Question

3D rendering with GeForce Quadro FX370

Asked by: rondre

I built a computer for a client who uses autocad 2006 and suggested that he use the onboard video as a starter and we could add a card later on if he wanted more power.  He never used the 3D modeling that much because he was concerned that the computer wouldn't be able to handle it for larger files.  He stated as an example a 1.7 MB file that he could spin in 3D and it was pretty smooth using the onboard memory.  To make a long story short he asked me to order him a new card and for price point i suggested this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133209

figuring that since the onboard video is an ATI Radeon Xpress 1250 with 128 shared memory (of 2GB) and this is a dedicated card for AutoCad applications and has 256 mb of card memory that he should at least notice a marginal difference.

Unfortunately the 1.7 MB file doesn't appear to be any smoother and when attempting to spin a 3D image of 15 MB the rendering was approx 1 fps and was not smooth at all.

My question is does anyone know more about autocad and these nvidia quadro cards than I do and can they tell me if this sounds likea faulty card or if this card is just not enough for doing 3D effects?  Are the firegl series better than the quadro cards?  

I would assume that this card should be able to handle a 15 MB file since it has 256MB of ram just on the card and there were no other applications running.

The specs on the computer are:

Motherboard:ASUS M2A-VM AM2 AMD 690G Micro ATX
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ windsor cor
2 GB (2 x 1GB) Corsair XMS DDR667 memory
Western Digital 7200 rpm 160 gb Sata II in Raid 0 array

Any help would be appreciated.

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Asked On
2009-07-22 at 14:42:55ID24592762
Tags

hardware

,

nvidia

Topics

AutoCAD Software

,

Miscellaneous Hardware

,

Video Cards

Participating Experts
3
Points
500
Comments
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Answers

 

by: danyul_cPosted on 2009-07-22 at 15:26:24ID: 24920259

Have you made sure you have AutoCAD set to hardware rendering and played with those option? eg through OpenGL.

Usually by default it is set to software rendering and is not very efficient.

 

by: darrenmcwiPosted on 2009-07-22 at 16:41:18ID: 24920721

Quadro are some of the best cards you can get. Also, there is more too it than just file size. Complexity of the solids, how they are constructed, etc.

Also, if they have't done much 3d, they may not be using rendering settings optimally.

Also keep in mind if you just bought the card and built a system, you're using 5 year old software on new hardware/drivers which may give you poorer performance.

If they are still running 2006, they likely aren't committed to higher end use of their systems anyway IMO.

 

by: rondrePosted on 2009-07-23 at 07:34:35ID: 24925629

I will look into the hardware rendering through AutoCad - I didn't know that was an option (no experience w/ AutoCad).  Thanks!

 

by: rondrePosted on 2009-07-23 at 07:41:00ID: 24925699

Also, in case the guy using autocad doesn't know how to set the hardware rendering (and since I've never used it) can you tell me what is required to switch to hardware rendering?  I've found some tutorials on 2008-2010 but not sure if they're the same.

Thanks,
rondre

 

by: CallandorPosted on 2009-07-23 at 08:05:03ID: 24926002

Did you install the Quadro drivers?  Without them, the card uses the default Windows drivers.

 

by: danyul_cPosted on 2009-07-23 at 08:22:04ID: 24926227

I don't have 2006 but you should be able to go into the Tools menu then choose options then go into the system area and under 3D Graphics choose properties.

Then in the acceleration dropdown choose Hardware.

You video card should have included an autohad-compatible driver (HDI) and you can add the driver in this area by selecting the file.

The video card should have instructions on where the file is. Otherwise get it from the nvidia website.

 

by: rondrePosted on 2009-07-23 at 09:06:58ID: 24926807

Yes I installed the newest drivers for that card from nvidias website.  I will try the tools menu thing.  Thank you all, i will update soon.

 

by: rondrePosted on 2009-07-23 at 10:25:58ID: 24927701

So that seems to be the problem but I downloaded the driver for autocad 2006 from nvidia's website and i'm getting this type of error:

Nvidia 3D hardware renderer your powerdraft installation is corrupt - please reinstall powerdraft.  I can't seem to find something on this that is related.  Any further suggestions?

 

by: danyul_cPosted on 2009-07-23 at 10:31:08ID: 24927759

Maybe try download:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/powerdraft_15.07.03.html
http://www.nvidia.com/object/powerdraft_15.09.03.html

I would suspect the first one works with acad 2006.

 

by: danyul_cPosted on 2009-07-23 at 10:50:05ID: 24927997

Make sure to remove all existing drivers beforehand and then go for the install of the latest quadro drivers and the powerdraft app.

 

by: rondrePosted on 2009-07-23 at 12:35:25ID: 24929182

Thanks Danyul - I haven't figured this out fully yet but I think I know why this was failing.  I found this article:

http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2292&p_created=1227213594&p_sid=WJ7zvzDj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NCw0JnBfcHJvZHM9MCZwX2NhdHM9MCZwX3B2PSZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX25sJnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9cG93ZXJkcmFmdA**&p_li=&p_topview=1

Which talks about the AutoCad performance driver not working with autocad derivatives.  I checked and they are using Autodesk Architectural Desktop 2006 - and I think this may fall under this category even though that is not listed there.

When I go to the driver downloads section on Nvidia's website I see the following options for this card:

Quadro Graphics Driver (already installed this)
Quadro Performance Driver
Quadro Partner Certified Driver
Autocad Performance Driver
3ds Max Performance Driver

I had them uninstall the Autocad Performance Driver and download and install the Quadro Peformance Driver and now there is no corrupt message, but no drivers are listed when they click on hardware acceleration.  Am I missing something here?  

Thanks!

 

by: rondrePosted on 2009-07-23 at 14:11:08ID: 24929995

Ok a further update - i've now had him install the quadro performance driver, quadro partner certified driver, and autocad performance driver.  None of these will list an option in the hardware driver drop down list in autocad 2006 and thus it won't let the hardware acceleration be enabled.  I'm kind of confused on this whole thing (especially since i'm not there to physically be looking at this).  Is there something else that needs to be done - does this have to be done via the control panel of nvidia?

Thanks for your help.

 

by: darrenmcwiPosted on 2009-07-24 at 07:15:26ID: 24935093

You shouldn't need the AutoCAD Performance driver to switch to hardware accelleration.  The AutoCAD Performance driver was just an extra bonus driver if you will that nVidia released. Best to my recollection, the article you posted is currect, it wouldn't install on an AutoCAD based vertical. There's no technical reason for it, the AutoCAD vertical application (like ADT) is using AutoCAD as it's engine.   It's just that nVidia isn't checking for the different registry locations and file folders of the verticals and they've likely not bothered with the testing of it.

Installing the Windows drivers typically won't show an additional driver in the dropdown in AutoCAD. For that to happen, an AutoCAD specific Heidi based ADI driver would need to be installed and it's prety rare now in the Windows world that a graphics card manufacturer makes application specific drivers any more. They use to be the norm in the old DOS days but no longer.  Most of this is handled by Windows drivers which can be written to maximize CAD graphics performance.

Another thing to check is to make sure AutoCAD is using OpenGL and not Direct3D. 2006 was written to OpenGL not Direct3D. From what I saw in your replies, you are unable to configure it to hardware accelleration...this may be why.

Back to my earlier comments about new hardware with old software....Because Microsoft is not supporting OpenGL any more, Autodesk is moving it's newer software to use Direct3D not OpenGL. The graphics chip manufacturers like nVidia know this and as such, may not be supporting OpenGL as fully as they once were in their newer cards and drivers which could limit performance...if the card/driver is optimized for Direct3D and your software is optimized for OpenGL.

 

by: rondrePosted on 2009-07-24 at 07:52:58ID: 24935478

Thanks Darren.  I went over to mess with the system yesterday and was able to get some better performance in acad by tweaking the 3D settings in the Nvidia control panel for autocad (program specific settings tab).  It's still not what I would expect but I suspect you're right on with the opengl to direct3d thing.  

How would I check that acad 2006 is using d3d or opengl?  That program confuses me, I didn't even see a tools menu (was working blind as the cad guy was gone).  I guess the main question right now is should a 15 mb file be able to be spun in 3D in a smooth, non-choppy fashion or is that too much to ask of this card?  Knowing what it should do will help me determine how far to tinker.

thanks!

 

by: darrenmcwiPosted on 2009-07-24 at 08:05:21ID: 24935616

Type "Options" at the command line to bring up the "Options" dialog if the tools menu isn't there. The "System" tab is where as best I recall you'll find display settings and possibly options to change Direct3D to OpenGL. Just don't recall 2006 that well and the graphics UI has changed in newer versions. 3dCONFIG is the command you'd use in a modern AutoCAD.

Are you certain the model is 15mb? It could be "referencing" additional files.

It would also depend on several other factors...if materials/textures are applied, the complexity of the solids (cubes or complex freeform surfaces, etc).

I know you need to do what your cutomer requests of you but I seriously question their comitment to performance and 3d if they aren't commited to using updated software.  I've litterally spent hours installing things that should take 5 minutes on old systems for customers like this that want everything without making the proper investment.

I'd also find out what their end goal is.  Are they just trying to spin the model to reposition it to work on it? Or are they trying to do animations or walk throughs?  If the latter is the case, ADT/AutoiCAD isn't what they should be using...while it can do some of that..it's not esigned for it. They might be better to look at 3d Studio Viz/Max or even Navis which have graphics engines designed for that type of work.

Most firms I know doing serious presentation work, walk throughts or fly throughs for collision detection aren't doing it in AutoCAD.

 

by: rondrePosted on 2009-07-24 at 08:18:25ID: 24935787

Thanks for the info - I will see what I can find out from them!

 

by: danyul_cPosted on 2009-08-01 at 22:59:33ID: 24997829

Any luck with this?

 

by: rondrePosted on 2009-08-02 at 07:19:59ID: 24998947

Thanks for the follow up.  The guy hasn't been able to test his system as he's been out of town.  I did stop by and try to tweak things but acad 2006 is very confusing - there isn't even an options menu.

I did go to the nvidia control panel and tweak some settings in the program specific menu but i don't really know what i'm doing there.  I had his co-worker help me load that 15 mb file and it definitely spun better but not crisp.

I'll let you know early next week when he's back for testing.  Thanks!

 

by: danyul_cPosted on 2009-08-02 at 09:07:58ID: 24999246

Ok, I think options is in the tool menu. OR you can type OPTIONS in the command line down the bottom to open it up.

 

by: rondrePosted on 2009-08-13 at 06:24:05ID: 31606718

Thanks everyone, the guy using autocad's buisness is slow - don't know when he'll test this but i've got enough information to proceed from here - appreciate all the effort!

20120131-EE-VQP-002

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