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WINS workgroup machines invisible in Network Neighborhood

I have a problem with my Network Neighborhood. When I click on it it searches for all the computers currently running in my workgroup, but than shows only some of them, not all. I can't even see myself.
If I go by search/computer I CAN find a specific computer and than explore it normaly (than it appears in Network Neighborhood..) works for my computer too.

Some of the guys on the network told me that they can't see my computer untill the search for it too.

I have seen computers with same problem as mine, and yes, I have LM anounce set to yes.

My config:

Windows 95 OSR 2.1 DUN 1.2 Winsock 1.1. I have P166MMX, with 48 RAM and connect to the internet via 33.6 modem.
I use public WINS server at LOCALNET (204.245.163.2) and I have set it as both primary and secondary server (MS suggested solution)..
I use both TCP/IP and NetBEUI protocols to connect and have logon to network option checked..

It looks like this is eather bug in Windows or I didn't set up the networking correctly.

Regards,

Damir

I have encountered this problem a few times before, but I cannot remember the exact steps to remedy it.
1) Make sure that you only have ONE protocol bound to your network card. IPX/SPX only. Remove any unnecessary protocols, ie. NetBeui, netbios, TCP/IP, etc..
Generally speaking, you will only need to have TCP/IP bound to your dial up adapter.
2) if you do need to have more than one protocol bound to your Network card, make sure that only your IPX/SPX is set to be the default protocol.
The reason may be because each computer is using a different set of default protocols. When it searches for other computers, it only searches in it's default protocol unless you specifically search for other computers. Then it will search under other protocols.

See if this helps,
Joel

ASKER

Joel,

I'm using TCP/IP to connect to the internet so I can't simply unbound it from the network adapter.. I tried using only one protocol at a time, each of those three protocols.
To me it looks more probable that Net BEUI should be the protocol to use when connecting to the WINS servers shouldn't it.. ( searched in MS Res. Kit Help for explanation on each protocol features and basic usage... IPX/SPX is MOSTLY used in MS Netware Networks Client..)

Besides, you first suggest me to unbound all protocols (including TCP/IP) than not to unbound TCP/IP..

Do you know how WINS is working.. it is not searching computers only for it's default protocol, it works in completely different way, my computer doesn't search for other computers, it asks WINS server for list of computers currently running on it.. it has nothing to do with my default protocol...

Thanks for suggestions, but unfortunately this doesn't help.
Hope someone can help me becuse this is killing me.. MS tech support as usually didn't reply at all..

Damir

ASKER

Adjusted points to 146,5

If you are using your modem to connect to the internet, Why are you binding TCP/IP to your NETWORK CARD?

This is the way it should look:
============================
Client for microsoft networks
Network Interface Card
Dial Up Adapter
IPX/SPX-compatible Protocol -> Network Interface Card
TCP/IP -> Dial Up Adapter
=============================
TCP/IP Only needs to be bound to your DIAL UP ADAPTER, ANY OTHER PROTOCOLS THAT ARE BOUND TO THE DIAL UP ADAPTER, REMOVE THEM!
IPX/SPX is the only protocol you need to have bound to your NETWORK INTERFACE CARD, any other protocols are USELESS and CAN be the source of your problem.
UNLESS
There is something your are not telling me such as you are running special legacy applications that require NETBEUI/NETBIOS these protocols need not be bound. This go's for all computers on the network.
TCP/IP only needs to be bound to your network card if you have DIRECT INTERNET ACCESS via an ISDN / T1 type connection.

NOW,

There are problems with network connectivity, and this is just step one. If this does not take care of the problem, I will tell you how to enter into the registry and modify the necessary settings.

Joel

ASKER

Sorry, we had an misunderstanding.. I don't have Network Card installed in this computer, This is my home comuter and it has only 33.6 modem which is used for connecting to the internet.
I have TCP/IP and NetBEUI protocols binded to the Dial-Up Adapter (well to ge honest I have PTPP installed so it installed some other protocols such as MS Network Monitor Driver) which is also binded to Dial-Up adapter.. Now I have two Dial-Up adapters listed: fisrt standard and second Dial-UP (VPN Support)..

Hope I clarified a bit...

Damir

I see, I thought you were connecting to your computers on a LAN, a problem which I have experienced & solved, whereas this is over a WAN. Using DUN.
THIS is a problem that I have experienced as well, however I have never found the solution. (I just searched for the computer, found it, then went on my merry way)
I'll look around for you, let you know what I find.

ASKER

I have tried uninstaling all the protocols except TCP-IP and dial Up adapter.. again no effect...It is strange that some computers in my local WORGROUP are displayed and others are not.. is it possible that windows has some kind of limited table for displaying them?
(10 min. later..)....now it has gone even worse... I can't see any computers in my WORKGROUP..I have to click network neighborhood and than select my WORKGROUP..even than it sometimes doesn't work.
I have a friend with standard Win95 (not an OSR) and he has no such problems..

If you have any idea at all it would be welcome.. (OF course I can always make a shortcut to the computers I use frequently but what's the point of dynamic WINS servers than...

I have tried DUN upgrade and Winsock Upgrade from MS, nothing helped... perhaps I should ask for an downgrade.. it would probably works...

Damir

P.S. If it is about points I can add more if necessary..

you have to make sure shareing printers and filies are enabled and also you have to right click on your hard disk and you will see sharing change setings to shared as and you will see yourself and also everybody will see you

ASKER

JBURGHARDT, you're offending me with such reply. I wouldn't even call it an answer.. aren't you embaraced to post something like that?

I'm not a computer novice, if I can judge by this post you posted I know much, much more than you do.. so please, do not post and lock my question with this stupid suggestion.. if you want the points you have to earn them, and this certainly is not the way..

Damir

To jhrelgeson: I have tried removing all protocols and adapters except TCP Ms Network Client and Dial-Up..still won't work...
Is it possible that server distributes the invalid or uncomplete list?

ASKER

Adjusted points to 146.5

ASKER

I didn't belive that it was possible to add only .5 point to the question value.. crazy... It looks like this would be the craziest amount of points in the history of E.E...

In the FILE AND PRINT SHARING item in the Network Control Panel, do you have Browse Master disabled? If not, disable it. Especially with a dial-up connection, it takes a long time for the different browse lists on a network to become coherent. If your computer thinks it's a master then it will be confused for a while after you connect to the network.

If this is not the answer, please provide more info about what you are dialing into. Is is an NT server? RAS Server device? Win95 DUN server? etc...

ASKER

I know what browse master is.. and it is disabled, when enabled on dial-up over internet than it renders all machines (except itself) invisible..
Actually I tried this before and just for a while I was able to see both myself and most of WORKGROUP, but than windows starts using my computer as browse master and after some time only my computer appears in WORKGROUP..

No it is nothing so obvious, I work as an network administrator myself so I'm aware of most of problems that could appear, this is not something obvious, I belive that my network settings are correct.

I do not dial into this WINS server, I dial to my ISP (it has an UNIX dialup server, not sure, think it runs on Solaris..) and than when connected I log on to the public WINS server that exists on LOCALNET (see http://www.localnet.org/http/msnet.htm? for all informtions on that WINS server).
Here is nbtstat...
C:\WINDOWS>nbtstat -n

Node IpAddress: [195.29.233.45] Scope Id: []

NetBIOS Local Name Table

Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
VLADY <00> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <00> GROUP Registered
VLADY <03> UNIQUE Registered
VLADY <20> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <1E> GROUP Registered
DAMIR <03> UNIQUE Registered

Here is traceroute to the WINS server:
TraceRoute: 48 data bytes to localnet.org [204.245.163.2]

1:Rcvd pkt type 11: [195.29.233.3] ? in 128 msec.
2:Rcvd pkt type 11: [195.29.233.1] ? in 132 msec.
3:Rcvd pkt type 11: [204.189.128.137] mix-serial2-6.Boston.mci.net in 308 msec.
4:Rcvd pkt type 11: [204.70.2.33] core-fddi-0.Boston.mci.net in 242 msec.
5:Rcvd pkt type 11: [204.70.4.25] core3.WillowSprings.mci.net in 533 msec.
6:Rcvd pkt type 11: [204.70.1.198] ameritech-nap.WillowSprings.mci.net in 300 msec.
7:Rcvd pkt type 11: [198.32.130.65] chicago-nap.acsi.net in 313 msec.
8:Rcvd pkt type 11: [206.222.97.12] louisv-ky-1-a12-0-1.acsi.net in 308 msec.
9:Rcvd pkt type 11: [206.222.97.11] lexing-ky-1-lo0.acsi.net in 364 msec.
10:Rcvd pkt type 11: [206.222.102.25] tysons-va-1-s8-0.acsi.net in 438 msec.
11:Rcvd pkt type 11: [206.222.102.74] ? in 339 msec.
12:Rcvd pkt type 11: [207.97.14.105] s2.mclean.clark.net in 366 msec.
13:Rcvd pkt type 11: [207.22.111.14] s0-vc14.mclean.clark.net in 333 msec.
14:Rcvd pkt type 11: [207.196.82.5] ? in 349 msec.
15:Rcvd pkt type 11: [204.245.163.1] router.localnet.org in 361 msec.
16:Rcvd pkt type 0: [204.245.163.2] localnet.org, 48 bytes in 419 msec.

TraceRoute Statistics for 204.245.163.2
16 packets transmitted, 16 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 128/327/533

Hope you have some solution.. if oyu need more info ask me..

P.S. Is it possible that I do not have enough space reserved to display all hosts info (MS has suggested something like this but only on a very large LAN-s.. this is ome kind of a LAN..) but why are some computers visible, and some are not? Why sometimes computers that were visible are now unvisible..

Damir

This isn't an answer but I'm going to suggest that your network speed over the modem isn't fast enough to support the amount of traffic your "query" generates.
I'm not a expert on this angle but what about the possibility of a router blocking a certain type of packet and you are only seeing those machines that were creating traffic while your machine was "watching" for a few short moments. If you were directly connect you could see all the traffic all the time an update dynamically but in your case your traffic is being routed.
If it were a "memory" type problem then your list of nodes should never exceed X number of machines (not likely).
Hope this helps someone find an answer or jogs their memory.

ASKER

Alan, I think you might be on the right track.. I have considered that myself... only thing that would not confirm that solution is that there are machines running on even slower network and being able to see the entire Workgroup normally..

About the router problem.. hm, it sounds like it is possible, but I would need to confirm that.. perhaps you know what type of packets should I look for.. I'm not sure what would that be because I can use my upper ports normally, I could check for it if I knew what to look..

Do ya think it might help to specify a router instead windows using default router on the net..

I hope this might help, this looks like the best idea so far on this problem.. I will rise the points too..

Damir

Here's more background data...
C:\WINDOWS>netstat

Active Connections

Proto Local Address Foreign Address State
TCP vlady:1060 tboltz.localnet.org:nbsession ESTABLISHED

C:\WINDOWS>nbtstat -n

Node IpAddress: [195.29.233.54] Scope Id: []

NetBIOS Local Name Table

Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
VLADY <00> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <00> GROUP Registered
VLADY <03> UNIQUE Registered
VLADY <20> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <1E> GROUP Registered
DAMIR <03> UNIQUE Registered

C:\WINDOWS>netstat -a

Active Connections

Proto Local Address Foreign Address State
TCP vlady:0 VLADY :62701 LISTENING
TCP vlady:1033 VLADY :43132 LISTENING
TCP vlady:1034 VLADY :27806 LISTENING
TCP vlady:1066 VLADY :12522 LISTENING
TCP vlady:1039 VLADY :40157 LISTENING
TCP vlady:1060 tboltz.localnet.org:nbsession TIME_WAIT
TCP vlady:137 VLADY :52295 LISTENING
TCP vlady:138 VLADY :4167 LISTENING
TCP vlady:nbsession VLADY :34888 LISTENING
UDP vlady:1033 *:*
UDP vlady:1039 *:*
UDP vlady:nbname *:*
UDP vlady:nbdatagram *:*

C:\WINDOWS>netstat -n

Active Connections

Proto Local Address Foreign Address State
TCP 195.29.233.54:1060 204.245.163.4:139 TIME_WAIT

C:\WINDOWS>netstat -r

Route Table

Active Routes:

Network Address Netmask Gateway Address Interface Metric
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 195.29.233.54 195.29.233.54 1
127.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 1
195.29.233.0 255.255.255.0 195.29.233.54 195.29.233.54 1
195.29.233.54 255.255.255.255 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 1
195.29.233.255 255.255.255.255 195.29.233.54 195.29.233.54 1
224.0.0.0 224.0.0.0 195.29.233.54 195.29.233.54 1
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 195.29.233.54 195.29.233.54 1

Active Connections

Proto Local Address Foreign Address State
TCP vlady:1060 tboltz.localnet.org:nbsession TIME_WAIT
TCP vlady:1085 mail4.geocities.com:pop3 ESTABLISHED

c:\windows\netstat -s
IP Statistics

Packets Received = 300
Received Header Errors = 0
Received Address Errors = 0
Datagrams Forwarded = 0
Unknown Protocols Received = 0
Received Packets Discarded = 0
Received Packets Delivered = 300
Output Requests = 362
Routing Discards = 1129468704
Discarded Output Packets = 0
Output Packet No Route = 0
Reassembly Required = 0
Reassembly Successful = 0
Reassembly Failures = 0
Datagrams Successfully Fragmented = 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation = 0
Fragments Created = 0

ASKER

Alan, I think you might be on the right track.. I have considered that myself... only thing that would not confirm that solution is that there are machines running on even slower network and being able to see the entire Workgroup normally..

About the router problem.. hm, it sounds like it is possible, but I would need to confirm that.. perhaps you know what type of packets should I look for.. I'm not sure what would that be because I can use my upper ports normally, I could check for it if I knew what to look..

Do ya think it might help to specify a router instead windows using default router on the net..

I hope this might help, this looks like the best idea so far on this problem.. I will rise the points too..

Damir

Here's more background data...
C:\WINDOWS>netstat

Active Connections

Proto Local Address Foreign Address State
TCP vlady:1060 tboltz.localnet.org:nbsession ESTABLISHED

C:\WINDOWS>nbtstat -n

Node IpAddress: [195.29.233.54] Scope Id: []

NetBIOS Local Name Table

Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
VLADY <00> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <00> GROUP Registered
VLADY <03> UNIQUE Registered
VLADY <20> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <1E> GROUP Registered
DAMIR <03> UNIQUE Registered

C:\WINDOWS>netstat -a

Active Connections

Proto Local Address Foreign Address State
TCP vlady:0 VLADY :62701 LISTENING
TCP vlady:1033 VLADY :43132 LISTENING
TCP vlady:1034 VLADY :27806 LISTENING
TCP vlady:1066 VLADY :12522 LISTENING
TCP vlady:1039 VLADY :40157 LISTENING
TCP vlady:1060 tboltz.localnet.org:nbsession TIME_WAIT
TCP vlady:137 VLADY :52295 LISTENING
TCP vlady:138 VLADY :4167 LISTENING
TCP vlady:nbsession VLADY :34888 LISTENING
UDP vlady:1033 *:*
UDP vlady:1039 *:*
UDP vlady:nbname *:*
UDP vlady:nbdatagram *:*

C:\WINDOWS>netstat -n

Active Connections

Proto Local Address Foreign Address State
TCP 195.29.233.54:1060 204.245.163.4:139 TIME_WAIT

C:\WINDOWS>netstat -r

Route Table

Active Routes:

Network Address Netmask Gateway Address Interface Metric
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 195.29.233.54 195.29.233.54 1
127.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 1
195.29.233.0 255.255.255.0 195.29.233.54 195.29.233.54 1
195.29.233.54 255.255.255.255 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 1
195.29.233.255 255.255.255.255 195.29.233.54 195.29.233.54 1
224.0.0.0 224.0.0.0 195.29.233.54 195.29.233.54 1
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 195.29.233.54 195.29.233.54 1

Active Connections

Proto Local Address Foreign Address State
TCP vlady:1060 tboltz.localnet.org:nbsession TIME_WAIT
TCP vlady:1085 mail4.geocities.com:pop3 ESTABLISHED

c:\windows\netstat -s
IP Statistics

Packets Received = 300
Received Header Errors = 0
Received Address Errors = 0
Datagrams Forwarded = 0
Unknown Protocols Received = 0
Received Packets Discarded = 0
Received Packets Delivered = 300
Output Requests = 362
Routing Discards = 1129468704
Discarded Output Packets = 0
Output Packet No Route = 0
Reassembly Required = 0
Reassembly Successful = 0
Reassembly Failures = 0
Datagrams Successfully Fragmented = 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation = 0
Fragments Created = 0
Received Sent
Messages 0 9
Errors 0 0
Destination Unreachable 0 9
Time Exceeded 0 0
Parameter Problems 0 0
Source Quenchs 0 0
Redirects 0 0
Echos 0 0
Echo Replies 0 0
Timestamps 0 0
Timestamp Replies 0 0
Address Masks 0 0
Address Mask Replies 0 0

CP Statistics

Active Opens = 23
Passive Opens = 0
Failed Connection Attempts = 0
Reset Connections = 21
Current Connections = 0
Segments Received = 180
Segments Sent
Segments Retransmitted

UDP Statistics

Datagrams Received = 111
No Ports = 9
Receive Errors = 0
Datagrams Sent = 132

Hope this helps a bit in slovnig my problem..

Damir

ASKER

First comment is uncomplete, a line broke while uploading...

Excuse me for not reading everything above, but I did seet that you are not on a LAN, and that you dialup to get to your network.
If this is correct, then you should use only one protocol. I prefer to use TCP/IP, but Netbeui could work most times. I use TCP/P because I have to use Telnet, and I like to use FTP over modem connections because Netbeui doesn't work well if your prone to getting poor throughput.
As for the original problem of not seeing some of the other computers on the network, well, that may because of protocols also, are you all using the same protocols? Your dialup, is only using one protocol, it doesn't try one then the other.

I suggest you use TCP/IP on dialup, install a LMHOSTS file on the client, and possibly all clients if your not using a DNS server.

ASKER

I tried deleting all the protocols one by one.. except that I'm on a WAN network over WINS so I can't install lmhosts file, also we dial-in so we get a dynamical IP addresses... I use TCP-IP protocol too, besides I use WINS so NetBEUI is suggested too, even if I use two or more protocols I don't have any problems (read the alandc last comment I think he might be on the right track..)

I think I have suplied enough data above, so please if anybody had the simmilar situation and might have a solution I would be gratefull.

Damir

If you use TCP/IP you can use an LMHOSTS file, it will work fine with your WINS service. LMHOSTS is for your TCP/IP protocol, if you are getting a TCP/IP address when you connect, you need a naming service for TCP/IP, so if you don't have a DNS server, then LMHOSTS, or HOSTS is the only way to go. In any case, you will not hurt anything by making the LMHOSTS file, it is only used by TCP/IP, and will not interfere with WINS, or Netbeui.
I have a complete understanding of what you are doing, and a good feeling for why it is not working.

When you dial-in, you get a DHCP address from your server, you are now using TCP/IP, your Netbeui is not doing anything at this point, at least not through the dialup. Dialup will use only one protocol to connect, not all that you select. If the server also has all protocols supported, you may get a message about a failure to establish a suitable protocol, one protocol, not two, or not three. Select TCP/IP only, and install the LMHOSTS file, or use NETBEUI only, and your problems will start to vanish. The protocol you select should be based on your network, and the applications you intend to use.

ASKER

Joe, try reading all the above messages!

I have LMHOSTS file, but it's primary purpose is to link computer name with static IP address. (MS RK "· The LMHOSTS file is used for name resolution when a Windows Internetwork Name Service (WINS) server is not available to resolve NetBIOS computer names to IP addresses.") I can't use it because most of the computer connecting to this WINS server are on dynamic IP's ..that is the whole point of WINS. Do you know anything about WINS??! I'm network administrator myself and been working with UNIX networks on my university for over 4 years so I know how to set up the network. Now I'm maintaining the Windows based networks for few companies here in Zagreb so I'm familiar with the network settings, so do not suggest the obvious solutions..

I have both LMHOSTS AND HOSTS FILES CREATED but this is not the point..

Also I have both primary and secondary DNS Servers set-up and set correctly, and have WINS server set too, I have already tried removing all the protocols and installing them one by one (one at the time), that doesn't help at all. Besides I need TCP/IP to connect to the internet so it looks like that solves this question..

Please If you want to help and earn the points read the whole discussion because you seem to suggest the things that have already been sugested, also you're missing the important facts.
1. I CAN see SOME computers in my Network Neighborhood, but not all of them,
2. I can't see my computer (when I just open network neigborhood or refresh it, or when run "net view" from prompt) which means that I'm not correctly informed from WINS server about computers that are currently connected and sharing resources over it, I only want to know why and how to solve this problem!
3. When I click Find..computer and enter name of any of the computer I can't find when normally trying to refresh or open network neighborhood and click find it is found and I can normally acces it, it works for my computer too. So it is not the protocols problem (otherwise I wouldn't be able to see any computers at all or wouldn't be bale to connect at all..)
4. I use TCP-IP protocol and PPP connection to dial in to my ISP and I connect to public WINS server TO SHARE DISKS AND OTHER RESOURCES OVER IT!!!

Hope you'll read all the discussion - that might give you complete view of the situation and help you help me.. If you need more diagnostic data from my network just ask (I have provided some basic data in the earlier message..)

Thnx.

Damir

Damir, I read your entire message. I still think your problem is with protocols, not just the protocols on your PC, but possibly the protocols used on the browse masters. There is a utility on the resource kit CD, at least it was on the 3.51 resource kit, and it will show you who the browse masters are.
I think the browse masters are the PC's showing you what machines are on the network, not WINS. So WINS may be working fine, but it is the browse master PC's that you need communication with. There are several messages you could get if you do not have the proper protocols to browse the network, but if you have more than one protocol, and some PC's don't have one of the same, you will not get any messages about not being able to browse the network, the symptom would be to not see one or more PC's. Yet, when you try to connect with them, it wil work fine. Find your browse master's, check the protocols, and binding on those PC's. Compare your network setup, including binding order with a PC which is working perfectly.
A router could be a problem if you had to use it to get to the browse master. What is the path to the browse master, does it pass through a router, what type of router are you using, is it passing only IP. What protocols are configured on your dialup server, is it set to allow full network access, what protocols are setup on the dialup server?
If you find any of this not to your liking, just ignore it. I'm not trying to offend you, insult you, or cause you to loose sleep. Joe

ASKER

Joe, I don't have the entire 3.51 resource kit, I have only 95 res kit and as much as I know there's no such util on it.. If you could provide me with the program name so I could find more data..

About the router problem, I checked "use default gateway on remote network" checkbox in the dial-up connection TCP/IP settings that's all. No I don't use a router on my network (probably, my ISP does, it has to..).

About the dialup server, I don't know what protocols are set up (not all of them certainly) as much as I know it supports PPP and SLIP/CSLIP dial in, and TCP/IP protocolI don't think that my ISP blocks certain type of packets if that's what you mean..

I'll try looking more into these questions and will post more data (probably later tonight..)

Joe, thanks for help, I was a bit jumpy..

Damir

here's my route table:

Route Table

Active Routes:

Network Address Netmask Gateway Address Interface Metric
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 195.29.225.229 195.29.225.229 1
127.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 1
195.29.225.0 255.255.255.0 195.29.225.229 195.29.225.229 1
195.29.225.229 255.255.255.255 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 1
195.29.225.255 255.255.255.255 195.29.225.229 195.29.225.229 1
224.0.0.0 224.0.0.0 195.29.225.229 195.29.225.229 1
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 195.29.225.229 195.29.225.229 1

My current IP is 195.29.225.229
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default gateway: 195.29.225.229
DHCP 255.255.255.255

This is from WINIPCFG....

While in WINIPCFG click on MORE and tell me what you have for WINS address/s. So it would appear that you are using the default gateway address of your dial-up server, do you know what that is?
Even though you have Netbeui installed, your connection to your server is through TCP/IP, and TCP/IP will not be used for the browse fuction, so, the only PC you would see under network neighborhood would be your own. If you remove NEtbeui, you will get a message about not being able to browse the network.

If you do not agree with this, please tell me why so I may investigate deeper.

Joe

ASKER

Primary and Secondary WINS servers:

204.245.163.2 (this is a solution suggested by MS; if have only one WINS to enter it as both primary & secondary)

If you look more carefully you would see that gateway address is the same as my IP address, so it would appear that I'm using myself as a gateway..

MY IP: 195.29.233.21
Gateway: 195.29.233.21 (but even If I disable this function, no changes occur)

It doesn't matter if I have NetBEUI installed or not.. It uses NetBIOS resolution over TCP/IP so if I remove NETBEUI from the protocols I would still be able to browse the network. AND if I browse the network I DO NOT SEE MY COMPUTER IN ANY CASE!!! I CAN SEE SOME OF OTHER COMPUTERS BUT NOT ALL OF THEM IN EACH CASE, NetBEUI INSTALLED OR NOT!!
Only time I menaged to see myself was when I set BrowseMaster to enabled, than I saw myself and other computers, but after the first refresh all the other computers vanished.. I could see ONLY my computer.. (nothing in the network neighborhood eather..)

Damir

ASKER

Breakthrough, if I DISABLE I'm not able to browse the network... I can ONLY see "Entire Network" but If I click it it gives me a error message "Unable to browse the network" "Network is not accessible!!"

I disabled everything else (except TCP/IP DNS and WINS) so I think I ruled out that anything else might be responsibile for this.. just "use default gateway on remote network" is this telling you anything?!
I think that now we're about sure that browse masters are the problem, only thing is how is it possible that I can see some computers and not see others.. (it even happens that I can sometimes see some computers and sometimes not..) what happens when I search for the specific computer, how can I than find it, isn't this request sent to the browse masters too, how is it possible that than I can find them and when I browse I can't find them..

Damir

ASKER

Yeap, missed the most important.. I DISABLED ""use default gateway on remote network" under TCP/IP settings... Always loose something..

Damir

Connecting to another PC to use shared resources does not have anything to do with browse masters, or WINS. Here is what Microsoft says about browsing. Also, you do need Netbeui installed along with TCP/IP in order for a WFWG PC to browse a network. Your gatway address will be the same as your IP on a dialup session, this is normal. There are two articles here, the second will help you narrow it down if the first doesn't help you.
----------------------------------------------------------------
SUMMARY
=======

This article explains how browsing over a wide area network (WAN) works
in a domain and a workgroup.

MORE INFORMATION
================

The PDC of a WAN domain that spans subnets acts as a domain master browser
server. Each subnet in that domain has its own master browser server,
which
sends master browser announcement requests to the domain master browser.
On
receipt of a request from a server, the domain master browser replies with
a remote NetServerEnum API, collects the servers from that master, then
merges that list with its current list. This guarantees that the domain
master browser server maintains a complete list of domain servers. When a
client remotely sends a NetServerEnum API to the domain master browser
server, the domain master returns to all servers in its browse list.

WAN browsing support is available only in a domain environment among
Windows NT and Windows NT Advanced Server machines. If a domain contains
at least one Windows NT Advanced Server machine, you can browse that
domain. A subnet that has only Windows NT workstations running Browser
services can browse the entire contents of that domain.

To guarantee that the master browser for each subnet can access the PDC,
a domain's PDC must be listed in each client's LMHOSTS file. To guarantee
that the PDC can request the local subnet's list from the subnet master
browser, the TCP/IP transport must cache client addresses for some amount
of time. In addition, lists of domains retrieved by the master browser
have only the domains that are occupied by other master browser servers
in that domain.

Windows NT or WFW workgroups cannot span multiple subnets. Workgroups
can view only other workgroups on the local subnet.

Here are some conditions under which browsing does not work:

1. Computers in a remote subnet cannot be seen by clients in a Windows NT
or WFW workgroup. However, if there is a Windows NT on the workgroup,
the workgroup administrator can configure one or more of the Windows
NT workstations as "Configured Master Browsers," then add those
computers in the remote subnet to the LMHOSTS file.

2. You cannot browse remote subnets with only WFW clients, because
the WFW browser is not WAN-aware.

3. When browsing, you cannot see an isolated workgroup or a domain that
is on a subnet with no machines in the current domain.

For example: Suppose domain A spans 3 subnets(S1,S2 and S3). PDC for
domain A is on S1. S2 has a BDC for domain A. S3 has an NT machine that
is a part of domain A. S3 also has a few machines that belong to domain
B, the PDC for which is elsewhere.

Now, when the browse master of S3 (NT wksta) sends the list of servers
in its local subnet to the PDC of domain A, it also sends a list of
domains in its subnet that includes domain B. So PDC of domain A has a
list of domains that has domain B listed in it. When browse master of
S2 gets the browse list from PDC, it gets the list of domains as well,
and that includes domain B. So it knows the existence of domain B. But
for a client (on S2) to get the list of servers in domain B, it sends
a request to its browse master on S2 and S2 in turn contacts the browse
master of domain B on S3. For the browse master of S2 to contact the
browse master of S3, its IP address has to be listed in its LMHOSTS
file.

Now, if S3 does not have any machines in its subnet that belong to
domain A, then S1 and S2 cannot browse domain B.

4. You cannot browse domains on other subnets where the browse masters
are not listed in the LMHOSTS file.

---------------------------------------------------------------

SUMMARY
=======

This article contains steps to help you troubleshoot network browsing
problems in Windows 95. Browsing problems are usually indicated by
trouble viewing peer servers in Network Neighborhood.

MORE INFORMATION
================

Step 1: Verify the Problem
--------------------------

Verify that you are having a browsing problem, not a problem with
network connectivity. To do so, follow these steps:

1. Click the Start button, point to Find, and then click Computer.

2. In the Named box, type

<Computer_Name>

where <Computer_Name> is the name of the network server you want to
browse.

3. Click Find Now.

If the server is found, its name appears in the Name column and its
workgroup or Windows NT domain appears in the Location column. If the
computer is not found, verify that it is turned on and correctly
connected to the network.

If the server is found and its location is a different workgroup than
your computer's, the server will not appear in Network Neighborhood.
To determine your computer's workgroup, follow these steps:

1. Use the right mouse button to click Network Neighborhood, then click
Properties on the menu that appears.

2. Click the Identification tab.

3. Note the name of the workgroup displayed in the Workgroup box.

Step 2: Verify That the Correct Network Client Is Loaded
--------------------------------------------------------

Verify that the Microsoft Client for Microsoft Networks is installed
on your computer. To do so, follow these steps:

1. Use the right mouse button to click Network Neighborhood, then click
Properties on the menu that appears.

2. On the Configuration tab, examine the list of installed network
components and verify that the following client is installed:

Client For Microsoft Networks

If this client is not installed, you can install it using the following
steps:

1. Click Add.

2. Click Client, and then click Add.

3. Click Microsoft, click Client For Microsoft Networks, and then click
OK.

4. Click OK.

5. When you are prompted to restart your computer, do so.

Step 3: Verify That File and Printer Sharing Is Installed
---------------------------------------------------------

Verify that the File And Printer Sharing For Microsoft Networks
component is installed. To do so, follow these steps:

1. Use the right mouse button to click Network Neighborhood, then click
Properties on the menu that appears.

2. On the Configuration tab, examine the list of installed network
components and verify that the following component is installed:

File And Printer Sharing For Microsoft Networks

If this component is not installed, you can install it using the
following steps:

1. Click the Add button.

2. Click Service, and then click Add.

3. Click Microsoft, click File And Printer Sharing For Microsoft Networks,
and then click OK.

4. On the Configuration tab, click OK.

5. When you are prompted to restart your computer, do so.

After you install this service, allow up to 15 minutes for the server
to appear in the browse list. To refresh the current browse list,
click Refresh on the View menu.

Step 4: Verify That a Common NetBIOS Protocol Is Installed
----------------------------------------------------------

If the server still does not appear in the browse list, verify that a
common NetBIOS protocol is installed on your computer and the server.
The following protocols are NetBIOS compliant:

- NetBEUI
- TCP/IP
- IPX/SPX

Step 5: Check the Master Browse Server
--------------------------------------

Verify that the master browse server is functioning correctly by
typing the following command at an MS-DOS prompt

net view /workgroup:<wkgrp_name>

where <wkgrp_name> is the name of your workgroup. If your workgroup
name contains spaces, enclose the workgroup name in quotation marks.
For example, if your workgroup name is My Workgroup, type the
following line:

net view /workgroup:"My Workgroup"

This command retrieves a browse list from the master browse server.
If you can retrieve a browse list from the master browse server, one
of the following problems may exist on the network:

- A backup browse server is not functioning correctly.

- A backup browse server does not have an updated browse list. Retrieving
an updated browse list can take up to 15 minutes.

NOTE: If a computer is removed from the network before the computer
is logged off the network, it may take up to 51 minutes for that
computer to be removed from the browse list.

Step 6: Verify That the Browse Server Is Available
--------------------------------------------------

If your network includes computers that are frequently powered off or
removed from the network (such as mobile computers), it is a good idea to
disable browse server duties on these computers. To disable browse server
duties on a Windows 95-based computer, follow these steps:

1. Use the right mouse button to click Network Neighborhood, and then
click Properties on the menu that appears.

2. On the Configuration tab, click the File And Printer Sharing For
Microsoft Networks component, and then click Properties.

3. In the Property box, click Browse Master, and then click Disabled in
the Value box.

4. Click OK.

NOTE: At least one computer in each workgroup must have the ability
to become the master browse server. If browse server capability is
disabled on all the computers in a network, browse functionality is
disabled.

ASKER

Hi Joe,

Thanks for a detailed answer.( I have already read these articles from MSKB.) I think we have some misunderstandings here.
First of all I'm not running WFWG but W95 ("...Also, you do need Netbeui installed along with TCP/IP in order for a WFWG PC to browse a network....").

I have tried disabling NetBEUI from the list of allowed protocols in DIAL-UP connection properties, even tried completely removing it from the list of protocols in Network Control Panel, and NO, I DO NOT NEED NetBEUI enabled to browse network neighborhood. I know this is strange, but that's the way it is.. browsing is performed over common NetBIOS protocol (TCP/IP, IPX, NetBEUI are NetBIOS compliant), not NetBEUI!!!

I know that connecting to the other computer doesn't have anything with WINS, it is distributed database for registering and querying dynamic computer name-to-IP address mappings in a routed network environment. So it is not necessary to connect to someone's computer. But it is necessary to browse computer that are on dynamic IP's!

I have found PDC for my workgroup LOCALNET, WINS server \\TED 204.245.163.2 it is also a PDC for that domain. My computer is located in that doamin so it shouldn't be necessary to specify this PDC in my LMHOSTS file, but I did it just to see if there are any changes. No! It doesn't matter wether it is specified or not, I'm not browsing a computers that are out of my domain, I just want to see a computers in my workgroup.

I'll try specifying everything from the beggining again:

1. I'm using my modem to dial-up to my ISP (located in Croatia/Europe)
2. I have specified my ISP's default DNS'es to use for name resolution.
205.219.255.5 & 205.219.255.8)
3. I wan't to share my disks with others, but I need to a way to "tell them" that I'm online, so I used WINS service to connect to anounce my presence on network, and to see others that are on the network.
4. Because I don't have my WINS server I had to use a public WINS server, and I use WINS server \\TED on 204.245.163.2
5. I have set my computer name to VLADY and workgroup to LOCALNET (this is the default workgroup for this WINS server!!! All computers sharing resources connect to this workgroup!)
6. I have already installed MS Network Client, And printer & File sharing for MS networks. I have TCP/IP and NetBEUI protocols installed (and configured).
7. Now as most of us have a dynamic IP's each time we connect to this WORKGROUP browse server has to give me a list of computers connected, their UNC (name) and current IP address. This is the point of WINS servers!! This is why I use WINS and not specify all the computers through LMHOSTS file! Because they're on a dynamic IP's. Now I DON'T need to see any computers or workgroups outside my workgroup (LOCALNET) when browsing the network. When I click network neighborhood than I see a list of other domains but I can't search them because I do not know their browse server, and I DON'T need them!!
(this is an answer to your comment:

"3. When browsing, you cannot see an isolated workgroup or a domain that is on a subnet with no machines in the current domain.

For example: Suppose domain A spans 3 subnets(S1,S2 and S3). PDC for domain A is on S1. S2 has a BDC for domain A. S3 has an NT machine that is a part of domain A. S3 also has a few machines that belong to domain B, the PDC for which is elsewhere.

Now, when the browse master of S3 (NT wksta) sends the list of servers
in its local subnet to the PDC of domain A, it also sends a list of
domains in its subnet that includes domain B. So PDC of domain A has a
list of domains that has domain B listed in it. When browse master of
S2 gets the browse list from PDC, it gets the list of domains as well, and that includes domain B. So it knows the existence of domain B. But for a client (on S2) to get the list of servers in domain B, it sends
a request to its browse master on S2 and S2 in turn contacts the browse
master of domain B on S3. For the browse master of S2 to contact the
browse master of S3, its IP address has to be listed in its LMHOSTS
file.

Now, if S3 does not have any machines in its subnet that belong to domain A, then S1 and S2 cannot browse domain B.

4. You cannot browse domains on other subnets where the browse masters are not listed in the LMHOSTS file. ")

8. Problem is when I browse MY WORKGROUP I DON'T see all of the computers in it, only some.. also I don't see myself.
9. Browse Server on this WORKGROUP is also dynamic. It changes depending on the speed or accessability of current browse server. So it is not always the same. Only PDC has a stable IP address (this is my WINS server (\\TED 204.245.163.2)
I have tried entering a TED (PDC) into LMHOSTS file, but it didn't helped.
10. When I try to find the computer that is not visible when browsing, and I find him, it's WORKGROUP is the same as mine.. So this means that it is not the WORKGROUP identification problem)
11. net view /workgroup:LOCALNET gives me the same result as browsing the network neighborhood... Some computer present some not..

I have again checked all sugested in your answer but everything was set properly (we discussed most of it in the earlier messages).

ONLY thing I don't know how to set up is amount of time the TCP/IP transport must cache client addresses. If you know how to set this up, I might check this out too..
("To guarantee that the PDC can request the local subnet's list from the subnet master browser, the TCP/IP transport must cache client addresses for some amount of time.")

I'll reject this answer for now to invite the others to join, but if setting the amount of time to cache addresses helps out, than the points are yours..

Damir

ASKER

Here's nbtstat -a from one of computers that normally sees everybody
C:\WINDOWS>nbtstat -a crash

NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table

Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
CRASH <00> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <00> GROUP Registered
CRASH <03> UNIQUE Registered
CRASH <20> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <1E> GROUP Registered
LOCALNET <1D> UNIQUE Registered
..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered

MAC Address = 00-A0-24-F2-9D-28

And here's mine nbtstat -a
C:\WINDOWS>nbtstat -a vlady

NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table

Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
VLADY <00> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <00> GROUP Registered
VLADY <03> UNIQUE Registered
VLADY <20> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <1E> GROUP Registered

MAC Address = 44-45-53-54-00-00

They're different.. Look ..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered I don't have it...

Here's PDC's name table:
C:\WINDOWS>nbtstat -a ted

NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table

Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
TED <00> UNIQUE Registered
TED <20> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <00> GROUP Registered
LOCALNET <1C> GROUP Registered
LOCALNET <1B> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <1E> GROUP Registered
TED <03> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <1D> UNIQUE Registered
..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered
INet~Services <1C> GROUP Registered
IS~TED.........<00> UNIQUE Registered
TED <6A> UNIQUE Registered
TED <BE> UNIQUE Registered
TED <6B> UNIQUE Registered
TED <87> UNIQUE Registered
TED <01> UNIQUE Registered

MAC Address = 00-A0-24-54-1F-59

Dear Dpavusin,

I think your problem comes from Network Configuration of your Windows.

1. Prepare Disk Installer of your NIC (if not included on Windows Setup option).

2. Remove setting of your NIC and PROTOCOL on your Network Configuration (Control Panel)

3. Try to reinstall new configuration of your NIC and PROTOCOL
from Control Panel ---> Network
I suggest you to install following protocol :
- IPX/SPX-compatible Protocol
- NetBEUI
- TCP/IP

4. Reboot your computer, and I think your problem will be solve now.

Good Luck !

ASKER

John, please read the previous messages!!!!!!!

I have reinstalled my windows completely few times before, including all protocols, network etc.... You're not reading complete messages, what are you after the points? This is no way!!!

Damir

Damir, The fact of the matter is that Network browsing is not exact,nor accurate. If you want to see an accurate list of available shared resources you should go the the run prompt and type //machine_name. This information is from reading microsoft literature, and information published for a FastTrack program I attended today. You may also try to use NET View \\computername from a command prompt. There are many reasons thaty ou may not find consistant results, or accurate results when using Network Browsing. For one, you do not know who your browse masters are, if your browse master is left up to an election, and the browse master is turned off, it could take up to 50 minutes before any other browse master picks up all broadcasting network resources. To increase the dependablility of your browse master, you should stop your Win95 clients from being browse masters, and force your server to do it all the time, then leave the server up 24x7.

From the book:

To maximize browsing accuracy, ensure that all hosts that support WINS as a client are using WINS. If you have at least one NT Server on each subnet, enable a server as the Master Browser through the registry change shown below. This Server will now win all browse elections, aiding in browser accuracy.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ System\CurrentControlSet\Browser\Parameters
Set MaintainServerList value to YES
Set IsDomainMaster value to TRUE

On subnets that contain multiple NT hosts with Win95 hosts, disable the Windows 95 host's ability to via to win a browser election through Contol Panel-Network applet. Click on File--Print Sharing for Microsoft Networks. Click the properties button, and change the value for Browse Master to Disabled.
You can do the same with WFWG users in the system.ini by setting MaintainServerList=NO

There are many things that can keep your browsing from being accurate, or working at all, but the above information is the most accurate information I could get for you to make it work the best it can.

ASKER

Joe,

I'm aware of all of that, it is only that most of the guys from the same workgroup can browse normally. So I belive that there's nothing wrong with network setup there, there must be something I didn't set up at my home computer.

I simply wish to know what is this.. All the answers are welcome but I cant accept an answer that doesn't help me.I'll accept an answer that enables me to browse network normally (again: this is possible, most of the guys at the same WORKGROUP with same browse server and browse master can browse WORKGROUP normally!!!!)
Have already read this article at RK HELP... thnx,

Damir

On one hand you sound like you know what you are doing, and on the other hand you sound like you don't know what you are doing.

I seup PC's all week long to do just what you are trying to do, so I can assure you there is not a bug in the software. I have every flavor of Win95 going, but most are rev-a or rev-b, none have the same problem you have. I also have WFWG users who can browse very well. You should be able to browse with only one, or all protocols installed, but browsing depends on the state of the browse master, and you say you do not know who that is. The resorce kit for NT has a browser identifier called browsmon.exe which can identify who the Master Browsers, but you say that you don't have it.
You said you know all that I proposed to you in the last message, and the message before that, so you are saying that the server you are dialing into is set to be Master Browser, and there isn't an election going on that's changing who the Master is?
So this is how I see it: You do not have anything wrong that hasn't been seen before, and the problems you have are still with you because you are so sure you know it all that you are overlooking the obvious. Something is not as you think it is, tear it down, and put it back together. There is no more help I can give you. I will watch for the usual, either you will go back over your configuration and find something that was not as you thought, or you will withdraw the question and say that you have given up.

ASKER

I will try removing my network and reinstalling from a scratch. It must be something obvious...

Have you tried connecting to the same WINS server as I do? It would be great to know what are your results. If you have tried setting your computer to use the same WINS can you browse the network normally? Or you use some other WINS server.
I'll also try locating Master Browser for sure.. Have you seen the results I have posted before johnsavior proposed answer? Why do all other computers have "..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered" (look at original post for details) and I don't..
Is this a possible problem?

Thnx,

Damir

P.S. I have not sleep for 48 hrs now, so I'm near to dropping dead, so when I get some sleep I'll try reinstall and post results...

Check out the following utility available from www.download.com:
It is called TweakDUN. It allows you to tweak the settings used by your Dial Up Networking adapter.
See if this helps.

Joel

Set workgroup name= domain name.
Be sure Dial up adapter bound to tcp/ip and netbeui in network propeties panel.
Be sure Dial up connection under server types has tcp/ip and NETBEUI enabled.

ASKER

Jpkira:

READ THE ABOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DO NOT REPEAT WHAT HAS BEEN SAID!!!

Gee --- I didn't see anyone recommend the first item ... you obviouosly know this?

Damir, Many experts read this stuff, and if any could give you better information on how to solve your problem, they would have come forward by now. Should I assume that you were not successful in your last attempt to resolve this?

ASKER

No.... unfortunately after completely reinstalling my windows and Dial-UP I tried connecting to the net with the most basic settings (I entered WINS and DNS and left everything else as it is by default) but I had the same problem.. everything else worked just fine..(I could see some computers again and some not..)

Than installed DUN Upgrade 1.2a, nothing changed.. Now I don't have any ideas left except that my ISP must have something that filters certain type of packets.

Only thing that is left not understand is why all other computers have "..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered" in name type status (look at original post for details) and I don't..

Regards,

Damir

P.S. What should I do now? Should I give the points anyway? Or try to wait for the answer? I think there's a lot of great suggestions and information about general networking and WINS so it would be bad if it is lost if I don't grade someone..

Oh! I didn't realize you were goinf through a ISP, I thought you were connecting directly to your NT server with RAS. Your trouble may be that your ISP is not passing NetBT. As for the partial viewing of other users on your network, I don't know what's going on there. How are you getting through your ISP when you are part of a domain on another network? In fact, I would think you could not browse a remote network through your ISP, so the surprise is that you can do it at all.

ASKER

Actually my ISP shouldn't have anything to do with it.. remember it is a dynamic network handled by a WINS servers.. it is nothing strange, all the other computers using that WINS are also going through ISP..

Do you have any explanation for: ( I think this is very important!!)

"..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered"

I think that If I don't get at least some help I'll try to get my points refund.. cause obviously nobody here can help me..

Damir

Please read the following extract, it tells you what __MSBROWSE__
is. Hopefully the solution to your problem follows it.

__MSBROWSE__
Used by master browser servers to periodically announce
their domain on a local subnet. This announcement contains the domain name and the name of the master
browser server for the domain. In addition, master
browser servers receive these domain announcements to
this name and maintain them in their internal browse list
along with the announcer's computer name.

The full text can be found at:-
http://www.eu.microsoft.com/win32dev/netwrk/browse1.htm

From the full text it appears that you must add File and Printer sharing capabilities to your network configuration like so:-

Goto your network configuration in control panel->networks and add the service File and printer sharing for microsoft networks to be registered.

This should hopefully work.

I hope this helps, good luck

matth

Very impressed ... this answer answers nothing ...

"I think that If I don't get at least some help I'll try to get my points refund..
cause obviously nobody here can help me.. "

Can you get refunds - cuz this guy deserves one?

Microsoft does say that browse is not an accurate way to tell what is on a network. The only accurate way to tell if something is on the network is to connect to it. If you want to see shares on a particular machine, run the machine name from your run prompt, like this \\machinename. This will show all shares available on the machine called machinename.
If you are not part of the workgroup, or domain, you also will not be able to browse.
I verified that I can browse through an ISP, but the browse is not accurate, just as you have found. However, I can browse a machine as I described above, and it does show all shares this way, even on machines I can not browse at all.

To jpkira

The guy asked to know what what the following meant:-

__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered

Which I told him and further more

It says in the page I read that to solve his particular problem he needs to Add the File and printer sharing service to his network config, which I suggested as a possible answer, do you have one better? If so, why dont you give a feasable solution?

matth

ASKER

Thnx Matth this is the answer to the question about "__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered" problem but this doesn't solve my browsing problem.

However, now I have found a new important detail!!!

The only computers I can see when browsing my Network Neighborhood are computers having
"__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered" in the "NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table" (or nbtstat -a name_of_machine command).

Does this mean that I can only see domain (workgroup) browse servers??? Not the other machines.. why?

I hope this is a step closer to the solution.. I already abandoned hope that this will ever be solved, but it seems that there's hope..

Damir

ASKER

To joe massimino:

Joe, you said that you also have problems when browsing the network.. Have you tried the public server I'm accessing or some other?

Also, what is the purpose of WINS if I have to search for the machine to be sure it is on the network and than be able to access it. I repeat.. I had no problems with accessing the shared resources once I have found the machine, only the locating the machine is problem. This is the main purpose why I'm using WINS.. to anounce my presence to the others and to be able to see who is on the network (currently) and who is not - in short, to be able to see a list of currently available shared resources! This is how M$ describes this service too..

I think it is important detail that I can only see the machines having "__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered" in the "NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table" I have few ideas of my own why is this so, but I would like to hear more suggestions and solutions to this problem.

Damir

ASKER

Details:

Try to compare my nbtstat -a and nbtstat -a from one of computers that I can see on the network!

My nbtstat -a:

C:\WINDOWS>nbtstat -a Vlady

NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table

Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
VLADY <00> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <00> GROUP Registered
VLADY <03> UNIQUE Registered
VLADY <20> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <1E> GROUP Registered

MAC Address = 44-45-53-54-00-00

Computer I CAN see when BROWSING the network neighborhood (my workgroup)!

C:\WINDOWS>nbtstat -a Desk1

NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table

Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
DESK1 <00> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <00> GROUP Registered
DESK1 <03> UNIQUE Registered
DESK1 <20> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <1E> GROUP Registered
RAY JONES <03> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <1D> UNIQUE Registered
..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered

MAC Address = 44-45-53-54-00-00

I can see two things different in his nbtstat -a:

1. He has ..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered
2. LOCALNET <1D> UNIQUE Registered

In my nbtstat -a there's no: LOCALNET (which is my Workgroup name) UNIQUE value!!!!

Damir

I browsed the net for some more info on your problem and found the following extract, below is a step-by-step method for solving browsing problems on a workstation on any type of network.

If a user cannot find a particular workgroup, these are activities the network administrator can do to try to resolve the problem on Microsoft networks:

Make sure the workgroup name is spelled correctly.
If the workgroup is on a remote subnet, make sure the workgroup is in a domain.
Wait 15 minutes and try again, so that browse lists can be updated.
Make sure that the workgroup includes at least one Windows networking computer that is configured to be a master browser.
If WINS is not used on the WAN, make sure that the LMHOSTS files for the master browsers include mappings for the names and IP addresses of master browsers on the other subnets.
If WINS is used on the WAN, make sure that the TCP/IP properties include correct settings for the WINS server.

The following provides a step-by-step method for solving browsing problems on a workstation on any type of network.

Step 1: Verify the problem. Verify that you are having a browsing problem, not a problem
with network connectivity. To do so, follow these steps:

1.Click the Start button, point to Find, and then click Computer.
2.In the Named box, type the computer name for the network server you want to
browse.
3.Click Find Now.

If the server is found, its name appears in the Name column and its workgroup or Windows NT
domain appears in the Location column. If the computer is not found, verify that it is turned
on and correctly connected to the network.

If the server is found and its location is a different workgroup than your computer's, the
server will not appear in Network Neighborhood.

To determine your computer's workgroup, follow these steps:

1.Right-click Network Neighborhood, then click Properties on the context menu.
2.Click the Identification tab.
3.Note the name of the workgroup displayed in the Workgroup box.

Step 2: Verify that the correct network client is loaded. Verify that the Microsoft Client
for Microsoft Networks is installed on your computer. To do so, follow these steps:

1.Right-click Network Neighborhood, then click Properties on the context menu.
2.On the Configuration tab, examine the list of installed network components and verify
that Client for Microsoft Networks is installed

If this client is not installed, you can install it using the Network option in Control
Panel. Then shut down and restart the computer.

Alternately, on a NetWare network, ensure that Microsoft Client for NetWare
Networks is installed.

Step 3: Verify that File and Printer Sharing is installed. Verify that the peer resource
sharing component is installed. To do so, follow these steps:

1.Right-click Network Neighborhood, then click Properties on the context menu.
2.On the Configuration tab, examine the list of installed network components and verify
that File And Printer Sharing For Microsoft Networks is installed.

Alternately, on a NetWare network, ensure that File And Printer Sharing For
NetWare Networks is installed.

If this service is not installed, you can install it using the Network option in
Control Panel. Then shut down and restart the computer.

After you install the peer resource sharing service, allow up to 15 minutes for the server to
appear in the browse list. To refresh the current browse list, click Refresh on the View menu.

Step 4: Verify that a common NetBIOS protocol is installed. If the server still does not
appear in the browse list, verify that a common NetBIOS protocol is installed on your
computer and the server. The NetBEUI, Microsoft TCP/IP, and IPX/SPX-compatible protocols
are NetBIOS compliant.

Step 5: Check the master browse server. Verify that the master browse server is
functioning correctly by typing the following command at an MS-DOS Prompt:

net view /workgroup:wkgrp_name

where wkgrp_name is the name of your workgroup. If your workgroup name contains spaces,
enclose the workgroup name in quotation marks. For example, if your workgroup name is My
Workgroup, type the following line:

net view /workgroup:"My Workgroup"

This command retrieves a browse list from the master browse server. If you can retrieve a
browse list from the master browse server, one of the following problems may exist on the
network:

A backup browse server is not functioning correctly.
A backup browse server does not have an updated browse list. Retrieving an updated
browse list can take up to 15 minutes.

Note If a computer is removed from the network before the computer is logged
off the network, it may take up to 45 minutes for that computer to be removed
from the browse list.

Step 6: Verify that the browse server is available. If your network includes computers
that are frequently powered off or removed from the network (such as mobile computers), it
is a good idea to disable master and backup browse server duties on these computers. To
disable browse server duties on a Windows 95-based computer, follow these steps:

1.Right-click Network Neighborhood, and then click Properties on the context menu.
2.On the Configuration tab, double-click the File And Printer Sharing component.
3.In the Property box for File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks, click Browse
Master, and then click Disabled in the Value box.
Alternatively, for File and Printer Sharing for NetWare Networks, click the
Advanced properties tab, click Workgroup Advertising, and then click Disabled in
the Value box.

4.Click OK, and then shut down and restart the computer.

Note At least one computer in each workgroup must have the ability to become
the master browse server. If browse server capability is disabled on all the
computers in a network, browse functionality is disabled.

This following is a collection of tips and other information that was not included in the
Microsoft Windows 95 Resource Kit.

Using named pipes with Windows 95.

No server-side support is provided for named pipes in Windows 95. Client-side support for
named pipes is provided in Windows 95 in each of the following configurations:

Client for Microsoft Networks.
Microsoft Client for NetWare Networks. With this configuration you must load
DOSNP.EXE in WINSTART.BAT, since it needs the IPX/SPX-compatible protocol to be
loaded first.
ODI, using IPXODI, DOSNP, and either the NETX or VLM clients from Novell.

Notice, however, that named-pipes client/server application must work either using DOSNP on
both ends or using Client for Microsoft Networks. This is because the DOSNP implementation
works over IPX/SPX, while the Client for Microsoft Networks implementation works over
NetBIOS.

Brequest can be loaded in WINSTART.BAT, since it needs the IPX/SPX-compatible protocol to
be loaded first. Otherwise, Btrieve Manager (the ISAM engine) can be loaded globally in
AUTOEXEC.BAT. Notice that if your site uses BREQUEST.EXE version 6.15 (the version
provided in the Btrieve for Windows NT product), you can load BREQUEST.EXE from
AUTOEXEC.BAT using brequest /w ( the /w switch indicates request for Windows).

A lot of info, some not relevant but most of it is

I hope this helps you find and fix the problem, meanwhile I will keep looking.

matth

ASKER

Math, thnx for comment but I have already read both the MS Res Kit and details about using name pipes under W95. I'm using MS Networks client with MS TCP/IP which has NetBIOS implemented so it seems that this is not the problem.

I think you should concentrate on my last message. Think there are some pretty important details there!! Why can I see (when browsing) only browse servers?

Also why is my nbtstat -a different from any other computer's on the net:

again:

C:\WINDOWS>nbtstat -a desk1

NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table

Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
DESK1 <00> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <00> GROUP Registered
DESK1 <03> UNIQUE Registered
DESK1 <20> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <1E> GROUP Registered
RAY JONES <03> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <1D> UNIQUE Registered
..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered

MAC Address = 44-45-53-54-00-00

and my nbtstat -a: (my comp's name is vlady!)

C:\WINDOWS>nbtstat -a vlady

NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table

Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
VLADY <00> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <00> GROUP Registered
VLADY <03> UNIQUE Registered
VLADY <20> UNIQUE Registered
LOCALNET <1E> GROUP Registered
DAMIR <03> UNIQUE Registered

MAC Address = 44-45-53-54-00-00

As you can se there are two items more in his NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table:

LOCALNET <1D> UNIQUE Registered
..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered

Why?

Damir

The following extract may be of some relevance hopefully

Notice that for networks that use WINS, a Windows 95 computer running Microsoft TCP/IP can be configured to act as a WINS proxy by specifying EnableProxy=1 in the following Registry key:

Hkey_Local_Machine\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\VxD\MSTCP

use regedit.exe to modify this value

A WINS proxy is a WINS-enabled computer that passes name query packets from non-WINS computers and verifies that name registrations do not duplicate existing entries in the WINS
database. Proxies do not actually register b-node systems in the WINS database. It is recommended that only two computers be configured as WINS proxies in each subnet to help
ensure that non-WINS computers can resolve names by using broadcasts.

BTW eher is an explanation for the following just in case it may help
LOCALNET <1D> UNIQUE Registered

Used to identify a master browser (not a domain master browser). The master browser adds this name as a
unique NetBIOS name when it starts. Workstations
announce their presence to this name so that master
browsers can build their browse list. For peer servers,
this name has the form workgroup\0x1d.

Good luck

matth

ASKER

matth, this doesn't answer my questions..

The registry change you suggest is equal to Browse master=enable, this doesn't help a lot..

About
LOCALNET <1D> UNIQUE Registered
..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered

I can see that it is a workgroup name/ident, but why do these computers have these entries and I do not? I have
LOCALNET <00> GROUP Registered
but I do not have
LOCALNET <1D> UNIQUE Registered

If you look more carefully you'll see three entries with UNIQUE:

LOCALNET <1D> UNIQUE Registered........group name
RAY JONES <03> UNIQUE Registered.........user name
DESK1 <00> UNIQUE Registered....................computer name

I have user name and computer name unique registered but I do not have WORKGROUP NAME REGISTERED why?

Damir

Damir...
This is INDEED a book ready for publishing, my gosh all this??
I read, then I skipped, then read, then I decided to tell you "GOOD LUCK!"
Regards

ASKER

Hi Magigraf, thnx for peeking here, but as you can see, unfortunately the creators of MS windows have decided to make my life miserable.. I was promised dynamic shared resources browsing, and all that on a global network such as internet, BUT it apperas that there is a BUG (SURPRISE!!, something new for the MS, right?!) or simply this is still just an idea not an finished and tested project..

Well if there's anybody that can help me for sure PLEEEEEASE come I have many points I would gladly give you just to resolve this problem..

Does anyone know any other public WINS server I might try? Or you have another suggestion.. Well if nothing else we might print this and earn some money (the most boring book of the month..)

For now I would like to see a good explanation to my last message (nbtstat -a entries..)

Thank you all for your time and effort so far..

Damir

dpavusin...

I guess I will invite Dew_associates to come for the help.
You stand a good chance with him.
Regards

Hi Damir! Thanks for the invitation Mag, but I'm not sure I can be of any service, what a mess. It took be 45 minutes just to read and digest the posts, and at that I'm not sure I completely understand the flow here. Now, we use our own server through the Internet to connect offices here in NJ, to Texas, Georgia, France and Switzerland. Granted, it's not a public server, but the principles are the same. Damir, based upon your last few posts, "Unique" entries, it appears that something has not installed, or installed properly and while difficult in appearance may be rather simple. When you downloaded all of the components to set this up, DUN 1.2 PPTP etc, did you also download the new winsock that the new DUN requires. Just some thoughts! Just for the heck of it, ask one of your associates to provide you with specific setup details on his/her machine and then duplicate it or compare it to yours. I suggest this only because of the lengths of the posts here and I'd rather not reinvent the wheel if you know what I mean. It sounds to me that, in light of the problem and the pressure that goes with it, something simple is being overlooked.
Dennis

I agree.

ASKER

I'm glad to see you both (Dennis and Magigraf) here!

I'll try to explain my problem in short (for Dennis)

1. I use public WINS server \\TED at 204.245.163.2 and workgroup LOCALNET to bind few machines. I set them up according to the rules set by this public WINS server (can be seen at http://www.localnet.org/http/msnet.htm).
2. These machines use Dial-Up to connect to ISP and WINS to announce their presence on the net. Still, all this is in experimental faze (won't go much further as it seems now) and I'm trying to find out would this be a good way for occasional connections. Origional idea was to have a way to connect three or more computers to the net and to exchange shared resources, this connection is more/less unregular, so we usually set the time period in which we'll meet on the net. So far it is not profitable to set own WINS server (not enough traffic yet) so I thought we could use public WINS server for now.
3. Problem: whenever any of us connects to the net we have to search for others computers to find them, they won't appear in the network neighborhood even as the same WORKGROUP is defined to all (LOCALNET). For now it is not the problem, we all use ICQ so it is pretty easy to see when someone's online than find and open his remote shared resources (we use shortcuts to remote computers for now).
BUT I would like to set this up properly so I would be able to see all of these computers when browsing the workgroup. WINS should dynamically refresh the browse master(s) base and correctly show the new computer that is logged in.

BREAKTHROUGH!!
In the last few hours I have tried setting Browse Mater to enabled instead to automatic in control panel/networking/File and Printer Sharing for MS networks and now I CAN SEE my own computer in network neighborhood when browsing, others can see me too (usually 15 minutes after I logged in, but this is normal..) now my NetBIOS name table has these two additional entries - it is same as other computers I CAN see in Network neighborhood. It seems that I can only see browse masters (when browsing network) but not the "usual" workstations!! Why?!

I have another minor problems:

1. when set nbtstat -a my_computer_name it hangs (completely) nbtstat -n works fine, nbtstat -a other_computers works fine too...
2. nbtstat -R (purging the remote cache name table) won't work too...
I get: "Failed to Purged the NBT Remote Cache Table" error message.

Now I hope this clears out some of the problems and hope it leads closer to the solution to this answer.

To Dennis:

I have DUN 1.2a upgrade with new Winsock.. I thought that might be the problem almost at the beggining but...
Dennis, you use WINS too. Do you have any simmilar problems? It would be great to know I'm not alone, that this is a general BUG... now I try to solve the problem but it seems that the problem is virtually impossible to solve...

Thnx.

Damir

Damir, as noted above, we use our own central server to act in this manner and access it via the Internet. We do not have a problem. Early on it was tough coordinating everyone, but once we got 2 working we just duplicated everything on the other machines. It is rather finicky and Public Wins isn't much help either given that there's so little written on the topic in depth. Are there two machines in your group that do not have any problems at all? If so, ask them to send you all of their settings and then double check them against yours.
Dennis

ASKER

Dennis, unfortunately in my group there's not one machine working properly. I could ask other people using this public WINS server for help.

Now I have another problem. I set my computer to behave as a browse master and now I get only my computer and workgroup LOCALNET in network neighbor... I think I'll turn Browse Mater back to auto.. It seems that It can't get a list of other machines from PDC or wherever it gets it from..

Right now I'm sick of MS and their networking.. I'm close to setting samba on LINUX and do the sharing this way..

Dennis, would it be possible that you send me a working config? Of course you can extract IP'S and wgnames (for security reasons).

Damir

I'll check with my associates and see what we can come up for you as a standard setup. If none of the machines are working properly, that adds to the problem.
Dennis

under Properties for File and Print Sharing for Microsoft Networks, set LM Announce to "Yes". It'll probably want you to restart; that should fix the problem. Oh yeah, and undo all the stuff these guys told you to do. I'm surprised it hasn't messed you up in other ways.

ASKER

PLEASE, read the ORIGINAL question (that thing at the beggining!!) you'll see that LM anounce is set to yes from the beggining...
I'm surprised by your altitude. You must have a very high opinion about yourself. You have "solved" my problem in two lines and suggested me to ignore all the previous posts.. from the top experts on experts-exchange.. gosh..

..what would a men do for the points...

Damir

What do you expect Damir from a shotgun answer when the person has no clue what's going on!

Anyway, I've tried to come up to a basic solution for you, and based upon locations, ISP's etc, they are similar but yet different. I don't know what to tell you!
Dennis

ASKER

Dennis, I think this question is too long.. I'll probably email linda and ask her to remove it. Perhaps it would be good to save it somewhere because it has a lot of interesting technical details about WINS, DUN,... well everything.

Thnx for your help I have tried one more fresh installation (I have few HD's so I can experiment) and now I can only conclude that there is about 500 different things that might have effect on this problem. I'll set an experimental WINS server soon and try to se what is going on then. Perhaps it is a problem with WINS server or a slow (modem) link.

Thnx everyone for help!

Damir

My god, a lot of rambling here. Might as well throw my $0.02 into the fray.

WINS does not use Netbeui. Wins stands for windows internet naming service and is used to resolve names to IPs and nothing else.

Remove NetBeui as you are definately not even using it if you're dialing into anything but a NT server. NetBeui is microsoft's "workgroup" protocol. It's designed for peer to peer networks of 10-15 nodes or so. Broadcast, very chatty. Remove it.

Browsing over a dial-up is a very shaky process. Try this, dial in and leave the machine connected for an hour or so. Chances are you'll be able to browse then. MS says browse lists can take 45+ minutes to be complete.

It sounds like you're in a very dynamic environment as well, which only adds to the unreliability of browsing. Also, if there are many workstations to browse, chances of failure increase.

You also want to disable the browsemaster (NO) setting in network properties. Browse master problems with W95 and NT servers are well documented, and any network segment with both NT machines and 95 machines should have ALL 95 machines browsemaster disabled.

What you can do to work around flakey browsing is map the resource directly and it should work. \\servername\sharename is the correct format.

When all is said and done remember MS's networking and TCP/IP is just that -- Microsoft's. Itdoes NOT always work as advertised. It only takes one master browser problem to screw up the entire browse list (thus the removal of 95 machines) so try and get everyone on the same page.

I'm not sure what a "public" WINS server is, but since wins is flakey on a closed network (I've had many headaches due to wins) I can only speculate it's a nightmare on a open network. Also, since the problem seems to be happening all over the network, it's something the engineers need to fix, and proably not something you can tweak. Good luck

Hi Damir: I did some testing last weekend and a few time this week between our office here in New Jersey, our office in Georgia, and in France attempting to connect through Localnet and it failed. When we sitched out to our own server it went up great. Go figure. I think it might be Localnet's bandwith problem.

The machine I am using had a similar problem when first set-up.
A P166 running OSR 2.1 using TCP/IP over a mixed NT 4.0/ Win95
Network. It could see the NT machines, but not the other Win 95's
without a manual search. After installing the Office97 SR-1 patch, The problem went away. It contains a network patch for
a drive mapping bug. Why it works, I can't explain, that's why
I submitted this as a comment, and not an answer. Good Luck.

ASKER

Hm, thnx for some new info, guys I have already lost all hope...

Morel: I have Office SR-1 patch. It didn't help me. And yes, it seems that I can only see NT machines!!! However I had a friend with W95 who is able to connect normally and I can see his machine in network neighborhood. All of the machines I could see were NT. This must mean something (that Windows is buggy and I should stop worrying about this...)

Lmar: I have removed NetBEUI long time ago... I know this protocol is very strange (I prefer: buggy, unfinished, in prebeta state etc..) I have also set browse master to NO, when set to yes I can see my computer in network neighborhood to (with others) but after two/three minutes all other computers dissapear and I can't even connect to them by specifying the direct path.. so I thought it is best to disable it.
I stayed connected few hours (10-12 hrs) but nothing helped, browse list did not refresh..

Dennis, I'm glad you could confirm my problem. I thought It might be connection speed. I tried traceroute, ping, packet transfer at exact time bases so I could have some kind of statistic data... I got rather good transfer - not much lost packages but connection speed is sometimes very poor. I will not try to find solution to this problem anymore. I'll set experimental WINS server in near future and hope to have much better performances than.
Dennis you use WINS in simmilar conditions as we plan to use it and as I could understand you're satisfied?! I heard many bad things about MS networking/WINS but it seems the best solution in this situation. Am I making a big mistake....

Thnx all for help.

Damir

Damir, we use it mainly in the PPTP fashion with our own servers, therefore it's easier. I've played with your idea with the Public servers and have noted terrible bandwith problems and thus the connection problems came with it. I think the problem is tied mainly to the public wins issue!
Dennis

ASKER

Dennis, thnx for your advices.. I have about enough experimental data so now I'm preparing a project to set up my own server. I'm just waiting for approval.

I hope you don't mind if I ask you for help in the future (if I ran into some problems with setting up my server..)

Thnx.

Damir

I'll try ans help you when I can Damir!

Damir,
This is a really interesting problem. I'm afraid I can't help you, but I ask a favour of you. If you do solve this problem, I'd be really keen to know how you solved it and what you tried. I can't look through it all it's far to tedius, I don't know how you put up with it for so many pages. Egad!!! If you have the time please Email me at doddd@matp.newsltd.com.au if you solve it. Sorry I didn't read it all but as you seem to be aware, I'm not the first!

Apologies. I've just noticed you have a policy here about not posting addresses.

Is this post getting long?

:o)

ASKER

Doddd, I see that you have simmilar problems. Now I'm setting own WINS server on NT and should probably run it soon.
I hope to find answeres to many questions because I'll be able to experiment much more.

I'm not sure what will happen with this post (it is really big!!). If this answer is remooved and I finally find an answer I'll post a message to the experts-exchange with the description. I think that is fair. That way this (eventual) answer will be available to everyone.

Regards,

Damir

P.S. Hm... this post would make a fine book... All I have to do is print it out... And there it is.. new bestseller: "How to confuse yourself and others" - manual necessary to every real computer guru...

Try to open Windows Explorer before opening Network Neighborhood.
You MAY found that you are now able to see the computers in NN. I think it is a bug with some NE2000 clone driver.

Hope this help.

ASKER

WK, your answer does not apply. BUT I appreciate your effort..

I HAVE FOUND SOLUTION!!!!

VERY SIMPLE!!

1. I bought cheap NE2000 compatibile net card and installed it (drivers etc..it is a plug & play card so it was very simple!!). I needed it to test some programs ..I did not intent to test WINS at all anymore.. I thought it cannot be solved BUT..
2. Next time I used DUN with the same WINS server I was on the list.. And next time... etc.

It makes sense - only difference between my setup and other (which was able to see/show up in NN) was a network card. I'm NOT CONNECTED to ANY!! kind of LAN! Net card is just installed and will be used in future, but is currently UNUSED! I know this sounds crazy but it is true! AND IT WORKS!!

I'll ask service support to remove this question or if it would be possible to preserve (that would be great!) it because I think it contains many important info about windows networking in general.

Thnx you all for your help!

Damir

Is this question still outstanding? If so I may have the solution.

ASKER

Nope, it is not.. I think I was pretty clear in my previous post..

So use NetBIOS !

ASKER

Aif are you reading my posts or not..The problem is solved!!!! I have found the solution and I'll remove this question soon..I left it here so that people that helped me can see the solution in case they're interested in it..

Damir

Who got the points here?

ASKER

The welk.. I will delete the question and refund the points! Even if I wanted to give points to someone, you would be the last (by your contribution in solving this problem). if points are your main interest in this question (and it seems that they are.. you're trying to get them AFTER I said I FOUND THE SOLUTION MYSEL, FEW TIMES!! I SAID THAT THE QUESTION IS CLOSED!!! What do you want?!!! You won't get the points!!! Take example of Bud, Matt, Jrhelgeson and all the others that gave much, much more contribution to solving my problem and they're not begging for the points.
If you plan to be active expert on this site you'll have to follow their example - and change your attitude.

This is my last comment as I already asked for this Q to be remooved.

Regards,

Damir

ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION

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well you can see yourself, but nobody else can see you.
you have to go to the localnet page where you request to be added to the wins server list. http://www.localnet.org/http/msnet/winsreg.htm
the only reason you see yourself is because you're on your own little network with your card in a workgroup with the same name. No one else sees you because the wins server is not informing them of your presence. Really didn't fix the problem.

it's really that simple.

Unfortunatly localnet has been up and down for a while. don't know whats goin on there

ASKER

Localnet is down temporary but I don't think you're correct about the visibility stuff.. The whole point of WINS is to load and unload machines dynamically - as they connect. I did solve my problem because other people using localnet could see me after net card inserted - I checked this and couple of users confirmed this - just to be sure I removed card out and again I was invisible to myself and others.. of course you must wait for at least 15 minutes before you're added to list and before other can see you.

However, thnx for new info

Regards,

Damir

I really didn't read the whole question (because experts didn't display the whole page right away) so forgive my arrogance.

Maybe windows 9x doesn't treat the dial up adapter like a normal network adaptor.
I've had problems of this sort before (with winserve which has been down for a while www.winserve.com), but I resolved them by tweaking some of the network settings and submitting my name to their wins server. I found localnet about a month ago, and couldn't see myself either.
Recently I found the page (with metacrawler) where you submit your name to localnet, but since it was down I couldn't get to it. So it was almost a shot in the dark, but it worked on winserve. . .

There has to be a way to do it without a network card (unless there's a major bug in the DUN Driver), but i'll probably never find out because i just setup a peer2peer network and now i have a nic in my system so we'll see what happens when localnet goes back up.

BTW if this is a bug in the dial up adaptor driver, they didn't fix it 98.

ASKER

It seems it is a bug in DUN afterall - windows doesn't threat DU adaptor as normal net adaptor. Localnet is working again and I was using it.

Regarding invisibility stuff - you must set LM anounce -> yes if you want to be visible.

WINS seems quite bugy in W95 and 98 too.. too baad, nice idea..

Damir