Question

Companies guarrentying No.1 Google listings

Asked by: chriscounter07

Hi,
I would like to know the expert opinions on these companies.  Most claim they do not need to modify anything on the website itself.  What sort of practices do they do?  Some thoughts I have on how they do this include:

- One way/Reciprical link exchange
- Social Bookmarking of site e.g. Digg
- Submit answers to Yahoo
- Forum or Blog posts using mock up names
- Fancier artwork for MySpace/Facebook
- Twitter
- Contact certain brands in order to attach your brand to a market

Am I right?  Is this what they do?  Is this how they think they can guaranty Number 1 spots?

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Asked On
2009-08-04 at 03:48:30ID24624150
Topics

Internet Marketing

,

E-Commerce

,

Marketing

Participating Experts
2
Points
300
Comments
11

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Answers

 

by: Hube02Posted on 2009-08-04 at 05:09:20ID: 25012686

No one can guarantee the number 1 spot on Google.... well, I guess they can, but they are lying. I work for an internet market company and we never promise or guarantee the #1 spot. We do promise that we will improve rankings, but never that #1 position even if it is the #1 position that we are shooting for.

There are many things that can be done to improve ranking without touching the pages, many of them you have listed. However, without a good SEO plan that includes rewriting content to optimize the page for the terms that are being targeted, in the end, the page will fall off even if they initially appear near the top. SEO and Internet Marketing is a never ending process.

 

by: chriscounter07Posted on 2009-08-04 at 05:48:07ID: 25013042

Hi Hube02, thanks for your post.

I'm trying to work out how you/they do this and I think it may be something like this...

Say there is an Internet Marketing company is called Nikeee who have SEO'd their site to the absolute best it can be.  Their header tags are well done, description fields are made up of both standard keywords AND a bit of dynamic (changing) content which all comes together to build a Google/Yahoo listing.  This listing will easily be number one given the right content.

I pay them money
They put a page on their site containing this information.  The URL is still listed in their company name.
They then stick a temporary redirect on the page to point to my site
Now the reason they are number 1 in the listing is because they have many clients set up on their domain name.  Any page hosted on Nikeee is automatically going to be competitive if someone types the right keyword


Or do they just use PPC?

What do you think
Other input very much welcome!

 

by: Hube02Posted on 2009-08-04 at 06:50:25ID: 25013752

Redirects can help, but only in the short term. They need to get links to the site. These links need to be on sites that are respected. If the site is SEO'd the best that it can be then adding links from respected sites helps. Perhaps their site is respected, however, if they just have a bunch of sites linked from theirs' then it starts to look like a link farm and will soon be ignored.

I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not an expert at SEO. I work at an Internet Marketing company, but I don't do the internet marketing stuff myself. I'm a developer and I implement what the experts at it here want done. I do know however that getting quality links to a site is the most important thing. Without those links your site can be the best in the world and still it will not get into the SERPs.

PPC can help, but it is only temporary while other methods are used to build natural traffic through linking.

Perhaps they have an "IN" with a well respected site. This is always possible.

 

by: chriscounter07Posted on 2009-08-04 at 15:52:50ID: 25018938

Any other thoughts on this?

 

by: gwkgPosted on 2009-08-04 at 21:53:29ID: 25020250

PPC is always a quick way to "guarantee" a number 1 ranking.  Technically, it might be only way to get the true top ranking.

Getting to the top of the organic list is different for every keyword.  What it takes to rank for "girls dancing" is nothing like getting to the top for "miami real estate"

That being said, the only way to consitently get top rankings is through link building.

How your particular company plans on doing that, I can't say.  But common ways are building links through web 2.0 sites (squidoo), social bookmarking sites (delicious.com) and article distribution (ezinearticles.com)

 

by: chriscounter07Posted on 2009-08-05 at 02:54:30ID: 25021604

So gwkg, what your saying is that companies you pay to do something actually are only link building and nothing more?

My question was how do these companies guaranty you will be top (or close) in search engine results?  Hube02 suggests that while link building and the quality of the ad is important there may be an IN with Google, Yahoo, Bing etc.  What this IN is perhaps needs to be clarified.

Paying a company who just went off and created load of PPC campaigns would annoy me no end - I could arrange that!

 

by: Hube02Posted on 2009-08-05 at 03:48:14ID: 25021909

Not an "IN" with Google, Yahoo, Bing.... but an "IN" with a site that is well respected by the search engines.

For instance, lets say that .edu sites are more respected than .com sites (in fact, they are) and your company has a relationship with a local college/university that has a significant web presence. Getting links on such a site would be of higher quality than on some link farm or index site.

Another way to generate quality links is to write good articles for Wikipedia on the subject that your company deals with. These are not simply adds, but useful information that people are looking for. To this information you include links to other sites with additional information.

These are just a couple of examples of how to create quality links. I'm sure that whatever company you are looking at has other ways of doing so, that is if they are good at what they do. Some of which they likely want to keep secret because they believe they've got something that no one else has.

Link building is more than just going out and finding places to add links to indexes. Links of this kind are okay, but not the sort of thing you really want any more.

Link building has become an art, and this is really what SEO is about.

However, I go back to my original statement, and the answer to your question: "How can a company guarantee the #1 position on Google?" My answer is still that: "They Can't".  I would be leery of any company that guarantees the #1 spot on Google. There is no way to guarantee this and even if it happens there is no way to guarantee that you keep that number one position for very long.

Unless of course they are making this guarantee base on the fact that they will get you ranked #1 for some obscure keywords that no one is actually searching for. If I wanted to I could get you ranked #1 for "bigglydiddlydo" and likely do so in a matter of days, but what good would be being ranked for such a term be?

 

by: gwkgPosted on 2009-08-05 at 05:58:45ID: 25022847

@chriscounter07  Yes, thats what I'm saying.  What else is there?  Once the onpage stuff is done, the only controllable variable left is backlinks.

PPC doesn't count as links to your site, btw.

To specifically answer the question: how do these companies guaranty you will be top (or close) in search engine results?

Through experience they know what it takes to get the top spot and they go out and do it.  No site is #1 for anything worthwhile by accident.  Someone did "something" to get there.  All you have to do is duplicate that "something" +1

@Hube02 While no company can guarantee #1 for words like toys or real estate, it doesn't necessarily have to be an "obscure" keyword phrase they guarantee.  I can get someone number 1 for something like "boca raton pressure washing" and probably do it in less than a week.  

But then you start getting into the problem of what exactly is number 1, as there are 12 businesses listed on Google for that phrase before the organic listings even start.  So am I guaranteeing #1 or #13?

Thats why I feel a first page listing is usually a more honest guarantee.

 

by: gwkgPosted on 2009-08-05 at 06:09:57ID: 25022983

I should also mention that its a lot easier to get something like squidoo.com/yourbusiness ranked than yourbusiness.com.

Why don't you just ask them what they are going to do to get you ranked #1?

 

by: Hube02Posted on 2009-08-06 at 03:53:03ID: 25031862

@gwkg

Our contracts and promises are worded more carefully. While our aim is always that number 1 position, we don't even guarantee the first page. The problem with guarantees of this nature is what happens if you don't come through. While we don't make this guarantee, we do bring up and show prospective clients results of searches where we have archived that coveted #1 spot as well as those where we have placed clients on the first page. Like I said, the problem is, if you promise that #1 position and don't deliver, then what? refund their money? It is a guarantee isn't it?

 

by: chriscounter07Posted on 2009-08-13 at 02:10:11ID: 25086461

I think the two experts contributing to this thread have done an exceptional job in pointing me in the right direction.

Yes I have taken to actually talking to these SEO companies, find out who they are and how they intend to make an investment better.  I can make some key assumptions from this - pasted from another thread


From the small amount that I've learn t I can make some key assumptions. It seems to me that the only way a company can be a worthwhile investment is if they look at actually changing the long term. I'm talking link building (and good PR2 and above at that), associating the business with a specific brand in a specific market and posting relevant content on forums.

Take 15 words you want to be successful with and trace these words back to the origins of marketing. Good example is clothing. Clothing is fashion, fashion is worn by celebrities and bands, these celebrities have an appeal to a specific audience. This audience may be Bohemian or Classic, Business-like or rock. This is the point where your advertising should be to get the most return on investment.

I've got a question posted on experts exchange too asking the same thing...

www.experts-exchange.com/Web_Development/Internet_Marketing/Q_24624150.html



The only bit I'm struggling to understand is that companies tell me they have bought a phrase or some keywords. How can they do that if not by PPC - which any man and his dog can do?

thanks
skip                         


And another forum member follows this up with...


QUOTE

You are right! The fact is that these companies are just running "pay per click" campaigns. Many people fall for this tactic because the majority of people do not know the difference between a paid listing and an organic listing.


So I guess the key to companies that offer this service is through their expert knowledge of link building.  It is not good enough to cold call a website and say, Hey, put our link on your site for free.  SEO companies know this and know the solution.

But it seems in order to quicken up the process they are quite happy to blag to the first page through PPC while waiting for the links on these sites (500 seems a good figure) to be crawled by bots.

I'll give points shortly.
thanks for your help


20120131-EE-VQP-002

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