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windows 95 shutdown delay or Microsoft arcade 95 lockup problem

Posted on 1997-02-26
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Last Modified: 2013-12-16
originally I had a shutdown problem but I have corrected that, I will except an answer to the arcade conflict
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Question by:jarfly
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by:jarfly
ID: 1744977
Edited text of question
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by:jwilson
ID: 1744978
 I've run into something similar.  If your familiar with the "inerds" of your computer maybe you'll know...are the games run from CD?  If they are, you could check to see if the CD-ROM drive is connected to the sound card...this is sometimes done to save on IDE connections.  Anyway the sound card must be designed to accomidate the exact CD drive you are using.  If you think this may be the problem its only about $10-$15 to get another IDE cable provided you have another connector port available.
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Author Comment

by:jarfly
ID: 1744979
after rereading my question I can't understand how you came to the conclusion that I was using a CD game, and 10 or 15 Bucks for an IDE cable, kinda steep,
The game was installed from 4 floppies and both machines are identical, bought at the same place and time, exactly the same hardware manufactures and setup in both machines.  This is a conflict with a codec and there must be a third device conflicting also.  The Codec, the arcade game pack, and something else, I have reloaded all drivers, Windows, the game itself, and recently I upgraded this particular machine changing the motherboard, processor, CD ROM, case, video card, and all cables, and the problem remained the same, I didn't upgrade for this problem.....  I have changed priorities of the codec's, deleted them physically, checked all software setting, and there are no conflicts anywhere in the system and all hardware and software settings are identical on both machines.  The only difference is one works and the other doesn't.
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by:jarfly
ID: 1744980
Adjusted points to 175
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by:jarfly
ID: 1744981
Edited text of question
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by:drmiler
ID: 1744982
Have you tried installing direct x on the machines??? I had the exact same problem with the SAME games. They didn't work right until I installed version 3 of the direct x drivers.
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Author Comment

by:jarfly
ID: 1744983
yes but it screwed up I Diamond Stealth 3D driver and was forced to install Diamond drivers again, but it didn't work then either.
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by:jarfly
ID: 1744984
Adjusted points to 190
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by:andyb013197
ID: 1744985
Is the arcade package 16bit? And if it is do you have any other problems with 16bit windows games, with sound, under 95?


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by:jarfly
ID: 1744986
no, it is 32 bit, made for windows 95 only, and it work on another machine that is identical.
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by:jarfly
ID: 1744987
just for the record, my shutdown problem was a corrupted dial up server file, it had nothing to do with the arcade problem, the arcade problem has existed for about 6 months, it existed before the computer upgrade.  I've been working on this problem now for about 6 months and have tried just about everything, I am almost sure that the problem is going to be a corrupted file but I have reloaded about 50% of my software and have found corrupted files in the internet explorer, dial up adapter, and I'm not really sure why, I have updated Win 95 with a file that is supposed to cure that problem with large hard drives, I'm still looking for the arcade problem.
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by:stuartc010297
ID: 1744988
Microsoft came out with a hint a couple of months ago..
Resourcs to run some games (particularly dos) were low, and they stated try adding the line
LocalLoadHigh=1 to the system.ini, 386enh section..
Worth a try.....
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Expert Comment

by:daveb012597
ID: 1744989
Done a virus scan lately?  Get the latest definations and software for either Norton or McAfee and check the system out.  Or get an emergency disk from someone who has the Anti-Virus stuff.  There are several virus(es?) targeted specifically to the MS Arcade.
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Author Comment

by:jarfly
ID: 1744990
yes I've done a virus scan, for 6 months I've done virus scans on a daily bases and have all the current updates and have scanned from emergency disk, sorry not a virus, at least not one that Norton will detect and other Microsoft arcade for Windows 3.1 works fine and so does everything else on the entire system, two GB of software and there are no other problem now, the shutdown problem I was having was a corrupted dial up adapter file and I believe that having to power down while in windows because of the arcade problem is responsible for the corruption.
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by:jarfly
ID: 1744991
almost forgot to answer Stuartc, it is a Windows game pack not DOS, however I will try and if it works I will let you know and you can post your suggestion as an answer and I will grade it.
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by:jarfly
ID: 1744992
Adjusted points to 200
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by:Harsh_Bong
ID: 1744993
Does it need DirectX3 installed to work?
I had a netgame called SubSpace which needed DirectX, it always crashed in a similar style, I never worked out why...
If DirectX isn't neccessary, see if it works with directX disabled.
Ive read quite a lot of problems involving crashes under directx, Microsoft have a page of workarounds for it.
Of course, you should consider the question, "Is it worth it?", after all, it is Microsoft Arcade :D
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by:jarfly
ID: 1744994
is it worth it?  Probably not, but that isn't my question.  Direct x, read the above suggestions and comments.  This question has been addressed before and answered before
 
  Please read the question and attempted answers before posting a "answer" this will save you and I both time

This game isn't that important, I am just aggravated by the fact that it doesn't work.  That's why I've been working on and off, to resolve this problem over a 6 month time period.  I am one of this systems "experts" and it just burns me that this problem exists and nothing I have done has corrected it, I'm basically curious if there is an "expert" here that can resolve this problem and I know for a fact, absolutely that it isn't the hardware, game software or operating system, therefore it must be a corrupted file or configuration.  I have reloaded about 90% of the system without success in correcting this problem
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by:jmlohren
ID: 1744995
Just a suggestion, but I have found that on some windows 95 (yes win95) software they don't like it if your sound card is at a certain setting.. I tinkered and messed around for weeks trying to get a dumb game working.  Finally it did, but I had to manually set the card to the settings.
  Is there any difference between your PC and the one that runs it fine? (software wise)  Sometimes other programs can install either dlls or vxds that conflict.  I have seen Microsoft products that look for specific versions of dlls and vxds..  Just and Idea.

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by:jarfly
ID: 1744996
the machines are identical, all hardware is the same manufacture and model, set to the same setting, the software is actually the same software used on both machines, as you mentioned, the one with the problem is used more for games than the other machine, and many shareware programs have been loaded, I have used cleansweep to remove the redundant dll's cleansweep has monitored all installations and between windows 95 and cleansweep sometimes using both these programs have been removed, Windows 95 has been reinstalled several times trying to correct this problem, that should have replaced any corrupted or misplaced files.  The strange thing is that there are over 700 MB of games and 1.2GB of business software on this machine and everything works perfect, I have unloaded everything that isn't on the business machine and its not a conflict between games, even going to the extreme once of replacing hard drives and sound cards between both machine the problem is located somewhere on C. drive in the windows directory or 1 of its subdirectories I've almost ruled out a corrupted file because I've reloaded almost everything.  It is related to the SoundBlaster drivers, the Microsoft arcade 95, and the Microsoft codec, alt 3 combined have this strange problem and after borrowing them from the working system there is no change the last extreme measure was that I zip the entire windows directory, stored it and installed the working windows directory in that machine, problem solved for that game, now to get it working with the correct windows directory, Windows sys is next I'll keep you informed.

Please understand that this game isn't important, my desire for a repair is knowledge of why this doesn't work.  And the points awarded are just too peak interest enough to get some different views
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by:andyb013197
ID: 1744997
You say the hardware is the same ... Does that include down to revision level of the chipset on the Soundblaster card? Were they bought at the same time?
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by:jarfly
ID: 1744998

 Curious question, originally the sound cards were identical but now that you have jogged my memory the sound card was replaced under AST warranty and probably isn't the same now, I do know that it is a SoundBlaster 16 but it is probably about 1 year newer.  This still doesn't explain why the working machines windows directory that I copied works in the defective machine.  But that was before the upgrade, the machine are different now and I can't get by with stuff like that, however it kinda tells me the sound card is ok.  For the record, what were you thinking?
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by:mheacock
ID: 1744999
Why don't you take the sound card out of the machine where the game isn't working and put it into the machine where it is working.  Vice-versa.  Then run the game.  Does that game still work on the machin it used to work on?  If not, then most likely a problem with yor soundcard.

Try this technique with some of the other hardware, drivers, etc.

Make appropriate backups.
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by:billogle
ID: 1745000
I have been through almost identical siuations 4 times and all four were solved exactly the same way.

Each case of _identical machines_ , after searching (over 6 weeks the first time) resulted in finding that the cpu's had different date codes and after working with the manufacturer's slight configuration gliches were found between specific cpus motherboards, sound card's and vidoe cards.  This problem has been esclating to greater heights as the specific components get more comples.  For example using the AMD K5-75, I understand that there are over 20 releases of this cpu with slight varations. One runs with a specific configuration but the next doesn't usless you change something else to a specific release or away from a specific release.  I can assure you that when you buy components for 20 - 30 supposedly identical systems and then find you have 6 cans of worms it is frustrating.  I do not mean to imply that this is a problem unique AMD.  As a matter of fact I have found them the most helpful, and the big I the least.

Each time I was positive that I had narrowed the problem to some glitch in the operating system -- you would think that after the second or third I might remember previous solutions <g>!  But the results have come back the same.

I would recommend that you take the specific chip info for the cpu, video board, and sound card and contact either your reseller, if he is knowledgable, or tech support for the cpu manufacturer.  From experience, I have found that first contact through the net with the manufacturer has sparked enough interest for the big guys to answer an individual such as yourself.

If I may be of further assistance, feel free to contact me.  
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Author Comment

by:jarfly
ID: 1745001

Ok, please listen, both machines were purchased in 1993, they were both 486x25 with 4MB RAM, double speed CD ROM, floppy, nothing really special, over the years both machines have had processor upgrades.  First to 33MHz, then 66MHz, then 100 MHz, on each upgrade the "defective machine" was the first to receive a faster processor.  After updating the processor the old processor was installed in the good machine, then in December the "defective machine" got a major upgrade, Pentium motherboard, Diamond Stealth 3D video card, two WD hard drives, a 12x CD ROM and a Pentium 200 MHz brain this problem I am talking about has existed from the 33MHz speed up to the Pentium monster and has worked fine on the other machine using the exact same processor, when I changed windows directories between machine when they were the same speed everything worked, processors has been changed a total of 5 times and 1 major overhaul, I'm sorry but I except this answer as ligament, maybe someone might have this problem with processor wanna-be's like AMD or Cyrix, all of my processors have been Intel and the RAM chips where true parity, I try to steer clear of potential problems
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by:andyb013197
ID: 1745002
In answer to your earlier comment, I was playing the devils advocate! It appears that my idea is false though, since you got it to work by copying the working windows over the top of the defective one before your upgrade, if I understand you correctly.

BTW, Its a virus, Its a virus! Only kidding, its surprising the level of 'expertise' that sometimes shows its head on this site ....
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Expert Comment

by:cory012297
ID: 1745003
Are you sure nothing is running in the background when you try to play this game.  The task manager should only show the systray and explorer running.  If anything else is running, then this could be your problem.  go to your dos window and type mem /c or mem /d to get a more detailed description of what is running.  Mabey you can find out what memory block this game uses from the manufacturer, hey, it's just a shot in the dark.
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Author Comment

by:jarfly
ID: 1745004
nothing is running in the background, have checked this before loading the game, before running the game, have checked DOS/mem, its ok.  The last thing I tried was making a copy of the original configuration and named it test, rebooted Windows in test mode and disabled everything except the hard drives, it worked, then one by one enabled everything until the problem showed up.  Creative labs SoundBlaster 16AWE32 when disabled the game works, basically back to square one, disabling the sound card disables the drivers which removes the ability to enable sound for the games, so what has that told me?  Nothing I didn't already know.  I am currently examining windows and sys to attempt to find what's different or corrupted, its not the drivers, Codec's, sound card, hardware, game or operating system software, configurations appear to be the same, virus scan says everything is ok,.....whoever answers this question definitely gets an A

Regardless of all I'm tempted to swap sound cards, this makes no sense because the game works with the other machines windows directory, at least it did before I upgraded, now I can't do that because the machine aren't even close now except for the sound cards, keyboards, mouse, and monitor

Any ideas...?
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Expert Comment

by:Jan Fourie
ID: 1745005
hi
from all above is it true that both machines are near identical pentiums,and both have diamond video cards?

Do you have flash bios - and are they the same release ,and are the motherboards identical? The bios can be a real "hidden" problem with such problems!

Does the problem PC have a modem ( and the other?)
If you swop the 2 PC`s soundcards does it make any difference?

Check the problem PC soundcard settings in old dosmode,or with dos boot stiffie - make sure the settings are irq=5,dma low=1,dma high=5 ,address=220 and midi=330 (js=220\220)
THEN make sure that if you boot into windows that you get the same settings in "system"....win95 may allocate any\other settings,but the game calls up or "reads" the card direct ( Plug n Pray`ish")
Do you have any moveable peripherals on th PC (ie Zip)

If you have a modem \ other device,make sure that they DO NOT use com4 - i had similar problems and found the diamond card video address overlaps into com4 settings (i got the info from a friend wrt this,and it worked !!! - i set the modem to com2)

let me know if above helps,then we can step ahead...slowly 8^)
jan

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Expert Comment

by:antoine2
ID: 1745006
I had this exact sort of problem with DIABLO.Do you have a network card? I had to place my sound card in a slot with a lower number then my ISA net card (maybe gives it higher priority?).If not still try all your ISA slots for the sound card
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Author Comment

by:jarfly
ID: 1745007

Concerning the last two comments, I have tried every suggestion and checked everything mentioned, sorry but it's not the sound card, modem, bios, networking card, don't have one, remember one thing, it was bad before the upgrade, identical machines, IDENTICAL, and work with a different windows directory, so rule out hardware, its got to be a corrupted file somewhere, all settings were EXACTLY alike
Thanks anyway for your attempt.
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by:stuartc010297
ID: 1745008
You stated that you installed 2 WD hard drives in this computer 6 months ago..Did you also get the firmware patch from WD.com

There was a very small percentage of drives with a defect that caused file problems in the read / write to the drive..

What's confusing is the resource drain..I've only seen it with IE 3.0, it's a corrupted file that stays open and drains the resoures..
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Author Comment

by:jarfly
ID: 1745009
please elaborate.....I installed another WD drive a 1.6GB WD hard drive about 1 year ago the other upgrades were done in December 86, recently I replaced  the old  WD drive with a larger quantum drive.  The game in question is on the WD drive.  I have had problems with IE3.01 when installing the new game zone I had to reinstall IE before the zone would work.....that's why I was thinking corrupted file..  The answer is no, I haven't used a patch upgrade from WD. this patch upgrade you speak of,what is its purpose?  And do you think it is responsible for this one problem game that appears related to the sound codec?  If so you will receive an A. and I will even increase the points before you put it in answer form.
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Expert Comment

by:mikem
ID: 1745010
Hmm what a fascinating problem..
Just a thought, Have you tried directly copying the files from the working  installation to the other machine ?

Mike
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by:mikem
ID: 1745011
Further to my last comment, I noticed that when you say you removed the soundcard, that the games ran, but without sound.. Have you tried swapping the soundcards over from the working machine to the other?

Mike
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Expert Comment

by:M.E.Pierce
ID: 1745012
I had a similar problem, you mentioned you have a SB16AWE32?

Is it configured to emulate MPU-401? That setting should be in the AWE32 control panel on the start menu(under Device).

There is something about the emulation that messes with the resources(virtual resources aren't shown in the device manager for it.)
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Author Comment

by:jarfly
ID: 1745013
no,it's a SoundBlaster 16 not an awe32, the hard drive suggestion didn't work either, and it isn't necessarily when the sound card is removed that it works, it's when the codec is disabled, and yes I've swapped sound cards and, no fix.

Maybe some extra points will help....like I said, it isn't important it just bugs me and I'd like to know why this is the only software affected
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Expert Comment

by:virgo21
ID: 1745014
How long ago was it you installed win95 ?
Reinstalling win95 very often solve the problems one is experience.
Since you and your friend have same kind of systems it might help just format your boot drive and install win95 from the beginning letting the install program autodetect everything.
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Author Comment

by:jarfly
ID: 1745015
it was installed in December of 95, it has been reinstalled several times for various reasons, none have affected this problem.  Reinstalling from scratch is not an option.  There are over two GB of software on here and many updates and special configurations.  And if this game was that important I might take this task on, but it isn't that important and I really don't think it will fix this problem.  Because everything, yes everything works exactly as intended except this one bundle of games.  Besides I could always install windows on the other hard drive and see what happens first before recking all of my software.  By the way, I have an old hard drive that has windows 95 on it from the original.  And thinking of that this Windows was copied from the original hard drive with   Transx21 intended to transferor windows 95 from 1 hard drive to another.  This could be where the problem is, in windows 95 certain things should be in certain places on the hard drive, although everything is working right this may be where the problem originated at.  In the transferor.
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Expert Comment

by:nedell
ID: 1745016
have you tried disabling the second DMA channel on your sound card. solved by problem with encarta whwn 95 first came out.
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Expert Comment

by:daveb012597
ID: 1745017
Well, I don't know what it is, but I DO know what it AIN'T.

It ain't a directX, or SoundBlaster problem.  And it has nothing to do with any CDROM.

For a wild stab in the dark, are you running OSR2 version of WIN95?  I have found that to be a bit buggy in some other things I have.  Maybe that is it?

GOOD LUCK!
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Author Comment

by:jarfly
ID: 1745018
no osr2
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Expert Comment

by:NIDO
ID: 1745019
JarFly i saw that u are using a Diamond Stealth 3D ..
That Might be the Problem.. the Drivers for that card are old.. and there are no New to get on the net..  
But i know that in Win95 OSR 2  there are some new Drivers that works alot better Whith DirectX and so on...
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Author Comment

by:jarfly
ID: 1745020
sorry its not the video card, the problem existed before this video card, I was using Cirrus logic chipset, exactly like the machine that works, it didn't work then either.  And yes there are new drivers for the card at  http://www.diamondmm.com/
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Accepted Solution

by:
WebDood earned 340 total points
ID: 1745021
Hi.  What a lot of "input" you've received on this question.

After having worked tech support for two (major) game copanies for several years, I can tell you how to go about fixing this problem.

It sounds like you've been tweaking the crap out of your system in order to get this game to work and I'm wondering why since it's a pretty weak collection of games anyway.

Here's the solution:

Rename your Config.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files to get rid of all of the (probably extensive and unnecessarily complicated) device drivers, etc. you're loading before Windows.

If you have installed DirectX3, UNINSTALL it.  (This is not an east task, by the way) and install DirectX2.  DirectX3 is quite buggy and, if it is in fact installed, is most definitelyt the cause of your problems.

Finally, after verifying that DirectX2 is installed, Go to START/ Settings / Control Panel / System / Performance / Graphics / Hardware Acceleration and set it to its lowest setting (all the way to the left).

If all of this doesn't work and you really want to fix this problem, you may e-mail copies of your Config.sys and Autoexec.bat files to "WebDood@Technologist.com" along with your phone number and I'll try to help further.  You must award the points first, though!

WebDood
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