Frame question : main frame adjustment in Netscape
People of jury... we hereby condemn Netsatan to the sea ... ashes to ashes dust to dust... :-)
http://geocities.com/radical1414/three4now.html
is where the problem doesn't happen in IE, but does happen in Netscape (4.7). Here's the problem:
The main content frame's code shifts over in Netscrap.
Thats it in a nut-shell.
You'll notice the frame column says 170, and the picture thats in it is 176 width. I have tried playing to the correct numbers and this is what makes IE look good.
All evidence points to the left frame, for when I turned the main frames borders on, you can see the left frame is missing a few pixels in Netscape.
I am now code blind. Help. TIA
RAD {:-()>
http://geocities.com/radical1414/three4now.html
is where the problem doesn't happen in IE, but does happen in Netscape (4.7). Here's the problem:
The main content frame's code shifts over in Netscrap.
Thats it in a nut-shell.
You'll notice the frame column says 170, and the picture thats in it is 176 width. I have tried playing to the correct numbers and this is what makes IE look good.
All evidence points to the left frame, for when I turned the main frames borders on, you can see the left frame is missing a few pixels in Netscape.
I am now code blind. Help. TIA
RAD {:-()>
ASKER
Also my pictures lie on each other (the 6 large ones) Why?
RAD
RAD
I haven't checked everything, but at first glance I noticed you've got the <BASE HREF="..."> tag outside the <HTML> tag. This is causing problems with the page/frames because it's suppposed to inside the <HEAD> tag. Start by fixing that and also check the cellpadding="13" in "three4now_main.html" file - are you sure you want that value (13)? What happens if you change it to 0?
I'll continue looking,
tewald
I'll continue looking,
tewald
May or may not be a fruitless endeavor. I recall having many similar quirks when trying to align things well between frames and viewing them in Netscape (no matter how sharp the code AND I was a Netscape fan at the time!). You'll notice that the misalignment changes slightly each time you resize the window and does so in a random fashion.
-corey
-corey
This is a known Netscape issue. And there is no way around it.
Although the difference may appear random, it isn't. What is actually happening is Netscape reads the width (or height) you set your frame to and the width (or height) of the window. It then works out what percentage your given width (or height) is to the actual window width (or height). And then renders it according to the percentage. Because we are talking high numbers (500, 600, 800, et c.) as relative to low numbers (65%, 78%, 92%, et c.) the pixels become somewhat disjointed. Therefore the percentage can change by 1% but could actually be a 7 pixel change. And therefore, the noticeable jump in frame size.
This is also noticeable when the window is resized because of Netscapes onresize function that is automatically run. It refreshes the page and therefore recalculates the percentages. Nasty. And there is no way around it.
Although the difference may appear random, it isn't. What is actually happening is Netscape reads the width (or height) you set your frame to and the width (or height) of the window. It then works out what percentage your given width (or height) is to the actual window width (or height). And then renders it according to the percentage. Because we are talking high numbers (500, 600, 800, et c.) as relative to low numbers (65%, 78%, 92%, et c.) the pixels become somewhat disjointed. Therefore the percentage can change by 1% but could actually be a 7 pixel change. And therefore, the noticeable jump in frame size.
This is also noticeable when the window is resized because of Netscapes onresize function that is automatically run. It refreshes the page and therefore recalculates the percentages. Nasty. And there is no way around it.
Hey that looks really killer. I tend to agree with dij8. I have tried and tried to get graphic framesets to work in "the devil's window" to no avail.
Which leads me to a question of my own...is it possible to do a browser detect and then do a javascript writeln to write the appropriate frameset for netscape?
also...not knocking at all, but by the way...
it is "grandeur" not grandure.
Jim S.
Which leads me to a question of my own...is it possible to do a browser detect and then do a javascript writeln to write the appropriate frameset for netscape?
also...not knocking at all, but by the way...
it is "grandeur" not grandure.
Jim S.
Hmm... didn't realize the non-randomness, but that makes sense. Good info, thanks dij8.
-corey
-corey
ASKER
Tewald - I can not find reference to the Base tag you speak of. I don't normally use that anyways. As far as the frame(main) being slighty askew in Netsatan... oh well I can live with that...but what about the overlapping pictures? I can fix those right?
RAD
RAD
one word.
Netscape.
Netscape doesn't support frames @.@
When they'll fix it? God only knows.
If anyone knows if Netscape fixed this in 7.0 let me know please =p
(moral of the story? don't use frames)
Tables are the way to go =]
Netscape.
Netscape doesn't support frames @.@
When they'll fix it? God only knows.
If anyone knows if Netscape fixed this in 7.0 let me know please =p
(moral of the story? don't use frames)
Tables are the way to go =]
ASKER
ummm that helped alot... not!
RAD
RAD
But NS doesn't like tables either :P
ASKER
Ok people this isnt helping. We all know netscape sucks at almost everything. This we know. What we don't know is why the table is doing what its doing. Please, postive helpful comments only. If you don't have a solution, please don't comment. Thanks,
RAD
RAD
There is sort of a way around the frames and images lining up in Netscape. But it requires careful thought and painful design. Hopefully I explain this properly. I know it works because I have done it myself.
What you can not do is have images that have colours going across at an angle. They need to be perpendicular (sp?) to the frame. And you need to have images that will have approximately an extra 10 pixels of straight colour to allow for the extra space Netscape may add or subtract.
I have done this myself at http://www.royalmail.com/at_home/pen2paper/postbox/postboxframe.asp?strSection=betterletters&strHead=betterletters&strSubHead=none&strSubHeadAlt=none&strPageFile=betterletters/betterletters.htm
This link is easier than explaining how to navigate through the Royal Mail site to get there. The image that is extended is the dark red/light red squigly bit. The frame finishes directly above the H in "How to write". You won't be able to get the properties of the image because it is a background image. Note though that the point in which the frames meet the colours are perfectly horizontal. Basically it means it is impossible for photo type imagery. you will only be able to do it with basic crossing colours like the link above.
What you can not do is have images that have colours going across at an angle. They need to be perpendicular (sp?) to the frame. And you need to have images that will have approximately an extra 10 pixels of straight colour to allow for the extra space Netscape may add or subtract.
I have done this myself at http://www.royalmail.com/at_home/pen2paper/postbox/postboxframe.asp?strSection=betterletters&strHead=betterletters&strSubHead=none&strSubHeadAlt=none&strPageFile=betterletters/betterletters.htm
This link is easier than explaining how to navigate through the Royal Mail site to get there. The image that is extended is the dark red/light red squigly bit. The frame finishes directly above the H in "How to write". You won't be able to get the properties of the image because it is a background image. Note though that the point in which the frames meet the colours are perfectly horizontal. Basically it means it is impossible for photo type imagery. you will only be able to do it with basic crossing colours like the link above.
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ASKER
Wow people thanks, I will try these solutions out this weekend when I am not working :-) I appreciate the time and effort that was put into the two solutions.
RAD
RAD
I would observe that I owe my understanding of the Netscape frame sizing problem to explanations in posts by dij8, so he deserves credit in my solution.
Ben
Ben
ASKER
Even the style height issue :-)?
RAD
RAD
I would observe that I owe my understanding of the Netscape frame sizing problem to explanations in posts by dij8, so he deserves credit in my solution.
Ben
Ben
Nein .. that is through my own cunning experiments :)
B
B
I didn't actually look at your site because I know the Netscape frame issue. Having just looked at it now I can see an easy fix.
The issue you are having is lining up the vertical cyan lines. When Netscape resizes the frames they are ALWAYS accurate from the top left of the frame. So if you rearrange your frames so that rather than having one across the top and two across the bottom you should have one on the left and two on the right. Padding out the left frame with horizontal colour like I said will compensate for any extra space Netscape gives it. And the two frames on the right will always have the image correctly placed from the left. So therefore they will both line up. That is EXACTLY what I had to do with the example I gave before.
Kind of missed the question about the images over each other. Not sure how??? Nice fix psdie. Real simple.
RAD, you may want to look at your styles again. Mixing styles and <font> tags is kind of against the point. Obviously it works for now but I would suggest redoing all your styles and adding other classes to replace your <font> tags. I also find it very difficult to read the black font on the dark blue background. I suggest going with white or yellow. That's just my opinion of course and not really anything to do with the question. :-)
If you want to split points (if I haven't offended you too much and you decide to give them all to psdie) then go to Community Support (link on the left) and post a 0 point question saying which question and how you want to split the points. They will help you out with that.
The issue you are having is lining up the vertical cyan lines. When Netscape resizes the frames they are ALWAYS accurate from the top left of the frame. So if you rearrange your frames so that rather than having one across the top and two across the bottom you should have one on the left and two on the right. Padding out the left frame with horizontal colour like I said will compensate for any extra space Netscape gives it. And the two frames on the right will always have the image correctly placed from the left. So therefore they will both line up. That is EXACTLY what I had to do with the example I gave before.
Kind of missed the question about the images over each other. Not sure how??? Nice fix psdie. Real simple.
RAD, you may want to look at your styles again. Mixing styles and <font> tags is kind of against the point. Obviously it works for now but I would suggest redoing all your styles and adding other classes to replace your <font> tags. I also find it very difficult to read the black font on the dark blue background. I suggest going with white or yellow. That's just my opinion of course and not really anything to do with the question. :-)
If you want to split points (if I haven't offended you too much and you decide to give them all to psdie) then go to Community Support (link on the left) and post a 0 point question saying which question and how you want to split the points. They will help you out with that.
TQ dij8 .. appreciated.
Ben
Ben
ASKER
Thanks psdie and dij8, I believe everything is ok now. I awarded psdie the total 50 points for part one of his answer, which cleared up the overlapping pictures in Netscape. I will also post a 50 point (free) question in HTML category for dij8 for his frame solution. You all rock! Thanks!
RAD {:-()>
RAD {:-()>
Glad to have helped. I know how long it took me to figure out what was happening with the frames when I did this. Not fun.
ASKER
RAD