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Step by step installation of OSR2 with dual boot in WfW3.11

Posted on 1997-12-12
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Last Modified: 2013-12-16
We have a PC without any W95 on it.

We want to add W95 OSR2 on it but with dual boot
in such a way that in Dos/WfW mode nothing
at all has changed AND all data will be shared
between the 2 OS

Could one give a step by step procedure ?
We heard about W95boot...

Regards,
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Question by:PhL
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by:j2
ID: 1752447
just so you know: data can be shared, but many applicatiosn can not. (since they have to install stuff in the system settings)
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1752448
PhL: The OSR2 version of Windows 95 cannot be dual-booted with prior versions of DOS or Windows for Workgroups. As a matter fact, the cannot reside in the same partition on the same hard drive. When any of the Windows 95 versions are installed, it destroys the MBR (master boot record). The only way this could be achieved would be with a new separate partition for OSR2 and then use a boot manager such as System Commander or Partition Magic (and I'm not sure that OSR2 will work with Partition Magic) If you need articles relevant to this, let me know and I'll post them here. The retail version of Windows 95 will upgrade earlier versions DOS and WFW, however OSR2 will not. Best regards,
Dennis
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by:Yin
ID: 1752449
A way this CAN be done is to install W95osr2 as normal with the exception that you choose another 'windows' directory. The default from w3.11 is 'c:\windows' and you can then choose to install w95 in ie 'C:\win95' then you can press F8 att the start of w95 and choose to boot the previous OS and then use your W3.11 There is a way to make this Bootmenu for w95 to always come up without pressing F8 at boot. One easy way is to use TweakUI from microsoft to make theese settings.

Good Luck
//Yin
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Author Comment

by:PhL
ID: 1752450
It should be possible !

W95boot is able to make OSR2 work as the retail version !

The point is what about the DOS...

Will it be destroyed ?
Need I two DOS directories ONE for 6.22 and one for 7.10 ?
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by:WinDude
ID: 1752451
PhL: Yes it is possible and I have done it.  Only thing is that you have to make sure your hard drive is FAT16 cause this process will not work on FAT32 partitions, and since Win98 will force you to use FAT32 it will not work with it, although the author of W95boot.zip is working on it :)

dew_associates: pay attention here, you could learn something.

PhL:  Install DOS 6.22 and then Install WFW311 into a directory named \WIN311 or something different than \WINDOWS.  Make sure that your autoexec.bat points to win.com in the \WIN311 directory.  When you install OSR2 let it install to \WINDOWS.  The instructions for fixing the dual boot problem and a link for W95boot.zip are here: http://www.compuclinic.com/osr2faq/

As far as Application sharing, you will have to install each application twice.  Once for each operating system so that the .DLL's etc will get copied to the \SYSTEM directory of each operating system.  If you have problems with an app not working... look in that apps directory for .INI files that might have paths set to one or the other operating system directory.
You might also need to add the line BootMulti=1 to the OSR2 version of MSDOS.SYS to enable "Boot to previous operating system".

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by:dew_associates
ID: 1752452
PhL: My original post stands as written, as you will no doubt experience the same thing as many others have as you move down the road with 6.22/Windows for Workgroups and OSR2 in the same partition.

As WinDude, had you done your home, maybe you would have noted for PhL the caveats that Sean Erwin has pointed out in the past with regard to the procedures you so casually dictate as successful. Sean's information at his former site at MyDesktop.Com was quite extensive before starting his own site, however the issues that have arisen regarding these Os's residing on the same partition have indeed risen sharply and Sean has removed some of the procedures from the current pages. Since you are obviosly a relative newbie, you might want dig deeper into the windows architecture and you'll see some reasons why putting these three in the same partition is doomed to failure. Some of us rely on our computers to run businesses, maintain records and actually get something accomplished and haven't the time to play on a computer like you, or sort out a problem when something crashes. I'll glady listen, and if you have something to teach I'll be glad to learn. Thus far, however, you have only shown what you have gleaned from third partys without out any real world testing. Your suggestion that, " If you have problems with an app not working... look in that apps directory for .INI files that might have paths set to one or the other operating system directory" is evidence of that. Had you acquired any knowledge at all, you would know that Windows 95 has very little reliance on ini files, and instead employees api's to perform most of these tasks. Last  but not least, your telling PhL that, "You might also need to add the line BootMulti=1 to the OSR2 version of MSDOS.SYS to enable "Boot to previous operating system"" shows you have no clue of what your talking about, as if you did your statement would be definitive rather than maybe!
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1752453
Sorry for the grammar PhL, it's 3am and it really incenses me and other professionals here when someone disseminates misinformation only to have someone rely on it only to have to rebuild their system and recreate their work. I and my staff have been there many times helping clients rebuild everything from desktops to server systems that have crashed as the result of someone's bright ideas. Most of the competent techs here test most if not all of what they offer or suggest here. It's obvious that WinDude has not. Simply put, doesn't it make sense that if you have written an application that will allow users to boot multiple OS's on the same partition on the same hard drive that any one of a number of software houses would capitalize on that idea. It would be a true solution to those who need the features of DOS 6.22, WFW, NT, Windows 95 and 3.xx, to name a few. I have wasted enough space here on a non-issue. Be very careful if you choose WinDude's suggestion, as you may find your self in a black hole that you cannot easily escape.
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by:magigraf
ID: 1752454
PhL...

Reading accross all these posts and the challenge put from Windude against dew_associates and as a professional in the computer business, I will have to give credit to what Dew is saying.  I'm not saying it won't work, but I would say that you are dooming yourself into many problems.

Just for the record , an article in Windows Magazine was addressing this issue about having ( Dos, Win3.x, Win95, Win NT 3.51, and Win NT 4.0 ) all together with multi boot function.  That article was showing the procedure of installing one after the other, and warning about Fat32 etc... (without including partition magic in the issue)

In summary, unless you really want to sacrifice a unit for "Testing Purposes", I would stand by NOT opting for Windude advise.

Regards to all
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by:ckezema
ID: 1752455
I have to agree with Dennis and Magigraf....do not try to dual boot OSR2...you will run into alot of problems...(and after checking out Win95boot, I sure wouldnt trust it with a primary machine...)

Do you absolutely need osr2?  You could just use the original version of Win95 with the patches available on the microsoft web site...then you could dual-boot with no problems....The only real big difference in OSR2 is fat32..and you wouldnt be able to use fat32 anyways if you were to try to dual-boot...

just a suggestion...

Conan
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1752456
Thanks gentlemen, it makes research solid advise worth it! I bow to my peers!
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Author Comment

by:PhL
ID: 1752457
I got 2 divergent good answer  (I unsure which to choose)...
I will unlock the question for enable a third answer.

I want to share DATA not application i.e.
DOS, WfW and W95 have to act as if they were alone !

Where win DOS 7.x be put by OSR2 or W95 ?

Remember I spoke about a STEP by STEP procedure...

Thanks to all
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Author Comment

by:PhL
ID: 1752458
Adjusted points to 300
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1752459
PhL: I can give you a step by step method to do this, but to do so you will need two things, a new partition for windows 95 and a boot manager, such as Partiton Magic, Windows NT or System Commander (listed in order of preference). Since I have used all three I am familiar with their peculiar characteristics. There is no manner in which to have all three reside on the same hard drive and work independently, and Windows 95 (any version) must boot from drive "C", which will destroy the master boot record for Dos 6.xx and/or WFW's without a boot manager.
Let us know what you wish to do!
Dennis
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Accepted Solution

by:
Daniel Van Der Werken earned 300 total points
ID: 1752460
Dew Associates is correct.  OSR2 was designed for OEM preinstalls only.  It wasn't designed for dual boot installations.  If you install OSR2 on a new machine, by default you will not be able to boot to MS-DOS.  If you do boot to MS-DOS, you will lose the OSR2 boot capability.  I know, I've done it.

Refer to the Microsoft KB article:

OSR2 Hangs After Booting Previous Operating System            
ID: Q155364
------------------------------------------------------
The information in this article applies to:

 - Microsoft Windows 95
 - Microsoft Windows 95 OEM Service Release 2
------------------------------------------------------

SYMPTOMS
========

After starting your previous operating system (by pressing F4 when you see the "Starting Windows 95" message, or by choosing Previous Operating System from the Startup menu), when you exit the previous operating system session, your computer stops responding (hangs) when you restart the computer.

CAUSE
=====

This problem occurs with Windows 95 OEM Service Release 2 (OSR2). Windows 95 OSR2 is designed to be preinstalled on new computers only, and cannot boot back into Windows 95 from a previous operating system.

RESOLUTION
==========

To enable the computer to boot Windows 95 OSR2 again, the boot drive mustbe made bootable with the Windows 95 OSR2 Emergency Boot Diskette. To do this, follow these steps:

1. Insert the Emergency Boot Diskette in drive A and restart the computer.

2. At the command prompt, type the following line:

      sys c:

3. Remove the boot disk and restart the computer.

STATUS
======

Microsoft has confirmed this to be a problem in Microsoft Windows 95 OEM Service Release 2 (OSR2). An update to address this problem is now available, but is not fully regression tested and should be applied only to computers experiencing this specific problem. Unless you are severely impacted by this specific problem, Microsoft does not recommend implementing this update at this time. Contact Microsoft Technical Support
for additional information about the availability of this update.

MORE INFORMATION
================

Because OSR2 is preinstalled on new hard disks, there is no option to start the previous operating system on the Startup menu. However, if you format the hard disk, install MS-DOS and then Windows 95 OSR2, and then boot the previous operating system, you experience the problem described in this article. Booting a previous operating system is unsupported in OSR2.

If you need to reformat the hard disk for any reason, use the Emergency Boot Diskette.

If you absolutely must do this:

1.  Get the update referred to in the article.  I don't recommend it, but get it if you absolutely must do this.

2.  Install MS-DOS and then WFW 3.11.

3.  [I've installed Win95 and OSR2 about 200 times or more, but I've never proceeded to do this particular thing, so I'm not 100% sure of the following.  You may have to experiment some].  Install OSR2.  Boot to a command prompt and copy over the files from the update.  You may need to re-sys the drive with the updated SYS.COM.  I would probably do that.  I

4.  Reboot to Win95 OSR2.  Reboot and press F8 when it states "starting windows".  Boot to "old operating system".  Reboot to Win95 OSR2.  You should be okay.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1752461
Dan, very nice! But why post what other techs here already know when you see we are waiting for a response from PhL?
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by:Daniel Van Der Werken
ID: 1752462
Seemed like he wasn't getting the answer he wanted, and no one specifically mentioned the update from Microsoft.  Everyone's talking third party boot solutions (which of course may work but aren't necessary).

I also wanted to ensure WinDude was properly rebuffed.  Eeeya! I actually installed OSR2 and booted to the "previous operating system" once, and I knew better!  I didn't think, and I never make system disks.  Oh well, I've installed Win95 over 200 times, I can install it again.  <grin>

Plus, I didn't know I was breaking any netiquette rules by posting a follow-on.  Sorry about that.
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by:magigraf
ID: 1752463
Dan7el..

Everyone is free to post whatever he wants, it's up to the person who asked the question to say his final word.

Regards
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by:dew_associates
ID: 1752464
Dan: The update you referred to is not available for public consumption. MS decided not to release any unverified program updates. I still feel that the best way to handle this issue is with a boot manager as noted above.
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by:Daniel Van Der Werken
ID: 1752465
Not true.  If he calls and asks for the fix specifying the KB article number, he should get it.  

However, I perceive a we're going to butt heads soon.  Let's not.  Your suggested solution of using a third-party boot manager is superior to the unverified bootdisk update from MS.
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Author Comment

by:PhL
ID: 1752466
Thank for all from anybody,

I see now way to split the points to everyone that helped !

I agree that using a boot manager would be nice
but I'm afraid the drives C: and D: will be swapped
(do they ?)

Using the regular version should be OK if there was
an easy way to get all the patches on a CD !

What about booting with a floppy disk to go into 6.22
and from hard disk to go OSR2 (or preferably vice versa) ?

Regards,

0
 

Author Comment

by:PhL
ID: 1752467
Thank for all from anybody,

I see now way to split the points to everyone that helped !

I agree that using a boot manager would be nice
but I'm afraid the drives C: and D: will be swapped
(do they ?)

Using the regular version should be OK if there was
an easy way to get all the patches on a CD !

What about booting with a floppy disk to go into 6.22
and from hard disk to go OSR2 (or preferably vice versa) ?

Regards,

0
 
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Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 1752468
PhL: If you were to use Windows NT Boot Manager (obviously this requires you to use NT with Win95) there's no risk of a swap between "C" and "D". If you were to use Partition Magics Boot Manager (this kit has a lot of usable features) there are no risks either, just follow the directions and you'll be up and running in an afternoon. System Commander, on the other hand, can be quirky and the documentation is not as clear as it could be.

Using either NT or Partition Magic, you could easily put Dos 6.22, WFW and Win95 (either version) in separate partitions and boot into any of the environments without crossover.

To have 6.22 and Windows 95 in the same partition, you would have to use the retail version of Win95. You would not need to boot from a floppy as the retail version accommodates this.

If, however, you want 6.22 and OSR2, you will have to put OSR2 in "C" in the first partition and create another partition for 6.22, however that partition would not be bootable and would have to be accessed through a floppy boot.

Hope this helps,
Best regards,
Dennis
0
 

Author Comment

by:PhL
ID: 1752469
Again thanks !

I will close this question by saying the last answer average...

In fact, it bring me a new fact to my knowledge !

If I could I would have given B to the three answers for
different reasons !

My decision is wait another 3 weeks for I will have no more
internet access for this time and check weither the official
MS patch is public...

I surely will ask some simple clarifying question and you all
will be able to reply
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