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PNP modem and PNP soundcard conflict

Posted on 1997-03-15
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Last Modified: 2013-12-16
I have an IBM PS/1 486 computer with a non-plug n play BIOS.  I have installed an Orchid NuSound 32 PnP and a Zoom 33.6 Comstar PnP modem.  I have installed both of them and verified that they both work.  Every time I boot up the computer from a power-down, I get an ADD New Hardware Wizard message saying something like (It changes every time):

New Hardware Found----- Joom F.2% #jo$%$

If I click CANCEL, goto Device Manager, and click REFRESH, The modem and soundcard will be recognized and their drivers will be automatically loaded. Everything will work fine and dandy until I ShutDown and turn off the power

However, If I shut down and press CTRL-ALT-DELETE, the system will reboot and Win95 will boot up properly, loading the drivers on bootup.  

I need a way to set Win95 so it automatically loads everything properly off of a cold boot.  I need this information immediately.

I have been told to change the I/O PnP read Port Settings to another I/O address, but that hasn't worked.  Also I cannot override the PNP on either of these cards using jumpers.

Thanx,

Joe Cool
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Question by:Joe Cool
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by:smeebud
ID: 1744784
Go to Add New Hardware and click, it will say next. Then the next box will ask "Do you want Windows to search for your new hardware?'. Choose no then click next. From there it will ask you to select the type of hardware youwant to install. You can pick and choose.
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by:smeebud
ID: 1744785
Joe Cool,
  I forgot to add, when you get to the devices to select, double click on the one ie; CD and a list of manufactures comes up. That is where you refine you installation.
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by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744786
I had previously tried this to load the proper drivers.  You are partially correct.  The drivers are loaded. However, they do not remain as soon as the machine is powered down.  Relook at the question.  All I need is a way to get the machine to detect and load drivers from a cold-boot so it requires NO user intervention.  (Currently the easiest way is to click REFRESH in Device Manager)
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by:drmiler
ID: 1744787
Have you loaded the PnP manager for dos? In a non PnP machine that is an absolute MUST!!!! You should have got one with your sound card.
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by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744788
What PnP manager is that?  Is there one that came with Win95?  I know Intel has one.  I don't think either of the cards were designed to work with another PNP card in a non-PNP machine.  (Note the only two cards in the machine are PNP)
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Expert Comment

by:Lostboy
ID: 1744789
Did you try going into device manager, removing both the sound card and the modem (do both of these at one time without rebooting first) by clicking on remove device. Don't reboot yet, instead close device manager and open the control panel, go to add new hardware and open it, say no to windows automatically fin new hardware and do it manually. Choose modem from the list. Check the box (Don't detect my modem; I will do it from a list.)
Then next, select the have disk option and insert your modem disk. Then select the driver from the list and select O.K. until you get out of selecting. Don't reboot yet, instead repeat this process for your sound card by selecting that in the same list where you selected modems the first time. Then reboot after both are installed... what happens ?
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by:stuartc010297
ID: 1744790
No:
 the PNP dos drivers are part of the sound system disks, there should be one name configuartion manager or simular..

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by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744791
As far as Lostboy's comment:  I attempted this, but as soon as I installed the first driver (the driver for the modem),  the system went ahead and detected the sound card and installed those drivers and set them up properly.  So I decided to shut down, power off, and cold boot.  This brought me back to square one.  (Next time remind me to get an EXTERNAL modem when buying for an older machine :)   BTW, the system did boot up normally when only one of the two cards was installed.  It's making them work together that is the challenge.

As far as Stuartc's comment, I'll have to check on the disks, although I am SURE neither came with a PnP configuration manager , just DOS drivers.
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Expert Comment

by:VictorL
ID: 1744792
I think your problem is the computer find the device but the driver is not setup for it.  You have the right driver setup but you didn't setup for that device that they find.  I mean instead of setup the sound card and the zoom modem driver by add it, you should look for the device that they by don't know what driver should be using.
Go to Win95 remove all the drivers they have for the modem and sound card under device manager, Also check for exclamation icon or unsupport device, if there is any look it up see what kind of device they find than just double click it and give it the right driver by doing have disk or select one from the list.
I hope it take care of the problem.
If you cann't get it to work and your computer is kind of old consider call IBM up ask for a update bios it should be free of charge.
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by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744793
The driver is set up properly.  The sound works fine (once I've clicked REFRESH)  I have tried to get ahold of IBM, but they just want to sell me a service agreement for several hundred bucks (Yeah right).  If you know a way I can get an updated BIOS from them for free, I'd be glad to do it.  I have an IBM PS/1 486.  It is about three to four years old.   AGAIN:  Everything works fine, just not until refresh is clicked in Device Manager.
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by:stuartc010297
ID: 1744794
the " joom"  message it from the zoom modem..as it trying to set up..
there is a conflict some where,... try the resources in device manager, and check the com, dma, and irq settings
or there is a driver conflict..
Is tthere a way to disable the pnp.on the modem and manually set it to com2/ irq3, and disable com 2 in the bios or on the controller?
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by:stuartc010297
ID: 1744795
The "joom" message is from the zoom modem..
It's a driver or other conflict..Check the rescourse address for each in device manager, also check the DMA, Com, and IRQ settings..
Also can you disable the PNP on the modem and manually set it for com2/irq3 and disable com2 on the controller or in the bios?
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by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744796
There is no way to override the PnP on either the sound card or the modem using jumpers.  The "joom" has to be some sort of information overload when the PnP "BIOS" driver of Win95 gets a message from the modem and the soundcard at the same time.  All I need is a way to seperate the two from each other.  I'm going to try to install the Intel Configuration Manager and see if this helps.  I'm also going to try a few other PnP managers (Creative's)  just to see if it might work.  There are no driver conflicts.  The modem is detected fine when it is the only card in the system.
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by:stuartc010297
ID: 1744797
Question:
In the autoexec.bat or config.sys  are either or both placing a load line in these files?
If so you may want to place them far apart from each other (ie one at top, and one at bottom)..being win 95 they probably don't..

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by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744798
I've tried using the dos drivers for either or both.  But as for right now, no, there are no drivers being loaded in the config.sys or autoexec.bat, just a bunch of remarked out statements :)

Note: I tried using the Intel Configuration Manager for PnP cards.  I was entirely unsuccessful, likely because of the fact that the cards must programmed apart before it would detect them.  The ICU driver would just hang on bootup.  I had to reboot and rem it out of the config.sys.  The one time it did work was after it was first installed.  It came from a reboot in Win95, when Win95 had already detected and configured them.  So the ICU driver had no problem telling me what they were.  Oh, well, I doubted that would work anyway.  I just need to get Win95 to refresh automatically the first time on bootup or something.  I'm starting to run out of ideas :)

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by:robpecor
ID: 1744799
When you get them both running, from the warm boot, go into Device Manager.  In the resources for one or both of the devices, set the configuration manually.  Windows 95 will allow you to do this.  So instead of letting Win95 try to figure it out for you, which sounds like the problem, tell Win95 how to do it.  When you do this, you will get a warning, but that is fine.

A quick way to see free IRQ's and other resources, double-click the computer at the top of the device manager list.


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by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744800
I had previously tried this.  It changes it OK, but as soon as the computer is turned off, the settings are dissolved and the problem resurfaces just as before.
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Expert Comment

by:askgary
ID: 1744801
Joe,
Go into device manager and remove both devices. Then, from device mgr, click computer>properties>  make a note of all available irq's.  Next, click the reserve resources tab at the top and reserve all irq's except one for the sound card.  Use irq5 if available.  Power down.  Physically remove the zoom modem from the computer.  Boot up and let win95 query for the new hardware.  It should put the sound card on irq5 since that is the only available irq.  Check device mgr to confirm.  if it successfully set the sound card on irq5, from device manager click computer>properties>then the reserve resources tab.  make irq3 available (for the modem).  Next, power down and install the modem.  Install the modem driver for the zoom from the floppy or \windows\inf....if you use winfax with talkworks, you will have to select a generic 28800 modem with rockwell chip.  
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by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744802
I did as you recommended, and absolutely NOTHING changed.  What was the purpose?
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by:stuartc010297
ID: 1744803
Idea time..
Could they be loading to win95 on boot such that one card is still loading when the other starts to load?

Maybe changing the order or position in the system.ini program.ini etc..I'm thinking if we increased the time for thre sound card  so it is fully loaded before the modem starts to load, we may get past this....





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Author Comment

by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744804
What do you mean by this?  I've been trying to figure out how this would be possible, but I haven't a clue.
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Expert Comment

by:Jan Fourie
ID: 1744805
try to go into "old dos mode" FIRST - then setup each card with its dos software, and note the values - although PnPray - they are "coded onboard - win95 does however take little heed of these settings !!!!!!

once old dos is up n running on both cards, boot into win95
(you could leave references in your config sys to "help" win95",but NOT in autoexec.bat) - but first try with none !

after win95 detects both - CHECK that the detected values are the same as the dos mode values..
Either way DISABLE the use automatic settings in the resource box - and change the values to correspond - monitor bottom box for conflicts...and reboot

once auto settings are off all should be ok ... and if it keeps on re-detecting...say NO to add new hardware...

mail me for further info
good luck
jan
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Author Comment

by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744806
I have already done this.  This doesn't stop Win95 from attempting to detect them both simultaniously.  How can I have Win95 look for the sound card first specifically, then the modem (or vice versa)?
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Expert Comment

by:Jan Fourie
ID: 1744807
joe,i think if they load ok after a second or warm rebooting win95 and all is ok,and they both work ok,then i would try a last stab by removing the modem,and then see if the sound card gets the same re-detection from a first time or cold boot,and if not,then do the same with the modem in and sound card out.

all this will prove is that: if one,or both,still give the error,or only when together - well,you need a PnP bios i guess,cause win95b cannot update the cmos to handshake and pre-allocate their settings,thus the new detection everytime.

i do not know or think of a way to prioritise them in your present win95 detection as they are PnP.....(you did disable "use automatic" settings in "SYSTEM"...i thought that would be your only chance to force win95 to see them everytime???

if at all possible,i would try the cards in a friends PC with PNP bios to ensure you of the viability - but i am pretty sure from all you have tried that it is the answer!




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by:Jan Fourie
ID: 1744808
sorry,in above i have a typo( win95b..) - but win95 or win95b would still both be appropriate in your scenario i suppose!
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by:magigraf
ID: 1744809
After reading carefully all the questions, comments and answers, I would suggest the following approach: Open your machine remove the modem card, and boot your computer. I can see that you would know the rest. Depending on what windows will prompt you check if the sound card is working properly with no conflict. If it's the case, and everything is properly running try to rebbot a few times to make sure no message of "found new hardware" is showing. At that stage you could go ahead and install your modem card. Now if after installing your modem you have the same problems, we would at least have cornered the problem to the Modem or the Sound card if the theory has been the opposite.

Let me know, and we will take it from there.
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by:billogle
ID: 1744810
After refreshing, have you checked the registry to see if the drivers registered?  If they didn't you may have to manually register them.
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Author Comment

by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744811
I didn't know drivers could be registered.  What is the purpose?  I have never heard of drivers needing to be registered.  How can you check to see if they are?  Just re answer and I'll award you the points if it works.

BTW--magigraf: To install the modem, the machine must be off.  This means I must cold-boot to Win95 (OSR2).  When I do this, the machine acts as it always has.
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by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744812
Adjusted points to 180
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by:magigraf
ID: 1744813
You didn't answer my theory ! Yes you should shut down the machine, and remove one of these cards (at your choice) I suggested you start by removing the modem.  It does not make any difference if you are running win95 first release or OSR2. The approach will be the same.  The reason I'm asking you to do this, is to find out if each card alone works or not? If they do work, each ALONE, but do not when they are together, it would immediately mean they are sharing something in common. At that stage we will take care of it when it comes.. O.K.??
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by:rasta11
ID: 1744814
Wow! you are probably sick of these answers.  The only thing that I have not seen so far is any mention of changing the resources of your ports.  You could check your CMOS port settings to make sure 1 and 2 are enabled and auto (if these options are available.)  Then, go into device manager, you should know how by now, and go to ports and try to resolve any conflicts you may have with your soundcard there.  i would also recommend going to each individual device, driver tab, and changing driver not by letting 95 detect, but by selecting unknown device and have disk to force using the setup.inf and drivers supplied by the manufacturers.  Are there other devices in your systemwhich utilize these resources?  Some devices will own resources regardless of what you set the other devices to, and they won't be affected by the conflict.  Does your device manager show any unknown devices?  Theese can wreak havoc when the drivers are not installed.  I would really like to help, I do this kind of trouble shooting almost every day.
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Author Comment

by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744815
Win95 ignores any changes I make to these two items in the registry.  It doesn't matter what the changes are.
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Expert Comment

by:virgo21
ID: 1744816
This dosen't sound like a device driver problem, I'm no win95 expert, but a friend of mine had a similar problem and he solved it buy changing the order of the cards on the motherboard.

I've heard others solving it this way, might not work for you, but try it.

For instance If you have the modem in slot1 and soundcard in slot2, just swap places with the cards.

Like I said might work.

Hope you'll be able to get it working correctly.
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by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744817
I had already tried this... thanks for the attempt though
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by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744818
Adjusted points to 225
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by:WebDood
ID: 1744819
You must explicitly set the cards up via device drivers in your Config.sys before Windows'95 boots.  Also, if the Orchid is using the AMD chipset, give up.  You simply can't have two PnP devices (in particular, one of them a modem) in the same system.

If you'd like, send copies of your CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files to me at "WebDood@Technologist.com" and I'll have a look.

I worked tech support for many years and will try to walk you through a solution.

You've got to award those points first, though!
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Author Comment

by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744820
read the previous answers... this hasnt' worked
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by:Frog042997
ID: 1744821
I didn't take the time to read ALL the comments and answers above, but... I have a Sierra Datawave fax modem.  I had a similar problem.  If your modem or sound card come with a little pnp config utility like PNPCFG.COM, it will let you "lock down" the settings for either card at boot time.  Just set it up properly at some good settings to use, and put it in your autoexec.bat file.  All the utility does is tell the card which interrupt and i/o address (and maybe DMA) channel to use.  This is Windows 95's job also, but some cards do not implement PNP correctly, which is why there's so many people out there with a PNP modem that shows up as two modems under Win95 - one JUST WON'T GO AWAY!  At the least, this will shut up windows 95.  Good luck!
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by:bravado042997
ID: 1744822
Due to length of replies....  ignored...  sorry if I repeat

I would try another sound card? or an external modem.
Borrow them...
Some hardware just doesn't like each other....
And you have a very much obsolete PC on your hands with
newer hardware.

a 32 bit sound card on a non-Pentium?   Unusual order of upgrading a PC you have there.... 8)
Highly rec the CPU/mb next ;)






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by:magigraf
ID: 1744823
Since you don't answer my suggestions of removing one card and trying your system with the other one. Can you feed back your settings on both cards in your (control panel, system, device manager, then properties ) give me all what you can find as settings,) for the modem go aslo to modem in control panel, then modem, then diagnostic, then more info.

We will check their addresses and interupts. O.K.??
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by:WebDood
ID: 1744824
Don't waste my time.

You simply can't set up PNP devices via a non-PNP motherboard.

It ain't gonna work.

The only possible way is to configure the devices through the use of device drivers in your config.sys or possibly through the inclusion of device=DWCFGMG.sys in your config.sys after you've set the cards up via PnPConfig or something.

However, you are obviously someone who thinks he knows everything already!  So what the hell are you asking us for anyway?

You don't know the level of expertise or background of the person on the other end of these messages.

Once again, I say ... don't wast my time.

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by:garna
ID: 1744825
When you first added these devices to your system did the auto-detection and subsequent driver update work OR it didn't work and you "forceably" added new hardware by installing drivers.
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Author Comment

by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744826
I am very sorry for the delay, but I have had to get a new ISP... I only came on through a public kiosk intermittently over the past month

Frog: Neither card includes an executable similar to a pnpcfg.com

bravado:  I wish I could, but I have limited access to different computers.  Also, I no longer have the computer.  I returned it and told them to never turn off the machine  :)

magigraf:  When I had the computer, I could get either card to work seperately fine.  If I had it, I would relay the settings, but I don't.

webdood: Thank you for your time and comments.

garna: I forcibly added the drivers.

Thank You all, and if anyone has any other ideas I would appreciate them.
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garna earned 220 total points
ID: 1744827
Windows 95 must detect and propmpt you for driver disks.  You can't force the issue.  Unitl win95 does that, its hardware table will not be updated.  Check with the makers for ".inf" files.  These can be added to windows\inf directory.  This is the single location that all detect routine work on.  If its updated, it make detect the new hardware inf files, updates it entries, reboot and finaly detect your hardware. Not before.

You have to wait unit support comes out for these files.  You could try memphis.  It hardware support is far superior to win95.
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by:Joe Cool
ID: 1744828
I'll try it out.... hope it works

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