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Win95 (osr2), boot up protection error

Posted on 1997-11-21
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I have Win95 OSR2..
When I first installed OSR2 I wanted to be able to load some stuff high when I rebooted into MSDOS mode so I added the EMM386 line to my config.sys.  Now if I try to rem the emm386 line from my config.sys I get a Windows Protection error when booting up and cannot get into windows.  I can only get there from safe mode.  If I unrem the line everything is ok.  Why can't I remove this line?
I remember with the first release of windows you didn't even have to have a autoexec.bat or config.sys and windows would still boot.  Also, I know that when I first installed OSR2 there was no emm386 line in my config.sys.
My config sys has the himem.sys line, the emm386 line a files=40 line and a Dos=high,umb line.
Also, I tried to remove the config.sys all together and still no bootup..
I am assuming there is something in the registry, tho this is a guess..
Is there a way to be able to boot with the emm386  and without the emm386?

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Question by:Coolers
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Author Comment

by:Coolers
ID: 1752012
Edited text of question
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Expert Comment

by:johnt082197
ID: 1752013
I'm assuming you have, either in autoexec.bat or config.sys, a line putting drivers high. (devicehigh or lh)
Remove the "high" from "devicehigh" and the "lh" altogether. Also remove the line with emm386.exe.
It should work.
But the question is: why would you want to do that?
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Author Comment

by:Coolers
ID: 1752014
Sorry Johnt, but I tried this..  Windows still won't boot without the emm386 line in my config.sys.
I have nothing in my autoexec.bat or config.sys that has a loadhigh or LH in front of it.
There are statements in my dosstart.bat, but I don't believe that is loaded untill I reboot to msdos mode.

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Expert Comment

by:johnt082197
ID: 1752015
dosstart.bat is launched until, while within windows 95, you choose to get back to DOS. You don't necessarily need to reboot.
Anyway, as a test, could you remove everything from config.sys AND autoexec.bat, expect from the "PATH" and "WIN" lines?
What happens?
Also, I asked _why_ you'd want to remove emm386?
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Expert Comment

by:joe_massimino
ID: 1752016
Have you tried to put the DOS only boot configuration in the autoexec.dos, and config.dos files. These, I beleive, only load when you are going directly to dos only.

Also, do you have a Quantum hard drive in that machine?

Also, Here is what Technet says.
SYMPTOMS
========
 
When you start Windows 95, you may receive either of the following error
messages:
 
 - While initializing device <device name> Windows Protection Error
 
 - Windows Protection Error
 
CAUSE
=====
 
A Windows Protection Error means that an error occurred loading a virtual
device driver (VxD) before the desktop is loaded. In many cases you can
tell from the error message which VxD did not load, but in other cases you
may not be able to determine which VxD caused the problem.
 
Windows Protection Errors are generated when any of the following
conditions occur:
 
 - A real-mode driver and a protected-mode driver are in conflict.
 
 - The registry is damaged.
 
 - The Win.com or Command.com file is infected with a virus or is damaged.
 
 - A driver is being loaded from the System.ini file for which a
   protected-mode driver has already been initialized.
 
 - There is a physical I/O or RAM address conflict.
 
 - There are incorrect CMOS settings for a built-in peripheral device
   (such as cache settings, CPU timing, hard disks, and so on).
 
 - The Plug and Play feature of the computer's BIOS is not working
   correctly.
 
 - The computer contains a malfunctioning system cache or memory.
 
 - The computer's motherboard is not working properly.
 
RESOLUTION
==========
 
To resolve a Windows Protection Error, try the following steps:
 
1. Start the computer in Safe mode. If the error does not occur in Safe
   mode, see the following article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
 
      ARTICLE-ID: Q136337
      TITLE     : Troubleshooting Windows 95 Startup Problems
 
2. If your computer is a Plug and Play computer, reinstall Windows 95
   using the following command:
 
      setup /p I
 
   For information about installing Windows 95, please see the following
   article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
 
      ARTICLE-ID: Q129260
      TITLE     : Windows 95 Setup: Description and Troubleshooting Steps
 
3. Make sure that the computer's CMOS settings are correct. For
   information about changing CMOS settings on your computer, please
   refer to the computer's documentation or manufacturer.
 
4. Install a clean copy of Windows 95 in an empty folder. Choose the
   Custom installation option and do not let Setup detect the hardware
   in your computer. Install only a mouse, a VGA video adapter, and a
   keyboard.
 
If the error still occurs, it is most likely caused by faulty hardware.
 
MORE INFORMATION
================
 
The VxD that is generating the error message can be any VxD--either a
default installed VxD or a third-party .386 driver being loaded from the
System.ini file. If you do not know which driver is causing the error
message, create a Bootlog.txt file and check to see which driver was the
last driver initialized. This is typically the driver causing the problem.
 

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Author Comment

by:Coolers
ID: 1752017
Joe, I don't have a previous version of DOS on my machine since I am now using OSR2 with FAT32 installed.  So I don't have a autoexec.dos or config.dos.
I know that windows will boot without a config.sys, since I have done this before.  The problem is that I cannot do this anymore.
Windows95 will load up without the config.sys and load only himem.sys, setver and isfhlp.  I can't get Win95 to load without the config.sys and I believe it is because I added the emm386 line to my config.sys in order to load stuff high when I reboot into msdos mode via the start menu.. (windows loads the dosstart.bat)
If I remove the config.sys from my c drive, when windows loads I get the protection error and I have to reboot into safe mode.
It will load up in safe mode.  So I suspect something is looking for the emm386, I GUESS?  I'm just really puzzled that now I can no longer load win95 without a config.sys.
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Expert Comment

by:joe_massimino
ID: 1752018
Well, I never had DOS either and I have OSR2, but I have autoexec.dos, and config.dos, where do you suppose they came from, if they didn't come from a previous DOS installation?

I am guessing that you can not remove the emm statement because you have something else loading after it that had it available whe it was installed, and now requires it to be present whenever you startup.

What about all the info I gave you on locating your troubles, the articles give you many reasons for your troubles. By rejecting my answer you are suggesting that you have read through it all, and verified that none of it pertains to you.  Is this the case?

I still say that you can have configuration files that load ONLY when you boot to DOS

Here is more information that should help you..

---------------------------------

Windows 95 provides a flexible environment for running MS-DOS – based applications, even those applications that must have exclusive access to system resources. Almost all MS-DOS – based applications should run under Windows 95. For MS-DOS – based applications that need sole access to computer resources, Windows 95 offers MS-DOS Mode.
When an MS-DOS – based application starts in MS-DOS Mode, Windows 95 removes itself from memory (except for a small stub) and provides the application with full access to all the computer’s resources. Before running an application in this mode, Windows 95 ends all running tasks, loads a real-mode copy of MS-DOS, and uses customized versions of the CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files to run the application. After you quit the MS-DOS – based application, Windows 95 restarts and returns to the Windows 95 user interface.
 

Caution   Running an MS-DOS-based application in MS-DOS Mode does not necessarily improve its performance, but it does allow you to run it when it might not otherwise run in Windows 95.

 
To configure an MS-DOS-based application to run in MS-DOS Mode
 1.      In My Computer, right-click the application’s executable file, and then click Properties.
 2.      In the application’s properties, click the Program tab, and then click Advanced.
 3.      In the Advanced dialog box, click MS-DOS Mode.
 
If an MS-DOS – based application, such as a game, performs badly because of insufficient memory or a lack of appropriate drivers, you can try the following:
·      Run the application in MS-DOS Mode.
·      Adjust the amount of memory available.
·      Create a custom startup configuration by modifying the contents of the CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files, either at the command prompt or in the application’s properties.
 
To adjust the amount of memory available to an MS-DOS - based application
 1.      In My Computer, right-click the application’s executable file, and then click Properties.
 2.      In the Application’s properties, click the Memory tab, and then increase or decrease the amount of memory available to the application. For more information about the types of memory, see “Setting Properties for MS-DOS – Based Applications” later in this chapter.
 
To create a custom startup configuration
 1.      In My Computer, right-click the application’s executable file, and then click Properties.
 2.      In the application’s properties, click the Application tab, and then click Advanced.
 3.      In the Advanced dialog box, click MS-DOS Mode, click the option named Specify A New MS-DOS Configuration, and then create a custom startup configuration.
 
 
Note   Windows 95 automatically provides expanded memory for MS-DOS – based applications that require it to run. Windows cannot provide this memory, however, if you include a statement in CONFIG.SYS that loads EMM386.EXE with the noems parameter. When you include EMM386.EXE in CONFIG.SYS, use the ram parameter or use the x=mmmm-nnnn statement to allocate enough space in the upper memory area for Windows 95 to create an EMS page frame. For more information, see Appendix A, “Command-Line Commands Summary.”
 
Tip for Running MS-DOS-Based Games
In most cases, MS-DOS – based games run under Windows 95 with no special adjustments. Most popular games are listed in the Windows 95 APPS.INF file. Games that include a Windows 3.1 PIF file should also continue to perform well. Certain PIF settings are now obsolete, however, because Windows 95 manages them automatically. These settings include foreground and background priorities, exclusive priority, video memory usage, and video port monitoring.
If you run a game that uses graphics modes and Windows 95 fails to run it in a full screen, press ALT+ENTER. To run the game in a full screen every time you start it, right-click the game’s executable file, and then click Properties. Click the Screen tab, and then click Full Screen. You can also use the Properties dialog box to adjust other settings that improve performance. For more information, see “Setting Properties for MS-DOS – Based Applications” later in this chapter.

-----------------------------------------------------
From the Memory properties, you can define the following memory allocation options:
·      Conventional memory, which consists of the first 640K of memory available on your computer.
·      Expanded memory, which can be installed as an expanded memory card or emulated by an expanded memory manager (EMM). EMM software maps pages of expanded memory onto the system’s upper memory area.
·      Extended memory, which is essentially a seamless upward extension of the original 1-MB address space available in the memory of 80286 and 80386 computers. Extended memory always starts at exactly 1024K, where the upper memory area ends.
·      MS-DOS protected-mode memory, which Windows 95 automatically provides as expanded memory for MS-DOS – based applications that require it to run. It cannot provide this memory, however, if you include a statement in CONFIG.SYS that loads EMM386.EXE with the noems parameter. Use the ram parameter when loading EMM386.EXE in CONFIG.SYS, or use the x=mmmm-nnnn statement to allocate enough space in the upper memory area for Windows 95 to create an EMS page frame.
 
Using Upper Memory Blocks (UMBs) and High Memory Area (HMA) are two ways to free conventional memory for use by MS-DOS – based applications, and thus improve performance. In conventional memory, UMBs are the unused part of upper memory from 640K to 1 MB, where information can be mapped to free memory below 640K. HMA is the first 64K of extended memory, where drivers can be loaded to free conventional memo

I also want to suggest that you should be able to run most anything from Win95, what applications are you trying to run in DOS, that you feel wil not run in WIn95?
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Author Comment

by:Coolers
ID: 1752019
Ok guys.. heres some more info.. I think I figured out why but don't know what to do..
The bootlog.txt stops on the ideatapi.mpd file and that must be when I get the Windows protection error.
Now, when I load with the emm386 in my config sys, as you know the system loads up fine, but I noticed that in the bootlog.txt the ideatapi.mpd init and loads sucessfully 2 times!
I do have 2 cd roms connected to my computer.  Is that why it loads 2 times..
BUT, why can I boot fine with the emm386 line in my config.sys?
What is the emm386 doing to make the ideatapi.mpd file load and init ok but it won't when emm386 is not in my config.sys.

By the way, I wanted to remove the emm386 line from my config.sys to check out some programs, and this is how I stumbled on this problem.
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Author Comment

by:Coolers
ID: 1752020
Joe, are your hd's formated in the FAT32?  If so, then how can you run a previous version of dos?  DOS 6.xx won't work with FAT32.  If I remember correctly, before I had OSR2 I did have DOS 6.22 on my computer and I was able to boot to a previous version of DOS via the bootup menu, isn't that how you get a autoexec.dos and config.dos.  I believe so.  Since I don't have another ver of DOS other than ver 7 that comes with OSR2 I don't have an autoexec.dos or config.dos.
The only way I get to dos is via the msdos icon or to reboot to msdos mode via the shutdown menu.
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Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 1752021
Hi Coolers: I would like you to try something please.

1. Use the REM statement in both Config.sys and Autoexec.bat and REM out all lines regarding real mode drivers for your cd rom. OSR2 adds protected mode drivers during install, so you won't lose them unless you boot directly to DOS. Leave EMM386 as is for the moment.

2. Reboot the system and check it.

3. If everything appears okay, try removing the EMM386 line now, and then reboot and check it again.

It sounds as though you have a real more - protected mode driver conflict.

Best regards,
Dennis
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Author Comment

by:Coolers
ID: 1752022
Dew, thanks for the response.. but..

I have no real mode drivers loading in my autoexec or config.sys.
The only reason I ever added emm386 to my config.sys was so that when I "Restart in MS-DOS MODE" via the shutdown menu, everything in my dosstart.bat with a Loadhigh in front of it would load high.
So, I did try to rem out everything but still I get the protection error.  I think I will just have to leave it alone and have emm386 load up all the time.
Thanks again for your efforts..
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Expert Comment

by:joe_massimino
ID: 1752023
Coolers, No, I don't have DOS, and never had DOS on this PC, and I don't run any DOS, or Win16, or applications.  

Now, your problem is not mysterious. You feel you have it all under control, yet you can't fix it.  

If you can't start-up with your config.sys renamed so it can't be found, then you have something else loading that requires it, because Win95 does not require it. Do we agree on this?

How many places can drivers be loading into the system during boot?

It would be a lot easier if you just list all the software you have installed on the system. I have a pretty strong feeling that you have something installed which either should not be, or was installed wrong.

You never did answer the question, "what were you trying to run in DOS which you thought would not run in a Win95 DOS session?

The ideatapi loading two times should not be your problem, but you can rule it out by commenting one of them out.

After you list all the software you installed, you are likely to get a better idea of what caused your problem.
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Expert Comment

by:smeebud
ID: 1752024
Cooler. 1st, you do have Dos, it's just not appearent. Disk Opereating System is what windows is Built on. Windows is just another application, Dos is the foundation it built on.
OK.
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS
This, i'm sure you've seen and may have forgot all about. give it a go. If it does not solve your problem, post your results. We have a lot of options for EMM386.EXE

Luck and let me know:)
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Expert Comment

by:joe_massimino
ID: 1752025
I think we were referring to one of Microsoft's stand alone DOS products, at least I was:)
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Author Comment

by:Coolers
ID: 1752026
Ok, your right, I do have dos but not a DOS directory.  Guess thats what I mean, I only have the command dir in windows.
The emm386 line is in my config.sys but I added it awhile back.
I wanted to remove it cause I was getting a out of memory error when trying to run a prg through windows.  I was assuming this was the problem, guessing would be a better word.  Anyway, thats how I came to discover that I can no longer boot up without the emm386 line in my config.sys.
I even tried to remove the config.sys from the C drive all together and I get the protection error right before the cdrom light would generally come on.
I have a cdrom also connected to a creative labs soundblaster, and I think this is where the problem is.  I just can't figure out why I now need emm386 to boot up when before I didn't have it in my config.sys and I could boot with no problems.
Thanks..
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Author Comment

by:Coolers
ID: 1752027
Joe, its not that I have it all under control, it just bugs me that now, unless I have the emm386 line in the config.sys I cannot boot up to windows.
I was not trying to run a dos prog, its a windows prog that keeps getting an 'out of memory' error.  I thought that maybe the emm386 was causing it.. That's how I came to discover that I can no longer boot up to windows without emm386 in my config.sys.
I have a cdrom connected to my secondary ide port and a cdrom connected to my creative labs soundblaster ide port. I added the second cdrom to the sb ide port well after I had added emm386 to my config.sys.
I think this is where the problem lies..
As far as drivers loading up, I can't tell you, your the expert.
All I know it that there are no real mode drivers loading up in my autoexec or config.sys..

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Expert Comment

by:smeebud
ID: 1752028
No feedback from you on this:
---------WINDOWS\COMMAND is you dos directory.
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS
This, i'm sure you've seen and may have forgot all about. give it a go.
If it does not solve your problem, post your results. We have a lot of
options for EMM386.EXE

Luck and let me know:)

0
 
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Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 1752029
Coolers: Since you've layed out what the system make up is, could you copy and paste here both your config.sys and autoexec.bat files so we can see them.
Thanks, Dennis
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Author Comment

by:Coolers
ID: 1752030
Smeebud..
Ok.. I understand what your saying..
I do have that line in my config.sys..  I wanted to remove it.
Basically, I want to know..
Why can't I boot up without the config.sys anymore..
We all agree that win95 does not need the autoexec.bat or config.sys to boot..
Please see my next comment, I posted my config.sys and autoexec.bat..
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Author Comment

by:Coolers
ID: 1752031
Ok.. heres my autoexec.bat
rem SET CTCM=C:\WINDOWS
C:\PROGRA~1\MCAFEE\VIRUSS~1\SCANPM.EXE C:\
@IF ERRORLEVEL 1 PAUSE
rem @ECHO OFF
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 E620 T6
SET SOUND=C:\VIBRA16
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E MODE:0
SET CLASSPATH=C:\java\classes\vrml\;%CLASSPATH%
rem C:\VIBRA16\DIAGNOSE /S
rem C:\VIBRA16\AWEUTIL /S
rem C:\VIBRA16\MIXERSET /P /Q
PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\NC;C:\UTIL;C:\BAT;c:\vibra16;D:\PAGEMGR;
SET TEMP=e:\scratch
Set TMP=e:\scratch
:END

Here's my config.sys..
Device=c:\windows\himem.sys
device=c:\windows\emm386.exe noems
dos=high,umb
files=40

My question.. why can't I remove the emm386 line and still be able to boot?  Better yet, why can't I boot without the entire config.sys anymore..
I used to be able to boot up fine without a config.sys, then I needed to load stuff high when win95 processed my dosstart.bat after I would shutdown and restart windows in ms-dos mode via the shutdown options in windows95.

I believe Joe has hit on something, he said that something has attached itself to the emm386 and now if I remove it from my config.sys, win95 will not boot and I get a protection error.
The bootlog.txt stops when it gets to the ideatapi.mpd which I believe is a protected mode driver loading up for my cdrom drives.
If I boot up with the config.sys as it is above, everything is fine and the bootlog.txt goes much further than the ideatapi.mpd line.

Thanks again guys..

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Expert Comment

by:joe_massimino
ID: 1752032
Do you have a Gateway 2k PC?  That Vibra16, may not be PlugnPlay, it requires specail PnP drivers to get it to work. Maybe it's not the same Vibra16 I worked with a few months back.

At what line does the failure occur, and what is the exact message you get?


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Author Comment

by:Coolers
ID: 1752033
No I don't have a gateway its a home built computer..
I have a Soundblaster AWE and it is not plug and play..
I don't have a failure in my config.sys or autoexec.bat.

My computer loads up fine with those lines.. its when I remove the emm386 line I get a windows protection error and looking at microsofts order of boot doc.  Its after my config sys and autoexec load up..

The exact error is Windows protection error you have to reboot your computer..

It seems to be right when the ideatapi.mpd is loaded, but I don't know where it gets this from.. Whatever windows reads when it starts to load virtual device drivers.. I guess..

I think I should just leave it alone.. and keep emm386 in my config.sys..
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Accepted Solution

by:
joe_massimino earned 100 total points
ID: 1752034
OK, Let's go back to part of one of my (not read very carefully) replies.  I am going to post this as an answer for the second time.  This is what Micorosft says the answer is, and granted there is no sure fire solution to this sort of error, it at least points you in the right direction.  Read this very carefully, and reject it if you like, but I will not post any more replies to this.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SYMPTOMS
========

When you start Windows 95, you may receive either of the following error messages:

- While initializing device <device name> Windows Protection Error

or

- Windows Protection Error

CAUSE
=====

A Windows Protection Error means that an error occurred loading a virtual device driver (VxD) before the desktop is loaded. In many cases you can tell from the error message which VxD did not load, but in other cases you may not be able to determine which VxD caused the problem.

Windows Protection Errors are generated when any of the following conditions occur:

- A real-mode driver and a protected-mode driver are in conflict.

- The registry is damaged.

- The Win.com or Command.com file is infected with a virus or is damaged.

- A driver is being loaded from the System.ini file for which a
protected-mode driver has already been initialized.

- There is a physical I/O or RAM address conflict.

- There are incorrect CMOS settings for a built-in peripheral device
(such as cache settings, CPU timing, hard disks, and so on).

- The Plug and Play feature of the computer's BIOS is not working correctly.

- The computer contains a malfunctioning system cache or memory.

- The computer's motherboard is not working properly.

RESOLUTION
==========

To resolve a Windows Protection Error, try the following steps:
1. Start the computer in Safe mode. If the error does not occur in Safe
mode, see the following article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
ARTICLE-ID: Q136337
TITLE : Troubleshooting Windows 95 Startup Problems

2. If your computer is a Plug and Play computer, reinstall Windows 95
using the following command: setup /p I

For information about installing Windows 95, please see the following
article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base: ARTICLE-ID: 129260
TITLE : Windows 95 Setup: Description and Troubleshooting Steps

3. Make sure that the computer's CMOS settings are correct. For
information about changing CMOS settings on your computer, please
refer to the computer's documentation or manufacturer.

4. Install a clean copy of Windows 95 in an empty folder. Choose the
Custom installation option and do not let Setup detect the hardware
in your computer. Install only a mouse, a VGA video adapter, and a keyboard.

If the error still occurs, it is most likely caused by faulty hardware.

MORE INFORMATION
================

The VxD that is generating the error message can be any VxD--either a
default installed VxD or a third-party .386 driver being loaded from the
System.ini file. If you do not know which driver is causing the error
message, create a Bootlog.txt file and check to see which driver was the
last driver initialized. This is typically the driver causing the problem.

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Author Comment

by:Coolers
ID: 1752035
Yeah.. Thanks.. Merry Xmas!
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