and letting the Installer do what I thought was its job?
Question 2:
Is the issue just that there exists both C:\Program Files and D:\Program Files folders that confuse the operating system?
Question 3:
A. As I review the subject, is the attribute of R the only important thing about the Shell System Folder that is important to be able to keep the material within the folder unchanged since, as I understand it, the R attribute by itself only allows reading but not writing?
B. Yet I thought that the installation process was just such a writing so is this correct?
C. Are there any other characteristics for a Shell System Folder?
Question 4:
Can there be two (or more) Shell System Folders since, after all, it seems that there could only one true System Folder?
Question 5:
Is there any difference in the capabilities of the different command line prompts reached by these 2 methods (other than the folder accessed by each of them):
a) pressing the <CTRL> key to choose the ‘command line only’
or
b) choosing Start>Programs>MS-DOS prompt?
I performed the check that you asked regarding the status of the C: and D: drive Program Files folders:
Results:
1) At the C:\> prompt I typed the command ‘attrib progra~1’ and pressed <enter> and this produced the line:
R PROGRA~1 C:\Program Files
2) At the D:\> prompt I typed the command ‘attrib progra~1’ and this produced the line:
PROGRA~1 D:\Program Files
which, I believe, you indicated showed that the C:\Program Files folder was a Shell System Folder but the D:\Program Files was not a Shell System Folder.
Question 6:
If the attribute of the D:\Program Files folder were converted to R, would that correct the problem(s) that you state occurred with using that folder without the R attribute?
Question 7
Would you know whether the “redundant registry entries referencing programs that have been run from drives other than the C: drive” to which you referred were found by Registry First Aid as invalid entries?
Question 8:
And given that I actually did install a large number of applications on the D: drive, is this set of redundant registry entries not so redundant, after all?
I think you can understand why I am confused.
My main concern was that the "Program Files" folder on the D: Drive had superseded the one on the C: Drive as the default one, and that some programs that aren't tolerant of being installed to another location had been installed to D:\Program Files. That being the case, one or more install routines MAY have then looked for a "Windows" folder and sub-folders on that drive, and (having failed to find it) either dumped a load of files into the root of the D: Drive, or failed to install properly.
I think you have dismissed this theory through your explanation of how you just changed the Drive Letter in the suggested install path. Had it automatically created the "Program Files" folder on the D: Drive when you chose the D: drive as the alternative destination drive, I would have expected to see a "Read Only" attribute applied to that folder.
To address question 3. C, Yes, there are other attributes that are applied to Shell System Folders. I would expect to see two super-hidden files in a Shell Folder, namely Desktop.ini and Folder.htt. These often don't display even if you have your Windows Explorer "View" options set to "show all files", but usually DO show if you do a file search for either named file. You can have a look in the Root of your C:\Program Files folder and D:\Program Files folder for these two files, but from your explanation I am quite sure you won't find them in the D:\Program Files folder.
The alternative way of seeing super-hidden files in a given directory is through DOS.
Open a DOS Window from Start Menu > Programs > MS-DOS Prompt and it usually opens on C:\WINDOWS> .
Type the commands:
dir /on /ah-d /b c:\progra~1
dir /on /ah-d /b d:\progra~1
For the folder on the C: Drive, you should see:
desktop.ini
folder.htt
but I'm sure you won't have these on the D: Drive folder, which is what I would HOPE to find.
If you are interested, the Desktop.INI file should contain something like the following when opened in Notepad:
[ExtShellFolderViews]
Default={5984FFE0-28D4-11C
{5984FFE0-28D4-11CF-AE66-0
[{5984FFE0-28D4-11CF-AE66-
PersistMoniker=file://Fold
[.ShellClassInfo]
ConfirmFileOp=0
The {long-unique-number} is the identifier in the registry that references several other keys designed to allow your computer to display and use its Shell Folders in "Active Desktop" mode, and "View As A Web Page" mode.
eg.
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\fold
file://%userappdata%\Micro
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\neth
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\myco
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\cont
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\prin
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\ftp.htt
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\recy
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\defa
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\dial
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\sche
You know that central column in Windows Explorer that displays some clouds and a preview of files selected in the right-hand pane when you set folders to "View as a Web Page"? They are being displayed from the respective .HTT file in C:\Windows\WEB. The .HTT files are just web page templates with a load of JavaScript code that allows them to work as System Folders when in Avtive Desktop, whereas a standard .HTML Web Page would disallow certain functions.
If someone customises this folder, eg. by making it display an alternative icon like this:
http://iconlibrary.com/help/application_1a.html
then the settings are modified in the registry and also in the Desktop.ini file under the [.ShellClassInfo] section as eg.:
IconFile=C:\WINDOWS\system
IconIndex=25
InfoTip=Program Files Folder used to install programs.
Anyway, your explanation has quelled my worries, and D:\Program Files shouldn't present any problems because it wasn't actually created by Windows. The installations will all be logged in the registry showing the destination folder as D:\Program Files\ProgFolder, and if the Uninstall routine calls an executable or other file from one of those sub-folders, then that will also be logged in the Registry.
To address your questions in turn:
Question 1:
Already explained by you and covered above. The VERY FIRST program you installed to the D: Drive by just changing the Drive letter from C:\ to D:\ is what actually CREATED the "D:\Program Files" folder. The only concern is that, because a specific program installation CREATED the "Program Files" folder and its own sub-folder(s) on D: , then Uninstalling THAT SAME program may also TRY TO REMOVE the "D:\Program Files" folder along with its own program sub-folder created during the installation. Whether it would be successful, given that other installations created their own program folders under that master folder, is something that I wouldn't care to risk.
If you recall what the first program was that you installed this way, then you should take note of this and make a complete backup of the "D:\Program Files" folder IF you ever choose to Uninstall it.
The method I would have recommended when you first decided to use the D: Drive would have been to first create a folder named eg. "PROGRAMS", and THEN allow installers to create their own program sub-folders under that. In other words D:\PROGRAMS would have been a "user-created" folder, and would remain even if you uninstalled ALL the programs from the D: Drive.
Question 2:
It was a possible, and tentative, theory that I believed MIGHT cause some confusion to the operating system or programs IF both folders were being treated as "Shell Folders". If no desktop.ini / folder.htt files exist in the one on D: AND (as you have established already) the one on D: doesn't have the "Read-Only" attribute set, then it appears to present no problems.
Question 3:
A. The "Read-Only" attribute is given to System-Generated folders so that, if you try and move, delete, or rename the folder, then it will always prompt you for a decision. It is very easy to accidentally grab a folder with the left mouse button while navigating in Windows Explorer, and dump it in another folder. Without the Read-Only attribute it wouldn't prompt you, and could cause problems.
B. The attribute is NOT passed on to installer-generated sub-folders, so installations are free to add or remove content. It only applies to the actual "C:\Program Files" folder and other Shell System Folders.
C. Yes, but it depends on the folder. All "Shell System Folders" are allocated a unique "Class Identifier" number in the registry, and special attributes are stored there (and also in the hidden desktop.ini and folder.htt file in the root of that folder) which determine that folder's behaviour. Example, the C:\Windows\Fonts folder adds an extra menu option to install a new font, C:\Recycled adds the custom "properties" dialog, etc.
Question 4:
No, theoretically not, but remember that there are "User Shell Folders" and "Shell Folders", where the latter applies to the System (all users and Windows), and the former only applies to the folders created while YOU are logged in. It COULD be possible for the "C:\Program Files" folder to be regarded as a System Folder, and the "D:\Program Files" folder to be regarded as a "User Shell Folder". Again, from your explanation, I don't think this is an issue any more.
Question 5:
a) Accessing the "Command Prompt Only" option from the Boot Menu boots into DOS MODE, which is FULL DOS and the Registry settings aren't loaded. It only supports short file names. None of the Windows device drivers are loaded so, unless a DOS-specific driver is available and loaded from the config.sys or autoexec.bat files, the device cannot be used.
b) Start Menu > Programs> MS-DOS prompt launches a DOS "Window" within the Windows environment, so it is usually able to display long file names, and the "environment" is Windows rather than DOS, so registry settings are loaded. Type the command SET into a DOS Window and it will probably show extra environment variables that load with Windows, but which wouldn't be shown if in FULL DOS. Additional configuration files relevant to Windows have been loaded eg. Win.ini and Copntrol.ini.
Folder "Attributes" (like "Read-Only", "Hidden", and "System") will be shown regardless of what DOS "Mode" you are in, but the extended attributes loaded from the registry aren't available because they only apply to the graphic user interface of Windows Mode anyway.
Question 6:
Adding the "Read-Only" attribute to your D:\Program Files folder would only add the extra security of prompting you if you accidentally moved, renamed, or deleted the folder. It MIGHT also prevent it from being UNinstalled as discussed at Question 3 above.
Question 7:
The Registry First Aid report mostly seems to comprise registry references to OLD files on the C: and D: drives (and sub-folders thereof) that have since been uninstalled, deleted, renamed, or moved elsewhere. These are referred to by Registry First Aid under the *** Invalid Paths *** section as in the following example:
10 Key: "[HKEY_CURRENT_USER] \Software\Microsoft\Window
Value ""Skype"" has invalid file reference: """D:\Program Files\Skype\Phone\Skype.ex
Correction: "Delete the entry (no found corrections)"
Correction: [0] "Leave the entry without change"
Correction: [1] "Delete the entry (no found corrections)"
Correction: [2] "Cut invalid substring "D:\Program Files\Skype\Phone\Skype.ex
From this result, it appears that you had Skype installed to "D:\Program Files\Skype\Phone" and subsequently disabled it from registry Startup using MSCONFIG. This means that, while it was disabled, it was moved to the "Run-" key. If it was subsequently uninstalled, it would have left that entry in the "Run-" Registry key and would show as a blank check-box in MSCONFIG, BUT it is entirely possible that Registry First Aid has FALSELY identified this as an invalid registry entry.
The only way to know if this IS a false finding, is to check and see if the program is still installed. If it IS, then you should obviously LEAVE this registry entry well alone and wonder WHY Registry First Aid identified it as an "invalid file reference" in the first place.
This utility seems to be a very comprehensive one, but requires a good insight into how the registry stores data. I would NEVER recommend it as a "Quick Fix" utility. It would take you considerable time to verify all of the 1,056 findings as being accurately detected.
If you chose some option like "Fix All", then I would be concerned about the very first entry in the report shown as follows:
*** Invalid Paths *** Total found entries: 1056
0 Key: "[HKEY_CURRENT_USER] \Software\Microsoft\Intern
Value ""Local Page"" has invalid file reference: ""C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\blank.
Correction: "Delete the entry (no found corrections)"
Correction: [0] "Leave the entry without change"
Correction: [1] "Delete the entry (no found corrections)"
Correction: [2] "Cut invalid substring "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\blank.h
You have had Frontpage 2000 installed from MS Office, and also FrontPage Express installed. Right-Click on your Desktop and select "New". If it shows "Web Page", then that option will create a new blank web page, but do you know what template it used to create that file? You have no real way of knowing what file was used, and it COULD have been C:\Windows\Blank.htm. It could also very easily be the page that loads in Internet Explorer if you set your homepage to "about:blank" by pressing the "Use Blank" button.
What I am driving at here is that registries accumulate thousands of old or redundant file references over time and, unless you are conversant with the registry, then Registry First Aid requires some guesswork that could cause problems that weren't being caused by the presence of the redundant entry. I started going through the Reg First Aid report with a view to deleting ALL BUT those that i felt you should leave alone, but it's an enormous job and I don't know how long it would take me.
Question 8:
You have file and folder references in your registry to all available drives C: to J: (ie. all except the floppy drive) eg:
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"LastUsedSource"="C:\\WIND
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"Default File Device Path"="D:\\CompleteBackup - 8-3-03\\CompleteBackup - 8-3-03.qic"
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"History6"="E:\\Downloaded
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"PQI1"="F:\\BACKUPDR.PQI"
[HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Softw
"Save Directory"="G:\\Holder\\"
[HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Softw
"Image 2"="H:\\BackupDrvE.pqi"
[HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Softw
"File4"="I:\\MyBackup.NPF"
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"File0"="I:\\DCIM\\100NIKO
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"LastLogSavePath"="J:\\Out
The ones like "Recent File List" and "Save Directory" are generally all safe to delete, because you it will just clear the list of recent files on the "File" Menu and prompt you for a "Save To" folder respectively. The ones that refer to "Installer" and "C:\Windows\Temp" are usually quite safe to delete also, but after that you are into guesswork or exhaustive verification of the finding's validity.
There ARE, however, listings in the Registry First Aid Report that refer to files or folders that are or were installed by your sound-card driver or applications, eg:
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"PCMixer"="C:\\Program Files\\VOYETRA\\AudioStati
Discounting all the "Recent File List" entries for multimedia file types that were once played through the "AudioStation" application, an entry like the above COULD remain long after you uninstalled the sound card and all the related installed applications. Without the presence of the sound card, these entries would be benign, but if you installed an upgraded version of "AudioStation" where "PCMixer" should apply to some other file than "as32chassis.exe", then an entry like that could cause problems if it wasn't overwritten.
You also have entries like these:
[HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Softw
"ExePath"="C:\Program Files\VOYETRA\AudioStation
This, I can only assume, sets the program file that starts when you press a particular key on your Multimedia Keyboard to launch the "Native Media Player". Whether or not that could cause problems with Windows Media Player, your Sound Card Drivers and applications, or streaming multimedia content online, is anyone's guess.
I would say that it is a risky business even starting a cleanup operation using Registry First Aid, UNLESS you were fully prepared to have to reinstall Windows from scratch when it removed a required registry entry.
Hopefully this addresses your questions. It is IMPOSSIBLE to express these comments and observations in any less detail than I have done above. I'm sorry if this becomes just another information overload, but it is essential that you understand why my inclination would be to do a fresh reinstallation of Windows rather than going around in circles trying to fix things as they crop up.
Regards
Bill
I think you have dismissed this theory through your explanation of how you just changed the Drive Letter in the suggested install path. Had it automatically created the "Program Files" folder on the D: Drive when you chose the D: drive as the alternative destination drive, I would have expected to see a "Read Only" attribute applied to that folder.
To address question 3. C, Yes, there are other attributes that are applied to Shell System Folders. I would expect to see two super-hidden files in a Shell Folder, namely Desktop.ini and Folder.htt. These often don't display even if you have your Windows Explorer "View" options set to "show all files", but usually DO show if you do a file search for either named file. You can have a look in the Root of your C:\Program Files folder and D:\Program Files folder for these two files, but from your explanation I am quite sure you won't find them in the D:\Program Files folder.
The alternative way of seeing super-hidden files in a given directory is through DOS.
Open a DOS Window from Start Menu > Programs > MS-DOS Prompt and it usually opens on C:\WINDOWS> .
Type the commands:
dir /on /ah-d /b c:\progra~1
dir /on /ah-d /b d:\progra~1
For the folder on the C: Drive, you should see:
desktop.ini
folder.htt
but I'm sure you won't have these on the D: Drive folder, which is what I would HOPE to find.
If you are interested, the Desktop.INI file should contain something like the following when opened in Notepad:
[ExtShellFolderViews]
Default={5984FFE0-28D4-11C
{5984FFE0-28D4-11CF-AE66-0
[{5984FFE0-28D4-11CF-AE66-
PersistMoniker=file://Fold
[.ShellClassInfo]
ConfirmFileOp=0
The {long-unique-number} is the identifier in the registry that references several other keys designed to allow your computer to display and use its Shell Folders in "Active Desktop" mode, and "View As A Web Page" mode.
eg.
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\fold
file://%userappdata%\Micro
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\neth
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\myco
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\cont
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\prin
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\ftp.htt
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\recy
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\defa
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\dial
file://C:\WINDOWS\web\sche
You know that central column in Windows Explorer that displays some clouds and a preview of files selected in the right-hand pane when you set folders to "View as a Web Page"? They are being displayed from the respective .HTT file in C:\Windows\WEB. The .HTT files are just web page templates with a load of JavaScript code that allows them to work as System Folders when in Avtive Desktop, whereas a standard .HTML Web Page would disallow certain functions.
If someone customises this folder, eg. by making it display an alternative icon like this:
http://iconlibrary.com/help/application_1a.html
then the settings are modified in the registry and also in the Desktop.ini file under the [.ShellClassInfo] section as eg.:
IconFile=C:\WINDOWS\system
IconIndex=25
InfoTip=Program Files Folder used to install programs.
Anyway, your explanation has quelled my worries, and D:\Program Files shouldn't present any problems because it wasn't actually created by Windows. The installations will all be logged in the registry showing the destination folder as D:\Program Files\ProgFolder, and if the Uninstall routine calls an executable or other file from one of those sub-folders, then that will also be logged in the Registry.
To address your questions in turn:
Question 1:
Already explained by you and covered above. The VERY FIRST program you installed to the D: Drive by just changing the Drive letter from C:\ to D:\ is what actually CREATED the "D:\Program Files" folder. The only concern is that, because a specific program installation CREATED the "Program Files" folder and its own sub-folder(s) on D: , then Uninstalling THAT SAME program may also TRY TO REMOVE the "D:\Program Files" folder along with its own program sub-folder created during the installation. Whether it would be successful, given that other installations created their own program folders under that master folder, is something that I wouldn't care to risk.
If you recall what the first program was that you installed this way, then you should take note of this and make a complete backup of the "D:\Program Files" folder IF you ever choose to Uninstall it.
The method I would have recommended when you first decided to use the D: Drive would have been to first create a folder named eg. "PROGRAMS", and THEN allow installers to create their own program sub-folders under that. In other words D:\PROGRAMS would have been a "user-created" folder, and would remain even if you uninstalled ALL the programs from the D: Drive.
Question 2:
It was a possible, and tentative, theory that I believed MIGHT cause some confusion to the operating system or programs IF both folders were being treated as "Shell Folders". If no desktop.ini / folder.htt files exist in the one on D: AND (as you have established already) the one on D: doesn't have the "Read-Only" attribute set, then it appears to present no problems.
Question 3:
A. The "Read-Only" attribute is given to System-Generated folders so that, if you try and move, delete, or rename the folder, then it will always prompt you for a decision. It is very easy to accidentally grab a folder with the left mouse button while navigating in Windows Explorer, and dump it in another folder. Without the Read-Only attribute it wouldn't prompt you, and could cause problems.
B. The attribute is NOT passed on to installer-generated sub-folders, so installations are free to add or remove content. It only applies to the actual "C:\Program Files" folder and other Shell System Folders.
C. Yes, but it depends on the folder. All "Shell System Folders" are allocated a unique "Class Identifier" number in the registry, and special attributes are stored there (and also in the hidden desktop.ini and folder.htt file in the root of that folder) which determine that folder's behaviour. Example, the C:\Windows\Fonts folder adds an extra menu option to install a new font, C:\Recycled adds the custom "properties" dialog, etc.
Question 4:
No, theoretically not, but remember that there are "User Shell Folders" and "Shell Folders", where the latter applies to the System (all users and Windows), and the former only applies to the folders created while YOU are logged in. It COULD be possible for the "C:\Program Files" folder to be regarded as a System Folder, and the "D:\Program Files" folder to be regarded as a "User Shell Folder". Again, from your explanation, I don't think this is an issue any more.
Question 5:
a) Accessing the "Command Prompt Only" option from the Boot Menu boots into DOS MODE, which is FULL DOS and the Registry settings aren't loaded. It only supports short file names. None of the Windows device drivers are loaded so, unless a DOS-specific driver is available and loaded from the config.sys or autoexec.bat files, the device cannot be used.
b) Start Menu > Programs> MS-DOS prompt launches a DOS "Window" within the Windows environment, so it is usually able to display long file names, and the "environment" is Windows rather than DOS, so registry settings are loaded. Type the command SET into a DOS Window and it will probably show extra environment variables that load with Windows, but which wouldn't be shown if in FULL DOS. Additional configuration files relevant to Windows have been loaded eg. Win.ini and Copntrol.ini.
Folder "Attributes" (like "Read-Only", "Hidden", and "System") will be shown regardless of what DOS "Mode" you are in, but the extended attributes loaded from the registry aren't available because they only apply to the graphic user interface of Windows Mode anyway.
Question 6:
Adding the "Read-Only" attribute to your D:\Program Files folder would only add the extra security of prompting you if you accidentally moved, renamed, or deleted the folder. It MIGHT also prevent it from being UNinstalled as discussed at Question 3 above.
Question 7:
The Registry First Aid report mostly seems to comprise registry references to OLD files on the C: and D: drives (and sub-folders thereof) that have since been uninstalled, deleted, renamed, or moved elsewhere. These are referred to by Registry First Aid under the *** Invalid Paths *** section as in the following example:
10 Key: "[HKEY_CURRENT_USER] \Software\Microsoft\Window
Value ""Skype"" has invalid file reference: """D:\Program Files\Skype\Phone\Skype.ex
Correction: "Delete the entry (no found corrections)"
Correction: [0] "Leave the entry without change"
Correction: [1] "Delete the entry (no found corrections)"
Correction: [2] "Cut invalid substring "D:\Program Files\Skype\Phone\Skype.ex
From this result, it appears that you had Skype installed to "D:\Program Files\Skype\Phone" and subsequently disabled it from registry Startup using MSCONFIG. This means that, while it was disabled, it was moved to the "Run-" key. If it was subsequently uninstalled, it would have left that entry in the "Run-" Registry key and would show as a blank check-box in MSCONFIG, BUT it is entirely possible that Registry First Aid has FALSELY identified this as an invalid registry entry.
The only way to know if this IS a false finding, is to check and see if the program is still installed. If it IS, then you should obviously LEAVE this registry entry well alone and wonder WHY Registry First Aid identified it as an "invalid file reference" in the first place.
This utility seems to be a very comprehensive one, but requires a good insight into how the registry stores data. I would NEVER recommend it as a "Quick Fix" utility. It would take you considerable time to verify all of the 1,056 findings as being accurately detected.
If you chose some option like "Fix All", then I would be concerned about the very first entry in the report shown as follows:
*** Invalid Paths *** Total found entries: 1056
0 Key: "[HKEY_CURRENT_USER] \Software\Microsoft\Intern
Value ""Local Page"" has invalid file reference: ""C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\blank.
Correction: "Delete the entry (no found corrections)"
Correction: [0] "Leave the entry without change"
Correction: [1] "Delete the entry (no found corrections)"
Correction: [2] "Cut invalid substring "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\blank.h
You have had Frontpage 2000 installed from MS Office, and also FrontPage Express installed. Right-Click on your Desktop and select "New". If it shows "Web Page", then that option will create a new blank web page, but do you know what template it used to create that file? You have no real way of knowing what file was used, and it COULD have been C:\Windows\Blank.htm. It could also very easily be the page that loads in Internet Explorer if you set your homepage to "about:blank" by pressing the "Use Blank" button.
What I am driving at here is that registries accumulate thousands of old or redundant file references over time and, unless you are conversant with the registry, then Registry First Aid requires some guesswork that could cause problems that weren't being caused by the presence of the redundant entry. I started going through the Reg First Aid report with a view to deleting ALL BUT those that i felt you should leave alone, but it's an enormous job and I don't know how long it would take me.
Question 8:
You have file and folder references in your registry to all available drives C: to J: (ie. all except the floppy drive) eg:
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"LastUsedSource"="C:\\WIND
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"Default File Device Path"="D:\\CompleteBackup - 8-3-03\\CompleteBackup - 8-3-03.qic"
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"History6"="E:\\Downloaded
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"PQI1"="F:\\BACKUPDR.PQI"
[HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Softw
"Save Directory"="G:\\Holder\\"
[HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Softw
"Image 2"="H:\\BackupDrvE.pqi"
[HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Softw
"File4"="I:\\MyBackup.NPF"
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"File0"="I:\\DCIM\\100NIKO
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"LastLogSavePath"="J:\\Out
The ones like "Recent File List" and "Save Directory" are generally all safe to delete, because you it will just clear the list of recent files on the "File" Menu and prompt you for a "Save To" folder respectively. The ones that refer to "Installer" and "C:\Windows\Temp" are usually quite safe to delete also, but after that you are into guesswork or exhaustive verification of the finding's validity.
There ARE, however, listings in the Registry First Aid Report that refer to files or folders that are or were installed by your sound-card driver or applications, eg:
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Softwar
"PCMixer"="C:\\Program Files\\VOYETRA\\AudioStati
Discounting all the "Recent File List" entries for multimedia file types that were once played through the "AudioStation" application, an entry like the above COULD remain long after you uninstalled the sound card and all the related installed applications. Without the presence of the sound card, these entries would be benign, but if you installed an upgraded version of "AudioStation" where "PCMixer" should apply to some other file than "as32chassis.exe", then an entry like that could cause problems if it wasn't overwritten.
You also have entries like these:
[HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Softw
"ExePath"="C:\Program Files\VOYETRA\AudioStation
This, I can only assume, sets the program file that starts when you press a particular key on your Multimedia Keyboard to launch the "Native Media Player". Whether or not that could cause problems with Windows Media Player, your Sound Card Drivers and applications, or streaming multimedia content online, is anyone's guess.
I would say that it is a risky business even starting a cleanup operation using Registry First Aid, UNLESS you were fully prepared to have to reinstall Windows from scratch when it removed a required registry entry.
Hopefully this addresses your questions. It is IMPOSSIBLE to express these comments and observations in any less detail than I have done above. I'm sorry if this becomes just another information overload, but it is essential that you understand why my inclination would be to do a fresh reinstallation of Windows rather than going around in circles trying to fix things as they crop up.
Regards
Bill
ASKER
Let me get one thing out of the way:
Question 1:
From comments you have made, must I assume that even though I corrected the use of the wrong version of that msvcrt.dll file by its replacement with the proper version file from an earlier image backup, that I do not now have a functional Sound card?
Question 2:
Could you make a statement that you believe, if this is the case, that this is probably due to some other incorrect versions of driver files for the Sound card?
I had infomed you that, the case of that au30sbfm.vxd file, I had located in DriversHq(?) a version 4.06.2046 that was more recent than the version 4.05.2000 in my C:\Windows\System folder. Many of the other files in that set from the DriversHQ website also show that version 4.06.2046.
Question 3:
Could I replace the current set of Sound card driver files that were installed from my original Montego II installation disk performed relatively recently, by the, apparently, more recent files I downloaded from the Internet (in sets with and without the Sound Blaster Pro emulation) and be able to correct whatever malfunctions still exist in my Sound card? Or does this non-TBS source prevent its use?
Question 4 set:
I tried to work out a plan for use of Registry First Aid that I'd like you to comment on and correct my false assumptions:
1) Run the Registry First Aid for all types of invalid entries that are possible but set the program to check out only 10 or 100 at a time.
2) Make an undo registry backup of the set of 10 (or 100) in the Regedit4 .reg format so specific keys or sets of keys can be restored
3) Run the automatic corrections for that set recommended by Registry First Aid
4) Reboot the computerto put those corrections into effect
5) Check the computer to be sure that functionality is retained by the operating system.
It is here that i need to know whether my plan is workable since it depends on:
a) Will using the computer to perform my usual activities such as word processing, surfing the Internet, using specific applications, etc. provide at least one set of "testing" procedures? - it seems so to me.
b) Can you suggest a list of other tests that I can perform to determine that the operating system is:
1) functionally operating:
2) won't later become inoperative
Can you suggest a list of criteria that can guide this list?
6) You have said:
"I would say that it is a risky business even starting a cleanup operation using Registry First Aid, UNLESS you were fully prepared to have to reinstall Windows from scratch when it removed a required registry entry."
This sounds like a fatal error can occur from applying a correction using Registry First Aid but are there "any" errors that can be considered fatal if the undo backup .reg file can be applied to reverse any detrimental effect? Or is this a false assumption?
Thank you.
Bob
Question 1:
From comments you have made, must I assume that even though I corrected the use of the wrong version of that msvcrt.dll file by its replacement with the proper version file from an earlier image backup, that I do not now have a functional Sound card?
Question 2:
Could you make a statement that you believe, if this is the case, that this is probably due to some other incorrect versions of driver files for the Sound card?
I had infomed you that, the case of that au30sbfm.vxd file, I had located in DriversHq(?) a version 4.06.2046 that was more recent than the version 4.05.2000 in my C:\Windows\System folder. Many of the other files in that set from the DriversHQ website also show that version 4.06.2046.
Question 3:
Could I replace the current set of Sound card driver files that were installed from my original Montego II installation disk performed relatively recently, by the, apparently, more recent files I downloaded from the Internet (in sets with and without the Sound Blaster Pro emulation) and be able to correct whatever malfunctions still exist in my Sound card? Or does this non-TBS source prevent its use?
Question 4 set:
I tried to work out a plan for use of Registry First Aid that I'd like you to comment on and correct my false assumptions:
1) Run the Registry First Aid for all types of invalid entries that are possible but set the program to check out only 10 or 100 at a time.
2) Make an undo registry backup of the set of 10 (or 100) in the Regedit4 .reg format so specific keys or sets of keys can be restored
3) Run the automatic corrections for that set recommended by Registry First Aid
4) Reboot the computerto put those corrections into effect
5) Check the computer to be sure that functionality is retained by the operating system.
It is here that i need to know whether my plan is workable since it depends on:
a) Will using the computer to perform my usual activities such as word processing, surfing the Internet, using specific applications, etc. provide at least one set of "testing" procedures? - it seems so to me.
b) Can you suggest a list of other tests that I can perform to determine that the operating system is:
1) functionally operating:
2) won't later become inoperative
Can you suggest a list of criteria that can guide this list?
6) You have said:
"I would say that it is a risky business even starting a cleanup operation using Registry First Aid, UNLESS you were fully prepared to have to reinstall Windows from scratch when it removed a required registry entry."
This sounds like a fatal error can occur from applying a correction using Registry First Aid but are there "any" errors that can be considered fatal if the undo backup .reg file can be applied to reverse any detrimental effect? Or is this a false assumption?
Thank you.
Bob
ASKER
Excuse me, but I didn't look over the material about the au30 set of files in your DrWatson Report so I'll have to study it more but I partially referred to that type of information in my last post. Will get back to you on this.
Bob
Bob
Hi Bob
Question 1:
Unfortunately I am in no position to be able to say whether the sound card and various related functions are now fully operational. The first thing I would do is ascertain if the Control Panel's "Multimedia" applet shows all tabs and buttons that should be available, or if they are still greyed-out. Then check the "properties" of a .WAV, .MID, and any other file types that normally show a "preview" option, and see if this is back to what it should be. I was taking the negative approach by assuming that the interruption by the wrong version of msvcrt.dll had disrupted the full and proper installation of the drivers. Hopefully I am wrong, but I have a feeling that the problems will not be corrected yet.
Question 2:
It is PROBABLE. Apart from that I would be guessing, but it's a logical thing to consider in view of the type of problems you had experienced. Mismatching versions of driver files CAN cause such problems. You will tend to find that, in any "set" of files in a driver installation package, the vast majority will have the same version number.
Generally I have a mistrust of driver packages downloaded from anywhere other than from the sound card vendor's website or from the computer manufacturer's website. I have seen too many instances of falsely/wrongly described packages before. You are relying on the knowledge and integrity of the person who uploaded them, and often on the feedback from others whose ability or knowledge cannot be assessed.
As indicated in my MSInfo32 Report appraisal, you have some files installed that are version 4.06.2046, and others that are the older version 4.05.2000. It's hard to say which are the originally-installed ones, but my suggestion was that we should be aiming towards getting them all to matching versions, preferably the more recent 4.06.2046.
The file "au30sbfm.vxd" is used for "Sound Blaster Pro Emulation", so if it existed previously as version 4.06.2046 when you disabled "Sound Blaster pro Emulation", then it is likely that it wasn't replaced by an older version because it was disabled at the time.
One program that you should perhaps download and install is WinRAR. You will be aware that there are some "Self-Extracting" .EXE files that are really nothing more than a WinZip .ZIP file converted into a self-contained package so that a user can unpack them with a double-click without having WinZip installed. You can still gain control over unzipping these by using WinZip's Right-Click Menu. Some of these "self-extracting" archives however, cannot be unpacked by WinZip because they were packaged using other utilities. Many of the Microsoft Updates and patches are such .EXE files that can be "Extracted" to their own folder using WinRAR so that you can inspect the contents.
You have spoken of a downloaded "DriversHq" package that you have. I'm not sure if this is an .EXE installer that is run, or if it is a .ZIP file. Installing WinRAR ensures that, as well as being able to unpackage WinZip-compatible packages, you can do the same with other types.
http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm
Version 3.51 (Trialware) http://www.rarlab.com/rar/wrar351.exe
It shows a "nag screen" if you don't buy it, but it's easy enough to live with.
Question 3:
That might be a good idea if your soundcard still isn't functioning, but MAKE NOTES as you do so. I would suggest first RENAMING the files to be replaced, rather than just overwriting them with the alternative versions. Rename them with the .OLD extension, and take notes of which ones were replaced. A clash between incompatible .VXD or .DLL file versions MAY make your system unbootable. If you replace the files two at a time, then it would still be easy enough to boot into DOS and rename the files back to .VXD or .DLL again after deleting the last two files you copied to that folder.
As long as you know how to navigate, delete, and rename files from the DOS Command Line, then you have an easy contingency plan. Here's the basic commands you might need. Copy them and print them out:
cd foldername - changes into the named folder
cd .. - changes to the parent folder
cd \ - changes back to the root of the current drive
dir - lists files AND folders in the current directory
dir /ad - list ONLY folders in the current directory
dir /a-d - list FILES ONLY, exclude folder names
dir /on - display listing alphabetically
dir
dir /b - List by name only, without the full path
dir /on /ad - easy way to get a list of the DOS names of sub-folders
ren filename.ext newname.ext - rename a file eg.
ren au30sbfm.vxd au30sbfm.OLD
del filename.ext - delete a file, eg.
del au30sbfm.vxd
copy drive:\path1\filename1.ext
- copy a file optionally as a new name, eg.
copy d:\backups\au30sbfm.OLD c:\windows\system\au30sbfm
attrib filename.ext - get file attributes
attrib -h -r -s filename.ext - remove hidden, read-only, and system attribute.
(can remove one or all attributes)
Handy if a file can't be moved, deleted or renamed because it is Hidden or Read-Only.
attrib +h +r +s filename.ext - add specified attribute to a file.
Question 4:
I tried to work out a plan for use of Registry First Aid that I'd like you to comment on and correct my false assumptions:
1) Go for something like 20 to 30 "fixes" at a time.
2) Imperative step. Make sure that it is in a path that has no spaces in the
folder names, and each folder name doesn't exceed 8 characters.
That way, if the system fails to boot, it is easier to restore the .REG file
back to the registry from DOS.
3) Yes
4) Essential step.
5):
a) It all depends on the nature of the registry entry that was "fixed".
General use, as you have suggested, would probably reveal any problems,
within a day or two, but some missing registry settings may only reveal
a problem quite some time later when a particular function is run.
b) General use. Open all applications and make sure they load. Do the most
common tasks in each, like File > Open, File > Save, etc. These use
"common dialogs" and resources. Browsing the internet and saving a few
files is probably the best all-round test of all.
6) As long as you have the backup .REG file, and only fix a limited number of
items from the list at a time, then missing registry entries that render
the system unbootable to Windows can be restored from DOS.
To merge a .REG file back to the registry from DOS, you have to call "regedit" which is in the C:\Windows folder, so it is better to change into that folder first and specify the path to the .REG file to be imported. Taken from the C:\> prompt:
cd windows
regedit c:\regfiles\first.reg
I believe that I mentioned some time back that I had noticed a curious effect of removing one or more registry entries using the utility "RegClean" and then rebooting. Where one entry was identified as being redundant, and was removed, another cross-referenced registry entry then became redundant at the reboot, even though it wasn't redundant before. The registry is made up of cross-linked and interdependent settings, and you have no way of knowing in advance which ones may end up orphaned and in need of the one just about to be removed.
That's the cautionary part, but if we used our computers in such a paranoic way, productivity would grind to a halt. Such risks are taken every time we install new software, and we just have to hope that the software was fully tested.
Bill
Question 1:
Unfortunately I am in no position to be able to say whether the sound card and various related functions are now fully operational. The first thing I would do is ascertain if the Control Panel's "Multimedia" applet shows all tabs and buttons that should be available, or if they are still greyed-out. Then check the "properties" of a .WAV, .MID, and any other file types that normally show a "preview" option, and see if this is back to what it should be. I was taking the negative approach by assuming that the interruption by the wrong version of msvcrt.dll had disrupted the full and proper installation of the drivers. Hopefully I am wrong, but I have a feeling that the problems will not be corrected yet.
Question 2:
It is PROBABLE. Apart from that I would be guessing, but it's a logical thing to consider in view of the type of problems you had experienced. Mismatching versions of driver files CAN cause such problems. You will tend to find that, in any "set" of files in a driver installation package, the vast majority will have the same version number.
Generally I have a mistrust of driver packages downloaded from anywhere other than from the sound card vendor's website or from the computer manufacturer's website. I have seen too many instances of falsely/wrongly described packages before. You are relying on the knowledge and integrity of the person who uploaded them, and often on the feedback from others whose ability or knowledge cannot be assessed.
As indicated in my MSInfo32 Report appraisal, you have some files installed that are version 4.06.2046, and others that are the older version 4.05.2000. It's hard to say which are the originally-installed ones, but my suggestion was that we should be aiming towards getting them all to matching versions, preferably the more recent 4.06.2046.
The file "au30sbfm.vxd" is used for "Sound Blaster Pro Emulation", so if it existed previously as version 4.06.2046 when you disabled "Sound Blaster pro Emulation", then it is likely that it wasn't replaced by an older version because it was disabled at the time.
One program that you should perhaps download and install is WinRAR. You will be aware that there are some "Self-Extracting" .EXE files that are really nothing more than a WinZip .ZIP file converted into a self-contained package so that a user can unpack them with a double-click without having WinZip installed. You can still gain control over unzipping these by using WinZip's Right-Click Menu. Some of these "self-extracting" archives however, cannot be unpacked by WinZip because they were packaged using other utilities. Many of the Microsoft Updates and patches are such .EXE files that can be "Extracted" to their own folder using WinRAR so that you can inspect the contents.
You have spoken of a downloaded "DriversHq" package that you have. I'm not sure if this is an .EXE installer that is run, or if it is a .ZIP file. Installing WinRAR ensures that, as well as being able to unpackage WinZip-compatible packages, you can do the same with other types.
http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm
Version 3.51 (Trialware) http://www.rarlab.com/rar/wrar351.exe
It shows a "nag screen" if you don't buy it, but it's easy enough to live with.
Question 3:
That might be a good idea if your soundcard still isn't functioning, but MAKE NOTES as you do so. I would suggest first RENAMING the files to be replaced, rather than just overwriting them with the alternative versions. Rename them with the .OLD extension, and take notes of which ones were replaced. A clash between incompatible .VXD or .DLL file versions MAY make your system unbootable. If you replace the files two at a time, then it would still be easy enough to boot into DOS and rename the files back to .VXD or .DLL again after deleting the last two files you copied to that folder.
As long as you know how to navigate, delete, and rename files from the DOS Command Line, then you have an easy contingency plan. Here's the basic commands you might need. Copy them and print them out:
cd foldername - changes into the named folder
cd .. - changes to the parent folder
cd \ - changes back to the root of the current drive
dir - lists files AND folders in the current directory
dir /ad - list ONLY folders in the current directory
dir /a-d - list FILES ONLY, exclude folder names
dir /on - display listing alphabetically
dir
dir /b - List by name only, without the full path
dir /on /ad - easy way to get a list of the DOS names of sub-folders
ren filename.ext newname.ext - rename a file eg.
ren au30sbfm.vxd au30sbfm.OLD
del filename.ext - delete a file, eg.
del au30sbfm.vxd
copy drive:\path1\filename1.ext
- copy a file optionally as a new name, eg.
copy d:\backups\au30sbfm.OLD c:\windows\system\au30sbfm
attrib filename.ext - get file attributes
attrib -h -r -s filename.ext - remove hidden, read-only, and system attribute.
(can remove one or all attributes)
Handy if a file can't be moved, deleted or renamed because it is Hidden or Read-Only.
attrib +h +r +s filename.ext - add specified attribute to a file.
Question 4:
I tried to work out a plan for use of Registry First Aid that I'd like you to comment on and correct my false assumptions:
1) Go for something like 20 to 30 "fixes" at a time.
2) Imperative step. Make sure that it is in a path that has no spaces in the
folder names, and each folder name doesn't exceed 8 characters.
That way, if the system fails to boot, it is easier to restore the .REG file
back to the registry from DOS.
3) Yes
4) Essential step.
5):
a) It all depends on the nature of the registry entry that was "fixed".
General use, as you have suggested, would probably reveal any problems,
within a day or two, but some missing registry settings may only reveal
a problem quite some time later when a particular function is run.
b) General use. Open all applications and make sure they load. Do the most
common tasks in each, like File > Open, File > Save, etc. These use
"common dialogs" and resources. Browsing the internet and saving a few
files is probably the best all-round test of all.
6) As long as you have the backup .REG file, and only fix a limited number of
items from the list at a time, then missing registry entries that render
the system unbootable to Windows can be restored from DOS.
To merge a .REG file back to the registry from DOS, you have to call "regedit" which is in the C:\Windows folder, so it is better to change into that folder first and specify the path to the .REG file to be imported. Taken from the C:\> prompt:
cd windows
regedit c:\regfiles\first.reg
I believe that I mentioned some time back that I had noticed a curious effect of removing one or more registry entries using the utility "RegClean" and then rebooting. Where one entry was identified as being redundant, and was removed, another cross-referenced registry entry then became redundant at the reboot, even though it wasn't redundant before. The registry is made up of cross-linked and interdependent settings, and you have no way of knowing in advance which ones may end up orphaned and in need of the one just about to be removed.
That's the cautionary part, but if we used our computers in such a paranoic way, productivity would grind to a halt. Such risks are taken every time we install new software, and we just have to hope that the software was fully tested.
Bill
ASKER
Hello Bill,
I thought I should remove those excess startup programs to help speed things up at least on bootup.
I just got rid of a number of startup programs leaving only the essentials, the anti-viral, spy ware, and external hard drive programs and I expected, at least, a noticeable reduction in boot up time but was disappointed. Only lopped off about a minute or so. The only other things I can think to do are to clean up garbage files and defragment but that isn't what I originally asked about. Don't worry I'll pay attention to it and feed back more info about the questions you've asked.
Bob
I thought I should remove those excess startup programs to help speed things up at least on bootup.
I just got rid of a number of startup programs leaving only the essentials, the anti-viral, spy ware, and external hard drive programs and I expected, at least, a noticeable reduction in boot up time but was disappointed. Only lopped off about a minute or so. The only other things I can think to do are to clean up garbage files and defragment but that isn't what I originally asked about. Don't worry I'll pay attention to it and feed back more info about the questions you've asked.
Bob
Yes, I agree. A defrag while you have those startups disabled is a good idea. There are a lot of startup programs that interfere with defrag, so now is a good time to do it.
ASKER
I'd like to get the following out of the way:
If you remember, I had told you that I had had difficulty installing the Norton Anti-Viral program portion of the full Norton SystemWorks because of a previous installation and uninstallation of the Anti-Viral program prior to attempting to install the whole package so I ended with just installing the Norton SystemWorks 2002 "shell" (if that is the correct word) and the Norton Utilities: Norton WinDoctor, and Norton Registry Editor (never tried to use the Registry Editor because of some detracting information about this) and it also offered some other Extra Features (never used either - names available if needed.)
So, my question now is whether I should, specifically, uninstall that (if it is possible) since you mentioned some possible interference with Trend Micro. There is an Add/Remove listing for the Norton SystemWorks 2002 in the Add/Remove Programs Properties box and in the Start Menu listing under Norton SystemWorks there is a menu item for Uninstalling Norton SystemWorks 2002. If you agree, is one of these better than the other for the purpose?
Bob
If you remember, I had told you that I had had difficulty installing the Norton Anti-Viral program portion of the full Norton SystemWorks because of a previous installation and uninstallation of the Anti-Viral program prior to attempting to install the whole package so I ended with just installing the Norton SystemWorks 2002 "shell" (if that is the correct word) and the Norton Utilities: Norton WinDoctor, and Norton Registry Editor (never tried to use the Registry Editor because of some detracting information about this) and it also offered some other Extra Features (never used either - names available if needed.)
So, my question now is whether I should, specifically, uninstall that (if it is possible) since you mentioned some possible interference with Trend Micro. There is an Add/Remove listing for the Norton SystemWorks 2002 in the Add/Remove Programs Properties box and in the Start Menu listing under Norton SystemWorks there is a menu item for Uninstalling Norton SystemWorks 2002. If you agree, is one of these better than the other for the purpose?
Bob
Bob
The Start Menu's "uninstall" shortcut probably does exactly the same thing as removing the program from the Add/Remove programs list.
Right-Click on the "uninstall" shortcut on the start menu and choose "properties".
Scroll over the command line in the "Target" field (and the "Start In" field if the target isn't the fully qualified path to the file to be run). Press Ctrl and C to copy the command line, and then paste into Notepad.
To compare this with the registry key that holds the "uninstall" list, type (or copy and paste) the following command into the Start Menu's "Run" field:
regedit /e %TEMP%\Uninstall_Key.txt HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
I have used the symbol <space> below to show where you have to leave spaces in the command, because it will spread itself over two lines on this page:
regedit <space> /e <space> %TEMP%\Uninstall_Key.txt <space> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
Now go to C:\Windows\TEMP and double-click on the file "Uninstall_Key.txt". Rather than Notepad, it will probably want to open in WordPad, which is OK because you aren't going to be editing it.
Either scroll down through it, or do a word search for "Symantec". Make it a non-case-sensitive search. This will give you some idea what components listed in Add/Remove Programs relate to Symantec/Norton products as the search stops on each "Publisher" value.
The text that displays in Add/Remove Programs is retrieved from the value "DisplayName"= in each block of text (ie. each registry key).
The actual command that is executed to "Uninstall" the program will be shown against the "UninstallString" Value. Take note of this, and change any double-backslashes to single ones.
Example:
"Publisher"="Symantec Corporation"
"UninstallString"="MsiExec
"DisplayName"="Norton AntiVirus 2002"
If that uninstall command differs from the one in the Start Menu shortcut's properties, eg. if the shortcut points to a file and the registry one is like the above, then the uninstall routines will differ between the options, and it is subjective to say which method would be better than the other. Personally, I would go for the registry one first, ie. from Add/Remove Programs list.
Feel free to zip up your exported registry .TXT file and email it to me if you are puzzled. I would actually find this quite informative and useful and can make some suggestions if you would like.
From what I can determine, and I've looked very carefully at your reports, you DON'T have any Symantec/Norton components as Startups or as "running processes", so the Uninstall SHOULD encounter no problems like "files in use" that won't be removed..
Things to be aware of:
NAV 2002 alone installs 2 extra programs that have to be separately removed from Add/Remove Programs, but always do this AFTER uninstalling the main application and rebooting:
LiveUpdate (Symantec Corporation)
LiveReg (Symantec Corporation)
You may or may not have these, and may have additional related.
Yes, go ahead and uninstall Norton SystemWorks and any other related uninstall listings from Add/Remove programs. By the sound of it, you don't use any of its utilities anyway, including Norton Ghost.
Bill
The Start Menu's "uninstall" shortcut probably does exactly the same thing as removing the program from the Add/Remove programs list.
Right-Click on the "uninstall" shortcut on the start menu and choose "properties".
Scroll over the command line in the "Target" field (and the "Start In" field if the target isn't the fully qualified path to the file to be run). Press Ctrl and C to copy the command line, and then paste into Notepad.
To compare this with the registry key that holds the "uninstall" list, type (or copy and paste) the following command into the Start Menu's "Run" field:
regedit /e %TEMP%\Uninstall_Key.txt HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
I have used the symbol <space> below to show where you have to leave spaces in the command, because it will spread itself over two lines on this page:
regedit <space> /e <space> %TEMP%\Uninstall_Key.txt <space> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
Now go to C:\Windows\TEMP and double-click on the file "Uninstall_Key.txt". Rather than Notepad, it will probably want to open in WordPad, which is OK because you aren't going to be editing it.
Either scroll down through it, or do a word search for "Symantec". Make it a non-case-sensitive search. This will give you some idea what components listed in Add/Remove Programs relate to Symantec/Norton products as the search stops on each "Publisher" value.
The text that displays in Add/Remove Programs is retrieved from the value "DisplayName"= in each block of text (ie. each registry key).
The actual command that is executed to "Uninstall" the program will be shown against the "UninstallString" Value. Take note of this, and change any double-backslashes to single ones.
Example:
"Publisher"="Symantec Corporation"
"UninstallString"="MsiExec
"DisplayName"="Norton AntiVirus 2002"
If that uninstall command differs from the one in the Start Menu shortcut's properties, eg. if the shortcut points to a file and the registry one is like the above, then the uninstall routines will differ between the options, and it is subjective to say which method would be better than the other. Personally, I would go for the registry one first, ie. from Add/Remove Programs list.
Feel free to zip up your exported registry .TXT file and email it to me if you are puzzled. I would actually find this quite informative and useful and can make some suggestions if you would like.
From what I can determine, and I've looked very carefully at your reports, you DON'T have any Symantec/Norton components as Startups or as "running processes", so the Uninstall SHOULD encounter no problems like "files in use" that won't be removed..
Things to be aware of:
NAV 2002 alone installs 2 extra programs that have to be separately removed from Add/Remove Programs, but always do this AFTER uninstalling the main application and rebooting:
LiveUpdate (Symantec Corporation)
LiveReg (Symantec Corporation)
You may or may not have these, and may have additional related.
Yes, go ahead and uninstall Norton SystemWorks and any other related uninstall listings from Add/Remove programs. By the sound of it, you don't use any of its utilities anyway, including Norton Ghost.
Bill
ASKER
Hello Bill,
Question 1 set:
You had asked for an Exported registry.txt file and gave me specific directions for that but, until I can get that, I have sent, via an email attachment, the following:
I hope this file, gives a reasonable duplicate way to get the Uninstall_Key.txt file, at least, as far as its information goes. I don't know if this gets all that you were after via the Run "regedit /e %TEMP%\Uninstall_Key.txt HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softewa
Question 2 set:
If you'll remember I had had the problem with installing NAV 2002, apparently, because a prior installlation of NAV (and uninstallation of NAV) had left some remnant of it in my system, so on attempted reinstallation of NAV during the installation of the full Norton SystemWorks 2002 it had been blocked during the attempt to install the full Norton SystemWorks 2002. Could it be that the other programs you mentioned - LiveUpdate and LiveReg - both of which appear in the Add/Remove listing, were what Symantec techsupport neglected to instruct me to remove when they advised me to use Rnav2003.exe and remove various registry entries that still didn't allow me to install NAV along with SystemWorks? It seems hard to believe that their techsupport wouldn't have known about this reason for removing that block to reinstallation of NAV but I don't remember having been advised about that (which certainly doesn't mean, absolutely that they didn't so advise me.) I hope this description is clear.
Question 3 set:
When I went through that process of removing those entries from the Starup tab listing, I had unchecked MSMSGS along with many others and clicked on Apply and rebooted. However, on rechecking the Startup tab listing somehow the MSMSGS listing was still checked so, apparently, even though it was not needed, the "system" has rechecked it. How is this overcome and what explains the reappearance?
Question 4 set:
Could you also tell me why there are duplicates of some entries (actually many of them) in the Startup tab listing?
What would happen if I checked 2 of the same entries?
Would that lead to 2 copies being in memory on startup?
Bob
Question 1 set:
You had asked for an Exported registry.txt file and gave me specific directions for that but, until I can get that, I have sent, via an email attachment, the following:
I hope this file, gives a reasonable duplicate way to get the Uninstall_Key.txt file, at least, as far as its information goes. I don't know if this gets all that you were after via the Run "regedit /e %TEMP%\Uninstall_Key.txt HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softewa
Question 2 set:
If you'll remember I had had the problem with installing NAV 2002, apparently, because a prior installlation of NAV (and uninstallation of NAV) had left some remnant of it in my system, so on attempted reinstallation of NAV during the installation of the full Norton SystemWorks 2002 it had been blocked during the attempt to install the full Norton SystemWorks 2002. Could it be that the other programs you mentioned - LiveUpdate and LiveReg - both of which appear in the Add/Remove listing, were what Symantec techsupport neglected to instruct me to remove when they advised me to use Rnav2003.exe and remove various registry entries that still didn't allow me to install NAV along with SystemWorks? It seems hard to believe that their techsupport wouldn't have known about this reason for removing that block to reinstallation of NAV but I don't remember having been advised about that (which certainly doesn't mean, absolutely that they didn't so advise me.) I hope this description is clear.
Question 3 set:
When I went through that process of removing those entries from the Starup tab listing, I had unchecked MSMSGS along with many others and clicked on Apply and rebooted. However, on rechecking the Startup tab listing somehow the MSMSGS listing was still checked so, apparently, even though it was not needed, the "system" has rechecked it. How is this overcome and what explains the reappearance?
Question 4 set:
Could you also tell me why there are duplicates of some entries (actually many of them) in the Startup tab listing?
What would happen if I checked 2 of the same entries?
Would that lead to 2 copies being in memory on startup?
Bob
Hi Bob
Q1.
I received your "Registry First Aid" word search results for the expression "Symantec". While it does whittle down the results slightly, it still gives 476 results. Most of these are the "Most Recently Used" files and folders indexed in your registry by some piece of software known as "FileNavigator_26", which I assume means Version 2.6. The Registry First Aid report format is unnecessarily verbose, and I was actually looking for a .REG file export with the proper syntax from which I could see exactly what is installed, where to, and from where. This would help me to understand any previous installation and uninstallation problems concerning Symantec applications, and to possibly anticipate any problems with reinstalling or uninstalling any of them. As it stands with the Registry First Aid report, is that it takes a long while and patience to extract from it the lines of text I would need, and doing so involves the potential for errors.
Q 2.
Out of curiosity, the first thing I did was use the Wordpad (I always open other peoples' Word doc's in Wordpad) Find option to find all instances of D:\
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
"Path"= "D:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1\NORT
This is the registry key that stores the "path" to program files so that they can be referred programmatically by only the file name, so any calls to "norton.exe" by other applications or processes witll find the file at EITHER of the folders shown above. It's hard to know what the first one refers to, because it is abbreviated into DOS Short Filename format, but I would guess something like this:
D:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks\Norton Utilities
C:\Program Files\Symantec
Whether there ARE Norton SystemWorks or Norton Utilities components installed to the folder on the C:\ Drive, I am not sure about. It may just be that the installer also creates its default "path" in addition to (and superseded by, the one that you actually installed to ie. the D:\ Drive.
I CAN, however, see that you will have a listing in your Add/Remove Programs to uninstall "Norton Utilities 2002 for Windows", and that this WILL uninstall it from the above folder on the D:\ Drive.
I assume that Norton Utilities was installed as part of Norton SystemWorks, in which case it is a separately uninstallable program because there should also be an Add/Remove listing that shows as: "Norton SystemWorks 2002". Your PROBLEM is that there does not seem to be an "UninstallString" command to actually uninstall "Norton SystemWorks 2002".
I think that the best you could do is try and uninstall in the following order from "Add/Remove Programs":
1. "Norton SystemWorks 2002"
2. Any other separete listings of Norton/Symantec products (EXCEPT the following)
2. Norton AntiVirus
4. Live Update
5. Live Reg
Reboot in between each.
To clean things up, run the following utilities:
1. "Norton SystemWorks Cleanup Utility":
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/docid/2001101612274407
ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/products/norton_systemworks/ver5.0/tools/SYMCLN.EXE
2. Symantec "RNAV" (remove norton antivirus" utility)
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/2001092114452606
ftp://ftp.symantec.com/misc/consumer/Rnav2003.exe
or follow instructions to manually remove it:
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sunset-c2002kb.nsf/docid/2001080593728566
It becomes VERY complicated to remove every last vestige of the prior existence of these programs, but that should clean up most.
Q3.
MSMSGS.EXE is dependent on MSNMSGR.EXE (Microsoft Messenger). These files, and others, are in the folder C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger.
First of all, sever any possible connection with Norton AntiVirus, preferably before uninstalling the Norton/Symantec programs. Start Messenger (no need to log in) and access the "Tools > Options" Menu under the "Messages" tab. Delete the line in the "Scan Files for Viruses Using...", and then untick the box. Click "OK" to close the options dialog, Close Messenger, and then reopen it.
Under the "General" tab, untick the boxes:
"Automatically run Messenger when I log into Windows"
"Automatically sign in when connected to the Internet".
Click Click "OK" to close the options dialog, and Close Messenger.
Right-Click on its icon in the System Tray and choose "Exit".
Open Outlook Express, and access the Tools > Options Menu under the "General" tab.
Untick "Automatically Log onto Microsoft Messenger" (may say "Windows Messenger).
Click "Apply", then "OK" to close the dialog.
Close Outlook Express.
Reboot and look in MSCONFIG's "startup" tab. If the MSMSGS item is ticked again, try disabling it now, "Applying" the change, clicking "OK", and then rebooting.
Are you absolutely sure that you have been clicking the "APPLY" button after making an MSCONFIG change?
Q 4.
>>> "duplicates of some entries (actually many of them) in the Startup tab listing" <<<
I described ALL of your startup entries exhaustively in my Appraisal of your Dr. Watson Report, and provided suggestions as to which you should disable, and which may be required at startup. Let's look at them again - shown with the "Name" of the process (not the file) that appears in MSCONFIG's startup tab, and the actual command that is used to run that startup at boot:
Launched from a shortcut in the Start Menu's "Startup" folder
--------------------------
1. HotSync Manager
C:\Palm\hotsync.exe
2. EPSON Status Monitor 3 Environment Check 2
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\E_SRCV02
3. Express Assist Check
"D:\Program Files\Express Assist\EA2Check.exe"
4. Microtek Scanner Finder
"D:\Program Files\Microtek\ScanWizard 5\ScannerFinder.exe"
5. Dataviz Messenger
C:\WINDOWS\DvzCommon\DvzMs
6. Real-time Agent ***
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
Trend Micro\PC-cillin\pccguide.e
Launched from a registry entry
--------------------------
7. MSMSGS
"C:\PROGRAM FILES\MESSENGER\MSMSGS.EXE
8. CriticalUpdate
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\wucrtupd
9. System Sentry
D:\PROGRA~1\EASYDE~1\SYSTE
10. ScanRegistry
C:\WINDOWS\scanregw.exe /autorun
11. SystemTray
SysTray.Exe
12. TaskMonitor
C:\WINDOWS\taskmon.exe
13. QuickTime Task
"C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\QTTASK.
14. pccguide.exe ***
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\Internet Security 2005\pccguide.exe"
15. SSBkgdUpdate
"C:\Program Files\Common Files\Scansoft Shared\SSBkgdUpdate\
SSBkgdupdate.exe" -Embedding -boot
16. Opware14
"D:\Program Files\ScanSoft\OmniPagePro
17. OpScheduler
"D:\Program Files\ScanSoft\OmniPagePro
18. FLMOFFICE4DMOUSE
C:\Program Files\Browser Mouse\moffice.exe
19. WDCBG
C:\WINDOWS\WDCBG.EXE
20. WD Button Manager
WDBtnMgr.exe
21. SpySweeper
"C:\PROGRAM FILES\WEBROOT\SPY SWEEPER\SPYSWEEPER.EXE" /startintray
22. Acronis True Image Monitor
"D:\PROGRAM FILES\Acronis\TrueImage\Tr
23. Acronis Scheduler2 Service
"C:\PROGRAM FILES\COMMON FILES\Acronis\Schedule2\sc
24. WinMBR
C:\SC\WINMBR.EXE
25. PCCPFW
C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
PC-cillin\PCCPFW.exe
26. TmPfw
*** No Command Listed ***
27. PcCtlCom
C:\PROGRAM FILES\TREND MICRO\INTERNET SECURITY 2005\PCCTLCOM.EXE
28. KB891711
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KB891711
29. Retrospect
WD Service C:\PROGRAM FILES\DANTZ\RETROSPECT\WDS
30. Retrospect Launcher
C:\PROGRAM FILES\DANTZ\RETROSPECT\RET
31. Acronis Scheduler2 Service
"C:\PROGRAM FILES\COMMON FILES\Acronis\Schedule2\sc
The only "Duplicate" startups that I can see, and I have no reason to believe that anything since could have duplicated the entries in the startup list, are No's 6 and 14 which I discussed in FULL detail along with my concerns in the appraisal of the DR. Watson Report:
6. Real-time Agent - runs from a shortcuts in your "Start Menu\Programs\Startup" folder, and can either be disabled using the MSCONFIG tick-boxes under the "startup" tab, or by temporarily moving the shortcuts from your Start Menu onto the desktop and rebooting. These are the programs which load LAST, and carry on loading even after your Desktop and Taskbar have loaded fully.
This startup runs the command:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
14. pccguide.exe - Runs from a registry setting to launch "pcguide.exe" from a different folder, ie:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\Internet Security 2005\pccguide.exe".
My observations were that it looked to me as though Startup Item No. 6 is opening a version of this file from a folder created by UPDATES of PC-Cillin ie. the sub-folder named "TIS11_1110", which seemed to me to be a version number. I will need to find out more about this.
The ONLY other duplicated entry should be "LoadPowerProfile", and this is a normal entry along with the following ones that should be left enabled meantime:
10. ScanRegistry - Required
11. SystemTray - Required
12. TaskMonitor - Required
You asked:
"What would happen if I checked 2 of the same entries?
Would that lead to 2 copies being in memory on startup?".
YES, that IS what was happening on your system, or at least it would TRY to load both into memory. That is why I was particularly concerned about these two startups and suggested disabling both. Read the "Dr. Watson Appraisal" that I emailed to you again, and particularly read my comments about your startup programs.
The other startup entry that caused me concern, and may have explained why your Trend Micro Firewall wasn't working, and you were being shown an error message, was:
26. TmPfw
There is No Command Listed against this registry setting, so the system was reading this at boot, but couldn't find the executable "TmPfw.exe" to load the "Trend Micro Personal Firewall".
Regards
Bill
Q1.
I received your "Registry First Aid" word search results for the expression "Symantec". While it does whittle down the results slightly, it still gives 476 results. Most of these are the "Most Recently Used" files and folders indexed in your registry by some piece of software known as "FileNavigator_26", which I assume means Version 2.6. The Registry First Aid report format is unnecessarily verbose, and I was actually looking for a .REG file export with the proper syntax from which I could see exactly what is installed, where to, and from where. This would help me to understand any previous installation and uninstallation problems concerning Symantec applications, and to possibly anticipate any problems with reinstalling or uninstalling any of them. As it stands with the Registry First Aid report, is that it takes a long while and patience to extract from it the lines of text I would need, and doing so involves the potential for errors.
Q 2.
Out of curiosity, the first thing I did was use the Wordpad (I always open other peoples' Word doc's in Wordpad) Find option to find all instances of D:\
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
"Path"= "D:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1\NORT
This is the registry key that stores the "path" to program files so that they can be referred programmatically by only the file name, so any calls to "norton.exe" by other applications or processes witll find the file at EITHER of the folders shown above. It's hard to know what the first one refers to, because it is abbreviated into DOS Short Filename format, but I would guess something like this:
D:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks\Norton Utilities
C:\Program Files\Symantec
Whether there ARE Norton SystemWorks or Norton Utilities components installed to the folder on the C:\ Drive, I am not sure about. It may just be that the installer also creates its default "path" in addition to (and superseded by, the one that you actually installed to ie. the D:\ Drive.
I CAN, however, see that you will have a listing in your Add/Remove Programs to uninstall "Norton Utilities 2002 for Windows", and that this WILL uninstall it from the above folder on the D:\ Drive.
I assume that Norton Utilities was installed as part of Norton SystemWorks, in which case it is a separately uninstallable program because there should also be an Add/Remove listing that shows as: "Norton SystemWorks 2002". Your PROBLEM is that there does not seem to be an "UninstallString" command to actually uninstall "Norton SystemWorks 2002".
I think that the best you could do is try and uninstall in the following order from "Add/Remove Programs":
1. "Norton SystemWorks 2002"
2. Any other separete listings of Norton/Symantec products (EXCEPT the following)
2. Norton AntiVirus
4. Live Update
5. Live Reg
Reboot in between each.
To clean things up, run the following utilities:
1. "Norton SystemWorks Cleanup Utility":
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nsw.nsf/docid/2001101612274407
ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/products/norton_systemworks/ver5.0/tools/SYMCLN.EXE
2. Symantec "RNAV" (remove norton antivirus" utility)
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/2001092114452606
ftp://ftp.symantec.com/misc/consumer/Rnav2003.exe
or follow instructions to manually remove it:
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sunset-c2002kb.nsf/docid/2001080593728566
It becomes VERY complicated to remove every last vestige of the prior existence of these programs, but that should clean up most.
Q3.
MSMSGS.EXE is dependent on MSNMSGR.EXE (Microsoft Messenger). These files, and others, are in the folder C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger.
First of all, sever any possible connection with Norton AntiVirus, preferably before uninstalling the Norton/Symantec programs. Start Messenger (no need to log in) and access the "Tools > Options" Menu under the "Messages" tab. Delete the line in the "Scan Files for Viruses Using...", and then untick the box. Click "OK" to close the options dialog, Close Messenger, and then reopen it.
Under the "General" tab, untick the boxes:
"Automatically run Messenger when I log into Windows"
"Automatically sign in when connected to the Internet".
Click Click "OK" to close the options dialog, and Close Messenger.
Right-Click on its icon in the System Tray and choose "Exit".
Open Outlook Express, and access the Tools > Options Menu under the "General" tab.
Untick "Automatically Log onto Microsoft Messenger" (may say "Windows Messenger).
Click "Apply", then "OK" to close the dialog.
Close Outlook Express.
Reboot and look in MSCONFIG's "startup" tab. If the MSMSGS item is ticked again, try disabling it now, "Applying" the change, clicking "OK", and then rebooting.
Are you absolutely sure that you have been clicking the "APPLY" button after making an MSCONFIG change?
Q 4.
>>> "duplicates of some entries (actually many of them) in the Startup tab listing" <<<
I described ALL of your startup entries exhaustively in my Appraisal of your Dr. Watson Report, and provided suggestions as to which you should disable, and which may be required at startup. Let's look at them again - shown with the "Name" of the process (not the file) that appears in MSCONFIG's startup tab, and the actual command that is used to run that startup at boot:
Launched from a shortcut in the Start Menu's "Startup" folder
--------------------------
1. HotSync Manager
C:\Palm\hotsync.exe
2. EPSON Status Monitor 3 Environment Check 2
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\E_SRCV02
3. Express Assist Check
"D:\Program Files\Express Assist\EA2Check.exe"
4. Microtek Scanner Finder
"D:\Program Files\Microtek\ScanWizard 5\ScannerFinder.exe"
5. Dataviz Messenger
C:\WINDOWS\DvzCommon\DvzMs
6. Real-time Agent ***
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
Trend Micro\PC-cillin\pccguide.e
Launched from a registry entry
--------------------------
7. MSMSGS
"C:\PROGRAM FILES\MESSENGER\MSMSGS.EXE
8. CriticalUpdate
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\wucrtupd
9. System Sentry
D:\PROGRA~1\EASYDE~1\SYSTE
10. ScanRegistry
C:\WINDOWS\scanregw.exe /autorun
11. SystemTray
SysTray.Exe
12. TaskMonitor
C:\WINDOWS\taskmon.exe
13. QuickTime Task
"C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\QTTASK.
14. pccguide.exe ***
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\Internet Security 2005\pccguide.exe"
15. SSBkgdUpdate
"C:\Program Files\Common Files\Scansoft Shared\SSBkgdUpdate\
SSBkgdupdate.exe" -Embedding -boot
16. Opware14
"D:\Program Files\ScanSoft\OmniPagePro
17. OpScheduler
"D:\Program Files\ScanSoft\OmniPagePro
18. FLMOFFICE4DMOUSE
C:\Program Files\Browser Mouse\moffice.exe
19. WDCBG
C:\WINDOWS\WDCBG.EXE
20. WD Button Manager
WDBtnMgr.exe
21. SpySweeper
"C:\PROGRAM FILES\WEBROOT\SPY SWEEPER\SPYSWEEPER.EXE" /startintray
22. Acronis True Image Monitor
"D:\PROGRAM FILES\Acronis\TrueImage\Tr
23. Acronis Scheduler2 Service
"C:\PROGRAM FILES\COMMON FILES\Acronis\Schedule2\sc
24. WinMBR
C:\SC\WINMBR.EXE
25. PCCPFW
C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
PC-cillin\PCCPFW.exe
26. TmPfw
*** No Command Listed ***
27. PcCtlCom
C:\PROGRAM FILES\TREND MICRO\INTERNET SECURITY 2005\PCCTLCOM.EXE
28. KB891711
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KB891711
29. Retrospect
WD Service C:\PROGRAM FILES\DANTZ\RETROSPECT\WDS
30. Retrospect Launcher
C:\PROGRAM FILES\DANTZ\RETROSPECT\RET
31. Acronis Scheduler2 Service
"C:\PROGRAM FILES\COMMON FILES\Acronis\Schedule2\sc
The only "Duplicate" startups that I can see, and I have no reason to believe that anything since could have duplicated the entries in the startup list, are No's 6 and 14 which I discussed in FULL detail along with my concerns in the appraisal of the DR. Watson Report:
6. Real-time Agent - runs from a shortcuts in your "Start Menu\Programs\Startup" folder, and can either be disabled using the MSCONFIG tick-boxes under the "startup" tab, or by temporarily moving the shortcuts from your Start Menu onto the desktop and rebooting. These are the programs which load LAST, and carry on loading even after your Desktop and Taskbar have loaded fully.
This startup runs the command:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\TIS11_1110\Setup\pro
14. pccguide.exe - Runs from a registry setting to launch "pcguide.exe" from a different folder, ie:
"C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\Internet Security 2005\pccguide.exe".
My observations were that it looked to me as though Startup Item No. 6 is opening a version of this file from a folder created by UPDATES of PC-Cillin ie. the sub-folder named "TIS11_1110", which seemed to me to be a version number. I will need to find out more about this.
The ONLY other duplicated entry should be "LoadPowerProfile", and this is a normal entry along with the following ones that should be left enabled meantime:
10. ScanRegistry - Required
11. SystemTray - Required
12. TaskMonitor - Required
You asked:
"What would happen if I checked 2 of the same entries?
Would that lead to 2 copies being in memory on startup?".
YES, that IS what was happening on your system, or at least it would TRY to load both into memory. That is why I was particularly concerned about these two startups and suggested disabling both. Read the "Dr. Watson Appraisal" that I emailed to you again, and particularly read my comments about your startup programs.
The other startup entry that caused me concern, and may have explained why your Trend Micro Firewall wasn't working, and you were being shown an error message, was:
26. TmPfw
There is No Command Listed against this registry setting, so the system was reading this at boot, but couldn't find the executable "TmPfw.exe" to load the "Trend Micro Personal Firewall".
Regards
Bill
In fact, I've just looked again at your MSInfo32 Report (*.nfo file) under the "Running Tasks" section.
It seems that somehow TmPfw.exe (version 11.10.0.1299) ended up being loaded from:
C:\PROGRAM FILES\TREND MICRO\TIS11_1110\SETUP\PRO
The only thing I can think is that it searched for, and found, this file by checking other known "paths".
It seems also that the system eventually only loaded ONE instance of "pcguide.exe" (version 12.10.0.1014) from:
C:\PROGRAM FILES\TREND MICRO\INTERNET SECURITY 2005\Pccguide.exe
nevertheless, this would still cause confusion at startup and a slowing down of the boot process.
I believe that the problems you had with Trend Micro Internet Security related to the fact that the previous version 11 did not uninstall properly, and SOME Version 11 components were running from the folder:
C:\PROGRAM FILES\TREND MICRO\TIS11_1110\SETUP\PRO
for example the "PC-Cillin Personal Firewall" Pccpfw.exe (version 11.10.0.1299)
while other Version 12 components were running from the folder:
C:\PROGRAM FILES\TREND MICRO\INTERNET SECURITY 2005
for example "Pcctlcom.exe" (version 12.10.0.1034).
It seems that somehow TmPfw.exe (version 11.10.0.1299) ended up being loaded from:
C:\PROGRAM FILES\TREND MICRO\TIS11_1110\SETUP\PRO
The only thing I can think is that it searched for, and found, this file by checking other known "paths".
It seems also that the system eventually only loaded ONE instance of "pcguide.exe" (version 12.10.0.1014) from:
C:\PROGRAM FILES\TREND MICRO\INTERNET SECURITY 2005\Pccguide.exe
nevertheless, this would still cause confusion at startup and a slowing down of the boot process.
I believe that the problems you had with Trend Micro Internet Security related to the fact that the previous version 11 did not uninstall properly, and SOME Version 11 components were running from the folder:
C:\PROGRAM FILES\TREND MICRO\TIS11_1110\SETUP\PRO
for example the "PC-Cillin Personal Firewall" Pccpfw.exe (version 11.10.0.1299)
while other Version 12 components were running from the folder:
C:\PROGRAM FILES\TREND MICRO\INTERNET SECURITY 2005
for example "Pcctlcom.exe" (version 12.10.0.1034).
ASKER
Hello Bill,
Thanks for the material. A problem has come up that may take me away for a day or two. Please don't give up on me. I'll get back.
Bob
Thanks for the material. A problem has come up that may take me away for a day or two. Please don't give up on me. I'll get back.
Bob
I'll still be here :-)
ASKER
Hi Bii,
I had actually removed many of your suggested programs from my Startup list except the Trend Micro Anti-Viral program, Spy Sweeper, and the suggested set as I understood it (Scan Registry, System Tray, CriticalUpdate, TaskMonitor) however the KB891711.exe file prompts some questions:
I have found a folder named KB891711 and dated 3/11/05 in my C:\WINDOWS\System folder and a file named KB891711.exe dated 3/23/05 within that folder.
a) It is not clear whether that should be deleted and updated from WindowsUpdate, or even whether it would still be available to me at this date?
b) Isn't it unusual that the file itself does not have the same date as the folder?
I don’t know where I got the idea that I had so many duplicated entries in the Startup tab listings of the System Configuration Utility but the only such listings I can now find are the following (and I did click on that Apply button):
Checked MSMSGS C:\PROGRAM FILES\MESSENGER\MSGS.EXE” /background
and
Unchecked MSMSGS C:\PROGRAM FILES\MESSENGER\MSGS.EXE” /background
Checked EPSON Status Monitor 3 Monitor 3 Environment Check 2 C:\WINDOWS\System\E_SRCV02
and
Unchecked EPSON Status Monitor 3 Monitor 3 Environment Check 2 C:\WINDOWS\System\E_SRCV02
So, I believe my questions, while not related to nearly as extensive a set as I thought, are still legitimate:
Why should there be any duplicates in this set?
and
Why, when I have unchecked them and clicked on the Apply button, were they rechecked on rebooting?
I am not aware of any malfunctioning from this effect however but, I certainly suppose, there could be. In any event the removal of all those programs from startup did not significantly reduce the time it took to boot the computer
Bob
I had actually removed many of your suggested programs from my Startup list except the Trend Micro Anti-Viral program, Spy Sweeper, and the suggested set as I understood it (Scan Registry, System Tray, CriticalUpdate, TaskMonitor) however the KB891711.exe file prompts some questions:
I have found a folder named KB891711 and dated 3/11/05 in my C:\WINDOWS\System folder and a file named KB891711.exe dated 3/23/05 within that folder.
a) It is not clear whether that should be deleted and updated from WindowsUpdate, or even whether it would still be available to me at this date?
b) Isn't it unusual that the file itself does not have the same date as the folder?
I don’t know where I got the idea that I had so many duplicated entries in the Startup tab listings of the System Configuration Utility but the only such listings I can now find are the following (and I did click on that Apply button):
Checked MSMSGS C:\PROGRAM FILES\MESSENGER\MSGS.EXE” /background
and
Unchecked MSMSGS C:\PROGRAM FILES\MESSENGER\MSGS.EXE” /background
Checked EPSON Status Monitor 3 Monitor 3 Environment Check 2 C:\WINDOWS\System\E_SRCV02
and
Unchecked EPSON Status Monitor 3 Monitor 3 Environment Check 2 C:\WINDOWS\System\E_SRCV02
So, I believe my questions, while not related to nearly as extensive a set as I thought, are still legitimate:
Why should there be any duplicates in this set?
and
Why, when I have unchecked them and clicked on the Apply button, were they rechecked on rebooting?
I am not aware of any malfunctioning from this effect however but, I certainly suppose, there could be. In any event the removal of all those programs from startup did not significantly reduce the time it took to boot the computer
Bob
Hi Bob
You can occasionally end up with duplicated items in the msconfig startup list if you have previously disabled a startup process through msconfig, and you then re-enable it through the program's user options OR if, while it is disabled, the program is reinstalled.
Your Epson Status Monitor 3 startup is usually from a shortcut named "EPSON Status Monitor 3 Environment Check" in the "Startup" folder on your Start Menu. It would be easy enough to check and see if there are two shortcuts to the same program, but with slightly different names.
Usually if you check the duplicated one that is unchecked, and then apply the changes with a reboot, the duplicate entry is removed.
Regarding the KB891711.exe startup, that version date is recent enough to be the new and fixed version, so I wouldn't worry about that. It would probably be wise to leave it disabled temporarily while troubleshooting though. Different dates aren't unusual when looking at the folder and file within it. There are a lot of reasons this can happen, but aren't worth worrying about.
Perhaps temporarily disabling the startups hasn't reduced the boot time much, but it will have reduced the number of background processes that can interfere with shutdowns and reboots required immediately after installing software and drivers, and sometimes the actual presence of background processes can interfere with the installation process.
Have you made any decisions about uninstalling Trend Micro applications and reinstalling?
Bill
You can occasionally end up with duplicated items in the msconfig startup list if you have previously disabled a startup process through msconfig, and you then re-enable it through the program's user options OR if, while it is disabled, the program is reinstalled.
Your Epson Status Monitor 3 startup is usually from a shortcut named "EPSON Status Monitor 3 Environment Check" in the "Startup" folder on your Start Menu. It would be easy enough to check and see if there are two shortcuts to the same program, but with slightly different names.
Usually if you check the duplicated one that is unchecked, and then apply the changes with a reboot, the duplicate entry is removed.
Regarding the KB891711.exe startup, that version date is recent enough to be the new and fixed version, so I wouldn't worry about that. It would probably be wise to leave it disabled temporarily while troubleshooting though. Different dates aren't unusual when looking at the folder and file within it. There are a lot of reasons this can happen, but aren't worth worrying about.
Perhaps temporarily disabling the startups hasn't reduced the boot time much, but it will have reduced the number of background processes that can interfere with shutdowns and reboots required immediately after installing software and drivers, and sometimes the actual presence of background processes can interfere with the installation process.
Have you made any decisions about uninstalling Trend Micro applications and reinstalling?
Bill
ASKER
I had uninstalled and reinstalled the Trend Micro Internet Security 2005 application and deleted the Trend Micro folder and that restored the program antiviral, firewall & updating functionality but did not remove the Tsc recurrent task problem which continues.
I was getting an error with use of Spy Sweeper calling for reinstallation of Spy Sweeper, my spyware program, which Trend Micro techsupport thought might remedy the Tsc problem on Trend Mico but it didn't.
Bob
I was getting an error with use of Spy Sweeper calling for reinstallation of Spy Sweeper, my spyware program, which Trend Micro techsupport thought might remedy the Tsc problem on Trend Mico but it didn't.
Bob
ASKER
And, incidentally, I am following through with a further update to Trend Micro Internet Security 2006 and I will discuss with them cleaning up that previous installation of the D: drive installation of Trend Micro.
Bob
Bob
ASKER
I'm sorry not to have gotten back to you before this but I'll tell you my sorry tale:
As listed above I stated I was going to ask the techsupport at Trend Micro for cleanup info on, at least, the D: drive installation of the Trend Micro PC-cillin installation. That finally expanded to the other installation of all the earlier installations of the earlier versions of TMIS on the C: drive as well. This involved going to that drive, the C: or D: drive, the Program File folder/Trend Micro/the Particular Subfolder for the particular installation where I would find a file name pcctool.exe which should be clicked on and would be presented with a box with an Uninstall tab that would present an Uninstall button. When clicked on that would uninstall that would uninstall the particular installation.
However, when I did the last of these, I was presented with a message telling me that I would have to reboot for these to take effect. When I did that and it attempted to reboot I was presented with a blue screen message telling me "Error loading Explorer.exe You must reinstall Windows and was presented with an OK button. When that was clicked on my computer shut down.
I was able to get my computer back up by using a different registry but was only able to use that about 3 different times and now since I can only get on my computer through the Safe mode, I have to go to a friend's computer to reach you so there will be some lag in communication until I can get back up.
So, it has finally happened. I guess I'm forced to reinstall my operating system. However, in the matter of temporizing, I have found registry backups from 9/4/04 and a 8/15/05 and, now that I am thinking about it I might have other registry backups from my 7/05/05 C: drive image backup for that matter.
Thank you.
Bob
As listed above I stated I was going to ask the techsupport at Trend Micro for cleanup info on, at least, the D: drive installation of the Trend Micro PC-cillin installation. That finally expanded to the other installation of all the earlier installations of the earlier versions of TMIS on the C: drive as well. This involved going to that drive, the C: or D: drive, the Program File folder/Trend Micro/the Particular Subfolder for the particular installation where I would find a file name pcctool.exe which should be clicked on and would be presented with a box with an Uninstall tab that would present an Uninstall button. When clicked on that would uninstall that would uninstall the particular installation.
However, when I did the last of these, I was presented with a message telling me that I would have to reboot for these to take effect. When I did that and it attempted to reboot I was presented with a blue screen message telling me "Error loading Explorer.exe You must reinstall Windows and was presented with an OK button. When that was clicked on my computer shut down.
I was able to get my computer back up by using a different registry but was only able to use that about 3 different times and now since I can only get on my computer through the Safe mode, I have to go to a friend's computer to reach you so there will be some lag in communication until I can get back up.
So, it has finally happened. I guess I'm forced to reinstall my operating system. However, in the matter of temporizing, I have found registry backups from 9/4/04 and a 8/15/05 and, now that I am thinking about it I might have other registry backups from my 7/05/05 C: drive image backup for that matter.
Thank you.
Bob
Damn, that's disappointing. It sounds like a badly written uninstallation routine. I can only assume that it probably needed to uninstall some system files, and would write commands in the registry to perform this action at the first reboot. As sometimes happens, you get a system hang at shutdown, and it doesn't perform the expected normal reboot, thereby failing to run the commands that should have been executed. If the action was to uninstall system files and restore backed-up versions, then you can end up with only the first part being done ie. an incomplete system file set.
In all, I reckon the Trend Micro update has caused more than its fair share of problems here because it didn't seem to actually back up and then replace its own core files, and there were distinct changes in its installed files between the versions that you had installed. It could also be the fact that it is one of these applications that really prefers to always be installed to the bootable system drive rather than to another drive.
Restoring a previous registry will restore settings that applied to a previous system state, but a large number of changes will have taken place since that previous state, including the probability that referenced files and folders are no longer present. That would certainly be sufficient to prevent your system from booting into anything other than Safe Mode. In that mode, it doesn't load all the virtual device drivers, and I refer here to software devices as well as hardware ones, which will include any remaining Trend Micro Settings left from the unsuccessful uninstallation.
If you have a drive image available, then it is certainly worth trying, but unfortunately it is a retrogressive means of achieving functionality, rather than the ultimate intention of going forward. If you can get the system booting to a stable state, albeit a previous one, then you should take the opportunity to download any recent driver files and other updates to one of your other partitions before doing anything else.
It might also be an idea to then install and run a utility like Everest Home Edition to identify your hardware devices, obtain the vendors' support site url's, and download the latest drivers. Computer manufacturers' sites often have the facility to scan your computer for digital ID's, identify the make and model, and then direct you to the appropriate page for the available downloads. You obviously have your original CD's still available, but it's worth gathering the most recent downloads and utilities to keep on another CD or partition.
All the latest cumulative updates will still be available from Windows Update, but I have also gathered a list of direct url's to most of the Windows Updates for Win98se which should still be available. That way you can burn them to CD.
It can be so disappointing and annoying when an apparently simple job of updating or changing an audio driver can spawn so many problems. I've been there too, and one problem just ends up spilling over into a new problem.
With a fresh install, it is often like a beath of fresh air to the computer after it has been running Windows for such a long period of time accumulating junk and redundant and/or erroneous settings and files scattered around the place. With the knowledge that you have acquired during this troublesome period, you will know a lot of potential pitfalls, eg. the "older/newer file version - do you want to keep?" prompt.
This is clearly the last thing I had hoped for at the outset, but realistically I began to fear that it would end up with this decision.
I'll be here if you have any nagging doubts about reinstalling Windows, and can provide links to instructional pages with screenshots that can be printed. There is a method of using the "MSBatch" utility (on your Win98 CD) to gather settings from your computer, revise them as necessary, configure what options you wish to have performed during a fresh installation, and output the settings to an .INF file that can be used for setup instructions.
It isn't a completely automated process, because it may stop at one or two screens, but it does make the installation a lot faster. This is especially true if you first copy the "win98" folder from the Windows 98 CD into one of your partitions, and run the setup from there. Using the MSBatch .INF file, you can configure precicely what "optional components" you want to have installed during setup, and setting up the regional configuration will be automated.
The benefit in choosing the installed components beforehand is that you can deliberately prevent it from installing any components that you will certainly be updating at the first opportunity anyway. For instance, I would not install the "Internet Tools" or Address Book. It will install Internet Explorer version 5, but not all the default Internet extras that it likes to install. Similarly, you are going to be prompted to install Macromedia Flash the first time you visit a flash-enabled web page, so you can choose not to install that as part of the setup options.
The idea is to install the bare minimum components so that subsequent updates don't have to create space-hogging backup files. You'll see the optional components by opening Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup, clicking on a group, and then clicking the "Details" button. I can offer you guidance on what to install and what not to install.
Further to this, when it comes to installing Microsoft Office (always the first main application suite I install after a fresh install of Windows), you should choose the "Custom" install which lets you choose the components to install. MS Office would install Internet Explorer if run as a standard install, but again you should not install the version that comes with MS Office 2000 because it is version 5 and would need to have its core files updated by IE6. There is an option to install the Windows Address Book from MS Office, so you could have left this option out in the Windows Setup.
There is a method similar to the MSBatch.INF semi-automated installation that can be done with MS Office 200, except that you can make it completely automated. This involves downloading the Office 2000 resource kit and using the Customization Wizard utility to create a file referred to as a "Transform". It just acts to provide the installation instructions in much the same way as the batch .INF file you could use to install Windows. If you direct it to the correct file in the root of your Office 2000 CD, it will load the settings into a step-by-step easy interface where you just tick what you want to install. Again, I will provide details if you wish.
You could install Windows 98 AND office 2000 in less than an hour using the above methods, and creating the setup instruction files in advance would probably only take you about 30 minutes at the most. That cuts out the most laborious part of starting from scratch, and it is quite easy to burn copies of "custom" Win98 and Office 2000 CD's that will run your customized/personalised setup routine.
Let me know what you think about what I have detailed above.
In all, I reckon the Trend Micro update has caused more than its fair share of problems here because it didn't seem to actually back up and then replace its own core files, and there were distinct changes in its installed files between the versions that you had installed. It could also be the fact that it is one of these applications that really prefers to always be installed to the bootable system drive rather than to another drive.
Restoring a previous registry will restore settings that applied to a previous system state, but a large number of changes will have taken place since that previous state, including the probability that referenced files and folders are no longer present. That would certainly be sufficient to prevent your system from booting into anything other than Safe Mode. In that mode, it doesn't load all the virtual device drivers, and I refer here to software devices as well as hardware ones, which will include any remaining Trend Micro Settings left from the unsuccessful uninstallation.
If you have a drive image available, then it is certainly worth trying, but unfortunately it is a retrogressive means of achieving functionality, rather than the ultimate intention of going forward. If you can get the system booting to a stable state, albeit a previous one, then you should take the opportunity to download any recent driver files and other updates to one of your other partitions before doing anything else.
It might also be an idea to then install and run a utility like Everest Home Edition to identify your hardware devices, obtain the vendors' support site url's, and download the latest drivers. Computer manufacturers' sites often have the facility to scan your computer for digital ID's, identify the make and model, and then direct you to the appropriate page for the available downloads. You obviously have your original CD's still available, but it's worth gathering the most recent downloads and utilities to keep on another CD or partition.
All the latest cumulative updates will still be available from Windows Update, but I have also gathered a list of direct url's to most of the Windows Updates for Win98se which should still be available. That way you can burn them to CD.
It can be so disappointing and annoying when an apparently simple job of updating or changing an audio driver can spawn so many problems. I've been there too, and one problem just ends up spilling over into a new problem.
With a fresh install, it is often like a beath of fresh air to the computer after it has been running Windows for such a long period of time accumulating junk and redundant and/or erroneous settings and files scattered around the place. With the knowledge that you have acquired during this troublesome period, you will know a lot of potential pitfalls, eg. the "older/newer file version - do you want to keep?" prompt.
This is clearly the last thing I had hoped for at the outset, but realistically I began to fear that it would end up with this decision.
I'll be here if you have any nagging doubts about reinstalling Windows, and can provide links to instructional pages with screenshots that can be printed. There is a method of using the "MSBatch" utility (on your Win98 CD) to gather settings from your computer, revise them as necessary, configure what options you wish to have performed during a fresh installation, and output the settings to an .INF file that can be used for setup instructions.
It isn't a completely automated process, because it may stop at one or two screens, but it does make the installation a lot faster. This is especially true if you first copy the "win98" folder from the Windows 98 CD into one of your partitions, and run the setup from there. Using the MSBatch .INF file, you can configure precicely what "optional components" you want to have installed during setup, and setting up the regional configuration will be automated.
The benefit in choosing the installed components beforehand is that you can deliberately prevent it from installing any components that you will certainly be updating at the first opportunity anyway. For instance, I would not install the "Internet Tools" or Address Book. It will install Internet Explorer version 5, but not all the default Internet extras that it likes to install. Similarly, you are going to be prompted to install Macromedia Flash the first time you visit a flash-enabled web page, so you can choose not to install that as part of the setup options.
The idea is to install the bare minimum components so that subsequent updates don't have to create space-hogging backup files. You'll see the optional components by opening Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup, clicking on a group, and then clicking the "Details" button. I can offer you guidance on what to install and what not to install.
Further to this, when it comes to installing Microsoft Office (always the first main application suite I install after a fresh install of Windows), you should choose the "Custom" install which lets you choose the components to install. MS Office would install Internet Explorer if run as a standard install, but again you should not install the version that comes with MS Office 2000 because it is version 5 and would need to have its core files updated by IE6. There is an option to install the Windows Address Book from MS Office, so you could have left this option out in the Windows Setup.
There is a method similar to the MSBatch.INF semi-automated installation that can be done with MS Office 200, except that you can make it completely automated. This involves downloading the Office 2000 resource kit and using the Customization Wizard utility to create a file referred to as a "Transform". It just acts to provide the installation instructions in much the same way as the batch .INF file you could use to install Windows. If you direct it to the correct file in the root of your Office 2000 CD, it will load the settings into a step-by-step easy interface where you just tick what you want to install. Again, I will provide details if you wish.
You could install Windows 98 AND office 2000 in less than an hour using the above methods, and creating the setup instruction files in advance would probably only take you about 30 minutes at the most. That cuts out the most laborious part of starting from scratch, and it is quite easy to burn copies of "custom" Win98 and Office 2000 CD's that will run your customized/personalised setup routine.
Let me know what you think about what I have detailed above.
ASKER
It'll take a little while to construct a response because of the communication delay but "I'll be back."
Bob
Bob
ASKER
Let me clarify some things here. It seems that since “my back is to the wall” there is no choice whether I will reinstall my operating system or not but hopefully I will now be able to restore my sound system to full functionality.
I don’t want to waste your time but I’d like to know what your answer is to to the question whether you think my operating system is destroyed now or not. The reason I ask this is due to an interesting event that occurred when I was trying to think of other possibilities for solutions to my problem:
I was thinking that it might be worth a trial to just restore my 7-05-05 C: drive image backup even though the applications that had been installed after 7-5-05 would have to be reinstalled and, for all I know, the sound system might have been intact as of that date but I don’t know what system errors might have been present then. So unless there is some other drawback would that be worth considering? I’m not arguing about whatever you believe is the best choice but just wanted to give you all the facts
However, in line with that possibility I wanted to see if the possibility was open so I was trying out the NTI Rescue CD disk with the following steps:
1) I started the computer, and reached the pause at the dual system boot notice where I opened the CD drive bay and placed the NTI Rescue disk for the C: Drive image backup and closed it.
2) Then I pressed <enter> to allow the system to continue the boot with the Rescue disk. (It should have booted to a DOS version of NTI Backup and Restore) but instead
3) It next brought up the Logon box. I logged on and next there appeared my usual Desktop – as if nothing had happened. This was a functional Desktop except the Trend Micro antiviral program was not functional.
Unfortunately, I couldn’t repeat the effect. So, apparently, the operating system wasn’t obliterated. It was just hiding out. I’m not using this to avoid the inevitable. It just surprised me. However, because we are talking about reinstalling my operating system, I don’t know what, if anything this represents and will need to clarify the following issues anyway:
It seems to me that you may be speaking of:
a) installing the operating system from scratch but I can’t be sure that you are not speaking about
b) just installing the operating system over the current operating system.
So my question are:
Question 1:
Are you now speaking about installing the operating system over the current operating system and being able to retain any of the previous settings?
or
Question 2:
Are you speaking about installing the operating system from scratch and wiping out all the previous settings?
Question 3:
Independently of what will be done to the operating system can you tell me what might now remain of my current operating system?
Question 4:
Is there any way to restore previous settings even though having installed from scratch?
Question 5:
If the Drive image C: drive backup was restored but it was a “defective image” would I be left in any worse position than I am in anyway by the current situation?
I couldn’t find anything named MSBatch Utility on the Windows 98 installation CD, the Windows98SE installation CD, or the Dell Dimension ResourceCD disk. I know nothing about using such a utility nor how to use .INF files. Am I correct that the .INF files function as a type of batch file themselves and seem to be used in circumstances such as installing sound cards, etc. but how they are used to speed up the installation of the operating system is unknown to me but I would welcome the information in using such files.
I should let you know that I had already awhile back been given instructions from Easy Desk Software for use of their software copied the Windows 98SE installation CD Win98 contents to my C:\Windows\options\cab folder.
I do have a Startup disk for Windows 98 if that would be of any use. I note that the start disk would allow access to the CD but I couldn’t make sense of the access offered – I’m sure that you probably could but it just didn’t seem to offer any access to the drives I was familiar with at the level I was familiar with – A:\>
Now, there are a whole host of questions regarding the reinstallation of the operating system and my applications.
Question 6:
Will I have to reinstall all of my applications – that is, the ones I want to keep?
Question 7:
If that is the case is the order in which installation is done of any significance whatsoever?
I have some gaps in my knowledge about the locations of my applications that were installed to my D: drive and are presumably still present on my D: drive but in a newly installed C: drive operating system are no longer recognized and so will need to be reinstalled again to my C: drive but for all the applications I have it will require that I repartition my hard drive to enlarge my C: drive, and downsize the D: drive.
Question 8:
What is the name of the process for the removal of those installed D: drive programs after the reinstallation of my operating system? Are they automatically “uninstalled” by the process of installing the “new” operating system which, I believe, if I am correct will change the registry to obliterate the recognition of those programs as installed. Very confusing to me. Please clarify. Does the Add/Remove Programs Properties box still list them?
Question 9:
I would be very sad if I lost any important data connections such as bank connections, cookies, bookmarks, passwords, user IDs, Quicken data, and others that don’t immediately come to mind which I’m sure are at your fingertips – anyway to ensure safety ahead of time other than to search this stuff out ahead of time from specific lists that track such things and save them specifically?
Question 10:
What other dangers to loss of data will there be, if any, by the process of reinstallation of my operating system?
Please excuse any repetition in questions above. I thought I would be able to weather these type of processes by back up processes but it doesn't seem like they may be available for this situation. I hope I’m wrong.
Thank you.
Bob
I don’t want to waste your time but I’d like to know what your answer is to to the question whether you think my operating system is destroyed now or not. The reason I ask this is due to an interesting event that occurred when I was trying to think of other possibilities for solutions to my problem:
I was thinking that it might be worth a trial to just restore my 7-05-05 C: drive image backup even though the applications that had been installed after 7-5-05 would have to be reinstalled and, for all I know, the sound system might have been intact as of that date but I don’t know what system errors might have been present then. So unless there is some other drawback would that be worth considering? I’m not arguing about whatever you believe is the best choice but just wanted to give you all the facts
However, in line with that possibility I wanted to see if the possibility was open so I was trying out the NTI Rescue CD disk with the following steps:
1) I started the computer, and reached the pause at the dual system boot notice where I opened the CD drive bay and placed the NTI Rescue disk for the C: Drive image backup and closed it.
2) Then I pressed <enter> to allow the system to continue the boot with the Rescue disk. (It should have booted to a DOS version of NTI Backup and Restore) but instead
3) It next brought up the Logon box. I logged on and next there appeared my usual Desktop – as if nothing had happened. This was a functional Desktop except the Trend Micro antiviral program was not functional.
Unfortunately, I couldn’t repeat the effect. So, apparently, the operating system wasn’t obliterated. It was just hiding out. I’m not using this to avoid the inevitable. It just surprised me. However, because we are talking about reinstalling my operating system, I don’t know what, if anything this represents and will need to clarify the following issues anyway:
It seems to me that you may be speaking of:
a) installing the operating system from scratch but I can’t be sure that you are not speaking about
b) just installing the operating system over the current operating system.
So my question are:
Question 1:
Are you now speaking about installing the operating system over the current operating system and being able to retain any of the previous settings?
or
Question 2:
Are you speaking about installing the operating system from scratch and wiping out all the previous settings?
Question 3:
Independently of what will be done to the operating system can you tell me what might now remain of my current operating system?
Question 4:
Is there any way to restore previous settings even though having installed from scratch?
Question 5:
If the Drive image C: drive backup was restored but it was a “defective image” would I be left in any worse position than I am in anyway by the current situation?
I couldn’t find anything named MSBatch Utility on the Windows 98 installation CD, the Windows98SE installation CD, or the Dell Dimension ResourceCD disk. I know nothing about using such a utility nor how to use .INF files. Am I correct that the .INF files function as a type of batch file themselves and seem to be used in circumstances such as installing sound cards, etc. but how they are used to speed up the installation of the operating system is unknown to me but I would welcome the information in using such files.
I should let you know that I had already awhile back been given instructions from Easy Desk Software for use of their software copied the Windows 98SE installation CD Win98 contents to my C:\Windows\options\cab folder.
I do have a Startup disk for Windows 98 if that would be of any use. I note that the start disk would allow access to the CD but I couldn’t make sense of the access offered – I’m sure that you probably could but it just didn’t seem to offer any access to the drives I was familiar with at the level I was familiar with – A:\>
Now, there are a whole host of questions regarding the reinstallation of the operating system and my applications.
Question 6:
Will I have to reinstall all of my applications – that is, the ones I want to keep?
Question 7:
If that is the case is the order in which installation is done of any significance whatsoever?
I have some gaps in my knowledge about the locations of my applications that were installed to my D: drive and are presumably still present on my D: drive but in a newly installed C: drive operating system are no longer recognized and so will need to be reinstalled again to my C: drive but for all the applications I have it will require that I repartition my hard drive to enlarge my C: drive, and downsize the D: drive.
Question 8:
What is the name of the process for the removal of those installed D: drive programs after the reinstallation of my operating system? Are they automatically “uninstalled” by the process of installing the “new” operating system which, I believe, if I am correct will change the registry to obliterate the recognition of those programs as installed. Very confusing to me. Please clarify. Does the Add/Remove Programs Properties box still list them?
Question 9:
I would be very sad if I lost any important data connections such as bank connections, cookies, bookmarks, passwords, user IDs, Quicken data, and others that don’t immediately come to mind which I’m sure are at your fingertips – anyway to ensure safety ahead of time other than to search this stuff out ahead of time from specific lists that track such things and save them specifically?
Question 10:
What other dangers to loss of data will there be, if any, by the process of reinstallation of my operating system?
Please excuse any repetition in questions above. I thought I would be able to weather these type of processes by back up processes but it doesn't seem like they may be available for this situation. I hope I’m wrong.
Thank you.
Bob
Hi Bob
It will take me a while to read through and respond fully to your questions, but to address a couple of issues straight off.
Yes, by all means try and use a backup disk image. You have nothing to lose in so doing. Your operating system hasn't been "obliterated", but there are one or more problem areas that are just preventing it from booting into Safe Mode.
It sounds as though the NTI Backup restoration process actually does its work at the reboot stage ONLY if it finds it necessary to do so. It is entirely possible that the restoration process is "incremental". In other words, it looks for differences on the drive and compares them with those on the CD, and only replaces elements that have changed. This would probably mean that it would REMOVE files added after the time of the backup, but ADD files now missing since the backup was made. In other words, a step back to a disfunctional Trend Micro Application Suite IF it wasn't fully functional at the time of the backup.
I'm not entirely sure how the NTI Rescue CD works, or should be used, but I would have thought a "rescue CD" would normally be used as a BOOT CD ie. you boot to it instead of to your hard drive or a boot floppy. You have obviously used it before.
I have really been referring to a completely fresh installation of Windows. This would involve formatting the C: Drive (ie. wiping everything from it), and reinstalling Windows and then all your current applications and programs again.
The benefits are that you have a system completely uncluttered by extraneous files and settings, and erroneous settings. It would get rid of all the bloated left-overs and problem areas that slow the system down and/or cause it to hiccup, even though the system might well get past those problem areas.
Performing a reinstallation of Windows back over itself (ie. a "Dirty Reinstall") can often work to get an unbootable system operational again, and if you were faced with the prospect of possibly having to do a completely fresh install anyway, it would always be worthwhile doing a Dirty Install to rescue files and settings before wiping the drive and starting over again. A Dirty Install sometimes doesn't work, and it won't get rid of the clutter that I spoke of.
Question 4:
>>> Is there any way to restore previous settings even though having installed from scratch? <<<
Yes, you can make a lot of different backup types by "exporting" things like your Internet Explorer Favorites, Outlook Express Account Settings, your emails, your Address Book, .INI files in Program Folders that contain personalised program settings, Your MS Word Normal.dot template, etc. These can either be "imported" again using the programs that you exported the backups from, or just transplanted to replace the new files without your backed-up settings.
The other thing that can be useful is to export some very distinct areas of the registry to .REG files that can be "merged" back into the registry of your fresh installation. You obviously have to know which settings you want to back up, and need to know where they are in the registry. It would totally defeat the purpose if you exported the entire registry to a file, and then merged it back to the new registry complete with all the old settings. In fact, this would cause more problems because it would have settings relating to programs that you wouldn't have reinstalled yet on the fresh installation, and would contain all the "clutter" I spoke of.
Question 5:
>>> If the Drive image C: drive backup was restored but it was a “defective image” would I be left in any worse position than I am in anyway by the current situation? <<<
Restoring a backed up "image" will completely replace ALL the data on the C: Drive, and a defective image would probably leave your system unbootable, thereby requiring a fresh installation from scratch unless you had a good image of your previous state, albeit problematic.
>>> "I couldn’t find anything named MSBatch Utility on the Windows98SE installation CD, or the Dell Dimension ResourceCD disk". <<<
This is a problem. You have a Dell OEM Win98 CD, and I am not entirely sure what the layout would be on it, nor what is on the "Resource CD". It obviously doesn't conform to the layout of the standard retail Win98se CD. I would have to know if it can actually be browsed as standard folders and files, and would need to know if the folder contents are all .CAB , >DAT , .BIN, or other file types.
If the CD has a "setup.exe" file in the beginning, then you would just run that after booting to a Win98se boot floppy. The CD may also be bootable, ie. as a "Restore CD", and this would normally present a Menu of options. Some will always wipe the C: Drive clean, while others may do a Dirty Install. This is something I can't guess at, and it's a pity I don't live in the US anywhere near you, or I could possibly have been able to check it out for you.
>>> "...Easy Desk Software to copy the Windows 98SE installation CD Win98 folder contents to my C:\Windows\options\cab folder". <<<
This seems to answer the above, but only in part. IF it has managed to create the following .CAB (and other) files in C:\Windows\options\CABS, then burning that folder's contents to a CD while your computer is partly functional may provide as near to a retail Win98se CD as you can get. You would still need the "setup.exe" file for it to work though. You also have the option of copying the contents of C:\Windows\options\Cabs to a new folder named eg. WIN98SE on one of your partitions.
The actual size of the CABS folder would be an initial indication of whether the contents would be complete and useable, but would not necessarily determine if the package was useable.
base4.cab to base6.cab
catalog3.cab
chl99.cab
deltemp.com
dossetup.bin
driver11.cab to driver20.cab
extract.exe
format.com
intl.txt
mini.cab
net7.cab to net10.cab
oemsetup.bin
oemsetup.exe
precopy1.cab and precopy2.cab
readme.txt
save32.com
scandisk.exe
scandisk.pif
scanprog.exe
scanreg.exe
setup.exe
setup.txt
setup0.wav
setup1.wav
setup2.wav
smartdrv.exe
suback.bin
sucatreg.exe
suhelper.bin
w98setup.bin
wb16off.exe
win98_21.cab to win98_74.cab
win98_ol.cab
xmsmmgr.exe
I will look at Question 7 onwards and get back to you.
Bill
It will take me a while to read through and respond fully to your questions, but to address a couple of issues straight off.
Yes, by all means try and use a backup disk image. You have nothing to lose in so doing. Your operating system hasn't been "obliterated", but there are one or more problem areas that are just preventing it from booting into Safe Mode.
It sounds as though the NTI Backup restoration process actually does its work at the reboot stage ONLY if it finds it necessary to do so. It is entirely possible that the restoration process is "incremental". In other words, it looks for differences on the drive and compares them with those on the CD, and only replaces elements that have changed. This would probably mean that it would REMOVE files added after the time of the backup, but ADD files now missing since the backup was made. In other words, a step back to a disfunctional Trend Micro Application Suite IF it wasn't fully functional at the time of the backup.
I'm not entirely sure how the NTI Rescue CD works, or should be used, but I would have thought a "rescue CD" would normally be used as a BOOT CD ie. you boot to it instead of to your hard drive or a boot floppy. You have obviously used it before.
I have really been referring to a completely fresh installation of Windows. This would involve formatting the C: Drive (ie. wiping everything from it), and reinstalling Windows and then all your current applications and programs again.
The benefits are that you have a system completely uncluttered by extraneous files and settings, and erroneous settings. It would get rid of all the bloated left-overs and problem areas that slow the system down and/or cause it to hiccup, even though the system might well get past those problem areas.
Performing a reinstallation of Windows back over itself (ie. a "Dirty Reinstall") can often work to get an unbootable system operational again, and if you were faced with the prospect of possibly having to do a completely fresh install anyway, it would always be worthwhile doing a Dirty Install to rescue files and settings before wiping the drive and starting over again. A Dirty Install sometimes doesn't work, and it won't get rid of the clutter that I spoke of.
Question 4:
>>> Is there any way to restore previous settings even though having installed from scratch? <<<
Yes, you can make a lot of different backup types by "exporting" things like your Internet Explorer Favorites, Outlook Express Account Settings, your emails, your Address Book, .INI files in Program Folders that contain personalised program settings, Your MS Word Normal.dot template, etc. These can either be "imported" again using the programs that you exported the backups from, or just transplanted to replace the new files without your backed-up settings.
The other thing that can be useful is to export some very distinct areas of the registry to .REG files that can be "merged" back into the registry of your fresh installation. You obviously have to know which settings you want to back up, and need to know where they are in the registry. It would totally defeat the purpose if you exported the entire registry to a file, and then merged it back to the new registry complete with all the old settings. In fact, this would cause more problems because it would have settings relating to programs that you wouldn't have reinstalled yet on the fresh installation, and would contain all the "clutter" I spoke of.
Question 5:
>>> If the Drive image C: drive backup was restored but it was a “defective image” would I be left in any worse position than I am in anyway by the current situation? <<<
Restoring a backed up "image" will completely replace ALL the data on the C: Drive, and a defective image would probably leave your system unbootable, thereby requiring a fresh installation from scratch unless you had a good image of your previous state, albeit problematic.
>>> "I couldn’t find anything named MSBatch Utility on the Windows98SE installation CD, or the Dell Dimension ResourceCD disk". <<<
This is a problem. You have a Dell OEM Win98 CD, and I am not entirely sure what the layout would be on it, nor what is on the "Resource CD". It obviously doesn't conform to the layout of the standard retail Win98se CD. I would have to know if it can actually be browsed as standard folders and files, and would need to know if the folder contents are all .CAB , >DAT , .BIN, or other file types.
If the CD has a "setup.exe" file in the beginning, then you would just run that after booting to a Win98se boot floppy. The CD may also be bootable, ie. as a "Restore CD", and this would normally present a Menu of options. Some will always wipe the C: Drive clean, while others may do a Dirty Install. This is something I can't guess at, and it's a pity I don't live in the US anywhere near you, or I could possibly have been able to check it out for you.
>>> "...Easy Desk Software to copy the Windows 98SE installation CD Win98 folder contents to my C:\Windows\options\cab folder". <<<
This seems to answer the above, but only in part. IF it has managed to create the following .CAB (and other) files in C:\Windows\options\CABS, then burning that folder's contents to a CD while your computer is partly functional may provide as near to a retail Win98se CD as you can get. You would still need the "setup.exe" file for it to work though. You also have the option of copying the contents of C:\Windows\options\Cabs to a new folder named eg. WIN98SE on one of your partitions.
The actual size of the CABS folder would be an initial indication of whether the contents would be complete and useable, but would not necessarily determine if the package was useable.
base4.cab to base6.cab
catalog3.cab
chl99.cab
deltemp.com
dossetup.bin
driver11.cab to driver20.cab
extract.exe
format.com
intl.txt
mini.cab
net7.cab to net10.cab
oemsetup.bin
oemsetup.exe
precopy1.cab and precopy2.cab
readme.txt
save32.com
scandisk.exe
scandisk.pif
scanprog.exe
scanreg.exe
setup.exe
setup.txt
setup0.wav
setup1.wav
setup2.wav
smartdrv.exe
suback.bin
sucatreg.exe
suhelper.bin
w98setup.bin
wb16off.exe
win98_21.cab to win98_74.cab
win98_ol.cab
xmsmmgr.exe
I will look at Question 7 onwards and get back to you.
Bill
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ASKER
I guess now there is a two pronged attack - a lot to digest. Bear with me.
But by the way, I did find a MSBatch.INF file on the 2 installation CDs and multiple .inf files in multiple folders, obviously, none of which I understand. If I didn't misunderstand, your comment about wanting to be able to look at them to clarify what those disks are capable of, it seems to me I might be able to be partially help by obtaining some directory and file printout utility from the Internet or actually printing out the .inf file itself and zipping the set together to send to you. Would that be helpful? Now I'm making this suggestion before reading very far into your last 2 posts or digesting the material.
But by the way, I did find a MSBatch.INF file on the 2 installation CDs and multiple .inf files in multiple folders, obviously, none of which I understand. If I didn't misunderstand, your comment about wanting to be able to look at them to clarify what those disks are capable of, it seems to me I might be able to be partially help by obtaining some directory and file printout utility from the Internet or actually printing out the .inf file itself and zipping the set together to send to you. Would that be helpful? Now I'm making this suggestion before reading very far into your last 2 posts or digesting the material.
Hi Bob
Actually, it would be very interesting and helpful to us both to see the layout of your CD. You wouldn't necessarily have to download and install a directory printing utility program. DOS is useful if you know how to use it.
Insert your Win98se CD and hold the Shift key to prevent it from autorunning.
Open a DOS window from Start Menu > Programs > MS-DOS Prompt > and type the following commands in sequence:
echo FOLDERS > %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
echo. >> %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
dir /on /ad /b /s F:\*.* >> %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
echo. >> %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
echo FILES >> %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
echo. >> %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
dir /on /b /s F:\*.* >> %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
That will create a file C:\Windows\Temp\CD_list.tx
Bill
Actually, it would be very interesting and helpful to us both to see the layout of your CD. You wouldn't necessarily have to download and install a directory printing utility program. DOS is useful if you know how to use it.
Insert your Win98se CD and hold the Shift key to prevent it from autorunning.
Open a DOS window from Start Menu > Programs > MS-DOS Prompt > and type the following commands in sequence:
echo FOLDERS > %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
echo. >> %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
dir /on /ad /b /s F:\*.* >> %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
echo. >> %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
echo FILES >> %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
echo. >> %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
dir /on /b /s F:\*.* >> %TEMP%\CD_list.txt
That will create a file C:\Windows\Temp\CD_list.tx
Bill
ASKER
I knew I was going to have a problem with an MS-DOS sequence when I saw that F:
I presumed that the F: in your command sequence was the CD drive but this confuses me in my current circumstances. Is this what DOS would assign to the CD drive? I first tried to determine if there was such a drive (in which I have actually placed the installation CD) and couldn't confirm that drive letter in my MS-DOS naivete.
At the C:\> prompt I typed in, sequentially, the set of letters, C:, D:, and E: (which, being valid) were accepted and the prompt was converted to that drive letter but when I reached above that letter such as F:, and higher, was notified that such a lettter was an 'Invalid drive specification' so I couldn't find any such valid drive specifications and couldn't find anything valid for a specification for the contents of the CD.
I'm sure there is an appropriate way around my thinking but please correct my block here.
I presumed that the F: in your command sequence was the CD drive but this confuses me in my current circumstances. Is this what DOS would assign to the CD drive? I first tried to determine if there was such a drive (in which I have actually placed the installation CD) and couldn't confirm that drive letter in my MS-DOS naivete.
At the C:\> prompt I typed in, sequentially, the set of letters, C:, D:, and E: (which, being valid) were accepted and the prompt was converted to that drive letter but when I reached above that letter such as F:, and higher, was notified that such a lettter was an 'Invalid drive specification' so I couldn't find any such valid drive specifications and couldn't find anything valid for a specification for the contents of the CD.
I'm sure there is an appropriate way around my thinking but please correct my block here.
There are a couple of possibilities here, and it all depends what DOS-mode you are in when inputting these commands. If you are using the "MS-DOS Prompt" shortcut from the Start Menu, you are really still in Windows and accessing the CD-Rom Drive should not present any errors because the drive letters are just as they are from within Windows, and you won't have had to do anything special like specifically telling it to load CD-Rom Drivers for DOS.
If you booted to a Win98 boot floppy and did not choose the option "WITH CD-Rom Support", then it won't have loaded the driver that allows DOS to access the CD-Rom Drive. If you DID choose "WITH CD-Rom Support", then it would allow access to the CD-Rom Drive from DOS, but the drive letter would be G: rather than F:
If you booted into full DOS by pressing the F8 key during boot, and chose Command Prompt from the boot menu, then you should normally be able to access the CD-Rom Drive as long as it was loading the correct driver.
I have worked on a couple of computers where, if I held down the SHIFT key to prevent a CD from autorunning when inserting it, it disabled the CD and would not allow access to it from DOS or Windows. I never really figured out why this happened, but perhaps you could try inserting the Windows CD and just allow it to autorun to the opening screen. It should NEVER just automatically install anything without you saying "Yes", and you can just close the autorun screen and try again.
Check your inbox.
If you booted to a Win98 boot floppy and did not choose the option "WITH CD-Rom Support", then it won't have loaded the driver that allows DOS to access the CD-Rom Drive. If you DID choose "WITH CD-Rom Support", then it would allow access to the CD-Rom Drive from DOS, but the drive letter would be G: rather than F:
If you booted into full DOS by pressing the F8 key during boot, and chose Command Prompt from the boot menu, then you should normally be able to access the CD-Rom Drive as long as it was loading the correct driver.
I have worked on a couple of computers where, if I held down the SHIFT key to prevent a CD from autorunning when inserting it, it disabled the CD and would not allow access to it from DOS or Windows. I never really figured out why this happened, but perhaps you could try inserting the Windows CD and just allow it to autorun to the opening screen. It should NEVER just automatically install anything without you saying "Yes", and you can just close the autorun screen and try again.
Check your inbox.
ASKER
Thanks, Bill. Got TreePrint. Need to study. Much study.
Bob
Bob
ASKER
Just let me know if you received the Win98SE installation CD directory structure printout satisfactorily.
Yes, Thanks for that Bob full listing Bob.
I haven't done a complete side-by-side comparison yet, but it certainly looks as though your Windows 98 se installation CD is absolutely standard and has ALL the resources present and available to perform a standard installation. In other words, although some of the setup files might well be "branded" so that they reflect the fact that it is a Dell OEM CD, it isn't one of those "Recovery CD's" that can only be installed by booting to the CD and doing a "repair install" or one that forces you to only install in a certain way.
You could very easily copy the entire "win98" folder from your CD into one of your partitions and run setup from there. This has the benefit of running a lot faster than from CD, and also won't prompt for the CD if you chose to add or remove installed optional components.
That's good news, and is just one other thing less to worry about. I will do a side-by-side comparison with another standard win98se CD-Rom just to verify this.
I haven't done a complete side-by-side comparison yet, but it certainly looks as though your Windows 98 se installation CD is absolutely standard and has ALL the resources present and available to perform a standard installation. In other words, although some of the setup files might well be "branded" so that they reflect the fact that it is a Dell OEM CD, it isn't one of those "Recovery CD's" that can only be installed by booting to the CD and doing a "repair install" or one that forces you to only install in a certain way.
You could very easily copy the entire "win98" folder from your CD into one of your partitions and run setup from there. This has the benefit of running a lot faster than from CD, and also won't prompt for the CD if you chose to add or remove installed optional components.
That's good news, and is just one other thing less to worry about. I will do a side-by-side comparison with another standard win98se CD-Rom just to verify this.
ASKER
Hi Bill,
Let me explain the delay on my part now:
I am concerned regarding the ability of my system that seems confined to the Safe mode with access only to C:, D: and E: drives of the hard drive and has no ability, as far as I know, to backup to the CD writer and has no Internet or email access at present. I have not tried but would probably be able to write to the A: drive for a grand total of 1.4 megabytes at a time.
So my problem at this time with your good suggestions for backing up appropriate things is that, at this time, I don't understand how with my limited system I can do this since my system doesn't seem capable of doing that. I haven't read all your material and you may well have addressed this concern so please do not repeat what you may already have written to me about since I can pick this up later. I'm just trying to explain my delay now. However, it has stimulated a thought from me that might be useful:
Could there be some use for a transfer via a USB port (unfortunately mine is 1.1) of data from my now Safe mode computer to my borrowed computer for storage or even a serial port transfer (even as slow as it might be)? I have no idea about access through Safe mode.
Bob
Let me explain the delay on my part now:
I am concerned regarding the ability of my system that seems confined to the Safe mode with access only to C:, D: and E: drives of the hard drive and has no ability, as far as I know, to backup to the CD writer and has no Internet or email access at present. I have not tried but would probably be able to write to the A: drive for a grand total of 1.4 megabytes at a time.
So my problem at this time with your good suggestions for backing up appropriate things is that, at this time, I don't understand how with my limited system I can do this since my system doesn't seem capable of doing that. I haven't read all your material and you may well have addressed this concern so please do not repeat what you may already have written to me about since I can pick this up later. I'm just trying to explain my delay now. However, it has stimulated a thought from me that might be useful:
Could there be some use for a transfer via a USB port (unfortunately mine is 1.1) of data from my now Safe mode computer to my borrowed computer for storage or even a serial port transfer (even as slow as it might be)? I have no idea about access through Safe mode.
Bob
I can see your dilemma, so let's look at the options, and the pro's and con's:
Available Resources:
------------------------
1. You have 11.7 GB of free space on your D: Drive, and 5.7 GB free on your E: Drive that can be used to back up essential documents, files, other data, and settings that are currently on your C: Drive.
2. Even though you are in Safe Mode, you will still be able to use WinZip to compress the files or folders to conserve space if that becomes an issue.
4. Internet Explorer and Outlook Express should still be functional in Safe Mode, so you should still be able to "export" data and settings from them to the other drives.
5. MS Office should still be functional in Safe Mode, so you should still be able to open the Options dialog and check where your "normal.dot" Word template is located so you can copy it to one of the other drives as a backup.
6. You should still be able to run REGEDIT from Safe Mode to export settings to .REG files on one of your other partitions.
7. I assume that Windows Explorer is still functional, in which case you can find your .DBX files (emails and OE folders), .WAB file (Address Book), any .INI settings files that you might wish to preserve, and copy them to one of the other partitions.
8. You should also be able to copy your .DUN file (Dial-Up Network file) to one of your other partitions while in Safe Mode.
Problem
---------
As you mentioned earlier, you MAY have to create new partitions so that your C: Drive is much larger to accommodate (a) the programs currently installed to your D: Drive (b) Programs that didn't provide the option and are installed to the C: Drive (c) Your "My Documents" folder, if you chose to leave it on the C: drive rather than relocating it to the D: drive (d) extra room as an overhead for future installation needs.
Unless you use a utility quoted as being non-destructive when resizing partitions, the only other option of enlarging the C: Partition is the totally data-destructive FDISK method of deleting partitions, and then creating them again. Partition Magic is quoted as being non-destructive, but there is always some element of risk involved in resizing partitions containing data.
Your Options:
----------------
Mandatory Action : Back up essential data and settings, using the instructions I detailed in my earlier comment, to your D: or E: partition as a safeguard regardless of what option you might choose to pursue.
Option 1.
Try a dirty reinstall of Windows right over itself to the C:\WINDOWS folder. Your data will be safe on the other partitions, and a Windows reinstallation will not alter it where it is. You would hope to gain access to your CD-RW Drive, and functionality of your CD Burning software that would enable you to then write the data and settings from your D: and E: partitons to CD's as a permanent backup so that you can then do whatever you wanted with the hard drive.
If Option No 1 (by some very remote chance) leaves your system unbootable, OR as an alternative to Option 1 :
Option 2.
Format the C: Drive and do a fresh installation of Windows onto it (leaving out all the optional Windows extras), then install your CD Burning Software to make permanent backups of the data from your D: and E: Drives. Formatting the drive will break all previous program associations to folders and files on the D: Drive where you formerly installed programs, so those folders just end up as plain old redundant data containing program files that will no longer function, and can be deleted. If you need access to any other programs temporarily, then install them. WinZip would be a good example of one utility that you may need to install while preparing to write your backups to CD, but this should all have really been done before formatting the C: Drive.
Option 3.
You mentioned a "borrowed" computer. If that computer has one hard drive, then you could remove the hard drive from your computer, change the jumper on the back to the "Slave" setting, and connect it to that computer where you can use its existing operating system to burn data from all partitions to CD. Setting it as the Slave Drive in another system should ensure that the computer only boots to the operating system on the Master Drive, rather than attempting to boot to Windows on YOUR hard drive. You would have to be very certain that you didn't try and RUN any programs from your drive, or it could mess with the host computer's registry. All you are using it for is as a data storage drive to get your backups to CD.
Option 4.
Transfer data to another computer or medium by cable.
An older Iomega Zip Drive connected to the Parallel Port (Printer Port) should work from Safe Mode (even from DOS with the correct driver), whereas you could well find that USB devices may not work in Safe Mode. The drawback is that data transfer is very slow and you would be limited to the capacity of 100 or 250 MB Zip Disks, however WinZip will "span" a large archive over as many removeable disks (ie. Zip Disks) as would be necessary.
There is a Windows function that can be installed named "Direct Cable Connection" that allows you to patch directly to another computer. This is very well described and illustrated here:
http://www.windowsnetworking.com/j_helmig/dccmain.htm
Your problems would be:
(a) installing DCC from your Windows installation CD (it isn't installed by default) without access to the CD from Safe Mode
(b) depending on the connection method you chose, the hardware may not be recognised from Safe Mode, and the drivers may not load to allow the interface
(c) the fact that you need a cable designed for the purpose:
http://www.windowsnetworking.com/j_helmig/dcccable.htm
Option 4:
Reinstate your most recent Drive Image and see if that at least gives you CD-Burning functionality to create backups of your data.
With the options above suggesting reinstallation of Windows, you would be booting to a Windows 98 boot floppy which allows access to the CD-Rom Drive from DOS. Once Windows was reinstalled, and able to boot properly after the first reboot, you should have access to the CD-Rom from within Windows so that you can insert any driver CD's for drivers that you haven't yet copied from or downloaded to one of your other partitions.
Personally, I would go for the suggestion of temporarily connecting your hard drive as slave to the borrowed PC, and copy the backups to that hard drive for more permanent and safe backup. Use that computer to also burn the data to CD, if such functionalty is available, as a double backup.
Having tested the data on the CD and host computer's drive for integrity, I would then put the drive back into your own computer (changing the jumper back to master), boot to a Win98se boot floppy with CD-Rom support, insert your Windows installation CD, and try a repair install (Dirty reinstall) using the command:
g:\win98\setup /m /id /ie /im /iv /IW
The extra options speed the installation up a little and they tell setup to run without playing Wav files or showing the "billboards" that tell you all about Win98, skips checks for disk space and low memory, and doesn't stop and ask you to accept the end user licence or to make a bot floppy that you obviously just booted to. Remember, your CD-Rom Drive will be G: while booted to a Win98se boot floppy, NOT F:
NOTE: IF you have a Logitech Mouse, then add /L in there, or you may not be able to use it during setup:
g:\win98\setup /m /id /ie /il /im /IV /IW
The only one that MUST be uppercase to work is the /IW switch.
I would hope that this "repair" installation won't find any new hardware, or if it does it will locate the existing drivers and verify that they are installed. I would also hope that it fixes the problem preventing it from booting to full Windows mode. Just have any other driver disks handy, and I also recommend that you disconnect peripherals like printers, scanners, usb modem, etc before reinstalling.
In the possible event that this "repair install" doesn't correct the problem and allow a full Windows boot, AND IF your only option at that time is to get Windows functional with CD-Burning capabilities to backup the data on your D: and E: Drives, then the best option is:
Boot to the Win98se boot floppy, again with CD-Rom Support, and Format the C: Drive using the command:
format c:
Once complete, run setup from your CD-Rom using the command:
g:\win98\setup /m /id /ie /im /is /iq /iv /IW /NTLDR
Remember the /IL option if you have a Logitech Mouse.
I know this sounds like a load of time-wasting, doing an installation that you will have to wipe again if you determine that you WILL need to remove the partitions and recreate them with a larger C: Drive, but this gives you a dry run-through of the progress stages and would allow you to get an idea when the hardware is going to be detected and how to browse to the folder containing the driver setup files.
Depending on what you decide to be the best option, and therefore whether you decide that you DO need to run FDISK to create different sized partitions, I will provide you with step-by-step instructions.
Bill
Available Resources:
------------------------
1. You have 11.7 GB of free space on your D: Drive, and 5.7 GB free on your E: Drive that can be used to back up essential documents, files, other data, and settings that are currently on your C: Drive.
2. Even though you are in Safe Mode, you will still be able to use WinZip to compress the files or folders to conserve space if that becomes an issue.
4. Internet Explorer and Outlook Express should still be functional in Safe Mode, so you should still be able to "export" data and settings from them to the other drives.
5. MS Office should still be functional in Safe Mode, so you should still be able to open the Options dialog and check where your "normal.dot" Word template is located so you can copy it to one of the other drives as a backup.
6. You should still be able to run REGEDIT from Safe Mode to export settings to .REG files on one of your other partitions.
7. I assume that Windows Explorer is still functional, in which case you can find your .DBX files (emails and OE folders), .WAB file (Address Book), any .INI settings files that you might wish to preserve, and copy them to one of the other partitions.
8. You should also be able to copy your .DUN file (Dial-Up Network file) to one of your other partitions while in Safe Mode.
Problem
---------
As you mentioned earlier, you MAY have to create new partitions so that your C: Drive is much larger to accommodate (a) the programs currently installed to your D: Drive (b) Programs that didn't provide the option and are installed to the C: Drive (c) Your "My Documents" folder, if you chose to leave it on the C: drive rather than relocating it to the D: drive (d) extra room as an overhead for future installation needs.
Unless you use a utility quoted as being non-destructive when resizing partitions, the only other option of enlarging the C: Partition is the totally data-destructive FDISK method of deleting partitions, and then creating them again. Partition Magic is quoted as being non-destructive, but there is always some element of risk involved in resizing partitions containing data.
Your Options:
----------------
Mandatory Action : Back up essential data and settings, using the instructions I detailed in my earlier comment, to your D: or E: partition as a safeguard regardless of what option you might choose to pursue.
Option 1.
Try a dirty reinstall of Windows right over itself to the C:\WINDOWS folder. Your data will be safe on the other partitions, and a Windows reinstallation will not alter it where it is. You would hope to gain access to your CD-RW Drive, and functionality of your CD Burning software that would enable you to then write the data and settings from your D: and E: partitons to CD's as a permanent backup so that you can then do whatever you wanted with the hard drive.
If Option No 1 (by some very remote chance) leaves your system unbootable, OR as an alternative to Option 1 :
Option 2.
Format the C: Drive and do a fresh installation of Windows onto it (leaving out all the optional Windows extras), then install your CD Burning Software to make permanent backups of the data from your D: and E: Drives. Formatting the drive will break all previous program associations to folders and files on the D: Drive where you formerly installed programs, so those folders just end up as plain old redundant data containing program files that will no longer function, and can be deleted. If you need access to any other programs temporarily, then install them. WinZip would be a good example of one utility that you may need to install while preparing to write your backups to CD, but this should all have really been done before formatting the C: Drive.
Option 3.
You mentioned a "borrowed" computer. If that computer has one hard drive, then you could remove the hard drive from your computer, change the jumper on the back to the "Slave" setting, and connect it to that computer where you can use its existing operating system to burn data from all partitions to CD. Setting it as the Slave Drive in another system should ensure that the computer only boots to the operating system on the Master Drive, rather than attempting to boot to Windows on YOUR hard drive. You would have to be very certain that you didn't try and RUN any programs from your drive, or it could mess with the host computer's registry. All you are using it for is as a data storage drive to get your backups to CD.
Option 4.
Transfer data to another computer or medium by cable.
An older Iomega Zip Drive connected to the Parallel Port (Printer Port) should work from Safe Mode (even from DOS with the correct driver), whereas you could well find that USB devices may not work in Safe Mode. The drawback is that data transfer is very slow and you would be limited to the capacity of 100 or 250 MB Zip Disks, however WinZip will "span" a large archive over as many removeable disks (ie. Zip Disks) as would be necessary.
There is a Windows function that can be installed named "Direct Cable Connection" that allows you to patch directly to another computer. This is very well described and illustrated here:
http://www.windowsnetworking.com/j_helmig/dccmain.htm
Your problems would be:
(a) installing DCC from your Windows installation CD (it isn't installed by default) without access to the CD from Safe Mode
(b) depending on the connection method you chose, the hardware may not be recognised from Safe Mode, and the drivers may not load to allow the interface
(c) the fact that you need a cable designed for the purpose:
http://www.windowsnetworking.com/j_helmig/dcccable.htm
Option 4:
Reinstate your most recent Drive Image and see if that at least gives you CD-Burning functionality to create backups of your data.
With the options above suggesting reinstallation of Windows, you would be booting to a Windows 98 boot floppy which allows access to the CD-Rom Drive from DOS. Once Windows was reinstalled, and able to boot properly after the first reboot, you should have access to the CD-Rom from within Windows so that you can insert any driver CD's for drivers that you haven't yet copied from or downloaded to one of your other partitions.
Personally, I would go for the suggestion of temporarily connecting your hard drive as slave to the borrowed PC, and copy the backups to that hard drive for more permanent and safe backup. Use that computer to also burn the data to CD, if such functionalty is available, as a double backup.
Having tested the data on the CD and host computer's drive for integrity, I would then put the drive back into your own computer (changing the jumper back to master), boot to a Win98se boot floppy with CD-Rom support, insert your Windows installation CD, and try a repair install (Dirty reinstall) using the command:
g:\win98\setup /m /id /ie /im /iv /IW
The extra options speed the installation up a little and they tell setup to run without playing Wav files or showing the "billboards" that tell you all about Win98, skips checks for disk space and low memory, and doesn't stop and ask you to accept the end user licence or to make a bot floppy that you obviously just booted to. Remember, your CD-Rom Drive will be G: while booted to a Win98se boot floppy, NOT F:
NOTE: IF you have a Logitech Mouse, then add /L in there, or you may not be able to use it during setup:
g:\win98\setup /m /id /ie /il /im /IV /IW
The only one that MUST be uppercase to work is the /IW switch.
I would hope that this "repair" installation won't find any new hardware, or if it does it will locate the existing drivers and verify that they are installed. I would also hope that it fixes the problem preventing it from booting to full Windows mode. Just have any other driver disks handy, and I also recommend that you disconnect peripherals like printers, scanners, usb modem, etc before reinstalling.
In the possible event that this "repair install" doesn't correct the problem and allow a full Windows boot, AND IF your only option at that time is to get Windows functional with CD-Burning capabilities to backup the data on your D: and E: Drives, then the best option is:
Boot to the Win98se boot floppy, again with CD-Rom Support, and Format the C: Drive using the command:
format c:
Once complete, run setup from your CD-Rom using the command:
g:\win98\setup /m /id /ie /im /is /iq /iv /IW /NTLDR
Remember the /IL option if you have a Logitech Mouse.
I know this sounds like a load of time-wasting, doing an installation that you will have to wipe again if you determine that you WILL need to remove the partitions and recreate them with a larger C: Drive, but this gives you a dry run-through of the progress stages and would allow you to get an idea when the hardware is going to be detected and how to browse to the folder containing the driver setup files.
Depending on what you decide to be the best option, and therefore whether you decide that you DO need to run FDISK to create different sized partitions, I will provide you with step-by-step instructions.
Bill
ASKER
Let me give you some information about the installation CD. I don't know whether it is useful to you or not.
I don't know whether this helps identify just what kind of a disk it actually may be. I received my Dell computer in June, 1999 and they said they would send me the Windows 98 Second Edition update later which they sent within a month or two. On its label it stated "For users of Windows 98." Under the Microsoft logo it stated "For distribution with a new PC only. For product support, contact the manufacturer of your PC." And along the bottom it said "Includes system updates, Internet Explorer 5, Internet Connection Sharing, and more."
One thing keeps popping up in your discussions and that is use of the word "Format." Wouldn't it be possible for me to just format the C: drive and install the operating system on it for a "clean" install and still be able to retain my backups on the D: and E: drives with no harm to the operating system? I hope I'm not asking something you've already answered but I admit haven't yet read all of it.
Bob
I don't know whether this helps identify just what kind of a disk it actually may be. I received my Dell computer in June, 1999 and they said they would send me the Windows 98 Second Edition update later which they sent within a month or two. On its label it stated "For users of Windows 98." Under the Microsoft logo it stated "For distribution with a new PC only. For product support, contact the manufacturer of your PC." And along the bottom it said "Includes system updates, Internet Explorer 5, Internet Connection Sharing, and more."
One thing keeps popping up in your discussions and that is use of the word "Format." Wouldn't it be possible for me to just format the C: drive and install the operating system on it for a "clean" install and still be able to retain my backups on the D: and E: drives with no harm to the operating system? I hope I'm not asking something you've already answered but I admit haven't yet read all of it.
Bob
ASKER
I think I missed the material where you listed the optiions just above my last post so that may actually answer my question above. Sorry, I'm stepping on your answers. However, I did see the words master and slave and that worries me - but you know me.
I haven't completely looked over the Outlook Express backup process you've recommended yet (but it looks complicated) but I'd like to acquaint you with a program called Express Assist if you are unfamiliar with it. I'll probably use your backup process anyway just to be safe but the program is capable of backing up everything from Outlook Express and restoring it. That allows me to open a new installation of Outlook Express that I have not connected to the Internet so that I have not downloaded any messages and restore a previous backup to it and then restore identities and passwords. That "sounds" much simpler to me unless you know something I don't that would negate my possibility.
If it is annoying to you that I don't gather all these items into one post, please say so and Ill hold my responses to the one.
Bob
I haven't completely looked over the Outlook Express backup process you've recommended yet (but it looks complicated) but I'd like to acquaint you with a program called Express Assist if you are unfamiliar with it. I'll probably use your backup process anyway just to be safe but the program is capable of backing up everything from Outlook Express and restoring it. That allows me to open a new installation of Outlook Express that I have not connected to the Internet so that I have not downloaded any messages and restore a previous backup to it and then restore identities and passwords. That "sounds" much simpler to me unless you know something I don't that would negate my possibility.
If it is annoying to you that I don't gather all these items into one post, please say so and Ill hold my responses to the one.
Bob
ASKER
Bill, I'll soon send my post and I can get this finally done.
Bob
Bob
No problem, Bob. I'm just gathering some url's to Windows Updates you have installed in case you choose to install them while offline instead of through Windows Update after reinstalling.
ASKER
OK, Bill, I hope we’re getting close to finishing these problems. I also hope all this isn’t too garbled to make sense.
Please let me know about any incorrect statements I make in the following.
After reviewing the 5 options as you describe them, basically they are:
OPTION 1. Reinstall Windows 98 SE on top of my currently installed Windows 98 SE – a ‘dirty’ installation.
Question 1:
Do the facts that
a) I received that message “Error loading Explorer.exe You must reinstall Windows” and
b) am now only able to use it in Safe mode indicate that the operating system is damaged and would therefore
prevent Option 1 from being the best option?
OPTION 2. Reformat only the C: drive and do a fresh installation of Windows 98 SE, then install the CDWriter (I added this to your statement) and CD burning software to make permanent backups of the current D: and E: drives.
I believe the following pieces of information will be useful in assessment:
I have a CD-DVD player with no burning capacity that originally came with the Dell computer that I purchased in June, 1999 and this began to make low intensity grinding & rattling noises about 9 months ago and its tray would not open or close consistently but I never received any error messages from it so I just stopped using it. Additional comments are made in regard to this drive when discussing the Startup Windows boot disk CD setup in DOS – see below.
Question 2:
Will this older CD-DVD player cause any problems during the Windows 98 SE installation or subsequent TDK CDWriter installation (see below)?
The thought just now crosses my mind that I had thought I read somewhere that there was a wire connection between this CD-DVD player and elsewhere in the computer.
Question 3:
Could this connection, if it exists, cause any difficulty in either the Windows 98 SE installation or could it have any connection to my audio problems?
I had earlier had installed a CDWriter [TDK veloCD 241040B (veloCD ReWriter) or (CDRW241040B if that name means more)] and it functioned without any problems as far as I knew.
Question 4:
Will the CDWriter (TDK veloCD) to which the system had previously assigned a drive letter H: need any other precautions on installation during its reincarnation?
Another thing that comes to mind is that, in regard to my sound system problems, you had mentioned, I believe, the TDK Digital MixMaster as possibly having some effect on my audio problems. As I recall, this program was installed when the CDWriter (TDK veloCD) was installed and handled things like playlists, etc.
Question 5:
I will say that the TDK Digital MixMaster had been installed along with the CDWriter (TDK veloCD) and, as far as I knew had been present for many months with none of those audio problems that I described. On the installation of the CDWriter (TDKveloCD) should I avoid installing the TDK Digital MixMaster?
Your statements indicate the importance of requiring access to a CDWriter but:
Question 6:
Wouldn’t it be just as feasible to install, along with a CDWriter, my External 160 GB Western Digital hard drive and, instead of, or, along with, CD backup, make external hard drive backups? The only drawback, in my case, would be the fact that, at present, I only have 1.1 USB ports. But I’ve done some backups at that speed and it only takes about 2+ hours for a drive which certainly seems feasible to me even if it isn’t the 40x greater speed of 2.0. Not only that but I couldn’t rave about the blinding speed of any of my CD backups.
Question 7
Are the “extras” options to which you refer in the Windows 98 SE installation setup also available for later installation, if desired, in the Add/Remove Programs Properties box under the Windows Setup tab?
As you have mentioned I could reformat the drives to enlarge my C: drive and decrease the size of my D: drive but from what I understand it would take considerable time for the formatting process so if I could make adequate backups for safety, I would prefer to use a utility such as Partition Commander to resize the partitions which should be able to be done non-destructively and much more quickly. I have used this utility previously after making backups to ensure I would not lose any data and it worked satisfactorily without my losing any data.
Question 8:
Since you have convinced me that all my programs should be reinstalled on the C: drive, don’t you think that this is a more advantageous solution than reformatting?
Question 9:
As another consideration, I have heard that an efficient swap disk arrangement is to set the swap disk to its own drive and if I won't be placing programs on the D: drive would a good use for a separate D: drive be a dedicated swap drive?
I originally wrote the following information stating that it seemed that each of the Options 1,2, and 5, if I was correct, required the use of the Startup Windows 98 boot disk but I had only seen a Help screen on attempting to boot with it but I later retried it and found the access to the required access to the CD drives.
I now see that it has delivered the following information which I repeat here for my informational purposes and because I mentioned that I had an original malfunctional CD-DVD drive that came with the Dell computer in a functional state (see above paragraph about that problem). It displays as described below in its DOS display.
After booting up with the Startup disk in the A: drive with several informational statements that I did not record, it finally said:
“The diagnostic tools were successfully loaded to drive F:” by that Startup boot disk.
It then stated:
Drive G: = Driver MSCD001 Unit 0
Drive H: = Driver MSCD001 Unit 1
Now I don’t know how malfunctional G: actually is since the following commands work as follows:
A:\>G:
G:\>
I didn’t actually have the nerve to place any CD’s in that drive since I had been having difficulty opening and shutting that drive door before so all I did was place a dir command thus:
G:\>dir and the following messages occurred:
CDR101: Not ready reading drive G:
Abort, Retry, Fail?
At the Fail? I placed an ‘a’ and it returned to:
G:\>
At that G:\> I typed H: as G:\>H: and got:
H:\> and typing dir there, since I had placed the Windows 98 SE installation CD, I got a directory display.
I also switched to the F: drive and got a listing of DOS commands such as Extract, Format.com, Scandisk.exe, Scandisk.ini, sys.com, etc.
This brings up the question whether FDISK is a part of the FORMAT.COM command?
OPTION 3: This option was a little confusing because I wasn’t completely sure to which computer’s hard drive you were referring but if I understand, it is thus:
Remove the hard drive from my sick computer and change its jumper setting to the Slave setting and connect it to the borrowed computer where it can use the existing functional operating system of the borrowed computer to burn backup CDs from the hard drive that I moved from my sick computer.
Question 10:
Isn’t it correct that Option 3 is completely useless to me because the borrowed computer has no CD writing capability, not to mention that the option is a certainly much more cumbersome process and I would have to reinstall Windows anyway?
OPTION 4: Transfer data from my sick computer to the borrowed computer via cable with possibilities for use of the Zip drives, apparently with parallel port special connection and the USB connection not being available to me in Safe mode, and the DCC method having several drawbacks along with requiring a special cable.
Question 11:
Is this option eliminated for a combinaion of reasons including slow transfer speeds and complicated setups making this difficult to accomplish or not effective in Safe mode?
OPTION 5 (this, I believe, was your second Option 4): Restoration of my drive image backup of the C: drive dated 7-7-005.
Question 12: (please any confusion in this Question 12 discussion)
Are the disadvantages of Option 5:
a) The restoration of a drive image backup CD in which I have some reason to doubt that the drive image itself is error free?
b) This previous drive image backup may restore things that were best left unrestored?
c) Since I think there’s always going to be some deviation from perfection (which I’m sure you’ve always known) I just ought to get on with it and try to rectify the problems as they arise after the installation rather then try to anticipate them to avoid them. I’ve told you neverending stories regarding and I’ve now just found another one:
See if this sounds familiar in relation to the Trend Micro saga. I had told you that the
7-7-05 drive image backup that I had was made from NTI DriveImageBackup V3.5 and it was from this program that I had retrieved the copy of that msvcrt.dll that successfully restored that sound card reinstallation (but didn’t restore the audio). In any event I wanted to identify the program for you. I had tried to uninstall that program earlier without success since their icons remained on the Desktop and they still seemed to be functioning, and
I had tried to install NTI DriveImageBackup V4 and all of this was under the direction of their techsupport. In the middle of that V4 installation the installation bombed out although the icon appeared on the Desktop. However, when clicking on that icon it informed me that it could not open the program because 2 files were missing (naturally, it had bombed out in the middle of its installation.)
So, this brings me up to the present because I just wanted to see how that Rescue CD for the Drive Image backup of 7-7-05 would work. I placed it in the sick computer CD drive and as the computer booted it read the CD and opened, I believe, a DOS version of the DriveImage Backup and Restoration NTI program. When it had finished opening, I was curious as to what version was showing, thinking that it should have been 3.5 since that was the version under which the backup had been made but, guess what? It was 4.01. Since this must be an incompletely installed version, I presume. I don’t have any idea how valid a restoration of that 7-7-05 drive image it could produce. Any comments?
Are the advantages of Option 5 (it may seem like I'm contradicting myself from above):
a) this option, if it would work, would not require reformatting to restore the operating system?
b) it might be able to automatically restore all or some card capabilities, including the missing audio problem
c) it might be accomplished via a recovery CD that works from DOS (as far as I know)?
Question 13:
Is another potential advantage of this process that have restored this option and determined what is functional, does it offer any better substrate for a “dirty” reinstallation of Windows 98 SE to work on?
Question 14: (I believe I have already asked this question before but include it here for completeness)
Could the restoration from a defective drive image preventing the actual restoration of that image, prevent proceeding to Option 1 or 2, if Option 5 was not effective?
Please let me know about any incorrect statements I make in the following.
After reviewing the 5 options as you describe them, basically they are:
OPTION 1. Reinstall Windows 98 SE on top of my currently installed Windows 98 SE – a ‘dirty’ installation.
Question 1:
Do the facts that
a) I received that message “Error loading Explorer.exe You must reinstall Windows” and
b) am now only able to use it in Safe mode indicate that the operating system is damaged and would therefore
prevent Option 1 from being the best option?
OPTION 2. Reformat only the C: drive and do a fresh installation of Windows 98 SE, then install the CDWriter (I added this to your statement) and CD burning software to make permanent backups of the current D: and E: drives.
I believe the following pieces of information will be useful in assessment:
I have a CD-DVD player with no burning capacity that originally came with the Dell computer that I purchased in June, 1999 and this began to make low intensity grinding & rattling noises about 9 months ago and its tray would not open or close consistently but I never received any error messages from it so I just stopped using it. Additional comments are made in regard to this drive when discussing the Startup Windows boot disk CD setup in DOS – see below.
Question 2:
Will this older CD-DVD player cause any problems during the Windows 98 SE installation or subsequent TDK CDWriter installation (see below)?
The thought just now crosses my mind that I had thought I read somewhere that there was a wire connection between this CD-DVD player and elsewhere in the computer.
Question 3:
Could this connection, if it exists, cause any difficulty in either the Windows 98 SE installation or could it have any connection to my audio problems?
I had earlier had installed a CDWriter [TDK veloCD 241040B (veloCD ReWriter) or (CDRW241040B if that name means more)] and it functioned without any problems as far as I knew.
Question 4:
Will the CDWriter (TDK veloCD) to which the system had previously assigned a drive letter H: need any other precautions on installation during its reincarnation?
Another thing that comes to mind is that, in regard to my sound system problems, you had mentioned, I believe, the TDK Digital MixMaster as possibly having some effect on my audio problems. As I recall, this program was installed when the CDWriter (TDK veloCD) was installed and handled things like playlists, etc.
Question 5:
I will say that the TDK Digital MixMaster had been installed along with the CDWriter (TDK veloCD) and, as far as I knew had been present for many months with none of those audio problems that I described. On the installation of the CDWriter (TDKveloCD) should I avoid installing the TDK Digital MixMaster?
Your statements indicate the importance of requiring access to a CDWriter but:
Question 6:
Wouldn’t it be just as feasible to install, along with a CDWriter, my External 160 GB Western Digital hard drive and, instead of, or, along with, CD backup, make external hard drive backups? The only drawback, in my case, would be the fact that, at present, I only have 1.1 USB ports. But I’ve done some backups at that speed and it only takes about 2+ hours for a drive which certainly seems feasible to me even if it isn’t the 40x greater speed of 2.0. Not only that but I couldn’t rave about the blinding speed of any of my CD backups.
Question 7
Are the “extras” options to which you refer in the Windows 98 SE installation setup also available for later installation, if desired, in the Add/Remove Programs Properties box under the Windows Setup tab?
As you have mentioned I could reformat the drives to enlarge my C: drive and decrease the size of my D: drive but from what I understand it would take considerable time for the formatting process so if I could make adequate backups for safety, I would prefer to use a utility such as Partition Commander to resize the partitions which should be able to be done non-destructively and much more quickly. I have used this utility previously after making backups to ensure I would not lose any data and it worked satisfactorily without my losing any data.
Question 8:
Since you have convinced me that all my programs should be reinstalled on the C: drive, don’t you think that this is a more advantageous solution than reformatting?
Question 9:
As another consideration, I have heard that an efficient swap disk arrangement is to set the swap disk to its own drive and if I won't be placing programs on the D: drive would a good use for a separate D: drive be a dedicated swap drive?
I originally wrote the following information stating that it seemed that each of the Options 1,2, and 5, if I was correct, required the use of the Startup Windows 98 boot disk but I had only seen a Help screen on attempting to boot with it but I later retried it and found the access to the required access to the CD drives.
I now see that it has delivered the following information which I repeat here for my informational purposes and because I mentioned that I had an original malfunctional CD-DVD drive that came with the Dell computer in a functional state (see above paragraph about that problem). It displays as described below in its DOS display.
After booting up with the Startup disk in the A: drive with several informational statements that I did not record, it finally said:
“The diagnostic tools were successfully loaded to drive F:” by that Startup boot disk.
It then stated:
Drive G: = Driver MSCD001 Unit 0
Drive H: = Driver MSCD001 Unit 1
Now I don’t know how malfunctional G: actually is since the following commands work as follows:
A:\>G:
G:\>
I didn’t actually have the nerve to place any CD’s in that drive since I had been having difficulty opening and shutting that drive door before so all I did was place a dir command thus:
G:\>dir and the following messages occurred:
CDR101: Not ready reading drive G:
Abort, Retry, Fail?
At the Fail? I placed an ‘a’ and it returned to:
G:\>
At that G:\> I typed H: as G:\>H: and got:
H:\> and typing dir there, since I had placed the Windows 98 SE installation CD, I got a directory display.
I also switched to the F: drive and got a listing of DOS commands such as Extract, Format.com, Scandisk.exe, Scandisk.ini, sys.com, etc.
This brings up the question whether FDISK is a part of the FORMAT.COM command?
OPTION 3: This option was a little confusing because I wasn’t completely sure to which computer’s hard drive you were referring but if I understand, it is thus:
Remove the hard drive from my sick computer and change its jumper setting to the Slave setting and connect it to the borrowed computer where it can use the existing functional operating system of the borrowed computer to burn backup CDs from the hard drive that I moved from my sick computer.
Question 10:
Isn’t it correct that Option 3 is completely useless to me because the borrowed computer has no CD writing capability, not to mention that the option is a certainly much more cumbersome process and I would have to reinstall Windows anyway?
OPTION 4: Transfer data from my sick computer to the borrowed computer via cable with possibilities for use of the Zip drives, apparently with parallel port special connection and the USB connection not being available to me in Safe mode, and the DCC method having several drawbacks along with requiring a special cable.
Question 11:
Is this option eliminated for a combinaion of reasons including slow transfer speeds and complicated setups making this difficult to accomplish or not effective in Safe mode?
OPTION 5 (this, I believe, was your second Option 4): Restoration of my drive image backup of the C: drive dated 7-7-005.
Question 12: (please any confusion in this Question 12 discussion)
Are the disadvantages of Option 5:
a) The restoration of a drive image backup CD in which I have some reason to doubt that the drive image itself is error free?
b) This previous drive image backup may restore things that were best left unrestored?
c) Since I think there’s always going to be some deviation from perfection (which I’m sure you’ve always known) I just ought to get on with it and try to rectify the problems as they arise after the installation rather then try to anticipate them to avoid them. I’ve told you neverending stories regarding and I’ve now just found another one:
See if this sounds familiar in relation to the Trend Micro saga. I had told you that the
7-7-05 drive image backup that I had was made from NTI DriveImageBackup V3.5 and it was from this program that I had retrieved the copy of that msvcrt.dll that successfully restored that sound card reinstallation (but didn’t restore the audio). In any event I wanted to identify the program for you. I had tried to uninstall that program earlier without success since their icons remained on the Desktop and they still seemed to be functioning, and
I had tried to install NTI DriveImageBackup V4 and all of this was under the direction of their techsupport. In the middle of that V4 installation the installation bombed out although the icon appeared on the Desktop. However, when clicking on that icon it informed me that it could not open the program because 2 files were missing (naturally, it had bombed out in the middle of its installation.)
So, this brings me up to the present because I just wanted to see how that Rescue CD for the Drive Image backup of 7-7-05 would work. I placed it in the sick computer CD drive and as the computer booted it read the CD and opened, I believe, a DOS version of the DriveImage Backup and Restoration NTI program. When it had finished opening, I was curious as to what version was showing, thinking that it should have been 3.5 since that was the version under which the backup had been made but, guess what? It was 4.01. Since this must be an incompletely installed version, I presume. I don’t have any idea how valid a restoration of that 7-7-05 drive image it could produce. Any comments?
Are the advantages of Option 5 (it may seem like I'm contradicting myself from above):
a) this option, if it would work, would not require reformatting to restore the operating system?
b) it might be able to automatically restore all or some card capabilities, including the missing audio problem
c) it might be accomplished via a recovery CD that works from DOS (as far as I know)?
Question 13:
Is another potential advantage of this process that have restored this option and determined what is functional, does it offer any better substrate for a “dirty” reinstallation of Windows 98 SE to work on?
Question 14: (I believe I have already asked this question before but include it here for completeness)
Could the restoration from a defective drive image preventing the actual restoration of that image, prevent proceeding to Option 1 or 2, if Option 5 was not effective?
Hi Bob
>>> Question 1. <<<
Re Option No. 1: Dirty Reinstall.
The message "Error loading Explorer.exe" is probably indicative of the fact that you have a version conflict between files (usually DLL files) that are required to load full windows (ie. the Windows "shell"), or that you have incorrect settings or even a missing file. Only IF the affected system file(s) is/are "shared" by any other installed programs would the problem affect that/those programs. I get the impression that you are envisaging your system to comprise only a small portion of the content that should be there. I have a feeling that you still have a complete Windows installation - minus a couple of crucial files - that's all.
Through a dirty reinstall you would be seeking to reinstate compatible file versions (albeit the older original ones) and to restore missing files or bad settings to try and get your system to boot into Windows. Reinstallation Windows over any existing (or previous version of) Windows will always read the existing registry and other configuration files, and will make only changes necessary to reinstall Windows. The vast majority (if not all) of the installed NON-Microsoft programs will usually be left as they were.
Say, for instance, you restored your C: Drive to a previous state from a backup image made with your NTI Drive Imaging application. This will restore the PREVIOUS REGISTRY as well as the files that were present on the drive at the time of the backup. Doing a dirty reinstall of Windows over this will will be no different than if you had done so over the previous disfunctional Windows installation. It reads the registry and configuration files, tries to restore missing files and important default Windows settings, and tends to leave non-microsoft programs unaffected.
The objective here isn't a long-term fix, it's a temporary one to allow you to back up files only, and then take care of the partition size issue. I presume you wish to back up your Address Book, Favorites, etc, if you haven't done so already. At a push, you could do this from DOS, but it's a whole lot easier doing so from within Windows, so restoring a previous drive image to allow you to at least get into Windows would be a reasonable option to consider.
It all depends on whether you still have any data on the C: Drive that you want to try and preserve until you can back it up, eg. Address Book, Favorites, etc. IF the Dirty Reinstall doesn't allow Windows to boot fully, or if you don't have anything on the C: Drive that you want to back up, then Option No. 2 (Format and Reinstall) would create a stable NEW Windows 98 installation from which backups could be made of your OTHER PARTITIONS, but I would still consider that installation a temporary measure, because the best option probably IS to change the sizes of your partitions, and the normal repartitioning process destroys all data.
You stated:
>>>
"I could reformat the drives to enlarge my C: drive and decrease the size of my D: drive".
<<<
There are two crucial references that you have to understand here. FDISK and FORMAT.
1. FDISK.EXE - Used to create and delete Partitions.
A brand new hard drive comes WITHOUT any partitions on it. They don't know how it will be used so this is left up to the user to split up.
Running FDISK shows a Menu of options and further sub-menu's from which you choose what you want to achieve. A Hard Drive is a magnetic medium that has a physical structure on it which allows it to hold data. This physical structure is called the "File System" and is created by formatting the drive. You can only Format a drive once it has been partitioned into one of more valid partitions.
2. FORMAT.COM is called using the command:
FORMAT Drive_Letter:
eg.
FORMAT C:
This effectively wipes out all data on the named hard drive (or partition of a hard drive). If you Format your C: Drive then you are wiping out your operating system (Windows 98). On a bare drive that contains one or more valid partitions, the Format command creates the structure that allows data storage, ie. the "Filing System" (FAT32 for Windows 98). On a drive that has already been partitioned and formatted, reformatting it just frees up all the areas on it so that new data can be written onto it. A FAT32 drive has an Index at the start of it called the File Allocation Table (FAT). This stores the exact locations of all files stored on the drive. Formatting the drive rewrites and voids this Index so that the drive appears to have nothing on it. Formatting a drive has no effect on the partitions, or on any of the data stored on partitions other than the drive letter given at the Format command.
You mention that you have successfully used "Partition Commander" to resize partitions without destroying any data on them. That would be the best option to use, and thus ensure the integrity of data on the other partitions other than C:
>>> Question 2. <<<
Making backups of the essential data
In my view, your DVD-Rom Drive cannot be trusted, given that it "began to make low intensity grinding & rattling noises" and the tray doesn't open and close properly. This MIGHT cause problems if using it to reinstall Windows from, or even if you chose to use it to copy the Windows 98 CD Contents to one of your partitions for a hard drive to hard drive installation. You would no doubt receive notification of any failed file copying, and could restart the file copying, but this could be disastrous if you were trying a Dirty Reinstall to repair Windows. In that event, you would certainly be formatting the C: Drive and reinstalling Windows from scratch earlier than you may have planned.
My advice is to buy a new DVD-Rom Drive NOW and replace the problem one. They are pretty cheap and modern ones are very fast. DVD-Rom drives are just the same as CD-Rom and CD-RW Drives in that they are automatically recognised by Windows and immediately available for use without having to install any extra drivers. They usually come with a CD containing something like a DVD Playback Application (eg. PowerDVD) and also a DOS DRIVER. In the event that the CD-Rom drivers on a standard Win98se Boot Floppy didn't work with the new DVD-Rom Drive, then it is easy enough to replace them with the one supplied on the CD to provide access from DOS.
The only time you ever usually have to install anything for full functionality of a CD-Rom, DVD-Rom, or CD-RW Drive is where you have a drive that is newer than the release date of CD-Burning software. In that event, the software may not know what functions are supported, or may not identify the device, and you then have to download and install a "Drive Update" from the software vendor's support site. This only usually affects the CD-RW Drive, and not the CD/DVD-Rom Drives, and isn't something that you should worry about anyway.
A CD Writer Drive such as your TDK 241040B CD-RW Drive can be used in much the same way as a CD-Rom or DVD-Rom Drive for installing Windows from the CD, or for transferring files and folders. Ideally you shouldn't really use a CD Writer drive for normal CD-Rom use all the time because the mechanisms aren't quite as robust as a CD-Rom/DVD-Rom Drive, but it's not going to harm the drive by using it to install Windows from.
This brings me to the "thought that just crossed your mind" about the presence of "a wire connection between this CD-DVD player and elsewhere in the computer". CD-Rom and DVD-Rom drives have a small flat 3 wire socket on the back that accommodates an audio output lead. On motherboards with an integrated sound chip, the other end of this wire plugs into a motherboard socket. On boards without an integrated sound chip, the other end of the wire plugs into a socket right on the sound card. Some sound cards have two sockets, where you could also have a wire from your CD-RW Drive, but most often there is only one socket. The logical choice is to connect your "playback" drive to this ie. your DVD-Rom Drive. The CD-RW Drive shouldn't be used for the playback of Audio CD's, etc, so this doesn't matter.
This audio cable is only present to carry audio signals from your CD-Rom/DVD-Rom drive to the soundcard. In your case, this enables you to playback audio CD's. If it was missing, you could still plug headphones right into the front socket of the drive itself and hear the audio playback. The slider on your Windows Volume Control for "CD Player" just balances the input from that device against others in the same way that you could plug a microphone or auxilliary device into the correct socket of your sound card and balance that level against the others.
Playing an Audio CD in your DVD-Rom drive is similar in a way to playing a Vinyl Record on an old Hi-Fi. It reads "tracks", sends the signals to an amplifier, and then sends those altered signals out to speakers. Your Sound Card is, in a very basic sense, the amplifier. A record has a groove that wobbles a needle, and this is translated into pulses by the magnetic needle cartridge, whereas a CD has pits and troughs that are differentiated by their depth and read by a laser that works on the reflectivity from the layers of a CD, but they both create pulses. A record player merely amplifies these signals, whereas a Sound Card on a computer processes them to work on a computer.
I can plug my electric guitar into my sound card and play it straight through my speakers in the same way that I can hear myself through the speakers if I plug in a microphone. These will both work regardless of whether there is an audio cable connected from my DVD-Rom Drive to my soundcard. The same is true if I play back saved multimedia files like .mpg/.avi movies or .wav files, or if I used a video conferencing application along with a webcam and microphone.
IF, however, I had somehow managed to plug the other end of my DVD-Rom to Sound Card audio lead into the WRONG socket on my sound card or motherboard, then this COULD certainly cause some problems. This would be pretty difficult, because connectors are deliberately made to be different sizes and shapes depending on their uses.
Take a look at this image of your sound card:
http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/kb_ftp/5761004.asp
There are 3 sockets (black, green, and white) that are mounted at the top of the board following the diagonal slope. The Black one is your "CD In" connector. The Green one is to connect a Voice Modem. The White one is an "Auxilliary In" connector, and may double as an additional connector from your CD-RW Drive if you chose. If you are worried about this, open the case and verify thet the cable is connected from your DVD-Rom Drive to the Black socket on the sound card.
>>> Question 5: <<<
Regarding the "TDK Digital MixMaster" which you recall as having been installed when the TDK CD-RW Drive was "installed". This is ADDITIONAL software, and is certainly NOT essential to the actual functionality of the CD-RW Drive. When you buy a CD-RW drive, you always receive a CD containing a bundled (cut-down or "Lite") version of a CD Burning application like Easy CD Creator, Nero Express, or perhaps a lesser known name. You DON'T HAVE to install that application if you already have a fuller or preferred CD Burning application. In addition to this, the CD may also have other demo or full utility programs like "TDK Digital Mixmaster".
>>> "Should I avoid installing the TDK Digital MixMaster?" <<<
Have you ever used it?
It is actually based heavily on Nero's "Media Player", and can be used to extract tracks from Audio CD's to separate files, balance loudness across several tracks, convert vinyl or cassette input and burn to CD, etc. It looks to be very versatile, although complicated in layout, but essentially just provides an "all in one place" interface to what Nero already provides as separate functions.
You can install this any time you want, but I suggest leaving it until AFTER you know that your Soundcard is working properly.
>>> Question 6. <<<
Using the External 160 GB Western Digital hard drive to make hard drive backups.
By all means use it to copy folders and files to, but DON'T use it to create a drive image to where the method of restoring that image relies on doing so from DOS Mode. DOS does not support USB. Something like NTI DriveImage MIGHT load its own operating system environment that can restore from USB devices, but that's something you will have to ascertain.
>>> Question 7 <<<
Windows 98 SE "optional" programs are just that. They are not required by Windows, but can be uninstalled or reinstalled at any time you wish from "Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup".
>>> Question 8. <<<
It's entirely up to you. Formatting and reinstalling from scratch is going to give you a completely fresh start without the potential for old artefacts from the registry, etc, coming back into play. You could end up running around in circles and continually trying to fix problems that might never go away if you eg. restore an old drive image, do a dirty reinstall of Windows, and then expect it to be stable again.
>>> Question 9. <<<
"Swap File" (Virtual Memory) on a dedicated partition?
It's easy enough to relocate your Swap File to another drive:
1. Right-Click on My Computer > Properties
2. Performance tab > Virtual Memory button
3. Disable Virtual Memory
4. OK > OK > Reboot
5. Steps 1 and 2 again > Untick "Disable Virtual Memory"
6. "Specify my own virtual memory settings"
7. Change drive > Minimum = 0 , Maximum = "No Maximum"
8. OK > OK > Reboot
The Windows "Swap File" is "win386.swp", and the steps above will (a) delete the default C:\Windows one and (b) create a new file on the alternative drive chosen. To be honest, I've never felt the need to do this, but it's an easy enough thing to try for yourself to guage performance. No harm in leaving the D: partition empty for this purpose. You can always reverse the changes and populate the D: Drive with files if you don't notice any difference.
>>> Windows 98 se boot floppy <<<
"The diagnostic tools were successfully loaded to drive F:"
This message indicates that the boot floppy has created a temporary Drive Letter in memory, and has unpacked several DOS Program Files into it so that they can be called using just the name of the program. This "RamDrive" is given the letter which is next up from your last hard drive partition, but before the first CD-Rom Device which will be pushed up by one letter.
"Drive G: = Driver MSCD001 Unit 0
Drive H: = Driver MSCD001 Unit 1"
These two lines tell you that the standard DOS CD-Rom Driver has been loaded and that your DVD-Rom and CD-RW Drive are accessible from DOS as drives G: and H: respectively.
Now I don’t know how malfunctional G: actually is since the following commands work as follows:
"CDR101: Not ready reading drive G:
Abort, Retry, Fail?"
This error message does not give any indication about the health of your DVD-Rom Drive, but rather that it does not contain a valid and recogniseable CD.
Placing the Windows CD in the CD-RW drive and being shown the correct results of a DIR command is exactly what you would have received had you wanted to risk inserting it in the DVD-Rom Drive. By the way, are you aware that you can insert a straightened paperclip into the tiny hole on the tray fascia of a CD Drive to manually eject the tray?
Switching to the F: drive and typing a DIR command will give you a listing of the files that were unpacked from the "EBD.CAB" file on the Boot Floppy into the "RamDrive". From a standard Win98se Boot Floppy, these files will be:
ATTRIB.EXE, CHKDSK.EXE, DEBUG.EXE, EDIT.COM, EXT.EXE, FORMAT.COM, HELP.BAT, MSCDEX.EXE, RESTART.COM, SCANDISK.EXE, SCANDISK.INI, SYS.COM.
>>> This brings up the question whether FDISK is a part of the FORMAT.COM command <<<
FORMAT.COM is a completely separate program file. FDISK.EXE is on the Boot Floppy, and stays there.
>>> Question 10. <<<
Temporarily adding drive as slave on borrowed computer to burn CD Backups.
"Isn’t it correct that Option 3 is completely useless to me because the borrowed computer has no CD writing capability, not to mention that the option is a certainly much more cumbersome process and I would have to reinstall Windows anyway?"
Yes. I was just trying to suggest a way of backing up your data, but hadn't been aware that the borrowed PC didn't have a CD-RW.
>>> Question 11. <<<
Cable-to-Cable transfer.
Is this option eliminated for a combinaion of reasons including slow transfer speeds and complicated setups making this difficult to accomplish or not effective in Safe mode?
Yes. It's more cumbersome than that suggested above, and more problem than it's worth, especially since (as you say) "I would have to reinstall Windows anyway".
>>> Question 12. <<<
Restoration of drive image backup of C: drive
To ALL of the sub-questions, this option was ONLY presented as a TEMPORARY method to get Windows to boot properly (ie. NOT just into Safe Mode) to allow you to make essential backups and then format the drive ready for a fresh installation. The fact that the sound card, AntiVirus program, etc, etc, may be restored in an incomplete or disfunctional state is insignificant. The intention is NOT to try and retain this as a permanent and usable operating system.
Your only apparent method of doing this is by booting to the "Rescue CD" created by NTI DriveImage, but you would have no way to know in advance whether it would be successful or not.
It obviously boots successfully and loads its own operating system environment. I would guess that a "Rescue CD" created for this purpose SHOULD have sufficient resources on it to do its work in the complete absence of any operating system on the target hard drive, but I don't know enough about the NTI Program to make any other guesses about just how much of your C: Drive it will restore, nor whether it will be a complete and uncorrupt backup.
>>> Question 13. <<<
Having successfully restored from the NTI "Rescue CD", does it offer any better substrate for a "dirty" reinstallation of Windows 98 SE to work on?
I would suggest this as an Either-Or situation. Either try a dirty reinstall NOW and before attempting a restoration from a "Rescue CD" OR run the "Rescue CD" THEN (if unsuccessful) try a dirty reinstall to see if it can correct things.
>>> Question 14. <<<
The potential consequences of restoration from a defective drive image.
Highly subjective, I'm afraid, and something you wouldn't know in advance. I can only reiterate that all these suggestions weren't intended as a long-term solution, only a quick fix to allow backups.
If you are happy that you don't have any data on your C: drive that cannot be replicated, then what I would do right now is this:
*** If you know the setup key for your Windows 98 CD, then skip down to step 4 ***
1. Repeatedly jab the F8 key until the F8 Menu shows
2. Choose the "Command Prompt" option
3. Type the following commands after it stops at C:\>
cd windows
cd command
find /i "ProductKey" c:\windows\system.dat
If this works, amongst the screen results you will see the following:
---------- c:\windows\system.dat
ProductKeyAB1C2-DEF34-5GHI
Write down the hyphenated 25 number/letter string immediately following "ProductKey".
If that command doesn't show the CD Key, then try this series of commands instead:
cd ..
regedit /e c:\cdkey.txt HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWAR
find /i "ProductKey" c:\cdkey.txt
This should show something like:
---------- c:\cdkey.txt
"ProductKey"="AB1C2-DEF34-
Power off once you have this number noted.
4. Boot to your boot floppy (you know it works)
5. Insert your Win98 CD in the CD-RW drive
6. Type the command h:\win98\setup
7. Follow the prompts to reinstall Windows
8. Be sure to choose C:\WINDOWS and NOT any other suggested install folder.
This is your "Dirty Reinstall".
If that doesn't allow you to boot properly into Windows, then do as follows:
1. Boot to your boot floppy (you know it works)
2. Type the command FORMAT C:
3. Accept all prompts
4. Wait until it asks you for "Volume Label or press <Enter> For None"
5. Just press Enter.
6. Insert your Win98 CD in the CD-RW drive and wait a moment
7. Type the command h:\win98\setup
8. Follow the prompts to reinstall Windows
9. Choose a "Custom" install as Ihave previously discussed.
Bill
>>> Question 1. <<<
Re Option No. 1: Dirty Reinstall.
The message "Error loading Explorer.exe" is probably indicative of the fact that you have a version conflict between files (usually DLL files) that are required to load full windows (ie. the Windows "shell"), or that you have incorrect settings or even a missing file. Only IF the affected system file(s) is/are "shared" by any other installed programs would the problem affect that/those programs. I get the impression that you are envisaging your system to comprise only a small portion of the content that should be there. I have a feeling that you still have a complete Windows installation - minus a couple of crucial files - that's all.
Through a dirty reinstall you would be seeking to reinstate compatible file versions (albeit the older original ones) and to restore missing files or bad settings to try and get your system to boot into Windows. Reinstallation Windows over any existing (or previous version of) Windows will always read the existing registry and other configuration files, and will make only changes necessary to reinstall Windows. The vast majority (if not all) of the installed NON-Microsoft programs will usually be left as they were.
Say, for instance, you restored your C: Drive to a previous state from a backup image made with your NTI Drive Imaging application. This will restore the PREVIOUS REGISTRY as well as the files that were present on the drive at the time of the backup. Doing a dirty reinstall of Windows over this will will be no different than if you had done so over the previous disfunctional Windows installation. It reads the registry and configuration files, tries to restore missing files and important default Windows settings, and tends to leave non-microsoft programs unaffected.
The objective here isn't a long-term fix, it's a temporary one to allow you to back up files only, and then take care of the partition size issue. I presume you wish to back up your Address Book, Favorites, etc, if you haven't done so already. At a push, you could do this from DOS, but it's a whole lot easier doing so from within Windows, so restoring a previous drive image to allow you to at least get into Windows would be a reasonable option to consider.
It all depends on whether you still have any data on the C: Drive that you want to try and preserve until you can back it up, eg. Address Book, Favorites, etc. IF the Dirty Reinstall doesn't allow Windows to boot fully, or if you don't have anything on the C: Drive that you want to back up, then Option No. 2 (Format and Reinstall) would create a stable NEW Windows 98 installation from which backups could be made of your OTHER PARTITIONS, but I would still consider that installation a temporary measure, because the best option probably IS to change the sizes of your partitions, and the normal repartitioning process destroys all data.
You stated:
>>>
"I could reformat the drives to enlarge my C: drive and decrease the size of my D: drive".
<<<
There are two crucial references that you have to understand here. FDISK and FORMAT.
1. FDISK.EXE - Used to create and delete Partitions.
A brand new hard drive comes WITHOUT any partitions on it. They don't know how it will be used so this is left up to the user to split up.
Running FDISK shows a Menu of options and further sub-menu's from which you choose what you want to achieve. A Hard Drive is a magnetic medium that has a physical structure on it which allows it to hold data. This physical structure is called the "File System" and is created by formatting the drive. You can only Format a drive once it has been partitioned into one of more valid partitions.
2. FORMAT.COM is called using the command:
FORMAT Drive_Letter:
eg.
FORMAT C:
This effectively wipes out all data on the named hard drive (or partition of a hard drive). If you Format your C: Drive then you are wiping out your operating system (Windows 98). On a bare drive that contains one or more valid partitions, the Format command creates the structure that allows data storage, ie. the "Filing System" (FAT32 for Windows 98). On a drive that has already been partitioned and formatted, reformatting it just frees up all the areas on it so that new data can be written onto it. A FAT32 drive has an Index at the start of it called the File Allocation Table (FAT). This stores the exact locations of all files stored on the drive. Formatting the drive rewrites and voids this Index so that the drive appears to have nothing on it. Formatting a drive has no effect on the partitions, or on any of the data stored on partitions other than the drive letter given at the Format command.
You mention that you have successfully used "Partition Commander" to resize partitions without destroying any data on them. That would be the best option to use, and thus ensure the integrity of data on the other partitions other than C:
>>> Question 2. <<<
Making backups of the essential data
In my view, your DVD-Rom Drive cannot be trusted, given that it "began to make low intensity grinding & rattling noises" and the tray doesn't open and close properly. This MIGHT cause problems if using it to reinstall Windows from, or even if you chose to use it to copy the Windows 98 CD Contents to one of your partitions for a hard drive to hard drive installation. You would no doubt receive notification of any failed file copying, and could restart the file copying, but this could be disastrous if you were trying a Dirty Reinstall to repair Windows. In that event, you would certainly be formatting the C: Drive and reinstalling Windows from scratch earlier than you may have planned.
My advice is to buy a new DVD-Rom Drive NOW and replace the problem one. They are pretty cheap and modern ones are very fast. DVD-Rom drives are just the same as CD-Rom and CD-RW Drives in that they are automatically recognised by Windows and immediately available for use without having to install any extra drivers. They usually come with a CD containing something like a DVD Playback Application (eg. PowerDVD) and also a DOS DRIVER. In the event that the CD-Rom drivers on a standard Win98se Boot Floppy didn't work with the new DVD-Rom Drive, then it is easy enough to replace them with the one supplied on the CD to provide access from DOS.
The only time you ever usually have to install anything for full functionality of a CD-Rom, DVD-Rom, or CD-RW Drive is where you have a drive that is newer than the release date of CD-Burning software. In that event, the software may not know what functions are supported, or may not identify the device, and you then have to download and install a "Drive Update" from the software vendor's support site. This only usually affects the CD-RW Drive, and not the CD/DVD-Rom Drives, and isn't something that you should worry about anyway.
A CD Writer Drive such as your TDK 241040B CD-RW Drive can be used in much the same way as a CD-Rom or DVD-Rom Drive for installing Windows from the CD, or for transferring files and folders. Ideally you shouldn't really use a CD Writer drive for normal CD-Rom use all the time because the mechanisms aren't quite as robust as a CD-Rom/DVD-Rom Drive, but it's not going to harm the drive by using it to install Windows from.
This brings me to the "thought that just crossed your mind" about the presence of "a wire connection between this CD-DVD player and elsewhere in the computer". CD-Rom and DVD-Rom drives have a small flat 3 wire socket on the back that accommodates an audio output lead. On motherboards with an integrated sound chip, the other end of this wire plugs into a motherboard socket. On boards without an integrated sound chip, the other end of the wire plugs into a socket right on the sound card. Some sound cards have two sockets, where you could also have a wire from your CD-RW Drive, but most often there is only one socket. The logical choice is to connect your "playback" drive to this ie. your DVD-Rom Drive. The CD-RW Drive shouldn't be used for the playback of Audio CD's, etc, so this doesn't matter.
This audio cable is only present to carry audio signals from your CD-Rom/DVD-Rom drive to the soundcard. In your case, this enables you to playback audio CD's. If it was missing, you could still plug headphones right into the front socket of the drive itself and hear the audio playback. The slider on your Windows Volume Control for "CD Player" just balances the input from that device against others in the same way that you could plug a microphone or auxilliary device into the correct socket of your sound card and balance that level against the others.
Playing an Audio CD in your DVD-Rom drive is similar in a way to playing a Vinyl Record on an old Hi-Fi. It reads "tracks", sends the signals to an amplifier, and then sends those altered signals out to speakers. Your Sound Card is, in a very basic sense, the amplifier. A record has a groove that wobbles a needle, and this is translated into pulses by the magnetic needle cartridge, whereas a CD has pits and troughs that are differentiated by their depth and read by a laser that works on the reflectivity from the layers of a CD, but they both create pulses. A record player merely amplifies these signals, whereas a Sound Card on a computer processes them to work on a computer.
I can plug my electric guitar into my sound card and play it straight through my speakers in the same way that I can hear myself through the speakers if I plug in a microphone. These will both work regardless of whether there is an audio cable connected from my DVD-Rom Drive to my soundcard. The same is true if I play back saved multimedia files like .mpg/.avi movies or .wav files, or if I used a video conferencing application along with a webcam and microphone.
IF, however, I had somehow managed to plug the other end of my DVD-Rom to Sound Card audio lead into the WRONG socket on my sound card or motherboard, then this COULD certainly cause some problems. This would be pretty difficult, because connectors are deliberately made to be different sizes and shapes depending on their uses.
Take a look at this image of your sound card:
http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/kb_ftp/5761004.asp
There are 3 sockets (black, green, and white) that are mounted at the top of the board following the diagonal slope. The Black one is your "CD In" connector. The Green one is to connect a Voice Modem. The White one is an "Auxilliary In" connector, and may double as an additional connector from your CD-RW Drive if you chose. If you are worried about this, open the case and verify thet the cable is connected from your DVD-Rom Drive to the Black socket on the sound card.
>>> Question 5: <<<
Regarding the "TDK Digital MixMaster" which you recall as having been installed when the TDK CD-RW Drive was "installed". This is ADDITIONAL software, and is certainly NOT essential to the actual functionality of the CD-RW Drive. When you buy a CD-RW drive, you always receive a CD containing a bundled (cut-down or "Lite") version of a CD Burning application like Easy CD Creator, Nero Express, or perhaps a lesser known name. You DON'T HAVE to install that application if you already have a fuller or preferred CD Burning application. In addition to this, the CD may also have other demo or full utility programs like "TDK Digital Mixmaster".
>>> "Should I avoid installing the TDK Digital MixMaster?" <<<
Have you ever used it?
It is actually based heavily on Nero's "Media Player", and can be used to extract tracks from Audio CD's to separate files, balance loudness across several tracks, convert vinyl or cassette input and burn to CD, etc. It looks to be very versatile, although complicated in layout, but essentially just provides an "all in one place" interface to what Nero already provides as separate functions.
You can install this any time you want, but I suggest leaving it until AFTER you know that your Soundcard is working properly.
>>> Question 6. <<<
Using the External 160 GB Western Digital hard drive to make hard drive backups.
By all means use it to copy folders and files to, but DON'T use it to create a drive image to where the method of restoring that image relies on doing so from DOS Mode. DOS does not support USB. Something like NTI DriveImage MIGHT load its own operating system environment that can restore from USB devices, but that's something you will have to ascertain.
>>> Question 7 <<<
Windows 98 SE "optional" programs are just that. They are not required by Windows, but can be uninstalled or reinstalled at any time you wish from "Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup".
>>> Question 8. <<<
It's entirely up to you. Formatting and reinstalling from scratch is going to give you a completely fresh start without the potential for old artefacts from the registry, etc, coming back into play. You could end up running around in circles and continually trying to fix problems that might never go away if you eg. restore an old drive image, do a dirty reinstall of Windows, and then expect it to be stable again.
>>> Question 9. <<<
"Swap File" (Virtual Memory) on a dedicated partition?
It's easy enough to relocate your Swap File to another drive:
1. Right-Click on My Computer > Properties
2. Performance tab > Virtual Memory button
3. Disable Virtual Memory
4. OK > OK > Reboot
5. Steps 1 and 2 again > Untick "Disable Virtual Memory"
6. "Specify my own virtual memory settings"
7. Change drive > Minimum = 0 , Maximum = "No Maximum"
8. OK > OK > Reboot
The Windows "Swap File" is "win386.swp", and the steps above will (a) delete the default C:\Windows one and (b) create a new file on the alternative drive chosen. To be honest, I've never felt the need to do this, but it's an easy enough thing to try for yourself to guage performance. No harm in leaving the D: partition empty for this purpose. You can always reverse the changes and populate the D: Drive with files if you don't notice any difference.
>>> Windows 98 se boot floppy <<<
"The diagnostic tools were successfully loaded to drive F:"
This message indicates that the boot floppy has created a temporary Drive Letter in memory, and has unpacked several DOS Program Files into it so that they can be called using just the name of the program. This "RamDrive" is given the letter which is next up from your last hard drive partition, but before the first CD-Rom Device which will be pushed up by one letter.
"Drive G: = Driver MSCD001 Unit 0
Drive H: = Driver MSCD001 Unit 1"
These two lines tell you that the standard DOS CD-Rom Driver has been loaded and that your DVD-Rom and CD-RW Drive are accessible from DOS as drives G: and H: respectively.
Now I don’t know how malfunctional G: actually is since the following commands work as follows:
"CDR101: Not ready reading drive G:
Abort, Retry, Fail?"
This error message does not give any indication about the health of your DVD-Rom Drive, but rather that it does not contain a valid and recogniseable CD.
Placing the Windows CD in the CD-RW drive and being shown the correct results of a DIR command is exactly what you would have received had you wanted to risk inserting it in the DVD-Rom Drive. By the way, are you aware that you can insert a straightened paperclip into the tiny hole on the tray fascia of a CD Drive to manually eject the tray?
Switching to the F: drive and typing a DIR command will give you a listing of the files that were unpacked from the "EBD.CAB" file on the Boot Floppy into the "RamDrive". From a standard Win98se Boot Floppy, these files will be:
ATTRIB.EXE, CHKDSK.EXE, DEBUG.EXE, EDIT.COM, EXT.EXE, FORMAT.COM, HELP.BAT, MSCDEX.EXE, RESTART.COM, SCANDISK.EXE, SCANDISK.INI, SYS.COM.
>>> This brings up the question whether FDISK is a part of the FORMAT.COM command <<<
FORMAT.COM is a completely separate program file. FDISK.EXE is on the Boot Floppy, and stays there.
>>> Question 10. <<<
Temporarily adding drive as slave on borrowed computer to burn CD Backups.
"Isn’t it correct that Option 3 is completely useless to me because the borrowed computer has no CD writing capability, not to mention that the option is a certainly much more cumbersome process and I would have to reinstall Windows anyway?"
Yes. I was just trying to suggest a way of backing up your data, but hadn't been aware that the borrowed PC didn't have a CD-RW.
>>> Question 11. <<<
Cable-to-Cable transfer.
Is this option eliminated for a combinaion of reasons including slow transfer speeds and complicated setups making this difficult to accomplish or not effective in Safe mode?
Yes. It's more cumbersome than that suggested above, and more problem than it's worth, especially since (as you say) "I would have to reinstall Windows anyway".
>>> Question 12. <<<
Restoration of drive image backup of C: drive
To ALL of the sub-questions, this option was ONLY presented as a TEMPORARY method to get Windows to boot properly (ie. NOT just into Safe Mode) to allow you to make essential backups and then format the drive ready for a fresh installation. The fact that the sound card, AntiVirus program, etc, etc, may be restored in an incomplete or disfunctional state is insignificant. The intention is NOT to try and retain this as a permanent and usable operating system.
Your only apparent method of doing this is by booting to the "Rescue CD" created by NTI DriveImage, but you would have no way to know in advance whether it would be successful or not.
It obviously boots successfully and loads its own operating system environment. I would guess that a "Rescue CD" created for this purpose SHOULD have sufficient resources on it to do its work in the complete absence of any operating system on the target hard drive, but I don't know enough about the NTI Program to make any other guesses about just how much of your C: Drive it will restore, nor whether it will be a complete and uncorrupt backup.
>>> Question 13. <<<
Having successfully restored from the NTI "Rescue CD", does it offer any better substrate for a "dirty" reinstallation of Windows 98 SE to work on?
I would suggest this as an Either-Or situation. Either try a dirty reinstall NOW and before attempting a restoration from a "Rescue CD" OR run the "Rescue CD" THEN (if unsuccessful) try a dirty reinstall to see if it can correct things.
>>> Question 14. <<<
The potential consequences of restoration from a defective drive image.
Highly subjective, I'm afraid, and something you wouldn't know in advance. I can only reiterate that all these suggestions weren't intended as a long-term solution, only a quick fix to allow backups.
If you are happy that you don't have any data on your C: drive that cannot be replicated, then what I would do right now is this:
*** If you know the setup key for your Windows 98 CD, then skip down to step 4 ***
1. Repeatedly jab the F8 key until the F8 Menu shows
2. Choose the "Command Prompt" option
3. Type the following commands after it stops at C:\>
cd windows
cd command
find /i "ProductKey" c:\windows\system.dat
If this works, amongst the screen results you will see the following:
---------- c:\windows\system.dat
ProductKeyAB1C2-DEF34-5GHI
Write down the hyphenated 25 number/letter string immediately following "ProductKey".
If that command doesn't show the CD Key, then try this series of commands instead:
cd ..
regedit /e c:\cdkey.txt HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWAR
find /i "ProductKey" c:\cdkey.txt
This should show something like:
---------- c:\cdkey.txt
"ProductKey"="AB1C2-DEF34-
Power off once you have this number noted.
4. Boot to your boot floppy (you know it works)
5. Insert your Win98 CD in the CD-RW drive
6. Type the command h:\win98\setup
7. Follow the prompts to reinstall Windows
8. Be sure to choose C:\WINDOWS and NOT any other suggested install folder.
This is your "Dirty Reinstall".
If that doesn't allow you to boot properly into Windows, then do as follows:
1. Boot to your boot floppy (you know it works)
2. Type the command FORMAT C:
3. Accept all prompts
4. Wait until it asks you for "Volume Label or press <Enter> For None"
5. Just press Enter.
6. Insert your Win98 CD in the CD-RW drive and wait a moment
7. Type the command h:\win98\setup
8. Follow the prompts to reinstall Windows
9. Choose a "Custom" install as Ihave previously discussed.
Bill
After that, you can always use your "Partition Commander" to resize the C: Partition non-destructively.
ASKER
Bill, I'm working on it.
ASKER
Bill, sorry for the long delay. I'll explain the delay and try to end this process successfully soon.
Bob
Bob
No problem Bob.
ASKER
Bill, there actually is a problem and that is my slow responses. My delay is that I was hospitalized for about 3 days around 11/6/05 with vertigo and have been having periods of recurrent vertigo which, to say the least, are a bit disturbing. I'm not making excuses to you but only trying to explain why I haven't been following through as I should have been doing since I owe you that.
I do want to resolve these problems since I've been dawdling along with them for about 4 months now and need to clean it up.
I have decided that I want to do a new clean installation of a Windows 98 SE onto a clean C: drive which will dictate my remaining subsequent questions so, since you've already given me much material, don't present any further material now since all I want to do now is clear up my remaining confusion which I'll present hereafter.
Bob
I do want to resolve these problems since I've been dawdling along with them for about 4 months now and need to clean it up.
I have decided that I want to do a new clean installation of a Windows 98 SE onto a clean C: drive which will dictate my remaining subsequent questions so, since you've already given me much material, don't present any further material now since all I want to do now is clear up my remaining confusion which I'll present hereafter.
Bob
Phew, that's a shocker. I hope you begin to feel better soon, Bob. The last thing you really need right now is having to think about resolving computing problems.
Until then, don't change your screensaver to anything too "whirly", and make sure your seat has high arm rests :-)
Seriously though, that feeling of disequilibrium can be an awful thing to be plagued with, and the accompanying nausea is not pleasant. I had a friend who suffered on-and-off from Vertigo.
Get well soon
Bill
Until then, don't change your screensaver to anything too "whirly", and make sure your seat has high arm rests :-)
Seriously though, that feeling of disequilibrium can be an awful thing to be plagued with, and the accompanying nausea is not pleasant. I had a friend who suffered on-and-off from Vertigo.
Get well soon
Bill
ASKER
OK, Bill, I'm feeling a bit better and, again, apologize for all the delay but hope to have about the last of my questions for this Windows 98SE installation process returned here within the next 24-48 hours.
Bob
Bob
Glad you're feeling up to it, Bob. Listening in ...
rsuess1 hi how are you :)
I hope your well enough to continue this unbelievable lengthy post, I really do feel our friends here at EE have gone way beyond what I consider simple help and good suggestions but rather have lost the plot and have let you down.
This kind of Iteck assistnace may have contributed your vertigo. Long periods in front of a computer with very indepth IT can cause this :(
The one simple thing not mentioned here is to run a system file checker.
Often times sounds problems are caused by a corrupted wav file file and can be fixed by running the system file checker.
To run System File Checker:
Click the Start button, point to Programs, point to Accessories, and then point to Select System Tools.
Click System Information.
On the menu bar, click Tools.
Click System File Checker.
Choose either Scan for altered files or Extract one file from installation disk.
Here it is illistrated.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/usingwindows/maintaining/tips/beginner/sysfilecheck.asp
With kindest regards Merete
I hope your well enough to continue this unbelievable lengthy post, I really do feel our friends here at EE have gone way beyond what I consider simple help and good suggestions but rather have lost the plot and have let you down.
This kind of Iteck assistnace may have contributed your vertigo. Long periods in front of a computer with very indepth IT can cause this :(
The one simple thing not mentioned here is to run a system file checker.
Often times sounds problems are caused by a corrupted wav file file and can be fixed by running the system file checker.
To run System File Checker:
Click the Start button, point to Programs, point to Accessories, and then point to Select System Tools.
Click System Information.
On the menu bar, click Tools.
Click System File Checker.
Choose either Scan for altered files or Extract one file from installation disk.
Here it is illistrated.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/usingwindows/maintaining/tips/beginner/sysfilecheck.asp
With kindest regards Merete
ASKER
To Merete
No, people here at EE have not let me down. I realize the length of this total post is extremely long but that is due, entirely, to the great number of questions I have posed and the thorough, but to the point, answers I have received. This has been a great learning experience for me and I couldn't recommend it more highly. I am close to the end of those questions but, hopefully, will resolve my original questions regarding the audio problems and what hindered the solution to those problems - a failing operating system that was developing as the discussion proceeded. And, another thing that I valued was that as those operating system problems developed, even though they were off my original subject, I wasn't abandoned. I will be able to reinstall soon after my next post or two.
Thank you for your interest.
Bob
No, people here at EE have not let me down. I realize the length of this total post is extremely long but that is due, entirely, to the great number of questions I have posed and the thorough, but to the point, answers I have received. This has been a great learning experience for me and I couldn't recommend it more highly. I am close to the end of those questions but, hopefully, will resolve my original questions regarding the audio problems and what hindered the solution to those problems - a failing operating system that was developing as the discussion proceeded. And, another thing that I valued was that as those operating system problems developed, even though they were off my original subject, I wasn't abandoned. I will be able to reinstall soon after my next post or two.
Thank you for your interest.
Bob
ASKER
OK, Bill, hopefully, the final leg of the process. Thank you.
I’ll be describing the actions I believe I should be taking as I proceed with the operating system installation and I would appreciate any correction of errors I make in my discussion.
I’ll divide my discussions and questions into 2 types:
A. Those having to do with the preparations, including the backup processes required, before doing the actual new installation of the operating system
B. The actual installation of the operating system itself
The A set – backup processes:
1. It is not clear what recommendation, if any, you were making about backing up any registry keys from my present system before destroying it.
Question 1:
You had mentioned, without actually naming them some registry keys or registry material that should possibly be backed up to a REG file that might be useful in the new installation (presuming I ever get there.) Any suggestions?
Question 2:
Would it be useful just to backup the present (old) entire registry to a REG file just to have it available if I later wanted to recover anything forgotten? I realize the necessity to avoid merging that back with the registry of a new installation.
2. In your discussion it wasn’t clear whether you were actually referring to dial-up networking settings that I had to manage since I don’t have any dial-up services but only a cable connection. Do I have any such “dial-up” concerns or am I misunderstanding terminology?
Question 3:
Were you saying that my Internet connectivity could simply be handled by backing up the icon for my DUN settings located on the old operating system (the one to be replaced) in the My Computer > Dial-Up Networking folder and then simply dropping that icon back into the same folder on the new operating system and that this should restore my Internet connectivity?
Question 4:
Wouldn’t it be possible to leave it up to the cable company to walk me through the setting requirements for their connection?
3. It is not clear to me how the 'My Documents' folder is handled in the Windows operating system. Without my tending to it, it has been automatically present on my E: Data drive which, as it turns out, is just where I would have placed it. I don’t remember having done anything that actively relocated it from the C: drive (if that is where it is “naturally” placed by Windows) to that E: drive.
Question 5:
It was Windows that did establish the ‘My Documents’ folder, wasn’t it?
Question 6:
Then how might the ‘My Documents’ folder have actually been placed on the E: drive? Would Windows have allowed me to just move it from the C: drive to the E: drive where it is currently located?
Question 7:
Since I am hoping to retain my E: drive intact as it is now, even after the installation of the new operating system, will there be any problem in trying to keep my old ‘My Documents’ folder on my E: drive at a time when I am installing Windows 98 SE along with MSOffice?
4. You gave some detailed instructions for finding the ProductKey via the command line alone or via the use of regedit.
Question 8:
Of what use is the ProductKey? Is it necessary to allow any required validation of the process of installation or any other processes?
The B set – the installation processes:
5. We've had discussions about resizing my partitions to accommodate future application needs but I believe I might be able to avoid this resizing and still follow your advice to install everything on my C: drive, at least for the time being because I won't reinstall anything to my C: drive except MS Office 2000 (Word, Outlook, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access), Internet Explorer 6, Outlook Express 6, Partition Commander (just in case), Paint Shop Pro 9, Trend Micro Internet Security 2006 (I’m a glutton for punishment but it seemed to be functioning so smoothly until I started messing with uninstalling all the previous versions), and Quicken 2006 and Macro Express. I hope I haven’t underestimated the size of those programs when installed but looking at this array I might be wrong.
All my other installation files for any other applications I have kept on the E: drive and for the present I don't intend to reinstall these. I will also have to reinstall the Palm software, my Western Digital external hard drive also, and my TDK CD Writer.
Question 9:
Any comments?
Question 10:
I’m confused about the specific instructions involving the installations of DirectX, Internet Explorer 6, and Outlook Express6 since, I believe, you had informed me that these might be offered by parts of the installation process and an item should be turned down and installed under other circumstances instead of that offered at the time. Please clarify?
Question 11:
Am I correct that the fdisk command will format the entire hard drive and set its partitions, and so would be incorrect to use since I want to be able to retain my D: and E: drive data intact through the installation?
6. As I've mentioned, I want to do a clean installation of Windows 98 SE but retain my current D: and E: drives with material on them intact. Therefore I will use the Windows boot Startup disk that allows access to the Windows 98 SE installation CD and the command line in the following way:
a) Having booted up to a command line with the boot disk, then confirm that there is an H: drive (where I believe the CD: Writer is located – the only CD reader in my system) and that the Windows 98SE Installation CD can be read.
b) Move to the D: drive and
c) Type in ‘Format C:’
d) When the formatting of the C: drive is complete, then place the installation Window 98 SE CD in the H: drive and type Win98\setup
<enter>.
7. You then recommended installing drivers for the hardware that the new installation process finds such as a new installation of the sound card and the display adapter card. As I understand the process, the developing operating system will encounter hardware and then, missing its drivers, will proceed to install these.
Question 12:
Isn’t this driver installation process, at least in my computer as it is currently set up with hardware in place as it has been for the past 6 years, an automatic process that the installation process/operating system will take care of – and yet am I wrong that it seems that your discussion seems to imply that this is under my control to order to be done?
Question 13:
Since all data has been wiped off of C: drive by the Format command are glitches such as that incorrect msvcrt.dll version avoided?
Question 14:
Am I correct that as long as the new installation of Windows 98 SE found no malfunctional cards in the current upcoming attempt to reinstall a Windows 98 SE operating system shouldn’t it be as fully functional as that original 1999 operating system?
Question 15:
That is, fully functional except insofar as current up-to-date applications might require updating some drivers?
8. Next in your discussion you state that I should “install the chipset drivers for the motherboard (probably on my Dell Dimension ResourceCD)” but the only problem with that is that I don’t recognize anything that looks like chipset drivers on the Resource CD. To lend emphasis to this when I try to read the Resource CD, I see a message that, basically, reads:
“Driver restoration is intended to be performed under the direction of qualified support personnel”, and then after telling that unless I have detailed knowledge, please contact the appropriate support group. So they must mean business. And I believe them. That’s why I’m discussing this with you.
Question 16:
Do you want to see TreePrint applied to that ResourceCD?
9. You went on in your discussion to state that installing the chipset drivers immediately after step 2 (hardware drivers) often resolves unidentified hardware in Device Manager, but if not, then you can either use the "Update Driver" option for ! or X items in Device Manager OR, if you have a setup package that installs the drivers, then double-click on it.
Question 17:
Are you saying that if I don’t install the chipset drivers it will be evident in the Device Manager as a ! or X notation for the hardware(?) item and I could simply click on the ‘Update button’ to install drivers for the chipset assuming they could be found?
Question 18:
But wouldn’t the computer be disabled by the fact that chipset drivers had not been installed?
Question 19:
In the only other installation of the operating system that I remember performing about 4-5 years ago (for whatever that might be worth), I don’t remember any chipset driver installation phase so is it possible that this might not be needed here (or is that just too naïve)?
Question 20:
To repeat myself your statements seem to imply that there was a voluntary nature to, first, installing the hardware drivers, and, second, installing the chipset drivers. Correct me if I am wrong but aren’t these processes totally under an automatic installation process that I don’t recall much control over?
Question 21:
I have a Dell Dimension ResourceCD but didn’t see anything “offhand” that I could recognize as related to chipset drivers. Any suggestions how I might verify this? The computer was a Dell Dimension XPS T500 and I do remember my service tag number.
Question 22:
After an installation, if successful, would a simple attempt to perform a Windows Update be successful for the entire period from June 1999 to January, 2006 without missing any needed updates for that entire period?
Question 23:
I believe I’ve read that Windows 98 support was going to be terminated in early to mid 2006 so I guess that lends increased urgency to my current reinstallation process, doesn’t it? Or would there be some alternative to supply the needed update other than to move on to Windows XP and a new computer?
I’ll be describing the actions I believe I should be taking as I proceed with the operating system installation and I would appreciate any correction of errors I make in my discussion.
I’ll divide my discussions and questions into 2 types:
A. Those having to do with the preparations, including the backup processes required, before doing the actual new installation of the operating system
B. The actual installation of the operating system itself
The A set – backup processes:
1. It is not clear what recommendation, if any, you were making about backing up any registry keys from my present system before destroying it.
Question 1:
You had mentioned, without actually naming them some registry keys or registry material that should possibly be backed up to a REG file that might be useful in the new installation (presuming I ever get there.) Any suggestions?
Question 2:
Would it be useful just to backup the present (old) entire registry to a REG file just to have it available if I later wanted to recover anything forgotten? I realize the necessity to avoid merging that back with the registry of a new installation.
2. In your discussion it wasn’t clear whether you were actually referring to dial-up networking settings that I had to manage since I don’t have any dial-up services but only a cable connection. Do I have any such “dial-up” concerns or am I misunderstanding terminology?
Question 3:
Were you saying that my Internet connectivity could simply be handled by backing up the icon for my DUN settings located on the old operating system (the one to be replaced) in the My Computer > Dial-Up Networking folder and then simply dropping that icon back into the same folder on the new operating system and that this should restore my Internet connectivity?
Question 4:
Wouldn’t it be possible to leave it up to the cable company to walk me through the setting requirements for their connection?
3. It is not clear to me how the 'My Documents' folder is handled in the Windows operating system. Without my tending to it, it has been automatically present on my E: Data drive which, as it turns out, is just where I would have placed it. I don’t remember having done anything that actively relocated it from the C: drive (if that is where it is “naturally” placed by Windows) to that E: drive.
Question 5:
It was Windows that did establish the ‘My Documents’ folder, wasn’t it?
Question 6:
Then how might the ‘My Documents’ folder have actually been placed on the E: drive? Would Windows have allowed me to just move it from the C: drive to the E: drive where it is currently located?
Question 7:
Since I am hoping to retain my E: drive intact as it is now, even after the installation of the new operating system, will there be any problem in trying to keep my old ‘My Documents’ folder on my E: drive at a time when I am installing Windows 98 SE along with MSOffice?
4. You gave some detailed instructions for finding the ProductKey via the command line alone or via the use of regedit.
Question 8:
Of what use is the ProductKey? Is it necessary to allow any required validation of the process of installation or any other processes?
The B set – the installation processes:
5. We've had discussions about resizing my partitions to accommodate future application needs but I believe I might be able to avoid this resizing and still follow your advice to install everything on my C: drive, at least for the time being because I won't reinstall anything to my C: drive except MS Office 2000 (Word, Outlook, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access), Internet Explorer 6, Outlook Express 6, Partition Commander (just in case), Paint Shop Pro 9, Trend Micro Internet Security 2006 (I’m a glutton for punishment but it seemed to be functioning so smoothly until I started messing with uninstalling all the previous versions), and Quicken 2006 and Macro Express. I hope I haven’t underestimated the size of those programs when installed but looking at this array I might be wrong.
All my other installation files for any other applications I have kept on the E: drive and for the present I don't intend to reinstall these. I will also have to reinstall the Palm software, my Western Digital external hard drive also, and my TDK CD Writer.
Question 9:
Any comments?
Question 10:
I’m confused about the specific instructions involving the installations of DirectX, Internet Explorer 6, and Outlook Express6 since, I believe, you had informed me that these might be offered by parts of the installation process and an item should be turned down and installed under other circumstances instead of that offered at the time. Please clarify?
Question 11:
Am I correct that the fdisk command will format the entire hard drive and set its partitions, and so would be incorrect to use since I want to be able to retain my D: and E: drive data intact through the installation?
6. As I've mentioned, I want to do a clean installation of Windows 98 SE but retain my current D: and E: drives with material on them intact. Therefore I will use the Windows boot Startup disk that allows access to the Windows 98 SE installation CD and the command line in the following way:
a) Having booted up to a command line with the boot disk, then confirm that there is an H: drive (where I believe the CD: Writer is located – the only CD reader in my system) and that the Windows 98SE Installation CD can be read.
b) Move to the D: drive and
c) Type in ‘Format C:’
d) When the formatting of the C: drive is complete, then place the installation Window 98 SE CD in the H: drive and type Win98\setup
<enter>.
7. You then recommended installing drivers for the hardware that the new installation process finds such as a new installation of the sound card and the display adapter card. As I understand the process, the developing operating system will encounter hardware and then, missing its drivers, will proceed to install these.
Question 12:
Isn’t this driver installation process, at least in my computer as it is currently set up with hardware in place as it has been for the past 6 years, an automatic process that the installation process/operating system will take care of – and yet am I wrong that it seems that your discussion seems to imply that this is under my control to order to be done?
Question 13:
Since all data has been wiped off of C: drive by the Format command are glitches such as that incorrect msvcrt.dll version avoided?
Question 14:
Am I correct that as long as the new installation of Windows 98 SE found no malfunctional cards in the current upcoming attempt to reinstall a Windows 98 SE operating system shouldn’t it be as fully functional as that original 1999 operating system?
Question 15:
That is, fully functional except insofar as current up-to-date applications might require updating some drivers?
8. Next in your discussion you state that I should “install the chipset drivers for the motherboard (probably on my Dell Dimension ResourceCD)” but the only problem with that is that I don’t recognize anything that looks like chipset drivers on the Resource CD. To lend emphasis to this when I try to read the Resource CD, I see a message that, basically, reads:
“Driver restoration is intended to be performed under the direction of qualified support personnel”, and then after telling that unless I have detailed knowledge, please contact the appropriate support group. So they must mean business. And I believe them. That’s why I’m discussing this with you.
Question 16:
Do you want to see TreePrint applied to that ResourceCD?
9. You went on in your discussion to state that installing the chipset drivers immediately after step 2 (hardware drivers) often resolves unidentified hardware in Device Manager, but if not, then you can either use the "Update Driver" option for ! or X items in Device Manager OR, if you have a setup package that installs the drivers, then double-click on it.
Question 17:
Are you saying that if I don’t install the chipset drivers it will be evident in the Device Manager as a ! or X notation for the hardware(?) item and I could simply click on the ‘Update button’ to install drivers for the chipset assuming they could be found?
Question 18:
But wouldn’t the computer be disabled by the fact that chipset drivers had not been installed?
Question 19:
In the only other installation of the operating system that I remember performing about 4-5 years ago (for whatever that might be worth), I don’t remember any chipset driver installation phase so is it possible that this might not be needed here (or is that just too naïve)?
Question 20:
To repeat myself your statements seem to imply that there was a voluntary nature to, first, installing the hardware drivers, and, second, installing the chipset drivers. Correct me if I am wrong but aren’t these processes totally under an automatic installation process that I don’t recall much control over?
Question 21:
I have a Dell Dimension ResourceCD but didn’t see anything “offhand” that I could recognize as related to chipset drivers. Any suggestions how I might verify this? The computer was a Dell Dimension XPS T500 and I do remember my service tag number.
Question 22:
After an installation, if successful, would a simple attempt to perform a Windows Update be successful for the entire period from June 1999 to January, 2006 without missing any needed updates for that entire period?
Question 23:
I believe I’ve read that Windows 98 support was going to be terminated in early to mid 2006 so I guess that lends increased urgency to my current reinstallation process, doesn’t it? Or would there be some alternative to supply the needed update other than to move on to Windows XP and a new computer?
Bob, You have given me a fair amount to respond to, but if you can hang off for a day or two I will give them my fullest attention once I've cleared up a few outstanding chores.
ASKER
Bill, I now have only one objective remaining: Get that #@x*#$#* operating system reinstalled and functioning. I use #@x*#$#* affectionately. No problem waiting but I should warn you that that will just give me more time to think up questions.
Excuse me, two objectives left: the second one is to get that audio to behave, but I assume that the first objective will remedy the second.
Bob
Excuse me, two objectives left: the second one is to get that audio to behave, but I assume that the first objective will remedy the second.
Bob
Hopefully so :-) Still going through the questions. Will post later tonight after I finish work.
rsuess1 did you find time to run the system file checker? Corrupted audio files can be repaired using this without having to perform a full install?
You stated here>
The Sounds Properties box will not allow me to preview (hear) any .wav files and gives me the message:
“Windows cannot play the C:\WINDOWS\media\ding.wav (or any of the other .wav files there). It may be damaged or may not be a valid sound file. Replace the file and try again.”
However, I can play those same .wav files that won’t play in the Sounds Properties box in the Windows Media Player 9 with no problem hearing them.
These are windows system files and shows that they are corrupted, by this even though your sounds as such as working the required mid. wav are not.
Here is the illistrated guide. I remember when using windows98 the setup.dll and sounds was a frequent problem and running the system file checker usualy fixed it.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows98/usingwindows/maintaining/tips/beginner/sysfilecheck.asp
You stated here>
The Sounds Properties box will not allow me to preview (hear) any .wav files and gives me the message:
“Windows cannot play the C:\WINDOWS\media\ding.wav (or any of the other .wav files there). It may be damaged or may not be a valid sound file. Replace the file and try again.”
However, I can play those same .wav files that won’t play in the Sounds Properties box in the Windows Media Player 9 with no problem hearing them.
These are windows system files and shows that they are corrupted, by this even though your sounds as such as working the required mid. wav are not.
Here is the illistrated guide. I remember when using windows98 the setup.dll and sounds was a frequent problem and running the system file checker usualy fixed it.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows98/usingwindows/maintaining/tips/beginner/sysfilecheck.asp
SOLUTION
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ASKER
Merete, thanks for the tip. It sounds useful under the right circumstances.
However, at present, along with the preceding operating system problems that I mentioned having, the following finally occurred and convinced me that I couldn’t avoid reinstalling the Win98SE operating system:
Currently, every time I try to boot up the computer, I get the following error message: I am presented with a blue screen plain message telling me "Error loading Explorer.exe. You must reinstall Windows” and was presented with an OK button. When that was clicked, my computer always shuts down.
Currently, I am only able to access the computer through Safe mode and can’t communicate over the Internet so I am now having to work through a borrowed computer until I reinstall my operating system.
However, at present, along with the preceding operating system problems that I mentioned having, the following finally occurred and convinced me that I couldn’t avoid reinstalling the Win98SE operating system:
Currently, every time I try to boot up the computer, I get the following error message: I am presented with a blue screen plain message telling me "Error loading Explorer.exe. You must reinstall Windows” and was presented with an OK button. When that was clicked, my computer always shuts down.
Currently, I am only able to access the computer through Safe mode and can’t communicate over the Internet so I am now having to work through a borrowed computer until I reinstall my operating system.
Thank you for the specs rsuess1
Will you lose many files? You can save these files.
As you have another computer there with a cdrom drive you could use this drive as it has an ide cable and power that matches the ide and power on your hdd. You could slave this corrupted drive to that cdrom. And the be able to access your files as it is no longer using windows .
To do this simply unpower both machines. Screw driver to uncrew it from case.. Using a flat nosed pliers pull out both ide and power cables from hdd and cd rom noting which way they face... Look on the rear see a small white or blue pin, move it using tweezers pull it up and put it onto the 2nd position, if u look on top of the hdd there is a diagram showing the positons, then plug in the ide and power cable at the cdrom just let your hdd hang.
Now power in the mains again and boot up. This computer will wait a bit and then detect your drive as found new hardware instead of the cdrom drive.
It should be now called D drive.
You open this and save off your files run a defrag or chkdsk onit.
Format it too. Then simply reverse the operation unpowering first as this is very important.
Best of Luck with I know you have been plugging away at this for sometime.
Regards Merete
Will you lose many files? You can save these files.
As you have another computer there with a cdrom drive you could use this drive as it has an ide cable and power that matches the ide and power on your hdd. You could slave this corrupted drive to that cdrom. And the be able to access your files as it is no longer using windows .
To do this simply unpower both machines. Screw driver to uncrew it from case.. Using a flat nosed pliers pull out both ide and power cables from hdd and cd rom noting which way they face... Look on the rear see a small white or blue pin, move it using tweezers pull it up and put it onto the 2nd position, if u look on top of the hdd there is a diagram showing the positons, then plug in the ide and power cable at the cdrom just let your hdd hang.
Now power in the mains again and boot up. This computer will wait a bit and then detect your drive as found new hardware instead of the cdrom drive.
It should be now called D drive.
You open this and save off your files run a defrag or chkdsk onit.
Format it too. Then simply reverse the operation unpowering first as this is very important.
Best of Luck with I know you have been plugging away at this for sometime.
Regards Merete
ASKER
Merete, I thank you for your input. I entered my last post as a courtesy to you so you could understand that my problem has shifted from the original audio problems to the need to reinstall my operating system. And, hopefully, the will solve my original audio problems. I have been taking steps to backup my data and won't be too bad off from that standpoint. Currently, I am waiting for the response from BillDL so that I don't botch that reinstallation.
Bob
Bob
oh thats ok thanks
here is a full guide to How to reinstall Windows 98
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=250928
regards Merete
here is a full guide to How to reinstall Windows 98
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=250928
regards Merete
Hi Bob
PREPARATION SECTION - BACKUPS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1. Registry Backups.
====================
Questions 1 and 2:
------------------
All of the program settings stored in the registry can be recreated. Some will be created as you install the applications and programs, while others are then added as you configure the user options. In mentioning this topic, I was really indicating that a fresh reinstallation can be made slightly less time-consuming and laborious by exporting .REG files from the registry that could be imported into the fresh registry.
You mention exporting a FULL and complete registry to a file just in case there were some settings from the old registry that you might need to retrieve later. Although this IS possible, using a couple of utility programs that enable you to load a .REG file or either of the files that make up the registry (system.dat and user.dat) and view the contents as though you were using REGEDIT, it would probably be even more laborious picking out the bits you needed rather than doing so from regedit before wiping the drive.
I frequently compare or view old .REG files that I have exported from my registries at various stages. For instance, perhaps I recall a particular file association that I had on a previous system that has long since been wiped, or maybe I had a registry modification that I have since forgotten about, etc. It is never be a bad idea to export the registry to a .REG or .TXT file, and copy system.dat and user.dat if you do a lot of tinkering like me, but in general a full registry export is (a) a large file that is best viewed in a plain text editor that can handle such large files (b) gobbledegook unless you are hunting very specifically for a setting.
At the end of this comment I will provide a list of things that I personally would make copies of. Perhaps you will never need them, but it's usually the case that you clear out all the junk pieces of piping, wire, old fittings, etc from your attic, and then have a need for them a week later.
2. DUN (Dial-Up-Networking)
==========================
Questions 3 and 4:
------------------
Copying out the *.DUN file from the Dial-Up Networking folder in My Computer will not actually set up your Dial-Up Connectivity completely and from scratch again, but I have used it as a quick way to recreate SOME of the settings for standard modem and broadband connections where one or more has been changed through meddling. In your case (with cable connection), it would be best to create the connection again by running the setup CD issued by your ISP. Sometimes the ISP's online help provides good notes with screenshots that allow you to create the settings manually, but there may be extra resources on a distributed CD that need to be installed to complete the setup. Don't waste your money and time on the phone asking for settings, just ask if they can post you the setup CD. Once again, there is no harm in actually keeping the *.DUN file as part of your backups.
Note: If you do a file search for all files named *.dun it isn't going to find your Dial-Up Networking file anywhere until you actually copy out the icon from the Dial-Up Networking folder to another place. Up to that point, it isn't actually a file, but the copying out acts like an "export to file" action. The Dial-Up Networking "folder" isn't actually a physical folder, it's just a reserved space where a graphical representation is created to allow you to access settings. In fact, a *.DUN file is just a text-based file like an .INF or .INI configuration file laid out like this when opened in Notepad:
[Entry]
; the "general" tab of dun icon's properties
Entry_Name=As_Shows_For_Ic
Import_Name=As_Shows_For_I
; settings under the "Multilink" tab
Multilink=no
[Phone]
; General tab "use dialling code" left unticked
Dial_As_Is=yes
Phone_Number=Number_Used_T
[Device]
Type=isdn
; The "connect using" field in the "General" tab
Name=Whatever_It_Shows_In_
; The settings shown by the "Configure" button
Settings_Size=126
Settings=Very_Long_Hex_Num
[Server]
; The settings under the "Server" tab
; of the dun's properties
Type=PPP
SW_Compress=no
PW_Encrypt=no
Network_Logon=no
SW_Encrypt=no
Negotiate_NetBEUI=no
Negotiate_IPX/SPX=no
Negotiate_TCP/IP=yes
[TCP/IP]
; The settings from the "TCP/IP Settings" button
; in the "Server" tab of the dun's properties
Specify_IP_Address=no
Specify_Server_Address=no
IP_Header_Compress=no
Gateway_On_Remote=yes
3. The "My Documents" Folder in Windows
==========================
Questions 5, 6 and 7
--------------------
It is, as you have surmised, created as "C:\My Documents" by Windows. IF another user is added AND the option has been accepted to create separate work areas for the original default user and the new user, then each user would have their own "My Documents" folder (plus desktop, start menu, favorites, etc), which would be:
C:\Windows\Profiles\User_0
C:\Windows\Profiles\User_0
etc.
It IS possible to drag and drop (MOVE) your "My Documents" folder into another folder, and this is normally then reflected in the registry where details of all the "User Shell Folder" paths are stored. Utilities like "TweakUI" allow you to do this through their interface for the "My Documents" folder (and also other folders). Although it isn't really necessary for the "My Documents" folder, other "special folders" may have to be moved elsewhere using a utility. I can only assume that at some point in the past you (a) moved the folder manually OR (b) moved it using some utility has done this without you remembering it.
If you format your C: Drive, the "E:\My Documents" folder will remain intact. The new registry will create a new default C:\My Documents folder.
Now, there ARE some minor issues with the "E:\My Documents" folder, and this is due to the fact that there will be a hidden file in the root of the E:\My Documents folder that tell it what icon to display, and this in turn tells it how to behave. Even after formatting the C: Drive, where it would create a NEW C:\My Documents folder, your old one on E: would still show that different icon the same as your new one on C: will show. This is less than ideal when you are navigating around your system moving and copying files and folders after a fresh install, so you should remove the hidden files that give it these characteristics.
From DOS, you will see this hidden "Desktop.ini" file if you type the proper commands to take you into that folder, and then list or show details that include "hidden" files.
From the C:\> Prompt:
attrib e:\mydocu~1\*.*
Changing to the E: drive and then into the My Documents folder:
e:
cd mydocu~1
attrib *.*
This will list ALL files in the ROOT of (ie. not in any sun-folders of) the E:\My Documents folder, and the results would resemble:
E:\My Documents>attrib *.*
A SH DESKTOP.INI C:\mydocu~1\desktop.ini
A = Archived, R = Read-Only, S = System, H = Hidden.
Alternatively, just list ONLY those files with the "hidden" and "system" attributes there:
dir /on /ahs e:\mydocu~1
If you have ever "customised this folder" from the "Folder Options" dialog, then you may also have a file named "folder.htt" in the root of your "My Documents" folder.
The actual "My Documents" FOLDER will not have any special attributes, it is just the file(s) in the root that make it what it is.
My advice would be to rename and change this into a completely NEUTRAL folder with absolutely no special behaviour or attributes set against it BEFORE reinstalling Windows. That way you would never be left wondering which one was the proper "My Documents" folder, and there is no possibility of copying any hidden files across with contents if you choose to move the files and sub-folders from that folder onto the E: Drive to some other location. It would also mean that you could then deliberately move the NEW C:\My Documents folder from C: to E: (as you currentluy have it) without being told that there is already a folder of that name i the destination.
This renaming and deletion of files would have to be done from DOS right before you reinstalled, because renaming the folder and booting into Windows again will recreate the folder either in situ as before, or in the Windows default location. Windows MUST HAVE a "My Documents" folder to survive :-)
Type the following commands in sequence while booted into DOS to turn E:\My Documents into a plain old folder named "MYFILES" (assumed to be starting from the C:\> Prompt):
e:
chdir mydocu~1
attrib -h -r -s desktop.ini
attrib -h -r -s *.htt
del desktop.ini
del *.htt
chdir ..
attrib -h -r -s mydocu~1
rename mydocu~1 MYFILES
Note: cd can be used for the chdir (change directory) command, and ren can be used for the rename command.
Although your files and sub-folders on the E: Drive WOULD all have been safe if you formatted the C: Drive and installed Windows from scratch, you now have all your data in a completely standard folder that keeps them doubly safe.
Hint: to make the new folder appear at the top of any file listing (in Windows or DOS), add an underscore at the start of the name eg. _MYFILES.
Notes:
When renaming from full DOS, keep the names to 8 characters or less, and don't try and add spaces in the names. Try and keep the new name unique. For instance, if you already have other folders on E: with names starting with "My...", then rename it something like "DOC_BAK".
IF any other "hidden" files in the root of E:\My Documents show in your previous attrib query, then add them to the list of files from which to remove the attributes and then delete - as long as you are sure that they are not any of your own personal user files that you have made hidden. Use the abbreviated DOS name by which they would have been listed. Some programs create their own files, such as Nero (CD-RW software) may create a "playlist" file named "default.pls".
4. "Product Key" Issue
=======================
Question 8:
-----------
The "ProductKey" line in the registry stores the "CD Key" or "Licence Number" that is shown on genuine Windows software, and has to be entered during the installation to validate the fact that you have a licence. As we all know full-well, all you have to do is type "Windows 98 serial" in a google search, and you will get a list of all manner of unsavoury sites hosting commonly shared Windows 98 CD Keys. That's probably why there are so many die-hard Windows 98se users out there, ie. they are all using copied CD's and CD-Keys. It doesn't take long to try and input a handful of such Win98se numbers before you get a compatible match that allows the installation to complete.
"Recovery CD's" issued with Compaq, Packard Bell, Dell, etc, etc, are referred to as OEM (original equipment manufacturer) versions of the operating system. They nevertheless have a "CD Key", but reinstallations from those recovery CD's may or may not not ask for it. Better to know it now, than to wipe the drive and then be asked for it at reinstallation. There is usually a sticker with this Win98 licence number on the case side of OEM computers that came preinstalled with Win98 and furnished recovery cd's only.
INSTALLATION SECTION
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Question 9. - Capacity Issue, and Need to Resize Partitions?
--------------------------
>>> "All my other installation files for any other applications I have kept on the E: drive and for the present I don't intend to reinstall these". <<<
I fully agree with this. The best thing you can do is establish what programs and applications you CURRENTLY have installed, and decide which ones you WILL reinstall. You, like me, have probably installed loads of programs assuming them to be very useful at the time, and then hardly used them thereafter.
For those that you have deemed "essential", you will usually be able to find out the storage area needed for the different types of install types ofered by each of these applications (eg. Typical, Compact, Run From CD, etc) either from Readme files on the installation CD or from the vendors' websites.
Here was the state of your drives when you created the MSINFO32 report.
Windows-managed swap file on drive C (3,376 MB free)
Available space on drive C: 3,372 MB of 8,134 MB
Available space on drive D: 12,020 MB of 36,206 MB
Available space on drive E: 5,919 MB of 12,851 MB
Because the "Swap File" (virtual memory) is set to be handled by Windows, it shows as having all the free space on the C: Drive at its disposal. You will ALWAYS need an overhead for this Virtual Memory (ie. the overspill from your 384 MB of system memory), but it's not an exact science quoting an optimum free space required. Opinions vary on this. The classic sign of not having sufficient free space for the Swap File is Windows slowing down and freezing up (momentarily or requiring a reboot) when doing very memory-intensive tasks like copying very large folders.
With programs like Paint Shop Pro, you can create new folders on other drives, and set them to handle temporary files (cache) while the application is in use. For example, in PsP you can set the "Undo Cache" to either a maximum amount of hard drive space OR to a set number of Undo's per open image. I have mine configured with no limit, because I have plenty of hard drive space and frequently mess up images where I have to go back through the undo stages to where I messed up. There is nothing to stop you from setting this to a new folder on D: and keeping the overheads on C: down.
Similarly, when you install Win98 freshly again and choose to relocate your "My Documents" folder to the D: Drive (or wherever), you can then create a new folder eg. "D:\Autorecover" and use MS Office's user options to set this as the folder where it will create autorecover documents while using Office.
So, you had 3,372 MB (3.3 GB) of free space on C: , but that was with Office 2000 installed to the D: Drive. While I always advocate installing MS Office to the C: Drive, doing things like the above are retrospective changes that DON'T interfere with the functionality of Office, and they are easy enough to restore back to the default program settings.
The same goes for relocating your Outlook Express folders, your Favorites, the Address Book, etc to new folders on the D: Drive. Doing this doesn't improve efficiency or anything like that, it just means that you can format the C: Drive and reinstall Windows any time you want while still keeping these data backups unaffected. Upon reinstalling all the applications though, you obviously then have to go into the settings again and tell it what folders to use.
HINT:
MS Office should be just about the first application to reinstall after a fresh Windows installation - following on from the motherboard chipset drivers. When it comes time to reinstall, ALWAYS opt for the "CUSTOM" install option. This way you can choose to install ONLY the components and related support that YOU know you use and need. If a component you are choosing NOT to install is dependent on another component, then you will be informed of this and can include it again or exclude the dependent component if you know that you don't need that either. It will give brief descriptions of each component when you select it. You don't need the help files in French or Swahili, so don't install them. Are you likely to use any of the additional PowerPoint templates and backgrounds? Are you likely to encounter any Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheets, or Corel Wordperfect 5.x files for which you would need to have text import filters installed? What about MS Outlook? I don't use it, so I don't install it. You can DRASTICALLY reduce the required hard drive space by carefully choosing only what you need.
The same goes for reinstalling WINDOWS itself. Choose the "Custom" option and don't install Additional Screensavers, Themes, etc.
*** What I would do ***
---------------
Copy the "win98" folder from the Windows 98 SE CD to a new folder on one of your extra partitions (you would probably choose E:) and run setup from there after booting to a Win98se boot floppy. In MY case, I copy "win98" to a folder named F:\WIN98SE. It's easy enough to remember, ie. Boot to the floppy, change drive to F: , change directory to WIN98SE, change directory to "win98", and type SETUP. I also specify options that make the installation faster and less laborious:
SETUP /m /ie /im /iv /IW
Although it is very easy to copy the "win98" folder from the CD to the new folder on the spare partition from DOS, on a FRESH drive I usually just install Win98se from CD, THEN copy the "win98" folder to the extra partition. Once Windows is installed, I THEN change the registry value that tells Windows that it was installed from F:\WIN98SE\win98 and NOT from the CD.
Copy the MS Office 2000 CD(s) to new folder(s) on your D: Drive and then launch setup from there. It is a lot faster, and if a component of feature is set to "Install on First Use", then it will find and install it without prompting for the CD. You have PLENTY room on your D: Drive, so I would use that to store the setup source folders for all these large applications like MS Office, PsP 9, IE 6 SP1, etc.
You say >>> "I hope I haven’t underestimated the size of those programs when installed" <<<
The only way to find out is to try it out and see.
Question 10 -
Installations of DirectX, IE6, etc and knowing when to install?
--------------------------
If you look at the above comments, I advise you to always choose the "CUSTOM" installation option. With particular reference to your confusion over prior advice given, perhaps this will clarify matters:
Windows 98se installs Internet Explorer version 5 by default.
The "custom" setup option does NOT give you the option of ommitting IE or OE, but you can UNTICK the "Internet Explorer Tools" component, because updated versions will be installed later with IE6 anyway. You can leave out the "Windows Address Book" from the Windows installation, because Office 2000 gives the option to install this.
Remember that, each time components are updated, backups are stored on the C: Drive that allow the older versions to be restored if the program that updated them was uninstalled. The objective here is to save clutter by thinking ahead.
MS Office 2000 will install only a slightly higher version of IE5 than Win98se if allowed to do so. Unfortunately, using the "Custom" install option does NOT allow you to control whether or not it will install Internet Explorer and Outlook Express. There is SOME control over "web-type" components eg. I use Frontpage 2002, so I don't install Frontpage 2000 during the Office setup or FP 2002 would just create a load of backups to clutter up my drive.
To deliberately exclude IE (and therefore OE) from the Office 2000 installation, you have to use the "MS Office Custom Installation Wizard". This comes as part of the Office 2000 Resource Kit, and the custom installation wizard is a single standalone program file. The idea is that, after copying the Office 2000 CD to a folder on the partition from where you will install it, you then run the custom installation wizard and point it to DATA1.MSI in this folder. It loads all the available install options and you just step through the dialogs ticking and unticking what you want to install, and what you don't. You are asked to specify an output file (it creates an *.MST file) at the outset and, at the end, it allows you to save this file to the same folder as DATA1.MSI. These are your custom setup instructions, and you then just open the file SETUP.INI in that same folder, and change the [MST] section to reflect the name of your custom setup file. It sounds complicated, but it is VERY easy, and all you have to do to install with these options is just run SETUP.EXE normally.
That's the way I do it, but I have a feeling you might find this an extra complication. It is easy enough for me to create a custom *.MST file for someone else to use with the same version of Office.
As far as DirectX is concerned, this would be the next update I would install. Win98se installs version 6, but you should really update it to version 8.1 BEFORE you install any other applications and utilities that are likely to install some in-between version. Likely candidates are Motherboard Chipset Driver CD, CD-Burning applications, and practically any multimedia utility of driver setup package. It WON'T usually install DirectX automatically, but more often shows it as a separate option that you can select with others, or that you can install independently. My advice is DON'T install whatever DirectX version it would install, because it updates a LOT of system files and these new versions will then have to be updated again when you install DirectX 8.1 from this download:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/win98/Install/8.1/W98Me/EN-US/DX81eng.exe
Question 11 - FDISK
-------------------
**** DO NOT USE FDISK to FORMAT the Drive **** !!
FDISK is used to destroy and recreate PARTITIONS. If you use it, you will lose ALL the data on ALL your partitions.
FORMATTING the C: Drive is what you seek to achieve.
To do so is very simple:
- Boot to the Win98se boot floppy
- Type the command FORMAT C: and press <Enter>
- Accept the prompts
- Press <Enter> when it asks you to name a "Volume Label".
The drive is then wiped clean of data, but the other partitions are unaffected.
You have outlined what to do with the Win98se boot floppy accurately, EXCEPT that you don't have to MOVE to any other drive to run the FORMAT C: command.
The boot floppy should stop at the A:\> Prompt, and the Format command is immediately available for use without changing to any other drive. Just type the command.
>>> "Place the installation Window 98 SE CD in the H: drive and type Win98\setup <enter>" <<<
This may or may not work. Some boot floppies allow you to just type SETUP and they will find it on the CD, while others require that you change drive to the CD and then type the setup command. Here's the sequence of commands I would enter after the boot floppy stopped at A:\>
H:
cd win98
setup
*** Remove the floppy when prompted ***
If it is left in, then the reboots discussed below will just find the floppy again.
Question 12 - Drivers and "New Hardware" Detection
--------------------------
When Windows 98 SE is installing, it will reboot several times. Each time it will configure something new, and may detect new hardware even at the first reboot. On motherboards that PRECEDE 1998, the drivers for the MOTHERBOARD chips, etc, are normally found on the Win98se CD and installed automatically.
Although Win98se does have very basic drivers on the CD for SOME additional hardware like older add-on Sound Cards and Graphics Cards, and MAY install these automatically, generally it WON'T for anything other than the most popular add-on cards around when Win98se was released. In this case, you will see the "Found New Hardware" detection dialog and it will usually stop and ask you to click "OK" to allow it to search for suitable drivers.
If you clicked "OK", then it will normally search on Floppy Drives and the Drive from which Windows is being installed (ie. your CD's Drive Letter). Note: The drive letter for the CD will be back to the normal one rather than bumped up by one letter while booted to the boot floppy.
The caveat here is that it is not always clear what kind of device it has detected, although you usually see some description like "multimedia device" or "graphics" so that you have an idea if it has found your sound card or graphics card.
IF you have already copied the setup files for the device drivers to your partition containing the source setup files for other programs, then you can direct it to look specifically in that folder by browsing to it using the drop-down arrow. You'll know what I mean when you see this.
There is also a "Have Disk" button if you find yourself in another stage of the detection, and this serves the same purpose of telling it where to look for the drivers.
I suggest allowing the process to first search the Windows CD (untick the "Floppy" box) and, when that fails, just use the "Look for drivers in a specified place" option and browse to the original setup CD for your sound card (or other device).
If you have a folder on one of your partitions containing more recent driver files, then direct it to that instead.
NOTE:
Downloaded driver packages come as either self-extracting .exe files, or as .zip files.
For the hardware detection to find suitable drivers in the specified location, it is looking for an *.INF FILE that matches some of the details about the device that it has read from it. If the package still exists as an .exe or .zip file, then it WILL NOT find suitable drivers where you specify. A supplied driver CD that came with a device will nearly always have such an .INF file, and will pick it up and show it in a panel in the hardware wizard's dialog, whereupon you just click "OK" or "Finish", and it does the rest.
In the event of it not finding a usable driver (eg. the package is in .exe or .zip format), you should just cancel the hunt for drivers and allow Windows to finish setting itself up. Once complete, you can then:
(a) find the driver package .exe file and double click on it to install the drivers
(b) find and unzip the package .zip file (you would need to install WinZip) and look for a setup.exe or install.exe in the unpacked contents.
If an unpacked .zip file does not contain either a setup or install.exe file, BUT DOES contain one or more *.INF files, then you should do this:
Right-Click My Computer > "Properties"
Device manager > click on the device showing ? or other symbol.
Click "Properties" and open the "Driver" tab of the properties dialog.
Click "Update Driver" and then direct it to look "in a specified place".
Tell it to look in the folder just unpacked from the zip file, and it will find the .INF file to allow it to install the driver.
It's difficult to know in advance exactly what will happen with your computer, but the above will give you an idea of what to expect and what to do.
Question 13 - System File Version Conflicts
--------------------------
>>> "Since all data has been wiped off of C: drive, are glitches such as incorrect msvcrt.dll version avoided?" <<<
Not entirely, because some drivers were written for Win95 as well as Win98, but weren't current as Win98se came out. The writers may have packaged a Win98 version with it to update a Win95 system, but that file may be older than the Win98se one currently on your system. The installation process would nevertheless TRY and overwrite your EXISTING file with the NEW but OLDER one.
If you WERE to go ahead and allow the older version to be installed, the current newer one would be backed up and could be restored from the backup folder used by the "Version Conflict Manager" later, so it's usually not a catastrophe.
Here's how to avoid this potential problem.
IF you are shown a message that resembles:
"File <filename.ext> being copied is an older version than the one currently installed.
It is recommended that you keep the existing version.
Do you wish to keep it?".
Read the dialog carefully, because some are badly worded. Just make sure that you KEEP the EXISTING file version that is already installed. IF the driver doesn't work and blames it on an incorrect version of the system file, then you KNOW that it is the driver's problem and not Windows, and that you should try another driver.
The same goes for uninstalling drivers.
If prompted to "remove the following shared system file that is no longer in use" DO NOT believe what it says, and KEEP the file.
Question 14 and 15
------------------
Your fresh install will have ALL the functionality of the previous installation, but with the additional benefits that it has a registry free of old erroneous or redundant settings (including hardware settings), will heve less of a mish-mash of system file versions and therefore less potential for version conflicts, and that it will run a lot faster with less crashes.
Installing more recent applications and programs will invariably need to update some system files including virtual device drivers, but they will be doing so on a less cluttered system where it should have kept a good track of what files were replaced.
Personally, I think it is a good idea to keep a close eye on what things were added or modified after each installation. Applications usually create installation logs, and these can either be in the program's folder (where it is used for instructions during any subsequent UNinstallation), or in the C:\Windows\TEMP folder. It is also quite important to delete all temporary files in that folder BEFORE installing new programs.
There are utilities designed to monitor changes made by installations, but I am now so familiar with my systems that I tend to be able to spot the changes quite easily. I always export a BEFORE and AFTER .REG file, and usually do a side-by-side comparison with a program named "Beyond Compare" by http://www.scootersoftware.com.
You can run SCANREGW.EXE from the Start Menu's "Run" option and force it to back up the registry and the files system.ini and win.ini to a new .CAB file in the folder C:\Windows\SYSBCKUP before installing new programs. This can then be restored from DOS is necessary by running the command SCANREG /RESTORE and choosing that .CAB file if something goes wrong.
Utility programs like "InstallWatch" can be useful:
http://www.epsilonsquared.com/anonymous/InstallWatchPro25.exe
http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_description/0,fid,22797,00.asp
http://ftp.pcworld.com/pub/new/utilities/InstallWatchPro25.exe
Those are old links for the version I used, but may still be live.
Question 16 to 21 - Motherboard Chipset Drivers
--------------------------
Your "Dell Dimension Resource CD" contains a message :
>>>
"Driver restoration is intended to be performed under the direction of qualified support personnel" ..."with detailed knowledge" ... "contact the appropriate support group".
<<<
So they must mean business.
Not really, what they are giving is a disclaimer and a way to make extra money from support telephone calls at premium rate. Without chipset drivers, your system won't run properly, and because they are enshrouding this area with such great mystery, they haven't made things very user-friendly, have they? (SEE BELOW)
The Resource CD autoruns to a Menu when inserted into a Windows Computer that has autorun enabled for the CD. There are various options, and I have provided details of this later on where I have provided links to online documentation under the section :
"Using the Dell Dimension ResourceCD to Reinstall Drivers"
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/drivers.htm
What they meant by the warning was that you should have some idea of the TYPE and MODEL of the device for which you are trying to install drivers, because the Resource CD contains drivers for a RANGE of computer models with slightly different specifications.
>>> "Do you want to see TreePrint applied to that Resource CD?" <<<
Yes, that might be very helpful. I may be able to pick out some typically named folders and files used for the chipset drivers, where you could copy them out and install them without having to run the Resource CD.
*** VERY IMPORTANT NOTE ***
==========================
Your motherboard is based on a standard 440BX chipset (comprising the Intel 82371AB/EB and 82443BX chips). Windows 98SE has ALL the resources on the CD to install basic versions of the required chipset drivers WITHOUT any user intervention. I am quite sure that you will see it finding the hardware (probably on the 2nd reboot) and installing these drivers without prompting you to have it search for the drivers as long as the CD is still in the drive.
>>> "...installing the chipset drivers immediately after step 2 (hardware drivers) often resolves unidentified hardware (! or X) in Device Manager". <<<
Just as an example of what I was referring to by "will not function properly". You have an NVidia RIVA TNT graphics CARD. The basic motherboard chipset drivers installed by Win98SE WILL NOT install a driver for this device, but the chipset drivers are required to install the support for the interface slot into which it is mounted along with the other PCI Cards.
>>> "The computer is a Dell Dimension XPS T500 and I have my service tag number". <<<
The following link takes you to the "Drivers and Downloads" page for the "XPS Txxx" range of computers, where you have to check that each driver is compatible with the "XPS T500"
http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/devices.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&SystemID=DIM_PNT_P03_XPS_T___&os=W98&osl=EN
But if you enter your "Service Tag" on the following page, it will isolate the download links ONLY to your specific model:
http://support.dell.com/support/index.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
Here are the drivers you will need, unless you choose the option of using the Resource CD (discussed near the end of this document).
Chipset
-------
NOTE: Although Win98se will identify the motherboard and install its own chipset drivers, I RECOMMEND that you install these Intel chipset drivers:
Useful Utility to identify your motherboard chipset.
It SHOULD identify it as "440BX AGPset". IF IT DOESN'T, then DON'T install the chipset "Inf Installer" linked to next.
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/8264/eng/ChipUtil.exe
Intel Chipset Drivers for 440 family of boards including the 440BX AGP chipset for Win98SE:
This utility installs INF files that inform the operating system how to properly configure the chipset for specific functionality such as USB and AGP.
Version 3.20.1008 5/6/2002
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/4241/a08/infinst_enu.exe
Readme:
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/4241/ENG/readme.txt
Release Notes:
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/4241/ENG/Release_320.pdf
Just double-click on infinst_enu.exe once downloaded, follow the prompts, and reboot.
Graphics
--------
NVIDIA RIVA TNT Display Driver for Dell version 4.11.01.0231 dated 10/05/1999
(yours currently has version 4.12.01.0377 dated 2/8/2000 installed).
http://ftp.us.dell.com/video/M64W98.EXE
ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/video/M64W98.EXE
Most recent driver release from nVidia.
It's a bit of overkill getting this version at 19.3 MB.
It is intended for very recent cards, but does cover your nVidia Riva TNT model also.
It supports DirectX version 9c, so if you chose to update your DirectX version to that, at least there would be support for it.
ForceWare Release 80 Version: 81.98 Release Date: December 21, 2005
http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/81.98/81.98_forceware_win9x_english.exe
ftp://download.nvidia.com/Windows/81.98/81.98_forceware_win9x_english.exe
Documentation:
nView 3.5 Desktop Manager User's Guide (Release 80)
http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/81.98/81.98_ForceWare_nView_User_Guide.pdf
Display Properties User's Guide (Release 80)
http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/81.98/81.98_ForceWare_Display_Property_User_Guide.pdf
Oldest driver linked to on the nVidia site for Windows9x (8.1 MB)
Version: 28.32 Release Date: April 26, 2002 (supports DirectX 8.1)
http://205.158.109.140/Windows/28.32/28.32_win9x.exe
ftp://205.158.109.140/Windows/28.32/28.32_win9x.exe
Full list of nVidia Driver archives here:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/win9x_archive.html
Audio
-----
Voyetra Turtle Beach 64 Voice A3D Montego II Sound Card Driver
For Dimension XPS Txxx, v. 1.0, A01
Version 4.05 Release Date 05/20/1999
http://ftp.us.dell.com/audio/TB2-405E.EXE
ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/audio/TB2-405E.EXE
(WARNING: Only for Windows 9x and NT - NOT for Windows ME or 2000).
Dell Installation Instructions
--------------------------
1. Download to desktop and double-click TB2-405E.EXE
2. A Self-Extractor window appears.
3. Leave the default "unzip to" field as is (C:\DELL\DRIVERS\R20109)
4. Click "UnZip".
If the folder doesn't exist, you'll be prompted to create one. Click Yes.
5. Follow the on-screen installation instructions in the window.
HTML Pop-Up With Install Now Button
1. The Dell Software Installation Documentation window appears.
2. Click the Install Now button. A File Download window appears.
3. Click Run this program from its current location and click OK.
The Security Warning window appears.
4. Click Yes. The InstallShield Wizard window appears.
5. Follow the on-screen instructions.
SEE ALSO: "Specific Notes about the Audio Driver" further on under the "Documentation" secton.
Speakers
--------
Altec Lansing ACS 495 speaker driver for Windows 98
Version 1.0, A01 Release Date: 06/12/1998
http://ftp.us.dell.com/audio/495_W98.EXE
ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/audio/495_W98.EXE
You need 2 x standard formatted blank floppy disks for this.
1. Insert your first blank floppy
2. Click on the downloaded file "495_W98.EXE"
2. You will be prompted with a "Disk Librarian" screen.
3. Click on "Setup".
4. Follow the instructions to create the floppies
5. Insert disk 1 in the floppy drive A:
6. View the Readme.txt file for instructions.
7. Double-Click on SETUP.EXE to install, and insert floppy No. 2 when prompted.
Installing from these floppies installs :
1. Audio Management Software
2. Specific USB Drivers
The "Audio Management Software" includes a new Control Panel icon and Start Menu shortcut to access the "Speaker Management Interface", and this may pop up periodically advising you of the status.
NOTE: If you disconnect the usb cable, the Interface is disabled and the speakers operate in standalone mode. In Standalone Mode, you can only adjust speaker volume etc from the speakers' physical controls, NOT from within Windows. The software "Speaker Management Interface" synchronises with the Windows Volume Control while it is enabled.
Network Interface Card (NIC)
--------------------------
Yours is identified as "NETGEAR FA311/312 PCI Adapter", although this is ambiguous as the Netgear Support page for downloads provides separate resources for FA311 and FA312, they both use the same driver.
http://kbserver.netgear.com/products/FA311.asp
http://kbserver.netgear.com/products/FA312.asp
Installation Guide (for FA311 and FA312):
http://kbserver.netgear.com/pdf/fa311_312_331_install_guide.pdf
Product Specifications:
http://kbserver.netgear.com/datasheets/fa311ps.pdf
http://kbserver.netgear.com/datasheets/fa312_datasheet.pdf
FA311 and FA312 Adapter Driver Version 1.8 For Windows:
ftp://downloads.netgear.com/files/F31XV18.zip
NOTE: This installs the same version as you currently have, ie. FA31xND3.SYS version 3.00.122.0 Dated 17 April 2001.
1. Unzip "F31XV18.zip" to its own folder on the desktop
2. Navigate to F31XV18\F31XV180\Ver 1.80\HELP.EXE and double-click on it
3. This shows help files including Frequently Asked Questions, compatibility, etc.
(also read the file F31XV18\F31XV180\Ver 1.80\HELP\WIN95_98\FAQ.TXT
4. Use the ARROW DOWN key to select Windows 98
5. An operating system-specific screen displays.
6. Follow the instructions to complete the installation.
(F5 Prints the instructions)
7. Press <ESC> to Close the DOS Help File window.
8. Delete the new folder that you created on your desktop or burn to CD.
*** IMPORTANT NOTES ***
REMOVE this card temporarily WHILE installing Windows 98.
Re-insert it while powered off AFTER Windows is installed, and then follow the instructions below (or as you will see when you double-click HELP.EXE and choose Windows 98).
It would be a wise idea to install "Client for Microsoft Networks" BEFORE inserting the NIC card ready for driver installation:
1. Insert the Win98se CD and hold the Shift key to stop it autorunning
2. Control Panel > Network > Add > Add Client > Add
3. Click on "Microsoft" in LEFT Pane
4. Click on "Client for Microsoft Networks" in the RIGHT pane
5. Cick "Have Disk" and browse to the "win98" folder of your Win98 CD
6. After it installs, remove the CD and Reboot
NOW power off, insert the NIC Card, and power on again.
1. Windows will detect a new "PCI Ethernet Controller" has been found.
2. If you have burned the drivers to CD or copied them to a floppy, then insert the disk and click on Next. If they are in a folder on your hard drive, just click Next.
3. The Add New Hardware Wizard window pops up.
4. Select "Search for best driver" option and click on Next.
5. Select the drive or browse to the folder containing the driver files, and click on Next.
6. The next window should indicate that the "NETGEAR FA311/FA312 PCI Adapter" has been found.
7. Click on Next when Windows prompts to obtain its driver from that source.
8. It will be looking for the "FA31x.DOS" file.
9. You will be asked to insert the Windows 98 CD-Rom unless you installed Windows 98 from a folder on your spare partition.
10. When asked where to find the "CHOOSUSR.DLL", browse to the "win98" folder of the Win98 CD or the folder on the hard drive containing the .CAB files.
11. Drivers should install.
12. Click on Finish at the last "Add New Hardware Wizard" window.
13. Reboot when prompted, remembering to first remove the floppy if that is where you were installing the drivers from.
14. A 2nd reboot might be required to finalize settings.
Peripherals
===========
Epson C82 Inkjet Printer:
-------------------------
Driver version 6.3cA for Windows 9x and ME including Status Monitor 3:
ftp://ftp.epson.com/drivers/epson10427.exe (4.75 MB)
Epson Web-To-Page Utility v1.1aA for Win98, ME, 2000, XP.
This utility automatically adjusts web pages to fit your printed page. Select the "Print" button in the Web-To-Page toolbar integrated into your Internet Explorer browser to start printing. Requires IE 5.5 or later.
ftp://ftp.epson.com/drivers/epson11667.exe
Dell P990 Monitor
-----------------
(Dell Trinitron UltraScan P990 19" CRT??)
Monitors don't actually require a DRIVER, in the true sense of the expression, but Monitor Drivers usually comprise:
1. An *.INF file - creates the correct registry settings for the monitor and sets it as the default monitor
2. An *.ICM file - Creates a colour profile that helps to get the best colour rendition.
Windows 98se copies a LOT of its own .INF files to C:\Windows\INF folder, and that is the FIRST place the "Found New Hardware Wizard" will look as it finds new hardware. In YOUR case, it should find the following lines in the file MONITOR10.INF, identify the Monitor, and create the correct hardware settings in the registry for it.
[Manufacturer]
%DELL%=DELL
[DELL]
%P990%=P990.Install, Monitor\DEL50DD
[P990.Install]
DelReg=DEL_CURRENT_REG
AddReg=P990.AddReg, 1600, DPMS
[P990.AddReg]
HKR,"MODES\1600,1200",Mode
[DEL_CURRENT_REG]
HKR,MODES
HKR,,MaxResolution
HKR,,DPMS
[1600]
HKR,,MaxResolution,,"1600,
Dell="Dell Computer Corp."
P990="Dell P990"
So, your monitor SHOULD be recognised as a "Dell P990". If it can't find the drivers, tell it to look in C:\Windows\INF and it should pick up on Monitor10.inf.
The problem with this is that it doesn't install the Colour Profile file (P990.ICM) to C:\Windows\System\COLOR because Win98se doesn't have that colour profile amongst its available resources.
Here's the official Dell download that DOES:
http://ftp.us.dell.com/monitors/DELLMON.EXE
Just double-click on DELLMON.EXE, leave the default "Unzip to" folder set as "C:\Dell\Drivers\monitor",
Utilities
---------
Dell 32 Bit Diagnostics Utility v1045
http://ftp.us.dell.com/diags/DD1045.exe
ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/diags/DD1045.exe
Dell ZZtop Utilities (NOT entirely sure about this one)
Download will create a DOS boot floppy with the ZZtop hard drive re-image utility.
This version is compatable with Dell Snap Restore.
http://ftp.us.dell.com/utility/ZZ-DOS.exe
ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/utility/ZZ-DOS.exe
User Guides
-----------
Dell Users Guide Viewer:
Browser application which displays all Dell system documents installed on the user's system. It is intended to be used with system-specific HTML documents which are available through the Dell Documents section of this website.
http://ftp.us.dell.com/utility/6577DENG.exe
ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/utility/6577DENG.exe
Documents and Manuals:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/
Right-click > "Save TARGET As" to download the following Adobe Acrobat documents:
Getting Started Sheet
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/9029d.pdf
Dell Dimension Systems Setup Guide
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/setup.pdf
Dell Dimension XPS Txxx and Txxxr Systems Reference and Troubleshooting Guide
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/8868d4.pdf
Standard Windows Help File (*.chm file):
1. Right-Click > Save Target As > Save "xpstrhlp.chm" to C:\Windows\System
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/xpstrhlp.chm
2. Right-Click > Save Target As > Save "popup.ocx" to C:\Windows\System
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/popup.ocx
3. Start Menu > RUN option > and type regsvr32 popup.ocx > Click OK
4. This will register the ActiveX component that allows popup windows from within the help file.
5. Create a shortcut on your desktop to C:\Windows\System\xpstrhlp
Using the Dell Dimension ResourceCD to Reinstall Drivers
==========================
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/drivers.htm
NOTICE: The Dell Dimension ResourceCD contains drivers for devices that might not be installed in your computer. DO NOT install device drivers UNLESS you first identify the specific driver intended for the hardware installed in your computer.
1. Start the computer
If you have not initially installed the Dell Dimension ResourceCD application program, proceed to the next step. If you have previously installed the application program, proceed to step 6.
2. Insert the Dell Dimension ResourceCD into the CD Drive.
3. The ResourceCD Installation application program automatically starts.
4. Follow the instructions on your screen.
5. When the "InstallShield" setup finishes, remove the CD and then click Finish to reboot.
6. After the system reboots, Insert the Dell Dimension ResourceCD again.
7. The Welcome Dell System Owner screen appears.
8. Click Next.
9. Change the language in the Language list located in the upper-right corner
10. Select the model of your computer in the System Model list.
11. Select the operating system
12. Select the type of device in the Device Type list.
13. Select Drivers in the Topic list.
14. Click the name of the driver that you want to reinstall.
15. Follow the instructions on the screen.
Specific Notes about the Audio Driver
--------------------------
I notice that there are references to "Yamaha Audio" when the user guides discuss the Dimension XPS Txxx computer. There are two possibilities:
1. The on-board Yamaha sound chip that is standard on Intel 440BX motherboards was removed on your specific motherboard model in favour of an add-on card
OR
2. The chip is still on the board, but has been disabled.
The following page tells you how to boot into the CMOS Setup Screen and how to navigate around:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm
In particular, the "Advanced" tab > "Peripheral Configuration" sub-menu shows you the setting that Enables or Disables an on-board sound chip so that you can use an add-on card.
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm#peripheral_configuration_submenu
(By the way, don't disable "Legacy USB Support" as shown in the settings on this page. That should be Enabled).
All settings in the CMOS Setup Screen are stored regardless of whether you wipe the hard drive and reinstall Windows. The settings are on a small chip that is powered by the small coin-cell battery on the motherboard, so this shouldn't be of any concern UNLESS you happen to see mention of a Yamaha device with problems in Device Manager. It is REMOTELY possible that (if there s a Yamaha chip on the board) that it was disabled from WITHIN Windows, in which case you can either disable it there again, or from the CMOS Setup Screen.
Incidentally, I see that Dell recommend specific slots for specific add-on cards:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/specs.htm#default_dell_installed_expansion_card_placement
Although it seems to refer only to when an "Optional TV Tuner Card or SwapBox" is installed, but it would pay to check that your cards are here:
PCI Slot 1 NETGEAR FA311/312 PCI Adapter
PCI Slot 3 Montego II Sound Card
The first PCI Slot should be identified by a number next to it on the motherboard.
RESTORING THE SYSTEM TO DELL DEFAULT
==========================
If this is the way you would prefer to go ie. a bog-standard original setup, then read the following page:
How do I use the Dell Reinstallation CD or the Dell Product Recovery CD for Windows 98 SE?
--------------------------
Good Screenshots:
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?DN=FA1034500
Determine Which CD You Have:
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?DN=FA1034500#step1
Use the CD:
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?DN=FA1034500#step3
Recover Hard Drive without Format
--------------------------
This option overwrites all of the Windows 98 SE system files, including the registry files.
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?DN=FA1034500#noformat
This option would be typically referred to as a "deltree and reinstall" because the c:\Program Files and the c:\Windows directories are deleted, but the data on the rest of the hard drive is unaffected (although MOST of the applications won't work properly with a new registry).
Format and Recover Hard Drive
--------------------------
This option will completely erase the contents of your hard drive and then will recover the Windows 98 operating system.
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?DN=FA1034500#format
All data files will be removed and you will need to reinstall all your software and applications. This is the most complete way to reinstall the operating system.
NOTE:
NONE of the reinstall options detailed on the pages above will reinstall drivers for Dell-specific devices such as video cards or sound cards. You need to install these from the Resource CD or their respective media.
PRINT THE FOLLOWING GUIDES
--------------------------
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/software_reinstall/en/index?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&SystemID=DIM_PNT_P03_XPS_T___&ServiceTag=&results=true&category=0&OperatingSystem=15
Select the guides to print, and then click the "Print Guides" button at the bottom of the page.
What video card is in my system?
--------------------------
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?DN=FA1038855
1. Start Menu > RUN Option > and type DEBUG > click OK
2. Type the command d c000:01 and press <enter>
3. It should show details to the right of the DOS Window
4. Type q and press <enter> to quit Debug
5. Close the DOS Window
Installing the NVIDIA TNT2 drivers for Win98 on my Dell Dimension from Resource CD
--------------------------
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?c=us&cs=19&DN=1032500&type=SRG&l=en&s=dhs
NOTE: Procedure depends on your version of Resource CD and whether the card is identified as nVidia Riva TNT or nVidia TNT2 M64 4xAGP.
Install Altec Lansing ACS495 speaker drivers for Win98 on Dell Dimension from Resource CD
--------------------------
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?c=us&cs=19&DN=1017358&type=SRG&l=en&s=dhs
Note: If you can't find the 2 ACS495 diskettes that shipped with your system, or were unable to make your backup disks from Dell Program Disk Maker, the drivers for the speakers are available from the Dell File Library via a file that will create 2 x floppy install disks (link given earlier).
Install Turtle Beach Montego II A3D sound card drivers for Win98 from Resource CD
--------------------------
EXCELLENT SCREENSHOTS!
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?c=us&cs=19&DN=1032638&type=SRG&l=en&s=dhs
NOTE: Procedure depends on your version of Resource CD, or whether you have a Turtle Beach Montego II CD.
Install from download (link given earlier):
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?c=us&cs=19&DN=1032638&type=SRG&l=en&s=dhs#Download
How to perform a "Typical" Installation of MS Office 2000 on Windows 98
--------------------------
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?c=us&cs=19&DN=1014474&type=SRG&l=en&s=dhs
NOTE: This shows the "typical" install option, but there are some good screenshots. I have previously recommended the "Custom" install option, and still do.
OTHER DOCUMENTATION
===================
Product documentation, manuals, specifications, and installation guides INDEX:
http://support.dell.com/support/systemsinfo/documentation.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
Online Reinstall Guide
----------------------
http://support.dell.com/us/en/kb/org/
Online Hints and Tips (hundreds of them):
http://service.dell.com/dell/
QUESTIONS CONTINUED
===================
Question 22 and 23 - Windows Update and Support
--------------------------
>>> Would Windows Update download and install updates covering the period from June 1999 to January 2006 without missing any needed updates?" <<<
What you should bear in mind is that a lot of the Windows Updates are "Cumulative", which is to say that they are superseded and made redundant as they are added to a roll-up update that "includes all previous hotfixes and updates". There are actually very few Windows Updates for Win98SE, and those that are listed when you run the scan option on the Windows Update page are usually the only ones you need. There is the odd "patch" that addresses very specific issues such as a problem with USB on computers with AMD processors and VIA chipsets, etc, but I cannot think of any such specific problems with your motherboard.
The thing about Windows Update, and the imminent cessation of support is that when you search Microsoft pages, the links are now mostly replaced by ones to Windows XP (or sometimes WinME), but won't provide links for Win98. If you do find a knowledgebase article, or one of the MS0x.xxx pages that discusses a security-related issue, you won't usually find a direct download link for Win98 or 98SE. You are usually told that you can only install the update by running Windows Update.
*** GOOD TIPS ***
=================
TIP No. 1.
----------
Install Internet Explorer 6 SP1 BEFORE going to Windows Update. That way, you won't have as many updates being listed, because they are already incorporated in IE6 SP1.
TIP No. 2
---------
Instead of downloading the IE6 SP1 download initialiser and then having it INSTALL all the components over an internet connection, there is a method to DOWNLOAD and SAVE the setup files so that you can install IE6 SP1 while you are offline. This method has the added benefit that you can choose ALL the operating systems, and download a package that would be suitable for Windows 98, or Windows ME, or Windows 2000, or Windows XP. It means a much larger download than would be performed if it was installing WHILE online, because the process checks your system and ONLY installs components that are NOT YET installed. Downloading and Saving all the setup files for all operating systems for a later offline install means that you shouldn't be missing any bits and pieces that a subsequent installation from your package might need to go online to fetch.
The Method?
This link usually allows you to download a FULL set of setup files for ALL OS's, but the link is often so painfully hard to load because it's probably choked with people doing the same thing:
http://downloads.planetmirror.com/pub/microsoft/ie/6.0sp1/ie60sp1.exe (77 MB)
I have used that download, but I prefer to grab my own. Download the following file:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/ie6sp1/finrel/6_sp1/W98NT42KMeXP/EN-US/ie6setup.exe
This is the file that would initialise the setup process online and start installing the required files over the Internet.
Create a new folder eg. C:\IE6SP1\INIT and copy "ie60sp1.exe" into it.
Create another folder named C:\IE6SP1\DOWNLOADED
Start Menu > RUN > and type the following command > click OK
You MUST USE THE EXACT syntax shown below, INCLUDING the quotation marks, and observing the spaces. Copy and paste (Ctrl + V) is the best option.
"C:\IE6SP1\INIT\ie6setup.e
This starts a new dialog on the License screen. Just choose "Accept" and click "Next".
The next screen will show a "Folder to download installation files" field with a "Browse" button. Browse to the folder C:\IE6SP1\DOWNLOADED.
Below this you will have 4 tick-boxes where you can choose your operating system:
Windows 98
Windows NT
Windows 2000 and XP
Windows Millenium
I am suggesting that you tick ALL of them to acquire the fullest installation package possible, but you might just prefer to download Win98 setup files only.
Click "Next" to start the download process.
If, for some reason the download process gets interrupted, you can resume the download process (as long as you haven't messed with the files in C:\IE6SP1\DOWNLOADED) by executing the same command used in the beginning, ie.
"C:\IE6SP1\INIT\ie6setup.e
Confusingly, the original setup initialiser has the same file name as the "ie6setup.exe", but the best idea would be to burn ONLY THE CONTENTS of the "DOWNLOADED" folder to a CD OR just MOVE that folder to one of your partitions and rename it something like E:\IE6SP1 where you can double-click "ie6setup.exe" to install the update.
ALWAYS REBOOT after installing ANY update - particularly IE6 SP1, and resist the temptation to install more than one update from a local source without a reboot in between. generally Windows Update knows what it is doing in this respect, and tells you the updates that require to be installed on their own because of this.
TIP No. 3
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Try and download a few of what I would consider to be IMPORTANT updates, and install them before running Windows Update. You can find them on the "Corporate Updates" site which doesn't automate Windows Update or scan your system:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/downloads/corporate.asp
OR, some of the older essential or important updates are linked to here:
http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=90
The first one I suggest installing is the "Windows 98 SE Shutdown Supplement". (You'll see my reasoning when you get to the 2nd point below).
Download and Install DirectX Version 8.1 for Windows 98 and ME:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/win98/Install/8.1/W98Me/EN-US/DX81eng.exe
I advise stopping with version 8.1 unless you encounter something that specifically requires a higher version. ONLY in that case, install version 9c:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/8/1/e/81ed90eb-dd87-4a23-aedc-298a9603b4e4/directx_9c_redist.exe
Updated FDISK patch to address an issue of false capacity reporting on drives larger than 63 GB:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/Win98/Update/8266R/W98/EN-US/263044USA8.EXE
Visual Basic Runtime version 6 SP5:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/vb60pro/Redist/sp5/WIN98Me/EN-US/vbrun60sp5.exe
IF you have any very old applications or utilities that might need old Visual Basic Riuntimes, there is no harm in copying versions 3 and 4 to your C:\Windows\System folder. If they are ever needed, then they will be used:
Visual Basic Runtime v3.0
http://www.karenware.com/progs/vbrun30.exe
Visual Basic Runtime v4.0 (16-bit and 32-bit versions)
http://www.karenware.com/progs/vbrun40.exe
Both are self-extracting .exe files.
Windows Installer Version 2:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/WindowsInstaller/Install/2.0/W9XMe/EN-US/InstMsiA.exe
Dial-Up Networking Version 1.4:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/win98SE/Update/17648/W98/EN-US/dun14-SE.exe
Windows Script Update version 5.6 for Windows 98, ME, and NT 4.0:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/c/9/4c9e63f1-617f-4c6d-8faf-c2868f670c1c/scr56en.exe
NOW run windows update after the last reboot.
TIP No. 4
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Grab a copy of the Windows Updates to KEEP, even though the process was done while online.
Once Windows Update completes, and it prompts you to reboot, RESIST the temptation to click the OK Button. There are 2 reasons:
1. You can open Windows Explorer while IE is still open, and copy the downloaded Windows Update .exe files from your C:\Windows\Temporary Internet Files out to a neutral folder before rebooting, when they would be lost. In some cases, the Internet Options are set to "Empty Temporary Internet Files folder when browser is closed". In fact, I advocate this setting if not already enabled.
2. Rebooting while there are open application Windows and while you are still online is a BAD idea. All it takes is a failed reboot due to a system hang, and one or more of those updates won't install properly. Click the option to "Reboot Later" (or similar button), and then CLOSE Internet Explorer. Disconnect from the Internet
TIP No. 5
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Because you are installing IE6 SP1 fairly soon after you have reinstalled Windows, I recommend that you now run the System File Checker. This utility uses a database of file versions as originally installed by Windows to determine if any files have been changed, or are missing. Although it SHOULD be updated by Windows Updates and installations such as MS Office, it isn't always accurate and can throw up some false alarms, causing you to restore an older file from the Windows CD.
Start Menu > RUN > and type SFC > click OK
Click the "Settings" button and set it to:
- Prompt for Backup
- Leave the "backup location" as C:\Windows\Helpdesk\SFC
- Overwrite existing log (if running SFC again change this to "append to log")
- Check for changed files AND deleted files
- Leave the default settings as they are under the "search criteria" and advanced" tabs.
- OK to close the "Settings" dialog
Main window > "Scan For Altered Files" > Start button.
Because you have it set to "Prompt" you when it finds an apparent anomaly, it will show details and 4 options:
- Update Verification Information
- Restore File
- Ignore
- Update verification Information for all deleted files
The last option will only show if its discovery is a "missing" file. An example of Windows inefficiency at updating this verification database is where I used Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup and uninstalled the optional "WinPopup" component. SFC decided to tell me that the file was missing, when in fact the database should really have been updated to reflect the intentional changes.
My advice is to choose the FIRST option so that it adds the CURRENT file versions, etc, to its database. IF you get to one like "SFC has detected that setupx.dll appears to be corrupted", then IGNORE this until you can find out what it really means. You can always run SFC again a second time. Just be careful when clicking the OK button to confirm what you want to do about a stop and prompt dialog, because it defaults to "restore file" and it's easy to just click OK.
----- END Of TIPS ---------
Bill
===== END of DOCUMENT =====
PREPARATION SECTION - BACKUPS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1. Registry Backups.
====================
Questions 1 and 2:
------------------
All of the program settings stored in the registry can be recreated. Some will be created as you install the applications and programs, while others are then added as you configure the user options. In mentioning this topic, I was really indicating that a fresh reinstallation can be made slightly less time-consuming and laborious by exporting .REG files from the registry that could be imported into the fresh registry.
You mention exporting a FULL and complete registry to a file just in case there were some settings from the old registry that you might need to retrieve later. Although this IS possible, using a couple of utility programs that enable you to load a .REG file or either of the files that make up the registry (system.dat and user.dat) and view the contents as though you were using REGEDIT, it would probably be even more laborious picking out the bits you needed rather than doing so from regedit before wiping the drive.
I frequently compare or view old .REG files that I have exported from my registries at various stages. For instance, perhaps I recall a particular file association that I had on a previous system that has long since been wiped, or maybe I had a registry modification that I have since forgotten about, etc. It is never be a bad idea to export the registry to a .REG or .TXT file, and copy system.dat and user.dat if you do a lot of tinkering like me, but in general a full registry export is (a) a large file that is best viewed in a plain text editor that can handle such large files (b) gobbledegook unless you are hunting very specifically for a setting.
At the end of this comment I will provide a list of things that I personally would make copies of. Perhaps you will never need them, but it's usually the case that you clear out all the junk pieces of piping, wire, old fittings, etc from your attic, and then have a need for them a week later.
2. DUN (Dial-Up-Networking)
==========================
Questions 3 and 4:
------------------
Copying out the *.DUN file from the Dial-Up Networking folder in My Computer will not actually set up your Dial-Up Connectivity completely and from scratch again, but I have used it as a quick way to recreate SOME of the settings for standard modem and broadband connections where one or more has been changed through meddling. In your case (with cable connection), it would be best to create the connection again by running the setup CD issued by your ISP. Sometimes the ISP's online help provides good notes with screenshots that allow you to create the settings manually, but there may be extra resources on a distributed CD that need to be installed to complete the setup. Don't waste your money and time on the phone asking for settings, just ask if they can post you the setup CD. Once again, there is no harm in actually keeping the *.DUN file as part of your backups.
Note: If you do a file search for all files named *.dun it isn't going to find your Dial-Up Networking file anywhere until you actually copy out the icon from the Dial-Up Networking folder to another place. Up to that point, it isn't actually a file, but the copying out acts like an "export to file" action. The Dial-Up Networking "folder" isn't actually a physical folder, it's just a reserved space where a graphical representation is created to allow you to access settings. In fact, a *.DUN file is just a text-based file like an .INF or .INI configuration file laid out like this when opened in Notepad:
[Entry]
; the "general" tab of dun icon's properties
Entry_Name=As_Shows_For_Ic
Import_Name=As_Shows_For_I
; settings under the "Multilink" tab
Multilink=no
[Phone]
; General tab "use dialling code" left unticked
Dial_As_Is=yes
Phone_Number=Number_Used_T
[Device]
Type=isdn
; The "connect using" field in the "General" tab
Name=Whatever_It_Shows_In_
; The settings shown by the "Configure" button
Settings_Size=126
Settings=Very_Long_Hex_Num
[Server]
; The settings under the "Server" tab
; of the dun's properties
Type=PPP
SW_Compress=no
PW_Encrypt=no
Network_Logon=no
SW_Encrypt=no
Negotiate_NetBEUI=no
Negotiate_IPX/SPX=no
Negotiate_TCP/IP=yes
[TCP/IP]
; The settings from the "TCP/IP Settings" button
; in the "Server" tab of the dun's properties
Specify_IP_Address=no
Specify_Server_Address=no
IP_Header_Compress=no
Gateway_On_Remote=yes
3. The "My Documents" Folder in Windows
==========================
Questions 5, 6 and 7
--------------------
It is, as you have surmised, created as "C:\My Documents" by Windows. IF another user is added AND the option has been accepted to create separate work areas for the original default user and the new user, then each user would have their own "My Documents" folder (plus desktop, start menu, favorites, etc), which would be:
C:\Windows\Profiles\User_0
C:\Windows\Profiles\User_0
etc.
It IS possible to drag and drop (MOVE) your "My Documents" folder into another folder, and this is normally then reflected in the registry where details of all the "User Shell Folder" paths are stored. Utilities like "TweakUI" allow you to do this through their interface for the "My Documents" folder (and also other folders). Although it isn't really necessary for the "My Documents" folder, other "special folders" may have to be moved elsewhere using a utility. I can only assume that at some point in the past you (a) moved the folder manually OR (b) moved it using some utility has done this without you remembering it.
If you format your C: Drive, the "E:\My Documents" folder will remain intact. The new registry will create a new default C:\My Documents folder.
Now, there ARE some minor issues with the "E:\My Documents" folder, and this is due to the fact that there will be a hidden file in the root of the E:\My Documents folder that tell it what icon to display, and this in turn tells it how to behave. Even after formatting the C: Drive, where it would create a NEW C:\My Documents folder, your old one on E: would still show that different icon the same as your new one on C: will show. This is less than ideal when you are navigating around your system moving and copying files and folders after a fresh install, so you should remove the hidden files that give it these characteristics.
From DOS, you will see this hidden "Desktop.ini" file if you type the proper commands to take you into that folder, and then list or show details that include "hidden" files.
From the C:\> Prompt:
attrib e:\mydocu~1\*.*
Changing to the E: drive and then into the My Documents folder:
e:
cd mydocu~1
attrib *.*
This will list ALL files in the ROOT of (ie. not in any sun-folders of) the E:\My Documents folder, and the results would resemble:
E:\My Documents>attrib *.*
A SH DESKTOP.INI C:\mydocu~1\desktop.ini
A = Archived, R = Read-Only, S = System, H = Hidden.
Alternatively, just list ONLY those files with the "hidden" and "system" attributes there:
dir /on /ahs e:\mydocu~1
If you have ever "customised this folder" from the "Folder Options" dialog, then you may also have a file named "folder.htt" in the root of your "My Documents" folder.
The actual "My Documents" FOLDER will not have any special attributes, it is just the file(s) in the root that make it what it is.
My advice would be to rename and change this into a completely NEUTRAL folder with absolutely no special behaviour or attributes set against it BEFORE reinstalling Windows. That way you would never be left wondering which one was the proper "My Documents" folder, and there is no possibility of copying any hidden files across with contents if you choose to move the files and sub-folders from that folder onto the E: Drive to some other location. It would also mean that you could then deliberately move the NEW C:\My Documents folder from C: to E: (as you currentluy have it) without being told that there is already a folder of that name i the destination.
This renaming and deletion of files would have to be done from DOS right before you reinstalled, because renaming the folder and booting into Windows again will recreate the folder either in situ as before, or in the Windows default location. Windows MUST HAVE a "My Documents" folder to survive :-)
Type the following commands in sequence while booted into DOS to turn E:\My Documents into a plain old folder named "MYFILES" (assumed to be starting from the C:\> Prompt):
e:
chdir mydocu~1
attrib -h -r -s desktop.ini
attrib -h -r -s *.htt
del desktop.ini
del *.htt
chdir ..
attrib -h -r -s mydocu~1
rename mydocu~1 MYFILES
Note: cd can be used for the chdir (change directory) command, and ren can be used for the rename command.
Although your files and sub-folders on the E: Drive WOULD all have been safe if you formatted the C: Drive and installed Windows from scratch, you now have all your data in a completely standard folder that keeps them doubly safe.
Hint: to make the new folder appear at the top of any file listing (in Windows or DOS), add an underscore at the start of the name eg. _MYFILES.
Notes:
When renaming from full DOS, keep the names to 8 characters or less, and don't try and add spaces in the names. Try and keep the new name unique. For instance, if you already have other folders on E: with names starting with "My...", then rename it something like "DOC_BAK".
IF any other "hidden" files in the root of E:\My Documents show in your previous attrib query, then add them to the list of files from which to remove the attributes and then delete - as long as you are sure that they are not any of your own personal user files that you have made hidden. Use the abbreviated DOS name by which they would have been listed. Some programs create their own files, such as Nero (CD-RW software) may create a "playlist" file named "default.pls".
4. "Product Key" Issue
=======================
Question 8:
-----------
The "ProductKey" line in the registry stores the "CD Key" or "Licence Number" that is shown on genuine Windows software, and has to be entered during the installation to validate the fact that you have a licence. As we all know full-well, all you have to do is type "Windows 98 serial" in a google search, and you will get a list of all manner of unsavoury sites hosting commonly shared Windows 98 CD Keys. That's probably why there are so many die-hard Windows 98se users out there, ie. they are all using copied CD's and CD-Keys. It doesn't take long to try and input a handful of such Win98se numbers before you get a compatible match that allows the installation to complete.
"Recovery CD's" issued with Compaq, Packard Bell, Dell, etc, etc, are referred to as OEM (original equipment manufacturer) versions of the operating system. They nevertheless have a "CD Key", but reinstallations from those recovery CD's may or may not not ask for it. Better to know it now, than to wipe the drive and then be asked for it at reinstallation. There is usually a sticker with this Win98 licence number on the case side of OEM computers that came preinstalled with Win98 and furnished recovery cd's only.
INSTALLATION SECTION
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Question 9. - Capacity Issue, and Need to Resize Partitions?
--------------------------
>>> "All my other installation files for any other applications I have kept on the E: drive and for the present I don't intend to reinstall these". <<<
I fully agree with this. The best thing you can do is establish what programs and applications you CURRENTLY have installed, and decide which ones you WILL reinstall. You, like me, have probably installed loads of programs assuming them to be very useful at the time, and then hardly used them thereafter.
For those that you have deemed "essential", you will usually be able to find out the storage area needed for the different types of install types ofered by each of these applications (eg. Typical, Compact, Run From CD, etc) either from Readme files on the installation CD or from the vendors' websites.
Here was the state of your drives when you created the MSINFO32 report.
Windows-managed swap file on drive C (3,376 MB free)
Available space on drive C: 3,372 MB of 8,134 MB
Available space on drive D: 12,020 MB of 36,206 MB
Available space on drive E: 5,919 MB of 12,851 MB
Because the "Swap File" (virtual memory) is set to be handled by Windows, it shows as having all the free space on the C: Drive at its disposal. You will ALWAYS need an overhead for this Virtual Memory (ie. the overspill from your 384 MB of system memory), but it's not an exact science quoting an optimum free space required. Opinions vary on this. The classic sign of not having sufficient free space for the Swap File is Windows slowing down and freezing up (momentarily or requiring a reboot) when doing very memory-intensive tasks like copying very large folders.
With programs like Paint Shop Pro, you can create new folders on other drives, and set them to handle temporary files (cache) while the application is in use. For example, in PsP you can set the "Undo Cache" to either a maximum amount of hard drive space OR to a set number of Undo's per open image. I have mine configured with no limit, because I have plenty of hard drive space and frequently mess up images where I have to go back through the undo stages to where I messed up. There is nothing to stop you from setting this to a new folder on D: and keeping the overheads on C: down.
Similarly, when you install Win98 freshly again and choose to relocate your "My Documents" folder to the D: Drive (or wherever), you can then create a new folder eg. "D:\Autorecover" and use MS Office's user options to set this as the folder where it will create autorecover documents while using Office.
So, you had 3,372 MB (3.3 GB) of free space on C: , but that was with Office 2000 installed to the D: Drive. While I always advocate installing MS Office to the C: Drive, doing things like the above are retrospective changes that DON'T interfere with the functionality of Office, and they are easy enough to restore back to the default program settings.
The same goes for relocating your Outlook Express folders, your Favorites, the Address Book, etc to new folders on the D: Drive. Doing this doesn't improve efficiency or anything like that, it just means that you can format the C: Drive and reinstall Windows any time you want while still keeping these data backups unaffected. Upon reinstalling all the applications though, you obviously then have to go into the settings again and tell it what folders to use.
HINT:
MS Office should be just about the first application to reinstall after a fresh Windows installation - following on from the motherboard chipset drivers. When it comes time to reinstall, ALWAYS opt for the "CUSTOM" install option. This way you can choose to install ONLY the components and related support that YOU know you use and need. If a component you are choosing NOT to install is dependent on another component, then you will be informed of this and can include it again or exclude the dependent component if you know that you don't need that either. It will give brief descriptions of each component when you select it. You don't need the help files in French or Swahili, so don't install them. Are you likely to use any of the additional PowerPoint templates and backgrounds? Are you likely to encounter any Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheets, or Corel Wordperfect 5.x files for which you would need to have text import filters installed? What about MS Outlook? I don't use it, so I don't install it. You can DRASTICALLY reduce the required hard drive space by carefully choosing only what you need.
The same goes for reinstalling WINDOWS itself. Choose the "Custom" option and don't install Additional Screensavers, Themes, etc.
*** What I would do ***
---------------
Copy the "win98" folder from the Windows 98 SE CD to a new folder on one of your extra partitions (you would probably choose E:) and run setup from there after booting to a Win98se boot floppy. In MY case, I copy "win98" to a folder named F:\WIN98SE. It's easy enough to remember, ie. Boot to the floppy, change drive to F: , change directory to WIN98SE, change directory to "win98", and type SETUP. I also specify options that make the installation faster and less laborious:
SETUP /m /ie /im /iv /IW
Although it is very easy to copy the "win98" folder from the CD to the new folder on the spare partition from DOS, on a FRESH drive I usually just install Win98se from CD, THEN copy the "win98" folder to the extra partition. Once Windows is installed, I THEN change the registry value that tells Windows that it was installed from F:\WIN98SE\win98 and NOT from the CD.
Copy the MS Office 2000 CD(s) to new folder(s) on your D: Drive and then launch setup from there. It is a lot faster, and if a component of feature is set to "Install on First Use", then it will find and install it without prompting for the CD. You have PLENTY room on your D: Drive, so I would use that to store the setup source folders for all these large applications like MS Office, PsP 9, IE 6 SP1, etc.
You say >>> "I hope I haven’t underestimated the size of those programs when installed" <<<
The only way to find out is to try it out and see.
Question 10 -
Installations of DirectX, IE6, etc and knowing when to install?
--------------------------
If you look at the above comments, I advise you to always choose the "CUSTOM" installation option. With particular reference to your confusion over prior advice given, perhaps this will clarify matters:
Windows 98se installs Internet Explorer version 5 by default.
The "custom" setup option does NOT give you the option of ommitting IE or OE, but you can UNTICK the "Internet Explorer Tools" component, because updated versions will be installed later with IE6 anyway. You can leave out the "Windows Address Book" from the Windows installation, because Office 2000 gives the option to install this.
Remember that, each time components are updated, backups are stored on the C: Drive that allow the older versions to be restored if the program that updated them was uninstalled. The objective here is to save clutter by thinking ahead.
MS Office 2000 will install only a slightly higher version of IE5 than Win98se if allowed to do so. Unfortunately, using the "Custom" install option does NOT allow you to control whether or not it will install Internet Explorer and Outlook Express. There is SOME control over "web-type" components eg. I use Frontpage 2002, so I don't install Frontpage 2000 during the Office setup or FP 2002 would just create a load of backups to clutter up my drive.
To deliberately exclude IE (and therefore OE) from the Office 2000 installation, you have to use the "MS Office Custom Installation Wizard". This comes as part of the Office 2000 Resource Kit, and the custom installation wizard is a single standalone program file. The idea is that, after copying the Office 2000 CD to a folder on the partition from where you will install it, you then run the custom installation wizard and point it to DATA1.MSI in this folder. It loads all the available install options and you just step through the dialogs ticking and unticking what you want to install, and what you don't. You are asked to specify an output file (it creates an *.MST file) at the outset and, at the end, it allows you to save this file to the same folder as DATA1.MSI. These are your custom setup instructions, and you then just open the file SETUP.INI in that same folder, and change the [MST] section to reflect the name of your custom setup file. It sounds complicated, but it is VERY easy, and all you have to do to install with these options is just run SETUP.EXE normally.
That's the way I do it, but I have a feeling you might find this an extra complication. It is easy enough for me to create a custom *.MST file for someone else to use with the same version of Office.
As far as DirectX is concerned, this would be the next update I would install. Win98se installs version 6, but you should really update it to version 8.1 BEFORE you install any other applications and utilities that are likely to install some in-between version. Likely candidates are Motherboard Chipset Driver CD, CD-Burning applications, and practically any multimedia utility of driver setup package. It WON'T usually install DirectX automatically, but more often shows it as a separate option that you can select with others, or that you can install independently. My advice is DON'T install whatever DirectX version it would install, because it updates a LOT of system files and these new versions will then have to be updated again when you install DirectX 8.1 from this download:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/win98/Install/8.1/W98Me/EN-US/DX81eng.exe
Question 11 - FDISK
-------------------
**** DO NOT USE FDISK to FORMAT the Drive **** !!
FDISK is used to destroy and recreate PARTITIONS. If you use it, you will lose ALL the data on ALL your partitions.
FORMATTING the C: Drive is what you seek to achieve.
To do so is very simple:
- Boot to the Win98se boot floppy
- Type the command FORMAT C: and press <Enter>
- Accept the prompts
- Press <Enter> when it asks you to name a "Volume Label".
The drive is then wiped clean of data, but the other partitions are unaffected.
You have outlined what to do with the Win98se boot floppy accurately, EXCEPT that you don't have to MOVE to any other drive to run the FORMAT C: command.
The boot floppy should stop at the A:\> Prompt, and the Format command is immediately available for use without changing to any other drive. Just type the command.
>>> "Place the installation Window 98 SE CD in the H: drive and type Win98\setup <enter>" <<<
This may or may not work. Some boot floppies allow you to just type SETUP and they will find it on the CD, while others require that you change drive to the CD and then type the setup command. Here's the sequence of commands I would enter after the boot floppy stopped at A:\>
H:
cd win98
setup
*** Remove the floppy when prompted ***
If it is left in, then the reboots discussed below will just find the floppy again.
Question 12 - Drivers and "New Hardware" Detection
--------------------------
When Windows 98 SE is installing, it will reboot several times. Each time it will configure something new, and may detect new hardware even at the first reboot. On motherboards that PRECEDE 1998, the drivers for the MOTHERBOARD chips, etc, are normally found on the Win98se CD and installed automatically.
Although Win98se does have very basic drivers on the CD for SOME additional hardware like older add-on Sound Cards and Graphics Cards, and MAY install these automatically, generally it WON'T for anything other than the most popular add-on cards around when Win98se was released. In this case, you will see the "Found New Hardware" detection dialog and it will usually stop and ask you to click "OK" to allow it to search for suitable drivers.
If you clicked "OK", then it will normally search on Floppy Drives and the Drive from which Windows is being installed (ie. your CD's Drive Letter). Note: The drive letter for the CD will be back to the normal one rather than bumped up by one letter while booted to the boot floppy.
The caveat here is that it is not always clear what kind of device it has detected, although you usually see some description like "multimedia device" or "graphics" so that you have an idea if it has found your sound card or graphics card.
IF you have already copied the setup files for the device drivers to your partition containing the source setup files for other programs, then you can direct it to look specifically in that folder by browsing to it using the drop-down arrow. You'll know what I mean when you see this.
There is also a "Have Disk" button if you find yourself in another stage of the detection, and this serves the same purpose of telling it where to look for the drivers.
I suggest allowing the process to first search the Windows CD (untick the "Floppy" box) and, when that fails, just use the "Look for drivers in a specified place" option and browse to the original setup CD for your sound card (or other device).
If you have a folder on one of your partitions containing more recent driver files, then direct it to that instead.
NOTE:
Downloaded driver packages come as either self-extracting .exe files, or as .zip files.
For the hardware detection to find suitable drivers in the specified location, it is looking for an *.INF FILE that matches some of the details about the device that it has read from it. If the package still exists as an .exe or .zip file, then it WILL NOT find suitable drivers where you specify. A supplied driver CD that came with a device will nearly always have such an .INF file, and will pick it up and show it in a panel in the hardware wizard's dialog, whereupon you just click "OK" or "Finish", and it does the rest.
In the event of it not finding a usable driver (eg. the package is in .exe or .zip format), you should just cancel the hunt for drivers and allow Windows to finish setting itself up. Once complete, you can then:
(a) find the driver package .exe file and double click on it to install the drivers
(b) find and unzip the package .zip file (you would need to install WinZip) and look for a setup.exe or install.exe in the unpacked contents.
If an unpacked .zip file does not contain either a setup or install.exe file, BUT DOES contain one or more *.INF files, then you should do this:
Right-Click My Computer > "Properties"
Device manager > click on the device showing ? or other symbol.
Click "Properties" and open the "Driver" tab of the properties dialog.
Click "Update Driver" and then direct it to look "in a specified place".
Tell it to look in the folder just unpacked from the zip file, and it will find the .INF file to allow it to install the driver.
It's difficult to know in advance exactly what will happen with your computer, but the above will give you an idea of what to expect and what to do.
Question 13 - System File Version Conflicts
--------------------------
>>> "Since all data has been wiped off of C: drive, are glitches such as incorrect msvcrt.dll version avoided?" <<<
Not entirely, because some drivers were written for Win95 as well as Win98, but weren't current as Win98se came out. The writers may have packaged a Win98 version with it to update a Win95 system, but that file may be older than the Win98se one currently on your system. The installation process would nevertheless TRY and overwrite your EXISTING file with the NEW but OLDER one.
If you WERE to go ahead and allow the older version to be installed, the current newer one would be backed up and could be restored from the backup folder used by the "Version Conflict Manager" later, so it's usually not a catastrophe.
Here's how to avoid this potential problem.
IF you are shown a message that resembles:
"File <filename.ext> being copied is an older version than the one currently installed.
It is recommended that you keep the existing version.
Do you wish to keep it?".
Read the dialog carefully, because some are badly worded. Just make sure that you KEEP the EXISTING file version that is already installed. IF the driver doesn't work and blames it on an incorrect version of the system file, then you KNOW that it is the driver's problem and not Windows, and that you should try another driver.
The same goes for uninstalling drivers.
If prompted to "remove the following shared system file that is no longer in use" DO NOT believe what it says, and KEEP the file.
Question 14 and 15
------------------
Your fresh install will have ALL the functionality of the previous installation, but with the additional benefits that it has a registry free of old erroneous or redundant settings (including hardware settings), will heve less of a mish-mash of system file versions and therefore less potential for version conflicts, and that it will run a lot faster with less crashes.
Installing more recent applications and programs will invariably need to update some system files including virtual device drivers, but they will be doing so on a less cluttered system where it should have kept a good track of what files were replaced.
Personally, I think it is a good idea to keep a close eye on what things were added or modified after each installation. Applications usually create installation logs, and these can either be in the program's folder (where it is used for instructions during any subsequent UNinstallation), or in the C:\Windows\TEMP folder. It is also quite important to delete all temporary files in that folder BEFORE installing new programs.
There are utilities designed to monitor changes made by installations, but I am now so familiar with my systems that I tend to be able to spot the changes quite easily. I always export a BEFORE and AFTER .REG file, and usually do a side-by-side comparison with a program named "Beyond Compare" by http://www.scootersoftware.com.
You can run SCANREGW.EXE from the Start Menu's "Run" option and force it to back up the registry and the files system.ini and win.ini to a new .CAB file in the folder C:\Windows\SYSBCKUP before installing new programs. This can then be restored from DOS is necessary by running the command SCANREG /RESTORE and choosing that .CAB file if something goes wrong.
Utility programs like "InstallWatch" can be useful:
http://www.epsilonsquared.com/anonymous/InstallWatchPro25.exe
http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_description/0,fid,22797,00.asp
http://ftp.pcworld.com/pub/new/utilities/InstallWatchPro25.exe
Those are old links for the version I used, but may still be live.
Question 16 to 21 - Motherboard Chipset Drivers
--------------------------
Your "Dell Dimension Resource CD" contains a message :
>>>
"Driver restoration is intended to be performed under the direction of qualified support personnel" ..."with detailed knowledge" ... "contact the appropriate support group".
<<<
So they must mean business.
Not really, what they are giving is a disclaimer and a way to make extra money from support telephone calls at premium rate. Without chipset drivers, your system won't run properly, and because they are enshrouding this area with such great mystery, they haven't made things very user-friendly, have they? (SEE BELOW)
The Resource CD autoruns to a Menu when inserted into a Windows Computer that has autorun enabled for the CD. There are various options, and I have provided details of this later on where I have provided links to online documentation under the section :
"Using the Dell Dimension ResourceCD to Reinstall Drivers"
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/drivers.htm
What they meant by the warning was that you should have some idea of the TYPE and MODEL of the device for which you are trying to install drivers, because the Resource CD contains drivers for a RANGE of computer models with slightly different specifications.
>>> "Do you want to see TreePrint applied to that Resource CD?" <<<
Yes, that might be very helpful. I may be able to pick out some typically named folders and files used for the chipset drivers, where you could copy them out and install them without having to run the Resource CD.
*** VERY IMPORTANT NOTE ***
==========================
Your motherboard is based on a standard 440BX chipset (comprising the Intel 82371AB/EB and 82443BX chips). Windows 98SE has ALL the resources on the CD to install basic versions of the required chipset drivers WITHOUT any user intervention. I am quite sure that you will see it finding the hardware (probably on the 2nd reboot) and installing these drivers without prompting you to have it search for the drivers as long as the CD is still in the drive.
>>> "...installing the chipset drivers immediately after step 2 (hardware drivers) often resolves unidentified hardware (! or X) in Device Manager". <<<
Just as an example of what I was referring to by "will not function properly". You have an NVidia RIVA TNT graphics CARD. The basic motherboard chipset drivers installed by Win98SE WILL NOT install a driver for this device, but the chipset drivers are required to install the support for the interface slot into which it is mounted along with the other PCI Cards.
>>> "The computer is a Dell Dimension XPS T500 and I have my service tag number". <<<
The following link takes you to the "Drivers and Downloads" page for the "XPS Txxx" range of computers, where you have to check that each driver is compatible with the "XPS T500"
http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/devices.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&SystemID=DIM_PNT_P03_XPS_T___&os=W98&osl=EN
But if you enter your "Service Tag" on the following page, it will isolate the download links ONLY to your specific model:
http://support.dell.com/support/index.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
Here are the drivers you will need, unless you choose the option of using the Resource CD (discussed near the end of this document).
Chipset
-------
NOTE: Although Win98se will identify the motherboard and install its own chipset drivers, I RECOMMEND that you install these Intel chipset drivers:
Useful Utility to identify your motherboard chipset.
It SHOULD identify it as "440BX AGPset". IF IT DOESN'T, then DON'T install the chipset "Inf Installer" linked to next.
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/8264/eng/ChipUtil.exe
Intel Chipset Drivers for 440 family of boards including the 440BX AGP chipset for Win98SE:
This utility installs INF files that inform the operating system how to properly configure the chipset for specific functionality such as USB and AGP.
Version 3.20.1008 5/6/2002
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/4241/a08/infinst_enu.exe
Readme:
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/4241/ENG/readme.txt
Release Notes:
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/4241/ENG/Release_320.pdf
Just double-click on infinst_enu.exe once downloaded, follow the prompts, and reboot.
Graphics
--------
NVIDIA RIVA TNT Display Driver for Dell version 4.11.01.0231 dated 10/05/1999
(yours currently has version 4.12.01.0377 dated 2/8/2000 installed).
http://ftp.us.dell.com/video/M64W98.EXE
ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/video/M64W98.EXE
Most recent driver release from nVidia.
It's a bit of overkill getting this version at 19.3 MB.
It is intended for very recent cards, but does cover your nVidia Riva TNT model also.
It supports DirectX version 9c, so if you chose to update your DirectX version to that, at least there would be support for it.
ForceWare Release 80 Version: 81.98 Release Date: December 21, 2005
http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/81.98/81.98_forceware_win9x_english.exe
ftp://download.nvidia.com/Windows/81.98/81.98_forceware_win9x_english.exe
Documentation:
nView 3.5 Desktop Manager User's Guide (Release 80)
http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/81.98/81.98_ForceWare_nView_User_Guide.pdf
Display Properties User's Guide (Release 80)
http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/81.98/81.98_ForceWare_Display_Property_User_Guide.pdf
Oldest driver linked to on the nVidia site for Windows9x (8.1 MB)
Version: 28.32 Release Date: April 26, 2002 (supports DirectX 8.1)
http://205.158.109.140/Windows/28.32/28.32_win9x.exe
ftp://205.158.109.140/Windows/28.32/28.32_win9x.exe
Full list of nVidia Driver archives here:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/win9x_archive.html
Audio
-----
Voyetra Turtle Beach 64 Voice A3D Montego II Sound Card Driver
For Dimension XPS Txxx, v. 1.0, A01
Version 4.05 Release Date 05/20/1999
http://ftp.us.dell.com/audio/TB2-405E.EXE
ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/audio/TB2-405E.EXE
(WARNING: Only for Windows 9x and NT - NOT for Windows ME or 2000).
Dell Installation Instructions
--------------------------
1. Download to desktop and double-click TB2-405E.EXE
2. A Self-Extractor window appears.
3. Leave the default "unzip to" field as is (C:\DELL\DRIVERS\R20109)
4. Click "UnZip".
If the folder doesn't exist, you'll be prompted to create one. Click Yes.
5. Follow the on-screen installation instructions in the window.
HTML Pop-Up With Install Now Button
1. The Dell Software Installation Documentation window appears.
2. Click the Install Now button. A File Download window appears.
3. Click Run this program from its current location and click OK.
The Security Warning window appears.
4. Click Yes. The InstallShield Wizard window appears.
5. Follow the on-screen instructions.
SEE ALSO: "Specific Notes about the Audio Driver" further on under the "Documentation" secton.
Speakers
--------
Altec Lansing ACS 495 speaker driver for Windows 98
Version 1.0, A01 Release Date: 06/12/1998
http://ftp.us.dell.com/audio/495_W98.EXE
ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/audio/495_W98.EXE
You need 2 x standard formatted blank floppy disks for this.
1. Insert your first blank floppy
2. Click on the downloaded file "495_W98.EXE"
2. You will be prompted with a "Disk Librarian" screen.
3. Click on "Setup".
4. Follow the instructions to create the floppies
5. Insert disk 1 in the floppy drive A:
6. View the Readme.txt file for instructions.
7. Double-Click on SETUP.EXE to install, and insert floppy No. 2 when prompted.
Installing from these floppies installs :
1. Audio Management Software
2. Specific USB Drivers
The "Audio Management Software" includes a new Control Panel icon and Start Menu shortcut to access the "Speaker Management Interface", and this may pop up periodically advising you of the status.
NOTE: If you disconnect the usb cable, the Interface is disabled and the speakers operate in standalone mode. In Standalone Mode, you can only adjust speaker volume etc from the speakers' physical controls, NOT from within Windows. The software "Speaker Management Interface" synchronises with the Windows Volume Control while it is enabled.
Network Interface Card (NIC)
--------------------------
Yours is identified as "NETGEAR FA311/312 PCI Adapter", although this is ambiguous as the Netgear Support page for downloads provides separate resources for FA311 and FA312, they both use the same driver.
http://kbserver.netgear.com/products/FA311.asp
http://kbserver.netgear.com/products/FA312.asp
Installation Guide (for FA311 and FA312):
http://kbserver.netgear.com/pdf/fa311_312_331_install_guide.pdf
Product Specifications:
http://kbserver.netgear.com/datasheets/fa311ps.pdf
http://kbserver.netgear.com/datasheets/fa312_datasheet.pdf
FA311 and FA312 Adapter Driver Version 1.8 For Windows:
ftp://downloads.netgear.com/files/F31XV18.zip
NOTE: This installs the same version as you currently have, ie. FA31xND3.SYS version 3.00.122.0 Dated 17 April 2001.
1. Unzip "F31XV18.zip" to its own folder on the desktop
2. Navigate to F31XV18\F31XV180\Ver 1.80\HELP.EXE and double-click on it
3. This shows help files including Frequently Asked Questions, compatibility, etc.
(also read the file F31XV18\F31XV180\Ver 1.80\HELP\WIN95_98\FAQ.TXT
4. Use the ARROW DOWN key to select Windows 98
5. An operating system-specific screen displays.
6. Follow the instructions to complete the installation.
(F5 Prints the instructions)
7. Press <ESC> to Close the DOS Help File window.
8. Delete the new folder that you created on your desktop or burn to CD.
*** IMPORTANT NOTES ***
REMOVE this card temporarily WHILE installing Windows 98.
Re-insert it while powered off AFTER Windows is installed, and then follow the instructions below (or as you will see when you double-click HELP.EXE and choose Windows 98).
It would be a wise idea to install "Client for Microsoft Networks" BEFORE inserting the NIC card ready for driver installation:
1. Insert the Win98se CD and hold the Shift key to stop it autorunning
2. Control Panel > Network > Add > Add Client > Add
3. Click on "Microsoft" in LEFT Pane
4. Click on "Client for Microsoft Networks" in the RIGHT pane
5. Cick "Have Disk" and browse to the "win98" folder of your Win98 CD
6. After it installs, remove the CD and Reboot
NOW power off, insert the NIC Card, and power on again.
1. Windows will detect a new "PCI Ethernet Controller" has been found.
2. If you have burned the drivers to CD or copied them to a floppy, then insert the disk and click on Next. If they are in a folder on your hard drive, just click Next.
3. The Add New Hardware Wizard window pops up.
4. Select "Search for best driver" option and click on Next.
5. Select the drive or browse to the folder containing the driver files, and click on Next.
6. The next window should indicate that the "NETGEAR FA311/FA312 PCI Adapter" has been found.
7. Click on Next when Windows prompts to obtain its driver from that source.
8. It will be looking for the "FA31x.DOS" file.
9. You will be asked to insert the Windows 98 CD-Rom unless you installed Windows 98 from a folder on your spare partition.
10. When asked where to find the "CHOOSUSR.DLL", browse to the "win98" folder of the Win98 CD or the folder on the hard drive containing the .CAB files.
11. Drivers should install.
12. Click on Finish at the last "Add New Hardware Wizard" window.
13. Reboot when prompted, remembering to first remove the floppy if that is where you were installing the drivers from.
14. A 2nd reboot might be required to finalize settings.
Peripherals
===========
Epson C82 Inkjet Printer:
-------------------------
Driver version 6.3cA for Windows 9x and ME including Status Monitor 3:
ftp://ftp.epson.com/drivers/epson10427.exe (4.75 MB)
Epson Web-To-Page Utility v1.1aA for Win98, ME, 2000, XP.
This utility automatically adjusts web pages to fit your printed page. Select the "Print" button in the Web-To-Page toolbar integrated into your Internet Explorer browser to start printing. Requires IE 5.5 or later.
ftp://ftp.epson.com/drivers/epson11667.exe
Dell P990 Monitor
-----------------
(Dell Trinitron UltraScan P990 19" CRT??)
Monitors don't actually require a DRIVER, in the true sense of the expression, but Monitor Drivers usually comprise:
1. An *.INF file - creates the correct registry settings for the monitor and sets it as the default monitor
2. An *.ICM file - Creates a colour profile that helps to get the best colour rendition.
Windows 98se copies a LOT of its own .INF files to C:\Windows\INF folder, and that is the FIRST place the "Found New Hardware Wizard" will look as it finds new hardware. In YOUR case, it should find the following lines in the file MONITOR10.INF, identify the Monitor, and create the correct hardware settings in the registry for it.
[Manufacturer]
%DELL%=DELL
[DELL]
%P990%=P990.Install, Monitor\DEL50DD
[P990.Install]
DelReg=DEL_CURRENT_REG
AddReg=P990.AddReg, 1600, DPMS
[P990.AddReg]
HKR,"MODES\1600,1200",Mode
[DEL_CURRENT_REG]
HKR,MODES
HKR,,MaxResolution
HKR,,DPMS
[1600]
HKR,,MaxResolution,,"1600,
Dell="Dell Computer Corp."
P990="Dell P990"
So, your monitor SHOULD be recognised as a "Dell P990". If it can't find the drivers, tell it to look in C:\Windows\INF and it should pick up on Monitor10.inf.
The problem with this is that it doesn't install the Colour Profile file (P990.ICM) to C:\Windows\System\COLOR because Win98se doesn't have that colour profile amongst its available resources.
Here's the official Dell download that DOES:
http://ftp.us.dell.com/monitors/DELLMON.EXE
Just double-click on DELLMON.EXE, leave the default "Unzip to" folder set as "C:\Dell\Drivers\monitor",
Utilities
---------
Dell 32 Bit Diagnostics Utility v1045
http://ftp.us.dell.com/diags/DD1045.exe
ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/diags/DD1045.exe
Dell ZZtop Utilities (NOT entirely sure about this one)
Download will create a DOS boot floppy with the ZZtop hard drive re-image utility.
This version is compatable with Dell Snap Restore.
http://ftp.us.dell.com/utility/ZZ-DOS.exe
ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/utility/ZZ-DOS.exe
User Guides
-----------
Dell Users Guide Viewer:
Browser application which displays all Dell system documents installed on the user's system. It is intended to be used with system-specific HTML documents which are available through the Dell Documents section of this website.
http://ftp.us.dell.com/utility/6577DENG.exe
ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/utility/6577DENG.exe
Documents and Manuals:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/
Right-click > "Save TARGET As" to download the following Adobe Acrobat documents:
Getting Started Sheet
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/9029d.pdf
Dell Dimension Systems Setup Guide
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/setup.pdf
Dell Dimension XPS Txxx and Txxxr Systems Reference and Troubleshooting Guide
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/8868d4.pdf
Standard Windows Help File (*.chm file):
1. Right-Click > Save Target As > Save "xpstrhlp.chm" to C:\Windows\System
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/xpstrhlp.chm
2. Right-Click > Save Target As > Save "popup.ocx" to C:\Windows\System
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/popup.ocx
3. Start Menu > RUN option > and type regsvr32 popup.ocx > Click OK
4. This will register the ActiveX component that allows popup windows from within the help file.
5. Create a shortcut on your desktop to C:\Windows\System\xpstrhlp
Using the Dell Dimension ResourceCD to Reinstall Drivers
==========================
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/drivers.htm
NOTICE: The Dell Dimension ResourceCD contains drivers for devices that might not be installed in your computer. DO NOT install device drivers UNLESS you first identify the specific driver intended for the hardware installed in your computer.
1. Start the computer
If you have not initially installed the Dell Dimension ResourceCD application program, proceed to the next step. If you have previously installed the application program, proceed to step 6.
2. Insert the Dell Dimension ResourceCD into the CD Drive.
3. The ResourceCD Installation application program automatically starts.
4. Follow the instructions on your screen.
5. When the "InstallShield" setup finishes, remove the CD and then click Finish to reboot.
6. After the system reboots, Insert the Dell Dimension ResourceCD again.
7. The Welcome Dell System Owner screen appears.
8. Click Next.
9. Change the language in the Language list located in the upper-right corner
10. Select the model of your computer in the System Model list.
11. Select the operating system
12. Select the type of device in the Device Type list.
13. Select Drivers in the Topic list.
14. Click the name of the driver that you want to reinstall.
15. Follow the instructions on the screen.
Specific Notes about the Audio Driver
--------------------------
I notice that there are references to "Yamaha Audio" when the user guides discuss the Dimension XPS Txxx computer. There are two possibilities:
1. The on-board Yamaha sound chip that is standard on Intel 440BX motherboards was removed on your specific motherboard model in favour of an add-on card
OR
2. The chip is still on the board, but has been disabled.
The following page tells you how to boot into the CMOS Setup Screen and how to navigate around:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm
In particular, the "Advanced" tab > "Peripheral Configuration" sub-menu shows you the setting that Enables or Disables an on-board sound chip so that you can use an add-on card.
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm#peripheral_configuration_submenu
(By the way, don't disable "Legacy USB Support" as shown in the settings on this page. That should be Enabled).
All settings in the CMOS Setup Screen are stored regardless of whether you wipe the hard drive and reinstall Windows. The settings are on a small chip that is powered by the small coin-cell battery on the motherboard, so this shouldn't be of any concern UNLESS you happen to see mention of a Yamaha device with problems in Device Manager. It is REMOTELY possible that (if there s a Yamaha chip on the board) that it was disabled from WITHIN Windows, in which case you can either disable it there again, or from the CMOS Setup Screen.
Incidentally, I see that Dell recommend specific slots for specific add-on cards:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/specs.htm#default_dell_installed_expansion_card_placement
Although it seems to refer only to when an "Optional TV Tuner Card or SwapBox" is installed, but it would pay to check that your cards are here:
PCI Slot 1 NETGEAR FA311/312 PCI Adapter
PCI Slot 3 Montego II Sound Card
The first PCI Slot should be identified by a number next to it on the motherboard.
RESTORING THE SYSTEM TO DELL DEFAULT
==========================
If this is the way you would prefer to go ie. a bog-standard original setup, then read the following page:
How do I use the Dell Reinstallation CD or the Dell Product Recovery CD for Windows 98 SE?
--------------------------
Good Screenshots:
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?DN=FA1034500
Determine Which CD You Have:
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?DN=FA1034500#step1
Use the CD:
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?DN=FA1034500#step3
Recover Hard Drive without Format
--------------------------
This option overwrites all of the Windows 98 SE system files, including the registry files.
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?DN=FA1034500#noformat
This option would be typically referred to as a "deltree and reinstall" because the c:\Program Files and the c:\Windows directories are deleted, but the data on the rest of the hard drive is unaffected (although MOST of the applications won't work properly with a new registry).
Format and Recover Hard Drive
--------------------------
This option will completely erase the contents of your hard drive and then will recover the Windows 98 operating system.
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?DN=FA1034500#format
All data files will be removed and you will need to reinstall all your software and applications. This is the most complete way to reinstall the operating system.
NOTE:
NONE of the reinstall options detailed on the pages above will reinstall drivers for Dell-specific devices such as video cards or sound cards. You need to install these from the Resource CD or their respective media.
PRINT THE FOLLOWING GUIDES
--------------------------
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/software_reinstall/en/index?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&SystemID=DIM_PNT_P03_XPS_T___&ServiceTag=&results=true&category=0&OperatingSystem=15
Select the guides to print, and then click the "Print Guides" button at the bottom of the page.
What video card is in my system?
--------------------------
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?DN=FA1038855
1. Start Menu > RUN Option > and type DEBUG > click OK
2. Type the command d c000:01 and press <enter>
3. It should show details to the right of the DOS Window
4. Type q and press <enter> to quit Debug
5. Close the DOS Window
Installing the NVIDIA TNT2 drivers for Win98 on my Dell Dimension from Resource CD
--------------------------
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?c=us&cs=19&DN=1032500&type=SRG&l=en&s=dhs
NOTE: Procedure depends on your version of Resource CD and whether the card is identified as nVidia Riva TNT or nVidia TNT2 M64 4xAGP.
Install Altec Lansing ACS495 speaker drivers for Win98 on Dell Dimension from Resource CD
--------------------------
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?c=us&cs=19&DN=1017358&type=SRG&l=en&s=dhs
Note: If you can't find the 2 ACS495 diskettes that shipped with your system, or were unable to make your backup disks from Dell Program Disk Maker, the drivers for the speakers are available from the Dell File Library via a file that will create 2 x floppy install disks (link given earlier).
Install Turtle Beach Montego II A3D sound card drivers for Win98 from Resource CD
--------------------------
EXCELLENT SCREENSHOTS!
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?c=us&cs=19&DN=1032638&type=SRG&l=en&s=dhs
NOTE: Procedure depends on your version of Resource CD, or whether you have a Turtle Beach Montego II CD.
Install from download (link given earlier):
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?c=us&cs=19&DN=1032638&type=SRG&l=en&s=dhs#Download
How to perform a "Typical" Installation of MS Office 2000 on Windows 98
--------------------------
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?c=us&cs=19&DN=1014474&type=SRG&l=en&s=dhs
NOTE: This shows the "typical" install option, but there are some good screenshots. I have previously recommended the "Custom" install option, and still do.
OTHER DOCUMENTATION
===================
Product documentation, manuals, specifications, and installation guides INDEX:
http://support.dell.com/support/systemsinfo/documentation.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
Online Reinstall Guide
----------------------
http://support.dell.com/us/en/kb/org/
Online Hints and Tips (hundreds of them):
http://service.dell.com/dell/
QUESTIONS CONTINUED
===================
Question 22 and 23 - Windows Update and Support
--------------------------
>>> Would Windows Update download and install updates covering the period from June 1999 to January 2006 without missing any needed updates?" <<<
What you should bear in mind is that a lot of the Windows Updates are "Cumulative", which is to say that they are superseded and made redundant as they are added to a roll-up update that "includes all previous hotfixes and updates". There are actually very few Windows Updates for Win98SE, and those that are listed when you run the scan option on the Windows Update page are usually the only ones you need. There is the odd "patch" that addresses very specific issues such as a problem with USB on computers with AMD processors and VIA chipsets, etc, but I cannot think of any such specific problems with your motherboard.
The thing about Windows Update, and the imminent cessation of support is that when you search Microsoft pages, the links are now mostly replaced by ones to Windows XP (or sometimes WinME), but won't provide links for Win98. If you do find a knowledgebase article, or one of the MS0x.xxx pages that discusses a security-related issue, you won't usually find a direct download link for Win98 or 98SE. You are usually told that you can only install the update by running Windows Update.
*** GOOD TIPS ***
=================
TIP No. 1.
----------
Install Internet Explorer 6 SP1 BEFORE going to Windows Update. That way, you won't have as many updates being listed, because they are already incorporated in IE6 SP1.
TIP No. 2
---------
Instead of downloading the IE6 SP1 download initialiser and then having it INSTALL all the components over an internet connection, there is a method to DOWNLOAD and SAVE the setup files so that you can install IE6 SP1 while you are offline. This method has the added benefit that you can choose ALL the operating systems, and download a package that would be suitable for Windows 98, or Windows ME, or Windows 2000, or Windows XP. It means a much larger download than would be performed if it was installing WHILE online, because the process checks your system and ONLY installs components that are NOT YET installed. Downloading and Saving all the setup files for all operating systems for a later offline install means that you shouldn't be missing any bits and pieces that a subsequent installation from your package might need to go online to fetch.
The Method?
This link usually allows you to download a FULL set of setup files for ALL OS's, but the link is often so painfully hard to load because it's probably choked with people doing the same thing:
http://downloads.planetmirror.com/pub/microsoft/ie/6.0sp1/ie60sp1.exe (77 MB)
I have used that download, but I prefer to grab my own. Download the following file:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/ie6sp1/finrel/6_sp1/W98NT42KMeXP/EN-US/ie6setup.exe
This is the file that would initialise the setup process online and start installing the required files over the Internet.
Create a new folder eg. C:\IE6SP1\INIT and copy "ie60sp1.exe" into it.
Create another folder named C:\IE6SP1\DOWNLOADED
Start Menu > RUN > and type the following command > click OK
You MUST USE THE EXACT syntax shown below, INCLUDING the quotation marks, and observing the spaces. Copy and paste (Ctrl + V) is the best option.
"C:\IE6SP1\INIT\ie6setup.e
This starts a new dialog on the License screen. Just choose "Accept" and click "Next".
The next screen will show a "Folder to download installation files" field with a "Browse" button. Browse to the folder C:\IE6SP1\DOWNLOADED.
Below this you will have 4 tick-boxes where you can choose your operating system:
Windows 98
Windows NT
Windows 2000 and XP
Windows Millenium
I am suggesting that you tick ALL of them to acquire the fullest installation package possible, but you might just prefer to download Win98 setup files only.
Click "Next" to start the download process.
If, for some reason the download process gets interrupted, you can resume the download process (as long as you haven't messed with the files in C:\IE6SP1\DOWNLOADED) by executing the same command used in the beginning, ie.
"C:\IE6SP1\INIT\ie6setup.e
Confusingly, the original setup initialiser has the same file name as the "ie6setup.exe", but the best idea would be to burn ONLY THE CONTENTS of the "DOWNLOADED" folder to a CD OR just MOVE that folder to one of your partitions and rename it something like E:\IE6SP1 where you can double-click "ie6setup.exe" to install the update.
ALWAYS REBOOT after installing ANY update - particularly IE6 SP1, and resist the temptation to install more than one update from a local source without a reboot in between. generally Windows Update knows what it is doing in this respect, and tells you the updates that require to be installed on their own because of this.
TIP No. 3
---------
Try and download a few of what I would consider to be IMPORTANT updates, and install them before running Windows Update. You can find them on the "Corporate Updates" site which doesn't automate Windows Update or scan your system:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/downloads/corporate.asp
OR, some of the older essential or important updates are linked to here:
http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=90
The first one I suggest installing is the "Windows 98 SE Shutdown Supplement". (You'll see my reasoning when you get to the 2nd point below).
Download and Install DirectX Version 8.1 for Windows 98 and ME:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/win98/Install/8.1/W98Me/EN-US/DX81eng.exe
I advise stopping with version 8.1 unless you encounter something that specifically requires a higher version. ONLY in that case, install version 9c:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/8/1/e/81ed90eb-dd87-4a23-aedc-298a9603b4e4/directx_9c_redist.exe
Updated FDISK patch to address an issue of false capacity reporting on drives larger than 63 GB:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/Win98/Update/8266R/W98/EN-US/263044USA8.EXE
Visual Basic Runtime version 6 SP5:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/vb60pro/Redist/sp5/WIN98Me/EN-US/vbrun60sp5.exe
IF you have any very old applications or utilities that might need old Visual Basic Riuntimes, there is no harm in copying versions 3 and 4 to your C:\Windows\System folder. If they are ever needed, then they will be used:
Visual Basic Runtime v3.0
http://www.karenware.com/progs/vbrun30.exe
Visual Basic Runtime v4.0 (16-bit and 32-bit versions)
http://www.karenware.com/progs/vbrun40.exe
Both are self-extracting .exe files.
Windows Installer Version 2:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/WindowsInstaller/Install/2.0/W9XMe/EN-US/InstMsiA.exe
Dial-Up Networking Version 1.4:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/win98SE/Update/17648/W98/EN-US/dun14-SE.exe
Windows Script Update version 5.6 for Windows 98, ME, and NT 4.0:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/c/9/4c9e63f1-617f-4c6d-8faf-c2868f670c1c/scr56en.exe
NOW run windows update after the last reboot.
TIP No. 4
---------
Grab a copy of the Windows Updates to KEEP, even though the process was done while online.
Once Windows Update completes, and it prompts you to reboot, RESIST the temptation to click the OK Button. There are 2 reasons:
1. You can open Windows Explorer while IE is still open, and copy the downloaded Windows Update .exe files from your C:\Windows\Temporary Internet Files out to a neutral folder before rebooting, when they would be lost. In some cases, the Internet Options are set to "Empty Temporary Internet Files folder when browser is closed". In fact, I advocate this setting if not already enabled.
2. Rebooting while there are open application Windows and while you are still online is a BAD idea. All it takes is a failed reboot due to a system hang, and one or more of those updates won't install properly. Click the option to "Reboot Later" (or similar button), and then CLOSE Internet Explorer. Disconnect from the Internet
TIP No. 5
---------
Because you are installing IE6 SP1 fairly soon after you have reinstalled Windows, I recommend that you now run the System File Checker. This utility uses a database of file versions as originally installed by Windows to determine if any files have been changed, or are missing. Although it SHOULD be updated by Windows Updates and installations such as MS Office, it isn't always accurate and can throw up some false alarms, causing you to restore an older file from the Windows CD.
Start Menu > RUN > and type SFC > click OK
Click the "Settings" button and set it to:
- Prompt for Backup
- Leave the "backup location" as C:\Windows\Helpdesk\SFC
- Overwrite existing log (if running SFC again change this to "append to log")
- Check for changed files AND deleted files
- Leave the default settings as they are under the "search criteria" and advanced" tabs.
- OK to close the "Settings" dialog
Main window > "Scan For Altered Files" > Start button.
Because you have it set to "Prompt" you when it finds an apparent anomaly, it will show details and 4 options:
- Update Verification Information
- Restore File
- Ignore
- Update verification Information for all deleted files
The last option will only show if its discovery is a "missing" file. An example of Windows inefficiency at updating this verification database is where I used Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs > Windows Setup and uninstalled the optional "WinPopup" component. SFC decided to tell me that the file was missing, when in fact the database should really have been updated to reflect the intentional changes.
My advice is to choose the FIRST option so that it adds the CURRENT file versions, etc, to its database. IF you get to one like "SFC has detected that setupx.dll appears to be corrupted", then IGNORE this until you can find out what it really means. You can always run SFC again a second time. Just be careful when clicking the OK button to confirm what you want to do about a stop and prompt dialog, because it defaults to "restore file" and it's easy to just click OK.
----- END Of TIPS ---------
Bill
===== END of DOCUMENT =====
Sorry, I forgot to address the question about what types of things you should try and back up.
Merete's suggestion of connecting the drive as a slave in a functional computer and copying out files in Windows mode makes sense. because your computer is not bootable to Windows, backups will have to be made from DOS, which can be long-handed and annoying. Hoever, there won't be that many things that you cannot easily recreate again.
I will check out a couple of things in DOS Mode from a Win98se boot floppy to ensure that they work, and then post my suggestions.
Merete's suggestion of connecting the drive as a slave in a functional computer and copying out files in Windows mode makes sense. because your computer is not bootable to Windows, backups will have to be made from DOS, which can be long-handed and annoying. Hoever, there won't be that many things that you cannot easily recreate again.
I will check out a couple of things in DOS Mode from a Win98se boot floppy to ensure that they work, and then post my suggestions.
ASKER
As I proceed through your set of recommendations, I will be presenting my confusions.
I had thought that I would have to give special attention and effort to installing the chipset drivers requiring getting the Intel Chipset Identification Utility, and downloading specific drivers and installing them but am confused because it looks as if, instead, all that trouble can actually be avoided by the following statements of yours:
".... Windows98SE HAS ALL the resources on the CD to install basic versions of the required chipset drivers WITHOUT any user intervention" and you go on to say that this can be done as long as the CD is still in the drive.
So, was I just getting worried about this aspect of the installation for nothing and it is actually, more or less, taken care of automatically?
I had thought that I would have to give special attention and effort to installing the chipset drivers requiring getting the Intel Chipset Identification Utility, and downloading specific drivers and installing them but am confused because it looks as if, instead, all that trouble can actually be avoided by the following statements of yours:
".... Windows98SE HAS ALL the resources on the CD to install basic versions of the required chipset drivers WITHOUT any user intervention" and you go on to say that this can be done as long as the CD is still in the drive.
So, was I just getting worried about this aspect of the installation for nothing and it is actually, more or less, taken care of automatically?
From experience with standard Intel branded 440LX (Pentium II) to BX (Pentium III) motherboards, and most independent ones based on that chipset, I have found that Windows 98se automatically installs the drivers that allow full functionality. In other words, I am fairly sure that you won't be asked to provide any other CD's as it finds the actual motherboard hardware during the installation process.
The Intel support site offers downloads of the chipset drivers (referred to as the "INF Installer") that will be far more recent than those installed by Windows 98se. These are fairly universal and also support for quite a few other more recent Intel chipsets, so the updated content in them usually isn't significant in relation to older motherboards with the 440 chipsets. In other words, they are just updated by the addition of support for newer chipsets, although there may be the odd tweak on some of the older .INF files that it installs.
I normally install the most recent "Inf Installer" just to cover the possibility that some minor updates have been added that are relevant to the motherboard, even though the motherboard seems to be running OK with what Win98se installed.
The reason I suggested the Intel Chipset Identification Tool was just as a final double-check AFTER you install Windows but BEFORE you install the more recent "Inf Installer" (chipset drivers) downloaded from Intel.
I mentioned earlier that the "Chipset ID Utility" SHOULD identify it as "440BX AGPset", and I stressed that IF IT DOESN'T, then NOT TO install the chipset "Inf Installer" that I provided the download link for, ie. :
Version 3.20.1008 5/6/2002
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/4241/a08/infinst_enu.exe
If you look at the "Readme" file for that download:
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/4241/ENG/readme.txt
You will see the supported chipsets listed under Chapter 2. The list starts with the 440 family (oldest), and the ones at the bottom of the list are the newer ones (ie. right up to Pentium 4 motherboards) that have been added to the "Inf Installer" as it has been updated. It makes for a much larger download than if it was just for the 440 chipset family, but it means only one download for a great many motherboards.
In other words, as long as the Chipset ID Utility reports ANY of those chipsets listed in the Readme, then you can just double-click on the downloaded "infinst_enu.exe" after windows setup finishes, and follow the prompts to install the "chipset drivers" and reboot. That would update the system to allow for the most recent hardware support for your motherboard. It could well be the case that it doesn't actually update anything from what Win98se did, but I suggest that you install it anyway.
It would normally be the first thing I would install after Windows setup finishes and reboots that last time, although occasionally Windows may detect the graphics device and need to install the driver for that first.
Bill
The Intel support site offers downloads of the chipset drivers (referred to as the "INF Installer") that will be far more recent than those installed by Windows 98se. These are fairly universal and also support for quite a few other more recent Intel chipsets, so the updated content in them usually isn't significant in relation to older motherboards with the 440 chipsets. In other words, they are just updated by the addition of support for newer chipsets, although there may be the odd tweak on some of the older .INF files that it installs.
I normally install the most recent "Inf Installer" just to cover the possibility that some minor updates have been added that are relevant to the motherboard, even though the motherboard seems to be running OK with what Win98se installed.
The reason I suggested the Intel Chipset Identification Tool was just as a final double-check AFTER you install Windows but BEFORE you install the more recent "Inf Installer" (chipset drivers) downloaded from Intel.
I mentioned earlier that the "Chipset ID Utility" SHOULD identify it as "440BX AGPset", and I stressed that IF IT DOESN'T, then NOT TO install the chipset "Inf Installer" that I provided the download link for, ie. :
Version 3.20.1008 5/6/2002
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/4241/a08/infinst_enu.exe
If you look at the "Readme" file for that download:
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/4241/ENG/readme.txt
You will see the supported chipsets listed under Chapter 2. The list starts with the 440 family (oldest), and the ones at the bottom of the list are the newer ones (ie. right up to Pentium 4 motherboards) that have been added to the "Inf Installer" as it has been updated. It makes for a much larger download than if it was just for the 440 chipset family, but it means only one download for a great many motherboards.
In other words, as long as the Chipset ID Utility reports ANY of those chipsets listed in the Readme, then you can just double-click on the downloaded "infinst_enu.exe" after windows setup finishes, and follow the prompts to install the "chipset drivers" and reboot. That would update the system to allow for the most recent hardware support for your motherboard. It could well be the case that it doesn't actually update anything from what Win98se did, but I suggest that you install it anyway.
It would normally be the first thing I would install after Windows setup finishes and reboots that last time, although occasionally Windows may detect the graphics device and need to install the driver for that first.
Bill
I should also have mentioned that the other reason for the "Intel Inf Installer" being updated progressively is because it has the files for other Windows versions. When your 440BX motherboard was released, Windows 98 was new, but it is possible to install Windows 95, 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, and XP on that same system, so the installer package contains resources for all of those operating systems.
This isn't something that should concern you though. It just explains why there have been various releases of the chipset installation package over the years.
This isn't something that should concern you though. It just explains why there have been various releases of the chipset installation package over the years.
ASKER
Again, Bill, sorry for the delays but I should be able to post again within the next 48 hrs.
No problem, Bob. Hope the Vertigo is staying at bay.
ASKER
Bill, you know, these last 12 months haven't been a very good years-time for me. I was just getting ready to post to you (as a matter of fact I told you I would do so within 48 hrs) and I swear to you that I'm telling the truth but on the 20th, I tripped and fell, striking my head, and was hospitalized again until yesterday. I'm not trying to make lame excuses for not getting back to you to bring all this to a conclusion.
Bob
Bob
Bob, a "contusion" is far more pressing than a "conclusion" right now :-)
Look after yourself until you feel up to continuing with this problem.
Bill
Look after yourself until you feel up to continuing with this problem.
Bill
ASKER
Bill, I have returned to the Trend Micro Internet Security 2006 for protection on the borrowed computer. Bear with me and I’ll connect this up to the new installation that I want on my own computer. Trend Micro brought up a 'Vulnerability Check' that showed 24 Microsoft vulnerabilities on the borrowed computer’s system. It offered a button “Run Windows Update” which, when clicked took me to the following page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/isapi/redir.dll
On that page there were five links, the most useful of which looked like:
Find Out About the Latest Security Updates
Microsoft Windows Update: Downloads for Windows
When I clicked on either of those choices, it finally gave me the following messages:
A short interim message that went by too quickly to read
Followed by the next message:
Software Update Incomplete
The Windows Update software did not update successfully. Below are some suggestions to help you proceed:
· You may have clicked No when prompted to accept the Trust Certificate. To allow the Windows Update site software to install, click Yes when presented with the Security Warning dialog box.
· Your Internet Explorer security settings may be set too high. To install the updated software and access Windows Update, Internet Explorer security must be set to medium or lower, and active scripting and the download and initialization of ActiveX controls must be enabled.
Note These are the default settings for Internet Explorer. For more information about Internet Explorer security and instructions on how to change your security settings, read Microsoft Knowledge Base (KB) Article Q174360.
Were these suggestions helpful? Send us your feedback
In the first place I was not given an opportunity to click acceptance of the Trust Certificate since that choice was not offered me.
I did make the Internet Explorer security settings changes advised but none of that changed the above-described process.
The same pages were presented when I, instead, clicked on the Start>Windows Update menu item with the same consequences as above.
So my concern, here, is that even though this happened on the borrowed computer that Microsoft has shut down some facilities for Windows Update since it is now Feb, 2006. I know that you left a number of download links to critical updates in your recommendations for Windows Updates but wonder if the above description would warrant any different handling of the update problem? But actually, I don't know whether my computer would also follow this "new" process or would still behave with a standard Update.
Bob
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/isapi/redir.dll
On that page there were five links, the most useful of which looked like:
Find Out About the Latest Security Updates
Microsoft Windows Update: Downloads for Windows
When I clicked on either of those choices, it finally gave me the following messages:
A short interim message that went by too quickly to read
Followed by the next message:
Software Update Incomplete
The Windows Update software did not update successfully. Below are some suggestions to help you proceed:
· You may have clicked No when prompted to accept the Trust Certificate. To allow the Windows Update site software to install, click Yes when presented with the Security Warning dialog box.
· Your Internet Explorer security settings may be set too high. To install the updated software and access Windows Update, Internet Explorer security must be set to medium or lower, and active scripting and the download and initialization of ActiveX controls must be enabled.
Note These are the default settings for Internet Explorer. For more information about Internet Explorer security and instructions on how to change your security settings, read Microsoft Knowledge Base (KB) Article Q174360.
Were these suggestions helpful? Send us your feedback
In the first place I was not given an opportunity to click acceptance of the Trust Certificate since that choice was not offered me.
I did make the Internet Explorer security settings changes advised but none of that changed the above-described process.
The same pages were presented when I, instead, clicked on the Start>Windows Update menu item with the same consequences as above.
So my concern, here, is that even though this happened on the borrowed computer that Microsoft has shut down some facilities for Windows Update since it is now Feb, 2006. I know that you left a number of download links to critical updates in your recommendations for Windows Updates but wonder if the above description would warrant any different handling of the update problem? But actually, I don't know whether my computer would also follow this "new" process or would still behave with a standard Update.
Bob
Hi Bob
Windows Update is still perfectly functional for all Windows 98/98SE updates, but running Windows update on a borrowed computer is only going to download and install any ADDITIONAL updates not already installed on THAT computer. You will obviously (as I'm sure you will realise) need to do another new Windows Update once you reinstall Win98se to your own computer.
Windows Update has to install what is known as an "ActiveX" Control, in the same way that sites like "PC Pitstop" allow you to run online health checks. (Note: this is NOT a recommendation of that site).
As an example, go to http://www.pcpitstop.com/pcpitstop/default.asp and click on the "Having Trouble" bell icon.
It should then pop up a prompt to "install and run the pcpitstop utility".
If you clicked NO, it would resolve to another troubleshooting page.
If you clicked YES, then it would install the certificate of trust, and then download and install the ActiveX control needed to run the online check.
If you ALSO ticked the "Always trust content from P.C. Pitstop LLC", then you would NOT see that prompt if you ever ran that same online function, OR if you used one of their other online utilities. It would just install and run the ActiveX control without prompting you.
If you have ever used one of the "MSN Community" sites to host a basic web page of your own, then you would be aware that you need to install the "Windows Upload Control" (ActiveX control) before it allows you to upload your own photo's to the site.
Most of these "controls" are installed to the folder "C:\Windows\Downloaded Program Files", but all you will see in that folder are icons that provide the means to view the "Properties" of the Control (ie. the whole package). You will not see the individual files.
For example, Macromedia will install an ActiveX control that will appear as an icon named "Shockwave Flash Object". This is used when you open a page containing Macromedia Flash content, and it either determines that you don't have Flash installed, or it is an old version.
Right-Click on it, and check its "properties", and you will see a URL shown against "CodeBase".
You can scroll over this url, and press Ctrl and C to copy it. In this example it is:
http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab
Paste that into the address bar of Internet Explorer (Ctrl and V) and click the "Go" button.
Choose to SAVE the target, and it will download "swflash.cab" to wherever you tell it to save the file.
Extract the contents to its own folder with Winzip, and you will see the components that are installed.
In the case of Windows Update, you should see an icon in the "Downloaded Program Files" folder named "Update Class", and the properties will show a url like this:
http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/CAB/x86/ansi/iuctl.CAB?38424.8930787037
If you were to download the file "iuctl.cab" and unpack it, you would have 3 files - two DLL's and one INF file that tells the process to copy the DLL's to the C:\Windows\System folder, and then "register" them.
It MIGHT be possible to install the Windows Update Control manually by Right-Clicking the file iuctl.inf and choosing "Install". It SHOULD also be possible (IF the icon named "Update Class" exists in the "Downloaded program Files folder) to Right-Click on that icon and choose "Update" to refresh the files.
There is one registry setting that will stop Windows Update from running, and it will come back with a message about not having administrative rights if Windows Update has been disabled in this way. In fact, I have a DOS Batch file through which I can "toggle" Windows Update On or Off by having it change that registry setting.
Open REGEDIT on the computer and navigate down the LEFT hand pane to the key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
Look in the RIGHT-hand pane for the two values "NoDevMgrUpdate" and "NoWindowsUpdate".
If either of them show the values 0x00000001 (1) then Windows Update has been disabled.
To re-enable it, just double-click on both of those named values and change the 1 to a 0 (zero) in the data value field.
The effect should be immediate when Regedit is closed, but I always recommend a reboot.
In your case, it sounds as though the "Always trust content from Microsoft" has been ticked at some point, and therefore you wouldn't be prompted to download and install the certificate for Windows Update.
It could be that one or more of the default "Root Certificates" have been removed from that system since it was installed. You can download the package that will refresh them all in Windows 98/98SE and Me:
http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/v3/static/trustedr/en/rootsupd.exe
Give that a go (note: it runs quickly will no user feedback), and then reboot.
Hopefully this will allow Windows Update to run properly.
You should also note that, when Windows Update runs, it creates a very handy log file named "Windows Update.log" in the C:\Windows folder. This is a cumulative log, but it contains a lot of direct download links from which you can separately download the individual packages to later install the updates on another computer. If you paste the contents of the log into an email in Outlook Express, it should convert the download url's into functional links after you remove all the extraneous lines.
You are looking to separate blocks like this into legible text:
2005-03-20 19:36:11 19:36:11 Success IUENGINE Downloaded file http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/v3-19990518/cabpool/JS56_15B3577990DA7650A1E79DCAA51851CD0E041639.EXE
2005-03-20 19:36:11 19:36:11 Success IUENGINE Local path c:\WUTemp\com_microsoft.Js
Converted, and then saved as an email or web page, you will have separate links like this:
Downloaded file (microsoft Jscript 5.6):
http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/v3-19990518/cabpool/JS56_15B3577990DA7650A1E79DCAA51851CD0E041639.EXE
The long names can be a bit confusing, eg the Microsof Data Access Control Update:
http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/v3-19990518/cabpool/q329414_mdacall_x86_6455F9E15D1FD876A354AC196BCE848B4EA39180.exe
Just look at the "Local path" line, and you will see:
c:\WUTemp\com_microsoft.Q3
The "Q" number (ie. Q329414 in this case) or a "KB" number will be the key to ascertaining what the update is. Just look up Q329414 in Google, or from a Microsoft Page and you'll quickly find the reference so you can create an appropriately named folder to download the file to:
MS02-065: Buffer overrun in Microsoft Data Access Components can lead to code execution
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q329414
You can rename the updates with more intuitive names so you know what they are, or just place them in separate folders that you can burn to CD. The only caveat, and this is something that is handled properly by Windows Update, is that some updates can undo a previous one, so some have to be installed in a certain order.
By far your best bet is to install Internet Explorer 6 SP1, and THEN run Windows Update.
Firstly, choose ONLY the "Critical" updates, and these will be the "Cumulative Updates" for IE 6 and OE 6.
After that, look and see what other relevant updates are listed.
Hope this helps.
Windows Update is still perfectly functional for all Windows 98/98SE updates, but running Windows update on a borrowed computer is only going to download and install any ADDITIONAL updates not already installed on THAT computer. You will obviously (as I'm sure you will realise) need to do another new Windows Update once you reinstall Win98se to your own computer.
Windows Update has to install what is known as an "ActiveX" Control, in the same way that sites like "PC Pitstop" allow you to run online health checks. (Note: this is NOT a recommendation of that site).
As an example, go to http://www.pcpitstop.com/pcpitstop/default.asp and click on the "Having Trouble" bell icon.
It should then pop up a prompt to "install and run the pcpitstop utility".
If you clicked NO, it would resolve to another troubleshooting page.
If you clicked YES, then it would install the certificate of trust, and then download and install the ActiveX control needed to run the online check.
If you ALSO ticked the "Always trust content from P.C. Pitstop LLC", then you would NOT see that prompt if you ever ran that same online function, OR if you used one of their other online utilities. It would just install and run the ActiveX control without prompting you.
If you have ever used one of the "MSN Community" sites to host a basic web page of your own, then you would be aware that you need to install the "Windows Upload Control" (ActiveX control) before it allows you to upload your own photo's to the site.
Most of these "controls" are installed to the folder "C:\Windows\Downloaded Program Files", but all you will see in that folder are icons that provide the means to view the "Properties" of the Control (ie. the whole package). You will not see the individual files.
For example, Macromedia will install an ActiveX control that will appear as an icon named "Shockwave Flash Object". This is used when you open a page containing Macromedia Flash content, and it either determines that you don't have Flash installed, or it is an old version.
Right-Click on it, and check its "properties", and you will see a URL shown against "CodeBase".
You can scroll over this url, and press Ctrl and C to copy it. In this example it is:
http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab
Paste that into the address bar of Internet Explorer (Ctrl and V) and click the "Go" button.
Choose to SAVE the target, and it will download "swflash.cab" to wherever you tell it to save the file.
Extract the contents to its own folder with Winzip, and you will see the components that are installed.
In the case of Windows Update, you should see an icon in the "Downloaded Program Files" folder named "Update Class", and the properties will show a url like this:
http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/CAB/x86/ansi/iuctl.CAB?38424.8930787037
If you were to download the file "iuctl.cab" and unpack it, you would have 3 files - two DLL's and one INF file that tells the process to copy the DLL's to the C:\Windows\System folder, and then "register" them.
It MIGHT be possible to install the Windows Update Control manually by Right-Clicking the file iuctl.inf and choosing "Install". It SHOULD also be possible (IF the icon named "Update Class" exists in the "Downloaded program Files folder) to Right-Click on that icon and choose "Update" to refresh the files.
There is one registry setting that will stop Windows Update from running, and it will come back with a message about not having administrative rights if Windows Update has been disabled in this way. In fact, I have a DOS Batch file through which I can "toggle" Windows Update On or Off by having it change that registry setting.
Open REGEDIT on the computer and navigate down the LEFT hand pane to the key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
Look in the RIGHT-hand pane for the two values "NoDevMgrUpdate" and "NoWindowsUpdate".
If either of them show the values 0x00000001 (1) then Windows Update has been disabled.
To re-enable it, just double-click on both of those named values and change the 1 to a 0 (zero) in the data value field.
The effect should be immediate when Regedit is closed, but I always recommend a reboot.
In your case, it sounds as though the "Always trust content from Microsoft" has been ticked at some point, and therefore you wouldn't be prompted to download and install the certificate for Windows Update.
It could be that one or more of the default "Root Certificates" have been removed from that system since it was installed. You can download the package that will refresh them all in Windows 98/98SE and Me:
http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/v3/static/trustedr/en/rootsupd.exe
Give that a go (note: it runs quickly will no user feedback), and then reboot.
Hopefully this will allow Windows Update to run properly.
You should also note that, when Windows Update runs, it creates a very handy log file named "Windows Update.log" in the C:\Windows folder. This is a cumulative log, but it contains a lot of direct download links from which you can separately download the individual packages to later install the updates on another computer. If you paste the contents of the log into an email in Outlook Express, it should convert the download url's into functional links after you remove all the extraneous lines.
You are looking to separate blocks like this into legible text:
2005-03-20 19:36:11 19:36:11 Success IUENGINE Downloaded file http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/v3-19990518/cabpool/JS56_15B3577990DA7650A1E79DCAA51851CD0E041639.EXE
2005-03-20 19:36:11 19:36:11 Success IUENGINE Local path c:\WUTemp\com_microsoft.Js
Converted, and then saved as an email or web page, you will have separate links like this:
Downloaded file (microsoft Jscript 5.6):
http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/v3-19990518/cabpool/JS56_15B3577990DA7650A1E79DCAA51851CD0E041639.EXE
The long names can be a bit confusing, eg the Microsof Data Access Control Update:
http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/v3-19990518/cabpool/q329414_mdacall_x86_6455F9E15D1FD876A354AC196BCE848B4EA39180.exe
Just look at the "Local path" line, and you will see:
c:\WUTemp\com_microsoft.Q3
The "Q" number (ie. Q329414 in this case) or a "KB" number will be the key to ascertaining what the update is. Just look up Q329414 in Google, or from a Microsoft Page and you'll quickly find the reference so you can create an appropriately named folder to download the file to:
MS02-065: Buffer overrun in Microsoft Data Access Components can lead to code execution
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q329414
You can rename the updates with more intuitive names so you know what they are, or just place them in separate folders that you can burn to CD. The only caveat, and this is something that is handled properly by Windows Update, is that some updates can undo a previous one, so some have to be installed in a certain order.
By far your best bet is to install Internet Explorer 6 SP1, and THEN run Windows Update.
Firstly, choose ONLY the "Critical" updates, and these will be the "Cumulative Updates" for IE 6 and OE 6.
After that, look and see what other relevant updates are listed.
Hope this helps.
Oh, and I didn't directly address your concerns about the possible future non-availability of updates via Windows Update.
The honest answer is that I don't know what the position will be.
I think that you will still be able to update all the updates developed up to the cut-off date, but that Microsoft just won't develop any further updates and add them to Windows Update.
That's where redundancy creeps in, as NEW vulnerabilities may be discovered. To be realistic, however, if you install IE6 SP1 and then run Windows Update now, you are going to be as well covered as you are ever likely to need until you get around to installing Windows XP.
After Windows Update completes, DON'T close ther Internet Explorer window when prompted to reboot.
Instead, open Windows Explorer, navigate to the folders:
C:\Windows\Temporary Internet Files
C:\WUTemp
and COPY the .exe files out into a neutral folder.
That way, you have the separate downloads that were used. When you close IE and reboot, they are removed otherwise.
The honest answer is that I don't know what the position will be.
I think that you will still be able to update all the updates developed up to the cut-off date, but that Microsoft just won't develop any further updates and add them to Windows Update.
That's where redundancy creeps in, as NEW vulnerabilities may be discovered. To be realistic, however, if you install IE6 SP1 and then run Windows Update now, you are going to be as well covered as you are ever likely to need until you get around to installing Windows XP.
After Windows Update completes, DON'T close ther Internet Explorer window when prompted to reboot.
Instead, open Windows Explorer, navigate to the folders:
C:\Windows\Temporary Internet Files
C:\WUTemp
and COPY the .exe files out into a neutral folder.
That way, you have the separate downloads that were used. When you close IE and reboot, they are removed otherwise.
ASKER
Bill,
Question 1:
May I accurately summarize your statements of the last posts about my concern that the altered and nonfunctional behavior of Windows Update on the borrowed computer I am using will not exist at all for the newly installed operating system on my own computer?
To do a little troubleshooting on the borrowed computer, if you will allow it, I have the following questions:
Question A1:
Since that topic is only indirectly is related to reinstalling my operating system, may I ask questions about the Windows Update malfunction on the borrowed computer? Please say “Yes” or “No.”
If your answer is “Yes” I have the following questions:
On checking in regedit on the borrowed computer, the following entries were found:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
And
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
But there was no …\Policies\Explorer folder
Question A2:
So, since there is no folder named Explorer, in which the values of 'NoDevMgrUpdate' or 'NoWindowsUpdate' is set to 0x00000001 does that mean that 'Windows Update' has not been disabled or stating it another way since the folder, Explorer, does not exist can I assume that there will be nothing that could even turn 'Windows Update' off?
Question A3:
If necessary, how would I go about establishing a folder, Explorer, and place the values NoDevMgrUpdate and NoWindowsUpdate in it?
I ran rootsund.exe (the program that refreshes the Root Certificates if I am correct) but found no corrected behavior on the borrowed computer in Windows Update after rebooting.
Question A4:
It sounded as if just this refreshing should be able to restore the functionality to the Windows Update. Did I misunderstand?
Bob
Question 1:
May I accurately summarize your statements of the last posts about my concern that the altered and nonfunctional behavior of Windows Update on the borrowed computer I am using will not exist at all for the newly installed operating system on my own computer?
To do a little troubleshooting on the borrowed computer, if you will allow it, I have the following questions:
Question A1:
Since that topic is only indirectly is related to reinstalling my operating system, may I ask questions about the Windows Update malfunction on the borrowed computer? Please say “Yes” or “No.”
If your answer is “Yes” I have the following questions:
On checking in regedit on the borrowed computer, the following entries were found:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
And
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
But there was no …\Policies\Explorer folder
Question A2:
So, since there is no folder named Explorer, in which the values of 'NoDevMgrUpdate' or 'NoWindowsUpdate' is set to 0x00000001 does that mean that 'Windows Update' has not been disabled or stating it another way since the folder, Explorer, does not exist can I assume that there will be nothing that could even turn 'Windows Update' off?
Question A3:
If necessary, how would I go about establishing a folder, Explorer, and place the values NoDevMgrUpdate and NoWindowsUpdate in it?
I ran rootsund.exe (the program that refreshes the Root Certificates if I am correct) but found no corrected behavior on the borrowed computer in Windows Update after rebooting.
Question A4:
It sounded as if just this refreshing should be able to restore the functionality to the Windows Update. Did I misunderstand?
Bob
Hi Bob.
Working backwards in anser to your questions.
Restoring/Refreshing the installed "Root Certificates" was just the first logical thing to try, more as a process of elimination than anything else, but always with the hope that it would rectify the problem. Not to worry though, at least that potential area has been addressed now.
The "Policies" key in the Windows 98 Registry exists so that certain functions can be restricted. Windows 98 Resource Kit contains a basic "Policy Editor", which is a delimited version of the tool used by network administrators to restrict or allow certain users to do specific things, or apply restrictions to specific terminals on a network, or on a global scale that affect all users of one or more computers.
The sub-keys like Explorer, Network, Ratings, etc, are usually created on demand when a restriction for that area of functionality is imposed. "Policies" aren't only imposed by administrators, or through the "Policy Editor", but can be created by a user like yourself changing or applying a configuration setting.
Only the odd user-changeable setting is actually effected as a "policy". The most common way that such restrictions are added to the "Policies" keys in the registry is by using a tweaking utility that allows you to change settings that are not normally made available to users without manually editing the registry. TweakUI is one of those utilities that can apply settings as "policies" in the registry.
Examples:
"NoRecentDocsHistory"=hex:
"NoActiveDesktop"=hex:01,0
"NoActiveDesktopChanges"=h
"NoLogoff"=hex:01,00,00,00
"ClearRecentDocsOnExit"=he
"NoFavoritesMenu"=hex:01,0
"NoNetHood"=hex:01,00,00,0
"CDRAutoRun"=hex:00,00,00,
"ClassicShell"=hex:00,00,0
"NoSaveSettings"=dword:000
"NoTrayContextMenu"=dword:
The restrictions set or enabled by these values are quite apparent by their names.
The only value you are looking for is "NoWindowsUpdate".
If it doesn't exist in the registry, then something else is preventing Windows Update.
I mentioned another value named "NoDevMgrUpdate" previously. Although this one can also be used to prevent Windows Update, it is used ONLY for the additional ability of allowing Windows Update to search for more recent device drivers if it detects that eg. the Sound Card Drivers are older than those available from Windows Update. Usually, however, the versions that would be downloaded and automatically installed are more basic drivers.
This registry value is discussed fully here:
http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb;en-us;253791
The items shown in the list above as "hex=00,00,00,00" or hex=01,00,00,00" are "binary" values that show with the same icon as "dword" values in regedit, but changing them from a 1 to zero, or vice-versa, is the same principle.
The layout shown in the list is as the values would be seen in a .REG or .TXT file that has been exported from regedit.
Laid out in the right-hand pane in regedit, however, these same values will show to you as follows:
NoRecentDocsHistory 00 00 00 00
NoActiveDesktop 01 00 00 00
NoActiveDesktopChanges 01 00 00 00
NoLogoff 01 00 00 00
ClearRecentDocsOnExit 00 00 00 00
NoFavoritesMenu 01 00 00 00
NoNetHood 01 00 00 00
CDRAutoRun 00 00 00 00
ClassicShell 00 00 00 00
NoWindowsUpdate 0x00000001 (1)
NoSaveSettings 0x00000000 (0)
NoTrayContextMenu 0x00000000 (0)
It should be noted that the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE master key holds settings that are machine-specific and, with particular reference to restrictive settings, contains settings that are global (ie. applied to any user who logs into that computer.
The HKEY_CURRENT_USER master key in the registry is the one that holds settings that relate to the currently logged on user. On a single user profile Win98 computer that just boots to the desktop without asking for a password or login name, the settings in that key will always be applied to whoever turns the computer on. In general, any restictions ("policies" or otherwise) in the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE key will override those in the HKEY_CURRENT_USER key.
So, you looked in regedit at the key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
but could not see a sub-key named "Explorer".
What you should now do is see whether there is an "Explorer" key shown in regedit under the key:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software
If found, you should look in the right-hand pane to see if the value named "NoWindowsUpdate" exists there. If it does, then it is a simple job of changing the value from a 1 to a zero as previously described (ie. to disable the restriction).
If you see the "NoWindowsUpdate" value, it will show as:
NoWindowsUpdate 0x00000001 (1)
IF Windows Update has been disabled, or
NoWindowsUpdate 0x00000000 (0)
if it is not being disabled (ie. Windows Update is fully enabled) from this registry value.
Bill
Working backwards in anser to your questions.
Restoring/Refreshing the installed "Root Certificates" was just the first logical thing to try, more as a process of elimination than anything else, but always with the hope that it would rectify the problem. Not to worry though, at least that potential area has been addressed now.
The "Policies" key in the Windows 98 Registry exists so that certain functions can be restricted. Windows 98 Resource Kit contains a basic "Policy Editor", which is a delimited version of the tool used by network administrators to restrict or allow certain users to do specific things, or apply restrictions to specific terminals on a network, or on a global scale that affect all users of one or more computers.
The sub-keys like Explorer, Network, Ratings, etc, are usually created on demand when a restriction for that area of functionality is imposed. "Policies" aren't only imposed by administrators, or through the "Policy Editor", but can be created by a user like yourself changing or applying a configuration setting.
Only the odd user-changeable setting is actually effected as a "policy". The most common way that such restrictions are added to the "Policies" keys in the registry is by using a tweaking utility that allows you to change settings that are not normally made available to users without manually editing the registry. TweakUI is one of those utilities that can apply settings as "policies" in the registry.
Examples:
"NoRecentDocsHistory"=hex:
"NoActiveDesktop"=hex:01,0
"NoActiveDesktopChanges"=h
"NoLogoff"=hex:01,00,00,00
"ClearRecentDocsOnExit"=he
"NoFavoritesMenu"=hex:01,0
"NoNetHood"=hex:01,00,00,0
"CDRAutoRun"=hex:00,00,00,
"ClassicShell"=hex:00,00,0
"NoSaveSettings"=dword:000
"NoTrayContextMenu"=dword:
The restrictions set or enabled by these values are quite apparent by their names.
The only value you are looking for is "NoWindowsUpdate".
If it doesn't exist in the registry, then something else is preventing Windows Update.
I mentioned another value named "NoDevMgrUpdate" previously. Although this one can also be used to prevent Windows Update, it is used ONLY for the additional ability of allowing Windows Update to search for more recent device drivers if it detects that eg. the Sound Card Drivers are older than those available from Windows Update. Usually, however, the versions that would be downloaded and automatically installed are more basic drivers.
This registry value is discussed fully here:
http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb;en-us;253791
The items shown in the list above as "hex=00,00,00,00" or hex=01,00,00,00" are "binary" values that show with the same icon as "dword" values in regedit, but changing them from a 1 to zero, or vice-versa, is the same principle.
The layout shown in the list is as the values would be seen in a .REG or .TXT file that has been exported from regedit.
Laid out in the right-hand pane in regedit, however, these same values will show to you as follows:
NoRecentDocsHistory 00 00 00 00
NoActiveDesktop 01 00 00 00
NoActiveDesktopChanges 01 00 00 00
NoLogoff 01 00 00 00
ClearRecentDocsOnExit 00 00 00 00
NoFavoritesMenu 01 00 00 00
NoNetHood 01 00 00 00
CDRAutoRun 00 00 00 00
ClassicShell 00 00 00 00
NoWindowsUpdate 0x00000001 (1)
NoSaveSettings 0x00000000 (0)
NoTrayContextMenu 0x00000000 (0)
It should be noted that the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE master key holds settings that are machine-specific and, with particular reference to restrictive settings, contains settings that are global (ie. applied to any user who logs into that computer.
The HKEY_CURRENT_USER master key in the registry is the one that holds settings that relate to the currently logged on user. On a single user profile Win98 computer that just boots to the desktop without asking for a password or login name, the settings in that key will always be applied to whoever turns the computer on. In general, any restictions ("policies" or otherwise) in the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE key will override those in the HKEY_CURRENT_USER key.
So, you looked in regedit at the key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Softwar
but could not see a sub-key named "Explorer".
What you should now do is see whether there is an "Explorer" key shown in regedit under the key:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software
If found, you should look in the right-hand pane to see if the value named "NoWindowsUpdate" exists there. If it does, then it is a simple job of changing the value from a 1 to a zero as previously described (ie. to disable the restriction).
If you see the "NoWindowsUpdate" value, it will show as:
NoWindowsUpdate 0x00000001 (1)
IF Windows Update has been disabled, or
NoWindowsUpdate 0x00000000 (0)
if it is not being disabled (ie. Windows Update is fully enabled) from this registry value.
Bill
ASKER
Hello Bill,
Since you were working backwards I thought you might be waiting to answer Question 1, so excuse me for paraphrasing it since in the matter of the reinstallation, it seemed the most important:
Can I accurately summarize your statements of the previous posts regarding the malfunctions in regard to the Windows Update on the borrowed computer, that Windows Update will perform in a normal manner after reinstallation of the operating system on my home computer?
Thanks.
Bob
Since you were working backwards I thought you might be waiting to answer Question 1, so excuse me for paraphrasing it since in the matter of the reinstallation, it seemed the most important:
Can I accurately summarize your statements of the previous posts regarding the malfunctions in regard to the Windows Update on the borrowed computer, that Windows Update will perform in a normal manner after reinstallation of the operating system on my home computer?
Thanks.
Bob
Yes, sorry about not addressing that issue directly.
There seems to be some kind of restriction or anomaly with the borrowed computer which could easily be a user setting created by someone who just doesn't want Windows Update to be enabled.
On a freshly installed Win98 system, no such restrictions will be in place, all the registry settings and default Microsoft url's will be as standard, and Windows Update will be accessible as it should be.
There seems to be some kind of restriction or anomaly with the borrowed computer which could easily be a user setting created by someone who just doesn't want Windows Update to be enabled.
On a freshly installed Win98 system, no such restrictions will be in place, all the registry settings and default Microsoft url's will be as standard, and Windows Update will be accessible as it should be.
ASKER
Bill, currently I'm working on collecting suggested drivers and trying to be sure that I've made all the needed backups before proceeding to the actual operating system reinstallation.
One possible potential problem I have thought about is the following:
My computer is now about 6 years old and I have never changed the CMOS battery (if that is the proper terminology) in that time nor have I received any system notification of trouble from a weak battery (if such are given.)
Question 1:
Is this of any concern for the integrity of my system? I'd hate to go through that reinstallation process and have it go for nought because of a battery replacement I should have made but didn't.
Question 2:
My understanding is that the only type of thing that might occur in case that battery went out is loss of timing that the computer uses to properly date files such as documents, etc. and possibly scheduled events could not occur. Am I corrrect?
Bob
One possible potential problem I have thought about is the following:
My computer is now about 6 years old and I have never changed the CMOS battery (if that is the proper terminology) in that time nor have I received any system notification of trouble from a weak battery (if such are given.)
Question 1:
Is this of any concern for the integrity of my system? I'd hate to go through that reinstallation process and have it go for nought because of a battery replacement I should have made but didn't.
Question 2:
My understanding is that the only type of thing that might occur in case that battery went out is loss of timing that the computer uses to properly date files such as documents, etc. and possibly scheduled events could not occur. Am I corrrect?
Bob
That's good news, Bob. Glad you are feeling well enough at the moment to resume the job.
The CMOS Battery (Coin-Cell) is most often a CR2032 (sometimes also known as DL2032) non-rechargeable 3.0 volt Lithium model in common modern motherboards. Only the very old ones had a permanently-soldered "cell" comprising something like a compact camera battery. There isn't really a way of accurately forecasting the life expectancy, because it is only used to supply power to the CMOS RAM Memory whle the computer is powered down. The Shelf Life of such a battery seems to be 2 or 3 years while still packaged. 6 Years is most likely around the expected life of the battery, but I've got one PC in which the battery has lasted about 7 years. The CMOS RAM only needs a very small trickle of power to keep it live, hence the longevity.
http://tigerdirect.partsearch.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductSKU=4021293&ProductType=ACCS
Hardly worth buying online when you can pick one up in most large chemists and electrical/computer shops. They are used in quite a few applications, including calculators.
Just a very brief non-technical explanation of exactly what data the CMOS RAM holds. It is like the normal system memory in your computer in that it needs power to hold data. Without it, the data just dissipates from the memory. Normally this memory is incorporated into one of the other main controller chips on the motherboard. CMOS (pronounced sea-moss) is just an acronym for Complimentary Metal Oxide Semiconductor, which is (or was) a reference to the physical makeup of the memory chip used.
A lot of people refer to the BIOS as CMOS, and vice-versa, but they are not the same. The BIOS Chip is usually a separate chip of ROM (Read Only) Memory which is usually the "Flash EPROM" type (Flash-programmable Erasable/Programmable Read Only Memory). This is what is being referred to when people talk about "Flash updating the BIOS" by booting to a floppy disk and running a very low-level program that is able to write to this Read-Only memory. Older computers had socketed BIOS Chips that you replaced if you needed to upgrade the instructions. Because the memory is Read-Only, it does not rely on a power source to retain the instructions stored in it.
The BIOS Chip stores what amounts to a basic low-level operating system. In effect, it is software, but people refer to it sometimes as "Firmware", especially when referring to updating the BIOS chip on a CD-RW Drive or similar. It is better to think of the data as instructions or routines, almost like the way your body functions when it wakes up. First of all it does a Power On Self Test (POST) during which it activates the BIOS chips on other hardware, and makes sure that it knows where they are and what they are. Once it identifies the hardware, it then uses the settings from the CMOS Chip so that the system knows how to interface with them properly. After that, it acts as the intermediary between the operating system and all the binary data pulses that are fired around through the processor, memory, etc.
It is the BIOS chip that sets the limitations for how much memory can be installed in the board, how large a hard drive it can work with, etc.
Typical settings stored in the CMOS RAM are the amount of memory installed, the number and type of hard drives, floppy drives and CD drives, the number and type of Input/Output Ports (serial, parallel, SCSI, USB, etc.), the type of "system bus" in operation (ISA, PCI, EISA, etc.), and a load of settings related to this hardware.
You may have heard references to a "Plug-and-Play" system. All this means is that modern operating systems can update some of this information as the system boots. Although there are a few settings that can be changed in the CMOS from within Windows, you really have to boot into what is referred to as "Setup". I refer to this as the CMOS Setup Screen. You can boot into this screen even if there is no operating system installed, or even in the absence of a hard drive. On old systems, you had to manually configure the hard drive in the CMOS by entering all the parameters that were shown on a sticker on the drive. Nowadays (and I'm referring to the last 10 years or so) many of the CMOS Settings are set by default to "Auto", so that the boot process automatically finds out the settings from the device.
On some older Compaq computers, they compromised on the storage capacity of the CMOS RAM when others were incorporating larger memory for the newer and more extensive range of settings. What they did instead was to create a tiny hidden partition on the hard drive and install the required program that allowed you to change the settings in the CMOS. Compaq used the F10 key to access this peculiar CMOS Setup program, and the partition became known as an F10 partition. In other words, the actual setup program wasn't all in the same chip as the instructions. If unwary users deleted all the hard drive partitions (FDISK) and recreated them, then that setup program and diagnostics programs were removed, and the user had two options:
(a) boot to a special floppy containing the setup program and access/change the settings in the CMOS memory using the tools on the floppy
(b) boot the system and wait to see if it automatically re-identified the hard drive and other hardware.
In most cases, it was able to find and configure most of the hardware eventually, but the process could take a long time.
Thankfully that isn't something you have to worry about. I only mention it to exemplify the fact that if your CMOS Battery did fail, your system would most likely still be able to boot but you would have to reset the clock and the odd hardware setting from the CMOS Setup Screen each time you powered on.
All CMOS Setup Screens that I have seen have an option to "Load Setup Defaults", which will nearly always be failsafe (untweaked) settings that will allow your system to work. There will usually be another setting to load "optimum" settings, which isn't really advised because it can lead to instability. Most motherboards will also usually have 3 pins on a block that is intended to wipe out all the CMOS Settings. The idea is that, while powered off, you swap the jumper cap from its position over eg. Pins 1 and 2 over onto pins 2 and 3. There are a number of reasons that one would choose to do this, and one of them is if you Flash Upgraded the BIOS Chip and some of the old CMOS Settings may conflict if left as they were.
In YOUR particular case, your best option would be to boot into the CMOS Setup Screen for a brief look around to get the feel of it. You have to navigate (in the vast majority of setup screens) using the arrow, tab, enter, esc, pageUp and pageDown keys, and there will always be two designated keys to:
(a) Exit Setup and SAVE changes
(b) Exit Setup and DISCARD changes.
You would obviously use the option to disregard any changes after looking around. You will always see some legend on the screen to indicate these, and the navigational keys, and you will always be prompted for a choice before exiting Setup.
On exiting the CMOS Setup Screen, your system will try to boot normally, so you would leave a Win98 boot floppy in the drive if you had a problem PC 9like yours) or had formatted the hard drive where it won't find Windows to boot into.
My advice to you, if this is a concern at the moment, is to boot to the CMOS and navigate through all the options taking a note of the current settings for all of them in such a way that you would be able to reset them again after changing the battery.
A few days ago I took a risky step and changed the CMOS Battery on one motherboard without first noting all the settings. I made sure I was VERY slick, and changed the battery probably within half a second. The CMOS Settings were all retained, because the charge in the CMOS RAM did not have time to dissipate. It doesn't lose the charge immediately, but that was a risky move that I don't normally do. The board was a guinea-pig for a soldering job which, if unsuccessful, would have scrapped it anyway.
Take note of all the CMOS Settings. It's the only safe way, albeit a little laborious to do. Also, try not to handle the barry too much with oily/sweaty hands or it can cause a bit of surface oxidisation that could later cause a bad contact.
System Setup Program: Dell™ Dimension™ XPS Txxx and Txxxr :
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm
So, in summation:
Question No. 1:
The operating system, installed programs, and personal data are independent of the data held in the CMOS Memory chip. If the battery failed after you reinstalled Windows and all your programs/applications, none of them would be affected by that scenario. You just replace the battery while the system is powered down, boot to the CMOS Setup Screen and restore all the original settings again, then save the changes and exit. All the data will still be on the drive, and the hardware settings will be stored in the registry.
Question No. 2:
It would be advisable not to open and resave documents if the dates were depended on for functionality if you knew that the battery was flat and the date/time was wrong, eg. a spreadsheet that adds the current time and date to a cell and then uses that as a basis for calculations. Schedulers may also be affected, as may be your IRS records !! Remember all the panicky fears during 1999 about how the "Year 2000" might affect hospital records, etc, etc? There was the odd case of non-compliant systems going back to 1901 or whatever, and doing strange things like making appointments at pediatric clinics for 95 year olds (something along those lines anyway, it all seems so long ago now).
Don't worry, Win98se installs the Y2K update by itself.
Actually, there are a few other settings that could be lost and MAY not be autoconfigured again as the system boots with a flat CMOS battery. For instance, a parallel printer port can be set to several different bi-directional or enhanced modes, and the printer may not work as well as before if it resets to another mode. There are a few other examples I could quote, but these are the settings I advise that you note down from the CMOS Screen.
Hopefully this addresses your questions and allays your fears a bit.
The CMOS Battery (Coin-Cell) is most often a CR2032 (sometimes also known as DL2032) non-rechargeable 3.0 volt Lithium model in common modern motherboards. Only the very old ones had a permanently-soldered "cell" comprising something like a compact camera battery. There isn't really a way of accurately forecasting the life expectancy, because it is only used to supply power to the CMOS RAM Memory whle the computer is powered down. The Shelf Life of such a battery seems to be 2 or 3 years while still packaged. 6 Years is most likely around the expected life of the battery, but I've got one PC in which the battery has lasted about 7 years. The CMOS RAM only needs a very small trickle of power to keep it live, hence the longevity.
http://tigerdirect.partsearch.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductSKU=4021293&ProductType=ACCS
Hardly worth buying online when you can pick one up in most large chemists and electrical/computer shops. They are used in quite a few applications, including calculators.
Just a very brief non-technical explanation of exactly what data the CMOS RAM holds. It is like the normal system memory in your computer in that it needs power to hold data. Without it, the data just dissipates from the memory. Normally this memory is incorporated into one of the other main controller chips on the motherboard. CMOS (pronounced sea-moss) is just an acronym for Complimentary Metal Oxide Semiconductor, which is (or was) a reference to the physical makeup of the memory chip used.
A lot of people refer to the BIOS as CMOS, and vice-versa, but they are not the same. The BIOS Chip is usually a separate chip of ROM (Read Only) Memory which is usually the "Flash EPROM" type (Flash-programmable Erasable/Programmable Read Only Memory). This is what is being referred to when people talk about "Flash updating the BIOS" by booting to a floppy disk and running a very low-level program that is able to write to this Read-Only memory. Older computers had socketed BIOS Chips that you replaced if you needed to upgrade the instructions. Because the memory is Read-Only, it does not rely on a power source to retain the instructions stored in it.
The BIOS Chip stores what amounts to a basic low-level operating system. In effect, it is software, but people refer to it sometimes as "Firmware", especially when referring to updating the BIOS chip on a CD-RW Drive or similar. It is better to think of the data as instructions or routines, almost like the way your body functions when it wakes up. First of all it does a Power On Self Test (POST) during which it activates the BIOS chips on other hardware, and makes sure that it knows where they are and what they are. Once it identifies the hardware, it then uses the settings from the CMOS Chip so that the system knows how to interface with them properly. After that, it acts as the intermediary between the operating system and all the binary data pulses that are fired around through the processor, memory, etc.
It is the BIOS chip that sets the limitations for how much memory can be installed in the board, how large a hard drive it can work with, etc.
Typical settings stored in the CMOS RAM are the amount of memory installed, the number and type of hard drives, floppy drives and CD drives, the number and type of Input/Output Ports (serial, parallel, SCSI, USB, etc.), the type of "system bus" in operation (ISA, PCI, EISA, etc.), and a load of settings related to this hardware.
You may have heard references to a "Plug-and-Play" system. All this means is that modern operating systems can update some of this information as the system boots. Although there are a few settings that can be changed in the CMOS from within Windows, you really have to boot into what is referred to as "Setup". I refer to this as the CMOS Setup Screen. You can boot into this screen even if there is no operating system installed, or even in the absence of a hard drive. On old systems, you had to manually configure the hard drive in the CMOS by entering all the parameters that were shown on a sticker on the drive. Nowadays (and I'm referring to the last 10 years or so) many of the CMOS Settings are set by default to "Auto", so that the boot process automatically finds out the settings from the device.
On some older Compaq computers, they compromised on the storage capacity of the CMOS RAM when others were incorporating larger memory for the newer and more extensive range of settings. What they did instead was to create a tiny hidden partition on the hard drive and install the required program that allowed you to change the settings in the CMOS. Compaq used the F10 key to access this peculiar CMOS Setup program, and the partition became known as an F10 partition. In other words, the actual setup program wasn't all in the same chip as the instructions. If unwary users deleted all the hard drive partitions (FDISK) and recreated them, then that setup program and diagnostics programs were removed, and the user had two options:
(a) boot to a special floppy containing the setup program and access/change the settings in the CMOS memory using the tools on the floppy
(b) boot the system and wait to see if it automatically re-identified the hard drive and other hardware.
In most cases, it was able to find and configure most of the hardware eventually, but the process could take a long time.
Thankfully that isn't something you have to worry about. I only mention it to exemplify the fact that if your CMOS Battery did fail, your system would most likely still be able to boot but you would have to reset the clock and the odd hardware setting from the CMOS Setup Screen each time you powered on.
All CMOS Setup Screens that I have seen have an option to "Load Setup Defaults", which will nearly always be failsafe (untweaked) settings that will allow your system to work. There will usually be another setting to load "optimum" settings, which isn't really advised because it can lead to instability. Most motherboards will also usually have 3 pins on a block that is intended to wipe out all the CMOS Settings. The idea is that, while powered off, you swap the jumper cap from its position over eg. Pins 1 and 2 over onto pins 2 and 3. There are a number of reasons that one would choose to do this, and one of them is if you Flash Upgraded the BIOS Chip and some of the old CMOS Settings may conflict if left as they were.
In YOUR particular case, your best option would be to boot into the CMOS Setup Screen for a brief look around to get the feel of it. You have to navigate (in the vast majority of setup screens) using the arrow, tab, enter, esc, pageUp and pageDown keys, and there will always be two designated keys to:
(a) Exit Setup and SAVE changes
(b) Exit Setup and DISCARD changes.
You would obviously use the option to disregard any changes after looking around. You will always see some legend on the screen to indicate these, and the navigational keys, and you will always be prompted for a choice before exiting Setup.
On exiting the CMOS Setup Screen, your system will try to boot normally, so you would leave a Win98 boot floppy in the drive if you had a problem PC 9like yours) or had formatted the hard drive where it won't find Windows to boot into.
My advice to you, if this is a concern at the moment, is to boot to the CMOS and navigate through all the options taking a note of the current settings for all of them in such a way that you would be able to reset them again after changing the battery.
A few days ago I took a risky step and changed the CMOS Battery on one motherboard without first noting all the settings. I made sure I was VERY slick, and changed the battery probably within half a second. The CMOS Settings were all retained, because the charge in the CMOS RAM did not have time to dissipate. It doesn't lose the charge immediately, but that was a risky move that I don't normally do. The board was a guinea-pig for a soldering job which, if unsuccessful, would have scrapped it anyway.
Take note of all the CMOS Settings. It's the only safe way, albeit a little laborious to do. Also, try not to handle the barry too much with oily/sweaty hands or it can cause a bit of surface oxidisation that could later cause a bad contact.
System Setup Program: Dell™ Dimension™ XPS Txxx and Txxxr :
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm
So, in summation:
Question No. 1:
The operating system, installed programs, and personal data are independent of the data held in the CMOS Memory chip. If the battery failed after you reinstalled Windows and all your programs/applications, none of them would be affected by that scenario. You just replace the battery while the system is powered down, boot to the CMOS Setup Screen and restore all the original settings again, then save the changes and exit. All the data will still be on the drive, and the hardware settings will be stored in the registry.
Question No. 2:
It would be advisable not to open and resave documents if the dates were depended on for functionality if you knew that the battery was flat and the date/time was wrong, eg. a spreadsheet that adds the current time and date to a cell and then uses that as a basis for calculations. Schedulers may also be affected, as may be your IRS records !! Remember all the panicky fears during 1999 about how the "Year 2000" might affect hospital records, etc, etc? There was the odd case of non-compliant systems going back to 1901 or whatever, and doing strange things like making appointments at pediatric clinics for 95 year olds (something along those lines anyway, it all seems so long ago now).
Don't worry, Win98se installs the Y2K update by itself.
Actually, there are a few other settings that could be lost and MAY not be autoconfigured again as the system boots with a flat CMOS battery. For instance, a parallel printer port can be set to several different bi-directional or enhanced modes, and the printer may not work as well as before if it resets to another mode. There are a few other examples I could quote, but these are the settings I advise that you note down from the CMOS Screen.
Hopefully this addresses your questions and allays your fears a bit.
ASKER
Bill, will soon get back to clearing up loose ends brought up by your discussions. I finished the other chore I mentioned that was side-tracking my attention to this thread.
Bob
Bob
No problem, Bob, you know where I am ;-)
ASKER
Bill, I want to ask you a philosophical question regarding my foot-dragging. Would you say that once I have gotten the drivers I will need, I could, probably, proceed to install my operating system without any big problems arising that can't be handled as they are encountered?
Bob
Bob
ASKER
But this is just a general overall question so don't repeat the adequate documentation of the process which you have already given me.
Yes Bob, I reckon you should be in the position to go straight to installing Windows 98 from scratch.
You will have a much better idea now, than you perhaps had before, of issues like
1. The prompt you may see asking if you want to keep a file or have it deleted if uninstalling a program or driver (rule is KEEP! the file).
2. The way that Windows backs up files that are updated with newer versions when installing programs or drivers (ie. the backed-up files are usually restored during uninstallation, and can usually be manually restored if required).
Just remember, there aren't many problems you will face with Windows 98 that aren't insurmountable or recoverable.
Some things can look like major problems, but in many cases have very simple solutions known to those who have been fixing up Windows 98 for a number of years.
I suggest keeping the borrowed computer until you have fully reinstalled Windows on the problem computer.
You may need to ask for advice in the unlikely event that you meet up with something you don't know how to resolve at the time.
I doubt you will encounter any hurdles like this, but I would suggest asking a NEW question in the Windows 98 Topic Area asking for assistance to that immediate issue. Also add a link to that new question here so that I will receive emailed notification and may be able to fill in any blanks for other experts who would make suggestions there.
Good luck :-)
You will have a much better idea now, than you perhaps had before, of issues like
1. The prompt you may see asking if you want to keep a file or have it deleted if uninstalling a program or driver (rule is KEEP! the file).
2. The way that Windows backs up files that are updated with newer versions when installing programs or drivers (ie. the backed-up files are usually restored during uninstallation, and can usually be manually restored if required).
Just remember, there aren't many problems you will face with Windows 98 that aren't insurmountable or recoverable.
Some things can look like major problems, but in many cases have very simple solutions known to those who have been fixing up Windows 98 for a number of years.
I suggest keeping the borrowed computer until you have fully reinstalled Windows on the problem computer.
You may need to ask for advice in the unlikely event that you meet up with something you don't know how to resolve at the time.
I doubt you will encounter any hurdles like this, but I would suggest asking a NEW question in the Windows 98 Topic Area asking for assistance to that immediate issue. Also add a link to that new question here so that I will receive emailed notification and may be able to fill in any blanks for other experts who would make suggestions there.
Good luck :-)
ASKER
Hello Bill,
Your last message left me with the impression that you might still be willing to discuss the type of things we have been discussing (pre- the actual installation) and I understand that once my installation is underway, I should post as new questions regarding problems that arise. If you have had enough of me, I will understand, but there were still a finite number of loose ends.
You have, in your advice, referred on several occasions to downloading certain materials (drivers, documents, etc.) to my E: drive and also burning them to my CD for storage and safety reasons. I don't believe you knew, however, that the borrowed computer I'm using has no CD burning capability and, as far as I know, I don't believe I have any access to the CD burner on my home computer, either. I suppose, if it offers any additional safety, that I can also download to my D: drive as well.
Question 1.
Is there any alternative advice in lieu of the above?
You gave me a download link for the Voyetra Turtle Beach 64 Voice A3D Montego II Sound Card Driver set and its Readme file indicates that it is version 4.06 for the TBS Montego II AU8330 driver for Windows 98. I have a Montego II A3D installation disk and its Readme file states that it is version 4.05.2000 for the same driver. My problem arises, however, when I look at the version of the included files in each set (some of the .vxd, .dll files in each set.)
I have checked the versions of some of the files in the version 4.06 of the TBS Montego II AU8330 driver and they are, as an example, version 4.05.2000 while the version of the same file for version 4.05.2000 of the TBS Montego II AU8330 driver is 4.06.2150.
(Version 4.06 of the TBS Montego II AU8330 driver shows a file Au30mix.drv is version 4.05.2000 and Au30mix.vxd is version 4.05.2000
but Version 4.05.2000 of the TBS Montego II AU8330 driver shows a file Au30mix.drv is version 4.05.2000 and Au30mix.vxd is version 4.06.2015)
Question 2.
Since this discrepancy that an earlier version driver seems to have later version files and a later version driver has earlier versions of the same file seems peculiar to me. Is this of any concern? I would think the programmers should know what they are doing.
Bob
Your last message left me with the impression that you might still be willing to discuss the type of things we have been discussing (pre- the actual installation) and I understand that once my installation is underway, I should post as new questions regarding problems that arise. If you have had enough of me, I will understand, but there were still a finite number of loose ends.
You have, in your advice, referred on several occasions to downloading certain materials (drivers, documents, etc.) to my E: drive and also burning them to my CD for storage and safety reasons. I don't believe you knew, however, that the borrowed computer I'm using has no CD burning capability and, as far as I know, I don't believe I have any access to the CD burner on my home computer, either. I suppose, if it offers any additional safety, that I can also download to my D: drive as well.
Question 1.
Is there any alternative advice in lieu of the above?
You gave me a download link for the Voyetra Turtle Beach 64 Voice A3D Montego II Sound Card Driver set and its Readme file indicates that it is version 4.06 for the TBS Montego II AU8330 driver for Windows 98. I have a Montego II A3D installation disk and its Readme file states that it is version 4.05.2000 for the same driver. My problem arises, however, when I look at the version of the included files in each set (some of the .vxd, .dll files in each set.)
I have checked the versions of some of the files in the version 4.06 of the TBS Montego II AU8330 driver and they are, as an example, version 4.05.2000 while the version of the same file for version 4.05.2000 of the TBS Montego II AU8330 driver is 4.06.2150.
(Version 4.06 of the TBS Montego II AU8330 driver shows a file Au30mix.drv is version 4.05.2000 and Au30mix.vxd is version 4.05.2000
but Version 4.05.2000 of the TBS Montego II AU8330 driver shows a file Au30mix.drv is version 4.05.2000 and Au30mix.vxd is version 4.06.2015)
Question 2.
Since this discrepancy that an earlier version driver seems to have later version files and a later version driver has earlier versions of the same file seems peculiar to me. Is this of any concern? I would think the programmers should know what they are doing.
Bob
Hi Bob
Hmmm. I'm afraid I made the assumption that the borrowed computer would have allowed you to burn all the drivers to a CD that could then have been inserted as, and when, the post-setup hardware detection routine asked for a source for the drivers.
Your computer is non-bootable and therefore without internet access right now, isn't it?
A workaround? Temporarily remove the hard drive onto which you downloaded the drivers, and connect it as a slave drive in your problem computer to guide the new hardware wizard to look instead of a CD. This would mean changing the jumper cap covering the "master" pin position on the imported drive to the "slave" position, and then reversing the pin settings when returning it to its own computer later.
IF, however, the borrowed computer is running Windows XP and if the drive is formatted as NTFS rather than FAT32, then this workaround wouldn't be possible because Windows 98 cannot access an NTFS drive.
You could always do the reverse, and temporarily remove YOUR drive to transplant into the borrowed PC and download the files to one of the partitions. That way, even if the host PC is running XP on an NTFS drive, it will see and could access the Windows 98 FAT32 partitions.
I can't suggest any other sensible alternatives, I'm afraid. It's a pity I don't live in the US, or I could have burned them onto a CD for you and posted it to you.
I agree, the versions of the driver files does seem a little odd. I can only assume that the programmers deliberately mixed and matched the file versions for full stability. As long as all the files are left together in the same folder groups as they came, then I'm pretty sure they will all be matched up to work in concert as intended.
In reality, there probably won't be any discernible differences in functionality or quality between the two driver packages. It WOULD be a cause for concern if the package contained mix-and-match versions of WINDOWS System Files that clashed. This isn't an issue with the downloaded drivers, but just remember the rule NOT to allow overwriting of a newer windows file with an older one, if you are prompted during driver installation, or you could end up with that msvcrt.dll problem again.
Bill
Hmmm. I'm afraid I made the assumption that the borrowed computer would have allowed you to burn all the drivers to a CD that could then have been inserted as, and when, the post-setup hardware detection routine asked for a source for the drivers.
Your computer is non-bootable and therefore without internet access right now, isn't it?
A workaround? Temporarily remove the hard drive onto which you downloaded the drivers, and connect it as a slave drive in your problem computer to guide the new hardware wizard to look instead of a CD. This would mean changing the jumper cap covering the "master" pin position on the imported drive to the "slave" position, and then reversing the pin settings when returning it to its own computer later.
IF, however, the borrowed computer is running Windows XP and if the drive is formatted as NTFS rather than FAT32, then this workaround wouldn't be possible because Windows 98 cannot access an NTFS drive.
You could always do the reverse, and temporarily remove YOUR drive to transplant into the borrowed PC and download the files to one of the partitions. That way, even if the host PC is running XP on an NTFS drive, it will see and could access the Windows 98 FAT32 partitions.
I can't suggest any other sensible alternatives, I'm afraid. It's a pity I don't live in the US, or I could have burned them onto a CD for you and posted it to you.
I agree, the versions of the driver files does seem a little odd. I can only assume that the programmers deliberately mixed and matched the file versions for full stability. As long as all the files are left together in the same folder groups as they came, then I'm pretty sure they will all be matched up to work in concert as intended.
In reality, there probably won't be any discernible differences in functionality or quality between the two driver packages. It WOULD be a cause for concern if the package contained mix-and-match versions of WINDOWS System Files that clashed. This isn't an issue with the downloaded drivers, but just remember the rule NOT to allow overwriting of a newer windows file with an older one, if you are prompted during driver installation, or you could end up with that msvcrt.dll problem again.
Bill
ASKER
Hello Bill,
Let me address a concern of mine that pertains currently to at least 2 lines of advice that you gave me. My concern is that I would prefer not to have to manipulate hardware, insert cards, and similar chicken sentiments because, as you have learned, if anything can go wrong for me (remember my problems with installing Trend Micro antiviral software), it will. Not that things can’t be solved to remedy problems, but I’d rather not tempt fate. I’m not refusing to follow your recommendations, but if we can work around a process, I would prefer to. It seems to me that there are some alternative actions that might be simpler and also successful. Please criticize my alternatives to see if they are feasible.
First, regarding your last advice to connect the hard drive on my borrowed computer (to which I’ve downloaded the drivers and other necessary files) as a slave to my home computer hard drive:
1) Instead of bodily removing the necessary drivers, etc. by moving the hard drive itself, could I not, instead, just download the pieces of the drivers, floppy by floppy if necessary, until all the material resided on my home computer hard drive (assuming I have no pieces larger than 1.4 MB.) The borrowed computer has a Zip drive (I didn’t mention it before because I had thought it was a 250 MB Zip drive and I kept trying to shove 250 MB Zip disks into it but they were ejected so I believed it was malfunctional.) It finally dawned on me to check it in the System Properties box and found out that it was an Iomega Zip 100 drive. So by using 100 MB Zip disks it was able to function. Since I have a 250 MB Zip drive on my home computer, it should be able to read these 100 MB Zip disks. That size may be a bit skimpy but I believe would be reasonably feasible for this kind of job.
Question 1.
My question here would be what kind of problems might I have in installing the Zip drive back on my home computer while installing the operating system so that it would then be able to read the Zip disks for the necessary drivers when they would be needed?
Second, regarding the advice given about removing the NIC Card from my home computer before reinstalling Windows 98 and then reinserting that card while powered off after Windows has been reinstalled. I’m not disputing your advice but I believe you’ve made a card removal recommendation before and I talked you into allowing me to leave a card in place and it worked out with no apparent problem:
Question 2.
There seem to me to be 4 alternate possibilities:
a) Leave the NIC Card in place and proceed to reinstall Windows 98 and, as far as I know as it booted up, it would encounter the “new” card and would at that time ask for the drivers which could be supplied or
b) If, by not removing the NIC Card, some problem then arose with that NIC Card installation, because it would not properly install, since I had not removed it prior to the installation of Windows 98, then I presume, its presence might be detectable in the Device Manager (as Netgear FA311 PCI Adapter) where it could be highlighted and the Remove button clicked on to functionally remove that card. Then on rebooting I would expect the operating system to recognize the card as new and ask for the drivers or
c) If that was unsuccessful, I could remove that card when powered down (in the presence of the already installed operating system), reboot, power down again, reinsert the NIC Card, reboot again, and proceed the NIC Card installation process or
d) If none of that is successful I guess I could remove the card as you suggest prior to reinstalling the Windows 98 again.
Question 2.
If I am properly describing these options, how feasible are any of these scenarios? I know the last one is feasible since it is the one you originally suggested.
Bob
Let me address a concern of mine that pertains currently to at least 2 lines of advice that you gave me. My concern is that I would prefer not to have to manipulate hardware, insert cards, and similar chicken sentiments because, as you have learned, if anything can go wrong for me (remember my problems with installing Trend Micro antiviral software), it will. Not that things can’t be solved to remedy problems, but I’d rather not tempt fate. I’m not refusing to follow your recommendations, but if we can work around a process, I would prefer to. It seems to me that there are some alternative actions that might be simpler and also successful. Please criticize my alternatives to see if they are feasible.
First, regarding your last advice to connect the hard drive on my borrowed computer (to which I’ve downloaded the drivers and other necessary files) as a slave to my home computer hard drive:
1) Instead of bodily removing the necessary drivers, etc. by moving the hard drive itself, could I not, instead, just download the pieces of the drivers, floppy by floppy if necessary, until all the material resided on my home computer hard drive (assuming I have no pieces larger than 1.4 MB.) The borrowed computer has a Zip drive (I didn’t mention it before because I had thought it was a 250 MB Zip drive and I kept trying to shove 250 MB Zip disks into it but they were ejected so I believed it was malfunctional.) It finally dawned on me to check it in the System Properties box and found out that it was an Iomega Zip 100 drive. So by using 100 MB Zip disks it was able to function. Since I have a 250 MB Zip drive on my home computer, it should be able to read these 100 MB Zip disks. That size may be a bit skimpy but I believe would be reasonably feasible for this kind of job.
Question 1.
My question here would be what kind of problems might I have in installing the Zip drive back on my home computer while installing the operating system so that it would then be able to read the Zip disks for the necessary drivers when they would be needed?
Second, regarding the advice given about removing the NIC Card from my home computer before reinstalling Windows 98 and then reinserting that card while powered off after Windows has been reinstalled. I’m not disputing your advice but I believe you’ve made a card removal recommendation before and I talked you into allowing me to leave a card in place and it worked out with no apparent problem:
Question 2.
There seem to me to be 4 alternate possibilities:
a) Leave the NIC Card in place and proceed to reinstall Windows 98 and, as far as I know as it booted up, it would encounter the “new” card and would at that time ask for the drivers which could be supplied or
b) If, by not removing the NIC Card, some problem then arose with that NIC Card installation, because it would not properly install, since I had not removed it prior to the installation of Windows 98, then I presume, its presence might be detectable in the Device Manager (as Netgear FA311 PCI Adapter) where it could be highlighted and the Remove button clicked on to functionally remove that card. Then on rebooting I would expect the operating system to recognize the card as new and ask for the drivers or
c) If that was unsuccessful, I could remove that card when powered down (in the presence of the already installed operating system), reboot, power down again, reinsert the NIC Card, reboot again, and proceed the NIC Card installation process or
d) If none of that is successful I guess I could remove the card as you suggest prior to reinstalling the Windows 98 again.
Question 2.
If I am properly describing these options, how feasible are any of these scenarios? I know the last one is feasible since it is the one you originally suggested.
Bob
Hi Bob
I did recall that you had a zip drive, and it was something I did consider. I couldn't recall if it was a USB one or the type that connects to the parallel printer port though. Either way, I discounted this for the following reasons:
Parallel Port Connection
--------------------------
A simple matter of installing the Windows driver for the Iomega Zip Drive on the borrowed computer and downloading/copying the drivers for your computer's hardware to it.
You then need to:
(a) connect it before booting to a Win98 boot floppy to copy the contents of the zip drive onto a partition of your own computer before running setup
OR
(b) attach it before running setup from the CD so that when it finds new hardware at the latter stages of setup, you can direct it to look on the zip drive.
Two realistic and anticipated problems with scenario (a):
1. Although it is a very easy job to have a Win98 boot floppy load drivers for a parallel port zip drive, I have yet to find suitable drivers for a usb zip drive that work in DOS.
2. If booting to DOS to copy the contents of the zip drive to one of your partitions, remember that DOS only supports short file and folder names. Some of the driver files will have names that DOS will abbreviate/truncate during the copy process, or may fail to copy files that contain spaces.
Three potential problems with scenario (b):
1. By the time setup detects the connected zip drive, it will be in Windows-Mode and therefore will be looking for Windows drivers before it can access either a parallel port or usb zip drive. You can't have the drivers on the zip drive ready to install for the zip drive, because the system can't access it yet.
2. If, in the event of scenario 1. above, hardware detection finds the zip drive and looks for drivers, you COULD have them on floppy disk and tell the hardware detection process to look there for the drivers - BUT what happens if the new hardware wizard detects OTHER devices that need drivers BEFORE it detects the presence of the zip drive? It is highly likely to find your graphics device first, and you can't direct it to the zip drive that isn't yet enabled because its drivers haven't yet been installed.
That's the reasons I discounted the use of a zip drive. I have, in the past, used a parallel port zip drive (with only 2 x 100 MB disks) to copy the contents of a Windows 98se CD's "win98" folder to a partition after booting to a Win98se boot floppy and loading DOS Drivers for the zip drive. It was laborious and very slow, but fortunately the *.CAB and other file names in the Win98 folder of a Win98se aren't mangled by DOS during the copy process.
There are programs that allow you to use and retain long filenames from a DOS Environment, but their interface is complicated and it would have been another unnecessary complication to confuse the issue.
There are "Live" CD's of various Linux Operating Systems that boot into their own environment and allow accss to all your drives, and would probably be able to identify and access a parallel or usb zip drive, but they are massive downloads and you need a CD-Burner to create such bootable CD's.
Assuming your zip drive was a parallel port connection, I had considered packaging ALL of the driver files and folders into one large zip file on your zip drive, and then unzipping that file in one go to one of your partitions after booting to DOS Mode (with parallel port zip drive support).
Most zip files created with the DOS-based PKZIP program can be unzipped with Winzip, but you can't always use PKUNZIP to unzip all zip files created with Winzip. Both PKZIP and Winzip allow you to create a zip file on floppies and "span" the zipped package over as many floppy disks as it would need. That sounds as though I'm saying this would be possible, there is bad news. Although there is a "command line" addin for Winzip, it doesn't work in full DOS - only in a DOS Window while in the Full Windows mode. In addition to this, PKZIP and PKUNZIP do not recognise long file names because they are both DOS utilities.
What I DO have, is a "File Splitter" program that allows you to split large files into any number of chunks that can be any size you wish. The program I have creates a batch file in the same folder as the chunks it creates from the main file, and running this will join the chunks back into one file again.
That sounds great in principle, because you could make floppy-sized chunks, copy them all into one folder on your spare hard drive partition from DOS, and then run the batch file from DOS to join the chunks into what they originally were. The problem is that File-Splitting programs are designed to split ONE file into several pieces. Your driver packages comprise multiple files. OK, so you could zip up all the driver files into a zip file, and then split that, but you are still back at the problems discussed above on how to unzip the zip file from DOS and retain its integrity.
Onto the matter of removing the NIC card prior to reinstalling Windows. This was just a suggestion to try and avoid being hit with too many "found new hardware" dialogs that could cause you confusion. Network cards can be funny sometimes for a couple of reasons:
1. They can assume ownership of IRQ's that other devices like sound cards prefer to take ownership of if they are detected first
2. A lot of the driver packages you find for network cards are not a collection of separate files, but one single "setup.exe" file. When Windows detects new hardware and it asks you to search for a new driver, it is looking first and foremost for an *.INF file. If it can't find one, then it can't ID the device and install the necessary files. The "new hardware wizard" does not find and run .exe files to install the drivers.
In actual fact, the drivers for your Netgear FA-311 etehrnet card ARE a collection of separate files. If you had them stored on an accessible drive as the system found the card, you could direct the wizard to that drive or folder where it would find the file it needed, ie. "netfa311.inf". From there on, it would install normally.
So, prior removal of the network card is really just optional. If you prefer to leave it in, then that's fine.
What you DON'T really want to happen is the new hardware being detected during the early stages of the first reboots that Win98se does, but only have driver files that exists as single setup.exe files. That would mean having to cancel out of the detection and driver installation options and the device is left listed as an unidentified one in Device Manager. Sometimes this is inevitable because that's the only way drivers come for some hardware, although usually then running the setup.exe file when booted finally into Full Windows will sort this all out and configure the unknown device correctly. Again, it's hard to know with any certainty in advance how the detection process will proceed. The only way is to try it out and see what happens.
Hopefully this helps you to figure out your best options.
Bill
I did recall that you had a zip drive, and it was something I did consider. I couldn't recall if it was a USB one or the type that connects to the parallel printer port though. Either way, I discounted this for the following reasons:
Parallel Port Connection
--------------------------
A simple matter of installing the Windows driver for the Iomega Zip Drive on the borrowed computer and downloading/copying the drivers for your computer's hardware to it.
You then need to:
(a) connect it before booting to a Win98 boot floppy to copy the contents of the zip drive onto a partition of your own computer before running setup
OR
(b) attach it before running setup from the CD so that when it finds new hardware at the latter stages of setup, you can direct it to look on the zip drive.
Two realistic and anticipated problems with scenario (a):
1. Although it is a very easy job to have a Win98 boot floppy load drivers for a parallel port zip drive, I have yet to find suitable drivers for a usb zip drive that work in DOS.
2. If booting to DOS to copy the contents of the zip drive to one of your partitions, remember that DOS only supports short file and folder names. Some of the driver files will have names that DOS will abbreviate/truncate during the copy process, or may fail to copy files that contain spaces.
Three potential problems with scenario (b):
1. By the time setup detects the connected zip drive, it will be in Windows-Mode and therefore will be looking for Windows drivers before it can access either a parallel port or usb zip drive. You can't have the drivers on the zip drive ready to install for the zip drive, because the system can't access it yet.
2. If, in the event of scenario 1. above, hardware detection finds the zip drive and looks for drivers, you COULD have them on floppy disk and tell the hardware detection process to look there for the drivers - BUT what happens if the new hardware wizard detects OTHER devices that need drivers BEFORE it detects the presence of the zip drive? It is highly likely to find your graphics device first, and you can't direct it to the zip drive that isn't yet enabled because its drivers haven't yet been installed.
That's the reasons I discounted the use of a zip drive. I have, in the past, used a parallel port zip drive (with only 2 x 100 MB disks) to copy the contents of a Windows 98se CD's "win98" folder to a partition after booting to a Win98se boot floppy and loading DOS Drivers for the zip drive. It was laborious and very slow, but fortunately the *.CAB and other file names in the Win98 folder of a Win98se aren't mangled by DOS during the copy process.
There are programs that allow you to use and retain long filenames from a DOS Environment, but their interface is complicated and it would have been another unnecessary complication to confuse the issue.
There are "Live" CD's of various Linux Operating Systems that boot into their own environment and allow accss to all your drives, and would probably be able to identify and access a parallel or usb zip drive, but they are massive downloads and you need a CD-Burner to create such bootable CD's.
Assuming your zip drive was a parallel port connection, I had considered packaging ALL of the driver files and folders into one large zip file on your zip drive, and then unzipping that file in one go to one of your partitions after booting to DOS Mode (with parallel port zip drive support).
Most zip files created with the DOS-based PKZIP program can be unzipped with Winzip, but you can't always use PKUNZIP to unzip all zip files created with Winzip. Both PKZIP and Winzip allow you to create a zip file on floppies and "span" the zipped package over as many floppy disks as it would need. That sounds as though I'm saying this would be possible, there is bad news. Although there is a "command line" addin for Winzip, it doesn't work in full DOS - only in a DOS Window while in the Full Windows mode. In addition to this, PKZIP and PKUNZIP do not recognise long file names because they are both DOS utilities.
What I DO have, is a "File Splitter" program that allows you to split large files into any number of chunks that can be any size you wish. The program I have creates a batch file in the same folder as the chunks it creates from the main file, and running this will join the chunks back into one file again.
That sounds great in principle, because you could make floppy-sized chunks, copy them all into one folder on your spare hard drive partition from DOS, and then run the batch file from DOS to join the chunks into what they originally were. The problem is that File-Splitting programs are designed to split ONE file into several pieces. Your driver packages comprise multiple files. OK, so you could zip up all the driver files into a zip file, and then split that, but you are still back at the problems discussed above on how to unzip the zip file from DOS and retain its integrity.
Onto the matter of removing the NIC card prior to reinstalling Windows. This was just a suggestion to try and avoid being hit with too many "found new hardware" dialogs that could cause you confusion. Network cards can be funny sometimes for a couple of reasons:
1. They can assume ownership of IRQ's that other devices like sound cards prefer to take ownership of if they are detected first
2. A lot of the driver packages you find for network cards are not a collection of separate files, but one single "setup.exe" file. When Windows detects new hardware and it asks you to search for a new driver, it is looking first and foremost for an *.INF file. If it can't find one, then it can't ID the device and install the necessary files. The "new hardware wizard" does not find and run .exe files to install the drivers.
In actual fact, the drivers for your Netgear FA-311 etehrnet card ARE a collection of separate files. If you had them stored on an accessible drive as the system found the card, you could direct the wizard to that drive or folder where it would find the file it needed, ie. "netfa311.inf". From there on, it would install normally.
So, prior removal of the network card is really just optional. If you prefer to leave it in, then that's fine.
What you DON'T really want to happen is the new hardware being detected during the early stages of the first reboots that Win98se does, but only have driver files that exists as single setup.exe files. That would mean having to cancel out of the detection and driver installation options and the device is left listed as an unidentified one in Device Manager. Sometimes this is inevitable because that's the only way drivers come for some hardware, although usually then running the setup.exe file when booted finally into Full Windows will sort this all out and configure the unknown device correctly. Again, it's hard to know with any certainty in advance how the detection process will proceed. The only way is to try it out and see what happens.
Hopefully this helps you to figure out your best options.
Bill
ASKER
Hello Bill,
I'm currently editing my next response which should be ready in a day or 2.
Bob
I'm currently editing my next response which should be ready in a day or 2.
Bob
OK Bob, I'll watch for it.
ASKER
Bill,
I am trying to get a layout of the pages of this material and wanted to have a paragraph of explanatory material that was flush with the left side of the page and then place a question below that all of whose lines are 5 spaces inward from the left border to help in delineating the material for intelligibility but it seems that Experts Exchange formattting forces everything to the left border. Are there any rules of the Experts Exchange text placement which would allow this or am I stuck with EE formatting?
I am trying to get a layout of the pages of this material and wanted to have a paragraph of explanatory material that was flush with the left side of the page and then place a question below that all of whose lines are 5 spaces inward from the left border to help in delineating the material for intelligibility but it seems that Experts Exchange formattting forces everything to the left border. Are there any rules of the Experts Exchange text placement which would allow this or am I stuck with EE formatting?
ASKER
I am speaking about new material I am producing.
Nope, unfortunately you are stuck with E-E formatting. It unfortunately doesn't have a facility to format certain paragraphs differently, as some sites do, whereby you would add specific "tags" eg. for programming code like this (I have tried to create equal indents using the spacebar):
[code]
define blah, blah
define something else
start of function
if something is true
then do something
otherwise
do something else
end of function
[/code]
Discussion forums that have these tools in their arsenal of options would format the text between those "code" tags using fixed-space font, like courier new, so that it retained all the proper tabbed indents when displayed. E-E pages display comments in something like Arial font, where different letters/characters take up more or less space than others and knock everything out of vertical alignment. "TreePrint" listings are also affected badly because of the variable spaced font used.
Easiest way is to compose in Notepad and just use ==== or ***** or ~~~~~ or ##### to separate different paragraphs or blocks of text, then copy the lot and paste here.
If composing in Word for transmission to others by email, then you can use "Styles" or Bold/Underlined/larger text, or create a horizontal line by hitting the Enter key after typing a few ====='s, but again this is all lost when pasted in here.
Bill
[code]
define blah, blah
define something else
start of function
if something is true
then do something
otherwise
do something else
end of function
[/code]
Discussion forums that have these tools in their arsenal of options would format the text between those "code" tags using fixed-space font, like courier new, so that it retained all the proper tabbed indents when displayed. E-E pages display comments in something like Arial font, where different letters/characters take up more or less space than others and knock everything out of vertical alignment. "TreePrint" listings are also affected badly because of the variable spaced font used.
Easiest way is to compose in Notepad and just use ==== or ***** or ~~~~~ or ##### to separate different paragraphs or blocks of text, then copy the lot and paste here.
If composing in Word for transmission to others by email, then you can use "Styles" or Bold/Underlined/larger text, or create a horizontal line by hitting the Enter key after typing a few ====='s, but again this is all lost when pasted in here.
Bill
ASKER
Thanks for the info but I'm sorry because I think it would help the intelligibility. Still editing.
Bob
Bob
ASKER
Hello Bill,
Sorry for the delay but that editing took longer than I thought it would.
After seeing the length of this post and the number of questions, I hope you will continue the support you have offered since I believe this discussion is an important one for me. I recognize the demand this makes on you but your previous responses lead me to believe that this is acceptable. Excuse the repetition that I have included but I’ve attempted to be absolutely clear (for myself as well as you) in my meaning which leads to the redundancy Please correct any misstatements I make.
There are items that I did not understand from your last post that seems important so that I need clarification. I should have asked some of these questions before. I believe I mentioned before that what I had thought was a Windows 98SE installation CD states on its label: Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition Updates.
Question 1.
Which leads me to ask whether this is a complete Windows 98SE installation CD or might I need to, first, install Windows 98 from its installation CD and then install that Second Edition Update CD on top of the previously installed Windows 98 installation?
Question 2.
If the above two CD installations are required for a “complete” Windows 98SE installation, does that require more hard disk space because of file duplications that may be placed in different locations or does any duplication from the Second Edition Updates just overwrite the original Windows 98 files in the identical locations?
This next question might be misplaced here in this discussion but I thought I’d ask it anyway because it’s been bothering me for awhile:
Question 3.
Could you tell me why, back when my Windows 98SE operating system and its devices were actually installed and functional and I would check the various devices in the Device Manager and clicked on their Drivers tab, I would frequently get a message that stated “No drivers are required or have been loaded for this device” and that occurred even though they seemed to be functioning properly?
THE NEXT SET OF QUESTIONS ARE ABOUT SOME BASICS OF DOS USAGE:
Question 4.
Wouldn’t the names of any drivers being developed by programmers automatically avoid any conflicts in use with the DOS naming requirements because they are professionals?
Question 5.
If, somehow, some drivers were named with spaces, could they be renamed by me without spaces and still be recognized by the installation process?
Question 6.
If DOS should encounter driver names that don’t conform to the 8+3 restriction and renames them to conform to the DOS environment is the renamed driver always understood by the Windows operating system so that a functional installation of its device can be performed?
END OF DOS SECTION
First, I will mention that I found out that I have a parallel 250 MB Zip drive on my home computer. I went to the Dell Warranty Hardware chat support asking what type of Zip drive I had on my Dell Dimension XPS T500 computer and was informed that since the Zip drive was internally connected, it was parallel. The Iomega website stated, if I read it correctly, that Windows 98SE may have native drivers that can install the Zip drive from within the Windows 98SE installing environment.
I think your discussion of the Zip drive has convinced me that I should slave the hard drive of the borrowed computer to the hard drive on my home computer since the arrangements to allow the Zip drives to function properly seem just as complicated as the slave-master hard drive arrangement.
Question 7.
Is the following a correct procedure to set up those 2 hard drives?
1) The hard drive of the borrowed computer to which I have downloaded all the needed drivers and files that aren’t already on the home computer’s hard drive should be switched to the slave position connection.
2) The hard drive of my home computer which already has the master position connections should already be connected to the end connector of the ribbon cable on my home computer.
3) The hard drive of the borrowed computer should be connected to the middle connector of the ribbon cable of the home computer.
4) To replace the hard drive of the borrowed computer back into the borrowed computer, change its setting back to the master position connection and unplug it from the middle connection on the ribbon cable in the home computer and reconnect it to the end connection on the ribbon cable in the borrowed computer.
5) Nothing has to be changed from the home computer hard drive connections.
Question 8.
Is a device installation process requiring drivers needed for the addition of the slave hard drive to my home computer?
I now want to give you the choice to ignore the set of questions in Section AAA below about the parallel Zip drive if you so choose since, apparently, the Zip drive wouldn’t be needed if I set up the hard drives as described. I would appreciate your clarifying answers to those questions in Section AAA below about the use of the Zip drive, but I want to give you the choice, if you prefer, to avoid these questions. I didn’t completely understand your discussion about the Zip drive.
BEGINNING OF SECTION AAA:
It sounded as if you were saying that I could access the Zip drive in a Windows Boot Startup environment but, when I booted up using the Windows Startup floppy, I was not able to find any assigned drive letter for my Zip drive in that environment but I did find the other hard drive partitions and also the H: drive from which I could read the Windows 98SE installation CD.
Question 9.
Since you said “Although it is a very easy job to have a Win98 boot floppy load drivers for a parallel port Zip drive….”, why should there have been difficulty finding the Zip drive or did I misunderstand?
Question 10.
Wasn’t the issue with the Zip drive not whether the drivers for the Zip drive would work in DOS but only whether the drivers will work in the installation environment for Windows 98SE. What have I misunderstood?
I should mention that what the Iomega website offers is not a set of drivers for the Windows 98 Zip drive but, apparently, an Iomegaware “.exe”
(iodrv-w98-x86-403.exe) installation file that can install their drives for all the models of their Zip drives if run from the operating system.
Question 11.
Since I couldn’t find any drivers for the Zip drive in any form except that installation Iomegaware file mentioned above, isn’t this the same kind of problem with a device installation as that occurring with the single setup.exe files mentioned below – in other words it won’t be able to be installed by the installation process for Windows 98SE unless the native drivers, if they exist, are available?
You had stated:
“Parallel Port Connection
--------------------------
A simple matter of installing the Windows driver for the Iomega Zip Drive on the borrowed computer and downloading/copying the drivers for your computer's hardware to it.
You then need to:
(a) connect it before booting to a Win98 boot floppy to copy the contents of the zip drive onto a partition of your own computer before running setup
OR
(b) attach it before running setup from the CD so that when it finds new hardware at the latter stages of setup, you can direct it to look on the zip drive.”
You then followed that material with critiques about those two possibilities but I didn’t understand the critiques too well nor the above statement either.
Question 12.
This confuses me because my Zip drive is already connected in its computer but it sounds as if you are saying that the Zip drive needs to be disconnected first and then…?
Please clarify the above.
END OF SECTION AAA
Second, I do already have the updated graphics drivers for my NVIDIA RIVA TNT card on the home computer’s hard drive. I had previously had to reinstall the NVIDIA card because I had Adapter display problems resulting in a fixed 800 X 600 screen resolution which was able to be corrected after the card reinstallation when it found whatever drivers it found on its own.
That previous graphics card installation seemed peculiar to me because I had gone to some trouble to obtain the latest drivers for that card and placed them in their own folder in C:\Windows\NVIDIA (and I know that I have to transfer this to one of my other drives before reinstalling the operating system so that it isn’t wiped out in the reformatting of the C: drive) but in the reinstallation process for the card I was not asked for the location where I had placed the drivers but, instead, the process just seemed to find the needed drivers on its own so I am not sure whether it found:
1) the needed drivers wherever they had been present before the reinstallation of that card or
2) whether it found the drivers in the C:\Windows\NVIDIA folder on its own.
Question 13.
Can you tell me whether that installation process for the graphics card found the updated drivers that I had placed in the C:\Windows\NVIDIA folder on its own or found a previous set of drivers on its own?
BEGINNING OF SECTION BBB.
A listing of the possible (conceivable, at least to me) installation processes for devices and peripherals:
PROCESS 1: The installation of Windows 98SE using the Windows 98SE installation CD (or the copied Win98 folder) installs new devices during the process of the operating system installation as it encounters each new device.
Question 14.
Can this Windows installation process install “all” devices except the devices like an external hard drive Palm handheld, or printer which come with their own installation disks and those devices that install by a single step setup.exe file?
Question 15.
Should any or all the peripherals be disconnected during the Windows installation process so that they won’t be detected and attempted to be installed at that time but wait until after the OS installation is complete to install them?
PROCESS 2: After the operating system has been installed, whenever the computer is rebooted, it will proceed to install any new devices as it encounters them.
Question 16.
Am I not correct that if Windows 98SE has been successfully installed, each time it is rebooted, it will detect the cards that have not yet been installed and will repeat that new device installation process?
PROCESS 3: I didn’t know about this option until you mentioned it that running setup.exe (the installation process for Windows 98SE) again on top of an already installed operating system would proceed to install any new devices that had not already been installed.
Question 17.
Wouldn’t this process of running the Windows installation again on top of itself be able to install any devices that had been missed except for those that exist only as a single setup.exe files?
PROCESS 4: If I had not installed any devices except the graphics card so that the system operation can be visualized during and following the installation of Windows 98SE, any uninstalled devices would show up in the Device Manager as questioned (! Or X?) devices and can installed by clicking on the ‘Update drivers…’ button.
Question 18.
What exceptions to the above statement might there be? Which devices, if any, that weren’t installed (other than setup.exe installations) would not show up in the Device Manager?
PROCESS 5: It is conceivable that there might be a stand alone program, independent of the Installation CD for Windows 98SE, possibly third party, that can handle all the device installation processes from scratch.
Question 19.
Is there any software available that could detect any passed over uninstalled cards and install their drivers independently after the operating system had been installed? I’m not saying that this software would supply the needed drivers but that would also be helpful.
PROCESS 6: Devices with a single setup.exe file to handle the installation processes should be double clicked to install the particular device
Question 20
Is it possible to find somewhere an actual set of drivers for some of the devices that seem to have only a single setup.exe file for installation?
END OF SECTION BBB
Question 21.
Is any one of these processes more effective or useful in installing devices than any other:
PROCESS 1. Installation of detected devices during the process of installing the operating system,
PROCESS 2. Rebooting into the already installed operating system and then install any devices encountered by the operating system
PROCESS 3. Running setup.exe (the installation process for Windows 98SE) on top of the already installed operating system,
PROCESS 5. A third party device installation program (if it existed) could install devices not previously installed
PROCESS 6. A single setup.exe file could be double clicked in the operating system environment to install its device?
In a paragraph that pertained to the NIC card installation but seems to have general applicability you said:
“What you DON'T really want to happen is the new hardware being detected during the early stages of the first reboots that Win98se does, but only have driver files that exists as single setup.exe files. That would mean having to cancel out of the detection and driver installation options and the device is left listed as an unidentified one in Device Manager. Sometimes this is inevitable because that's the only way drivers come for some hardware, although usually then running the setup.exe file when booted finally into Full Windows will sort this all out and configure the unknown device correctly. Again, it's hard to know with any certainty in advance how the detection process will proceed. The only way is to try it out and see what happens.”
Question 22.
What are “the detecting and driver installation options” referred to in the above paragraph?
Question 23.
Can you explain what you meant by “the early stages of the first reboots.” I thought there was only one booting up process as the setup.exe file of the Windows 98SE installation proceeded during which the operating system was installed and devices were detected and installed. Please clarify and also state how many stages there are and how many reboots there might be?
I hope the logic of the next question is clear.
Question 24
In the process of Windows installation could I reject any individual device installation
1) With no harm done that couldn’t be remedied by one of the measures in Section BBB or
2) Will rejection of any particular device from the first one detected to the last one:
a) Halt the installation of Windows 98SE? or
b) Halt the entire detection and device installation process while the Windows 98SE installation process continued until its completion?
Question 25.
Since I currently have my home computer available before I format that C: drive, might I be able to find the drivers for all my devices on that computer that I could save for possible use, rescue or otherwise?
Question 26.
What other reasons than that a device installation file is only available as a setup.exe file, are there for a device to be listed in the Device Manager as (! Or X).
Question 27.
What difference does it make that the driver installation package is written only in the setup.exe file form which, far as I know, can be simply installed by double clicking on the setup.exe file if properly written and is, apparently, the way the programmer intended for it to be installed?
Sorry for the delay but that editing took longer than I thought it would.
After seeing the length of this post and the number of questions, I hope you will continue the support you have offered since I believe this discussion is an important one for me. I recognize the demand this makes on you but your previous responses lead me to believe that this is acceptable. Excuse the repetition that I have included but I’ve attempted to be absolutely clear (for myself as well as you) in my meaning which leads to the redundancy Please correct any misstatements I make.
There are items that I did not understand from your last post that seems important so that I need clarification. I should have asked some of these questions before. I believe I mentioned before that what I had thought was a Windows 98SE installation CD states on its label: Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition Updates.
Question 1.
Which leads me to ask whether this is a complete Windows 98SE installation CD or might I need to, first, install Windows 98 from its installation CD and then install that Second Edition Update CD on top of the previously installed Windows 98 installation?
Question 2.
If the above two CD installations are required for a “complete” Windows 98SE installation, does that require more hard disk space because of file duplications that may be placed in different locations or does any duplication from the Second Edition Updates just overwrite the original Windows 98 files in the identical locations?
This next question might be misplaced here in this discussion but I thought I’d ask it anyway because it’s been bothering me for awhile:
Question 3.
Could you tell me why, back when my Windows 98SE operating system and its devices were actually installed and functional and I would check the various devices in the Device Manager and clicked on their Drivers tab, I would frequently get a message that stated “No drivers are required or have been loaded for this device” and that occurred even though they seemed to be functioning properly?
THE NEXT SET OF QUESTIONS ARE ABOUT SOME BASICS OF DOS USAGE:
Question 4.
Wouldn’t the names of any drivers being developed by programmers automatically avoid any conflicts in use with the DOS naming requirements because they are professionals?
Question 5.
If, somehow, some drivers were named with spaces, could they be renamed by me without spaces and still be recognized by the installation process?
Question 6.
If DOS should encounter driver names that don’t conform to the 8+3 restriction and renames them to conform to the DOS environment is the renamed driver always understood by the Windows operating system so that a functional installation of its device can be performed?
END OF DOS SECTION
First, I will mention that I found out that I have a parallel 250 MB Zip drive on my home computer. I went to the Dell Warranty Hardware chat support asking what type of Zip drive I had on my Dell Dimension XPS T500 computer and was informed that since the Zip drive was internally connected, it was parallel. The Iomega website stated, if I read it correctly, that Windows 98SE may have native drivers that can install the Zip drive from within the Windows 98SE installing environment.
I think your discussion of the Zip drive has convinced me that I should slave the hard drive of the borrowed computer to the hard drive on my home computer since the arrangements to allow the Zip drives to function properly seem just as complicated as the slave-master hard drive arrangement.
Question 7.
Is the following a correct procedure to set up those 2 hard drives?
1) The hard drive of the borrowed computer to which I have downloaded all the needed drivers and files that aren’t already on the home computer’s hard drive should be switched to the slave position connection.
2) The hard drive of my home computer which already has the master position connections should already be connected to the end connector of the ribbon cable on my home computer.
3) The hard drive of the borrowed computer should be connected to the middle connector of the ribbon cable of the home computer.
4) To replace the hard drive of the borrowed computer back into the borrowed computer, change its setting back to the master position connection and unplug it from the middle connection on the ribbon cable in the home computer and reconnect it to the end connection on the ribbon cable in the borrowed computer.
5) Nothing has to be changed from the home computer hard drive connections.
Question 8.
Is a device installation process requiring drivers needed for the addition of the slave hard drive to my home computer?
I now want to give you the choice to ignore the set of questions in Section AAA below about the parallel Zip drive if you so choose since, apparently, the Zip drive wouldn’t be needed if I set up the hard drives as described. I would appreciate your clarifying answers to those questions in Section AAA below about the use of the Zip drive, but I want to give you the choice, if you prefer, to avoid these questions. I didn’t completely understand your discussion about the Zip drive.
BEGINNING OF SECTION AAA:
It sounded as if you were saying that I could access the Zip drive in a Windows Boot Startup environment but, when I booted up using the Windows Startup floppy, I was not able to find any assigned drive letter for my Zip drive in that environment but I did find the other hard drive partitions and also the H: drive from which I could read the Windows 98SE installation CD.
Question 9.
Since you said “Although it is a very easy job to have a Win98 boot floppy load drivers for a parallel port Zip drive….”, why should there have been difficulty finding the Zip drive or did I misunderstand?
Question 10.
Wasn’t the issue with the Zip drive not whether the drivers for the Zip drive would work in DOS but only whether the drivers will work in the installation environment for Windows 98SE. What have I misunderstood?
I should mention that what the Iomega website offers is not a set of drivers for the Windows 98 Zip drive but, apparently, an Iomegaware “.exe”
(iodrv-w98-x86-403.exe) installation file that can install their drives for all the models of their Zip drives if run from the operating system.
Question 11.
Since I couldn’t find any drivers for the Zip drive in any form except that installation Iomegaware file mentioned above, isn’t this the same kind of problem with a device installation as that occurring with the single setup.exe files mentioned below – in other words it won’t be able to be installed by the installation process for Windows 98SE unless the native drivers, if they exist, are available?
You had stated:
“Parallel Port Connection
--------------------------
A simple matter of installing the Windows driver for the Iomega Zip Drive on the borrowed computer and downloading/copying the drivers for your computer's hardware to it.
You then need to:
(a) connect it before booting to a Win98 boot floppy to copy the contents of the zip drive onto a partition of your own computer before running setup
OR
(b) attach it before running setup from the CD so that when it finds new hardware at the latter stages of setup, you can direct it to look on the zip drive.”
You then followed that material with critiques about those two possibilities but I didn’t understand the critiques too well nor the above statement either.
Question 12.
This confuses me because my Zip drive is already connected in its computer but it sounds as if you are saying that the Zip drive needs to be disconnected first and then…?
Please clarify the above.
END OF SECTION AAA
Second, I do already have the updated graphics drivers for my NVIDIA RIVA TNT card on the home computer’s hard drive. I had previously had to reinstall the NVIDIA card because I had Adapter display problems resulting in a fixed 800 X 600 screen resolution which was able to be corrected after the card reinstallation when it found whatever drivers it found on its own.
That previous graphics card installation seemed peculiar to me because I had gone to some trouble to obtain the latest drivers for that card and placed them in their own folder in C:\Windows\NVIDIA (and I know that I have to transfer this to one of my other drives before reinstalling the operating system so that it isn’t wiped out in the reformatting of the C: drive) but in the reinstallation process for the card I was not asked for the location where I had placed the drivers but, instead, the process just seemed to find the needed drivers on its own so I am not sure whether it found:
1) the needed drivers wherever they had been present before the reinstallation of that card or
2) whether it found the drivers in the C:\Windows\NVIDIA folder on its own.
Question 13.
Can you tell me whether that installation process for the graphics card found the updated drivers that I had placed in the C:\Windows\NVIDIA folder on its own or found a previous set of drivers on its own?
BEGINNING OF SECTION BBB.
A listing of the possible (conceivable, at least to me) installation processes for devices and peripherals:
PROCESS 1: The installation of Windows 98SE using the Windows 98SE installation CD (or the copied Win98 folder) installs new devices during the process of the operating system installation as it encounters each new device.
Question 14.
Can this Windows installation process install “all” devices except the devices like an external hard drive Palm handheld, or printer which come with their own installation disks and those devices that install by a single step setup.exe file?
Question 15.
Should any or all the peripherals be disconnected during the Windows installation process so that they won’t be detected and attempted to be installed at that time but wait until after the OS installation is complete to install them?
PROCESS 2: After the operating system has been installed, whenever the computer is rebooted, it will proceed to install any new devices as it encounters them.
Question 16.
Am I not correct that if Windows 98SE has been successfully installed, each time it is rebooted, it will detect the cards that have not yet been installed and will repeat that new device installation process?
PROCESS 3: I didn’t know about this option until you mentioned it that running setup.exe (the installation process for Windows 98SE) again on top of an already installed operating system would proceed to install any new devices that had not already been installed.
Question 17.
Wouldn’t this process of running the Windows installation again on top of itself be able to install any devices that had been missed except for those that exist only as a single setup.exe files?
PROCESS 4: If I had not installed any devices except the graphics card so that the system operation can be visualized during and following the installation of Windows 98SE, any uninstalled devices would show up in the Device Manager as questioned (! Or X?) devices and can installed by clicking on the ‘Update drivers…’ button.
Question 18.
What exceptions to the above statement might there be? Which devices, if any, that weren’t installed (other than setup.exe installations) would not show up in the Device Manager?
PROCESS 5: It is conceivable that there might be a stand alone program, independent of the Installation CD for Windows 98SE, possibly third party, that can handle all the device installation processes from scratch.
Question 19.
Is there any software available that could detect any passed over uninstalled cards and install their drivers independently after the operating system had been installed? I’m not saying that this software would supply the needed drivers but that would also be helpful.
PROCESS 6: Devices with a single setup.exe file to handle the installation processes should be double clicked to install the particular device
Question 20
Is it possible to find somewhere an actual set of drivers for some of the devices that seem to have only a single setup.exe file for installation?
END OF SECTION BBB
Question 21.
Is any one of these processes more effective or useful in installing devices than any other:
PROCESS 1. Installation of detected devices during the process of installing the operating system,
PROCESS 2. Rebooting into the already installed operating system and then install any devices encountered by the operating system
PROCESS 3. Running setup.exe (the installation process for Windows 98SE) on top of the already installed operating system,
PROCESS 5. A third party device installation program (if it existed) could install devices not previously installed
PROCESS 6. A single setup.exe file could be double clicked in the operating system environment to install its device?
In a paragraph that pertained to the NIC card installation but seems to have general applicability you said:
“What you DON'T really want to happen is the new hardware being detected during the early stages of the first reboots that Win98se does, but only have driver files that exists as single setup.exe files. That would mean having to cancel out of the detection and driver installation options and the device is left listed as an unidentified one in Device Manager. Sometimes this is inevitable because that's the only way drivers come for some hardware, although usually then running the setup.exe file when booted finally into Full Windows will sort this all out and configure the unknown device correctly. Again, it's hard to know with any certainty in advance how the detection process will proceed. The only way is to try it out and see what happens.”
Question 22.
What are “the detecting and driver installation options” referred to in the above paragraph?
Question 23.
Can you explain what you meant by “the early stages of the first reboots.” I thought there was only one booting up process as the setup.exe file of the Windows 98SE installation proceeded during which the operating system was installed and devices were detected and installed. Please clarify and also state how many stages there are and how many reboots there might be?
I hope the logic of the next question is clear.
Question 24
In the process of Windows installation could I reject any individual device installation
1) With no harm done that couldn’t be remedied by one of the measures in Section BBB or
2) Will rejection of any particular device from the first one detected to the last one:
a) Halt the installation of Windows 98SE? or
b) Halt the entire detection and device installation process while the Windows 98SE installation process continued until its completion?
Question 25.
Since I currently have my home computer available before I format that C: drive, might I be able to find the drivers for all my devices on that computer that I could save for possible use, rescue or otherwise?
Question 26.
What other reasons than that a device installation file is only available as a setup.exe file, are there for a device to be listed in the Device Manager as (! Or X).
Question 27.
What difference does it make that the driver installation package is written only in the setup.exe file form which, far as I know, can be simply installed by double clicking on the setup.exe file if properly written and is, apparently, the way the programmer intended for it to be installed?
Hi Bob.
Bear with me a couple of days while I respond to your questions. There is quite a lot to be addressed.
Regards
Bill
Bear with me a couple of days while I respond to your questions. There is quite a lot to be addressed.
Regards
Bill
ASKER
Hello Bill,
Thank you and I hope you agree that these, at least some of them, are important questions.
Bob
Thank you and I hope you agree that these, at least some of them, are important questions.
Bob
ASKER
Bill, I don't know if a previous paragraph that you had sent me before (that I'll quote below) directly answers my Question 1. above about whether I need to install the Windows 98 installation CD prior to installing the Window 98 Second Edition Update CD on top of it in order to have a "complete" Windows 98SE installation but here it is:
” I haven't done a complete side-by-side comparison yet, but it certainly looks as though your Windows 98 se installation CD is absolutely standard and has ALL the resources present and available to perform a standard installation. In other words, although some of the setup files might well be "branded" so that they reflect the fact that it is a Dell OEM CD, it isn't one of those "Recovery CD's" that can only be installed by booting to the CD and doing a "repair install" or one that forces you to only install in a certain way.”
In other words it looks like you were on the verge of answering that question but didn't quite do it so my Second Edition Update CD may contain more than “just updates” and actually is, itself, a complete operating system that is updated. Were you able to determine that?
Bob
” I haven't done a complete side-by-side comparison yet, but it certainly looks as though your Windows 98 se installation CD is absolutely standard and has ALL the resources present and available to perform a standard installation. In other words, although some of the setup files might well be "branded" so that they reflect the fact that it is a Dell OEM CD, it isn't one of those "Recovery CD's" that can only be installed by booting to the CD and doing a "repair install" or one that forces you to only install in a certain way.”
In other words it looks like you were on the verge of answering that question but didn't quite do it so my Second Edition Update CD may contain more than “just updates” and actually is, itself, a complete operating system that is updated. Were you able to determine that?
Bob
Hi Bob
Your questions answered, including that covered in your last question above.
Q1. Do you have a FULL Win98se CD or an Upgrade Version?
You previously provided a "treeprint" listing of your Win98se CD, and I compared it with on made from my own full Win98se CD. When I say "full", what I mean is that MY CD is an OEM version (ie. supplied with a computer), but it is not one of those "recovery" CD's as furnished with many older Compaq, Dell, etc. PC's that came preinstalled with Win98se and will only "repair" an installation or force a complete hard drive format and reinstall. It is non-machine-specific, and so can be installed on ANY computer. I have installed full Win98se installations from it on probably about 10 or more different computers over the years, and have done fresh installations about 4 or 5 times over on each of them from that CD.
The direct comparison between the listing from YOUR CD and MINE are as close to an exact match as is needed. The only differences are completely insignificant to your usage as follows:
Mine has an "admin" folder under CD:\tools, and this contains a single batch file that is ONLY used by OEM System Builders to create custom installations that can be used to configure multiple networked computers. Mine also contains an additional folder namely CD:\tools\nettools\fac. This contains files that are ONLY used by the above batch file.
The only other differences are that my CD contains 3 additional files in the "win98" folder:
- OEMSETUP.EXE (used by equipment builders to do customised and "branded" installations)
- OEMSETUP.BIN (required by oemsetup.exe), and
- ** FORMAT.COM **
The absence of the FORMAT program file on YOUR CD is NOT important and only means that you wouldn't be able to boot to DOS from the CD and format the hard drive using to FORMAT command from the CD. This option means absolutely nothing if you boot to a Win98se boot floppy, from which the format command is freely available.
So, in short, your CD is fully capable of installing a COMPLETE version of Win98se on a blank hard drive without the need to have first installed a lesser operating system ie. Win98 or Win95. Had that been the case, the title on the CD would have been "Windows 98 Second Edition Upgrade Edition". It is puzzling that the title shown on the CD is "Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition Updates". I can only assume that it means "WITH updates". As long as you are sure that is the same CD you created the treeprint listing from, then you have nothing to worry about, your CD is as good as any full retail version.
==========================
Q2. Not applicable, given the above explanation, but to answer it anyway. An UpGRADE version (rather than "upDATE" as yours states) would overwrite quite a number of files installed by the lesser qualifying operating system, but would back up the files first so that the upgrade could later be uninstalled to revert to the previously installed lesser version. That would take up some extra hard drive space, but this isn't applicable to you.
==========================
Q3. Devices that show as "No drivers are required or have been loaded for this device".
This status shown in Device manager will be seen for devices such as the Monitor, Hard Drives, Floppy Drives, and CD Drives because they don't require independent "drivers". They do need the support of files that are always installed, so I suppose you could liken them to drivers in a way, but Windows does not treat them as drivers as you would need for something like a modem, sound card, or graphics card. IF you DID see that message in the properties shown for a device that DID require drivers, then the device status would usually be accompanied by a status message that it wasn't working properly, so I can only assume that you were looking at those devices that don't need drivers.
==========================
Q4 to Q6 (DOS naming convention and driver file names).
Any device that has the capability of working in a DOS environment will have a DOS-Specific driver with a conforming DOS name. For example, to access a CD-Rom Drive from DOS, a DOS-compatible CD-Rom Driver has to be loaded into memory eg. from a Win98se boot floppy when you choose to boot "With CD-Rom Support". Examples of DOS CD-Rom drivers are OAKCDROM.SYS (8+3) or BTCDROM.SYS (7+3).
Standard Floppy Drives and standard PS/2 Keyboards are supported by DOS drivers on a Win98se boot floppy, so they will be immediately accessible after booting to such a floppy, or even just booting into DOS Mode on a computer that already has Win98se installed on it.
DOS-compliant names are not something you will have to worry about when installing Windows 98se, because by the time the "Found New Hardware Wizard" detects new devices and prompts for you to guide it to a folder or CD for the files, the installation is now able to use long filenames properly ie. you will be in Windows mode.
Q4. Generally software developers try to keep filenames short, but that's usually because short names are easier to use when compiling the files that do the work of installing rather than to be DOS-compliant.
Q5. I wouldn't start renaming any driver files, because their setup routine will usually refer to them by the originally given file name.
==========================
ZIP Drive Question (see also Q9 to Q12.)
When I was referring to a "parallel port" zip drive, I was really referring to an external Iomega Zip Drive that connects with a printer-type cable to the Printer Port, which is referred to as a "parallel port". An INTERNAL Zip Drive connects with a flat ribbon cable, and that type of data transfer is also commonly referred to a "parallel" data transfer (as opposed to "serial").
It could very well be the case that the Win98se CD contains basic driver files that will allow access to the Zip drive, but I couldn't guarantee that it would work. On your CD and mine, you will find a folder CD:\drivers\storage\iomega
I still believe that your best option is the temporary slaving method which you have described in your Question 7. The steps you have detailed are all correct for that particular temporary "hosting" of the borrowed hard drive into your own computer. You have grasped the principles completely in this respect, but it depends what you propose doing thereafter.
==========================
Q7. Connecting a hard drive in another computer as Slave.
Temporarily slaving the BORROWED PC's hard drive (containing your downloaded drivers) into YOUR computer certainly serves to supply a good "source" for the drivers when it comes to installing them, but the setup details saved to your registry will thereafter reflect the drive temporarily slaved into your computer as having been the "source" from which the drivers were installed. After you remove the drive, that source is gone and may cause the system to hunt for it if you to reinstall any particular driver.
I suppose the idea in that method would be to then copy the contents from the borrowed slave drive onto one of your own hard drive's partitions AFTER Windows was installed successfully to your own drive, and this would serve as permanent storage for subsequent reinstallations of those drivers from that partition. No great problem in that case then, because you would just redirect it to then look to your own hard drive partition where you copied the files after the install was complete, and before you disconnected the borrowed hard drive.
There is one potential hazard with installing Windows to your own hard drive while you had someone else's hard drive temporarily attached, and this would be that you would have to be absolutely sure that the drives were correctly jumpered and connected as master and slave, or you could end up installing Win98se onto the borrowed computer's drive.
Your alternative option (still referring to temporary slaving of drives) would be to connect YOUR hard drive as SLAVE in the BORROWED computer, while still leaving that computer's own drive as the master in its own computer. That way, you have full access to Windows (from that computer's own drive) and can easily copy the contents from that computer's own drive (where you downloaded the drivers to) onto any partition on YOUR temporarily connected hard drive. When re-attached as master into your own computer again, the drivers are ready and waiting on a partition of your own drive that will remain fitted to your computer while you install Windows onto the primary partition (ie. C:). After booting to a Win98se boot floppy, all the partitions of your hard drive will be accessible as different drive letters.
Just a quick word about the master/slave jumpers. IF the borrowed computer's hard drive has the jumper set to CSL (Cable Select), then you would also have to set your drive to CSL if attaching your drive to the borrowed computer. With jumpers set to Cable Selct, the connections on the ribbon cable determine which drive is master and which is slave. It would be easy enough to see if the jumper on the borrowed computer's hard drive is connected over the CSL jumper pins.
With CSL jumpering :
END connector = master
MIDDLE connector = slave
==========================
Q8. Do I need drivers for an added hard drive?
No. Hard drives are devices that are identified at a very low level (by the BIOS) before DOS or Windows boots, so no drivers are needed for installing a hard drive, either temporarily or permanently. An added hard drive will usually be automatically detected during the initial stages after power on, and will be assigned a drive letter following the existing hard drive. That would temporarily reassign CD-Rom drives to letters higher up, depending on how many partitions were on the drive being attached. Partitions are, as you know, treated as separate drives as far as drive lettering is concerned.
==========================
Q9 to Q12. Iomega Zip Drive Questions (see also section "Zip Drive Questions" above Q7.)
When I mentioned a "Parallel" connection Zip Drive, I was really referring to an EXTERNAL drive that has its own power adaptor and connects via one of those wide connector cables to the computer's Printer Port which is referred to as a Parallel Port. The one fitted internally to your computer is probably connected through a similar internal method, but I have never had a computer with an Internal Iomega Zip Drive.
The nearest mach I can find on the Iomega site refers to a "Zip 250MB ATAPI/IDE Drive":
http://www.iomega.com/support/manuals/zip2a/home.html
The expression ATAPI refers to CD-type Drives, and IDE refers to the standard internal ribbon cable connection. So all that means is that the Zip 250MB Internal drive connects in the standard way as a CD-Rom or CD-RW drive, and uses jumpers to set it as master or slave (http://www.iomega.com/support/manuals/zip2a/ide_atapi.html#jumper) just the same as if it was a CD-type drive.
There are some issues with these internal ZIP Drives, according to the troubleshooting notes on the above page. As you may be aware from previous notes, you can boot the system into the CMOS Setup Screen. Some people wrongly refer to this as booting to the BIOS. The CMOS settings are hardware-specific settings stored in a tiny area of memory normally incorporated into another chip, and storage of the settings relies on a small trickle of power to it from the small coin-cell battery on the motherboard. Most often, you never have a need to change any of these settings, and most often the different drives that will be found by the BIOS as the system boots up will be set in the CMOS to "Auto". This just means that the system automatically finds the drives, identifies whether they are hard drives, CD drives, or other types, and configures them accordingly. This also assigns drive letters to them. The problem seems to be that the Internal Zip drives aren't fully supported by the BIOS of many computers, and they therefore have difficuly in assigning drive letters properly if set to "Auto" in the CMOS.
I guess that all this means is that, as well as the technical aspect of having to unscrew and remove the drive to then implant it into another system (http://www.iomega.com/support/manuals/zip2a/inst_drive_pc.html), you may then have to boot into the CMOS Setup and change settings. This adds too many complications for you to consider swapping the internal zip drive from your computer to the borrowed one and vice-versa. A standalone external Zip Drive would have been a lot more useful in your scenario.
Having discounted swapping of the Zip drive from one computer to another, you will nevertheless want to install drivers for the Zip drive to use it on your computer again after you install Win98se again, so I've provided the following details for completeness.
Q9. The Windows 98se boot floppy does not load a DOS driver for an Iomega Zip Drive. There are two different drivers for a Zip drive: one that loads in DOS and allocates a drive letter (GUEST.EXE), and a driver package that is installed from within Windows to allow access to the drive from a Windows environment (Iomegaware).
Q10. Yes, the unknown factor here was at what stage the zip drive would be detected when Windows begins finding connected hardware. The idea was based on the assumption that you had an EXTERNAL zip drive at your disposal and could temporarily connect it to the borrowed computer, install the drivers for it, and then copy all the downloaded drivers onto it. My suggestion was that you could then leave the zip drive connected via the printer port during Windows setup, and that it MIGHT be detected BEFORE other devices were detected. This may then have allowed you to install a Windows driver (using files extracted in advance from the Iomegaware package and placed on a floppy drive), and then have all the driver files for your computer's other hardware readily available on the accessible zip drive as each hardware device was detected. If it didn't detect before other devices, then that would leave you with your only source of driver files not yet accessible. It was because of this unknown element that I suggested the slaving of hard drives.
The fact that your drive is an Internal Zip Drive MIGHT allow it to be detected and automatically configured without user intervention as a removeable drive during Windows installation because, despite formatting the hard drive and reinstalling Windows, your CMOS Settings will be unchanged and still set as before. Unfortunately I cannot provide a definite answer to this, because I have never worked on a computer with that kind of ZIP Drive fitted.
Q11. Driver package types and ability to use them during Windows setup.
You are quite correct about the "Iomegaware" package being designed to only install from within Windows. Not only does it install the required driver file, but also additional utilities such as its own "Disk Copy" program to duplicate Zip Disks and utilities to change drive letters and icons for them from within Windows. When Windows detects a hardware device, and knows that there isn't a driver installed for it, the process is looking for an *.INF file from which it will then take its instructions to configure the device and copy the required driver files to their correct folders. You are quite correct when you say that the "Found New Hardware Wizard" cannot be guided to use an *.EXE file, because it doesn't know what to do with it.
Some driver packages ONLY come as an .EXE file that cannot be dissected or extracted to a folder in advance such that the folder would then contain the required *.INF file and all the ancilliary ones needed by the driver install process. In this event the only option available, when the "Found New hardware Wizard" detects the device, is to cancel out of it and double-click the driver package *.EXE file as soon as all the other drivers are installed and it boots fully to Windows. This can be a nuisance, but usually doing so will then properly configure the "unknown device" that was detected, will name and categorise it correctly in Device manager, and will install the drivers for it. There can be occasional glitches with this, so it's something to try and avoid wherever possible. That's why it is important to unzip downloaded driver packages that come as one *.ZIP file into their own folder before they are going to be needed. The found hardware wizard cannot open zip files to find a required *.INF file within.
So NO, the Iomegaware driver package .exe file could not be used by guiding the new hardware wizard to it as the system detects the zip drive. There are, however, other resources on the Iomega site that tell you how to make an Iomega Zip Disk bootable (ie. as a big floppy), and how to make a standard Windows boot floppy that allows access to a Zip Drive.
Here are the download links for the different driver packages. They are the direct links, so there is no need to register on the Iomega site before downloading. Just RIGHT-Click on the links and choose "Save TARGET As" to download and save them.
Full Iomegaware package (version 4.0.2) to install Windows Drivers and Utilities.
Provides drive detection and features that help you find, format, protect, manage and change settings on your Iomega drives.
ftp://download.iomega.com/english/ioware-w32-x86-402.exe
Iomega Windows 98 Driver (version 4.0.3) without Firewire support that fits on a floppy.
Firewire is a type of device connection that is faster than the original USB data transfer, but is not supported by Win98 unless you install something like an add-on card with firewire ports and then install the vendor-specific drivers.
ftp://download.iomega.com/english/iodrvf-w98-x86-403.exe
Iomega Zip Driver Explanation:
http://tinyurl.com/n8opa
Q. Do I need to have IomegaWare or drivers installed for my Iomega Zip drive to work?
A. Not always. Most operating systems will automatically detect your Iomega Zip drive with native drivers.
If your operating system is not detecting your drive, download the newest version of IomegaWare.
Q. Where is Guest.exe?
A. There are two versions of the Guest software (ignoring the one for Mac OS):
- the Guest version used to assign a drive letter in DOS
- the Guest version used to assign a drive letter in Windows
For more information about Guest for DOS and Windows see: Answer ID 387:
http://tinyurl.com/np5cp
Despite what Iomega says about the DOS Driver for older Iomega Zip Drives not being available from them any more, it is still available from their website and will work in Windows 98's DOS for your ZIP 250 ATAPI/IDE Drive (as it does for my old external 100 MB Parallel Port Drive):
See their instructions here for preparation of a bootable floppy that installs the DOS Driver for access to the Zip Drive:
http://tinyurl.com/hqmx5
See the link to the DOS Driver? They just don't support it any more, that's all. It still works, although you can ignore the advice on making a bootable floppy the way they say and follow mine after the links.
Original old DOS Driver:
http://download.iomega.com/english/dosdrvr.exe
Newer DOS Driver:
ftp://download.iomega.com/english/iodrv-dos-x86-10.exe
Issues with Drive letter Assignment in Windows 98
(just for completeness and future reference IF you encounter drive lettering differences after installing Win98se)
Q: How do I change the drive letter of my Iomega drive?
A: Drive letter assignments for your hard drive, network drive, CD-ROM or DVD drives, may change after installing your Iomega drive.
http://tinyurl.com/oq488
Scenario 1: Zip ATAPI drive assigned drive letter B and does not function properly: http://tinyurl.com/qduzf
Scenario 2: Iomega drive not being detected (no drive letter) in My Computer: http://tinyurl.com/oumn3
Loading DOS Driver for Internal Iomega ATAPI/IDE Zip Drive
--------------------------
Before considering my instructions below, test and actually see whether they are needed at all.
Boot to a Windows 98se Boot Floppy until it arrives at the A:\> Prompt, and then insert a Zip Disk into your internal Iomega Zip drive. make sure that it has content on it that you will recognise when you ask DOS to list its contents.
Type the following command:
dir /b d:\*.*
If you don't recognise the list of contents as being that on the zip drive, or if it reports something like "invalid drive", then change the command to:
dir /b e:\*.*
Continue right through the alphabet to z:\*.* to ascertain if the native DOS Drivers on a Win98se boot floppy have made the Zip Drive accessible. If not, then you would have to load the drivers for it independently as described below.
Download the file ftp://download.iomega.com/english/iodrv-dos-x86-10.exe.
It is a self-extracting zipped file that will unpack 13 files to the same folder as "iodrv-dos-x86-10.exe" if double-clicked. *** Make sure it is in its OWN folder before double-clicking on it ***
You only need to keep the following unpacked files for your Zip Drive:
GUEST.EXE, GUEST.INI, ASPIATAP.SYS, and ASPIIDE.SYS.
Open the file GUEST.INI in Notepad, and modify it to the following:
[----scan for existing aspi managers---]
SCAN=ON
[----Load aspi managers----]
ASPI=ASPIIDE.SYS /INFO /SCAN
ASPI=ASPIATAP.SYS /INFO /SCAN
Save it, and you have 4 files amounting to 77.3 KB. Your Win98se boot floppy will not normally have enough free space to copy these files onto it, but you can just as easily copy them to any other blank floppy. All you would do to load the DOS Driver is:
1. Boot to your Win98se boot floppy until it stops at the A:\> Prompt
2. Type the command GUEST and press the <Enter> Key.
This should find the drive and assign a drive letter to it.
Additionally, if you wanttotal control over the drive letter assignment, type the following command to assign it to eg. Drive Letter "X:"
GUEST LETTER=X
==========================
Q13. Reinstallation of Graphics Drivers - Previous "Source" used?
It's hard to say with any certainty, but here's generally how it works:
If you saw a listing for, and uninstalled the "nVidia Display Drivers" from Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs, then on the first reboot the system would find this "new hardware". As we all realise, uninstalling software (including drivers) in Windows doesn't always remove registry entries and installed files. If old registry settings remained on your system that logged the original "install source" of the display drivers, then it is entirely possible that it will automatically look in the same place and reinstall the same drivers without prompting.
If you had removed the actual "Display Adapter" device (ie. the nVidia Riva TNT device) from Device Manager, then that most often removes the registry entries and invokes an uninstall routine which similarly can be incomplete. The same results could occur on reboot as above.
If you just "Updated" the drivers by double-clicking a setup.exe file in the folder where you had downloaded the new drivers, then this would normally do the following:
1. Update any files in the same folders where it needed to copy newer file versions
2. Change or refresh any registry settings relating to the device as necessary
3. Log the folder as the new "install source".
In that situation, uninstalling the device or driver as detailed in both of the previous scenarios would PROBABLY look to the folder where you last installed the driver from.
You also have to bear in mind that Windows 98SE probably has very basic driver files at its disposal for an nVidia Riva TNT card or chip, and can often install drivers itself in computers from around the Pentium II or III era.
==========================
Q14 and 15. Hardware Devices - to disconnect or not to disconnect?
You have to be aware of how the motherboard components interact with the BIOS and Windows. Each motherboard has a particular "chipset" named after the type of main controller chips mounted on it. Yours has an Intel BX440 chipset. For all of these components to work properly, "chipset drivers" need to be installed as soon as possible after installing the operating system.
Until that point, the system will boot to Windows OK and may appear to be running OK, but will usually be running on very basic drivers that may not be allowing connected peripherals and drives to work at their full capacity. For instance, the actual sockets on the motherboard into which the ribbon cable from your hard drive and CD-rom drive connect may not be interfacing with the rest of the system at the available speed.
On a modern computer, you would most likely be prompted that Windows was finding these hardware devices and looking for drivers, and would usually have to run the installer from the supplied "motherboard drivers" CD that came with the computer.
The good news for you is that Win98se will install all of its own drivers to support the Intel 440BX chipset without prompting, although you may see this activity and the system may be rebooted several times while it is doing so.
Until you specifically install eg. the driver for your graphics card/chip, then it may be installed and configured by Windows either as:
1. Standard VGA Display Adapter (without ability to change display resolutions)
or
2. As Windows has identified it and installed its own basic drivers (may allow some display changes).
The devices that DON'T require any specific drivers to be installed, other than what Windows installs, are:
Standard Floppy Drive, Hard Drive(s), ATAPI Drives (CD-Rom, DVD-Rom, CD-RW, etc), Standard PS/2 Keyboard and Mouse, Standard CRT Monitor, Parallel Printer Port and Serial Ports. Perhaps I have missed some, but that's not important.
Note: Windows MAY identify your monitor by make and model, but otherwise will just install it as a perfectly functional "Standard Display Type - Plug and Play Monitor".
Despite the fact that Windows installs its own driver support for the Printer Port, that is NOT to say that it can install its own drivers for the printer that happens to be connected to it during Windows setup. That's just an example, but ingeneral you should disconnect ALL non essential devices from the computer PRIOR to running Windows setup. You have quoted an "external hard drive Palm handheld" as something which you obviously have had connected to the computer - presumably via a USB port. Disconnect this device, or it will just complicate the issue.
I would say that the rule of thumb is to most definitely disconnect ALL USB devices before installing Windows. Most USB devices require that you FIRST install the driver package from within Windows and THEN connect the device, at which point it finds the drivers that have been installed.
The same is true of all non-USB Printers, Scanners, and other similar peripherals. Only install these devices AFTER Windows is up and running, and follow the instruction manual to the letter. Some have unique steps to take for successful installations.
==========================
Q16. Hardware re-detection cycle?
Example Scenario:
Windows detects a new device, say a network card, and asks you to allow it to search for drivers. You do so but is unable to find drivers either because the driver file(s) stored locally or on the CD only comprises a single exe file instead of the INF file(s) it needs. You have no option but to Cancel out of this dialog and you would then run the setup.exe file to install the network card's drivers.
Until you run the proper installer file for these drivers, the registry has this "unknown device" logged as a problem device that will show in Device Manager with a red X or a yellow !, and usually also with an appropriate error code to display its disfunctional status.
This is a common scenario with many driver packages that only come as single setup.exe packages, and cancelling out of the hardware identification is unavoidable in some situations. Another example would be chipset drivers for a motherboard where Windows 98se cannot install its own drivers. The system would run in a reduced or very basic capability mode until you double-clicked on the chipset driver setup file to install the right drivers and reboot the system.
A graphics card that is unknown to Windows 98 is a classic example of this. The display will default to the most basic post-setup mode until the correct drivers are installed.
If you were to reboot the computer before installing the drivers for the problem device (eg. the network card example) from the driver package's setup file, Windows WILL NOT NORMALLY re-find the device and try to search for drivers. In other words, the device will USUALLY sit there as an "unknown device" until this is fixed through installation of drivers.
You can sometimes FORCE the system to re notify you of the presence of the same device as a new one by clicking the "refresh" button in Device Manager.
So, to answer your question, NO - you won't NORMALLY get an endless cycle of redetection of the same device, but if it does do this it isn't anything to worry about. Just install the driver using the available method and it should not recur.
==========================
Q17. Reinstalling Win98se on top of itself.
This is known as a "Dirty Reinstall", or sometimes as a "Repair Install", even though there isn't really performing anything that is designed as a bespoke "repair" mode as can be done for Windows XP.
A dirty reinstall of Windows 98 just:
1. Installs Windows System Files that happen to be missing
2. Corrects some erroneous registry entries
3. Recreates system folders that have somehow been lost or deleted
4. Overwrites any system files with newer versions if it detects older versions in place
5. An MAY reinstall any of its own driver files for devices where it detects the absence of required files.
==========================
Q18. I cannot think of any devices that would not show as problem devices in Device manager where the correct drivers had yet to be installed for them.
==========================
Q19. Software to detect "problem devices"?
Look no further than what Windows 98se already provides and has ready for you to use.
Start Menu > "Run" option > and type MSINFO32 > Click OK.
Left Pane > Components > Problem Devices > "Advanced Information".
Edit Menu > Select All > Edit > Copy.
Paste into Notepad
OR
File Menu > Export (to *.txt file) to save as a full system report.
Alternatively, download and run the Dell Diagnostics Utility:
http://ftp.us.dell.com/diags/DD1045.exe
Double-click the file after downloading and follow prompts to make either a bootable floppy or unpack the files for use from the folder where unpacked to.
==========================
Q20. Driver packages as "extracted" files?
Many of the driver setup package .exe files that you download are actually self-extracting ZIP files, but not all of them can be unpacked using WinZip. I use WinRAR which works in a similar way to WinZip, but can extract most of these compressed self-extractors to their own folder with Right-Click options. I ALWAYS see if this is possible with such driver files, and create the following folder names as my "source" on Driver CD's:
- Downloaded - the original download, in whatever format
- Unzipped - where the downloaded .exe was inside a zip file
- Unpacked - where I have unpacked the .exe to its separate files
- Docs - copies of any readme files from the unpacked files, or my notes in *.txt format.
This gives me all the options I would need.
WinRAR Download (trialware with nag screen, but doesn't time-out):
http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm
http://www.rarlab.com/rar/wrar351.exe
==========================
Q21. Driver installation methods - any one better than the other?
It's not really a case of whether any of the methods you describe is any more effective or efficient at installing device driver, it's more a question of the available format of the driver package source file, and when and how Windows detects the device. As discussed in the answer to Questions 16 and 20, there may be times when you have no alternative but to cancel out of an unsuccessful hardware detection and driver search, and then run an installer afterwards.
There ARE some utilities that can help you to back up installed drivers, and these then supposedly allow you to archive them for subsequent reinstallation if ever needed (or if a driver is no longer available and you don't have the original setup files). I've checked out a few, but I'm not convinced that they find and back up all the required files. This isn't something that should unduly concern you though, because you have access to all the device drivers.
Utilities that help you install device drivers? I've never needed anything like this, so I really don't know if there are any such utilities. With Windows XP you can create a custom installation which proceeds in an unattended fashion and allows you to chain together additional drivers that are then installed as part of the Windows setup process. Windows 98 is a lot more basic in this respect. You can create a custom *.INF file that is used as an "answer file" for semi-unattended installations, and can additionally have it import new registry settings and create user "policies" during setup, but it isn't as comprehensive or useful as Windows XP's customised setups.
I wouldn't worry about this aspect. You won't need any additional "helpers" to install your drivers.
==========================
Q22 and Q23. - Driver detection and multiple reboots before setup completes.
Q23 first. Windows 98se setup reboots as many times as is necessary to install itself fully. Usually this will be about 3 or 4 times for your type of computer, but additional reboots might occur where Windows discovers and identifies hardware for which it can install driver support eg. your chipset (see Q14 and Q15). You are correct in saying that the actual Windows setup only requires one reboot, and you then see a screen that says "Windows is starting for the first time", but extra steps are then needed for the hardware detection phases and reboots are necessary to build the hardware database and remove files and registry settings that may no longer be needed. The reason for that FIRST reboot is that up until that stage, Windows setup is using OLD file versions to show the setup windows and dialogs. In other words, the setup graphic user interface is a very basic one that uses DOS-compliant (16-bit) system files borrowed from the antiquated Windows 3.1 which was really just DOS with a graphic interface on top. These files have to be replaced by the proper Windows (32-bit) system files, which is one of the main reasons for the compulsory reboot.
Q22. This has been covered in my answer to Question 16 (and touched on in others).
==========================
Q24. Halting installation of drivers for detected hardware.
Largely covered in my answer to Questions 14, 15, and 16.
You have quoted me (in your Question 21) as having previously stated:
>>>
"What you DON'T really want to happen is the new hardware being detected during the early stages of the first reboots that Win98se does, but only have driver files that exists as single setup.exe files. That would mean having to cancel out of the detection and driver installation options and the device is left listed as an unidentified one in Device Manager......"
<<<
That makes it sound like the end of the world, but it wasn't intended to scare the willies out of you. In essence, IF you can avoid this scenario by unpacking (see answer to your Q20) a setup.exe file to separate source files that include an .INF file that can be found and loaded by the "New Hardware Wizard" as it finds a new device and prompts to search for a driver, then that's ideal. If not, then the answers to Questions 14, 15, and 16 explain how the device would remain as an unidentified device until you install the driver through the package's setup.exe file.
Say, for example, that the post setup hardware detection phase identifies your graphics card/chip - as it will.
If Windows is able to install a suitable driver for this, and your Windows 98se CD is still in the drive, it will install the driver for it. If the CD is no longer in the drive (the most likely scenario because you are prompted to remove it before the system rebootsinto Windows the first time), then it will prompt to search for a driver and one of the presets is to check for one on your CD. If you know that you have a graphics card driver that is a more recent version than a 1998 or earlier version that might be on the Win98se CD, then you can direct the search to look anywhere you want for it, and that includes inserting your own driver CD or floppy, or even directing it to look in a particular folder on another hard drive partition.
Of course, this assumes that you know you have all the separate files in that more recent graphics card driver package, and that one or more of them are *.INF files that are needed by this step. In the event that you know you only have a single setup.exe file, then there is no real sense in telling it to try and find this .exe file, because it won't.
In that case, you have two options:
1. Terminate the "found hardware wizard" with a view to later installing the graphics driver from the .exe file
2. Allow Windows to install any old basic driver for the graphics card that it may be able to locate, and later run the setup file to install the more recent driver.
The results of option No. 1 would be that it would default to a 640 x 480 basic "Safe Mode" display until the driver was properly installed, because it would be using the default "Standard VGA" drivers.
hat you have to be aware of is that Windows is essentially already installed by the time it starts identifying your hardware, so you are no longer in the "SETUP" phase. terminating a particular detection of found hardware therefore has no effect on Windows Setup, but doing so is undesirable unless there is a good reason. Bettter to allow it to finish unsuccessfully trying to locate a driver and then close the dialog rather than just cancelling out of it.
==========================
Q25. Backing up currently installed drivers for re-use.
I saw your logic in the aforesaid question, but I can't see that you have any need to back up your currently installed device drivers UNLESS you have an old device for which there is no driver available for download at the vendor's website AND you have misplaced the original driver CD. In your particular case, you have the links for all the drivers you need.
In addition to this, as I mentioned in my answer to your Question 21, I'm not convinced that these utilities are fully capable of finding and archiving ALL the required files that were installed by the original driver setup. I have experimented with a few of them and compared the archived file selection against ones that I KNOW to have been installed, and the file sets were incomplete and therefore incapable of restoring the drivers properly again. There is the other issue of the fact that these utilities are not able to create a setup.exe file to match one from which drivers were originally installed. Without that, if that was the only format that the driver came as, you wouldn't be able to reinstall those files retrieved and backed up by the utility.
The idea here is to get a completely fresh installation and install fresh and working drivers for all your devices. By archiving drivers with a backup utility, it is defeating the objective somewhat.
By all means, try utilities like the following if you wish:
http://www.zhangduo.com/driverbackup.html
http://www.driverguidetoolkit.com/
==========================
Q26. Device Manager Error Codes.
Exclamation Mark - the device is conflicting with another hardware device.
Red X - the device has been disabled, removed or that Windows is unable to locate the device.
Common Error Codes that explain more about why the device is remarked with a X or !
http://www.helpwithwindows.com/windows98/troub-46.html
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=125174
http://www.computerhope.com/win95er.htm#05
Old Sound Cards and Standard Modem Cards commonly want to use a particular IRQ setting, and you sometimes get a "conflict".
If this is known from previous installs, the easiest way to prevent it is to remove one or other card before setup, and then add the other after setup. Where it is not a previously known issue, it can usually be remedied by reserving an IRQ assignment for one or other of the cards, or by changing the memory resources so that they can share an IRQ number.
Cross that bridge IF you ever arrive at it.
==========================
Q27. Driver installation package formats.
Much of this has been discussed previously, and YES, you are generally correct when you say that the software creator specifically chose a particular format for a specific reason. The trouble is that some software developers make assumptions and don't think ahead. For example, I have had one graphics driver setup file that displays an options dialog which is far too large for the "Safe Mode" type screen display prior to installing the driver, and the dialog can't be resized. It is therefore impossible to see the Yes, No, Cancel buttons and some of the other option boxes because they are off the screen at the bottom. Badly thought out? Certainly.
Compaq and Dell package all their drivers as .EXE files, but they are (nearly always) self-extracting ones from which you can extract the files in advance. See my answers to your Question 20 for instructions on how to unpack self-extracting .exe files. See other previous answers for details of how this may or may not affect you when the post setup hardware detection finds the new devices and prompts for a search to find drivers.
==========================
Hopefully this answers your queries fully.
Regards
Bill
Your questions answered, including that covered in your last question above.
Q1. Do you have a FULL Win98se CD or an Upgrade Version?
You previously provided a "treeprint" listing of your Win98se CD, and I compared it with on made from my own full Win98se CD. When I say "full", what I mean is that MY CD is an OEM version (ie. supplied with a computer), but it is not one of those "recovery" CD's as furnished with many older Compaq, Dell, etc. PC's that came preinstalled with Win98se and will only "repair" an installation or force a complete hard drive format and reinstall. It is non-machine-specific, and so can be installed on ANY computer. I have installed full Win98se installations from it on probably about 10 or more different computers over the years, and have done fresh installations about 4 or 5 times over on each of them from that CD.
The direct comparison between the listing from YOUR CD and MINE are as close to an exact match as is needed. The only differences are completely insignificant to your usage as follows:
Mine has an "admin" folder under CD:\tools, and this contains a single batch file that is ONLY used by OEM System Builders to create custom installations that can be used to configure multiple networked computers. Mine also contains an additional folder namely CD:\tools\nettools\fac. This contains files that are ONLY used by the above batch file.
The only other differences are that my CD contains 3 additional files in the "win98" folder:
- OEMSETUP.EXE (used by equipment builders to do customised and "branded" installations)
- OEMSETUP.BIN (required by oemsetup.exe), and
- ** FORMAT.COM **
The absence of the FORMAT program file on YOUR CD is NOT important and only means that you wouldn't be able to boot to DOS from the CD and format the hard drive using to FORMAT command from the CD. This option means absolutely nothing if you boot to a Win98se boot floppy, from which the format command is freely available.
So, in short, your CD is fully capable of installing a COMPLETE version of Win98se on a blank hard drive without the need to have first installed a lesser operating system ie. Win98 or Win95. Had that been the case, the title on the CD would have been "Windows 98 Second Edition Upgrade Edition". It is puzzling that the title shown on the CD is "Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition Updates". I can only assume that it means "WITH updates". As long as you are sure that is the same CD you created the treeprint listing from, then you have nothing to worry about, your CD is as good as any full retail version.
==========================
Q2. Not applicable, given the above explanation, but to answer it anyway. An UpGRADE version (rather than "upDATE" as yours states) would overwrite quite a number of files installed by the lesser qualifying operating system, but would back up the files first so that the upgrade could later be uninstalled to revert to the previously installed lesser version. That would take up some extra hard drive space, but this isn't applicable to you.
==========================
Q3. Devices that show as "No drivers are required or have been loaded for this device".
This status shown in Device manager will be seen for devices such as the Monitor, Hard Drives, Floppy Drives, and CD Drives because they don't require independent "drivers". They do need the support of files that are always installed, so I suppose you could liken them to drivers in a way, but Windows does not treat them as drivers as you would need for something like a modem, sound card, or graphics card. IF you DID see that message in the properties shown for a device that DID require drivers, then the device status would usually be accompanied by a status message that it wasn't working properly, so I can only assume that you were looking at those devices that don't need drivers.
==========================
Q4 to Q6 (DOS naming convention and driver file names).
Any device that has the capability of working in a DOS environment will have a DOS-Specific driver with a conforming DOS name. For example, to access a CD-Rom Drive from DOS, a DOS-compatible CD-Rom Driver has to be loaded into memory eg. from a Win98se boot floppy when you choose to boot "With CD-Rom Support". Examples of DOS CD-Rom drivers are OAKCDROM.SYS (8+3) or BTCDROM.SYS (7+3).
Standard Floppy Drives and standard PS/2 Keyboards are supported by DOS drivers on a Win98se boot floppy, so they will be immediately accessible after booting to such a floppy, or even just booting into DOS Mode on a computer that already has Win98se installed on it.
DOS-compliant names are not something you will have to worry about when installing Windows 98se, because by the time the "Found New Hardware Wizard" detects new devices and prompts for you to guide it to a folder or CD for the files, the installation is now able to use long filenames properly ie. you will be in Windows mode.
Q4. Generally software developers try to keep filenames short, but that's usually because short names are easier to use when compiling the files that do the work of installing rather than to be DOS-compliant.
Q5. I wouldn't start renaming any driver files, because their setup routine will usually refer to them by the originally given file name.
==========================
ZIP Drive Question (see also Q9 to Q12.)
When I was referring to a "parallel port" zip drive, I was really referring to an external Iomega Zip Drive that connects with a printer-type cable to the Printer Port, which is referred to as a "parallel port". An INTERNAL Zip Drive connects with a flat ribbon cable, and that type of data transfer is also commonly referred to a "parallel" data transfer (as opposed to "serial").
It could very well be the case that the Win98se CD contains basic driver files that will allow access to the Zip drive, but I couldn't guarantee that it would work. On your CD and mine, you will find a folder CD:\drivers\storage\iomega
I still believe that your best option is the temporary slaving method which you have described in your Question 7. The steps you have detailed are all correct for that particular temporary "hosting" of the borrowed hard drive into your own computer. You have grasped the principles completely in this respect, but it depends what you propose doing thereafter.
==========================
Q7. Connecting a hard drive in another computer as Slave.
Temporarily slaving the BORROWED PC's hard drive (containing your downloaded drivers) into YOUR computer certainly serves to supply a good "source" for the drivers when it comes to installing them, but the setup details saved to your registry will thereafter reflect the drive temporarily slaved into your computer as having been the "source" from which the drivers were installed. After you remove the drive, that source is gone and may cause the system to hunt for it if you to reinstall any particular driver.
I suppose the idea in that method would be to then copy the contents from the borrowed slave drive onto one of your own hard drive's partitions AFTER Windows was installed successfully to your own drive, and this would serve as permanent storage for subsequent reinstallations of those drivers from that partition. No great problem in that case then, because you would just redirect it to then look to your own hard drive partition where you copied the files after the install was complete, and before you disconnected the borrowed hard drive.
There is one potential hazard with installing Windows to your own hard drive while you had someone else's hard drive temporarily attached, and this would be that you would have to be absolutely sure that the drives were correctly jumpered and connected as master and slave, or you could end up installing Win98se onto the borrowed computer's drive.
Your alternative option (still referring to temporary slaving of drives) would be to connect YOUR hard drive as SLAVE in the BORROWED computer, while still leaving that computer's own drive as the master in its own computer. That way, you have full access to Windows (from that computer's own drive) and can easily copy the contents from that computer's own drive (where you downloaded the drivers to) onto any partition on YOUR temporarily connected hard drive. When re-attached as master into your own computer again, the drivers are ready and waiting on a partition of your own drive that will remain fitted to your computer while you install Windows onto the primary partition (ie. C:). After booting to a Win98se boot floppy, all the partitions of your hard drive will be accessible as different drive letters.
Just a quick word about the master/slave jumpers. IF the borrowed computer's hard drive has the jumper set to CSL (Cable Select), then you would also have to set your drive to CSL if attaching your drive to the borrowed computer. With jumpers set to Cable Selct, the connections on the ribbon cable determine which drive is master and which is slave. It would be easy enough to see if the jumper on the borrowed computer's hard drive is connected over the CSL jumper pins.
With CSL jumpering :
END connector = master
MIDDLE connector = slave
==========================
Q8. Do I need drivers for an added hard drive?
No. Hard drives are devices that are identified at a very low level (by the BIOS) before DOS or Windows boots, so no drivers are needed for installing a hard drive, either temporarily or permanently. An added hard drive will usually be automatically detected during the initial stages after power on, and will be assigned a drive letter following the existing hard drive. That would temporarily reassign CD-Rom drives to letters higher up, depending on how many partitions were on the drive being attached. Partitions are, as you know, treated as separate drives as far as drive lettering is concerned.
==========================
Q9 to Q12. Iomega Zip Drive Questions (see also section "Zip Drive Questions" above Q7.)
When I mentioned a "Parallel" connection Zip Drive, I was really referring to an EXTERNAL drive that has its own power adaptor and connects via one of those wide connector cables to the computer's Printer Port which is referred to as a Parallel Port. The one fitted internally to your computer is probably connected through a similar internal method, but I have never had a computer with an Internal Iomega Zip Drive.
The nearest mach I can find on the Iomega site refers to a "Zip 250MB ATAPI/IDE Drive":
http://www.iomega.com/support/manuals/zip2a/home.html
The expression ATAPI refers to CD-type Drives, and IDE refers to the standard internal ribbon cable connection. So all that means is that the Zip 250MB Internal drive connects in the standard way as a CD-Rom or CD-RW drive, and uses jumpers to set it as master or slave (http://www.iomega.com/support/manuals/zip2a/ide_atapi.html#jumper) just the same as if it was a CD-type drive.
There are some issues with these internal ZIP Drives, according to the troubleshooting notes on the above page. As you may be aware from previous notes, you can boot the system into the CMOS Setup Screen. Some people wrongly refer to this as booting to the BIOS. The CMOS settings are hardware-specific settings stored in a tiny area of memory normally incorporated into another chip, and storage of the settings relies on a small trickle of power to it from the small coin-cell battery on the motherboard. Most often, you never have a need to change any of these settings, and most often the different drives that will be found by the BIOS as the system boots up will be set in the CMOS to "Auto". This just means that the system automatically finds the drives, identifies whether they are hard drives, CD drives, or other types, and configures them accordingly. This also assigns drive letters to them. The problem seems to be that the Internal Zip drives aren't fully supported by the BIOS of many computers, and they therefore have difficuly in assigning drive letters properly if set to "Auto" in the CMOS.
I guess that all this means is that, as well as the technical aspect of having to unscrew and remove the drive to then implant it into another system (http://www.iomega.com/support/manuals/zip2a/inst_drive_pc.html), you may then have to boot into the CMOS Setup and change settings. This adds too many complications for you to consider swapping the internal zip drive from your computer to the borrowed one and vice-versa. A standalone external Zip Drive would have been a lot more useful in your scenario.
Having discounted swapping of the Zip drive from one computer to another, you will nevertheless want to install drivers for the Zip drive to use it on your computer again after you install Win98se again, so I've provided the following details for completeness.
Q9. The Windows 98se boot floppy does not load a DOS driver for an Iomega Zip Drive. There are two different drivers for a Zip drive: one that loads in DOS and allocates a drive letter (GUEST.EXE), and a driver package that is installed from within Windows to allow access to the drive from a Windows environment (Iomegaware).
Q10. Yes, the unknown factor here was at what stage the zip drive would be detected when Windows begins finding connected hardware. The idea was based on the assumption that you had an EXTERNAL zip drive at your disposal and could temporarily connect it to the borrowed computer, install the drivers for it, and then copy all the downloaded drivers onto it. My suggestion was that you could then leave the zip drive connected via the printer port during Windows setup, and that it MIGHT be detected BEFORE other devices were detected. This may then have allowed you to install a Windows driver (using files extracted in advance from the Iomegaware package and placed on a floppy drive), and then have all the driver files for your computer's other hardware readily available on the accessible zip drive as each hardware device was detected. If it didn't detect before other devices, then that would leave you with your only source of driver files not yet accessible. It was because of this unknown element that I suggested the slaving of hard drives.
The fact that your drive is an Internal Zip Drive MIGHT allow it to be detected and automatically configured without user intervention as a removeable drive during Windows installation because, despite formatting the hard drive and reinstalling Windows, your CMOS Settings will be unchanged and still set as before. Unfortunately I cannot provide a definite answer to this, because I have never worked on a computer with that kind of ZIP Drive fitted.
Q11. Driver package types and ability to use them during Windows setup.
You are quite correct about the "Iomegaware" package being designed to only install from within Windows. Not only does it install the required driver file, but also additional utilities such as its own "Disk Copy" program to duplicate Zip Disks and utilities to change drive letters and icons for them from within Windows. When Windows detects a hardware device, and knows that there isn't a driver installed for it, the process is looking for an *.INF file from which it will then take its instructions to configure the device and copy the required driver files to their correct folders. You are quite correct when you say that the "Found New Hardware Wizard" cannot be guided to use an *.EXE file, because it doesn't know what to do with it.
Some driver packages ONLY come as an .EXE file that cannot be dissected or extracted to a folder in advance such that the folder would then contain the required *.INF file and all the ancilliary ones needed by the driver install process. In this event the only option available, when the "Found New hardware Wizard" detects the device, is to cancel out of it and double-click the driver package *.EXE file as soon as all the other drivers are installed and it boots fully to Windows. This can be a nuisance, but usually doing so will then properly configure the "unknown device" that was detected, will name and categorise it correctly in Device manager, and will install the drivers for it. There can be occasional glitches with this, so it's something to try and avoid wherever possible. That's why it is important to unzip downloaded driver packages that come as one *.ZIP file into their own folder before they are going to be needed. The found hardware wizard cannot open zip files to find a required *.INF file within.
So NO, the Iomegaware driver package .exe file could not be used by guiding the new hardware wizard to it as the system detects the zip drive. There are, however, other resources on the Iomega site that tell you how to make an Iomega Zip Disk bootable (ie. as a big floppy), and how to make a standard Windows boot floppy that allows access to a Zip Drive.
Here are the download links for the different driver packages. They are the direct links, so there is no need to register on the Iomega site before downloading. Just RIGHT-Click on the links and choose "Save TARGET As" to download and save them.
Full Iomegaware package (version 4.0.2) to install Windows Drivers and Utilities.
Provides drive detection and features that help you find, format, protect, manage and change settings on your Iomega drives.
ftp://download.iomega.com/english/ioware-w32-x86-402.exe
Iomega Windows 98 Driver (version 4.0.3) without Firewire support that fits on a floppy.
Firewire is a type of device connection that is faster than the original USB data transfer, but is not supported by Win98 unless you install something like an add-on card with firewire ports and then install the vendor-specific drivers.
ftp://download.iomega.com/english/iodrvf-w98-x86-403.exe
Iomega Zip Driver Explanation:
http://tinyurl.com/n8opa
Q. Do I need to have IomegaWare or drivers installed for my Iomega Zip drive to work?
A. Not always. Most operating systems will automatically detect your Iomega Zip drive with native drivers.
If your operating system is not detecting your drive, download the newest version of IomegaWare.
Q. Where is Guest.exe?
A. There are two versions of the Guest software (ignoring the one for Mac OS):
- the Guest version used to assign a drive letter in DOS
- the Guest version used to assign a drive letter in Windows
For more information about Guest for DOS and Windows see: Answer ID 387:
http://tinyurl.com/np5cp
Despite what Iomega says about the DOS Driver for older Iomega Zip Drives not being available from them any more, it is still available from their website and will work in Windows 98's DOS for your ZIP 250 ATAPI/IDE Drive (as it does for my old external 100 MB Parallel Port Drive):
See their instructions here for preparation of a bootable floppy that installs the DOS Driver for access to the Zip Drive:
http://tinyurl.com/hqmx5
See the link to the DOS Driver? They just don't support it any more, that's all. It still works, although you can ignore the advice on making a bootable floppy the way they say and follow mine after the links.
Original old DOS Driver:
http://download.iomega.com/english/dosdrvr.exe
Newer DOS Driver:
ftp://download.iomega.com/english/iodrv-dos-x86-10.exe
Issues with Drive letter Assignment in Windows 98
(just for completeness and future reference IF you encounter drive lettering differences after installing Win98se)
Q: How do I change the drive letter of my Iomega drive?
A: Drive letter assignments for your hard drive, network drive, CD-ROM or DVD drives, may change after installing your Iomega drive.
http://tinyurl.com/oq488
Scenario 1: Zip ATAPI drive assigned drive letter B and does not function properly: http://tinyurl.com/qduzf
Scenario 2: Iomega drive not being detected (no drive letter) in My Computer: http://tinyurl.com/oumn3
Loading DOS Driver for Internal Iomega ATAPI/IDE Zip Drive
--------------------------
Before considering my instructions below, test and actually see whether they are needed at all.
Boot to a Windows 98se Boot Floppy until it arrives at the A:\> Prompt, and then insert a Zip Disk into your internal Iomega Zip drive. make sure that it has content on it that you will recognise when you ask DOS to list its contents.
Type the following command:
dir /b d:\*.*
If you don't recognise the list of contents as being that on the zip drive, or if it reports something like "invalid drive", then change the command to:
dir /b e:\*.*
Continue right through the alphabet to z:\*.* to ascertain if the native DOS Drivers on a Win98se boot floppy have made the Zip Drive accessible. If not, then you would have to load the drivers for it independently as described below.
Download the file ftp://download.iomega.com/english/iodrv-dos-x86-10.exe.
It is a self-extracting zipped file that will unpack 13 files to the same folder as "iodrv-dos-x86-10.exe" if double-clicked. *** Make sure it is in its OWN folder before double-clicking on it ***
You only need to keep the following unpacked files for your Zip Drive:
GUEST.EXE, GUEST.INI, ASPIATAP.SYS, and ASPIIDE.SYS.
Open the file GUEST.INI in Notepad, and modify it to the following:
[----scan for existing aspi managers---]
SCAN=ON
[----Load aspi managers----]
ASPI=ASPIIDE.SYS /INFO /SCAN
ASPI=ASPIATAP.SYS /INFO /SCAN
Save it, and you have 4 files amounting to 77.3 KB. Your Win98se boot floppy will not normally have enough free space to copy these files onto it, but you can just as easily copy them to any other blank floppy. All you would do to load the DOS Driver is:
1. Boot to your Win98se boot floppy until it stops at the A:\> Prompt
2. Type the command GUEST and press the <Enter> Key.
This should find the drive and assign a drive letter to it.
Additionally, if you wanttotal control over the drive letter assignment, type the following command to assign it to eg. Drive Letter "X:"
GUEST LETTER=X
==========================
Q13. Reinstallation of Graphics Drivers - Previous "Source" used?
It's hard to say with any certainty, but here's generally how it works:
If you saw a listing for, and uninstalled the "nVidia Display Drivers" from Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs, then on the first reboot the system would find this "new hardware". As we all realise, uninstalling software (including drivers) in Windows doesn't always remove registry entries and installed files. If old registry settings remained on your system that logged the original "install source" of the display drivers, then it is entirely possible that it will automatically look in the same place and reinstall the same drivers without prompting.
If you had removed the actual "Display Adapter" device (ie. the nVidia Riva TNT device) from Device Manager, then that most often removes the registry entries and invokes an uninstall routine which similarly can be incomplete. The same results could occur on reboot as above.
If you just "Updated" the drivers by double-clicking a setup.exe file in the folder where you had downloaded the new drivers, then this would normally do the following:
1. Update any files in the same folders where it needed to copy newer file versions
2. Change or refresh any registry settings relating to the device as necessary
3. Log the folder as the new "install source".
In that situation, uninstalling the device or driver as detailed in both of the previous scenarios would PROBABLY look to the folder where you last installed the driver from.
You also have to bear in mind that Windows 98SE probably has very basic driver files at its disposal for an nVidia Riva TNT card or chip, and can often install drivers itself in computers from around the Pentium II or III era.
==========================
Q14 and 15. Hardware Devices - to disconnect or not to disconnect?
You have to be aware of how the motherboard components interact with the BIOS and Windows. Each motherboard has a particular "chipset" named after the type of main controller chips mounted on it. Yours has an Intel BX440 chipset. For all of these components to work properly, "chipset drivers" need to be installed as soon as possible after installing the operating system.
Until that point, the system will boot to Windows OK and may appear to be running OK, but will usually be running on very basic drivers that may not be allowing connected peripherals and drives to work at their full capacity. For instance, the actual sockets on the motherboard into which the ribbon cable from your hard drive and CD-rom drive connect may not be interfacing with the rest of the system at the available speed.
On a modern computer, you would most likely be prompted that Windows was finding these hardware devices and looking for drivers, and would usually have to run the installer from the supplied "motherboard drivers" CD that came with the computer.
The good news for you is that Win98se will install all of its own drivers to support the Intel 440BX chipset without prompting, although you may see this activity and the system may be rebooted several times while it is doing so.
Until you specifically install eg. the driver for your graphics card/chip, then it may be installed and configured by Windows either as:
1. Standard VGA Display Adapter (without ability to change display resolutions)
or
2. As Windows has identified it and installed its own basic drivers (may allow some display changes).
The devices that DON'T require any specific drivers to be installed, other than what Windows installs, are:
Standard Floppy Drive, Hard Drive(s), ATAPI Drives (CD-Rom, DVD-Rom, CD-RW, etc), Standard PS/2 Keyboard and Mouse, Standard CRT Monitor, Parallel Printer Port and Serial Ports. Perhaps I have missed some, but that's not important.
Note: Windows MAY identify your monitor by make and model, but otherwise will just install it as a perfectly functional "Standard Display Type - Plug and Play Monitor".
Despite the fact that Windows installs its own driver support for the Printer Port, that is NOT to say that it can install its own drivers for the printer that happens to be connected to it during Windows setup. That's just an example, but ingeneral you should disconnect ALL non essential devices from the computer PRIOR to running Windows setup. You have quoted an "external hard drive Palm handheld" as something which you obviously have had connected to the computer - presumably via a USB port. Disconnect this device, or it will just complicate the issue.
I would say that the rule of thumb is to most definitely disconnect ALL USB devices before installing Windows. Most USB devices require that you FIRST install the driver package from within Windows and THEN connect the device, at which point it finds the drivers that have been installed.
The same is true of all non-USB Printers, Scanners, and other similar peripherals. Only install these devices AFTER Windows is up and running, and follow the instruction manual to the letter. Some have unique steps to take for successful installations.
==========================
Q16. Hardware re-detection cycle?
Example Scenario:
Windows detects a new device, say a network card, and asks you to allow it to search for drivers. You do so but is unable to find drivers either because the driver file(s) stored locally or on the CD only comprises a single exe file instead of the INF file(s) it needs. You have no option but to Cancel out of this dialog and you would then run the setup.exe file to install the network card's drivers.
Until you run the proper installer file for these drivers, the registry has this "unknown device" logged as a problem device that will show in Device Manager with a red X or a yellow !, and usually also with an appropriate error code to display its disfunctional status.
This is a common scenario with many driver packages that only come as single setup.exe packages, and cancelling out of the hardware identification is unavoidable in some situations. Another example would be chipset drivers for a motherboard where Windows 98se cannot install its own drivers. The system would run in a reduced or very basic capability mode until you double-clicked on the chipset driver setup file to install the right drivers and reboot the system.
A graphics card that is unknown to Windows 98 is a classic example of this. The display will default to the most basic post-setup mode until the correct drivers are installed.
If you were to reboot the computer before installing the drivers for the problem device (eg. the network card example) from the driver package's setup file, Windows WILL NOT NORMALLY re-find the device and try to search for drivers. In other words, the device will USUALLY sit there as an "unknown device" until this is fixed through installation of drivers.
You can sometimes FORCE the system to re notify you of the presence of the same device as a new one by clicking the "refresh" button in Device Manager.
So, to answer your question, NO - you won't NORMALLY get an endless cycle of redetection of the same device, but if it does do this it isn't anything to worry about. Just install the driver using the available method and it should not recur.
==========================
Q17. Reinstalling Win98se on top of itself.
This is known as a "Dirty Reinstall", or sometimes as a "Repair Install", even though there isn't really performing anything that is designed as a bespoke "repair" mode as can be done for Windows XP.
A dirty reinstall of Windows 98 just:
1. Installs Windows System Files that happen to be missing
2. Corrects some erroneous registry entries
3. Recreates system folders that have somehow been lost or deleted
4. Overwrites any system files with newer versions if it detects older versions in place
5. An MAY reinstall any of its own driver files for devices where it detects the absence of required files.
==========================
Q18. I cannot think of any devices that would not show as problem devices in Device manager where the correct drivers had yet to be installed for them.
==========================
Q19. Software to detect "problem devices"?
Look no further than what Windows 98se already provides and has ready for you to use.
Start Menu > "Run" option > and type MSINFO32 > Click OK.
Left Pane > Components > Problem Devices > "Advanced Information".
Edit Menu > Select All > Edit > Copy.
Paste into Notepad
OR
File Menu > Export (to *.txt file) to save as a full system report.
Alternatively, download and run the Dell Diagnostics Utility:
http://ftp.us.dell.com/diags/DD1045.exe
Double-click the file after downloading and follow prompts to make either a bootable floppy or unpack the files for use from the folder where unpacked to.
==========================
Q20. Driver packages as "extracted" files?
Many of the driver setup package .exe files that you download are actually self-extracting ZIP files, but not all of them can be unpacked using WinZip. I use WinRAR which works in a similar way to WinZip, but can extract most of these compressed self-extractors to their own folder with Right-Click options. I ALWAYS see if this is possible with such driver files, and create the following folder names as my "source" on Driver CD's:
- Downloaded - the original download, in whatever format
- Unzipped - where the downloaded .exe was inside a zip file
- Unpacked - where I have unpacked the .exe to its separate files
- Docs - copies of any readme files from the unpacked files, or my notes in *.txt format.
This gives me all the options I would need.
WinRAR Download (trialware with nag screen, but doesn't time-out):
http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm
http://www.rarlab.com/rar/wrar351.exe
==========================
Q21. Driver installation methods - any one better than the other?
It's not really a case of whether any of the methods you describe is any more effective or efficient at installing device driver, it's more a question of the available format of the driver package source file, and when and how Windows detects the device. As discussed in the answer to Questions 16 and 20, there may be times when you have no alternative but to cancel out of an unsuccessful hardware detection and driver search, and then run an installer afterwards.
There ARE some utilities that can help you to back up installed drivers, and these then supposedly allow you to archive them for subsequent reinstallation if ever needed (or if a driver is no longer available and you don't have the original setup files). I've checked out a few, but I'm not convinced that they find and back up all the required files. This isn't something that should unduly concern you though, because you have access to all the device drivers.
Utilities that help you install device drivers? I've never needed anything like this, so I really don't know if there are any such utilities. With Windows XP you can create a custom installation which proceeds in an unattended fashion and allows you to chain together additional drivers that are then installed as part of the Windows setup process. Windows 98 is a lot more basic in this respect. You can create a custom *.INF file that is used as an "answer file" for semi-unattended installations, and can additionally have it import new registry settings and create user "policies" during setup, but it isn't as comprehensive or useful as Windows XP's customised setups.
I wouldn't worry about this aspect. You won't need any additional "helpers" to install your drivers.
==========================
Q22 and Q23. - Driver detection and multiple reboots before setup completes.
Q23 first. Windows 98se setup reboots as many times as is necessary to install itself fully. Usually this will be about 3 or 4 times for your type of computer, but additional reboots might occur where Windows discovers and identifies hardware for which it can install driver support eg. your chipset (see Q14 and Q15). You are correct in saying that the actual Windows setup only requires one reboot, and you then see a screen that says "Windows is starting for the first time", but extra steps are then needed for the hardware detection phases and reboots are necessary to build the hardware database and remove files and registry settings that may no longer be needed. The reason for that FIRST reboot is that up until that stage, Windows setup is using OLD file versions to show the setup windows and dialogs. In other words, the setup graphic user interface is a very basic one that uses DOS-compliant (16-bit) system files borrowed from the antiquated Windows 3.1 which was really just DOS with a graphic interface on top. These files have to be replaced by the proper Windows (32-bit) system files, which is one of the main reasons for the compulsory reboot.
Q22. This has been covered in my answer to Question 16 (and touched on in others).
==========================
Q24. Halting installation of drivers for detected hardware.
Largely covered in my answer to Questions 14, 15, and 16.
You have quoted me (in your Question 21) as having previously stated:
>>>
"What you DON'T really want to happen is the new hardware being detected during the early stages of the first reboots that Win98se does, but only have driver files that exists as single setup.exe files. That would mean having to cancel out of the detection and driver installation options and the device is left listed as an unidentified one in Device Manager......"
<<<
That makes it sound like the end of the world, but it wasn't intended to scare the willies out of you. In essence, IF you can avoid this scenario by unpacking (see answer to your Q20) a setup.exe file to separate source files that include an .INF file that can be found and loaded by the "New Hardware Wizard" as it finds a new device and prompts to search for a driver, then that's ideal. If not, then the answers to Questions 14, 15, and 16 explain how the device would remain as an unidentified device until you install the driver through the package's setup.exe file.
Say, for example, that the post setup hardware detection phase identifies your graphics card/chip - as it will.
If Windows is able to install a suitable driver for this, and your Windows 98se CD is still in the drive, it will install the driver for it. If the CD is no longer in the drive (the most likely scenario because you are prompted to remove it before the system rebootsinto Windows the first time), then it will prompt to search for a driver and one of the presets is to check for one on your CD. If you know that you have a graphics card driver that is a more recent version than a 1998 or earlier version that might be on the Win98se CD, then you can direct the search to look anywhere you want for it, and that includes inserting your own driver CD or floppy, or even directing it to look in a particular folder on another hard drive partition.
Of course, this assumes that you know you have all the separate files in that more recent graphics card driver package, and that one or more of them are *.INF files that are needed by this step. In the event that you know you only have a single setup.exe file, then there is no real sense in telling it to try and find this .exe file, because it won't.
In that case, you have two options:
1. Terminate the "found hardware wizard" with a view to later installing the graphics driver from the .exe file
2. Allow Windows to install any old basic driver for the graphics card that it may be able to locate, and later run the setup file to install the more recent driver.
The results of option No. 1 would be that it would default to a 640 x 480 basic "Safe Mode" display until the driver was properly installed, because it would be using the default "Standard VGA" drivers.
hat you have to be aware of is that Windows is essentially already installed by the time it starts identifying your hardware, so you are no longer in the "SETUP" phase. terminating a particular detection of found hardware therefore has no effect on Windows Setup, but doing so is undesirable unless there is a good reason. Bettter to allow it to finish unsuccessfully trying to locate a driver and then close the dialog rather than just cancelling out of it.
==========================
Q25. Backing up currently installed drivers for re-use.
I saw your logic in the aforesaid question, but I can't see that you have any need to back up your currently installed device drivers UNLESS you have an old device for which there is no driver available for download at the vendor's website AND you have misplaced the original driver CD. In your particular case, you have the links for all the drivers you need.
In addition to this, as I mentioned in my answer to your Question 21, I'm not convinced that these utilities are fully capable of finding and archiving ALL the required files that were installed by the original driver setup. I have experimented with a few of them and compared the archived file selection against ones that I KNOW to have been installed, and the file sets were incomplete and therefore incapable of restoring the drivers properly again. There is the other issue of the fact that these utilities are not able to create a setup.exe file to match one from which drivers were originally installed. Without that, if that was the only format that the driver came as, you wouldn't be able to reinstall those files retrieved and backed up by the utility.
The idea here is to get a completely fresh installation and install fresh and working drivers for all your devices. By archiving drivers with a backup utility, it is defeating the objective somewhat.
By all means, try utilities like the following if you wish:
http://www.zhangduo.com/driverbackup.html
http://www.driverguidetoolkit.com/
==========================
Q26. Device Manager Error Codes.
Exclamation Mark - the device is conflicting with another hardware device.
Red X - the device has been disabled, removed or that Windows is unable to locate the device.
Common Error Codes that explain more about why the device is remarked with a X or !
http://www.helpwithwindows.com/windows98/troub-46.html
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=125174
http://www.computerhope.com/win95er.htm#05
Old Sound Cards and Standard Modem Cards commonly want to use a particular IRQ setting, and you sometimes get a "conflict".
If this is known from previous installs, the easiest way to prevent it is to remove one or other card before setup, and then add the other after setup. Where it is not a previously known issue, it can usually be remedied by reserving an IRQ assignment for one or other of the cards, or by changing the memory resources so that they can share an IRQ number.
Cross that bridge IF you ever arrive at it.
==========================
Q27. Driver installation package formats.
Much of this has been discussed previously, and YES, you are generally correct when you say that the software creator specifically chose a particular format for a specific reason. The trouble is that some software developers make assumptions and don't think ahead. For example, I have had one graphics driver setup file that displays an options dialog which is far too large for the "Safe Mode" type screen display prior to installing the driver, and the dialog can't be resized. It is therefore impossible to see the Yes, No, Cancel buttons and some of the other option boxes because they are off the screen at the bottom. Badly thought out? Certainly.
Compaq and Dell package all their drivers as .EXE files, but they are (nearly always) self-extracting ones from which you can extract the files in advance. See my answers to your Question 20 for instructions on how to unpack self-extracting .exe files. See other previous answers for details of how this may or may not affect you when the post setup hardware detection finds the new devices and prompts for a search to find drivers.
==========================
Hopefully this answers your queries fully.
Regards
Bill
ASKER
Hello Bill,
Well, to be realistic, not quite “fully” answered. But, thank you. You did answer my questions to the limit of my knowledge but I didn’t know enough to ask all the questions that were needed but I believe the answers to these last few ought to finish the lot off before I take the plunge.
You mentioned some potential problems that might arise from the master-slave setup:
1) If the source of needed drivers is the slave drive then the newly forming registry will, thereafter, direct subsequent searches for drivers to that slave drive from which it first obtained them even though the slave drive might have been removed from the home computer
and,
2) I could end up installing the OS into the borrowed computer’s hard drive if the jumpering and connections of the 2 hard drives were incorrect.
After setting up the master-slave hard drive connections (as I understand them), but prior to beginning the Win98SE installation, isn’t it possible to “test” out that the jumpering and connections were correct by the following methods:
Question 1.
While in Safe mode and prior to installing the OS, is it proof that the proper master-slave jumpering and connection setup was present, to show that the drive letter assignments of the partitions of my home computer hard drive (the master) remained as they had been – C:, D:, and E: - and a new letter - F: - was assigned for the borrowed computer hard drive ( the slave)?
Question 2.
If, instead of looking at that information in Safe mode, couldn’t I, instead, boot to a DOS environment using the Startup boot floppy and check for the same drive letter assignments as proof of the proper connections?
Question 3.
As an additional check whether the proper master-slave setup had been established wouldn’t confirming information be that the master and slave hard drives would each have their own unique contents?
Question 4.
Since I have never worked with dual hard drives on a computer before, is there any other information that identifies which computer is the master and which is the slave as, for example, some BIOS checking process?
Question 5.
Is it true that if I avoid using the slave drive as a source for drivers or any other files, then removing the slave drive should have no effects after the slave drive is removed from the computer?
Question 6.
Are there other OS activities interacting with the slave drive that are recorded in the registry that would be disturbed by removal of the slave drive?
Question 7.
Since the slave drive will eventually be removed from my computer, would there be any need to remove its registry traces from the registry by, possibly, using a registry cleaner program?
Question 8.
In order to avoid using the slave drive as the source of drivers why couldn’t I, while in Safe mode or in the DOS environment of a startup boot floppy, copy the drivers and my other files that are on the slave drive to the D: drive of the master drive which would serve, naturally, as the source for the needed drivers?
Question 9.
Since I will eventually remove the slave drive from my system, if a proper copy of the necessary drivers on the slave drive (and all the other files accumulated while on the borrowed computer – 800MB of data) had been able to be copied to the master hard drive, would it be better to remove the slave hard drive from my system prior to the installation of Win98SE?
Question 10.
Since I have no currently functional facilities for backing up the data on my home computer nor on the borrowed computer, would it be useful to back up some of the home computer’s hard drive data to the slave drive or do I even have to worry about this?
Question 11.
If this copying from the slave drive to the master drive prior to the installation of the OS were done in the DOS environment (if that is even possible), when the files had been changed from, as an example,
ImagineXtrue.dll and ImagineXfalse.dll
to
Imagin~1.dll and Imagin~2.dll,
how would they appear when returning to the Windows environment?
Thank you.
Bob
Well, to be realistic, not quite “fully” answered. But, thank you. You did answer my questions to the limit of my knowledge but I didn’t know enough to ask all the questions that were needed but I believe the answers to these last few ought to finish the lot off before I take the plunge.
You mentioned some potential problems that might arise from the master-slave setup:
1) If the source of needed drivers is the slave drive then the newly forming registry will, thereafter, direct subsequent searches for drivers to that slave drive from which it first obtained them even though the slave drive might have been removed from the home computer
and,
2) I could end up installing the OS into the borrowed computer’s hard drive if the jumpering and connections of the 2 hard drives were incorrect.
After setting up the master-slave hard drive connections (as I understand them), but prior to beginning the Win98SE installation, isn’t it possible to “test” out that the jumpering and connections were correct by the following methods:
Question 1.
While in Safe mode and prior to installing the OS, is it proof that the proper master-slave jumpering and connection setup was present, to show that the drive letter assignments of the partitions of my home computer hard drive (the master) remained as they had been – C:, D:, and E: - and a new letter - F: - was assigned for the borrowed computer hard drive ( the slave)?
Question 2.
If, instead of looking at that information in Safe mode, couldn’t I, instead, boot to a DOS environment using the Startup boot floppy and check for the same drive letter assignments as proof of the proper connections?
Question 3.
As an additional check whether the proper master-slave setup had been established wouldn’t confirming information be that the master and slave hard drives would each have their own unique contents?
Question 4.
Since I have never worked with dual hard drives on a computer before, is there any other information that identifies which computer is the master and which is the slave as, for example, some BIOS checking process?
Question 5.
Is it true that if I avoid using the slave drive as a source for drivers or any other files, then removing the slave drive should have no effects after the slave drive is removed from the computer?
Question 6.
Are there other OS activities interacting with the slave drive that are recorded in the registry that would be disturbed by removal of the slave drive?
Question 7.
Since the slave drive will eventually be removed from my computer, would there be any need to remove its registry traces from the registry by, possibly, using a registry cleaner program?
Question 8.
In order to avoid using the slave drive as the source of drivers why couldn’t I, while in Safe mode or in the DOS environment of a startup boot floppy, copy the drivers and my other files that are on the slave drive to the D: drive of the master drive which would serve, naturally, as the source for the needed drivers?
Question 9.
Since I will eventually remove the slave drive from my system, if a proper copy of the necessary drivers on the slave drive (and all the other files accumulated while on the borrowed computer – 800MB of data) had been able to be copied to the master hard drive, would it be better to remove the slave hard drive from my system prior to the installation of Win98SE?
Question 10.
Since I have no currently functional facilities for backing up the data on my home computer nor on the borrowed computer, would it be useful to back up some of the home computer’s hard drive data to the slave drive or do I even have to worry about this?
Question 11.
If this copying from the slave drive to the master drive prior to the installation of the OS were done in the DOS environment (if that is even possible), when the files had been changed from, as an example,
ImagineXtrue.dll and ImagineXfalse.dll
to
Imagin~1.dll and Imagin~2.dll,
how would they appear when returning to the Windows environment?
Thank you.
Bob
ASKER
Hello Bill,
I hope I can still get in under the wire. I don't know how you are are going to take this because it seems to me like a never ending process but in preparation for the upcoming hard drive move I've been reading some descriptions of the process so that I don't get caught unaware of something I might need to know at 2AM.
Question 12.
Are there any precautions needed to ensure that the operating system can address the size of the available hard drives?
Question 13.
I hope this is properly phrased.
Will I have to do anything to configure the CMOS and BIOS for either the master or the slave drives to allow them to function properly?
Question 14.
Will the operating system on the C: drive of the borrowed computer's hard drive behave itself in the slave position?
Once again, thank you.
Bob
I hope I can still get in under the wire. I don't know how you are are going to take this because it seems to me like a never ending process but in preparation for the upcoming hard drive move I've been reading some descriptions of the process so that I don't get caught unaware of something I might need to know at 2AM.
Question 12.
Are there any precautions needed to ensure that the operating system can address the size of the available hard drives?
Question 13.
I hope this is properly phrased.
Will I have to do anything to configure the CMOS and BIOS for either the master or the slave drives to allow them to function properly?
Question 14.
Will the operating system on the C: drive of the borrowed computer's hard drive behave itself in the slave position?
Once again, thank you.
Bob
Hi Bob
Questions 1, 4 and 13 - Testing Master/Slave Configuration of Hard Drives
The easiest way to test things after connecting the hard drive from the borrowed computer is by BOTH of these methods, and this is what I would do before formatting the C: Drive and then reinstalling Windows to it:
CMOS Check
----------
1. Insert a Win98se boot floppy while the system is powered off.
2. Start the computer and press the key to enter the CMOS Setup almost as soon as it is powered on.
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm
The access key, according to the above link, is the DEL key.
3. It will start up on the "Main Screen". Arrow right to open the "Advanced" Screen (just like a dialog tab).
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm#advanced_screen
4. Arrow down to the "IDE Configuration" setting and press the Enter key
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm#ide_configuration_submenu
5. The "IDE Controller" setting should show "Both". If not, then press the + or - keys until it does.
6. Arrow down to "Primary IDE Master".
This should show the model number of your own hard drive, but may show as "Generic IDE Disk Type01".
Press the Enter Key and select "Auto" from the options.
7. Do the same (ie. set to "Auto") the other 3 drives namely:
Primary IDE Slave
Secondary IDE Master - should show as "TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-M1212" when detected.
Secondary IDE Slave - should show as "TDK CDRW241040B" when detected.
Note: Don't worry if the CD drives show as ATAPI or CDROM devices after setting to "Auto".
When you arrow down to, and press Enter to select the Primary IDE Master and Slave settings,
each of them should reflect the capacity of the hard drive fitted. This is the TOTAL
capacity of the drive and NOT any reflection on how it is partitioned.
Your system hard drive was split as follows:
C = 7.9 (3.3 free & 4.6 used)
D = 35.4 (11.7 free & 23.7 used)
E = 12.5 (5.7 free & 6.8 used)
That totals up to approximately 55GB (although I am sure that your Dell Dimension XPS T500
came as standard with a 22GB Drive), so, the CMOS Setup should report its total capacity
in MB as approximately 56,320MB.
I don't think you have said what capacity the borrowed PC's hard drive is, but convert the
capacity from GB to MB by multiplying by 1,024
http://www.onlineconversion.com/computer_base2.htm
8. Press ESC to get back to the Menu and arrow Right across to the "BOOT" Menu.
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm#boot_screen
9. Arrow down to "Removable Devices" and press Enter. Press the + or - keys to
Set it to "Legacy Floppy Drive"
10. Press ESC to get back to the Boot Screen
11. Arrow down to "Hard Drive" and press Enter. Set it to the entry that matches your own.
12. Press ESC to get back to the Boot Menu and arrow down to 1st Boot Device. Press Enter.
Make sure that each is properly set (see below) and press ESC to get back to the Boot Menu
after each change.
1st - Removable Devices (ie. your floppy)
2nd - ATAPI CD-Rom Drive
3rd - Hard Drive
4th - Network Boot or [None]
13. Finally press the F10 key (Exit and Save Changes). This will reboot the computer to the floppy.
You may find some of the info in one of my comments here useful:
My answer on IDE Device identification in the CMOS Setup:
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/21617425/Quick-Restored-Win98-on-Compaq-5900Z-Unable-to-find-drivers-for-DVDROM-and-CDRW.html#15309638
Check from DOS
--------------
After the boot floppy stops at the A:\> Prompt, you can check your hard drive designations using the command FDISK.
It will ask you if you wish to "Enable Large Hard Drive Support". Say YES and it will show a Menu.
At the top of the Menu you will see "Current fixed disk drive: 1". This indicates that the details you are about to ask for will relate to the hard drive that is set as the PRIMARY MASTER, ie. YOUR Hard Drive.
Choose Option 4 which should be "Display partition Information".
You will know you have your hard drive properly selected when it notifies you of the capacity, tells you that you have an extended partition containing "logical drives", and asks if you want to see the details.
Check the details, and you should see that they all match your C, D, and E Partitions.
Press ESC to get back to the main Menu again, and this time choose the option to "Change Current Fixed Disk Drive". This should show as option No. 5.
In the "Select Drive to make current" [ ] type in a 2 and press Enter.
If you aren't returned to the Main menu, press ESC to get there, and confirm that it says "Current fixed disk drive: 2".
Now "View Partition Information" (Option 4) for that drive.
This should show as F: and match the capacity.
With that confirmed, press ESC until you exit FDISK and are returned to the A:\> Prompt again.
You will have some idea of the folder names on each of the partitions of your OWN hard drive, and those on the borrowed computer's hard drive. It would be a good idea to take note of a uniquely named folder on each of the partitions on your hard drive and on the borrowed computer's hard drive, and verify the drive letters by asking DOS to list the folder names on each of the drives using the following commands:
DIR /on /ad /p C:
DIR /on /ad /p D:
DIR /on /ad /p E:
DIR /on /ad /p F:
DIR /on /p G: <---------- see notes below
DIR /on /ad /p H: <------ DVD-ROM Drive
DIR /on /ad /p I: <------ CD-RW Drive
The directory listings for the DVD and CD-RW drives are optional, but require that you chose "With CD-Rom Support" when booting to the floppy. If you didn't, then reboot to it and choose that option. Insert a CD-Rom Disc on which you know a couple of uniquely named folders.
The check for the folder listing of the G: Drive will actually be pointing to an area in memory and assigned as a "Virtual" Drive or "RamDrive". the boot floppy's program files have been unpacked into it, and there are no folders. The command has been modified to show the file names, and you will know you are listing the RamDrive when you see:
ASPI2DOS SYS 35,330 23/04/99 22:22 ASPI2DOS.SYS
ASPI4DOS SYS 14,386 23/04/99 22:22 ASPI4DOS.SYS
etc
DRVSPACE BIN 68,871 23/04/99 22:22 DRVSPACE.BIN
EBD CAB 272,206 23/04/99 22:22 EBD.CAB <-------- Unique file name
EGA CPI 58,870 23/04/99 22:22 EGA.CPI
EXTRACT EXE 93,242 23/04/99 22:22 EXTRACT.EXE
FDISK EXE 64,460 18/05/00 8:35 FDISK.EXE
With that confirmed, you can now confidently format the C: Drive and reinstall Windows to it.
--------------------------
Questions 5 to 7. - Removing the Slave Drive after use.
Once you have installed Windows to the C: Drive and allowed it to install the drivers from the slave drive as part of the Post-Setup hardware detection routine, you can safely power off and disconnect the slave drive without any worries. I suggest booting back into the CMOS Setup Screen and setting the Secondary Master IDE Device to NONE. It should be set to "Auto", and should therefore realise that there is now no drive fitted, but just confirm this and everything will be OK. Windows will then reassign drive letters properly as it boots.
I wouldn't worry about traces in the registry that point to the non-existent slave drive. The "Last Install Source" for the drivers will be stored as the F: Drive. After Windows reassigns the drive letters, this will be your DVD-Rom Drive. Reinstalling drivers may prompt for a CD as the source, but all you have to do is point it elsewhere and thereafter that source would be logged as the most recent install source. Not something to be unduly concerned about.
As long as you don't run any standalone programs directly from the slave drive while it is fitted, then all registry entries will be insignificant. For instance, let's say that you decided to run a Dioagnostics Program from a folder on the slave drive before removing it. This would normally write new registry entries logging your chosen user options, etc. If it created a desktop shortcut, then this would hunt for a non-existent program after the slave drive was removed. Running the same program from your system drive would overwrite the registry settings with the new details, so again this isn't anything to be concerned about.
--------------------------
Question 8, 9, and 11. - Copying Drive Files from Slave Drive to System Drive from DOS.
I agree that it would be a much better idea to have all the required files contained in one of the partitions of your system drive (eg. D or E) before setup commences, to avoid faffing around with a slave drive at all. Unfortunately DOS abbreviates file and folder names (or would just refuse to copy a file with a long name), and you would have no way of later restoring the original long file names. This name abbreviation could easily cause a driver installation to fail.
IF you can currently boot into SAFE MODE on your own computer after fitting the borrowed hard drive as slave and confirming that it was recognised, etc, then copying all the required content to one of your own hard drive's extra partitions in that mode WOULD certainly be a good idea. That way, you are self contained and you can return the slave drive to its own computer and proceed with the installation.
I have often done the following, which may be the most appropriate to your situation, but takes a bit longer:
1. Add the slave drive containing the folders and files I need
2. Install Win98se to my C: Drive, but don't bother personalising it or configuring it.
(you can usually ignore "unknown devices" etc because this is only a temporary setup)
3. Copy everything I need to a spare partition on my own system drive
4. Insert Win98se boot floppy
5. Turn the computer off, remove the slave drive, and boot to CMOS to ensure it detects drives accurately
6. Exit CMOS and allow boot to the floppy
7. Format the C: Drive and install Win98se again, but this time install all drivers and configure it for permanent use.
This exercise would be a useful run-through in advance of the "real thing", and would allow you to observe the steps performed as part of the setup. A quick basic installation, choosing the "Custom" option and leaving out all the optional components and non-essential drivers like sound card, network card, etc would take just over 30 minutes. The reformat would take about 15 minutes, and the full proper reinstall would take about 2 hours with all the driver installations and post-install configuration. You don't even have to install the graphics drivers for your temporary setup, because you could just leave it as the "safe mode" type 640 x 480 display and copy the files you need.
One thing you WOULD have to make sure of BEFORE copying files is that you have your "Folder Options" > "View" settings set so that you are seeing ALL FILES including system and hidden ones.
--------------------------
Question 10. - Backing up data from your drive to the slave drive before installing Windows.
Hmmm. It all depends on whether you have any contents on your drive that cannot be replaced or that you cannot restore from elsewhere. Quite a while back I gave details of how to back up your Favorites, Outlook Express folders, etc. If you haven't done that already, then that would be possible from Safe Mode while you were copying drivers from the Slave to your own hard drive's spare partition.
As far as installed programs go, then I assume that you have all the original install sources still available. It would be better to reinstall these freshly, but there may be the odd program fle that you downloaded from the Internet which might no longer be available. Copying the installer package for these things to the Slave Drive as well as to one of your spare partitions would give you double security, but your spare partitions should not be affected in any way during Windows setup.
--------------------------
Question 12. - Drive capacity limitations for the slave drive.
The actual Win98se Operating System can handle massive hard drives well beyond what is currently available. Limitations are imposed by the version of the instructions embedded in the BIOS Chip on your motherboard.
This is a useful (although quite complex) explanation of common barriers that affected older computers:
http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/hard_drives/hard_drive_size_barriers.htm
None of these limitations should affect you, BUT it would be a good idea for you to tell me the actual capacity of the hard drive on the borrowed computer - just to make sure.
One thing that MIGHT make a difference is the version of FDISK on the boot floppy. There is an updated version of Win98se's FDISK.EXE that addresses issues where drive capacities in excess of 63 GB are reported as the real capacity MINUS 63 GB. So, if the borrowed computer's hard drive was 80 GB, then the old FDISK version would report it as 80 - 63 = 17 GB (17,408MB).
As you will not actually be USING FDISK to remove or create any partitions, as long as you recognise this you should be in the position to realise what has happened if you see wrong capacities being reported.
There has been an acknowledged froblem with some versions of FORMAT.COM whereby they cannot properly format a drive larger than 32GB. Again, this is of no real concern, because you are only going to format your C: Drive which is about 8GB.
If you want to get the updated FDISK.EXE onto your Win98se boot floppy, then I can certainly zip up the file and email it to you so that you can copy it to the floppy and have it replace the existing version. Either that, or download the installer package:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/Win98/Update/8266R/W98/EN-US/263044USA8.EXE
Unpack it to its own folder using WinRAR, and rename the file "fdisk.98s" to "fdisk.exe".
That's the new FDISK.EXE to copy to the boot floppy.
--------------------------
Question 14.
Will the operating system on the C: drive of the borrowed computer's hard drive behave itself in the slave position?
There's no reason for it not to, but tell me the capacity of it (Right-Click > Properties on the C: Drive in My Computer) and I will try to make absolutely certain for you.
Bill
Questions 1, 4 and 13 - Testing Master/Slave Configuration of Hard Drives
The easiest way to test things after connecting the hard drive from the borrowed computer is by BOTH of these methods, and this is what I would do before formatting the C: Drive and then reinstalling Windows to it:
CMOS Check
----------
1. Insert a Win98se boot floppy while the system is powered off.
2. Start the computer and press the key to enter the CMOS Setup almost as soon as it is powered on.
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm
The access key, according to the above link, is the DEL key.
3. It will start up on the "Main Screen". Arrow right to open the "Advanced" Screen (just like a dialog tab).
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm#advanced_screen
4. Arrow down to the "IDE Configuration" setting and press the Enter key
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm#ide_configuration_submenu
5. The "IDE Controller" setting should show "Both". If not, then press the + or - keys until it does.
6. Arrow down to "Primary IDE Master".
This should show the model number of your own hard drive, but may show as "Generic IDE Disk Type01".
Press the Enter Key and select "Auto" from the options.
7. Do the same (ie. set to "Auto") the other 3 drives namely:
Primary IDE Slave
Secondary IDE Master - should show as "TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-M1212" when detected.
Secondary IDE Slave - should show as "TDK CDRW241040B" when detected.
Note: Don't worry if the CD drives show as ATAPI or CDROM devices after setting to "Auto".
When you arrow down to, and press Enter to select the Primary IDE Master and Slave settings,
each of them should reflect the capacity of the hard drive fitted. This is the TOTAL
capacity of the drive and NOT any reflection on how it is partitioned.
Your system hard drive was split as follows:
C = 7.9 (3.3 free & 4.6 used)
D = 35.4 (11.7 free & 23.7 used)
E = 12.5 (5.7 free & 6.8 used)
That totals up to approximately 55GB (although I am sure that your Dell Dimension XPS T500
came as standard with a 22GB Drive), so, the CMOS Setup should report its total capacity
in MB as approximately 56,320MB.
I don't think you have said what capacity the borrowed PC's hard drive is, but convert the
capacity from GB to MB by multiplying by 1,024
http://www.onlineconversion.com/computer_base2.htm
8. Press ESC to get back to the Menu and arrow Right across to the "BOOT" Menu.
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dkub/syssetup.htm#boot_screen
9. Arrow down to "Removable Devices" and press Enter. Press the + or - keys to
Set it to "Legacy Floppy Drive"
10. Press ESC to get back to the Boot Screen
11. Arrow down to "Hard Drive" and press Enter. Set it to the entry that matches your own.
12. Press ESC to get back to the Boot Menu and arrow down to 1st Boot Device. Press Enter.
Make sure that each is properly set (see below) and press ESC to get back to the Boot Menu
after each change.
1st - Removable Devices (ie. your floppy)
2nd - ATAPI CD-Rom Drive
3rd - Hard Drive
4th - Network Boot or [None]
13. Finally press the F10 key (Exit and Save Changes). This will reboot the computer to the floppy.
You may find some of the info in one of my comments here useful:
My answer on IDE Device identification in the CMOS Setup:
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/21617425/Quick-Restored-Win98-on-Compaq-5900Z-Unable-to-find-drivers-for-DVDROM-and-CDRW.html#15309638
Check from DOS
--------------
After the boot floppy stops at the A:\> Prompt, you can check your hard drive designations using the command FDISK.
It will ask you if you wish to "Enable Large Hard Drive Support". Say YES and it will show a Menu.
At the top of the Menu you will see "Current fixed disk drive: 1". This indicates that the details you are about to ask for will relate to the hard drive that is set as the PRIMARY MASTER, ie. YOUR Hard Drive.
Choose Option 4 which should be "Display partition Information".
You will know you have your hard drive properly selected when it notifies you of the capacity, tells you that you have an extended partition containing "logical drives", and asks if you want to see the details.
Check the details, and you should see that they all match your C, D, and E Partitions.
Press ESC to get back to the main Menu again, and this time choose the option to "Change Current Fixed Disk Drive". This should show as option No. 5.
In the "Select Drive to make current" [ ] type in a 2 and press Enter.
If you aren't returned to the Main menu, press ESC to get there, and confirm that it says "Current fixed disk drive: 2".
Now "View Partition Information" (Option 4) for that drive.
This should show as F: and match the capacity.
With that confirmed, press ESC until you exit FDISK and are returned to the A:\> Prompt again.
You will have some idea of the folder names on each of the partitions of your OWN hard drive, and those on the borrowed computer's hard drive. It would be a good idea to take note of a uniquely named folder on each of the partitions on your hard drive and on the borrowed computer's hard drive, and verify the drive letters by asking DOS to list the folder names on each of the drives using the following commands:
DIR /on /ad /p C:
DIR /on /ad /p D:
DIR /on /ad /p E:
DIR /on /ad /p F:
DIR /on /p G: <---------- see notes below
DIR /on /ad /p H: <------ DVD-ROM Drive
DIR /on /ad /p I: <------ CD-RW Drive
The directory listings for the DVD and CD-RW drives are optional, but require that you chose "With CD-Rom Support" when booting to the floppy. If you didn't, then reboot to it and choose that option. Insert a CD-Rom Disc on which you know a couple of uniquely named folders.
The check for the folder listing of the G: Drive will actually be pointing to an area in memory and assigned as a "Virtual" Drive or "RamDrive". the boot floppy's program files have been unpacked into it, and there are no folders. The command has been modified to show the file names, and you will know you are listing the RamDrive when you see:
ASPI2DOS SYS 35,330 23/04/99 22:22 ASPI2DOS.SYS
ASPI4DOS SYS 14,386 23/04/99 22:22 ASPI4DOS.SYS
etc
DRVSPACE BIN 68,871 23/04/99 22:22 DRVSPACE.BIN
EBD CAB 272,206 23/04/99 22:22 EBD.CAB <-------- Unique file name
EGA CPI 58,870 23/04/99 22:22 EGA.CPI
EXTRACT EXE 93,242 23/04/99 22:22 EXTRACT.EXE
FDISK EXE 64,460 18/05/00 8:35 FDISK.EXE
With that confirmed, you can now confidently format the C: Drive and reinstall Windows to it.
--------------------------
Questions 5 to 7. - Removing the Slave Drive after use.
Once you have installed Windows to the C: Drive and allowed it to install the drivers from the slave drive as part of the Post-Setup hardware detection routine, you can safely power off and disconnect the slave drive without any worries. I suggest booting back into the CMOS Setup Screen and setting the Secondary Master IDE Device to NONE. It should be set to "Auto", and should therefore realise that there is now no drive fitted, but just confirm this and everything will be OK. Windows will then reassign drive letters properly as it boots.
I wouldn't worry about traces in the registry that point to the non-existent slave drive. The "Last Install Source" for the drivers will be stored as the F: Drive. After Windows reassigns the drive letters, this will be your DVD-Rom Drive. Reinstalling drivers may prompt for a CD as the source, but all you have to do is point it elsewhere and thereafter that source would be logged as the most recent install source. Not something to be unduly concerned about.
As long as you don't run any standalone programs directly from the slave drive while it is fitted, then all registry entries will be insignificant. For instance, let's say that you decided to run a Dioagnostics Program from a folder on the slave drive before removing it. This would normally write new registry entries logging your chosen user options, etc. If it created a desktop shortcut, then this would hunt for a non-existent program after the slave drive was removed. Running the same program from your system drive would overwrite the registry settings with the new details, so again this isn't anything to be concerned about.
--------------------------
Question 8, 9, and 11. - Copying Drive Files from Slave Drive to System Drive from DOS.
I agree that it would be a much better idea to have all the required files contained in one of the partitions of your system drive (eg. D or E) before setup commences, to avoid faffing around with a slave drive at all. Unfortunately DOS abbreviates file and folder names (or would just refuse to copy a file with a long name), and you would have no way of later restoring the original long file names. This name abbreviation could easily cause a driver installation to fail.
IF you can currently boot into SAFE MODE on your own computer after fitting the borrowed hard drive as slave and confirming that it was recognised, etc, then copying all the required content to one of your own hard drive's extra partitions in that mode WOULD certainly be a good idea. That way, you are self contained and you can return the slave drive to its own computer and proceed with the installation.
I have often done the following, which may be the most appropriate to your situation, but takes a bit longer:
1. Add the slave drive containing the folders and files I need
2. Install Win98se to my C: Drive, but don't bother personalising it or configuring it.
(you can usually ignore "unknown devices" etc because this is only a temporary setup)
3. Copy everything I need to a spare partition on my own system drive
4. Insert Win98se boot floppy
5. Turn the computer off, remove the slave drive, and boot to CMOS to ensure it detects drives accurately
6. Exit CMOS and allow boot to the floppy
7. Format the C: Drive and install Win98se again, but this time install all drivers and configure it for permanent use.
This exercise would be a useful run-through in advance of the "real thing", and would allow you to observe the steps performed as part of the setup. A quick basic installation, choosing the "Custom" option and leaving out all the optional components and non-essential drivers like sound card, network card, etc would take just over 30 minutes. The reformat would take about 15 minutes, and the full proper reinstall would take about 2 hours with all the driver installations and post-install configuration. You don't even have to install the graphics drivers for your temporary setup, because you could just leave it as the "safe mode" type 640 x 480 display and copy the files you need.
One thing you WOULD have to make sure of BEFORE copying files is that you have your "Folder Options" > "View" settings set so that you are seeing ALL FILES including system and hidden ones.
--------------------------
Question 10. - Backing up data from your drive to the slave drive before installing Windows.
Hmmm. It all depends on whether you have any contents on your drive that cannot be replaced or that you cannot restore from elsewhere. Quite a while back I gave details of how to back up your Favorites, Outlook Express folders, etc. If you haven't done that already, then that would be possible from Safe Mode while you were copying drivers from the Slave to your own hard drive's spare partition.
As far as installed programs go, then I assume that you have all the original install sources still available. It would be better to reinstall these freshly, but there may be the odd program fle that you downloaded from the Internet which might no longer be available. Copying the installer package for these things to the Slave Drive as well as to one of your spare partitions would give you double security, but your spare partitions should not be affected in any way during Windows setup.
--------------------------
Question 12. - Drive capacity limitations for the slave drive.
The actual Win98se Operating System can handle massive hard drives well beyond what is currently available. Limitations are imposed by the version of the instructions embedded in the BIOS Chip on your motherboard.
This is a useful (although quite complex) explanation of common barriers that affected older computers:
http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/hard_drives/hard_drive_size_barriers.htm
None of these limitations should affect you, BUT it would be a good idea for you to tell me the actual capacity of the hard drive on the borrowed computer - just to make sure.
One thing that MIGHT make a difference is the version of FDISK on the boot floppy. There is an updated version of Win98se's FDISK.EXE that addresses issues where drive capacities in excess of 63 GB are reported as the real capacity MINUS 63 GB. So, if the borrowed computer's hard drive was 80 GB, then the old FDISK version would report it as 80 - 63 = 17 GB (17,408MB).
As you will not actually be USING FDISK to remove or create any partitions, as long as you recognise this you should be in the position to realise what has happened if you see wrong capacities being reported.
There has been an acknowledged froblem with some versions of FORMAT.COM whereby they cannot properly format a drive larger than 32GB. Again, this is of no real concern, because you are only going to format your C: Drive which is about 8GB.
If you want to get the updated FDISK.EXE onto your Win98se boot floppy, then I can certainly zip up the file and email it to you so that you can copy it to the floppy and have it replace the existing version. Either that, or download the installer package:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/Win98/Update/8266R/W98/EN-US/263044USA8.EXE
Unpack it to its own folder using WinRAR, and rename the file "fdisk.98s" to "fdisk.exe".
That's the new FDISK.EXE to copy to the boot floppy.
--------------------------
Question 14.
Will the operating system on the C: drive of the borrowed computer's hard drive behave itself in the slave position?
There's no reason for it not to, but tell me the capacity of it (Right-Click > Properties on the C: Drive in My Computer) and I will try to make absolutely certain for you.
Bill
Hello BillDL have you considered exchanging emails with rsuess1 , this post is becoming too large.
Regards Merete
Regards Merete
Hi Merete
I've been emailing Word documents as printable transcripts of each posting, but I've stuck to the membership agreement by posting details of all off-site exchanges of information here. I don't think any other experts who previously contributed will still take the time to read this question when they receive email notifications, but those are the rules :-)
Yes, I agree that the question is now VERY large, but I feel that this will most likely be the last of comments that require lengthy answers. Obviously if Bob still needs to ask further questions, then he is at liberty to do so, but any questions from now on will probably be very short as I am confident that just about everything that needs to be known and considered has been covered to date.
Bill
I've been emailing Word documents as printable transcripts of each posting, but I've stuck to the membership agreement by posting details of all off-site exchanges of information here. I don't think any other experts who previously contributed will still take the time to read this question when they receive email notifications, but those are the rules :-)
Yes, I agree that the question is now VERY large, but I feel that this will most likely be the last of comments that require lengthy answers. Obviously if Bob still needs to ask further questions, then he is at liberty to do so, but any questions from now on will probably be very short as I am confident that just about everything that needs to be known and considered has been covered to date.
Bill
its just I catch myself wanting to see the responses but even with my dsl it takes a while to open now, funny how some pages
can be big but load quick this one however is very slow to load now.
Even as I type this and submit it will take ages to turn the page.
I also appreciate the great effort and assistance your providing rsuess1, please feel your comments are applauded and not in anyway dis-approved.
Best wishes Merete
can be big but load quick this one however is very slow to load now.
Even as I type this and submit it will take ages to turn the page.
I also appreciate the great effort and assistance your providing rsuess1, please feel your comments are applauded and not in anyway dis-approved.
Best wishes Merete
ASKER
Hello Bill,
I didn’t mention it before but I removed the original hard drive that came with my computer when it became malfunctional (was making odd noises and later wouldn’t spin as I recall) and replaced it with its current 60 GB hard drive (I presume the missing 5 GB are overhead?) You had also asked me what the size of the hard drive on the borrowed computer was. This is Used space = 4.74 GB, Free space = 12.0 GB or Total space – 16.7 GB.
Prior to my first contact with you my DVD-ROM drive had been making harsh noises and wouldn’t read CDs so I just stopped using it (and did no troubleshooting on it) and relied on the TDK drive thereafter with no evidence of malfunction but I’m not sure whether the system would have been able to boot from the TDK drive, so I have a question regarding your instructions for the IDE Controller and Boot device settings:
Question 1.
Will the fact that the DVD-ROM (Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1212) is malfunctional cause your instructions for the IDE Controller and Boot Device settings of the other drives:
Primary IDE Slave
Secondary IDE Master – should show as Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1212
Secondary IDE Slave – should show as TDK CDRW241040B
to change. or should I leave their settings as I find them and adhere to your instructions?
Question 2.
Is it possible that the malfunctional Toshiba and the functional TDK drives would default to whatever drive is functional no matter whether assigned as master or slave?
Question 3.
In the Boot menu of the CMOS settings will the setting of 2nd - ATAPI CD-Rom automatically defer to the functional TDK drive if the DVD-ROM drive is malfunctional?
Just for emphasis since you didn’t specifically mention it:
Question 3.
Am I correct that nothing needs to be done regarding any BIOS settings?
Question 4.
Are there any parameters that need to be used along with the FDISK command at an A:\> prompt for it to ask me “Enable large hard drive support?”
I did as you suggested and unzipped ‘Latest_Questions_Addresse
and found the fdisk.exe file dated 5-18-00 that I replaced the existing version with on the Startup floppy. Just for my information, however, I would appreciate an explanation of your alternate suggestion quoted below:
I believe I was confused and actually executed the 263044USA8.exe file and it installed the Windows 98 Q263044 update that among other things did seem to update the fdisk.exe program dated 5-19-00.
Question 5.
Was any harm done by updating the whole thing?
Thank you.
Bob
I didn’t mention it before but I removed the original hard drive that came with my computer when it became malfunctional (was making odd noises and later wouldn’t spin as I recall) and replaced it with its current 60 GB hard drive (I presume the missing 5 GB are overhead?) You had also asked me what the size of the hard drive on the borrowed computer was. This is Used space = 4.74 GB, Free space = 12.0 GB or Total space – 16.7 GB.
Prior to my first contact with you my DVD-ROM drive had been making harsh noises and wouldn’t read CDs so I just stopped using it (and did no troubleshooting on it) and relied on the TDK drive thereafter with no evidence of malfunction but I’m not sure whether the system would have been able to boot from the TDK drive, so I have a question regarding your instructions for the IDE Controller and Boot device settings:
Question 1.
Will the fact that the DVD-ROM (Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1212) is malfunctional cause your instructions for the IDE Controller and Boot Device settings of the other drives:
Primary IDE Slave
Secondary IDE Master – should show as Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1212
Secondary IDE Slave – should show as TDK CDRW241040B
to change. or should I leave their settings as I find them and adhere to your instructions?
Question 2.
Is it possible that the malfunctional Toshiba and the functional TDK drives would default to whatever drive is functional no matter whether assigned as master or slave?
Question 3.
In the Boot menu of the CMOS settings will the setting of 2nd - ATAPI CD-Rom automatically defer to the functional TDK drive if the DVD-ROM drive is malfunctional?
Just for emphasis since you didn’t specifically mention it:
Question 3.
Am I correct that nothing needs to be done regarding any BIOS settings?
Question 4.
Are there any parameters that need to be used along with the FDISK command at an A:\> prompt for it to ask me “Enable large hard drive support?”
I did as you suggested and unzipped ‘Latest_Questions_Addresse
and found the fdisk.exe file dated 5-18-00 that I replaced the existing version with on the Startup floppy. Just for my information, however, I would appreciate an explanation of your alternate suggestion quoted below:
I believe I was confused and actually executed the 263044USA8.exe file and it installed the Windows 98 Q263044 update that among other things did seem to update the fdisk.exe program dated 5-19-00.
Question 5.
Was any harm done by updating the whole thing?
Thank you.
Bob
Hi Bob
Yep, that explains the apparent drive capacity anomaly, so that's fine. The FDISK Update isn't really essential for either of the hard drives' capacities, but updating it is good practice anyway. It is only pertinent to hard drives of 63GB+ , but installing the update from the .exe file on a Win98 machine then allows you to create new boot floppies from within Windows which will have the updated fdisk.exe version on them. Handy to have a few of them available for any future problems. (No harm done - Question 5 answered).
The "Enable Large Drive Support" prompt is just shown because a drive in excess of 512 MB (really small and old-hat by todays standards) was detected. If you chose NO to this prompt, then the drive would only allow you to later format it as FAT16 (used for DOS, Windows 3.x, and old Windows NT). You MUST ALWAYS choose Large Drive Support so that you can later format the drive as FAT32 as required by Win98/98se, otherwise you end up with the common scenario where a person asks the question why his drive only shows a small proportion of its real capacity.
Fdisk.exe CAN be used with command line switches, but there's no real sense in doing so when it offers a menu of options. It is also the safer option, because mistyping a command could do some real harm. There ARE a couple of switches that are not available from the menu, and the only ones that you may ever need to use are:
FDISK /MBR (recreates the Master Boot Record)
FDISK /STATUS (same as menu option "View partition Information" but as a quick report on all drives/partitions).
http://www.computerhope.com/fdiskhlp.htm
Just stick to the menu options, and that way you just press ESC to exit from a sub-menu back to the main menu again. A good simulation of the screens here:
http://www.computerhope.com/sfdisk1.htm
OK, so the Toshiba DVD-Rom Drive is currently set as Secondary Master, and the TDK CD-RW Drive is set as Secondary Slave, but you cannot be sure that the DVD-Rom is fully functional. The following will answer your questions 2 and 3.
No, the CMOS Setup reports what it has found through the way the drives are jumpered and connected to the ribbon cables. To have the fully functional CD-RW detected and used as the Secondary Master, and the problem DVD-Rom Drive dropped down to Secondary Slave, you would have to change the jumpers and ribbon cable connectors around. I reckon this would be a good idea, given the erratic behaviour of the DVD-Rom Drive.
Easiest way around this, now that you are confident navigating in the CMOS Setup Screen, is to set your CD-RW (TDK Cyclone CDRW241040B) as the MASTER and the DVD-Rom (Toshiba SDM-1212) as the SLAVE (or optionally just leave it out of the system for now). For long-term use as the main CD reading Drive you shouldn't really use a CD-RW as the parts tend to be more delicate, but for these purposes it will be perfectly OK.
CD-RW drives are really just the same as CD-Rom (includes DVD-Rom) Drives in that they are both ATAPI devices, and don't need any special drivers other than what Windows 98 provides and what a boot floppy loads. The generic DOS CD-Rom Drivers on a Win98se boot floppy should be able to allow access to the TDK CD-RW drive to install Windows from CD.
Get a small torch and a pair of woman's eyebrow tweezers or very fine needlenose/longnose pliers.
The torch is essential if you are working with the drives still in place within the case. The pliers/tweezers are optional, depending on how easily you can reach carefully into the inside of the case and remove and reposition the plastic jumper caps on the back of the DVD-Rom and CD-RW drives. You've got to be careful not to bend any of the jumper pins when removing and repositioning a jumper cap, so you don't want to start levering the jumper caps off with a screwdriver. My fingers are too thick to catch the rim of jumper caps like this http://www.fonerbooks.com/replace/burner_3.jpg, so I use tweezers (http://z.about.com/d/peripherals/1/5/6/cd3.png).
You can buy small packets of 10 or 20 plastic jumper caps with a "tail" on them that makes it much easier to grip to remove and fit to the pins, and it may be a good time to replace the existing ones with these.
The jumper settings for the TDK Cyclone CDRW241040B Drive are shown on pages 7 and of this manual:
http://www.tdk.com.sg/support/download/manual/cyclone241040.pdf
ie. Jumper cap over the two pins closest to the connector for the ribbon cable = Master, Middle two pins = Slave, furthest from ribbon cable connector = Cable Select.
You should be able to see these pin settings stamped onto the back of the drive close to the jumper pins like this:
http://global.aopen.com.tw/tech/rma/optical/cdrom/images/detect1.gif
The jumpers for your Toshiba DVD-Rom SDM-1212 Drive are shown here:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/storage/0170E/
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/storage/0170E/Jumpers.htm
They are the same as for the CD-RW Drive
Just pay VERY close attention to the pins in the IDE ribbon cable connectors of both drives (shown in yellow in the image on the above page), and note carefully whether the missing pin is at the top or bottom. That's the reason for the torch. Just make sure you line up the ribbon cable connector so that the blanked-off hole lines up with the missing pin, or match up the lug on the connector with the gap in the socket's surround.
So, what you want to do here is:
1. Change the jumpers to make the CD-RW Master and the DVD-Rom Slave
2. Swap the order of the ribbon cable connectors (end to CD-RW and middle to DVD-Rom)
OR
2. Remove end ribbon cable connector from DVD-Rom and connect to CD-RW
3. Insert Win98se boot floppy
4. Boot into CMOS Setup Screen and make sure that new order of Secondary Master/Slave is set properly.
(If not, then set to Auto or choose option to Autodetect drives)
5. Choose "Exit and Save Changes" option and allow to boot to boot floppy
6. Verify that CD-RW Drive is accessible and is now the drive immediately after the "RamDrive" created by the boot floppy and assigned the next drive letter after the last hard drive partition.
So, in direct answer to your Question 3 above - no changes would be required in the CMOS Setup Screen as long as you left the drives as they are. If swapping the two ATAPI Drives around so that you know you have a reliable CD Drive to install from, you WOULD have to (a) change jumpers and cable connections AND (b) check that the CMOS Setup identified this changed Master/Slave configuration.
That would be you ready to install from the CD-RW instead of the DVD-Rom, but essentially you are still installing from what will be the same drive letter.
Yep, that explains the apparent drive capacity anomaly, so that's fine. The FDISK Update isn't really essential for either of the hard drives' capacities, but updating it is good practice anyway. It is only pertinent to hard drives of 63GB+ , but installing the update from the .exe file on a Win98 machine then allows you to create new boot floppies from within Windows which will have the updated fdisk.exe version on them. Handy to have a few of them available for any future problems. (No harm done - Question 5 answered).
The "Enable Large Drive Support" prompt is just shown because a drive in excess of 512 MB (really small and old-hat by todays standards) was detected. If you chose NO to this prompt, then the drive would only allow you to later format it as FAT16 (used for DOS, Windows 3.x, and old Windows NT). You MUST ALWAYS choose Large Drive Support so that you can later format the drive as FAT32 as required by Win98/98se, otherwise you end up with the common scenario where a person asks the question why his drive only shows a small proportion of its real capacity.
Fdisk.exe CAN be used with command line switches, but there's no real sense in doing so when it offers a menu of options. It is also the safer option, because mistyping a command could do some real harm. There ARE a couple of switches that are not available from the menu, and the only ones that you may ever need to use are:
FDISK /MBR (recreates the Master Boot Record)
FDISK /STATUS (same as menu option "View partition Information" but as a quick report on all drives/partitions).
http://www.computerhope.com/fdiskhlp.htm
Just stick to the menu options, and that way you just press ESC to exit from a sub-menu back to the main menu again. A good simulation of the screens here:
http://www.computerhope.com/sfdisk1.htm
OK, so the Toshiba DVD-Rom Drive is currently set as Secondary Master, and the TDK CD-RW Drive is set as Secondary Slave, but you cannot be sure that the DVD-Rom is fully functional. The following will answer your questions 2 and 3.
No, the CMOS Setup reports what it has found through the way the drives are jumpered and connected to the ribbon cables. To have the fully functional CD-RW detected and used as the Secondary Master, and the problem DVD-Rom Drive dropped down to Secondary Slave, you would have to change the jumpers and ribbon cable connectors around. I reckon this would be a good idea, given the erratic behaviour of the DVD-Rom Drive.
Easiest way around this, now that you are confident navigating in the CMOS Setup Screen, is to set your CD-RW (TDK Cyclone CDRW241040B) as the MASTER and the DVD-Rom (Toshiba SDM-1212) as the SLAVE (or optionally just leave it out of the system for now). For long-term use as the main CD reading Drive you shouldn't really use a CD-RW as the parts tend to be more delicate, but for these purposes it will be perfectly OK.
CD-RW drives are really just the same as CD-Rom (includes DVD-Rom) Drives in that they are both ATAPI devices, and don't need any special drivers other than what Windows 98 provides and what a boot floppy loads. The generic DOS CD-Rom Drivers on a Win98se boot floppy should be able to allow access to the TDK CD-RW drive to install Windows from CD.
Get a small torch and a pair of woman's eyebrow tweezers or very fine needlenose/longnose pliers.
The torch is essential if you are working with the drives still in place within the case. The pliers/tweezers are optional, depending on how easily you can reach carefully into the inside of the case and remove and reposition the plastic jumper caps on the back of the DVD-Rom and CD-RW drives. You've got to be careful not to bend any of the jumper pins when removing and repositioning a jumper cap, so you don't want to start levering the jumper caps off with a screwdriver. My fingers are too thick to catch the rim of jumper caps like this http://www.fonerbooks.com/replace/burner_3.jpg, so I use tweezers (http://z.about.com/d/peripherals/1/5/6/cd3.png).
You can buy small packets of 10 or 20 plastic jumper caps with a "tail" on them that makes it much easier to grip to remove and fit to the pins, and it may be a good time to replace the existing ones with these.
The jumper settings for the TDK Cyclone CDRW241040B Drive are shown on pages 7 and of this manual:
http://www.tdk.com.sg/support/download/manual/cyclone241040.pdf
ie. Jumper cap over the two pins closest to the connector for the ribbon cable = Master, Middle two pins = Slave, furthest from ribbon cable connector = Cable Select.
You should be able to see these pin settings stamped onto the back of the drive close to the jumper pins like this:
http://global.aopen.com.tw/tech/rma/optical/cdrom/images/detect1.gif
The jumpers for your Toshiba DVD-Rom SDM-1212 Drive are shown here:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/storage/0170E/
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/storage/0170E/Jumpers.htm
They are the same as for the CD-RW Drive
Just pay VERY close attention to the pins in the IDE ribbon cable connectors of both drives (shown in yellow in the image on the above page), and note carefully whether the missing pin is at the top or bottom. That's the reason for the torch. Just make sure you line up the ribbon cable connector so that the blanked-off hole lines up with the missing pin, or match up the lug on the connector with the gap in the socket's surround.
So, what you want to do here is:
1. Change the jumpers to make the CD-RW Master and the DVD-Rom Slave
2. Swap the order of the ribbon cable connectors (end to CD-RW and middle to DVD-Rom)
OR
2. Remove end ribbon cable connector from DVD-Rom and connect to CD-RW
3. Insert Win98se boot floppy
4. Boot into CMOS Setup Screen and make sure that new order of Secondary Master/Slave is set properly.
(If not, then set to Auto or choose option to Autodetect drives)
5. Choose "Exit and Save Changes" option and allow to boot to boot floppy
6. Verify that CD-RW Drive is accessible and is now the drive immediately after the "RamDrive" created by the boot floppy and assigned the next drive letter after the last hard drive partition.
So, in direct answer to your Question 3 above - no changes would be required in the CMOS Setup Screen as long as you left the drives as they are. If swapping the two ATAPI Drives around so that you know you have a reliable CD Drive to install from, you WOULD have to (a) change jumpers and cable connections AND (b) check that the CMOS Setup identified this changed Master/Slave configuration.
That would be you ready to install from the CD-RW instead of the DVD-Rom, but essentially you are still installing from what will be the same drive letter.
I should have mentioned.
IF you happen to get the jumpering or cable connections wrong the first time around (perhaps it was hard to see the legend showing jumper pin designations and you put one on the wrong pins) and the drives just aren't being reported correctly in the CMOS Setup, you will NOT have done any harm to the system. Just change them and try again until it all configures correctly.
IF you happen to get the jumpering or cable connections wrong the first time around (perhaps it was hard to see the legend showing jumper pin designations and you put one on the wrong pins) and the drives just aren't being reported correctly in the CMOS Setup, you will NOT have done any harm to the system. Just change them and try again until it all configures correctly.
ASKER
Bill,
Just to keep you up to date with my progress I wanted to tell you that I thought that since I was going to have to open my home computer I might as well add a USB 2.0 (with Firewall?) card and I'm debating whether to replace that defective DVD-Rom drive.
Bob
Just to keep you up to date with my progress I wanted to tell you that I thought that since I was going to have to open my home computer I might as well add a USB 2.0 (with Firewall?) card and I'm debating whether to replace that defective DVD-Rom drive.
Bob
ASKER
I meant Firewire, not Firewall.)
Hi Bob. I would have figured out what you meant :-)
Replacing the suspect DVD-Rom with a new CD-Rom or DVD-Rom Drive would be a very good idea, and it requires no specialist skills. A straight swapover, and it should be identified in the CMOS Setup Screen either by model number or just as it was ie. ATAPI Device.
Adding a Firewire or USB 2.0 card is optional, and very much dependent on your anticipated needs, but I would leave that until AFTER you install Windows again. Adding another piece of hardware at this time might add new unfamiliar territory to something you are approaching with some trepidation. Not that it would normally be complicated, but it's just something that can be accomplished after you reinstall Windows.
You should know however, that Windows 98SE does not have any inbuilt native support for the USB 2.0 Specification, and an add-on USB 2.0 Card would need to come with specific Win98se drivers to work as intended. In fact, Win98se was released as the USB Specifications were being finalised, so the support for even older devices interfacing with the USB 1.1 spec sometimes have problems and need specific drivers to work. Firewire (IEEE1394) data transfer speed is faster than the old USB 1.1 spec supported natively by Win98se, but USB 2.0 is faster again than Firewire.
This is a good site that deals with a lot of the Win98se USB issues:
http://www.usbman.com/win98seusbguide.htm
Examples of hardware :
http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/usb/adapters/AUA-4000/
http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/firewire/fw_adapt/AFW-4300/
http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/firewire/fw_usb/AUA-3020/
It all depends what USB and firewire peripherals you have, or plan to get, but DO check that drivers are available specifically for Win98se and that the devices are supported by Win98se.
So yes, I reckon a new fast CD-Rom or DVD-Rom Drive would be a good investment, and they are very cheap these days.
Replacing the suspect DVD-Rom with a new CD-Rom or DVD-Rom Drive would be a very good idea, and it requires no specialist skills. A straight swapover, and it should be identified in the CMOS Setup Screen either by model number or just as it was ie. ATAPI Device.
Adding a Firewire or USB 2.0 card is optional, and very much dependent on your anticipated needs, but I would leave that until AFTER you install Windows again. Adding another piece of hardware at this time might add new unfamiliar territory to something you are approaching with some trepidation. Not that it would normally be complicated, but it's just something that can be accomplished after you reinstall Windows.
You should know however, that Windows 98SE does not have any inbuilt native support for the USB 2.0 Specification, and an add-on USB 2.0 Card would need to come with specific Win98se drivers to work as intended. In fact, Win98se was released as the USB Specifications were being finalised, so the support for even older devices interfacing with the USB 1.1 spec sometimes have problems and need specific drivers to work. Firewire (IEEE1394) data transfer speed is faster than the old USB 1.1 spec supported natively by Win98se, but USB 2.0 is faster again than Firewire.
This is a good site that deals with a lot of the Win98se USB issues:
http://www.usbman.com/win98seusbguide.htm
Examples of hardware :
http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/usb/adapters/AUA-4000/
http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/firewire/fw_adapt/AFW-4300/
http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/firewire/fw_usb/AUA-3020/
It all depends what USB and firewire peripherals you have, or plan to get, but DO check that drivers are available specifically for Win98se and that the devices are supported by Win98se.
So yes, I reckon a new fast CD-Rom or DVD-Rom Drive would be a good investment, and they are very cheap these days.
ASKER
Hello Bill,
I have sent you an email attachment of a setup.txt file that I found in the win98 installation folder on the Second Edition Updates CD. I had never read this before but in preparation for the upcoming installation I thought that I should review it. That setup.txt file specifically stated:
1. INSTALLATION NOTES *IMPORTANT*
==========================
The Windows 98 Second Edition Updates CD is intended as a
Windows 98 upgrade only. You can install it only over an
existing version of Windows 98. Because of this limitation,
you should be aware of several issues.
Because this version will only upgrade over Windows 98,
installations from MS-DOS have been disabled. This means you
must be able to boot your current version of Windows 98 and run
Setup from there.
__________________________
I had asked you before whether I would need to actually install the Second Edition Updates on top of Windows 98 and you had indicated, if I didn’t misunderstand, that the Update CD offered a complete version. So it would seem, if I carry out Microsoft’s instructions, that I will need to follow a more complex procedure and get a lot more experience with the Windows installation process than I had thought.
Before I read that setup.txt file, I was just getting ready to send you a post to summarize my then current understanding about necessary procedures and ask about a possible shortcut to the process that I thought might be feasible but it looks as if I must revise my ideas now.
In your own words above in response to another "problem" I reported having "Damn, that's disappointing." I do have the Windows 98 installation CD with what I hope is its correct product key on its case.
I would appreciate your comments. Thank you.
Bob
I have sent you an email attachment of a setup.txt file that I found in the win98 installation folder on the Second Edition Updates CD. I had never read this before but in preparation for the upcoming installation I thought that I should review it. That setup.txt file specifically stated:
1. INSTALLATION NOTES *IMPORTANT*
==========================
The Windows 98 Second Edition Updates CD is intended as a
Windows 98 upgrade only. You can install it only over an
existing version of Windows 98. Because of this limitation,
you should be aware of several issues.
Because this version will only upgrade over Windows 98,
installations from MS-DOS have been disabled. This means you
must be able to boot your current version of Windows 98 and run
Setup from there.
__________________________
I had asked you before whether I would need to actually install the Second Edition Updates on top of Windows 98 and you had indicated, if I didn’t misunderstand, that the Update CD offered a complete version. So it would seem, if I carry out Microsoft’s instructions, that I will need to follow a more complex procedure and get a lot more experience with the Windows installation process than I had thought.
Before I read that setup.txt file, I was just getting ready to send you a post to summarize my then current understanding about necessary procedures and ask about a possible shortcut to the process that I thought might be feasible but it looks as if I must revise my ideas now.
In your own words above in response to another "problem" I reported having "Damn, that's disappointing." I do have the Windows 98 installation CD with what I hope is its correct product key on its case.
I would appreciate your comments. Thank you.
Bob
Hi Bob
Hmmm. Yes, the setup.txt file is quite definite when it states:
>>>
"The Windows 98 Second Edition Updates CD is intended as a Windows 98 upgrade only. You can install it ONLY over an existing version of Windows 98".
Because this version will only upgrade over Windows 98, installations from MS-DOS have been disabled. This means you must be able to boot your current version of Windows 98 and run Setup from there. You cannot reinstall the entire Windows 98 Second Edition directly from the Updates CD".
<<<
Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE that the original "TreePrint" listing of the Win98se CD you emailed to me was created from THAT "Second Edition Updates CD" you have just read the "setup.txt" file from?
Remember that I compared this listing with one created from MY Win98se CD and found what I am confident and certain are insignificant differences that would not have prevented a FULL installation from it.
I HAVE, however, found some info about a relatively little known "upgrade" issue on CD which is discussed here:
http://www.techweb.com/winmag/columns/insider/1999/072199.htm
>>>
Win98 Insider - July 21, 1999 -- Vol. 2, No. 9
By Scot Finnie, Winmag.com
WIN98 SECOND EDITION "UPDATES" CD CONFUSION
Are you confused about the $19.95 Windows 98 Second Edition Updates CD?
Well, I'd like to set you straight. When Microsoft offered reviewers the "gold" release code of Windows 98 SE, it came only in the form of the Win98SE Upgrade version, the one you pay something like $89 for in stores. The Windows 98 SE Updates disc, which was designed to upgrade existing Windows 98 installations only, wasn't offered to the press. As a result, we had to ask Microsoft to describe the behavior of that product so we could tell you about it. .... You cannot clean install Windows 98 Second Edition using only the $19.95 Win98 SE Updates CD. The only way to get a clean installation is to use your original Windows 98 CD to perform a clean install (of Win98 First Edition), and then use the Win98 SE Updates CD to upgrade your fresh Win98 installation to Second Edition. There's a text file on the Win98 SE Updates that tells you to do just that.
Win98 SE Review
http://www.winmag.com/specialreports/win99/se/se2.htm
Win98 SE News Story
http://www.winmag.com/news/1999/0601/0610a.htm
<<<
Obviously those web pages are old and outmoded now, and certainly you would no longer be able to get such a CD from Microsoft, but it does throw an unexpected spanner in the works .... for now, that is. I will wager that the "block" they have placed on this CD is probably fairly simple to bypass or is done through a single line in a text-based setup file. Without the benefit of actually having such a CD in my physical possession to inspect, I unfortunately cannot say with any certainty that this would be possible. If I had it in my possession for inspection, I'm pretty sure I could modify and burn a new CD from it that would bypass this restriction though.
With all Windows "Upgrade CD's" I have ever used (this includes upgrades to Windows 98, 98se, and ME), you could initiate setup.exe after booting to a Win98se boot floppy, and install a full version to a blank hard drive devoid of any previously installed older Windows version. When the verification process inspects your system for the existence of an operating system which is recognised as a "valid upgrade path", you can then fool it by swapping the "upgrade CD" for the installation CD or floppy for a full version of the older operating system and navigating to that. It then finds the files it needs to verify that you have that OS "installed" (it doesn't distinguish the fact that the drive is a CD or floppy), and you can replace the upgrade CD and the process of performing what is a fresh install proceeds.
So, as it stands, you seem to have one of these limited "Second Edition Upgrade" CD's which prevents running setup.exe from DOS - only from within Windows.
You DO, however, have a FULL Windows 98 installation CD with what you "hope is its correct product key on its case".
No problems really. I prefer not to upgrade over an existing older windows installation where possible, but it seems like we'll be stuck with this as the only option.
When ready to proceed,
1. Boot to your Win98se boot floppy choosing "With CD-Rom Support"
2. Issue the command FORMAT C: and follow the prompts.
3. When done, insert your Windows 98 First Edition CD-Rom and run setup as previously discussed.
4. Allow it to find hardware and install drivers for devices
5. Insert the "Second Edition Upgrade CD" and allow it to autorun to a choice that allows it to run its setup.
6. Reboot and then install any drivers for devices that still need them
7. Set up your Internet connection and run Windows Update
7. Configure your Windows Preferences
8. Install your application software.
Regards
Bill
Hmmm. Yes, the setup.txt file is quite definite when it states:
>>>
"The Windows 98 Second Edition Updates CD is intended as a Windows 98 upgrade only. You can install it ONLY over an existing version of Windows 98".
Because this version will only upgrade over Windows 98, installations from MS-DOS have been disabled. This means you must be able to boot your current version of Windows 98 and run Setup from there. You cannot reinstall the entire Windows 98 Second Edition directly from the Updates CD".
<<<
Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE that the original "TreePrint" listing of the Win98se CD you emailed to me was created from THAT "Second Edition Updates CD" you have just read the "setup.txt" file from?
Remember that I compared this listing with one created from MY Win98se CD and found what I am confident and certain are insignificant differences that would not have prevented a FULL installation from it.
I HAVE, however, found some info about a relatively little known "upgrade" issue on CD which is discussed here:
http://www.techweb.com/winmag/columns/insider/1999/072199.htm
>>>
Win98 Insider - July 21, 1999 -- Vol. 2, No. 9
By Scot Finnie, Winmag.com
WIN98 SECOND EDITION "UPDATES" CD CONFUSION
Are you confused about the $19.95 Windows 98 Second Edition Updates CD?
Well, I'd like to set you straight. When Microsoft offered reviewers the "gold" release code of Windows 98 SE, it came only in the form of the Win98SE Upgrade version, the one you pay something like $89 for in stores. The Windows 98 SE Updates disc, which was designed to upgrade existing Windows 98 installations only, wasn't offered to the press. As a result, we had to ask Microsoft to describe the behavior of that product so we could tell you about it. .... You cannot clean install Windows 98 Second Edition using only the $19.95 Win98 SE Updates CD. The only way to get a clean installation is to use your original Windows 98 CD to perform a clean install (of Win98 First Edition), and then use the Win98 SE Updates CD to upgrade your fresh Win98 installation to Second Edition. There's a text file on the Win98 SE Updates that tells you to do just that.
Win98 SE Review
http://www.winmag.com/specialreports/win99/se/se2.htm
Win98 SE News Story
http://www.winmag.com/news/1999/0601/0610a.htm
<<<
Obviously those web pages are old and outmoded now, and certainly you would no longer be able to get such a CD from Microsoft, but it does throw an unexpected spanner in the works .... for now, that is. I will wager that the "block" they have placed on this CD is probably fairly simple to bypass or is done through a single line in a text-based setup file. Without the benefit of actually having such a CD in my physical possession to inspect, I unfortunately cannot say with any certainty that this would be possible. If I had it in my possession for inspection, I'm pretty sure I could modify and burn a new CD from it that would bypass this restriction though.
With all Windows "Upgrade CD's" I have ever used (this includes upgrades to Windows 98, 98se, and ME), you could initiate setup.exe after booting to a Win98se boot floppy, and install a full version to a blank hard drive devoid of any previously installed older Windows version. When the verification process inspects your system for the existence of an operating system which is recognised as a "valid upgrade path", you can then fool it by swapping the "upgrade CD" for the installation CD or floppy for a full version of the older operating system and navigating to that. It then finds the files it needs to verify that you have that OS "installed" (it doesn't distinguish the fact that the drive is a CD or floppy), and you can replace the upgrade CD and the process of performing what is a fresh install proceeds.
So, as it stands, you seem to have one of these limited "Second Edition Upgrade" CD's which prevents running setup.exe from DOS - only from within Windows.
You DO, however, have a FULL Windows 98 installation CD with what you "hope is its correct product key on its case".
No problems really. I prefer not to upgrade over an existing older windows installation where possible, but it seems like we'll be stuck with this as the only option.
When ready to proceed,
1. Boot to your Win98se boot floppy choosing "With CD-Rom Support"
2. Issue the command FORMAT C: and follow the prompts.
3. When done, insert your Windows 98 First Edition CD-Rom and run setup as previously discussed.
4. Allow it to find hardware and install drivers for devices
5. Insert the "Second Edition Upgrade CD" and allow it to autorun to a choice that allows it to run its setup.
6. Reboot and then install any drivers for devices that still need them
7. Set up your Internet connection and run Windows Update
7. Configure your Windows Preferences
8. Install your application software.
Regards
Bill
ASKER
Bill, I'm still digesting the material.
Bob
Bob
ASKER
Bill, I'm currently trying to be sure that I have all the backups I need.
Bob
Bob
That's fine, Bob.
Let me know how everything goes :-)
Let me know how everything goes :-)
ASKER
OK, I've installed Windows 98 but had some device installation problems :-(
ASKER
Continuing to have some driver "indigestion" including the display adapter.
ASKER
Errors noted in drivers attempted to be used for graphics card installation but understanding the process better.
ASKER
Will probably have to reinstall the operating system to overcome problems with graphics card installation
ASKER
I've got install Second Edition Updates to be able to install my external hard drive.
Yes, that will probably be due to the inferior usb support offered by Win98 1st Edition.
ASKER
A nvcpl.dll error occurring each time on rebooting that had occurred as a result of installing my NVIDIA RIVA TNT graphics card with the 71.48 driver is no longer present after I installed the Second Edition updates.
ASKER
Using the Montego II installation CD, although it proceeded without any apparent errors, did not install the Montego sound card. The story of my computer life!
ASKER
Using TB2 Montego II installation file, although it proceeded without any apparent errors did not intall the sound card and the NIC card wasn't recognized. That same computer life continues!
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Am proceeding but think I may actually have to unseat and reseat the cards that aren't currently installing.
ASKER
Changing Plug and Play in the CMOS (or BIOS) setttings to YES to allow the operating system to handle Plug and Play still does not allow the uninstalled cards to be recognized by the system.
ASKER
Changing that Plug and Play setting in CMOS to 'YES' still did not allow recognition of the Sound and NIC cards by the operating system. However, was finally able to install the Sound and NIC cards and restored Internet connectivity. The next hurdle is the upgrading instructions to IE6 from the IE5.0 version that was installed along with the Windows98SE installation.
ASKER
Have upgraded to IE6 and next chore to accomplish will be to do a Windows Updating. Have recovered the Sound capability with the installation of the Sound card.
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Ater I installed the antiviral, antispyware programs, the remaining chore will be to properly do a Windows Update before the final work of installing Applications. Am trying to work with the Windows updating process now.
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Some delays for trying to understand the installation of problem installations but will get back to the Windows Updating again soon.
ASKER
To LeeTutor,
I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner on this. I recognize the great length of this question discussion and therein lies a few further quesitons regarding the best way to properly terminate this thread. How may I ask you these questions?
I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner on this. I recognize the great length of this question discussion and therein lies a few further quesitons regarding the best way to properly terminate this thread. How may I ask you these questions?
ASKER
Thank you, JDettman.
OK, I am confused in trying to follow Experts Exchange own preferred protocols, that the "question" I am now working on here is, specifically, getting my original question closed out so let me get these particular items clarified and I will then get back to the questions about the closing of the question itself - and don't worry these won't go on indefinitely.
Is it appropriate to ask these question regarding closing of my question (and not answering my original question at this point (actually at the tail end of the question itself) or should discussions like this be in the Community Support region?
Thank you.
OK, I am confused in trying to follow Experts Exchange own preferred protocols, that the "question" I am now working on here is, specifically, getting my original question closed out so let me get these particular items clarified and I will then get back to the questions about the closing of the question itself - and don't worry these won't go on indefinitely.
Is it appropriate to ask these question regarding closing of my question (and not answering my original question at this point (actually at the tail end of the question itself) or should discussions like this be in the Community Support region?
Thank you.
<<OK, I am confused in trying to follow Experts Exchange own preferred protocols,>>
Well there is no right or wrong way to do things really, but as you can see from the above exchange, when you try to get a lot done in one thread, it's difficult to follow what's going on. So asking seperate questions and keeping them focused on one specific thing generally moves a complex problem along quicker.
<<Is it appropriate to ask these question regarding closing of my question (and not answering my original question at this point (actually at the tail end of the question itself) or should discussions like this be in the Community Support region?>>
Community support is the best place to ask questions on how the site works, getting help with opening/closing questions, etc. You'll get the fastest response there as it's watched pretty closely.
But go ahead and ask whatever you want about closing a question here and let's get this one wrapped up.
Jim Dettman
MS Access PE.
Well there is no right or wrong way to do things really, but as you can see from the above exchange, when you try to get a lot done in one thread, it's difficult to follow what's going on. So asking seperate questions and keeping them focused on one specific thing generally moves a complex problem along quicker.
<<Is it appropriate to ask these question regarding closing of my question (and not answering my original question at this point (actually at the tail end of the question itself) or should discussions like this be in the Community Support region?>>
Community support is the best place to ask questions on how the site works, getting help with opening/closing questions, etc. You'll get the fastest response there as it's watched pretty closely.
But go ahead and ask whatever you want about closing a question here and let's get this one wrapped up.
Jim Dettman
MS Access PE.
ASKER
OK, the first question regarding the closing of my original question here is that, as you can see many months have gone by since the question was opened, and several people contributed but mainly BillDL and with all the material supplied to me and the clear explanations and patience, I do not really think it would be fair to leave the points at 500 but my inclination would be to raise it to 1000 or 1500 with the majority allocated to BillDL.
Would that be out of line? The question began with my problem of being unable to hear the sound any longer from my setup and during the course of that discussion it became apparent that my operating system was becoming more unstable and finally barely functional. In the process of helping me reinstall the Windows 98SE operating system the sound problem was also solved.
Thank you.
Would that be out of line? The question began with my problem of being unable to hear the sound any longer from my setup and during the course of that discussion it became apparent that my operating system was becoming more unstable and finally barely functional. In the process of helping me reinstall the Windows 98SE operating system the sound problem was also solved.
Thank you.
ASKER
To Keith alabaster:
I don't mean to be arguing but I am confused by your last answer because in reading the Help material it states:
"How do I award more points?
That depends on the situation. There are essentially two situations:
* One Expert gave you a ton of extra help, and you feel your 100-point question is now worth 200 points.
In this case, you just increase the points using the box above the comment box, and click the Submit button. You can only do this, however, before you select a comment as an answer."
But in my case I DID receive a ton of extra help (stetching over many months of time and good quality information) so I feel that it would not be out of line to award an extra 500 points in addition to my original award of 500 points. I'm new to EE even though I have been on the service probably over a year now and altogether haven't had a large number of questions so to be fair I would feel quilty only offering my original 500 points. I won't be continuing this discussion much longer (since I should terminate this question very soon) but I believe I should award extra points but I will abide by your statements now.
Thank you.
Bob
I don't mean to be arguing but I am confused by your last answer because in reading the Help material it states:
"How do I award more points?
That depends on the situation. There are essentially two situations:
* One Expert gave you a ton of extra help, and you feel your 100-point question is now worth 200 points.
In this case, you just increase the points using the box above the comment box, and click the Submit button. You can only do this, however, before you select a comment as an answer."
But in my case I DID receive a ton of extra help (stetching over many months of time and good quality information) so I feel that it would not be out of line to award an extra 500 points in addition to my original award of 500 points. I'm new to EE even though I have been on the service probably over a year now and altogether haven't had a large number of questions so to be fair I would feel quilty only offering my original 500 points. I won't be continuing this discussion much longer (since I should terminate this question very soon) but I believe I should award extra points but I will abide by your statements now.
Thank you.
Bob
Bob I need to get the wording clarified on the help page if it is ambiguous. It should read so that the meaning would be taken as 'increase up to a maximum of 500 points'.
Thanks for pointing out the anomaly though.
Regards
K
Thanks for pointing out the anomaly though.
Regards
K
Just to clarify as well, the item you point out from the help file shows how to increase from 100 --> 200, not how to increase over 500. You'll note that the very last line mentions the maximum poinys available per question
Many thanks, Bob, and also thank you to the administrators who assisted Bob with guidance to conclude this question.
Start Menu > Run > and type DXDIAG > click OK
Version will show against the "DirectX Version: " at the end of the list in the "System Information" box under the "System" tab.
While you are in there, run the tests under the "Sound" and Music" tabs.