Dual Boot Disaster

PS - the original Win2K Professional partition still (thankfully) works fine.

You'll probably want to begin by reading this MS TID:
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q149/8/77.asp

Some info:
http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000402.htm
and the long version:
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q149/8/77.asp

Hope this helps
Tonny

And some info i found another place on the net:
--------------------------------------------------
Use another operating system (or an alternate boot) to edit c:\boot.ini and change the multi() syntax to the scsi() to defeat the miscalculation error in the multi() code.
--------------------------------------------------

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q272/3/95.ASP
Also if the only thing wrong with sector zero was that the last two bytes are not 55AA, this can be fixed with a disk editing program (ie. Norton Diskedit.)

Hi,

This were a problem for me with NT4 when the partition 4
 begin after the 4096 Mb.
It is a limitation of the boot text mode.
Sinds i resize the 3 1st partitions to have the new partition in the 4096 Mb it were OK.

I install Win 2k after the 4 Gb limitation and i don't have this problem.
I dont' know the limitation for Win 2K
Probably the partition must begin in the 7850 Mb.

Longbow

More disk limitation info:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=windows+2000+install+disk+size&start=10&hl=en&safe=off&rnum=11&selm=ec6dPny8%24GA.218%40cppssbbsa02.microsoft.com

Caraf Q - in the link provided on 08/18/2001 10:08AM PST
you will see an MS TID that includes disk limitations.

Whoa... wait a sec..... Can I install the OS on any 4G partition or do I have to be careful *where* the partition is located ?

<confused>

Hold on I am thinking. . .

Hi,

The limitation for NT4 to boot the OS is 4 GB
Then The partition MUST begin in this size.

For Win 2k the limitation may be 8 Gb, not sure.
Anyway you may install Win 2k after the 4 Gb limitation size.

Longbow

Hi,

The limitation for NT4 to boot the OS is 4 GB
Then The partition MUST begin in this size.

For Win 2k the limitation may be 8 Gb, not sure.
Anyway you may install Win 2k after the 4 Gb limitation size.

Longbow

Pino
I'm in Tech net thinking copy:


PSS ID Number: Q227707
Article last modified on 10-21-2000
 
WINDOWS:2000
 

 

======================================================================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this article applies to:
 
 - Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
- Microsoft Windows 2000 Server
- Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server
- Microsoft Windows 2000 Datacenter Server
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
SYMPTOMS
========
 
When you create a partition on your hard disk during Windows 2000 Setup, you are
not allowed to select the type of partition to create (primary or extended).
 
CAUSE
=====
 
This behavior occurs because Windows 2000 Setup determines the partition type
for you, based on the existing partition table and where you choose to install
Windows 2000.
 
RESOLUTION
==========
 
To work around this behavior, follow these steps:
 
1. Before you install Windows 2000, start your computer using a Microsoft
  Windows 95, Microsoft Windows 98, or MS-DOS boot disk.
 
2. Use the Fdisk.exe program to create the partition(s) you want.
 
   NOTE: Fdisk only allow you to create a single Primary partition, however, if
  you want Windows 2000 in a second Primary partition, create an extended
  partition on the drive.
 
3. Start Windows 2000 Setup and install to one of the partitions you created, or
  let Windows 2000 create another Primary partition.
 
STATUS
======
 
Microsoft has confirmed this to be a problem in Microsoft Windows 2000.
 
MORE INFORMATION
================
 
Windows 2000 text-mode Setup uses the following rules to determine the type of
partition to create when you choose to create a partition:
 
 - If no partitions are present on the drive, a primary partition is created.
 
 - If only a primary partition exists, Setup creates an extended partition using
  all unallocated space on the volume, and then creates a logical drive with
  the size you specify.
 
 - If both a primary and an extended partition exist, Setup creates another
  primary partition.
 
************************************************
PSS ID Number: Q138364
Article last modified on 06-03-2001
 
:2000,3.1,3.5,3.51,4.0
 

 

======================================================================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this article applies to:
 
 - Microsoft Windows NT Server versions 3.1, 3.5, 3.51, 4.0
- Microsoft Windows NT Workstation versions 3.1, 3.5, 3.51, 4.0
- Microsoft Windows NT Advanced Server, version 3.1
- Microsoft BackOffice Small Business Server
- Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server
- Microsoft Windows 2000 Server
- Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
SUMMARY
=======
 
During the installation of Windows NT, Setup determines the best partitioning
scheme to use based on the existing partition table entries and where you choose
to install Windows NT. Windows NT Setup restraints restrict the boot partition
of up to 4 GB. The limit may be smaller depending on disk geometry. The actual
value that is used as the limit is whatever Setup believes to be 1024 cylinders
worth of disk space. Sometimes this is 1 GB, 2 GB, or 4 GB, but can be some
other value depending on the make, model, and configuration of the hard disk
adapter in use. This is the amount of space with which the text-mode portion of
the installation can work. From this amount, you can create partitions that do
not exceed 4 GB because the partition must first be formatted FAT and this file
system has a limit to 4 GB.
 
For additional information, please see the following articles in the Microsoft
Knowledge Base:
 
   Q119497 Boot Partition Created During Setup Limited to 4 Gigabytes
 
   Q224526 Windows NT 4.0 Supports Maximum of 7.8-GB System Partition
 
These articles explains rules you should consider before installing Windows NT on
computers that contain large hardware RAID-5 drive arrays if you want to use the
full contiguous capacity of these large arrays after Windows NT is installed.
 
MORE INFORMATION
================
 
When you use a Hardware RAID-5 configuration, it is very important to understand
how Windows NT partitions your drive during Setup in order to maintain maximum
contiguous capacity of the large Array for user data after Windows NT is
installed. Setup follows these rules:
 
Rule 1
------
 
If no partitions pre-exist on the drive, Setup makes the primary partition the
size you specify for Windows NT (up to 4GB).
 
Rule 2
------
 
If a primary partition already exists, and you choose to install Windows NT in an
unformatted free space, you are prompted for the size of the partition to create
(up to 4 GB). After you choose the partition size, Setup creates the largest
extended partition possible (up to 7.8 GB if using a 63 sectors/track, 255
tracks/cylinder translation scheme) and creates a logical drive within the
extended partition of the size you choose. After Windows NT is installed, the
unused extended partition space can be used for additional logical drives.
 
Rule 3
------
 
If a primary and extended partition already exist and free space in the extended
partition is selected, Windows NT creates a new logical drive of the size
specified by you.
 
Rule 4
------
 
If a primary and extended partition already exist and free space is available and
selected outside of the extended partition, Windows NT creates another primary
partition of the size the you choose (up to 4GB) for Windows NT to be installed
in.
 
There are two possible workarounds:
 
 - Prior to installing Windows NT, use MS-DOS FDISK to create an extended
  partition of 250 MB, then create a logical drive of 250 MB within the
  extended partition. When you install Windows NT, select this partition as the
  target to install Windows NT in.
 
   -or-
 
 - Install Windows NT into the first primary MS-DOS FAT partition. After Windows
  NT is installed, run Disk Administrator and create a second primary partition
  of 250 MB. Re-install Windows NT into this second primary partition and then
  delete the first Windows NT installation from the first primary MS-DOS
  partition.
 
EXAMPLE
-------
 
You have four 2-GB drives configured in a hardware RAID-5 configuration for a
total capacity of 6 GB and want a 5.5-GB NTFS partition for user data after
Windows NT is installed. You have MS-DOS pre-installed on a 250-MB primary
partition prior to installing Windows NT and want to keep this intact. You
decide to install Windows NT into a separate NTFS partition and create a 250-MB
partition from free space during Windows NT Setup.
 
Using rule 3 above, Windows NT creates an extended partition of 4 GB, then
creates a 250-MB logical drive within to install Windows NT on. After Windows NT
is installed, Disk Administrator shows the following:
 
   C:   250   MB FAT
  D:   250   MB NTFS (logical drive)
     3.750   GB extended partition space (free)
     1.750   GB Free space
     -----
     6.0     GB total usable space in hardware raid-5 configuration.
 
The problem is that the 2 free spaces cannot be combined to equal the 5.5-GB
partition space wanted for user data.
*************************************************
PSS ID Number: Q277546
Article last modified on 11-19-2000
 
:2000
 

 

======================================================================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this article applies to:
 
 - Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
- Microsoft Windows 2000 Server
- Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
SYMPTOMS
========
 
If you select the FAT32 file-system format when you try to install Windows 2000
on a partition that is 30 gigabytes (GB) in size, Setup may not format the
partition and you may receive the following error message:
 
   Setup was unable to format the partition. The disk may be damaged. Make sure
  the drive is switched on and properly connected to your computer. If the disk
  is a SCSI disk, make sure your SCSI devices are properly terminated. Consult
  your computer or SCSI adapter documentation for more information.
 
   You will have to select a different partition for Windows NT. Press ENTER to
  continue.
 
RESOLUTION
==========
 
To resolve this problem:
 
1. Reduce the size of the primary partition.
 
2. Partition the hard drive.
 
3. Use a Microsoft Windows 95 or Microsoft Windows 98 Startup disk to format the
  partition.
 
STATUS
======
 
Microsoft has confirmed this to be a problem in the Microsoft products that are
listed at the beginning of this article.
 
MORE INFORMATION
================
 
Microsoft has confirmed that this problem occurs on the following hard disks:
 
 - Fujitsu MHL2300AT (30GB)
- IBM DJSA-230 (30GB)
***************************************************

So, Longbow, are you saying that if I have a 4GB partition at the end of my 60 GB hard disk I won't be able to install Win2K on that!?

X-(

Make it a 7.8 max - heck you would have plenty of room elsewhere for additional storage. . .

So, Bev .....

If I get you right, I should be able to install Win2K as follows:

1 - Delete the partition in which I want to install it so that it becomes free space

2 - Create a new primary partition during setup (with size limitations as described above)

and off it goes?

<off topic>
Microsoft is Evil
</off topic>

Pino -
I am going to wrap a T-Shirt around your neck - but yes give it a go.

Yes Caraf,

Do it as explained.
Or if you have Partition Magic 6.x resize your partition the same way.
The begining of the partition must be comprised IN the 7.8 Gb. I hoop this info is correct, have no infos about the exact size limitation.

Or you may install Win 2k on another HD.
Give your e-mail if you want. I will send you an utility to help.
Then we continue here.

Longbow

MS is pretty sketchy on the size limitation on 2K as it is.
Longbow what is the utility?

Pino,

The limitations of 4G and 7.8G apply only to Windows NT 4, not Windows 2000. As long as Win2k (all versions) can get to the boot loader, there should be a problem. The only issues that may be effecting this is (A) if there's a problem with the MBR, the partition itself (a bad beginning sector(s) or the disk.

Warning, do not run fdisk/mbr, as if you do, you'll wipe out your extended partitions!

Now, the only other issue is the number of partitions, as there are limitations here. With this in mind, how big is the overall drive, how many partitions, how big are each and what is or isn't installed in each?

Dennis

Thanks for joining Dew_boy (he does this everyday for a living - so I am going to listen now!)

Hi Dennis,

It's a 60GB drive, with the following partitions:

C: 1.95
D: 2.92
E: 9.76
F: 9.76
G: 2.92
H: 9.76
I: 9.76
J: 9.04

There also is a DVD (K:), a CD-writer (L:), and my old hard disk (M: 4GB) in there

At the moment, H, I and J are empty.

Thanks for your interest!

Pino

Do you have enough partitions Pino? Den will be back soon -

Hi Caraf,

No, i am not absolutely sure :
"In Microsoft Windows NT 4.0, your attempt to restart your computer is unsuccessful because the operating system, located on the hard disk, is within a partition that is greater than 4 gigabytes (GB) in size, or the hard disk itself is greater than 7.8 GB in size."

"NOTE: This behavior does not occur with Microsoft Windows 2000."

Check this link.
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q272/3/95.ASP?LN=EN-US&SD=gn&FR=0&qry=partition%20size&rnk=26&src=DHCS_MSPSS_gn_SRCH&SPR=WIN2000

Do you have a way to move the files from a partition of the beginning to the end of the HDD and install Win 2K on the new empty partition at the beginning ?

Longbow

Well..... FWIW, I did install a second version of Win2K, but instead of installing it in one of the partitions of my 60GB drive, I installed it on my old 4GB HDD..... not really what I wanted.

If all else fails I'll go ahead with that, but if someone can give me a better solution that *does* allow me to install it on one of the partitions, I'd be grateful.

Longbow, I'd prefer to keep stuff like partitionmagic away from my PC..... I've heard too many horror stories....

Cheers

Pino

Caraf_g:
Did you try changing multi to SCSI in boot.ini, as adviced earlier ?.

Hi Pino,

Hmm, I think there's some confusion afoot here. You can't have 8 physical partitions. How many real partitions and how many logical drives?

You can only install Win2k (all versions except Pro) to an actual partition or a logical drive at the root of a partition.

Hi Dennis

LOL - I'm sorry, you're right. I have two hard drives in my PC. A new one, 60GB, and an old one, 4GB

The partitions C: to J: are all on the new hard drive. C: is a primary partition and I guess D: to J: are logical drives.

K: and L: are my DVD player and my CD-writer

M: is a single (primary?) partition on my old HDD

I'm not terribly well-versed in hardware and partitioning terminology so I may have this wrong but I hope that from me describing it like this you'll be able to work out what I should have said.


tonnybrandt, sorry, I read straight over that suggestion. I wouldn't mind trying that, but I've got this nagging feeling that it might not be such a good idea. After all, my HDDs aren't SCSI drives.

Dennis is sleeping now.

Caraf,

Try moving the content of one of the 1st partitions to an empty one to have the place for Win 2K.

Longbow

Pino, based upon what you have posted thus far, you can only install to either C, D or M.

Dennis

So, Dennis, you're saying Longbow is correct then?

Dang.

No, I didn't imply that. Longbow is implying that Win2000 has or may have a drive limitation, which is does not. What I am referring to is how you have your drive partitioned.

Win2k must be in a physical partition or in a logical drive at the root of a physical partition.

"C" is obviously a partition.
"D" is a logical drive, but it is at the root of the second physical partition.
"M" is also a physical partition.

So..... then, does that mean that if you have a PC with one hard disk in it you can only ever make it dual boot, not triple or quadruple or anything else? Or is there a way of partitioning a disk differently.... if so.... how?

Reason I'm asking is because I partitioned the disk first time when I installed Win2K. During the installation process it goes through a partitioning screen but (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think it allows me to create more than one physical partition on a disk.... ?

You can have as many as 4 physical partitions and the number of logical drives is only limited to the DOS schema.

Hi,

I already state that Only NT4 if this limitation
See above "NOTE: This behavior does not occur with Microsoft Windows 2000."
My excuse for my first answer.

I work now with a computer with 4 Windows.
C: Windows 98
D: NT4
E: NT4
F: Windows 2000

At the beginning there are 5 times Windows NT4.
At house i have Win98 - WinNT4 - Win2K.
No problem.

I think the partition you will use when you ask an answer
 is to far of the root.

Have tried to change multi by scsi in the boot.ini, reboot the PC then change back to multi ?

Longbow

Longbow, can you guarantee that if I change "multi" to "scsi" in boot.ini my PC will still boot up? None of my HDDs are scsi drives. Yes, even the 60GB isn't.

Dennis, but how do I go about getting four physical partitions onto my disk? The partitioning software that comes with my Win2K installer doesn't seem to give me the option....

?

Pino,

I did it.

My first partition is FAT
I may always boot on drive C: with tho OS Loader or on my Win98 floppy disk.
Think to have the edit dos command.
I used this tip with NT4 with success.
I had always a problem to boot NT4.

I don't know if your partition is FAT or NTFS.

Longbow

Pino, just use Fdisk on your Win98 boot disk or you can download the latest version from MS here:

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q263/0/44.asp

Just make 4 partitions. eg: let's say you have a 10G drive. When you are asked whether you want to use the entire drive for the first partition, reply no and size the partition to 25%. Repeat the process 3 times. Now you have 4 partitions.

>your Win98 boot disk

<smile> I wouldn't touch that OS with a barge pole....

I can't seem to find a URL for a download for FDisk on that ASP..... plus my disk isn't quite *that* big.... ?

Sorry to be a PITA

Just extract this version:

http://download.microsoft.com/download/Win98/Update/8266R/W98/EN-US/263044USA8.EXE

LOL..... "This update is not designed for your version of windows, please exit"

I just can't win on this one, can I?

X-(

ROFL, hang in there. Just extract it to a floppy, don't try and replace the Win2k version. Are all partitions NTFS, FAT32 or?

Hi Dennis,

I think I may be able to find a correct version of FDisk somewhere.....

My C partition is FAT and very small. All other partitions are NTFS. My first installation was on D: and I managed to install it again on M: although I would have preferred to install it on my 60GB disk instead.

Problem is, I installed the OS on D: and all apps on E:

If I were to repartition I'd probably have to resign myself to having to start from scratch.... but then again, it's worth it.... having the flexibility to install the OS where I want it....

Fdisk sent (w98SE) - now try the suggestions listed above.

Hi Pino,

The biggest problem you're going to have are the NTFS partitions as there is no way to handle those with Fdisk. You might want to consider the latest version of partition magic if you're going to be doing this with any kind of frequency.

well, if I were to start from scratch it wouldn't be a big deal, though, would it? I could just use FDisk to partition it into a number of FAT partitions and then, afterwards, tell Win2K to upgrade 'em to NTFS.

.... and no, I don't intend to do this frequently.... blimey.... once is enough :-)

That'll do..... :-)

Longbow:
https://www.experts-exchange.com/jsp/qManageQuestion.jsp?ta=win2k&qid=20172351

shekerra:
https://www.experts-exchange.com/jsp/qManageQuestion.jsp?qid=20172352

Thanks Pino!

<Puts one foot in front of the other, at an angle, takes off his feathered hat, and bows with a flourish>

You are right Pino.

I do it many times a year ;-)
Thanks for the points.
If i knew you install from scratch !

Everyhing is running, that's the important.

Bye!

Longbow

Longbow - Pino LOVES Microsoft!
Anyway thanks for the points Pinto!

At this point ?
I hate :-(

I never install or reinstall my personal computer.
A repair when needed. That's all.

If i install or reinstall any OS i will be paid for this
 ;-)

At least a complete automated install !

caraf_g: Why not try an online RG (Really Good) version of windows :
http://128.241.244.96/portal/uploads/27000/27549_winrg.swf

Longbow,

Don't forget to visit your question and post your comment. I can't award them to you otherwise:

Longbow:
https://www.experts-exchange.com/jsp/qManageQuestion.jsp?ta=win2k&qid=20172351

Bev, keep telling people I love microsnot and I'll have you for slander.... .muhahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa

tonnybrandt, aah go on then... I'm feeling generous today
https://www.experts-exchange.com/jsp/qManageQuestion.jsp?qid=20172508