Question

How to allow Remote Desktop through not one but TWO routers

Asked by: polaatx

I would like to access our office network from the outside. We have a T1 line coming into a router provided by CBeyond and then the signal goes through a cheap Linksys router. The linksys router is there to provide wireless capability to those who need it. See pic of setup below.

The linksys router assigns the IP addresses to the machines on network.  We have a static IP address.

I've setup port forwarding in the past on a similar router as the linksys in order to use Remote Desktop. But I am not sure what to do with the other router that proceeds the linksys router.

The ISP is unwilling or unable to provide any tech help. They just want me to instruct them to setup the router however I want.

I am wondering what would be the best setup with best security in mind.

For example, shall I have the ISP completely disable built-in firewall in their router and depend only on Linksys' firewall for security? That seems risky since the Linksys is just a cheap box made for home use.

Or better to free up just certain ports in the commercial router?  (I want access 3 different winxp machines) Would that mean certain ports would have to be "forwarded"? If so, to what IP? I am confused because the IP addresses don't get assigned by the commerical router, but the linksys router.

(At some point in the future, I would like to setup VPN access also. Please keep that in mind in providing your response. I have no idea how that plays into this because I've never setup VPN before on a host router.)

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Asked On
2009-02-05 at 11:43:34ID24116991
Tags

remote desktop

Topics

Remote Access Software

,

Networking Hardware Firewalls

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Windows Networking

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Answers

 

by: ged325Posted on 2009-02-05 at 11:56:01ID: 23563421

Setup the firewall as followS:

Their router.

Server:
Port forward 3389 to <public ip> of the linksys.
then in linksys re-forward 3389 to <static ip> of server.

XP:
Port forward 3390 to <public ip> of the linksys.
then in linksys re-forward 3390 to 3389 for IP of machine

Repeat as necessary incrementing the ports.  

 

by: piattndPosted on 2009-02-05 at 12:03:44ID: 23563506

What you should be able to do is have them enable port forwarding to a box that you want to allow RDP to.  For example, we have a particular machine we use to access from the outside.  We have port forwarding setup on our firewall so say port 12345 is forwarded to that machine.  So we RDP to something like this:

10.10.10.10:12345

The router should see the request come in on that port and forward it over to your box.  Might give that a shot.  Remember though, the IP you'll be accessing is not your internal IP.  It will be the IP your ISP issues you.

so if they issue you the IP 68.114.52.68, you should access:

68.114.52.68:12345

If I were you, let their device serve as the firewall.  It's probably more robust than your little linksys and you should be able to turn off your linksys firewall.  If you don't want to do that and your RDP box is behind both routers, the external router will forward to port 12345 on the linksysinterface, then port forwarding needs to be setup from the linksys over to your box.

 

by: polaatxPosted on 2009-02-05 at 12:35:18ID: 23563869

ged325:  I am not sure what you mean by "server" There are no servers here. Just two routers.

Let's do this: the first router (the router provided by the ISP, not the linksys) lets call it Router A.

The linksys router lets call it Router B.



Also how do find the " <public ip> of the linksys."   Is that the arbitary 192.168..... I set in the router's Admin setup?  I think that's what you mean but just checking.

>then in linksys re-forward 3389 to <static ip> of server.

I think by "Server" you mean Router A. But why would I want to re-forward back to the Router A? I want to reach a box sitting behind Router B. So shouldn't I set the box to a static IP and forward the port in linksys to that IP ?

 

by: polaatxPosted on 2009-02-05 at 12:41:25ID: 23563950

piattnd: I agree with you better to disable linksys firewall and stikc with probably more robust firewall of Router A.

Please see pic below. These are the only options I have in Linksys admin panel for firewall. I unchecked them all. Does this seem like all needs to be done to do away with its firewall?

 

by: ged325Posted on 2009-02-05 at 12:45:26ID: 23564005

polaatx:

under the status tab you'll get the public IP of the Linksys router.  (EG: the private IP assigned by router A)

take port N for router A forward it to port N with IP of router B.
           forward B to 3389 with IP of the windows box you want.

Redo this using different ports for N and the IP of the box you want.

 

by: polaatxPosted on 2009-02-05 at 12:56:44ID: 23564152

thanks ged. I got it now.

Do you think wise NOT to use 3389 for better security and instead setup winxp to use another port?

If so, shall I just pic a number out of the blue? say 50678 ?

 

by: ged325Posted on 2009-02-05 at 13:03:09ID: 23564229

Not really worth it as you're protected by 2 routers.

On the public side you can forward 50678  . . . if the request comes in on 3389 it will be rejected by the first router.

Also internally keeping 3389 will make your life a lot easier as you can just remote in.



 

by: polaatxPosted on 2009-02-05 at 13:14:49ID: 23564367

>On the public side you can forward 50678  . . . if the request comes in on 3389 it will be >rejected by the first router.

ged, I apologize for being so thick. By saying "on the public side", do you mean have Router A forward port 50678 to 3389 ?   So on my remote computer, I have to tell it to try port 50678 instead of 3389 -- correct?

We have 3 different boxes we want to reach from outside. So I would have to setup at least two of them to use Remote Desktop on a port different than 3389 --- correct? Or is there an easier way ?

 

by: ged325Posted on 2009-02-05 at 13:20:29ID: 23564442

polaatx, not a problem this stuff is complicated.

Public side is always your first line of defense, and yes, it means the public port on Router A.

A forward is an IP address + PORT combo.  
(I accept connection on port X, I forward on Y to some IP).

you can have
Public Port  (router A)     IP                     "External Port, router B"   Internal Port router B      IP
X,                                   B's External IP                X                                   3389                  Machine 1 IP
X+1                                B's External IP               X+1                                 3389                  Machine 2 IP
X+2                                B's External IP               X+2                                 3389                  Machine 3 IP

 

by: piattndPosted on 2009-02-05 at 14:09:04ID: 23564884

First of all, I would strongly recommend changing the port that is used for RDP.  Don't use the default.

As for turning off the firewall, after researching some documentation, you might need to upgrade the firmware to do it, but someone said it should be under the security tab.  You might also try clicking the "more" button on the right side.

 

by: polaatxPosted on 2009-02-05 at 17:24:58ID: 23566133

Hi,

Router A is setup to forward port 5xxx to Router's B's public IP address, which is 10.0.1.4  

Router B is set to forward port 5xxx to 192.168.2.120.  The host box is set to use static ip address of 192.168.2.120 and use RDP at port 5xxx.

I put in the following in the remote computer:

xx.xx.xx.xxx:5xxx  

(all the x are numbers not shown for security)

But I get "Remote Desktop Disconnected" error.

I tried connecting internally:

192.168.2.120:5xxx

and it works. So problem is not from the host box.

How can I troubleshoot this? Is there a way to check that the ISP correcting setup port forwarding on Router A?


 

by: ged325Posted on 2009-02-06 at 06:16:34ID: 23569858

Any specifics on the error?  Could it be because of encryption issues?

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=323497

 

by: ged325Posted on 2009-02-06 at 06:18:53ID: 23569882

FYI, that second hop on router B:
Router B is set to forward port 5xxx to 192.168.2.120.  The host box is set to use static ip address of 192.168.2.120 and use RDP at port 5xxx.

could be
Router B is set to forward port 5xxx to 192.168.2.120.  The host box is set to use static ip address of 192.168.2.120 and use RDP at port 3389

Would save you time configuring the clients.

 

by: polaatxPosted on 2009-02-06 at 13:36:09ID: 23574468

Dear Ged,

I am sorry this question is dragging on.

The host machine is indeed configured to use port 5xxx, not 3389.

As I wrote, using 192.168.2.120:5xxx internally works fine.

Below is the error I get.

Is there some kind of software or another remote control program that can give verbose logs to tell me where the issue is?

One thing:

The settings sheet provided by ISP says:

DEFAULT GATEWAY IP ADDRESS:  XXXXXXXX.310

USABLE PUBLIC IP ADDRESS RANGE: XXXXXXX.311

I assumed that the second item is the "usable public ip address" that comes with our package.

But the online ip services say my ip is the 310 number not 311.  Both give the error message on the remote box.

Which one of the above is the one that I should be trying?

 

by: polaatxPosted on 2009-02-06 at 13:37:05ID: 23574479

Encryption issues? I am not sure what you mean.

 

by: frankc0610Posted on 2009-02-06 at 13:54:34ID: 23574633

Honestly, this question has an easy solution, here is how I see it:

A Router - Router from ISP
 - WAN IP: 4.2.2.1 (just an example)
 - LAN IP: 192.168.1.1  --- DHCP Pool: 192.168.1.10 - 30

B Router - Linksys
 - WAN IP: 192.168.1.10 (provided by DHCP server on Router A)
 - LAN IP:  192.168.2.1   --- DHCP Pool: 192.168.2.100 - 150      
 
C - User  - Your RDP system - Ip provided by Router B (linksys) of 192.168.2.100

Change the port on the Windows server to say, 5100.  To make this work properly, there would need a port forward on Router A TO Router B (192.168.1.10) to port 5100, then a  port forward on Router B to port 5100 to IP 192.168.2.100, below is the flow.
        A                               B                                  C
4.2.2.1(5100) -> 192.168.1.10(5100) -> 192.168.2.100(5100)

 

by: frankc0610Posted on 2009-02-06 at 14:04:51ID: 23574722

What is the WAN IP or Internet IP in the status screen of your Linksys router?  Is it internal or external?

With the information you provided above with the .310 and .311, it makes me believe your Linksys IS your gateway to the net and your only going through one NAT network.  

If your WAN on the Linksys has an external IP, you should be able to do the port foward in the Linksys only and it work.  Connecting to the WAN IP of the linksys should do it.

If you already have port forwards in place and they aren't working, make sure your not trying to connect from within the same network as 192.168.2.120.  Reason for this is, if your IP on another system is 192.168.2.121 and your connecting to the .311 address, your Natting OUT of .311 (or .310), then right back in, this can and most liekly will cause problems in cheap routers like the Linksys.  

 

by: polaatxPosted on 2009-02-06 at 15:15:33ID: 23575258

>If you already have port forwards in place and they aren't working,make sure your not trying >to connect from within the same network as192.168.2.120.  Reason for this is, if your IP on >another system is192.168.2.121 and your connecting to the .311 address, your Natting OUT>of .311 (or .310), then right back in, this can and most liekly willcause problems in cheap >routers like the Linksys.

This is exactly what I'm doing because I don't have another net connection. In the past, I had no problem testing my RDP connections in this way using a Linksys router -- although not this exact model.

On the issue, WAN IP, Linksys definitely is not my gateway to the outside. Below you see screenshot of status screen:


 

by: polaatxPosted on 2009-02-06 at 15:16:28ID: 23575261

Sorry, wrong screenshot earlier.

 

by: polaatxPosted on 2009-02-06 at 15:17:01ID: 23575263

Here it is.

 

by: frankc0610Posted on 2009-02-06 at 16:36:35ID: 23575751

Yes, but in the past did you have 2 routers in place?  Just curious.

As long as you have the ports set the same all the way through like my example, you should be able to connect.  Did you modify the port for RDP in your registry?

If your not 100% whether your IP is the .310 or .311, go to http://www.whatismyip.com/  - That will tell you for sure.  Then, to connect to a different port from the default RDP port, you would do: IP:port (If I'm not mistaken)

 

by: polaatxPosted on 2009-02-06 at 16:58:54ID: 23575865

frank, in the past I didn't have TWO routers. So I will try from home tonight to see problem is from trying to connect from the same ip.

My ip is definetly xxxxx.310 according to al lthe online IP places.

But I wonder why ISP instructions say::

  • DEFAULT GATEWAY IP ADDRESS:  XXXXXXXX.310 
  • USABLE PUBLIC IP ADDRESS RANGE: XXXXXXX.311 

I wonder what the .311 is for.

 

by: frankc0610Posted on 2009-02-07 at 06:32:30ID: 23578363

.311 is most likely an external IP that you could use on your linksys.  You would have to assign it manually.

If it doesn't work from home, email them or call and ask if that .311 is an IP that could be used on a PC or your Linksys, if so, they would need to provide you with the subnet mask.  You could just try using 255.255.255.0 or 255.255.255.254.  

 

by: polaatxPosted on 2009-02-07 at 17:42:23ID: 23581527

frankc0610 was right. Connecting from outside the network did work. It was just testing from inside the network that was not working. thank you to all for all the help.

 

by: polaatxPosted on 2009-02-07 at 17:44:51ID: 31543390

Thank you to everyone for staying with me until the issue was resolved.

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