Question

backup software to backup across wan

Asked by: Kurt4949

Whats the best backup software to backup 300gigs of data over a 2mbps wan connection?  I'm thinking about installing a NAS at both locations.  How often would I need to schedule a full backup?   What's the best method to achieve this and what software is recommended?

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Asked On
2009-10-02 at 12:56:18ID24781384
Topics

Backup & Restore Software

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Backup Exec

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Disaster Recovery

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Answers

 

by: L3370Posted on 2009-10-02 at 13:29:50ID: 25481807

If you are talking about a windows/ active directory domain...
You could consider setting up DFS replication because 300gigs over 2mb line is probably going to put you out of commision every time a full backup is done. With DFS replication once each side is mirrored only the changes are replicated to each site, making the data transfer MUCH smaller than 300gigs all at once.

More needs to be known about your network and the two sites to know if that indeed is a proper solution for you.

 

by: Kurt4949Posted on 2009-10-02 at 14:43:27ID: 25482586

The two sites would just be the office and the home office.  Both have a 2mbit upload speed.  I was thinking of transferring the data over a secure sftp connection.

 

by: L3370Posted on 2009-10-02 at 15:41:40ID: 25482858

And how many servers/computers are invloved in this?
If I'm doing my calculations right (and please someone correct me if i am wrong!) it would take roughly 42 hours for 300GB of data to be transferred over a 2mb line, assuming full capacity is utilized, nothing else taxing the resource. How often are you planning to do a full backup? Is there an entire weekend that no one is working at that off site?

 

by: Kurt4949Posted on 2009-10-03 at 20:54:27ID: 25488076

3 servers.  I think you're wrong on the time calculation.  A 300gig upload would take 15 day(s), 13 hr(s), 47 min(s),  over a 2mbit connection.  It seems I could only do that once per year at the most.  I would probably need to throttle the connection at 1mbit so it would take twice as long.  This doesn't even seem feasible.  Yet there are companies out there offer paid online backup solutions like Barracuda backup service.  they charge $150 per month if I backup 300gigs.  

It seems like if their appliance\software can do it then I should be able to set up a NAS at my second location and use my own backup software which is why I started this question.  I want to know which software works best for this type of backup.

 

by: SelfGovernPosted on 2009-10-04 at 18:31:51ID: 25491851

It's possible to do something like this on a continuous backup scheme, if you can sync the two storage devices once over a fast link.  See, for example, HP's Storage Mirroring product, that will replicate systems by sending only differences once the data is completely backed up.  There are also D2D backup devices that can do similarly; they mimic one or more tape libraries, and then through deduplication (block-level single-instance storage) can replicate by sending only changes and some metadata over the WAN.  Search for "d2d backup system".

My concern, though, is as much for the mechanics of the backup, as well as the concept of archival storage.   Is it possible that you would ever -- for either legal or business rules -- need to retrieve data from a year ago?   Or five years ago?  (Some of those reasons could include a lawsuit or internally to gather evidence of employee fraud/embezzlement)  Disk is a bad way to try to store archival data.  Tape's still the best for that, and a 'green' technology, since tape drives use way less electricity than disks, and a tape on a shelf uses almost no electricity (aside from environmental temperature/humidity control).

 

by: DextertronicPosted on 2009-10-06 at 19:05:18ID: 25511666

Doubletake.

Perfect fit.

I use it for a very similar scenario. 250 GB of data over 4 Mb/s.

The trick is to stage the data at the second site. Take it over on external and copy it on to the NAS then let Doubletake sync the differences.

Very cool software.

Try the demo version www.doubletake.com

You would only need the Doubletake Livewire verison which is cheaper than the full version.

 

by: DextertronicPosted on 2009-10-06 at 19:08:09ID: 25511676

I agree with Self Govern that you should still be backing up to tape whether you do it at your Production site or your Secondary site;

otherwise all you have is duplication, not backup.

 

 

by: Kurt4949Posted on 2009-10-06 at 20:12:08ID: 25511961

Doubletake sounds interesting.  I've heard I could do the same thing with Acronis.  Do you normally do a full backup each night to your tape drive?

 

by: DextertronicPosted on 2009-10-06 at 20:21:00ID: 25511994


The nightly backups are split between images of the OS and applications volumes and tape backups of the data volumes.

Full backup each night .

Tapes and images on external hard disk go offsite every day,

 Doubletake is all about replication. It only replicates changes in the data at the block level. I use it to replicate Exchange databases and other directory structures to a DR site. Roughly 5 minutes after a piece of data changes that change is replicated to our DR site. I also use the High Availability feature to failover to "cold" Exchange servers running Doubletake at the DR site. Very cool feature.

Acronis is a good imaging solution (personally I use SYmantec Backup Exec System Recovery) but it doesn't do replication.

 

by: Kurt4949Posted on 2009-10-06 at 20:36:09ID: 25512047

Nice solution.  I think for now we are holding off on the off site replication.  

Right now my plan is to upgrade the LTO2 drive to removable disks.  The disk would be large enough to hold images and data of all the servers.  We would do a full backup each night.  

Should I create an image each night or maybe a weekly image and just data every night?  I also have an onsite NAS device.  Right now I'm just doing a full data backup every night.  It only holds 5 days worth.  

 

by: DextertronicPosted on 2009-10-06 at 20:46:19ID: 25512072

You could do a full image every Friday and an incremental backup every other night.

Do you not have a requirement to be able to retrieve data from weeks/months/years earlier?

 

by: Kurt4949Posted on 2009-10-06 at 20:56:32ID: 25512116

Right now we do not have that requirement.  We do keep some tapes for up to 6 months though.  I don't think I'm going to buy that many removable drives.  I was thinking I could modify the NAS to hold backups for a longer period of time if needed.

 

by: DextertronicPosted on 2009-10-06 at 21:58:32ID: 25512320

Just bear in mind that when the boss comes looking for that critical email/document/database record he last saw 12 months ago you won't be in a position to retrieve it.

Happens to me all the time which is why I keep 4 weeks of weekly  and  7 years of monthly backup tapes offsite.

I would suggest you make sure the business is aware of that before you commit yourself to a particular position.

If they sign off on it (make sure you keep a copy) then no problems your ass is covered.

 

by: Kurt4949Posted on 2009-10-07 at 06:59:41ID: 25515384

Thanks for your quick reply.  We will be discussing our options soon and I will be sure to mention that.  At one point we only had backups going back 7 weeks.  I've only had 1 request for an older file which is why I added 6 monthly tapes.

I'm hoping I can modify my NAS device to hold at least a years worth of incremental backups.  If they want longer than a year then tapes may be the way to go instead of the removable disk option.

 

by: SelfGovernPosted on 2009-10-07 at 15:18:39ID: 25520703

Careful!

> I'm hoping I can modify my NAS device to hold at least a years worth of incremental backups.

If you only do a full, and then incrementals 'forever' after that, you stop being able to restore your data at the first error retrieving one of those incremental backups... things will just come to a grinding halt as your backup software asks you to do the impossible: fix that incremental that has somehow gotten corrupted.

Backup applications like Tivoli Storage Manager and HP's Data Protector that have "incremental forever" functionality let you periodically generate a "synthetic full" backup tape from all those incrementals, essentially resetting the furthest you can retreive data from the incremental-forevers to that point in time.

There are D2D Backup Systems that emulate tape libraries, allowing you to backup data over the network, storing backups and performing deduplication so that you're only storing new data and the (block-level) differences between previous data and this current backup... but they may be more expensive than a simple NAS backup.

And I hate to be a nabob of negativity -- but please also consider that physical disks are a rotten way of storing data off-line.  There's a firmware process that runs in every disk drive during idle time, checking the magnetic coercivity of the data written.  If the signal strength is low, they'll re-write that data and check it again.  If it's still out-of-spec, the data gets moved to a special reserved are of the disk, the disk remaps itself internally to point to the new location, original sector is marked bad, so it doesn't get used again.   When you pull the power from a disk (by any means, such as removing a hot-plug disk from its enclosure, or pulling the USB or power cable, etc.) it's no longer spinning.  That integrity check doesn't happen.  And you'll never know if things have started to go bad until you try to do a restore from it... at which point, it's probably too late.

Tape still has a place for archiving.

 

by: DextertronicPosted on 2009-10-07 at 21:05:24ID: 25522273

Absolutely agree with SG regarding hard drives as poor long term storage.

A mix of online for short and tape for long is a good combo.

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