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Black list

Who didn't try to help in a question and got a bad attitude from the author?
In those occasions what you do? You won't answer any more questions from that member, right? So, you all have your own black list stored somewhere?
I don't and sometimes I'm afraid that I'll forget that member name and will try to help him again in the future without knowing that in the past he didn't like my help. Wouldn't be great to have a Black List tool here in EE so we can filter out some member's question?
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Rank: Master

Expert Comment

Netminder2015-02-13 02:41 AMID: 144824
Andy (Ainscow),

Which is the more expensive to EE to lose?  One paying customer who causes work for moderators, admins and annoys experts OR experts who generate income for EE from multiple customers.

No straw men allowed... *grin*... Experts don't generate revenue in the sense that they don't break out their credit cards -- only Askers do that, and without them doing so, there is no EE. That's not to devalue the Experts' contribution; they're the catalyst for everything that drives traffic to the site and attracts the revenue, even if they don't generate it directly. But trying to say one is more important than the other is to oversimplify a problem.

There is at least one paying member of EE who has tied up enough hours of EE employees, let alone those of us who volunteer, that over the course of his career, EE has lost money.
There are who knows how many Experts (current and former) who have chased off paying customers.

That's not opinion; that's fact. Could we ... encourage... all of those people to go find some other site? Sure -- but that's treating the symptom of arterial bleeding with two Kleenexes and four-year-old Scotch tape: it's at best a temporary fix and doesn't solve the real problem.

The problem is that we're (in Internet terms) an ancient community -- and beyond that, we're unique. Our systems set the expectation that an asker will close a question appropriately and fairly, and that in doing so, the people supplying that information will be shown the appropriate gratitude for volunteering their time, knowledge and experience. BUT WE DON'T TELL PEOPLE THAT.

Our favorite Site(s)ThatShallNotBeNamed has over a million questions that don't have answers. There are a gazillion forums out there characterized by the same thing. The asker comes in, gets some comments and might even respond to a few of them, gets his answer and goes on his merry way -- and a few might even say "thanks". But it's not expected that they'll DO one last thing: accept answers -- except at Experts Exchange.

We don't tell askers what happens after they submit their question (we don't even tell them their question isn't likely to get answered if it sucks). We don't tell askers what they're supposed to do when someone responds. We don't tell them that "you can't do that" isn't because someone doesn't know, but rather because someone DOES know. We don't tell them that they're paying for access to Experts that would cost them hundreds of dollars an hour. We don't tell them that they're the one with the problem so they'd better be polite to the people who are volunteering to help them.

Similarly, we don't tell new Experts "the EE way" -- that they're supposed to answer based on their experience, and not a quick search and a link. We don't tell them that they're expected to follow up. We don't tell them that we don't reward effort. We don't tell them that a C grade is appropriate for a shitty answer. We don't tell them to collaborate "because nobody knows everything and you might learn something". We don't tell them that we don't know what causes the light bulb to go on over someone's head, so accepting the Asker's choice.

All of those things should be done by the systems we all use -- the pages people see -- but it's only been in the last year or so that EE has hired people who understand the methodologies for delivering that education. It's only been in the last few months that the people doing that kind of work have even been on board, and that they're scrambling trying to understand this community and how it differs from every other technical help site, let alone other websites in general.

So the changes we know are coming aren't going to happen overnight. But they WILL happen.

N
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Rank: Prodigy

Expert Comment

COBOLdinosaur2015-02-13 09:05 AMID: 144847
>>>There are who knows how many Experts (current and former) who have chased off paying customers.

<rising_2_da_bait>

You are very welcome; it is just part of my service to the community by showing timmy that we don't care if he pays EE.  We don't work for EE, and the free services we provide are worth more that the few dollars they give EE for the privilege (NOT A RIGHT) to access Experts.
</rising_2_da_bait>


We don't need a blacklist; we just need to give idiots a smack in the head.

Cd&
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Rank: Genius

Expert Comment

omgang2015-02-13 09:33 AMID: 144848
<<We don't need a blacklist; we just need to give idiots a smack in the head.>>
Nelson Muntz?

OM Gang
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Rank: Prodigy

Expert Comment

COBOLdinosaur2015-02-13 09:50 AMID: 144849
Whatever it takes to make the relationship clear.
Cd&
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Rank: Master

Expert Comment

Netminder2015-02-13 03:53 PMID: 144876
Cd&,

The bait was not specifically intended for you (one of the reasons I chose my words fairly carefully), but rather to make the point you have reiterated. It's the same thing: we don't educate new users about what they're paying for (and what they're not paying for).

One suspects that you'd be a lot less irritable about your old friends, the Ten Dollar Timmys, if they treated you with the understanding that you're a volunteer who can help them as a professional, as opposed to someone just out of high school sitting in a cubicle at a massive call center.

As much as you cultivate a reputation for being an irascible, antisocial bastard, the problem has never really been you or Timmy. It's that those who have built the infrastructure have never had the understanding of behavior at EE and the complexity of the relationships between user types that make up an old community. Think of it as the differences between a city like Paris versus one like Phoenix.

N
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Rank: Ace

Expert Comment

Geert G2015-02-13 11:46 PMID: 144897
Phoenix ? that's a bird ... isn't it ?
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