Question

Help needed to interpret "Delivery Status Notification (Failure)" message

Asked by: BillDL

Hello Experts

Could someone please explain to me exactly what the following "bounced" email message means:

------------------------------------------
The following message to <deliberately_hidden@sbcglobal.net> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.4.7 - Delivery expired (message too old) [Default] 451-'4.7.7 Excessive userid unknowns from 212.74.100.52'
------------------------------------------

From the "ATTxxxx.DAT" file returned with the failed email as an attachment:

------------------------------------------
Reporting-MTA: dns; mk-filter-1-a-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com

Final-Recipient: rfc822;deliberately_hidden@sbcglobal.net
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
Remote-MTA: dns; [207.115.36.20]
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.4.7 - Delivery expired (message too old) [Default] 451-'4.7.7 Excessive userid unknowns from 212.74.100.52' (delivery attempts: 76)
------------------------------------------

My ISP is http://www.tiscali.co.uk and 212.74.100.52 is one of their IP Addresses (mk-filter-1-a-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com).

The intended recipient's ISP is sbcglobal.net which uses their old "Prodigy" servers.  IP Address 207.115.36.20 is one of theirs (nb-mx-vip1.prodigy.net).

My failed emails have all been coming back indicating that sbcglobal is rejecting those that have passed through the Tiscali servers using IP Addresses 212.74.100.52 through to 212.74.100.55.

It would seem to me to be a Blacklisting issue.  The IP Address 212.74.100.51 (mk-filter-4-a-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com) seems to be immune to this, because I have successfully sent email to the same recipient by logging into my account in Webmail interface.

Webmail messages seem always to be sent through 212.74.100.51, whereas Outlook Express messages are always rejected showing IP Addresses 212.74.100.52 to 212.74.100.55, but never 212.74.100.51.

I had the same issue (coincidentally?) exactly a year ago and, after liaising with idiotic 1st Level Tiscali Support "technicians" via their online help, it was eventually bumped up to another department and the issue was resolved/resolved itself within a day.

This time I believe I have the same idiotic 1st Level Support brain-donors who either misread each of my increasingly annoyed responses without referring to previous information given, or suggest "checking to make sure the recipient does not have you in the blocked sender's list".  

The first response from them stated:
"I understand that you are experiencing issue sending email from email client with a Tiscali email account.  Please note we have limited support for the email client Outlook Express. To investigate the cause, I request you to access the email account from the webmail interface."

What?!!!   "Limited support for the email client Outlook Express".
I don't want to log into Webmail and be bombarded with Flash adverts, nor to have to keep refreshing pages, and I want permanent offline retrievable emails.  Why should I have to use Webmail when I have a pop3 email account?  This notion was, of course, quickly dispensed with in my response.

What I would like to know is sufficient information about the possible reasons for that failure error occurring so that I can demand that something be done (if I am in the position to demand dependent on your explanations).

It's the "Excessive userid unknowns from xxx.xx.xxx.xx" part that I need to know about.

What "UserID"?
Does this indicate that my ISP is not applying compliant headers, or that the sbcglobal spam filtering software is being overzealous?

Could it infer that sbcglobal's servers have PREVIOUSLY been bombarded with spam messages with mismatching information in the headers from (or purporting to be from) Tiscali IP Addresses, and that the spam filters have blocked the IP range I mentioned?

I really need a well informed suggestion as to the most likely cause for the failure message.

What isn't helping is that it is taking 3 DAYS to get the "Delivery Status Notification (Failure)" messages returned to me, so it's hard to respond to the so-called Support staff I have been liaising with and trying to convince that the problem is not with my computer or the recipient's (I've checked all the settings using VNC connection).

It's hardly surprising that the reason for eventual return of my email became "5.4.7 - Delivery expired (message too old)", given that my ISP bombarded the sbcglobal mail servers 76 times over 3 days until conceding that they wouldn't accept the message.

Could this bombarding actually start or perpetuate a blacklisting due to the fact that each attempt is perceived as a new email?

Your experienced views on this would be helpful.

Thanks
Bill

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Asked On
2009-01-12 at 11:08:40ID24045107
Tags

Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

,

Outlook Express

,

sbcglobal

Topic

Email Clients

Participating Experts
1
Points
500
Comments
5

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Answers

 

by: chuckyhPosted on 2009-01-12 at 11:22:00ID: 23356325

How many recipients are on this email?

 

by: BillDLPosted on 2009-01-12 at 11:29:28ID: 23356391

Man that was quick :-)

Just one recipient, although I have tested a few times by adding my own email address to the Cc line.  All my test messages are one-liners using simple non-spammy subject lines and messages such as "sorry about this, but I am still testing to see if my emails are getting through".  The results are the same whether or not I attach any files, and the AVG AntiVirus footer applied automatically shows that the virus database is up to date.

Just covering some of the possible questions that may be asked.

 

by: chuckyhPosted on 2009-01-12 at 11:50:39ID: 23356589

Looks like there's been other people with the same issue.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20016852-General-Sending-EMail-Problem
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19883508-Earthlink-problems-with-email-to-from-SBCGlobal

You may need to contact SBC/ATT and see how they view this error, they can provide you with information to show Tiscali.

 

by: BillDLPosted on 2009-01-13 at 09:56:30ID: 23365324

Thank you chuckyh

I was hopeful that Tiscali would have contacted SBC/ATT to verify where the problem lay, and felt that would be faster in solving the issue than me trying to contact SBC directly as a non-subscriber.  You see, SBC/ATT do not make it particularly easy for a non-SBC/ATT subscriber to contact them with questions, and when it comes down to it their customer support/help is no better than Tiscali's, or perhaps even worse.  I've had experience of this several times while assisting the same email recipient with several connection related issues in the past.  That would have been the next step, however.

I have googled the error message on the last occasion a year ago, and again on this occasion, and studied the explanations.  Nobody so far, except perhaps one in your 2nd linked page, has actually offered an explanation of the cause of the mail delivery failures.

In that page there is a comment made by "Doctor Olds" who explains to the asker:
"Then that explains the sending to SBC/AT&T error as they are not taking the email you sent and the Earthlink server is telling you that it is still trying to send it, but the connection is being refused by SBC/AT&T claiming that our server is sending email to too many names that are being returned as unknown (not your message)".

The important part of that statement, in which I have corrected the apparent typo "our" to "your" is:
"... the connection is being refused by SBC/AT&T claiming that Your server is sending email to too many names that are being returned as unknown".

It sounds like what he/she is stating is that SBC/ATT servers have been bombarded by spam addressed to non-existent xxxxx@sbcglobal.net email addresses that have been despatched to them from Tiscali mail servers, and so "UserID" is the xxxxx in the email addresses.

Of course, Doctor Strange could be guessing as I have as to what "UserID" refers to, and it is entirely possible that he/she is wrong and it actually refers to some other identifying line in the message package being ofered to the SBC/ATT servers which doesn't quite match the other information.

I was hoping that perhaps someone with previous server-side experience may be able to point me to the specific RFC documentation where it quoted "UserID", but on searching google again EVERY failure listed with that same message involves an sbcglobal email address as recipient.  So it would appear that this message is pretty unique to either SBC/ATT or the software they use to filter spam.

I think I'll take up your suggestion, but have the intended recipient take up the issue with SBC/ATT rather than me as a non-subscriber.

Thanks

 

by: BillDLPosted on 2009-01-17 at 05:41:41ID: 31533683

Thanks. The issue is not solved ... yet, but I can't get satisfaction from my own ISP, so your suggestion of contacting the intended recipient's ISP is the most appropriate avenue to pursue.

20120131-EE-VQP-002

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