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A modest improvement to the current points system

There are lots of discussions about points here, and this thread is about one single issue.

In the question below:

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Software/Server_Software/Email_Servers/Q_28575801.html

the asker asked to disable BCC in Outlook. You cannot do this. Repeat: YOU CANNOT DO THIS.

So Neilsr and myself answer accordingly and eventually got the Good Answer with a "C" grade. Why? The asker is unwilling to accept reality and so punishes the expert for his or her own ignorance.

Solution:

ANY answer proposing less than a "B" (good) or "A" (excellent) should pop up a box that says a Moderator will review to determine if a "C" grade can be given.

Yes, it means more work for Moderators, however:

(a) the current system allow ignorant users to bash experts for no good reason AND
(b) once operational, askers may start to think twice.

Food for thought.
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Rank: Elite

Author Comment

John2014-12-15 09:16 AMID: 138268
I collected a bunch of thoughts here.

If the Asker isn't fit to judge, who is?  <-- I find some askers that lack the ability to understand what they ask or how to evaluate an answer. I have much more issue with (and require patience on my part) with non-expert askers than I do with non-expert Experts.

The Asker assigns the points  <-- And for the reasons above they get it wrong from time to time.

you are honestly working at helping an Asker grapple with an issue, .....  <-- That is what I have tried to do for 6 years straight. We get it wrong occasionally.

So as I noted before and based on over 2,200 contiguous days of answering questions, I normally roll over and play dead at most of the complaints Experts and Askers raise in questions. Not always, just most of the time.
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Rank: Prodigy

Expert Comment

COBOLdinosaur2014-12-15 11:27 AMID: 138281
@zzynx,

If you are insulted by my "rude" so what why do you turn around and insult every Expert who sees points for what they are (artifacts that are of no value except to the points collectors) by implying that they are lying about their motivation?

If you are in love with points an motivated by them go for it.  EE will continue to put out the tasty snacks to keep the ranks of Experts topped up, but if the points disappear tomorrow, A large majority of the Experts would still be here doing the same thing they do now.  Many of us also participate in other help site and small forums where there is no point system or other incentive.  If you can't understand how we are motivated; that is your problem but don' disrespect the Experts who don't share your point-centric approach to helping people.

The value of a point has been so badly distorted by the various changes in valuation that comparing the points of two experts is irrelevant. With the latest change (all question are set at 500 with not other option) the point system no longer exists it is now a questions answered system.  So having eliminated the points as an indicator of difficulty or urgency; we should now move to the grading and make every answer an A so those who cling to the idea that the points are of some value can run up a nice big score and get nice titles to impress their family and friends.

BTW, EE cannot get rid of the points system, because they would no longer be protected by the patent they hold that has the points as a central part of the process.

Cd&
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Rank: Sage

Expert Comment

Chris H2014-12-15 12:49 PMID: 138291
Doesn't matter.  Andrew Hancock will always win.
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Rank: Ace

Expert Comment

zzynx2014-12-16 12:45 AMID: 138398
If you are in love with points an motivated by them go for it.
I once did. Years ago. And I got blamed because of that motivation.
Now the fun is gone and I just try to reach my 3000 points/month.
That one sentence you wrote just took an old wound open.
... insult every Expert who sees points for what they are
Wasn't meant that way. No expert is to blame because (s)he helps people. Whatever his/her motivation is.

but if the points disappear tomorrow, A large majority of the Experts would still be here doing the same thing they do now
I don't agree with "large" and "majority". But since EE won't take away the points system we'll never know.

If you can't understand how we are motivated
I do for sure.
don' disrespect the Experts who don't share your point-centric approach to helping people.
I don't. I have a problem with people who
- disrespect others that do have the points as motivation and
- talk to them from the heights as if they don't deserve any respect since "they're only after the points"  (a)

comparing the points of two experts is irrelevant
How funny. Then EE should be consequent and stop presenting it as if it is. By getting rid of the Expert of the Year event.

those who cling to the idea that the points are of some value can run up a nice big score and get nice titles to impress their family and friends.
You see, that's exactly what I meant in (a) above. Qed.

EE cannot get rid of the points system
...but EE could stop stressing the "Expert of the Year" stuff and the ranking (without removing the points)
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Rank: Prodigy

Expert Comment

COBOLdinosaur2014-12-16 10:34 AMID: 138493
>>>I don't agree with "large" and "majority". But since EE won't take away the points system we'll never know.

Oh but we do know from history.  When EE went bankrupt and was down more than it was up, The "large numbers" worked off of alternative sites set up by members of the EE community to continue the work, and through a co-ordinated effort downloaded the PAQ using screen scrapping apps written by some Experts. While we carried on the point-chaser were out looking for another game to play, because they were never willing to do anything that did not give them points. There were more of us then there was of them, and EE survived.  

We know exactly what will happen with no points.  The point-chasers and game players will mostly move on to other games.  But everyone working without points for an incentive including admins, mods, TAs, ZAs, PEs, and CVs (who already contribute by giving the community many hours of their time every month). We would still have the Question askers, and that number would probably grow because they get answers from those who are doing it because they care instead of chasing points; and it would make training of aspiring Experts easier without the distraction of points and the noise created by those chasing them.

I think the real problem is that you have put your self in this dark little corner where you cannot see the community and thus you do not understand that EE is not the community.  EE is just a web site.  It does not matter how it works or what the business model is.  The community decided a long time ago what is important and what they want to do; and nothing EE can do short of shutting down is going to change anyone except those who don't like the fact that the community in general is not concerned about points.

As for Expert of the year; their are any number of better ways of deciding who that should be based on merit and quality instead of who is the fastest point chaser.

Cd&
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Rank: Genius

Expert Comment

skullnobrains2014-12-29 10:12 AMID: 139699
hi all

sorry john, but i have to strongly disagree with you on this one.

i believe that it is a good thing that folks get to ask for a moderator to review a question and force accept a relevant answer. this is because EE is (among other things) about building a knowledge base, and this makes the answer available to others. as a matter of fact, i'd probably have used the object button much more often if points were not awarded as a general rule in such cases, and i often refrain because i don't want to be seen as bitching for points that are mostly useless to me.

but asking for a better grade is ONLY about bitching for more points. i'd gladly give any number of my own points to anyone who think the moderator's time is not worth more than a few virtual points. we can be IT and care about the virtual world, but it might be good to remember that we also have lives (most of us probably do), families (some of us) and so do the moderators.

btw, EE already has mechanisms such as featured experts and the likes that will let anyone with a little free time harvest a humongous number of points for those who wish to either handle the corresponding load of spam or disable the email notifications and handle follow-ups in other ways

best regards

skull
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